When older New Yorkers need some help walking their dog, scooping their cat's litter box, or feeding their pets, they are not going to have to face those challenges alone, thanks to PAWS NY. Rachel Herman is the founder of Pets Are Wonderful Support, also known as PAWS New York — and Carrie Nydick Finch is the Deputy Director of Programs and Strategy. Learn more about the incredible work PAWS NY is doing to support the human-animal bond in this heartwarming episode.
Find Human Animal Support Services Online:
When older New Yorkers need some help walking their dog, scooping their cat's litter box, or feeding their pets, they are not going to have to face those challenges alone, thanks to PAWS NY. Rachel Herman is the founder of Pets Are Wonderful Support, also known as PAWS New York — and Carrie Nydick Finch is the Deputy Director of Programs and Strategy. Learn more about the incredible work PAWS NY is doing to support the human-animal bond in this heartwarming episode.
Find Human Animal Support Services Online:
Hello people welcome to another episode of People, Pets, and Purpose. I'm Diaz Dixon, the Maddie's Advisor for External Affairs and Partnerships for the Human Animal Support Service Project. Today, I'm super excited to be speaking with two people that are going to blow your mind when you sit down and listen, particularly for this particular organization that helps people when they get older. When older New Yorkers need some help walking their dogs or scooping the cat's litter box, or feeding their pets - they're gonna have to face those challenges at home. And oftentimes, they have to do that at home alone. These guys are superheroes ready to help those individuals in need. Rachel Herman is the founder of Pets Are Wonderful Support New York, oftentimes called PAWS New York, and Carrie Nydick Finch is the Deputy Director of Programs and Strategy. I am really thrilled to welcome both of you guys to PPP, this podcast about the human-animal bond and what really matters. And what you guys are doing really matters. Welcome.
Carrie Nydick Finch:Thank you.
Rachel Herman:Yeah, we're excited to be here.
Diaz Dixon:Well, I'm definitely excited to have you. I've got some questions. I'm gonna spit ball and throw at you. You know, when we have two guests, I always like to make sure that the listeners are getting the bang for their buck. I'm going to start with you, Rachel, because as I understand it, you were in graduate school when you found it Pets Are Wonderful Support New York. Is that...is that true?
Rachel Herman:Yes. That is true. I was in school, getting my Master's in Public Administration. I love animals, and I would often see a young unhoused couple sitting outside of a local grocery store with their pet, and realized that, you know, it was very likely that they were giving up a warm bed at night and maybe making other personal sacrifices because of their strong love and bond with their pet. And, you know, I wanted to do something about it. I was heartbroken. I wanted to donate change, donate pet food. But really, I wanted to figure out a way to make a longer term impact. And I started to think about, you know, other New Yorkers who have pets, love them, benefit greatly from the relationships, but may be struggling on a day to day basis to provide them basic care, and immediately thought about older adults and how, as somebody ages that, you know, providing for basic pet care may become more and more challenging. And the idea that somebody may have to give up their pet because they're struggling is something that, you know, I wanted to try and eliminate, right? Our pets are family and they are so beneficial to our health. And, you know, I created this organization because I wanted to really help preserve these often life saving relationships. So I was in grad school, it was very much a passion project for, you know, three or four years - I graduated, I then got a full time job because I needed a job to live in New York City, right? And so nights, weekends, lunch break, you know, starting the organization, building it up until I was able to transition full time to PAWS in January 2012.
Diaz Dixon:Very cool. And you were inspired by a particular couple you saw in the cold? Yeah, they were...I would see them often. I didn't know them well, but it was just - like as an animal lover, right? And knowing how much pets mean to us, it really got me thinking about, again, the sacrifices that we can make for our animals and how, you know, at the time, especially homeless shelters don't allow pets. So where were they giving up a warm bed? What sacrifices were they making for that animal? And so that's really what led me to start looking into whether or not there were resources and organizations in New York City that were providing support for pet guardians who were facing obstacles. That's awesome. It just goes to show what kind of heart you have when your heart is touched and what you have been able to turn it into. That's amazing. Okay, I'm gonna throw one at you(Carrie), one a little bit in the detail. I know that you are really diving in with the program and strategy - what types of services and support do you guys actually provide? And who specifically? How do you pick who you're going to provide these services for?
