S2 | EP3: Chocolate Meets Vanilla

How one interracial couple is raising their biracial children with love, humor, and intention.

Special Guests: Kyle and Ja'Ney Meeks-Hay

Sponsor:  

Lorraine's Cafe @lorraines.cafe on IG // 10% DISCOUNT PROMO CODE: STUber

Transcript

Teaser

Speaker 1 0:01

Or when we were at a restaurant in Castro Valley .

Speaker 2 0:04

Oh , yeah , yeah and .

Speaker 1 0:05

Kaylee was a baby then and again her eyes were super blue and she was just a bright , bubbly baby with hair just like Kyle she doesn't have . Her hair is very straight and wavy . It doesn't have a kink or anything to it . And so this three group of older white ladies came up to Kyle and Kyle was just holding her . Nothing wrong with that . He's holding Kayleen . I'm pushing the stroller . I got the baby back , so to them I probably look like I was the maid or the nanny . I mean , it's Casual Valley , it's a prominent neighborhood , small neighborhood in the Bay Area , and so they're just doting all over her and congratulating him . And oh , he's such a good father . And I'm standing here like is anybody gonna acknowledge the fact that I look like I just birthed her , like I'm a balloon , like I'm not . I just had her alien , had to be maybe three months or something like that , and I just stood there feeling helpless , like I was just like . Well , is this what I'm gonna have to deal with ?

Speaker 2 1:04

for the rest of my life , because , because my baby looks white and looks nothing like I'm her mother .

Introducing Kyle and Ja'Ney

Speaker 3 1:10

This is the Stuber podcast , and so we appreciate you for stopping by , and we actually do have a hot topic in my opinion . Actually , it's a topic that I think we've kind of not delved into it enough as a society , and so we're talking about how to parent biracial kids , and to join me are parents of two biracial kids , and they actually have a front row seat to the good , the bad and the ugly of raising kids in this unique space . So let's get into it . Kyle Junaid , welcome to the show . How's it going ?

Speaker 1 1:51

Thank you , Stu Good .

Speaker 3 1:52

Doing good man . How you doing , man ? I am so happy you guys are ready to get into this topic and you said this is one that you gravitated towards . Why is that ?

Speaker 1 2:06

Well , I mean Kyle , and I know firsthand about what it's like to be a biracial couple and having biracial children , and even though I'm on the chocolate side of the Black race and Kyle is white , our children look more like him than me . In the beginning , I thought that the children would have a fair mix of both of us , and so when they got here especially Kayleen when she was born , she had still blue eyes .

Speaker 1 2:32

She was really light and I asked the nurse . I was like , did you switch my baby ? Like who baby is this ? And then , if it wasn't for her still being attached to me , I would be like this is not my child , because I'm like , what did I

Perceptions Around Racial Identity

Speaker 1 2:45

create ? Like , did I have any part of this ? And I definitely was not prepared for how society would view me as her mother .

Speaker 3 2:53

Oh , should we go there right at this point in time ? I mean , we're here , we've arrived , so talk to us about that ?

Speaker 1 3:00

What do you mean when Kaylee was a baby ? She was light and her eyes were blue . What do you mean when Kaylee was a baby ? She was light and her eyes were blue . And obviously I'm chocolate , with dark eyes and very prominent fuller features and people would say , oh , she's so pretty . Oh , they would ask me outright am I her babysitter ?

Speaker 3 3:18

And what is your typical response ? Do you catch feelings ? Do you get an attitude ?

Speaker 1 3:27

Yes response do you ? You catch feelings , you get an attitude . Yes , okay . So in the beginning I felt , uh , disrespected because I'm like , regardless , let's say I didn't birth kaylee , what if I adopted her ? Regardless of the situation , I'm her mother or I am her guardian at that time , and it's not up for anybody else to ask or discuss what my relationship is with anybody that I'm with . But people felt so bold to ask that . And or , if I was with Kyle , then they would just look and exclusively talk to Kyle and say , oh , she's so pretty , oh , she looks like you , oh your daughter's so pretty but would dismiss me completely , as if I'm the nanny or like I had no part in any of it ?

