The Success Of All-Star Veterinary Clinic w/ Dr. Emily King

Welcome to another episode of Questions With Crocker! This episode is a special one... while attending the Western Veterinary Conference this year Shane and I interviewed multiple veterinarians for future podcast episodes. The first episode in this series is with the one and only Dr. Emily King from All-Star Veterinary Clinic. The three of us discuss if Shane could beat Dr. King at golf, Dr. King's hiring process, why Dr. King sold All-Star, and more.

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TIMESTAMPS
Intro 00:00
Would Dr. King Or Shane Win At Golf? 02:39 
Dr. King's Surgery Suite Music 04:53
How Did Dr. King Work With Her Husband For So Long? 07:25
An Employee's Impact On All-Star's Success 10:00
Dr. King's Bad Ideas 11:58
Shane Doesn't Want Dr. Crocker Being A Bottleneck 13:22
How Dr. King Handles Situations She Would've Done Differently 14:12
All-Star's Core Values 15:16
Why All-Star Started Using Social Media 15:58
Using Social Media Has Improved Employee Retention 17:48
Veterinarians Have A Hard Time Using Social Media As A Marketing Tool 19:08
Dr. King's Hiring Process 21:44
Dr. King Sold All-Star Veterinary Clinic 25:48
All-Star Can Function Without Dr. King 32:00
Did Dr. King Ever Consider Other All-Star Locations? 32:46
Outro 34:50

Transcript

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[MUSIC] Welcome back to another episode of Questions with Crocker with me, Dr. Crocker, my husband Shane and you're here. Don't talk in the top of the microphone, that's literally what he just told us.>> I see get it close to my face.>> Stop trying to get fired from this podcast.>> We are here with Dr. Emily King. Thank you for joining us.>> Thank you, very excited to be here.>> If you're watching on YouTube, we're actually in a completely different setup. We are in a hotel room which is not as creepy as it sounds.>> It does sound kind of sketchy.>> It does sound kind of sketchy.>> We are at Western Veterinary Conference in Vegas. I thought it would be great to interview people in person because it's just so much better to see them interact. We had a great dinner the other night. I'm really excited to pick your brain as a fellow practice owner, mom veterinarian doing a million different things a podcast included. Is it weird, not hosting?>> Yes, it's very strange.>> At some point, you're going to like grab the mic.>> I know exactly.>> I just think you're over.>> All right, now to my question.>> That's what it is.>> It's strange being on the other side of the fence.>> You do a lot of really fun things. Tell us a little bit about your podcast.>> The podcast is called the Veterinary Roundtable. I do it with another associate that's at the clinic that we work at and then two people, two staff members that are there as well. We go through cases, we do some ice breakers just having try to be back some fun to the veterinary community. We approach questions coming from different people in the industry, maybe challenges that they're faced with, different information that they want to learn about. We answer those questions and give them a shout out.>> I love how inclusive it is. I love that it's veterinarians and assistants and it's technicians. You get all the different perspectives, which I think is great. I have Shane on here to give us a lot of perspective.>> He does something. But he is really good about bringing that non-venernary perspective, which I think sometimes we forget about when we're in our bubble, about how things come across sometimes or maybe the pet owner perspective, which we don't always like to think about because it's easier to think about our needs in our once. I like having all the thoughts, but especially when you get Devon on there and y'all are talking about making her do crazy things for reviews.>> Yes, yes.>> They're good sports, that's for sure.>> Yes, they are. I think that lends itself to your culture, which we're going to get into. Using social media, using podcasts to show that you actually have fun together as a clinic is really, really important in showing that. And that it doesn't have to be this idea of professionalism that I think a lot of us have had. So that's a whole nother route that I really wasn't even going to go down, but just wanted to give you kudos while I had a chance.>> Well, thank you. I appreciate that. They work really hard at that every day. So I came up with some questions. Our podcast is based around questions that people submit to us. And I felt like you and I were very similar. And so a lot of the questions I get, I kind of wanted to pick your brain about too. But icebreakers are always a good thing to start with. So I heard you're a little bit of a golfer.>> Yes. >> Shane is a little bit of a golfer. So I just want you guys to like, if you played each other, who do we think would win? What are your->> Yeah, me too. I want to know, are we hitting longest ball? Or how's it going to work? Do we have details on the->> Straight up playing, you both can see off from the same tee, I guess. Is that in my perspective?