Carrie Nydick Finch:Sure, so we have some basic client eligibility guidelines. For the most part, we always say that we would like to help everyone that ever calls us and needs our help. However, we are a nonprofit, and we're still growing. So we had to, we had to focus a bit on who we're going to assist. And from the beginning, Rachel, and you know, when she first started it, and I joined in 2013 as the first staff member - we've always focused on what we consider the most underresourced New Yorkers. So that's folks who have a lower income, so we have an income cap for our clients. And it's people who are facing a physical or mental disability that is interfering with their ability to care for their pets themselves. So that plus being in New York City resident is our basic eligibility. And then in terms of programming, our sort of bread and butter, what we first started with and what is still our, our main program is called the Housecall Program. And that's when we send our our volunteers, who are trained and vetted, to the client's home, and they provide physical pet care. So they do that dog walk, they scoop the litter box, they give medication, they feed sometimes, the light grooming. All of that stuff that's ongoing, chronically challenging tasks for our clients, our volunteers commit to visiting them regularly and providing those services. And our volunteers are amazing. And then, on top of that, for folks in our Housecall program, we always talk about quantity over quality. So we maybe don't have that many clients in the house call program, but we want to provide holistic support for them, so that, if they're getting assistance with dog walking, and they're also lower income, they're probably struggling with pet food as well, or vet care, which the costs of vet care just continued to skyrocket. So we try to provide as much assistance in those areas as well, so that we're really giving the client everything they need, because our main goal is to keep that family together. We don't want them to have to separate. And then, we have emergency fostering. Our emergency foster program always provided emergency foster for our house call clients if they have an unexpected medical emergency, we always took responsibility for caring for their pet until they're able to be reunited. And that over the years has been astonishing to see how relieved folks are about that opportunity, because the vast majority of our clients are really isolated, and they don't have friends or family that they can just give their pet to. So that is the Genesis. And then, probably at this point, about seven years ago, we started offering emergency fostering to people in the hospital. People who were hospitalized for a medical emergency that we didn't already know. So just anyone can call social workers call from the hospital, "So and so just told me they have a dog at home and they have to be admitted." Or people often actually show up to the emergency department with their pet, so we work with that as well. And then finally, just recently, we launched an extension of the Emergency Foster Program to include not just folks who are going into a hospital for medical emergencies, but also folks who are entering inpatient treatment for substance use. So we're expanding that program to include this new demographic.
Diaz Dixon:Wow. Every time that you're talking there, Carrie, I'm just like, "Okay, that's great. Okay, that's great". Now that, that's phenomenal. And then when you get to the substance use piece, at the very end, I have a huge love in my heart for people who are battling those issues. So oftentimes, people won't engage and go into a program, because they don't have a safe place to keep their pets - so they won't go into a treatment program or domestic violence shelter because of their pets. So that's phenomenal. You're doing that! And you're reaching out to so many people. About how many people and pets are you working with every year at this point?
Rachel Herman:So for all of our programs, last year, we assisted about 250 people and their 350 Pets - that's across all of our programs, so Housecall, Foster, Referral Network, Pet Pantry and Veterinary Care Program. We're expecting to see what I think will be a pretty big jump this year as well. Our Housecall Program recently within the last month has started to grow. We had a slower period earlier in the year - we're starting to see more intakes coming in now. So we're really excited about that, to be able to really enhance and expand our impact over the coming year.
Diaz Dixon:That's great. So you're continuing to grow Have you grown significantly since you started? Like, what did those numbers look like at the beginning?
