Why you can’t outsource your values, with Crystal Whiteaker

Today's guest is Crystal Whiteaker, founder of Crystal Lily Creative, an inclusive leadership and brand development consultancy. Crystal is also the author of Brave Leadership is a Choice: An Inclusive Guide to Creating Belonging, and she works with mission-driven founders over meaningful stretches of time – starting with who you are as a leader, then aligning your messaging and your backend systems so the experience you promise is the one people actually get.

With 20 years of experience across creative and process-driven industries, Crystal brings a unique blend of strategy, empathy, and creativity to her work. She helps leaders make aligned, human-focused decisions and build environments rooted in diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging.

In our conversation, we dig into values as more than very snazzy wall art (you know the type I mean). Crystal frames them as a working compass that helps you choose, especially when the choice is hard. She shares her Aligned Values Framework®, the way she helps her clients anchor their decisions in what they stand for before they go hunting for bias and gaps in their operations.

We also talk about the difference between supporting diversity and practising inclusion, and the different ways inclusion shows up day to day. And because none of this is tidy, Crystal offers simple ways for leaders to build tolerance for discomfort, so the work continues even when the climate makes it tempting to step back.

If you care about leading with your values, both in what you say and how you run things, this one will feel like a deep breath and a nudge forward.

So, as always, grab your notebook and a cup of coffee, and listen to Crystal get on her soapbox.

Crystal's Links:

Brave Leadership Roundtable: A community gathering for socially conscious leaders to discuss values-aligned leadership and how we show up in consideration of ourselves, our communities, the people we serve, our messaging, and how we talk about the things that matter to us and our work.

Email Crystal at YouBelong@crystallily.co
Website: Crystal Lily Creative

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Transcript

1:18

Today's guest is Crystal Whitaker. She's the founder of Crystal Lily Creative and inclusive leadership and brand consultancy. Crystal works with founders over meaningful stretches of time, starting with who you are as a leader, then aligning your messaging and your backend systems so that the experience you promise is the experience that people actually get. In our conversation today, we dig into values as more than very snazzy wall art. You know the type, I mean Crystal frames them as a working compass that helps you choose, especially when the choice is hard. She shares her aligned values framework with us, which is the way that she helps her clients anchor their decisions in what they stand for before they go hunting for bias and gaps in their operations. We also talk about the difference between supporting diversity and practicing inclusion and the different places inclusion shows up in. And because none of this is tidy, crystal offers simple ways that leaders can build tolerance for discomfort so that the work continues even when the climate makes it tempting to step back. You know, like now, if you care about leading with your values in what you say and how you run things, this one will feel like a deep breath and a nudge forward. So, as always, grab your notebook and um, a cup of coffee. And sit back and listen to Crystal get on her soapbox.

Peta: 2:48

Crystal, it is really lovely to have you on the Soapbox podcast. I'm really excited for our chat.

Crystal: 2:53

Likewise, pita. I'm really excited for our chat. Thank you for having me.

Peta: 2:58

at all. Um, so for people who do not know you, I haven't come across you yet. Um, can you give them a little bit of a rundown on who you are, what you do, and how you got here?

Crystal: 3:08

Yeah, my name is Crystal Whitaker Pronoun. She her, I own a company called Crystal Lilly Creative, and it's an inclusive leadership and brand development consultancy. And so the work that I do is centered around at helping folks. Ensure that they are cultivating inclusive, human-focused values, aligned environments. And I work with people in a range of ways because I have a multifaceted approach. Um, I don't see leadership or even brand development as, you know, these, these checkbox series of things. It's very much. Who are you? What is the foundation? So we work together, uh, through coaching, training, consulting, and for the folks who need the additional creative elements. I also provide photography and video.

Peta: 3:59

That's great. That's, yeah, like the full service. I like that.

Crystal: 4:02

Yay.

Peta: 4:03

Cool. So, um, what kind of things do you, do you work on with, um, with the brand, with these brands?

