The Finance Show With Joe

Australia's $3M Super Scandal

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The controversial $3 million superannuation tax has sparked fierce (if not overblown) debate across Australia, with important questions about fairness, implementation challenges, and political accountability taking centre stage.

Targeting roughly 80,000 Australians (0.5% of the population) with super balances exceeding $3 million, this policy increases their tax rate from 15% to 30%. While Michael argues it affects only the wealthy, he admits there are several flaws that shouldn't be ignored. 

First is the issue of taxing unrealised gains. Property investments within super funds could trigger substantial tax bills without generating actual cash flow to cover them. Joe asks, where does this money come from? Must investors liquidate assets or pay from personal accounts? 

Even more troubling is the blatant exemption of federal politicians and defence force members from this tax increase. This "rules for thee, not for me" approach fundamentally undermines the policy's credibility and is something both the guys agree on. 

The absence of indexation represents another serious flaw. Without automatic adjustment for inflation, this threshold will gradually capture more Australians as asset values naturally increase over time. However, Michael argues that the ceiling is still so high that it is unlikely to capture many average Australians while also highlighting the unlikelihood of a future government not adjusting the indexation rate. 

Meanwhile, multinational corporations continue paying minimal tax on Australian resources they later sell back to us at premium prices. The government's willingness to target retirement savings while signing 40-year contracts with companies paying as little as 0.015% of profits in tax raises profound questions about priorities and fairness.

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Speaker 1:

There are some genuine, genuine issues with this policy. How do we make money in Australia if, all of a sudden, we are now being forced to pay this extra tax?

Speaker 2:

The $3 million super tax. There are two big issues that are genuinely a problem. One is that there's no planned indexing, that it relies on governments having actual policy. Two all federal politicians are exempt from this.

Speaker 1:

And three, it's the tax on the unrealized gains. So this is the problem that I have. Government provided this and now everyone in Australia gets punished, but the members of the federal parliament, all those in the army. So it's either hey, go be part of our defense force or get into politics so you can become a part of tax avoidance. With the implementation of a new tax, people can't prepare themselves for this new tax to come in place. How am I supposed to pay that? Do I get a director's penalty notice sent to me by the ATO? A superannuation was created for retirement purposes. Why are we punishing people for preparing for retirement?

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Finance Show with Joe. He's Joe, I'm Michael, and today we're talking about the $3 million super scandal. I'm not going to assume that everyone knows what the hell this is, so let me just run down some facts and figures. Facts and figures time with Michael New segment New segment.

Speaker 2:

My favorite segment, facts and figures. Okay, so the $3 million super tax. So those with $3 million in their super will be taxed 30% on that figure. Now that is up from an already 15% tax. So this will directly impact 0.5% of individuals in Australia. That equates to about 80,000 people. So wealthy families of at least $50 million in net wealth. Of this, 0.5% of individuals in Australia, that equates to about 80,000 people. So wealthy families of at least $50 million in net wealth. Of this, 0.5%, 85% are over the age of 60. Now put things into perspective. The average super balances for men and women between 60 and 64 right now is $402,000 and $318,000 respectively.

Speaker 2:

Now there is some controversy with this One, obviously, because it's a tax. People don't like paying more tax, that's a given. But the big two, in my opinion and I do think this is an issue because, generally speaking, just to get the biases out of the way I generally think this is fine and I think it's being overblown. But there are two big issues that are genuinely problem. One is that there's no planned indexing of this. That could be genuinely problem. One is that there's no planned indexing of this. That could be a problem. It makes the assumption that it relies on a government to make actual policy over the next 10 years, or whatever the hell it is that actually changes it. And two is that all federal politicians are exempt from this.

Speaker 1:

And three, it's the tax on the unrealized gains.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yes, yes, yes, it's on paper gains, right. Yeah yeah, yeah. So those are some actual question marks that need to be talked about, which we'll get into.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I'm just. This is going to be an episode that's heavily geared towards my disdain for this new policy, and it is not because I don't agree with all policies and everything's wrong. There are some genuine issues with this policy, and I'm going to start with the first the tax on the unrealized gains. You are taxing people on profits that haven't eventuated how that tax is administered or how that tax is accounted for. Are you being taxed from your superannuation, as in the money that goes into your superannuation regularly? Is the tax supposed to be paid from that account, or is the tax going to be paid from your personal accounts? I don't know what. I don't know. I'm not an accountant, nor has this policy been released.