Speaker 3 4:03

And , kyle , is this your first time hearing of this , or are you aware that this is kind of what she's had to experience ?

Speaker 2 4:11

No , we've talked about it at length . Yeah , multiple times .

Speaker 3 4:16

The light skin treatment Does she ? Is she aware of that , or do you guys make her aware of that ?

Speaker 2 4:22

Well , I think it just . It's not necessarily that , but understanding that there's two sides , right , because the thing about Kaylee is she's very bold with her mouth as well and because of that she tends to say things with

Understanding Biracial Identity

Speaker 2 4:38

an ignorant mind , just because of her age and lack of experience to where she will make comments about like oh you know , I'm white and we have the reminders like , you are white , but you're also half black , right ?

Speaker 3 4:51

Well , let's put that in context . What do you ? When would , when would she need to say , assert her , her whiteness ? Is it around other people or just with you guys how far it's only been around us , that we know that idea , yeah that we know of , we will say I'm white , to the point of like saying I'm white , nothing else I've asked her for clarification what she means by that .

Speaker 1 5:10

And she says well , on the outside I'm white , but nothing else . I've asked her for clarification what she means by that . And she says well , on the outside I'm white , but inside I'm black because I look like my dad . So to her it's purely what I look like , and she'd be like yo mom , you're black . In colloquial he's white like me . So that's how she's thinking about it .

Speaker 3 5:28

So in that sense that's a pretty innocent statement . Yes , I think so . Yeah , it's not loaded with .

Speaker 2 5:35

No but she's aware of it , though , which is crazy .

Speaker 1 5:37

Yeah .

Speaker 2 5:38

Right and like it's not . Like because we don't openly say that , you know what I mean Like we are like oh , I'm white , you're black . We don't talk like that . But for her to be , for her to see it and recognize it is pretty crazy .

Speaker 3 5:52

It's concerning a little bit , because I don't think I started categorizing myself until probably actually middle school is where I felt like I needed to get into a category . But now , but she's already having an identity . Is it a crisis or what ? I don't know . What is it ? I don't know ?

Speaker 2 6:09

Realization maybe A realization .

Speaker 1 6:11

Yeah , because in our house , the one thing that Carl and I have always agreed on is that we are not going to say either way , this is a black house or a white house or any of that . We are a blended family , we are all God's children and that's how we raise our children . We don't , we don't tolerate any of that . We don't allow that kind of talk in our house from loved ones , from friends , from any of that . We don't do that because the world is going to see her differently anyway . We want to prepare her and we want her to be a strong her and Kolojaro to be a strong individual and to say no , I'm not just Black . No , I'm not just white . I am mixed . I am Black and I'm white and I'm proud to be both and you're not going to categorize me as such .

Speaker 3 6:55

This is who I am Mm-hmm , so are there certain steps that you do , or that you would advise parents to do , to ensure that they are proud of both heritages ?

Approaching Racial Conversations with Children

Speaker 2 7:08

I mean , I know for sure that I've never had that conversation about like the N-word for and , like the whole , what it means in the backstory and the history of it all .

Speaker 3 7:33

I don't know if you have her Kyle .

Speaker 1 7:35

she was like dad what is the N word ? And he was like well , you're on the phone with your grandfather , my dad . Why don't you ask your grandfather ? And then my dad was like well , where did you get that from ? So ?

Speaker 3 7:46

are you waiting to let her know about that history ? No , oh , okay .

Speaker 1 7:51

Not at all . So we feel like in our house everything has a time and a place and a purpose , and as things come up , then we will address it . We're not going to overload her or any of the children with information that they're not ready to receive right now . However , we do slip little nuggets of knowledge to them , but it's not going to be overwhelming , because I don't want her to be confused . When she was a little girl , she came up to us and was like well , what am I ? And so we were like oh , here we go . She probably just came out of pull-ups , and so we're like okay , here we go . And so Kyle explained to her I'm white and your mom is black , so that means you're black and white . And she goes how old is this she ?