>> No, no, because then he gets to tee off of the women's tee.>> Sorry, okay.>> He gets to tee off of the professional tee.>> He's at the very back.>> The white tee's maybe->> Which one? I can't remember.>> Okay.>> So I want to know in general, like, do y'all know, is it the handicap? Is that- am I saying that right?>> I have a handicap, yes.>> I do not. I do not play often enough to have figured that out.>> Okay, so potentially you could beat her.>> Yes.>> If we're playing how many golf balls we lost, I'll win that.>> Okay. >> Every time.>> I don't know. I'm pretty good at losing the balls too. And I'm at the point now where I play with- I'll play with bad balls so that I don't have to go find them.>> So you just lose them?>> Yeah. >> You're just expected?>> Exactly. >> I like that philosophy.>> Yes. >> So are you more like, I go to just have fun and get exercise, but it's not super intense?>> Correct.>> Okay. >> Yeah, because, you know, with the boys, it's something good to be able to do- My dad taught me how to play golf when I was like seven. So, and being busy in, you know, over the past, however many years, 26 years, however long. I mean, I just haven't had an opportunity to just like play and play and play and play. But learning so young was really helpful because I didn't have any bad habits. So I can pick up a club now and go out and swing and hit and, you know, and do just fine. My short game is not the best because that takes a lot of practice.>> I, um, I learned how to play golf from my dad. And he was like the ultimate networker. So that's definitely where I got it from. But he used to tell me, you don't want to be one of those girls that just like rides in the car. Like, you want to be able to play.>> Right. >> And that has actually served me so well in life. Like, because I can go to network events, I can go to things and I'll be like, yeah, I can play. And they're like, what?>> What?>> Yeah.>> And like, this is like, I mean, at this point in time, a lot of women play golf. It should be shocking.>> Right. It shouldn't be, right, exactly. It shouldn't be that much of a surprise.>> But it is nice and even for us, it's nice for us to go and Shane actually takes our kids. Which is always interesting.>> That is very interesting.>> But you basically don't play then at that point.>> We take the kids, right?>> Just make it sure nobody dies.>> Right, right. Exactly.>> Nobody comes like any other ball. See, but it's going to serve us well that you take our daughter to play golf and then look what she could go up to do.>> Yeah.>> And be like, practice owner, independent woman extraordinaire.>> That's true.>> You never know.>> We'll take it.>> All right, I like it. So we're all going to have to play sometime in the future.>> Yeah, so I would love that.>> I think that'd be fun. I think I could win, but that's okay.>> You probably get no lack of confidence.>> No.>> I'll let you have that one. That's fine.>> Okay, my next question is, what is your surgery sweet music of choice?>> Oh, wow.>> Okay, well see, okay, you're talking my language now because I have the saying that music is magic. So I love music and music I think can change an environment. So it depends on what I'm trying to accomplish in surgery.>> I feel that.>> So if I'm doing orthopedics, I'm, it's a lot of hall and oats. I really like hall.>> You got to give us a little example.>> Oh, yeah.>> I don't know if I can, no, that's pressure. I don't know if I can come up with like something off the top of my head. So yeah.>> All the millennials are going to like, are they?>> 80s, 80s, James totally, and the girls all, and they're like, here we go. And so, yeah, Spotify, hall notes, that's always awesome during orthopedics. And then if I have to really concentrate where I don't want to be disturbed kind of a thing, then I'm going with like, island jams.>> Okay, just like kind of peaceful.>> Yeah.>> I like it.>> Yeah.>> I like it.>> What about you? What do you listen to?>> So I actually have two things I do for surgery. I have different scrub caps. So I have like a cat one. I have a dog one, and those are my basic. But then when it's a hard surgery, I have a dinosaur one.>> Okay.>> So when it's like going to be that like intense surgery, I'm going to put the dinosaur one.>> Put the dinosaur, yeah.>> And the team knows like, this is it.>> I'm a little nervous about this one. I need my like super easy.>> This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.>> It is, no, it's true. It's like, there's psychology behind this.>> Is it?>> Like, so I think your brain goes to a different place.>> Like a rally cap or something.>> Yes, there you go.>> Rallion for the pet, saving the pet.>> Exactly.>> Didn't you, you played baseball, Graham? You had to have some weird superstitions that you did that->> Yeah, it's playing baseball.>> How is that different than saving lives?>> It's much different than saving lives yet.>> I'm just trying to strike out.>> Agreed to disagree.>> Yeah, I was going to say, we'll discuss that further later. But music wise, I actually, I let my team pick a lot of times.>> Yeah, okay.