Rachel Herman:At the beginning? Yeah, that it's definitely grown since the beginning. In the very early days, when it was still sort of my passion project and not a full time job - you know, I had a full time job - I was training volunteers at nights and doing client intakes at night. So it was really small, obviously, like, I could only manage a small handful of people and make sure they were getting assistance. So over the years, we are doing almost 400 weekly visits through our house call program. I think last year through our foster and emergency care program we provided about 2,500 days of foster care. That program - we've seen, like pretty big growth in particular over the last year, thanks to a partnership that we've had with two other organizations that was funded by PetSmart charities. It's not even that we were providing different services, necessarily, but what we were doing was marketing it a lot more, because we had the capacity to serve more people, thanks to this particular grant and partnership. And that program also was really focused on trying to prevent emergencies, you know, helping people come up with pet plans. That way, if they did have a crisis, that they already knew what was going to happen with their pet. To your point earlier, you know, it is true when you meet with somebody, they often don't have somebody take care of their pets. So if they have a medical crisis going on, they might not go to the hospital, they might not seek inpatient treatment. And that's really what we're trying to avoid here - to make sure the human can get the help they need and the pets are cared for. And then we reunite them at the end where they can continue to benefit from their relationship.
Diaz Dixon:That's awesome. And I'm really intrigued, and in admiration of the fact that you're helping people develop pet plans, prior to crisis - because I would imagine a lot of people were coming to you at different times, that most of them probably coming while they're in crisis when they reach out to you. Or is it that they're oftentimes asking for help early? How does that...what does that look like for you guys, when people are coming to you?
Carrie Nydick Finch:I would say the majority of our emergency foster requests do come in when a crisis is happening. So you know, they have already pushed off their medical care for as long as they can because they didn't have a plan for the pet, or they didn't have the resources for the pet. And so by the time they call us, it is a crisis. And it has to happen. What Rachel was referring to was this idea, you know, this goal that we and these two other organizations had, which was,"Let's try to get in a little bit earlier and really reach folks before the emergency happens." And talk to them about, "What are the pieces of an emergency plan for your pet?""What should you include when you're thinking about this happening?" No one wants to think about it. But it's important. And we really put a lot of the resources into finding potential people that this might be helpful for, and doing presentations, sharing information, going to other social service providers who maybe have never thought about pets before. And telling them why it's important to think about pets, and why it's important to their clients. It's beneficial to everyone involved. Because if you're let's say, a geriatric social worker, and this emergency happens, you don't want to be the one stop caring for the pet. So if you if you have this other resource, it helps them as well. So we did focus a lot on spreading the word about, you know - emergency fostering should be the last resort, but it is available.
Diaz Dixon:That's good, getting out and spreading the word. And oftentimes, we just don't think outside the walls of our organization. So the fact that you guys are reaching out and talking to other social service programs, helping educate the...because even, people who run social service organizations oftentimes have pets and they love their own pet, but they don't think about it in the context of helping the people they serve and the connection there. So I like how you guys are connecting the dots with that. I can think of some stories personally with that. But I need to ask you, for both of you, what are some stories that really pop out for you, like, what has happened that really...can you each each of you give us a story that has really stuck with you?
Carrie Nydick Finch:Yeah, I have one that always sticks with me that, was a bit of a sad ending, but it ended up turning around into a happy ending. We had a client who was a client of ours for years - I want to say five or six years. She was a member of the Housecall program. She was not able to walk her dog due to mobility challenges. We helped, and it was a little chihuahua - we helped her with regular volunteers and her volunteer team was incredibly committed. They fell in love, everybody just got along, the volunteers gained this new friend from mostly a different generation - because most of our volunteers are a little bit younger - and then she gained all of these new people coming into her life. And then the dog gained, getting the care that that she needed. And for the time being, it really worked. And then sadly, the client did pass away. We do have quite a few older adults. And the emergency medical service that comes in, when there's an emergency, don't always know where to turn for the dog. And they didn't know that PAWS was involved. So the dog went to the city shelter. We love ACC, they are a great partner, and they do work that no one else wants to do. And they never say no to a pet. But all of a sudden, it became an emergency that we go pull that dog out, because another thing that we take responsibility for is to rehome a dog if we ever lose a client, or a cat or any other pet. So if we ever lose a client, they know that their pet will not go to the shelter, we will rehome them. And we take that responsibility very seriously. So within a couple hours, we had one of her long term, most dedicated volunteers on her way to the shelter. I was on my way to the shelter. We met there, we were able to get the dog out within hours, she had already become a staff favorite. She was that, you know, she was like brought out on a little dog bed and given to us. And she was so excited to see the volunteer because they had this relationship. And the volunteer took her home to foster her until we were able to rehome her. And she's actually the dog is still around and kicking and doing really well. And she's got to be in her late teens now. So, you know, it was scary for a little while, but it worked out really well. And it showed, sort of, many facets of our program and how relationships are really at the core.