Crystal: 4:12

So to give a full spectrum of what I have done, I'll, I'll give the largest or order that I've, I've delivered for a client and now it'll give people a, a full picture. So, um, and this was, honestly, it's, these kinds of jobs are my favorite because. I will, I will say, this is kinda a sidebar, but getting to work with people for a longer period of time really helps to solidify the foundation because it's like we could work together for, you know, a couple of months and get the surface level stuff, but if we're working together for six months, which that is a typical engagement. Then we are starting with the foundation. Usually it is coaching. I work mostly with small business owners and founders, and it is, it begins with leadership coaching. Who, who are you as a leader? What do you really believe in? What do you value? How do you want? To serve people. How do you want people to feel? That sort of thing. And once folks are really rooted in the foundation of who they are, then it translates to how does this fit into the business that you're leading? And we'll work together on messaging. We'll work together on the backend operations because one of the things that, uh, it's is really important for folks to be aware of is what you put out. In terms of the things that people will be viewing, witnessing seeing on your website, hearing you speak about those, those things are all great and important, and how you operate behind the scenes needs to be streamlined and in alignment with that. So if you really care about your client experience, what is that thing that you're taking them through on the backend? What systems do you have? What systems do you need? What's the process like? Are there any gaps that need to be considered? Um, or things that are just not necessary? So looking at all of those pieces and making sure that it is clear, connected, and streamlined. Through the lens of their values. And because I don't do anything without considering all lived experiences, we're going to talk about inclusivity.

Peta: 6:22

So you have the full service. Yeah. Running the whole gamut. I love that. That's really cool.

Crystal: 6:26

Yeah. Yeah. And then for, for the, for those clients, we're, we're also doing once, once all that foundational stuff, the backend stuff is done. Then we're also doing the photography and the video to make sure that it all aligns. Because it just makes sense. And by that point. Myself and anybody that I'm bringing onto the team to work on your engagement, we, we know and understand what you're about, so we can translate it into the visuals.

Peta: 6:50

I think there's such power in having, in working with consultants and, and freelancers and, and kind of, uh, subcontractors who know your business almost as well as you do, and have spent that time kind of being steeped in it and living in it. I think there's, you can come up with some Yeah. Incredible things when you've got that much Commitment and knowledge. That's really cool.

Crystal: 7:14

You say commitment. And it's funny, someone recently told me that that's one of the things that they really admired about my approach, not just to the way that I work, but just in general. And even in that, like that commitment. I'm taking on an engagement, a client. I'm invested. It's not, I don't treat it as just another job or just another gig. It's very much an investment on my part. Like, I wanna see you win. I.

Peta: 7:42

Yeah. No, that's clear. That's awesome. So now that we've got a bit of an idea about who you are and what you do, um, everybody who comes on the podcast, um, I ask them what their soapbox is, what the thing that gets them all riled up, that they can't stop talking about the thing that kind of seeps into everything that they do. Um, what is your soapbox crystal?

Crystal: 8:05

A hundred percent core values.

Peta: 8:07

Excellent.

Crystal: 8:08

Yeah, I, I could get on several soapbox about core values and how. Inclusion can be tied into them. And so there, there are a few arms of this because core values are the, what I run everything through when I'm working with clients and we're, we're doing it with an inclusive lens. And on the leadership side, I do not believe that leadership, true leadership is possible without being inclusive.

Peta: 8:42

I love it. That's really cool. Okay, so core values. now I think that sometimes a little bit like ethical business or ethical marketing or. Authenticity, the word values gets thrown around an awful lot. for businesses, for founders, for kind of marketers and, and coaches. Um, how, how do you define what values kind of are? If you're working with, with a business or with a founder? It.