Speaker 2:

No, no, this is not law.

Speaker 1:

So, for example, let's say Michael has his superannuation. Michael made a lot of money, okay, and he's got, you know, $4 million in his superannuation. It grew from 3 million to $4 million in one year because he bought some land somewhere that got subdivided and now all of a sudden he's made X amount of cash. Man, that'd be sweet. No continue sorry man, that'd be sweet. No, continue sorry. When a tax bill is sent out, do you have to pay 30% tax from your personal name, or is it coming from the superannuation balance?

Speaker 2:

From what I understand, it's from your self-managed super fund and it's only on every dollar above $3 million.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so between that $3 and $4 million, there's still a million dollars of gain and means 30 tax, that is going to be three hundred thousand dollars yet again. Is it billed to you or is it billed to the super fund? Who is it billed to? So, without clarification of where this money is going to be coming from, like, who is actually responsible for this money? Is it the self-managed super fund itself, or is it Michael Lozano, the guarantor? Whoever it is, there still has to be $300,000 put aside. Now, not every gain is going to be $300,000. Not every single person is going to be responsible for that amount of money.

Speaker 1:

And, yes, I do agree with you, there are levels to this that are overblown, yeah, yeah. However, with our clarification and with an implementation of a new tax, people can't prepare themselves for this new tax to come in place. Yeah, so if, for example, I don't have that excess surplus of cash in my superannuation okay, and that's where the tax is coming from and my super is hit with you know, oh, you now owe us $100,000, $250,000. My superannuation behaves as a fund that you know focuses on asset and producing growth. If it makes a million dollars and now I'm hit with this bill. Okay, how am I supposed to pay that? Do I get a director's penalty notice sent to me by the ATO?

Speaker 2:

I mean with the assumption. I mean, if you've got $3 million in your super account, I'm pretty sure you can afford $300,000.

Speaker 1:

But it's not $3 million in cash, it's the valuation of a property, so it's the value of the super. It's not the actual. It's not the actual cash that's in it, it's not the cash balance. So this is the problem that I have how do we make money in Australia if you know, all of a sudden we are now being forced to pay this extra tax? Now I know it's not a 0% to 30% increase, it's a 15% to 30% increase, so it's an extra 15%. You do have to have that money set aside for tax. But what if in previous years you got your loan based upon the 15% tax rate? Now you are personally and fiscally responsible for the gains that are made in there.

Speaker 1:

Last point before I go into that Okay, so the tax on unrealized gains. Nobody has a crystal ball and nobody knows how much their property is going to be valued the next day. If there are sudden spikes and you are not cash prepared, this can, in essence, fuck you. I'm not going to excuse my French there, but it can because of the director's penalty notices and all the other things that come with tax avoidance. But you're going to see a lot more fraud. Yeah, you're going to see people fudging the numbers and try and decrease their profit margins, or they're going to try and decrease the value of their properties, paper on paper, so that they don't have to pay the tax yeah, so the argument has been that they people.

Speaker 2:

Argument has been that these high net worth individuals, they've already again, like I said, high net worth. They've already got a lot of money, so they've already made their money. So it's not about trying to make money, but they're using super as a way to avoid paying certain amounts of tax.

Speaker 1:

But superannuation was created for retirement purposes. Why are we punishing people for preparing for retirement?

Speaker 2:

I mean you're not punishing people. These people are already loaded. This is not you and I. This is not the average Australian.

Speaker 1:

I know where you're coming from, but this might be someone that decided I'm going to put more money into my superannuation. They had to think strategically. These weren't individuals that were, oh yeah, we're just going to go dump money here. They thought strategically throughout the years and they implemented a system that the government provided. And this is where my issue is, and it comes to point two. The government provided this, and now everyone in Australia gets punished, but the federal constituent, uh, the, the federal constitution, the, the members of the federal uh parliament or those in the army. So it's either hey, uh, go be part of our defense force or get into politics so you can get up, so you can become a part of tax avoidance yeah so if anthony albanese and I am calling out the prime minister thought this was a fair policy To anyone that had previously done this, why is he exempt?