>> Because I feel like when the person running anesthesia is happy, then everything goes better.>> Have you ever seen the study, the research study that says something about noise in the surgery suite and it's related to infection?>> No.>> Yes, it totally threw me for like a loop because I was like, you've got to be kidding me because I love music in the surgery room. And so I don't think it's just music. I think it's like basically->> All the noises.>> Yes, like commotion.>> Okay.>> Because then maybe people aren't paying attention. And so then you have higher risk stuff happening and everything.>> I mean, I hope that's the case because I would be so bored if we didn't have music in surgery. I do have one employee who's a swifty.>> Oh, yeah.>> And so occasionally we have to like->> Play one of those.>> Play one of those.>> Play one of those.>> Play one of those.>> Expectations of how much tailorswift will be happening in the surgery suite. But other than that, and she also didn't know who Garth Brooks was, which->> No, George straight.>> George straight.>> George straight.>> Okay, well that's equally bad probably.>> I mean, I had to rethink my interview technique. I was like, I gotta add that to a question. Do you know who George straight is? Can you name it?>> Probably some HR compliance that you can't ask that.>> Maybe.>> But you're HR and we're married.>> No, I'm not HR. I give that title up. I'm not.>> That's totally fine. We can go on through that.>> I'm just fine.>> We can go on through that.>> Okay, so that actually leads me into my first question. Because we own a practice. It's only been almost two years. Shane helps me immensely with the finance side of things. He's definitely not HR. But you own your practice with your husband.>> Yes, we did.>> Tell me a little bit about that because one of the top questions I get is how do you work together as a family? In this room, your son is in here too.>> Correct.>> He is the owner of King Media, amazing social media production company. So you guys work together. You work with your husband. How did you make it work all those years?>> That's a great question because that is something that people often ask. And especially people that are interviewing at the practice. Because there's a lot of cray cray out there. Like family crazy out there.>> Yes.>> For whatever reason, veterinary clinics allow family crazy into their veterinary clinics. And it's like, why? So I get why people ask about it. I can't imagine not having worked with Richie. He was so wonderful at allowing me to be what I needed to be in order for the clinic to be successful. So we were really good about mostly because I'm lazy. Really good about staying in our lanes. So I wanted nothing to do with the money. I just wanted to know where and when I could spend it.>> Talk about that one more time. You staying your swim lane at all times?>> Excuse me.>> Excuse me.>> I'm just going to be obvious.>> Yes.>> Just recapping.>> But did you also hear he also told her when they could spend money very similar?>> I've never heard anything about money yet.>> Very similar.>> Yes. So I was really good. An aunt still really good at spending money. So that's yeah, exactly. So he was always really good about, we really need this piece of equipment. So the joke of the clinic is, what's the ROI on the piece of equipment? So we'd have to go through and figure out. So we started coming to him with just the ROI. Like eventually we were like, all right, here's the ROI on this piece of equipment.>> Wait, let me take my trick. So I wanted to do a microscope.>> Okay.>> And I took him to a conference and I took him over and I'm like, this microscope is amazing. It's like $15,000 and he's like, and I'm like, you know, but there might be other options, you know, and I'd already scoped him all out, right? So then we go to another booth and I'm like, there's this one and it would probably work pretty well. And it's like 1600 and he's like, yeah, that's the one. And I'm like, yes, yes, I've used that technique before. Good job. Yes.>> Yeah, oversell so you can get the thing out.>> Yes.>> Yeah.>> That's like, this is great.>> This is good technique.>> After 17 years, this is not a trick. I feel like I'm playing you.>> [LAUGH]>> I know that just wipe this away because it's a cheaper one's coming.>> Oh.>> Okay.>> Okay.>> That hurts my heart.>> I'm just saying.>> I thought I was no.>> [LAUGH]>> Okay, so you guys each did in your swim lanes.>> Yep.>> And you obviously kind of defined what those were going to be from the beginning. I'm sure along the way, there was moments where you each had to remind each other.>> Oh, absolutely.>> Of what was happening.>> Yeah.>> But ultimately you had the same goals, the same vision.>> Yes.>> And I agree with you, I could not do this without him. Was there anybody else instrumental to the team in the beginning? Like leadership wise or that you brought on board that helped kind of make it happen?