Diaz Dixon:Yeah,what a great story. Thank you for sharing that. Okay Rachel, you're up.
Rachel Herman:I think we just got some photos sent to us of that dog recently, by the by the adopter. It was so nice to be able to follow up and hear how the pets are doing after. My story also was a little...not the happiest of happy. But to me, it just really demonstrates why the work we're doing is so important. We had a client who lived alone and he had a dog. He had a volunteer who would go several times a week and the volunteer got to know him very well. He rarely left his apartment for doctor's appointments, that was about it. And volunteer was there one day and said, "I'm going out of town tomorrow, is it okay if I come a little bit earlier than my usual shift?" And the client said yes. So the next day, the volunteers showed up, knocked on the door, the client didn't answer. Called his phone, the client didn't answer - kept knocking, kept calling. But he thought, "I was just with him yesterday, he said he was fine. I don't think he had anywhere to be or any doctor's appointments." So he was concerned. So he found the supervisor from the building who was able to let him in. And what they discovered was that the client had suffered a stroke, and was there and his dog was next to him. So it was a true medical emergency. They called an ambulance. I didn't think that the client would be okay. A couple days later, I'm sitting at my desk and my phone rings and it was the client from his hospital bed. And I just was...just shocked and amazed and like, so happy that he was okay. And the reason I tell the story is not to make me sad, because I know it's a sad story. But I think it's important because the responsibilities are our volunteers are taking on. It's not just you show up and you walk a dog and it's fun, right? That there's this human element to what we do that is so important. And is walking in and saving a person's life what you can expect every day? Absolutely not. But these are people, and they're trusting us to come into their homes. And we've got to be aware, and we have to use your common sense. And if there's anything that's ever concerning or a red flag, that communication is so important. There's too many situations that can come up that we could never prepare for them. But on that day, that volunteer saved that client's life. And that is incredible. So, you know, when we train our volunteers, yes, we talked about the animals and pet care, but at the end of the day, it is it is more preparation for that human piece, right? You know, you're walking into somebody's home, and somebody is maybe dealing with an illness or something going on in their lives that maybe as a volunteer, you've never experienced or had interaction with. Maybe the client has dementia. Making sure our volunteers are prepared is really, really one of the most important things that we can do. When it comes to setting up this organization for success, I think one of the best, if not the best part of what we do, honestly, are these relationships that form and Carrie probably has more stories about this than I ever could, because she's really on the ground with the programs. But as Carrie sort of alluded to earlier, these intergenerational connections that form between volunteers and clients are so powerful, you know, hearing stories about volunteers and clients spending Thanksgiving together, celebrating birthdays- it's just the most beautiful thing, and not something I thought about, if I'm being honest, at the beginning, I thought "I want to help people keep their pets because those relationships are important." But what's now happening is that person and that pet now have like a new like family of volunteers who are coming in, day in and day out. And they're developing these relationships that are independent, and really are just a wonderful thing for everybody involved. You're learning from somebody wouldn't have known otherwise. It's a neighbor that you wouldn't have known, so it's really great to hear these stories of connection.
Diaz Dixon:Stories of connection. They're so beautiful. And I love that story, too, as you're talking Rachel, because really, there's a domino effect to all of this. We think we're starting with just helping these pets out. Well, we're helping the people who are keeping the pets. Well, we're helping these families, or we're probably giving someone comfort who's far away for what's happening to their parents. Well, the volunteers that are coming in are also getting something from it. So we could probably keep going and going and going. And the impact really is is about spreading love, and oftentimes hope. And then that support can be right there. I love it. I love it. I know that Carrie, you're also a social worker.
Carrie Nydick Finch:I am.
Diaz Dixon:Okay, so you and I have very similar backgrounds in your training, I'm thinking that, some of these conversations and building this program, that you and Rachel have had is born from some of your own experience.