Speaker 2 8:32

was probably like three . Yeah , it came from being around the family Nae's family , a very large family , there's anywhere between 75 to 100 family members at like a big party right , and there's a lot of kids her age right . There's probably about , I would say , about 10 of them at this point , right Roughly around her age , and none of them look like her . And so I think she recognized early on , like , just looking around , like damn , everybody does not look like me at all . Why don't I look like them ? Yeah , you know , like what's going on there , it was just like all right , we knew it was coming at some point . Like you know , eventually we're going to have these conversations and you know , so far , smooth sailing .

Speaker 3 9:13

I'm glad you said that it's smooth sailing because she's able to navigate these waters very well . Do you anticipate that changing , that she is going to have to categorize herself at some point ?

Speaker 2 9:25

I think , as long as we continue to try to build as strong a foundation as possible , no matter how much she wavers , she'll still stand upright , has she ?

Speaker 3 9:32

experienced hate at all .

Speaker 1 9:36

Yeah , she has what .

Speaker 2 9:37

Well , I mean , it's just like normal stuff at school .

Speaker 1 9:39

I need to know what happened because my blood pressure rise . Yeah , right .

Speaker 2 9:43

No , nothing like different than like some schoolyard stuff , right ?

Speaker 3 9:46

Schoolyard stuff . That's what I'm talking about . Yeah , Like what .

Speaker 2 9:48

No , to my knowledge , nothing racial . It was just like , hey , I don't want to play with you anymore . Like she was specifically told that and as a parent you know I got secondhand hurt from that .

Speaker 2 10:01

Like you don't tell my daughter you don't want to play with her . No more , right . Daughter's hella , cool , right . So obviously something happened where maybe she was being too aggressive emotionally , or whatever the case might be , and the other girls in their group were like we're cool

Navigating Racial Challenges

Speaker 2 10:15

off , kayleanne . Right now I don't know but to my knowledge it wasn't a racial thing .

Speaker 1 10:20

When she was in Montessori school . Kayleanne was four and I came to pick her up and this little white boy was there at the gate and so I'm signing Kayleanne out . And Kayleanne was like oh mommy . So she sees me and runs to the gate . They can't open up the gate until the teacher says so . So the little white boy goes to kaylee and says that's not your mom . So kaylee ann starts arguing with him , like yes , that is , that is my mom . So they're going back and forth and the teacher was like I don't know , I can't remember his name . Let's just go with johnny , because that's a common name to say right , when you don't know somebody's name . So it's like johnny , that is kaylee's mom . She's like no , it's , look at her . They don't look nothing alike . And Kayla's like that's my mom . So Kaylee got really defensive . I kind of chuckled . I said I am her mother . I was like let's go , kaylee , um .

Speaker 2 11:09

I echo .

Speaker 2 11:10

The last thing you said , ney , was my expectation is she's going to get into discussions and or arguments based on the way she looks versus the way she acts , because I don't think the two are going to match at times , because she does have a level of sass that is stereotypically associated with being black , a black female , for example , because , again , nay is her mom she has what she calls older sisters , which are basically family of ours at this point , who are both 19 and 20 years old , and so she mimics them a lot .

Speaker 2 11:43

They're both young black girls and so everything they do she wants to do so . Yes , although she is fair-skinned , green-eyed , with dark , wavy hair , she does have black mannerisms stereotypically . And , with that being said , you're going to get people that are going to want to challenge her on that because , as I got in the past , you're not white enough . For example , like , what are you doing Right Now ? I didn't have the argument to lean back on . Well , I am half black , right , I feel like her argument's a little bit easier , easier road , but I feel like I got it so minimally compared to where she might eventually get it . She might get it a lot more often .

Speaker 3 12:20

I don't know if it's swept under the rug , but it's almost assumed that they'll be okay

Nurture and Support Around Future Racial Identity Challenges

Speaker 3 12:26

. They've got the best of both worlds , but it's not always the case . As we're hearing , there are internal struggles that need to be nurtured in a positive way so that kids who are growing up biracial are felt as if they're supported in this world too , because not everything is always black and white . Thanks for listening . If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast , please share it with others , post about it on social media or leave a rating and review . To catch all the latest from me , you can follow me on Instagram at Stuber underscore podcast . Thanks again and until next time . Keep your head up and eyes on the road .