>> Yeah, I had a technician that started when she graduated from Purdue University, her name was Caleb Bittles. And she started and then evolved into a practice management role. And she had a lot of grace with me from the standpoint of kept pushing me to evolve. And sometimes you're so busy being a veterinarian. And I think that was one of the things that we made sure that we did from the very beginning was we tried not to wear too many hats. And I think veterinarians are really just, they just dig their heels in. They want to wear five hats. And again, because of my laziness, I was like, no, really only how I'm wearing is just veterinary medicine. That's all I'm doing. Don't ask me to do anything else because I didn't think I would be very good at it, but I could be really good at veterinary medicine. And so she came along and really pushed us and pushed us being gold-driven. And really got us into a program called BGP. And which was about setting goals and tracking those. And just the evolution of the practice. And that really transformed everything. Just I remember to this day I can even remember when she was like, listen, we really need to do this. And I was like, this is going to be so much fun. And I was like, you know, she just wouldn't let up about it. And so then I was like, all right, let's do it. And that saying yes, transformed the whole practice. I love that. Well, I think being a leader and actually just having the open communication is so important. Because, you know, the top down leadership of like you come up with the ideas, you tell everybody they implement them. That is so not how things are done anymore. So even the fact that she could come to you and say like, we really need to do this. This is important and like keep pushing you on it and not feel like I can't give ideas. I can't be a part of the process is a testament to having a good culture in general in a practice. I feel like sometimes I'm maybe too transparent as a leader with like what's going on and the things I'm considering. But every single time I bring the rest of the team into a conversation with, I'm thinking about doing this. What do you guys think? They always have something that's great to add to what I should be considering how we should implement something because I have definitely been the person that's like, we're going to do this. And then I just put it in place and it makes everyone's lives harder. Yeah. Like every single person. And I thought it was going to be the best thing ever. Yeah. Yes. So has there been anything like that along the way that was like really bad ideas that you had or things that didn't work out well? Oh, I'm sure there are many of them. I've chosen to let those fall out in the end. Yeah. And only one. No, I mean, I'm sure there's ideas that we've implemented. And then I think the biggest thing really is being able to pivot, right? I mean, so I don't think it's necessarily that ideas are bad or decisions that you make necessarily are bad as much as what do you do then when you've implemented something that you think is not of the best policy or the best procedure or the best idea. You know, the goal would be then to pivot. And so I think that's really important. But you touched on something that I think is so valuable that not enough people do in their practices, which is asking for that meaning from different people because I think there's a concept of, you know, if everybody can put their ideas into the pool of meaning, then you're more likely to come up with the best idea. Ultimately, you're left with the indecision, right? I mean, you're the practice owner. So, you know, it falls at your feet. You're going to be the ones that eventually have to make the decision. But you're going to make a better decision if you, if everybody feels comfortable putting in to the pool of meaning. And so I think it's so, so valuable. It is. And in general, sometimes the things that they say are not things I want to hear or not things I want to consider. But the different perspectives make it make a team so much stronger and so much better. Which is great. Do you feel like you always tell me to not make all the decisions because I don't want to be bottleneck? A bottleneck. Will you explain that philosophy a little bit more? And do I do a good job? Yes. Absolutely. I'm asking for feedback. There is no other way from answering that question. Right. Be careful there. Okay. No, I think that the main thing is being able to run a practice that has its own living, breathing entity, if you will. Uh-huh. So the ability for the practice to grow, succeed, continue to do better without you being the sole decision maker at all that, you know, on every decision. I think it adds a lot of value to the practice and it creates a culture where you can grow. People have responsibility and you're not limited to the success of you being there at all times. Well, I think the further you can push the system make, oh my gosh, I can't talk. Decision making down the chain, the more successful you're going to be. Oh, okay. So I think that's a really important concept. Absolutely. Have you, so what I've struggled with as a practice owner is I try to do that. And then maybe there's something that happens and it's not handled the way I