Carrie Nydick Finch:Yeah, I always say it was kind of kismet the way I came to PAWS. I was working as a clinical social worker and working with folks actively using drugs at a harm reduction program. I loved my work. But I also missed...there was something missing. It was this animal welfare component - I've always loved animals. And so how do I get it together? I actually started learning this 15 years ago, I started learning about animal assisted therapy and emotional support animals and therapy dogs and and some of the research that was coming out about the benefit - both ways - of this mutual mutual relationship. So I went ahead and did a certificate in that. And then I started looking for a job. And it took it took a while- there's not a lot of jobs at the intersection of human welfare and animal welfare. But then I found this PAWS listing and they were specifically looking for a social worker, because they very smartly, I think, recognized that some of the social work skills would benefit clients and would help with...a lot of our clients have very complex medical, mental health, socioeconomic...every issue under the sun they're up against.They recognize that and they were looking for a social worker and luckily, I applied. I think, I hope, it does bring value to what we do and how we develop programs and the way we look at...you know, everybody at PAWS is pretty social working, if that makes sense. But yeah, I do think it brings value and it can help with the lens that we look at our programming through.
Diaz Dixon:I love it, you're giving people the opportunity to...well, looking at it through your social work lens, we know how important it is to meet people where they're at and really, truly understand them, not havin a cookie cutter approach to things. That had to be a huge impact for you guys as a program and for you to as leaders of this organization during COVID. Because if we're talking about looking through our lens and having to pivot...what's been the impact on you? Where were you before, during, and where do you sit now?
Carrie Nydick Finch:So I'll give a little summary, but then Rachel, you can jump in. We did unfortunately, have to suspend our Housecall program, could not have volunteers going into the most vulnerable folks' homes - the most at risk. And we upped our other supplemental programs to try to make up...you know, you can't make up for the lack of those visits. But we tried to make some other things easier. When Rachel was talking about numbers earlier, we did lose clients. And we did we are still rebuilding after that. We reopened Housecall services in the fall of 2021. And we're still, two years later, trying to get back up to pre-pandemic services.
Diaz Dixon:Okay, I can imagine because I know New York was hit early and hard. Rachel, do you have anything that you wanted to
Rachel Herman:Carrie summarized it really nicely. I mean it was add on that? a difficult thing, right? Because we wanted to be providing as much support as possible. To expand on what Carrie said, we basically went up to providing 100% of pet food and supplies, because we didn't want our clients to feel they had to leave their homes, and, you know, potentially expose themselves. Remember those early days? New York City, we were bleaching our grocery deliveries and not going outside and all that stuff. We didn't want our clients to have to try and get to a pet store. Most of our clients, many of them, I think, don't utilize technology. So ordering online is not something that's necessarily feasible for everybody. That was a really big burden we wanted to basically eliminate for them. And foster care, we were still providing and vet care we were still providing. Also, to expand on what Carrie said, for those 18 months we were suspended - we are always gaining and losing clients - but for 18 months, we weren't bringing any new clients on. So what happened for 18 months is just, numbers would go down without the ability for them to go up. We are finally now at a point where we're seeing bigger client intakes. More client intakes and referrals are coming in recently, and our weekly visit number is almost back to where it was. But I would say our other programs are actually making a much bigger impact than they were pre pandemic. So while Housecall is still not quite where it was, I think our overall impact actually is greater. But we're doing almost 400 weekly visits with the house call program now, which is comparable, maybe a little bit lower than we were March 16th, 2020.
Diaz Dixon:Very interesting. Wow.
Rachel Herman:Yeah.
Diaz Dixon:With all these moving parts, obviously you need funding. How are you guys funded?
Rachel Herman:The largest percentage of funding comes from foundations, grants. So about 65% of our money is foundations and then the rest is a combination of individual giving, event revenue, some corporate funding and a little bit of government funding. But the grants, have been the biggest part. And we love grants, and we're going to continue to raise money through foundations, but we're really trying to figure out how to raise awareness and increase the piece of the pie that's the individual donors to really make sure people know about what we're doing and and figure out how to connect with people who our mission resonates with. I'm looking to increase support in that way as well. Because that's, I think the best way to truly be sustainable and to ensure that, you know, we don't want to be an organization that is dependent on one, let's say big funder, for example. Fortunately, we're in a position where that's not really the case right now, but we still would like to kind of shift the pieces of the pie a little bit.
