Episode 2 - How to have better conversations

When we start talking about our politics or our values, it can all feel a bit dicey. We're used to avoiding controversial topics and just playing nice, because we don't really know how to have conversations - rather than arguments. 

In this episode I introduce you to the 3 tools you need to have better conversations. So you can share your views in your business, and sit around the table with relatives who disagree with you. 

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Transcript

Welcome back to week two of The Soap Box podcast. 

Talking about politics is tricky in the best of circumstances. 

And it's not because you're rubbish. 

That's because we have been conditioned, nudged, encouraged over the last 10 years or so, to approach people who disagree with us in a confrontational manner. 

Because that's what sells papers. That's what drives clicks and traffic and advertisers. And Elon Musk's bank account. And all that jazz. 

And. Let's face it.  We've had to deal with some pretty tricky topics over the last few years. And I'm pretty sure that at some point in the last 10 or so years, you will have had a conversation with someone you love. Or a colleague or a complete stranger that very quickly turned into an argument about something to do with politics, the environment, or social justice. 

Brexit, maybe. Trump. Vaccines. Who's fault child poverty is. What we should do with the BBC TV license. 

You fast forward to the end of the so-called discussion and everyone's left feeling hyped up, attacked, upset. And staring up the remains of a broken relationship on the floor. 

Wouldn't it be nice if you could talk about the things that matter to you without unleashing this terrain of debate club-level points on the human being that you're talking to? 

And that's what I'm offering you today. Three tools that help you have important conversations across the political divide. Without burning bridges. 

Because if you are going to start talking about your values, your viewpoints, your vision, your ethics. In your business messaging. 

Then you're going to need to know how to do it. Without leaving the remains of client or personal relationships. All over the floor. 

And I would like this to be a pleasant experience; not a solo crusade.

I think that these days, with this increased political polarization, when someone challenges your politics or your ideas, it feels really personal. It feels like you need to be defensive because they're attacking you. Not just something that you think. 

And this has two results. Firstly, we take people disagreeing with us incredibly personally. And secondly, we put people in boxes. We have the box for the people who believe the same things that we do. And these people are reasoned and logical and have thought hard about their opinions and their beliefs. 

They've got resources and rationales and they're nice. Like you'd want to go to dinner with them, have some drinks, maybe do a little bit of dancing. If that's your thing. And then there were other people who disagree with us in another box over here.  And these people will have obviously, either been manipulated or they've come to their conclusions in a misguided way. 

They've jumped to conclusions and they've not thought things through properly. Or they're horrible evil people, and we have to convince them that they're wrong. 

When we have this kind of mindset where we put people in boxes, it makes it almost impossible to have a conversation with someone from a different part of the political spectrum without it turning into an argument. And then we never learn how to talk to people who disagree with us. 

But, you know, there were a lot of people on the planet. And the chances are that you're going to come across more people who disagree with you than people who agree with you. And that doesn't mean that they're all horrible people. And it also doesn't mean that we should avoid them and stay in our little silos. 

For the nice fluffy "Yes, you're completely right" people. 

But the thing is, it's not actually impossible to have a nice, gentle, productive conversation with someone who disagreed with you. And I have three tools to help you talk to people who disagree with you and come out the other side without feeling like you've been in a battle. Instead, you will come out the other side, feeling like you've made progress, like things have moved forward. 

And guess what. So will the other person. 

And these magic tools?

Listening properly. Considering things from the other person's perspective. And approaching every conversation with curiosity. 

Now, right. They're not rocket science. 

But, they are really, really easy to forget. I'm going to take one at a time, think about why they're important, and then talk about how we can put them into practice as we think about how we can talk about our values and our politics and our messaging. 

So number one. Listen properly. Okay. It sounds really obvious. Of course, if you're having a conversation. You're listening. Except, are you?

Generally speaking. When people are listening to someone talk, they're not really listening. If your kids are speaking, are you really paying attention to every single thing that they're telling you about the latest Fortnite battle? Or Pokemon development that they went through or are you mentally going through the shopping list? 

No shade. I've been there. 

When you're having a conversation or a debate with someone who you disagree with, you're not really listening to them while they're talking. You are mentally forming your next point. You're working on how you can reverse everything that they've just said and how you can convince them. You're not listening. 

You're waiting your turn. 

And that's not constructive. Because what you miss while you're doing that are the things that will help you understand this other person. The words that they're using. The vocabulary. What they're emphasizing. Whether they're shy about different things or they're stuttering. Whether they seem particularly nervous, impassioned or angry. 

You're missing their body language and we all know how much that can tell us about what's going on inside. Someone's head. 

Imagine you begin a conversation with a family member who disagrees with you about prison reform. For example. And you can see that they're getting incredibly upset. So they're using really emotive words and they seem agitated. That tells you something about where that person is coming from. 

It tells you that this isn't an academic argument for them. It's something that matters to them on a personal level. Perhaps they've had a relative or a friend sent to prison. Perhaps they work in the prison system. Maybe someone they love or that they themselves have been a victim of crime. And the perpetrator of that crime went to prison. 

All these things. You learn from watching and listening properly. And you'll miss them all. If you're working out what three point argument you're going to use to rebut. Everything. This is not debate club. This is a real life conversation with a human. 

Which brings us to tool number two. Consider things from that perspective. 