would have handled. Or maybe it's a little bit messier because of how it was handled. But the team feels good about it. So how do you just kind of sit back and say like, okay, that happened? Or do you? That's not. Do you coach to like pay this time? Well, I think that I'd prefer this. So like we talk a lot about our core values. So like all of our decision making, hiring, firing, and then, you know, your average everyday decision occurs around the core values. So then it's really easy to go have a conversation with somebody and say they do something that you didn't agree with. I don't know. They gave away whatever. Something. But they made the decision. If they can always, so what I coach them to do is if they can always relate the decision back to the core value, then they did not make a bad decision. If I wanted them to make a slightly different decision, even though it wasn't necessarily bad, but I'm like, maybe next time do this instead. Yeah. Then I say, you know, maybe next time, you know, think about this, this, this, and this when before you make the decision, which might allow you to make an even better decision than you made today. I like that. So it's still positive reinforcement, but also a little coaching in a way. Are you, do you have core values like written out or do you have a phrase or do you have something you say like we it's corny, but I would always say like having fun while helping pets, which is like a very just like how we in general want it to feel at the practice. Sure. Yeah. So do you have something like that? Well, we have our core values are all star. So it's an acronym all star. So accommodating, loyal, loving, skilled, timely, atmosphere, and reliable. That's very cool. So, you know, our phrase is, we improve the lives of others. We just so happen to use the vehicle veterinary medicine to do so. So the objective, everyone knows their objective every day really is to just improve the life of the person in front of them. Could be a drug rep, could be a client, could be your fellow worker. But if that's what's on the top of your mind every day, then you're going to be successful. I love that. And I do. So speaking of all star veterinary clinic, very successful social media account. That's how you originally discovered you. And then you have your own doctor Emily King account. But tell me a little bit about deciding to showcase your practice on social media because there's a lot of practice. And how long you been doing that as well? Yeah. And doing it successfully because there's a lot of practice out there. Are you afraid? Yeah. Scared to do it. Yeah. Like they're scared to kind of pull back the curtain show their personalities. They're worried about like pet owners getting upset about things or, you know, people thinking they're silly and you guys are silly, but you have a good time. And my understanding is it's helped you a lot with hiring and in general. So tell me a little bit about the thought process of starting that. Well, we could see the value and use because Richie again was the one going, okay, marketing, traditional marketing is kind of going the way of the dodo. So like, what can we do and so he was trying to do it and God bless his heart. I mean, it was okay. I mean, for the time, you know, it wasn't. It wasn't swim lane. No. And so then he was like, Hey, Harrison, you know, can you help me with this camera? Can you help me videotape this or that? And so then Harrison came on board and actually pitched a business plan to us. So he, and I never thought any of the boys would work in the practice. So that was really cool. Because you have how many boys? Five boys. Oh my gosh. I can't even imagine. Yeah. Two kids like that's a solid four too many. Yeah. Two. You can't say that. Okay. No, that's good. The boys are great. So he pitched a business plan and said, Hey, I think that we can, if I come in and I do this, I think that this will be the effect. I think this is the difference that we can make. And so then we were like, okay, let's try it. And so then he came on board and it took off from there. The first objective really was that he came up with was that he wanted people to know us before they knew us. We thought that would be really valuable because one of the things of entering medicine is establishing trust in relationships. And so then really you've already conquered that hurdle before the person ever comes in. And so that was really big for us. So and then we had some secondary effects that occurred due to social media. So like you mentioned like finding people, we have like no problem with hiring. Do you think it helps with retention also? Like do you think there's some people that enjoy it and it's, it's a part of their job that makes them want to be there? Oh, absolutely. I think that that's, that was another effect that we saw was that it was, our job is like so stressful and there's like so much, I don't know about you, but like people have anxiety and like all these things. And I'm just going to put this out there like I am not the most empathetic sometimes with things. And so I have a hard time. That's