Diaz Dixon:Yeah, yeah, I know exactly where you're going with that. Because that is the key - the sustainability. When you're doing really good things, people need to know you're doing really good things and have that pathway of how they can come in and help you. Now, oftentimes, that's volunteering, but oftentimes, it's writing a check to. And you can have that down from people who aren't even in New York. So we've got listeners on here, having an opportunity to write a check and help out is always a good thing. I think you both will agree with me.
Rachel Herman:It is a good thing and we appreciate being given this platform to share our work and get the word out there because it's so important.
Diaz Dixon:So important. What do you think your funders find to be the most persuasive when you're asking for support?
Rachel Herman:That's a really interesting question. I don't think I've been asked that question before. I think what we're doing is very uniqu. We are - and I think we've used term a couple times so far in this conversation - we are at the intersection of animal and human welfare, which I think in recent years, we're starting to see grow. This idea of surrender prevention, and keeping pets in their homes. And 15 years ago, when I was starting the organization, that was really not something you saw so much. I think the fact that we are the only organization in New York City that's exclusively dedicated to providing these services to such a large segment of the population...I think that is pretty persuasive, right? Like, there are other groups doing amazing work and providing services for animals that help keep them in their homes. But the variety of services we have, the focus on daily, in-person physical support, is is unique in New York City. So I think that's pretty big. I think we have been successful in reaching out to organizations that serve older adults in particular. Having conversations about how important of a role a pet can play in that person's life and their well being and their health has been probably, I would say, where we've been most successful. When coming to seeking grants...with animal welfare focused foundations, sometimes it's been a little harder if I'm being honest. Because we don't fit the traditional mold of rescue, spay/neuter, and things like that. What's interesting, and also brings opportunities, depending on who we're talking to, the conversation can be a little different. Are we focused on animals? Are we focused on people? Are we focused on both? Because every funder has their own priorities, and what we're doing really kind of connects it all together.
Diaz Dixon:Yeah. I love what you're doing. And just because your ability to reach out to people who love the different causes, whether it's people with disabilities or elderly population, or pets...and you're right, you're not fitting into just the typical boxes that have been laid out, traditionally. I have to ask you this - there's going to be a number of people here who are listening, who say,"Wow, Pets Are Wonderful Support. This is amazing. I need this in my community." What would you say to them? Where would they even start?
Rachel Herman:Great question. I see Carrie smiling because we talk about this all the time. I will say I get contacted often by people interested in starting similar programs. And I love to help. I mean, we wouldn't be here today if I didn't have somebody that helped me who was working at a similar organization out on the West Coast. To the extent that we can be supportive we will. Obviously, within within the resources that I have to be helpful. I'm always open to having a phone call. There's a lot of work that's involved. Every community is different, right? So New York City is really reliant on public transportation. The way we operate is going to be much different than, say, a different city where it's not subways, but people are driving and things like that. So every organization is different, but you need volunteers, and you need to find the people. And I think my biggest thing is you've got to find people who can do things you can't. We brought Carrie in- she's a social worker, right? When I was forming the board, I found people who had skill sets I knew I just I didn't have right. So for those interested in starting similar programs, I think, number one, I'm happy to the extent I can be a resource. So I'm open to people reaching out to me. And if I'm able to answer some startup questions, I'm happy to do that. Things that sound really boring, but are very important. Like insurance, liability insurance - there are things you have to do as an organization that seem very...important is not the right word...by the book? If you want to create an organization that can be sustainable, where you can help as many people as possible, you also have to do it the right way. And I am a very much somebody who wants to make a big impact. But I want to do it the right way so that we can continue to do it. I'm happy to share what those initial steps were, from forming a board to looking into insurance. Insurance was a big obstacle. I couldn't find a company to give us insurance at the beginning. I literally had to, every time I trained a volunteer, send in a handwritten check with the volunteer's name on it in the beginning. I mean, we just surpassed 5000 Volunteers can you imagine? That's just not something that we could maintain. But fortunately, after some sort of operational history, it was then easier to go and get coverage. So there are some roadblocks and hurdles, but I think if you're passionate and you can find the right people to surround yourself with, it's definitely possible and I'm just still amazed at how giving members of our community are. The volunteers are the best. People want to help, right?