You can get the first clues on this from listening to the language that they're using in their body language. But to really get into it, you have to put your assumptions to one side and ask questions. What experience has this person had that has led them to their opinion. 

Even if the belief that they have as a conspiracy theory, that's been soundly debunked by everybody that you trust. The chances are they'll come to that belief through logic and reason and rationale. Even if it's a different logic, reason or rationale. Then you would have done. That have searched for answer to their questions and found different sources. 

It will make sense to them. There is genuinely going to be a reason behind what they say. And seeing things from different perspectives, it helps you get to that reason. 

Think about what knowledge and experience they have had that you haven't. For example, did they grow up massively poor and you actually had a pretty financially stable upbringing. That gives them a different experience. It gives them a different slant on some topics. Did they experience a loved one who was a drug addict or an alcoholic? 

Which then causes their opinions on drugs, alcohol, or addiction therapy. 

We could go on and on, and there are countless examples, but when you start to see things from other people's perspective and you realize how they got to where they are. It really helps you see the other person as an actual human being, somebody with the same intellectual and emotional capacity as you. 

Someone with similar concerns to you. 

There were another human being who just like you worries about their family. I'm paying the energy bills. 

And if you remember that, then you are much less likely to go off on a terrain about your topic of choice. You want to not having an academic argument? You are dealing with another person, another human being and their emotions. That trauma. Often. 

And then we get to tour number three. Which is approaching every conversation with curiosity. 

We've listened properly. We've considered the perspective of the person we're talking to. 

But you also need to stop and think. What can you learn from this interaction? 

Ethan. Who is my son.  Is 11. 

And,  in the last term at school, he was writing an essay to try and convince the reader that whaling was wrong. 

The whole point of the activity was to argue this position that waiting was wrong and convinced the person, who was reading it? To agree with him. 

I want you to tell me about it. I was suddenly taken back to my English class. Sitting there I was an 11 year old writing an essay about why Fox hunting was wrong. 

We were learning the particular skill of writing persuasively.  which was part of the curriculum that every child in the UK had to follow. And it turns out. 

we learned how to take a position and to convince someone that this view was right. 

And we got doled out a variety of positions that we didn't necessarily agree with so that we could learn the tools and the skills without being emotionally tied to. Our particular view. 

Which I mean, I would argue is fairly flawed, but you know, I'm not in charge of the UK school curriculum. 

Now. This is a really important life skill. Being able to persuade people of your point of view can be quite useful and being able to do it without being manipulative is even more important. 

Then in how to argue, you convincing me. Helps you. Get your views across helps you advocate for your needs, your wants your beliefs. It gives you power. 

But at no point in our curriculum, When I was a kid. Um, now my son is at school. 

At school or as an adult. Do we learn how to have conversations? We don't learn how to enter into a conversation with someone who disagrees with us with curiosity and compassion. We don't have to win. And actually, I think that means that we default to arguing our point. Like we're in a debate every time we're confronted with somebody who disagrees with us. 

Instead. Approaching a conversation with curiosity means that you don't see it as a failure. If you walk away without having convinced this person that they're wrong. You see it as a win that you've learned something new about them. Something new about the topic. Or learn about different perspective. 

You might even be able to find common ground something that you do agree on and can work together on. 

And if you do that, Then, what you're really doing is holding that conversation gently. It's not a life or death struggle. And I think we've been taught to view arguments or debates about political views. Or ethical social justice views as life and death struggles. It's why we resort to personal attacks online and why our attempts or discussions are often. 

Fraught with conflict. 

It's why we can't sit around it. Christmas dinner table. And talk about something like Brexit. Without all hell breaking loose. 

But you see, it's not a battle. 

It's just a conversation. 

And if we approach those conversations with curiosity, Empathy and a willingness to learn. Then together we can reduce the political polarization. That stops us from sitting down and having coffee with people that we love. 

That leads us to block family members on Facebook. That fractures, our society. 

So the next time you sit down at the dinner table with aunt Stephanie or uncle Bob. For Thanksgiving or Christmas. And they come out with something that you massively disagree with on climate change or gun control. 

Start with listening. 

Rather than jumping off this dying line. Yelling at them about how misguided and wrong they are, because you think you can convince them otherwise. Leaving everyone else at the table, staring at the brussel sprouts. 

You don't have to avoid family dinners completely either. There is a middle ground. You can just have a conversation. 

You can ask why Stanley believes that. Where did they get those ideas from? How did they come to their conclusions? Conclusions? What don't you know about her life. That means it makes sense for her to believe those things. Even if you might personally find them quite offensive. 

And when you have answers to those questions, you can employ a little empathy. 

And look at Sony as a human being with intrinsic value. Uh, some of her experiences. Influences and circumstances. Just like you. Which is a great place to start your next conversation. 

So the next time. You end up. Online or in real life. So opposite somebody who. Disagrees with you. 

And the first thing that pops into your mind is. How could they be so stupid? Don't they understand. 

I'd love it. If you just stop. For a few seconds. 

Take a deep breath. 

And see this moment as an opportunity. To learn something new. About another human being. 

Rather than see it as an opportunity to score a point. 

And maybe. 

Once you've gathered that new information. 

You'll have a fuller. More rounded picture. 

Of whatever topic it is that you're discussing. 

But you'll also have a closer connection with another human being. 

Isn't that what this is all about. Anyway. 

Let me know how it goes. I'd love to hear how you get one. And I will see you on the next episode of the soapbox.