what's going to make you a good practice on our day too. It's like sometimes I'm like, okay, I can't talk about this anymore. And so I would much rather people blow off, name having fun, laughing, making videos together and just, so there's a group of them that really enjoy it and they look forward to it and he'll put out a group me text and say, who wants to be in this video and then people are like, I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll do it. You know, it's a lot of the same people, but that's how they like spending their time or that's how, you know, where they find joy. What's interesting to me is it's a designated person. So a lot of times I'll give talks about social media and you know, the veteran and I'll be like, I don't have time for that. I'm don't like you aren't the person that should be doing it. You should hire somebody who is good at it, someone who you're paying appropriately and then really the advantages are endless. I mean, to hire somebody to help you find veterinarians and pay a recruiter is extravagant. Yeah. And then the bonuses nowadays, yes. Yeah. We can't even talk about that. Yeah. But instead, if you are intentional about hiring somebody who actually knows what they're doing on social media and can showcase what you're already doing in your practice, I mean, the content is endless. To me, it's a no-brainer. Why do you think so many people in veterinary medicine still have such a hard time with social media as a marketing tool in general? Well, I mean, veterinarians in general are slow to change, right? So I mean, it's like, so slow. So I think that's a factor. I think that you brought up the point of them not wanting to be like judged. And you really have to, what I did with Harrison was I participated, but I don't watch any of the comments. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't do any, I just never did any of that because I kind of knew what my focus was, which was just to keep practicing good veterinary medicine every day, just keep doing what you're doing, you know, kind of the thing. And so maybe they, maybe they're worried about what clients are going to think or not think. And you really, you know, he says all the time, like, you just can't worry about what people think. You know, it's easy for you to say, you know, you're not there. You know, but it is, it can be, you know, yeah, just I was listening to a book today and that they were saying, stop focusing on you. So you can focus on them. And that's just kind of what we've actually heard that from a couple of veterinarians that they don't mind putting everything out there, but they don't want to read comments. They don't want to see what's going on behind the scenes. So they have somebody replying and doing that stuff on their behalf. Yeah. And that's what Harrison did for still does for all this time. Yeah. And that's what it does help. So to your point, the veterinarian should not be doing it. No, I agree. They should be staying here and say this. I'm in anomaly just because I already am doing it. But then I also don't work in the practice full time. I own the practice. I run the practice. I manage it. So one of my jobs is marketing for the practice. And I am, I think quicker out of the most because I've just been doing social media a little bit longer. So it's a little different in my case, but a majority of the time they should not be the one staying in it. And they probably have someone already in their practice who could at least start it and do a good job. And then if they really want to do well and they count I see doing great on social media, have hired somebody from the outside that that is what they do. They really need to meet, you know, I mean, they really need to meet the consumer where they're at. I mean, they're consuming people are not consuming information, you know, in print or on TV or it's all this vertical videos. And so you're consuming. And it's cheaper marketing. Yeah. You know, putting ads on TV on the radio, like even then printing things and like to me, social media marketing, you have the best ROI, right? From the work you put into it. So it's a no brainer, but I think if people, you know, we're going and looking at accounts like all sorts of ethnic, they see it. Like you can actually see it. Well, I think that people also go to all star and then like, we could never do that. Well, that's not, you don't need to do what we're doing. Right. And be authentic to yourself. Yeah. You know, I mean, because not everybody's going to be quirky and weird and silly like we are, you know, you might be more serious or, you know, and so I think staying true to yourself is really, really important. And just start. Mm-hmm. That's the case for anything, right? Just start and then it'll evolve. Yes. But to just sit there and be like, I don't know what I'm going to do. So I'm not going to do anything. I don't think that's. And you're getting so far behind the train now that it's just. Yeah. You're not going to do anything for you. So, okay, so with, with hiring in general, what is your, it walked me through your