Speaker 1:

Why are all the members of that party exempt? Also, we do have the people of the Liberal government, but why do we have all these individuals now exempt to pay that extra 15% because of a job that they hold?

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, no, but this has been the case with politicians for time immemorial. It's always rules for thee, not for me, and that doesn't literally. It's just how it's always been, which is shit, and we should hold them accountable and we should be mad about that. Like I said, I think this is a nuanced subject, because what I dislike about the conversation around this is there's a lot of stuff in the media complaining it's like this is going to hurt average Australians. It's not. What you can be mad about is what you said. The exemptions, the clarity of where does this bill come from. Those are things to actually be upset about, but to frame it as average Australians are going to be affected by this, I think, is just straight up disingenuous.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to agree with you to a point, and the point is they haven't indexed it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and this goes to like a probability thing, right, because obviously so. Labor won in the landslide recently, so it generally means that they'll probably be empowered. It'll be like a Howard government where we'll go for a bit or whatever. So, let's say, the Liberal Party will come back, make a comeback in late 2020s, early 2030s. At that point, an indexation change will be introduced, very likely. However, it's not guaranteed, is it? That's the thing. If it's not already in law now that it will be indexed, who's to say that it? Well, there's no guarantee that it will be.

Speaker 2:

So again, question marks. It leaves you up to the behest of the government. Will they change this? But even so, like I said, average people have about $400,000 to $300,000 in their super, very clearly not anywhere near the three million dollar threshold that there's been arguments that it's like oh, but with inflation and wage increase? We know for a fact that wages have not increased with inflation, so I think it's very unlikely that people like people saying, oh, gen z is going to suffer from this because they're the ones that are going to cop it later, but it's in. In what world are they going to get $3 million? Even with inflationary measures, inflationary impacts and stagnant wage growth. How are they going to get to the $3 million if they don't already have this money, if they're already a high net worth individual? Basically, what I'm saying is I think this whole thing is overblown. I'm going to rebuttal. Go for it, that's the point.

Speaker 1:

So you are saying that it's overblown? I won't disagree. Okay, it's already 15%, it's going up to 30%. I'm not going to disagree with you, because people already pay taxes from their self-management fund.

Speaker 1:

What I don't like is when Liberal came out with their housing policy, one of their policies were the super thing yeah, we will allow first home buyers to have access to $50,000 from their superannuation. First home buyers $50,000. Remember those two numbers? Okay, To have access to the $50,000 for this graduation to be able to purchase a property. People were up in arms about the fact the liberal government wanted to touch their retirement fund. How dare they try and get people to access their super? Oh, my God, that's a horrible thing to do. That's people's retirement money. So since 2020, and I posted a video about this the other day cash has decreased in value significantly. Inflation yeah, Because of inflation. $50,000 in 2020, if you had $50,000 in the bank account, in today's money, it's worth about $41,000 or something like that. That's because of the rate of inflation. Yeah, yeah, these are just roundabout numbers. These are roundabout numbers, right? Property has increased by 20% or more across the country in that time. I think it's 28% the national average since 2020 to now, including inflation. So liberal were giving people access.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that was the plan.

Speaker 1:

First home buyers this is my issue. First home buyers, the Gen Z, that are complaining about this. Now, they were going to give them access to say hey guys, this is going to be a stepping stone for you to be able to get into the market. Also, superannuation is your money. You should be able to do what you want with it. We are giving you the opportunity to be able to purchase something, because we know there's a restricted supply in housing. Here you go. No, there were people kicking up a storm about oh, we're touching people's retirement funds and everything. Yet again, rules for thee, not for me. So why are we kicking up a storm? Or why are we angry about the fact that we were going to be given an opportunity to purchase our first homes? Yet we're not as angry about individuals who have built their wealth through superannuation, who are planning to retire. We're not getting angry about them losing up to 15% of their income because of this new tax that's implemented. And why are we not holding the government officials accountable?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think the big reason is why people aren't angry is like, say, you're accessing $50,000 for the deposit which, by the way, I'm not I'm not, I wasn't really against this policy, I know you weren't yeah, I think,000 for the deposit which, by the way, I'm not, I'm not, I wasn't really against this policy either, I know you weren't. Yeah, I think the difference is the scale. Right For a younger person, let's say a 30 year old, they've got a hundred thousand in their super. I don't think that's the number, but let's just say, for example, they've got a hundred000 and then they're accessing $50,000. That's a lot more money than someone with $3 million in super taking out $50,000, which obviously they can't do because they've already built their wealth and things like that.