Crystal: 9:13

Oh, no one's ever asked me that. How do I define what values are? I mean, I. I would say if you're genuinely operating through the lens of your values, values are like your compass. It's, it is like a compass for your decision making. It is a compass for your way of being and how you're showing up. And I was actually, uh, in a conversation with a group of folks from a community called Consciousness Leaders. We were actually talking about values and one of, one of the folks in conversation reflected back that core values are, it's, it's not just about, you know, being in alignment with your values and everything's, you know, rainbows and butterflies. That's not exactly what they said, but that's how I interpreted it. But they, they were also pointing out that living in alignment with values also means. Having to make hard decisions sometimes, and I think that that's a conversation that needs to be had more because I do have conversations like that with my clients behind the scenes when we're, you know, in coaching sessions. But the reality is it's, it's really easy to. Say, these are my values and this is the thing that I'm going after. The, the things that are shiny and exciting, right? But what happens when you come up against something? That means you have to make a hard decision to be in alignment with your values, where you're in conflict. And so I, I really see it as this compass and how can you live in a way that. Even when you're in conflict, when you're on the other side of that conflict, you still know that you made the right decision.

Peta: 11:07

So true. I've worked with lots of businesses who want a page somewhere on their website or somewhere in their brand messaging guide that says, these are our values and they tend to be nice and fluffy and that's fine. Um, but yeah, I think it's really interesting to dig into the idea of how values will sometimes mean that if you are living by them, that you will make hard decisions. So do you do any work guiding the people you work with through those decisions and kind of how they can stick to those values?

Crystal: 11:49

Yeah, so I actually, there's a framework that I use that I developed called the Aligned Values Framework, and there's six steps in the framework that I guide people through. And I'll be really clear because I, I, I'm. Always cautious around, um, doing this one size fit, fits all approach or even even brands and things that leaders, coaches that, you know, this is the one size fit all. You have to do it exactly this way. I wanna be really clear that this framework is just, it's just a blueprint. And so the way that I work with folks is using it as a guide and the third and fourth step of this framework. Our root and disrupt and root comes before disrupt on purpose. Because we're doing the deep values work. We are examining what it is that folks wanna do, what their roles are, you know, the things that they are committed to. We do the really deep work around core values, not just what they are, but. What they mean, how they actually benefit other people, not just you. And once people are really, really rooted in those values, we're also looking at three buckets. It's, you know, your individual values, your brand core values, and then your community or relationship core values. And once people are rooted in those, then we go into disrupt. And that's where we're doing bias work. And I'm not just talking about bias work around identities and perceptions on other people's lived experiences. Right. We're also doing. Bias work on your perception of the role that you have, the organization that you're a part of, or that you're building, um, and the ways in which you spend your time in community. And the, the conversations and the questions that come up in that space really solidify for people. Uh, this. The ability, I guess you could say, on how they can use their values to interrogate the things that they are. Either considering or things that they've done in the past. So for example, if someone says, you know, um, wellbeing is really important to me. This, you know, this really matters, and then we get to a portion bias and they notice something in their business processes that actually counter wellbeing, then it becomes this filter of, Ooh, that's actually counter to the thing that I believe. Now I need to reconsider how I'm doing this because if wellbeing's important to them and it's impacting their wellbeing negatively, or their team or even their clients where, you know, things can be jarring for, for clients or the process, what have you, uh, their values end up acting like a filter for how they make decisions and move through the world.

Peta: 14:44

Yeah. Do you ever get founders who or organizations that come up against that kind of situation? and then go, I think maybe we have to shift the value.

Crystal: 14:59

You know, I haven't, but I don't think that it's impossible. I, I, I work on a really deep level with clients in that way. Um, we've had, we've had conversations where we'll go back and double check, you know, does this actually, is this value still true? And it, it's usually the value that's true. And the, the thing, the process or the, the bias that needs to shift.

Peta: 15:29

Yeah. Do you think that, um, so obviously this is one of the first things that you do with the people that you work with, is, is these values go through this. Framework.

Crystal: 15:40

Hmm.

Peta: 15:40

Um, do you think that there are parts of a business or parts of an organization that can exist in isolation from like a business's core values or if everything does, everything have to kind of, kind of come under that umbrella?

Crystal: 15:59

That's a really good question. Um. I, I hesitate to answer that because I don't work a lot with tech or finance people, so I don't think I can give a, a full scope answer. And most, most of the businesses that I work with are, are, you know, small, smaller businesses. They're not these huge organizations. The only time that I typically work with larger organizations is strictly in a training capacity where they'll, they'll invite me in to do training.