steps of hiring people? I know you said, um, obviously you have people that want to come work with you. And I have the same thing. And I actually have people that want to work with me that potentially, I don't think fit my culture or fit. So what is your protocol when you're in the hiring process? What does that? I removed myself from the hiring process. Well, what is that? I love that. Because I was really bad at it because I am a, why are you bad at it? Because I, I see the best in every single person. So like, I'm like, oh, well, you know, you might not have worked out at your last job, but if you're an off-star, like with all nice people and like, oh, train you. Just a poor, a train you. Excellent. And then it's like, no, that was bad. Everyone's like, yeah, why did you hire that person? So like, I am just very, so I, I realized that about myself. Again, you know, being, you know, selfish and lazy and all those things saying, okay, yeah, no, that's not. I'm not good at this. I can probably give you a read like a first impression on someone like a client will like that person, you know, kind of saying. I help them develop the hiring process. So we are large enough now that we have departments. And so we have a leadership team and then leadership team does all the hiring. So are there individual kind of areas along with the practice manager? Okay. So the head of surgery would hire for their department with then the practice manager as well. So we'll get a resume. 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You've never given us a reason to not trust you. So we trust you. And so then they, the people that weren't involved in the interviews were just like, cool. You know, like just keep us in the loop. You know, like what's going to happen? Who it is? And you know, all that kind of stuff. And so it was a really good experience, which is not what you hear all the time. And you also hear a lot of people not ever telling their employees. Oh, that's, that's, and I get why the corporations want to do that, but at the same time, I'm like, oh my gosh, you're making it twice as hard. Like, people should know before they know that. I mean, like, I can't imagine like being like, I walk in the clinic today and be like, all right, I sold to SVP. Yeah, that's your new boss now. Yeah. How do you feel about that? Like, I mean, it wouldn't, it would have made everything that we had done historically be fake. And that's just not like, I see these people every day. Like I'm going to stay at the practice. I'm going to see them every day. I can't imagine that look on their face. You know, every decision that we made was always in the best interest of the business. So this one was too. And I think that's what they saw. So we didn't have any nobody love nobody. And I asked you earlier, like the transition, do you feel like pet owners knew that you sold and you said like they didn't even know I owned it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I think the goal was that the transition should be such that nobody would even know. There shouldn't, you know, because I went with SVP and they don't change your brand. And they don't know do anything. So there's no reason the client would now. And did they acquire the practice in the real estate or did you own the real stage? No, we did not. We just lease. We have like, how many square feet? I'd say, how do you all do that with that 1000 square feet? Oh, well, 9,000 square feet stands up. Well, and over time, you just kind of accumulate more square foot is the same area. Well, yeah. So it's a kind of like an L shape building. So we just kept saying, when they don't renew, they're like, yeah, go ahead that when they don't renew their lease, you know, kind of a thing. So we just kept expanding this direction. Wow. Yeah. So, um, but yeah, I mean, then SVP's been, you know, the thing with the clinic, the way we ran the clinic and because we were so focused on learning leadership and making decisions and, you know, um, being timely as one of our core values, I mean, we're we're rocking, you know what I mean? And so then anytime you introduce layers, you introduce complexity and with complexity, you know, growth stalls or decision making stalls. And that's where my leadership team felt the most frustration was, oh, God, can they just give us an answer? You know, not that they wouldn't give you the answer. You want it. It was just waiting. Yes. And so now that they've gotten used to that, I think that is, you know, they're over that. And you already had a strong leadership team like at the practice. And I think that makes a difference too on, you know, whether you can kind of continue that or if a completely new leadership team comes on board, that's a big part of it. And I'm a big believer in there's no like perfect corporation. There's no perfect private practice like until there's perfect one of the other. I'm never going to say like everyone has to do this. Everyone has to do that. This is evil. This is perfect. So I'm happy to hear of stories like yours. And I hear these stories. It's just some of the other stories