Diaz Dixon:They do.
Rachel Herman:Yeah, they do. And we've been so lucky. But I think because what we're doing is just a little unique. We're getting the people who love the pets, but then they see there's a human component. And that's what stands out. So we're a little different. I think that's been the recipe for success for us - standing out in that way.
Diaz Dixon:That's awesome. And people are craving to help. People are craving for something to do that makes them feel good, they can give back. And oftentimes, the pathways just aren't laid out very clear for them. So it sounds like you guys are doing a lot with that. I mean, you've been doing it for 15 years. You're you're 15 years in. What would each of you say is the biggest lesson learned in your tenure?
Carrie Nydick Finch:Oh, you're coming with hard questions, Diaz. I would say biggest lesson learned for me is - and you kind of just asked about it - adaptability. Because we have our ideas of what the programs should be and how they should go. And I am a program development nerd, so we spend months with new programs, building out policies and procedures, and all of this stuff. And you don't know what's going to happen. So we want to grow. But we also love being a smaller nonprofit because of our ability to be nimble. When we see an issue, we can change it. There's not this huge bureaucracy that we're working with where it takes six months to change a question on our intake form. We can just be like, "Okay, this is a problem." And I also love that as a as a program development person, that, when we saw the need for emergency fostering for folks in the hospital, we were able to go for it and try it out. And then obviously, COVID threw everything upside down and we had to pivot and figure out how we could still help people and how we could mitigate the trauma of that time as much as we could for our clients. So yeah, adaptability would probably be my biggest lesson learned over
Diaz Dixon:I love it. Okay, how about you, Rachel? You have to the last decade. follow that.
Rachel Herman:Yeah, it's hard. I think there's so many...I mean, one big one is setting boundaries. I think this is not just important for me, it's important for staff, it's important volunteers, it's important for clients. Boundary setting is really important. It's actually a big part of our volunteer training, because we are all very passionate, and we want to help and it's all coming from a very positive place, but I learned very early on that setting boundaries was was critical. It kind of gets back to what I was talking about earlier too, sort of about doing things the right way. So in the early days, when it was just me and a volunteer would say, I can't make my dog walking shift, I literally would go and walk the client's dog. And that was good, I was learning about our programs and making sure I understood...but at the end of the day, that's not something I can continue to do. And that's not...if we want to grow, the executive directors shouldn't be showing up every time a shift is missed. And the same goes for volunteers - it's really hard. Sometimes you're in a position where a client might ask for something that is beyond the scope of our services. And sometimes it's really easy to do those things because you want to and it's easy for you to do it. And some of these things are totally fine to do. But it's difficult as a nonprofit with a very specific mission too. And sometimes some of the requests are uncomfortable, something that maybe isn't an appropriate request. We do our best to prepare volunteers for difficult conversations and interactions. If you're ever asked to do something that's outside the scope snd you're uncomfortable, we try and share some language that might be helpful for them - we try and make sure they know to put the blame on the organization. Like we can, you know, we can talk to them about it. I think generally, boundaries are really important because everybody involved is so passionate, it is so easy to just be giving more of ourselves. But if we're giving too much, we're gonna burn out right and then we're not going to be as good at our jobs and we're not gonna be as good at helping people. And so for me, I'm really big on them - especially on our staff, our team. We're human and who we are matters and we need to feel good and be healthy and to be appreciated so that we can show up every day and be the best possible, you know, Deputy Director of Programs and Strategy or Executive Director or you know, whatever the position might be. So I think boundaries are really important because it's impossible to help everyone in the world and knowing that as long as we're doing our best to provide the most amount of help for the people we can help, that's what we need to be doing. And then we grow as we can. And other lessons learned...I don't know, I think, let's not be afraid to share ideas. I think it's very easy to come up with an idea, whether it's to start your own nonprofit or whatever and think,"Oh, it probably exists already." Well, you know? Maybe it doesn't. So not being afraid to take chances. And I'm not naturally a risk taker, butnot to be afraid to take chances, especially when it comes to, you know, helping other people and helping animals and potentially doing things that could be life changing for them. So it's worth it to pursue your passions.
Diaz Dixon:Absolutely. You never know who they're going to be impacting and helping.