Peta: 16:29

Okay. No, that that's, yeah, that's totally fair. I think that. I guess the reason that I asked is because when I think about slightly bigger organizations that often the discourses, our values are really important. To like the way we interact with our customers or the way that we, um, we work together as a team. Um, but then there are some things that are purely to do with this is the most efficient way of doing something, or this is the most cost effective way of doing something, or this will make the most money. And yeah. Wondering about the interplay between kind of those things. Is there a firewall that goes, we are a business, we need to make money. Our values are there to support all of us. Um, but yeah, I, yeah, I guess it was, it was a curiosity of mine rather than an integral question.

Crystal: 17:21

It's, it's, it's a valid curiosity. Absolutely. And I appreciate the question because that's something that even I, moving forward, I, I, I will look for because it honestly hasn't come up.

Peta: 17:33

Yeah. No, that's interesting. You'll have to let me know. I'm, I, uh, I'm fascinated. So it's going back to this idea that some, um, some values that you might choose or that you might profess to be part of your, um, to part of your brand or your own leadership kind of core values can. Or kind of difficult conversations. I wanted to come back to this idea of inclusion. Um. There's, there's a sentence on your website, which, I'd never really heard anyone phrase it quite this way before, and it was really interesting, um, that says supporting diversity is not the same as practicing inclusion. And it really, it kind of stopped me in my tracks because I, when I am getting to know brands or when I am reading through marketing materials or whatever. When I'm working with a client or, um, or scrolling on Instagram or threads or whatever, I will often see businesses talk about supporting diversity. Um, sadly in the last six months or so, it's gone. It's become less common to see. Because of, of the DDEI backlash that's been going on, especially in America. Um, but it is still, it felt like one of those kind of boilerplate statements like we support diversity and this idea that actually that's not the same as practicing inclusion. kind of really hit me. I wonder if you can expand on that a little bit more, um, about kind of what you meant by that.

Crystal: 19:12

Yeah, absolutely. So with supporting diversity not being the same as practicing inclusion, it, a lot of folks will treat diversity like this, this checkbox. We have a diverse team. You're, when you have a diverse team, that's just a start. You're, it's, you're essentially giving people a seat at the table. Um, with representation. You are. Creating space for people to be heard. Right? But are you actually including them? Just because you're giving them space to share doesn't mean that they're actually included. The inclusion piece is when people feel genuinely welcome, heard, and understood, they're, they're represented, they're valued. So you can support diversity, you can hire diverse. Teams, but if you're not doing things to actually make sure that those people feel included, valued, and even accommodated. Let's say for example, you're hiring folks that have disabilities and your organization is not set up for someone who is deaf or blind. You're not really practicing inclusion in that way. You, you just have a diverse team, but it doesn't mean that inclusion is being practiced.

Peta: 20:28

Yeah, there's, um, so I used to be a youth worker and we have a similar thing in youth work theory called the Ladder of Participation, about how you involve young people in kind of decision making processes and all the way from having them as tokens kind of sat in the room all the way through to, they're the ones that are making the decisions. And yeah, so if it feels a little bit like, yeah, there different. There are different steps on the ladder. and if you, yeah, if you've just got to the diversity bits, then you've still got a long way to go. Like good start, but carry on climbing.

Crystal: 21:04

Exactly. I and I recently, I, I host, uh, round table discussions around various topics related to socially conscious inclusive values of land leadership. And the most recent conversation that I had, I actually had a co-host with me. Uh, their name is Rex Wild and they're a TGX inclusion expert. And the conversation that we were having was around the difference between being nice and being inclusive. And it's kind of in that. Same vein, you can be really nice to people, but it doesn't mean that your well-intended nice commentary is actually inclusive of their lived experience.

Peta: 21:39

Yeah, no, that's fair. Do you ever go into organizations and, and after having this values conversation, have to tell them that actually the way that they are operating is not inclusive?

Crystal: 21:53

Yes, that was very visceral.

Peta: 21:57

That was, that was very, very ce. Okay. And how does that normally go?