Speaker 2:

It's the perspective of how much it's relative right. People aren't mad that these already millionaires are losing a couple hundred thousand dollars because, relatively speaking, drop in the bucket for them a couple hundred thousand dollars because, relatively speaking, drop in the bucket for them. They are matters when lower uh, lower socioeconomic uh peoples are being forced into to use their retirement funds where fifty thousand dollars will make more of a difference. Again I don't know, with it with inflation and stuff, how much that's going to be worth in time, but regardless it's, it is worth a lot more to these people than someone with $3 million in super and also, I think a lot of it is this with super, again, the $3 million accounts, not the average person is they've already gotten to that point because they've already got a lot of money they wouldn't even necessarily need. Granted, it's probably not liquid money.

Speaker 2:

I understand that. But frankly, if you need money for retirement and you own 20 investment properties, fucking just sell one. Okay, you know what I mean. Like how much more do you need?

Speaker 1:

all great points. They're all great points, um, and you know, raising the taxes there.

Speaker 2:

Okay, that's, that's an avenue, that's an avenue, you can take.

Speaker 1:

Uh, so why did the labor government excuse themselves from the tax?

Speaker 2:

yeah, that's the dodgy part. Yeah, no, and I'm in full agreement with that. I don't like that part either why?

Speaker 1:

why would they come in and say I don't know, but we're excused. Why is you know the? Why is anthony albanese allowed to keep his extra 15? Yeah, because he applied for a job, because he lobbied himself to get into the Labor Party.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's all the politicians as well, because they've all got their investment properties. They've all got really big salaries as well. For what? And a lot of people would make the argument what are they even doing?

Speaker 1:

Exactly. Well, there's that. There's the wage increase that they will receive. I think they will receive the 9% wage increase. There's the fact that they get to fly around the country, private charge whatever they want whenever they park their private jets and such. They get to do all these things People in government actually make Make a shit ton. No, no, no, it's not even. It's not like small like in America. In America in particular, you will see people in government. They're not on high-income producing jobs, but they get their money from the lobbyists. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Here in Australia we have stricter lobbying rules. We still have it though, of course, hence the gambling.

Speaker 1:

But they comp everything. They literally comp everything onto the government. So their salary is their salary, but their travel costs everything. No, that's a government expense. I have to drive to Canberra. No, that's going to cost me $200. You owe me $200 for that. One more item. So they're so worried about you. Know, we've got to raise taxes in certain parts. We've got to make sure people have more money. Yeah, they just signed a 40 year. They signed it up until 2070.

Speaker 1:

They signed a 40 year uh gas contract with woodside gas a new one where this company paid 0.015 percent of their profit in taxes. Oh yeah, punters, politics gonna love the fact that I'm talking about this. One of the pages on Instagram, right, he actually brought a lot of attention to Ashaya's national resources being exported and then resold to us.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah, gas is the prime example, gas is the prime example.

Speaker 1:

So they signed a contract. It was a new contract for a new gas pipeline, for a new gas pipeline, so an external market could pay less tax for our resources. I understand, I understand global economics. I understand that there are some dangerous people in this world that will do some dangerous things to make sure that they can acquire, um, natural resources like this, and there's episodes of suits, there's episodes of billions. These people aren't caricatures. These people exist okay. Yeah, um, the world is pretty effed up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm looking at a nice place generally but why are we so willing to punish australian people and sign these new contracts at the same time to these multinational corporations?

Speaker 2:

that won't pay us yeah, no, I agree, I agree entirely. I agree entirely. I think, I think, cause you know a lot of the a lot of the argument is um, you know, budget repair, paying for things like Medicare and all those kinds of things, which is all true, they will, the money will go towards that, but yeah, like you said, a really easy way to get that money would be to actually tax corporate, multinational corporations effectively. I agree completely. And, yeah, neither, neither, neither center party um liberal or labor are willing to touch that. Yep, and that's, that's a damn shame there's probably some.

Speaker 1:

There's probably some uh things that are occurring within you know, the on a federal level that you and I will never get visibility of or transparency of.