Rachel Herman:Yeah.
Diaz Dixon:Well, I've got one final question for each of you. It's my favorite question, I like to ask ask it in every single interview. Tell me a little bit about the pet or pets in your life, who inspire you to make this world a better place.
Carrie Nydick Finch:So I had a childhood full of all kinds of pets, including a wonderful childhood dog. And then my soul dog, Emmy Lou, I had for nine years - she passed away two years ago. She unfortunately got bone cancer. But she was like, my best friend. She helped me relate personally. I mean, my other pets did as well, but having her helps you think - and I think this is true for volunteers, donors, supporters, other people, if they've had a pet - it just hits differently. They're able to say, "Oh, my gosh, what if I couldn't take care of my pet?" and, "How painful would that be?", "What if I couldn't afford a dog walker?" And so I think, yeah, she was my girl and she...she definitely motivated me for a while.
Diaz Dixon:That is awesome. And touching. All at once.
Carrie Nydick Finch:Yeah.
Diaz Dixon:How about you, Rachel?
Rachel Herman:Yeah, similar to Carrie. I grew up with pets. We always had a household animals. My parents met walking dogs in New York City. So I always joke that I was meant to be doing this kind of work. But for me, I had a cat - I was adopted him when I was in fourth grade, and he was my cat. He's slept in my bed every night, he followed me all around. I think that was the first pet I had where I have a really special relationship. It allowed me to understand how transformational those relationships can be. His name was Felix. Sadly, he only lived six years, it was very sad. He ended up having a heart condition we didn't know about. He was just wonderful. And then when I graduated college, my first order of business was,"Alright after I get a place to live and get a job, I'm adopting Absolutely. No matter how young we are, how old we are, what a cat." So I adopted my cat Wiley, and he was just wonderful. And I had him...he he died a few years ago, actually it was three years ago, a couple days ago. He was 17. And he was just like, the sweetest guy. He was like my cat like. He didn't go around anyone else, he was with me. I have a cat now named Milo. Milo is just the friendliest cat. I actually rescued him off the street in Brooklyn doing one of the very first in person intakes for PAWS. He was outside, limping with a crooked tail on my way back to the L train. I scooped him up, took him to an emergency clinic that night, and he's been with me ever since. And he's 15 now. I even see it with my - my youngest daughter is four. And when she gets very upset the only thing that calms her down is my cat. She just cries "I want Milo. I want Milo." She's just a four year old having a tantrum, but I see how healing - and he is for me too - just hear feeling and hearing as per what I'm upset...it's just a really beautiful thing. For our clients who are more isolated, and often their pets are, in a lot of cases, sometimes their sole source of companionship - it's just so important. situation we're in. Yeah, they can mean a lot to us long term or in those special moments when we need them. Yeah.
Diaz Dixon:It's awesome. I want to thank you guys both for coming on. How can our listeners find you guys?
Rachel Herman:Well, thank you so much for having us, Diaz. This is amazing. And we appreciate this opportunity. There's a few ways that listeners can find us. We're on social media. So Instagram, and Facebook, where our handle is@pawsny, so P-A-W-S N-Y. and our website is pawsny.org. And definitely encourage people to find us on social media - we're posting stories of how we're making an impact all the time. We're sharing information about how people can sign up to become a volunteer. Our trainings are virtual, twice a month, and we're really looking for people to spread the word and just being engaged with what we're doing and hope that we're the right fit for the listeners.
Diaz Dixon:I'm sure that you're right fit for many of our listeners. So, for those of you guys who are out there listening, I encourage you to definitely go to those websites, go to their social media, follow these guys and support them. Again, I gotta thank you both for coming on. You are fabulous guests. You've got more...you've got stories - I keep listening to you on and on about things that you're doing. I can only imagine the great places you'll go. So thank you both.
Rachel Herman:Thank you so much.
Carrie Nydick Finch:Thank you.
Diaz Dixon:Absolutely. And for those you listeners out there, thank you for tuning in to another episode of People, Pets, and Purpose, where we really focus on that human-animal bond and are focusing on human kindness and pet kindness, because we certainly know we need a lot more of that these days. So until next time, be well and lead with love.