Crystal: 22:07

Well by the, by the time that conversation ends up. One of two things has happened, right? People are either coming to me because something has happened, they've made a mistake or done something that they're like, oh my goodness, I need help. Or they're trying to be proactive and they're coming to me in that way. So if they, if it's coming from the place of, you know, we've, we're coming here because we've already made a mistake. We know those things exist. If there are folks that are coming to me in an effort to be proactive, by the time we get to that conversation, we've already developed this rapport and there is a level of trust where we can have those conversations openly and candidly, and it's not an issue. It can be uncomfortable, but one of the things that I also do early on in our work together is helping to make sure that folks have tools to manage discomfort because it's inevitable that it's gonna arise.

Peta: 23:12

Yeah. No, that's so true. I wonder, can you share some of those tools with us?

Crystal: 23:18

Yeah, so I mean, there not, I can't say that it's earth shake, earth shaking, ground. Groundbreaking. Groundbreaking. Why are words hard today? Um. But, uh, so some of it is, you know, the more simple things. How, how do you connect to yourself? Whether it's things like journaling, uh, if you are someone who has a movement practice, if, if, you know, music, dancing, serenade, things like that are helpful. It's really meeting people where they are and understanding how they connect to themselves to find a sense of grounding, calming their nervous system, things like that. And then. I will bring in some somatic practices to offer folks if they haven't done anything like, you know, breathing exercises, grounding meditation, I'll, I'll support them in that. But it's really helping to make sure that they have a short list of things that they can access when they feel uncomfortable, um, when they notice that their nervous system is, you know, coming outside of their regular window of operation. So that when it comes up, they can recognize it and, you know, acknowledge I feel uncomfortable. This is why. And you know, this is the list of things that will help me reground so that I can continue moving through this conversation so that I can continue moving through this work.

Peta: 24:43

Yeah, no, that's really helpful. I have a post-it note on my, ring light that says Discomfort won't kill me. Um, because I think in west, in Western society particularly, we are so trained to run away from. Tough feelings and tough conversations. We are not practiced in sitting in those feelings and working out what to do with them, which just makes it all the easier to push away those, those hard decisions, those hard conversations, um, work through them and get out the other side and, and kind of make some kind of progress.

Crystal: 25:23

Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think it's, it's really sad that we are conditioned to shy away from any sort of discomfort. I, I feel like if. More people were able to sit in the discomfort and move through it rather than pushing it away. It could be so beneficial because I find that there is a lot of productivity in exploring. The discomfort. I, I'll tell my clients it's, it's not, uh uh, something that's saying, okay, you're uncomfortable. Stop the work. It's actually an invitation to get curious.

Peta: 26:02

Yeah. No, that's so true. and yeah, we miss out on all the learning. We miss out on all the The opportunity that's there. Um, speaking of discomfort, working in the field that you are working in right now, um, in America at the moment, has that been a particularly uncomfortable place to kind of be.

Crystal: 26:25

For me or just generally speaking.

Peta: 26:28

for, for you and the work that you are kind of doing with clients and, and how you're talking about it, um, in like when you are online or, when you're marketing your business.

Crystal: 26:40

The short answer is yes. It, it has been uncomfortable for a myriad of reasons. Uh, one being work has been a little bit slower because people are shying away. Uh. It's also uncomfortable from the perspective of someone. I mean, this is, this is work that I, I'm deeply committed to it, and I know that I'm good at it. I, I, I've worked with a lot of people who affirm that, and so it's disheartening to see. The shift in, in, in the climate. It's, it, it's that level of discomfort. It's, it there, there's a honestly, a, at a fair amount of grief around what I and my colleagues have been witnessing in terms of the climate around DEI in general, and. It's interesting because I still have clients that I'm working with who are committed, and that gives, it gives me a level of optimism and hope. You know, there are still people out there who care. They, you know, and so the majority of the discomfort that I feel is because I'm holding multiple opposing emotions and experiences, and it feels like a lot to hold. My therapist is on call.

Peta: 28:14

I think that should be the case for most people. But yes, I think that's a very, very important thing to have lined up.