Speaker 2:

What was that? It was like John Barillaro and Gladys as soon as their political careers were over, all of a sudden they've got jobs at these big multinational corporations. Why, yeah, it's lobbying, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So it might not even be lobbying. It might be external security threats or something.

Speaker 2:

Whatever the case is they have a relationship with these large companies. It should go straight in. Oh, I finished my mostly successful political careers. Granted, both ended in scandal, but regardless, they got jobs.

Speaker 1:

Well-paying jobs, correct, and now they're allowed to. But, mind you, they still get the government pension, which has increased in value too?

Speaker 2:

Do they really? Yes, I suppose they would, because you're not on politics for your whole life.

Speaker 1:

So they get the government pension, they get the tax benefits as well, and then we also disregard the fact that a lot of our money went to these multinational corporations. This is what I hate. This is what I hate. You have optional choices for who you're protecting in Australia. Oh no, you know what? We're not going to protect the people that have done their hardest to build their money through property in Australia. We're not going to touch them. Sorry, we're going to go after them, but we're not going to go after these MNCs. Oh so you hear the Greens all the time and, yes, they are very hypocritical in a lot of the stuff that they say, and I don't think they have a single economic policy that wasn't written in crayon.

Speaker 2:

God it was funny watching them get smashed in the last election. God it was funny.

Speaker 1:

It was great.

Speaker 2:

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to let him sit sorry, like when because adam bann losing his melbourne seat fucking hilarious. I don't the arrogance that they were like, yeah, we're gonna do so great in this election, we're gonna do this, that and the other and just to get fucking the floor wiped with them like hilarious anyway, they didn't get a single seat.

Speaker 1:

You hear this. You hear people advocating you. You want to see them? Oh no, it should be a fairer country. It should be a fairer economy. This is how you make it fairer, and we're going to finish off the episode with this yeah, fix the fucking inefficiencies in local councils. Okay, make it fairer that way, because then it won't be driving prices up so high.

Speaker 2:

Supply building approvals will actually just go through.

Speaker 1:

And, mind you, there is an inquiry. There is an inquiry happening right now, a Senate inquiry, as to why four councils in Australia have extreme delays in approving new dwellings. So that's the first one. Okay, not in Australia, in local councils around here, I think it's the Sydney, uh, sydney, cbd, whatever it is. They're doing an inquiry right now as we speak. Number two, if you are going to, am I on number three.

Speaker 2:

I think you're at number three.

Speaker 1:

Is he on number three? No, I'm on number two.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, okay, sorry, inefficiencies.

Speaker 1:

Number two if you're going to keep migration up this high, bring in individuals for skills that we don't have. Advertise for fucking Sparky somewhere in the world. Yeah, why is my electrician? Why is the electrician down the road making $500,000 a year? Okay, and they're doing it through TAFE. Don't get me wrong, I love my electricians, but the lawyers in town are earning a quarter of that. Why, why is that possible? And then you sorry, I'm on my fucking government rant right now and I'm so fucking pissed off about this.

Speaker 1:

Okay, here's a perfect example. You're a female? Okay, you are going to go into a female dominated industry. Just a statistic show. You've got hr as a as a as an industry. Okay, hr is dominated 78 by females. Okay, just just, these are statistics. You want to fucking cancel? Go fuck yourselves. All right, these are statistics In Sydney and Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Okay, in Sydney and Melbourne, to get into the HR industry, you need a complete four years of uni plus an extra couple sets of qualifications. Right, there's a chance you might need a second major in psychology, just so you can understand the human behavior. Whatever it is, entry-level jobs are around $80,000. So you've got a $60,000 hex debt. Okay, you can't afford property in Sydney or Melbourne Perfect, you can't afford property there. And then you have people online saying just fucking move regional in Sydney and Melbourne, there's no work there. No, no, no, wait, sydney and Melbourne. There was 2,000 job openings in HR or you know, allied, not allied industries, similar roles, okay, some sort of HR role. Yeah, 2,000 job openings in the year. Yeah, in Gosford, in Bathurst and Mildura there were seven.

Speaker 2:

So out of the 2,000 jobs, seven were in the regional.

Speaker 1:

No, no, no, no 2,000 was Sydney and Melbourne, yeah, in the regional house. No, no, no. 2,000 was Sydney and Melbourne, yeah, in the regional CBDs. That was seven. So you might be able to afford on your $80,000 a year salary to move to Mildura, but you won't be able to find the job.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's the big issue, isn't it? That's been the issue for the whole time.

Speaker 1:

But electricians will be able to make the same amount of money. Yeah, so if people want to get up in arms or something, this is what you can get up in arms about because, yes, you might be able to go move regional and you might be able to afford a property there, but you might not be able to find work. Yeah, and we are heavily skewing. We are heavily skewing the dependence on trades and we're not bringing them in, we're not investing in it. We're telling people go to university, build up your HECS debt For what? So you could pray. The government gives you a 20% off, so you could pray for that.

Speaker 2:

Look, we've had this issue for a while now. Where it comes to skilled labor is what we're talking about. We have a lack of it and TAFE is free, at least in New South Wales. I'm sure it's free in australia, but I know it is free in new south wales and that's not really driving people to go towards. It's not really the cost of schooling that's stopping people from joining the trades. So what is it? Because we also know, like I have plenty of a lot of my mates are tradies and they make. They make great money. I all I mean fuck everyone I know who's a tradie makes great money, especially if they're in their own business, of course. Yep. So how do we make these jobs more attractive? And like I don't have an answer maybe, maybe tafe needs a, and then you know, rebrand, uh, need some marketing no, hit us up.

Speaker 1:

Uh, I just think to myself that we as a country, if we're going to bring in skilled migrants, bring in the skills that we actually need. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, but that's something we have a huge demand for Fewer engineers and IT peoples. Last point Stop punishing the everyday Australian for rules that you created okay, for rules that you created and letting multinational corporations gouge our natural resources and then sell it back to us for high amounts of money. I said it earlier $50,000 in 2020 is the equivalent of $41,000.

Speaker 2:

Just roundabout.

Speaker 1:

Roundabout numbers. That is huge and it doesn't include that's just how much money is. It doesn't include everything around it. It doesn't include housing, going like. There's so many things that are involved. So please, for the love of God, don't tax Australians more and then give handouts to multinational corporations owned by private equity firms in America because they gave you some money for your campaign.

Speaker 2:

Basically, what we're saying is Don't lie to us. Tax the multinationals.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, tax the multinationals fairly, it's just simple as that.

Speaker 1:

Last point if you're going to introduce a new tax, don't leave yourself exempt from it. Take some fucking accountability for yourself. Take some fucking accountability and say, hey, guess what, I'm implementing this new tax, I'm taxing myself. Don't sit there and sugarcoat it and say, oh no, we're Australianralian federal government. We have the same um, you know qualifications as australian defense force. No, you don't you. I saw a video the other day. The guy copies speeches from michael bay for fucking wall street or whatever that movie was called. I can't remember his bloody name.

Speaker 2:

Um, oh, michael sheen, uh, no, michael douglas michael douglas.

Speaker 1:

there is a full video of word for word. Oh, the greed is good speech. Albo copies his speech word for word and that guy is getting 15% more in his super than you will indexed in 30 years. Why? Because he's in power.

Speaker 2:

Basically, hold politicians accountable and be angry about it, and don't draw political lines where your biases lie either, because they're not exempt you know what that was? A really good summary, that's what I'm here for, yeah, I think he just saved my ass a little bit, didn't he and if you're interested in investing in your suit and with that we shall leave you.

Speaker 1:

Obviously, this was a heated episode for me and I am passionate about giving individuals the opportunity to better themselves. I never like it when there is obvious favoritism or corruption shown by people in power just or just just general inequality yeah it is because we make rules, we get to do it's.

Speaker 1:

it is not fair and I cannot wait to see what is actually proposed in this bill and how they're going to implement it because, I highlighted it earlier, you are going to have people who have money in their super fund, who invested strategically, thought, intelligently, trusted advisors, that might be hit with a you know, new tax bill of 150 grand 200 grand that they have to pay right now. Anyways, thank you all for listening, sorry for yelling, and catch us on the next episode of the Finance Show with Jeff. Um, sorry feeling and uh, catch us on the next episode of the finance show.

People on this episode

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Joseph Daoud

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Michael Lozina

Co-host