Crystal: 28:22

Yeah. I even actually when, when I'm working with clients, one of the things, because I'm very clear about my scope of practice and sometimes things will come up where I do have to have that line of. I hear you. I see you. And that is outside of my scope. It's something for a therapist. And I do advise that folks have a therapist while we work together. Some do, some don't. But I, I something that I advise because, um, there, there are things that I am just not trained to, to deal with. You know, sometimes people will share traumas with me and it's not my scope of practice. So I have to be really mindful of that too.

Peta: 29:02

Yes. Yeah. For your own wellbeing especially. Um, that's really interesting. So I think partly because of, of my background in youth work and kind of counseling and mentoring, I do often get clients telling me that. Brand discovery sessions feel like therapy and I laugh and kind of laugh it off, but actually, yeah, there is, there is definitely a limit. Like you are working with people's, like especially you working with people's core values and um, and I would imagine they tell you stories about where those core values come from and kind of how they arrived in that place and that can be really valuable for the work you're doing. But yeah, they're finding that. Finding that line between, um, yes, this is really helpful for what we're doing and I am not. Your therapist is, yeah. Must.

Crystal: 29:50

Yeah. Yeah, I, yeah, I definitely had those moments where I've had to draw that line.

Peta: 29:59

That's really cool. Okay. Thank you. Um, for, yeah, I know that, that there is a lot going on in this, in America right now, and, and talking about it is not the, it's sometimes not the easiest thing to do in the world. And, but I, I think that the more, the more we recognize how what go, what is going on in the political arena affects people who are. Living their everyday lives, running their businesses, doing things that they Yeah. That you wouldn't necessarily think are connected to politics. The more you recognize that there is a connection, the more we can be com more comfortable having those conversations and feeling like we can be part of them, without having those Barriers between what is politics and Yeah, and what is life, I think, which is one of the reasons why I started this podcast in the first place.

Crystal: 30:50

Yeah. And here. Here's the, the, the truth that I recognize, uh, is that having a business is political. It is. If we consider on a larger scale, the large corporations that pay lobbyists to, uh, you know, influence legislation that's political on a smaller scale, small businesses who really do want to continue to be mission driven and values aligned, and folks that have businesses that. Speak out on social issues. I mean, that's, that's political. Most of the small business owners that I know either left corporate or never went into it because of what they saw, you know, just the, quite frankly, soul sucking nature that it can have. Um, and people start businesses more often than not because they recognize the lack of humanity in big business. That's political.

Peta: 32:04

Yeah. And having your, yeah, having your own business and, and being able to, to say those things without, yeah. Having to run them past legal is, um, yeah. Is, is a freeing experience.

Crystal: 32:15

Yeah. And, and making that choice is, you know, defecting from the systems, the systems that we're expected to, you know, fall into and operate in.

Peta: 32:26

No, that's so true. Um, and so you mentioned at the beginning some of the ways that you help, that you help business owners and, and the brands that you work with. So for people who are listening, who are kind of running their own businesses or working with them, and. They tend to be people who have a social conscience that is part of their business. how could they reach out to you for support?

Crystal: 32:52

The easiest way to find me right now is through my website, crystal lilly.co, and that's C-R-Y-S-T-A-L at C-Y-S-T-A-L-L-I-L y.co.

Peta: 33:06

Excellent. I will pop that in the show notes if you're not Yeah. If people listening aren't very good at spelling.

Crystal: 33:12

Yeah, yeah. All, all of the information is there. Um, and you, you know, I, my book is available for purchase on my website. There are resources that are there, you know, to meet people where they are, and you can always reach out to me.

Peta: 33:26

Mm-hmm. No, that's excellent. thank you very much. Um, um, people need to go and yeah, I would definitely go and find you on your website, on LinkedIn, online, all those places. Um, your book is currently winging its way to me, so I'm very excited to get to read it properly. Um, so yeah. Thank you so much and this has been, an amazing conversation. It's been really, really interesting. thank you so much for being so open and honest and yeah, sharing about the amazing work that you do, with the brands that you work with.

Crystal: 33:56

Thank you so much, pita. I appreciate the conversation.