are the ones that are out there. Well, because you know, when all this was going on, these, these corporations, some of them smaller ones are just gobbling up all these practices, right? They don't have any of the backside built out to support any of these practices. Yeah. And so then and that's where you end up with, you know, people being disappointed because it's falling apart. You know, now the practice owner wants to skidattle because, you know, they're done. There's, however old they are. And they're like, okay, this was my exit. And, you know, and so then it just kind of just crumbles around them. And I think that SVP has done a lot of good things and, you know, are running their company very, very well and they're running it very efficiently. They are, they keep the employees number one, you know, in their clients, you know, meaning the pet owners also. And so I think their focus is on the right things, you know, are they the fast, isn't making decisions? Are we frustrated at times? Of course. Yeah. You know, because it's not me doing it, which is, you know, I want to, you know, I mean, like the control is giving up. Yeah. Do you think though did you build your practice where you could be gone tomorrow? That's how it should be. Yeah. I agree. So like what I did was I knew that was going to be the writing on the wall at some point, right? Because again, the evolution of the business. So the company has to be able to run without me there, you know, the success of the company really is, you know, when you're not there, you know, what is everybody doing when you're not there? Yeah. You know, kind of a thing. And so I started inching myself out of a veterinarian role and then I'm just basically a facilitator where, you know, I teach and mentor, you know, the veterinarians coming in. And so when we sold the practice, then it wasn't like, I, I don't need to practice medicine per se. I do come off the bench and people are on vacation. And so then I do veterinary medicine and things like that. But, um, yeah. So it was, it was designed for that purpose. Did you ever consider new locations or is it always just, we'll just add into the veterinarian right? Yeah. You know, all the veterinarians. So we would often talk about that as a group because we have doctor meetings every Monday. And, um, you know, it would come up like, do we want to do a satellite? And they never, they all like working together. Uh-huh. They don't want to be separated. Um, I do think it fragments your focus and your resources, you know, a little bit. And so you add bloat, you know, um, and so, but it was something that we definitely seriously considered. But then I was like, where am I going to spend my time? You know, people want me here. But then, you know, they want me over the, you know, I mean that kind of thing. And so then I was like, ah, it's too much to think about. Yeah. I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. You know, I'm just going to hoard veterinarians here. Just keep that. At 7, 8, 9 East Main Street. What's building? Yeah. I love it. So if people want to learn more from you, because I feel like you've already dropped like a ton of like good little nuggets, like, Shane's like, can I just ask you a million more questions. But if they want to learn more, you now have set up like your own account to kind of spread information to share things, what is the focus of that going to be? Yeah. I mean, I think really, um, practice ownership. I think that's something that I learned a lot about over the past 23 years. How to grow people, um, and then how to, you know, keep people having fun, you know, and keep it interesting and, you know, adding enthusiasm back into our industry, which I think is just, you know, just lacking. Yeah. I really, you know, you feel, I feel bad for people because it is a fun job. It's just that the way they have their process is set up right now. It's not very much fun. Well, and we had dinner the other night, and I think both of us were like, nerding out on just veterinary medicine and ownership. And so it, for me, it's nice to connect with people and just bounce questions off of them. And, you know, likewise, yeah, be able to share. And I feel like you're the type that's like, bring me the questions. Let's talk about things. Oh, I love the questions. Yeah. And learning from one another. So definitely follow Dr. Emily King on social media. If you want to know more of a practice ownership, veterinary medicine, follow all star. If you want to see an amazing veterinary hospital, be entertained. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then follow King Media if you want to connect with somebody for veterinary resources, production, social media help. Harrison has helped us immensely with this podcast. And we are so glad that we found the whole King family. Well, thank you. So we're glad we found you too. Do you have any last things that you want to leave everybody with? Like last tips, tricks, take home message. Oh, gosh. You're used to hosting. This is it. Take home message. I'm the pressure, the pressure. No, I would just say, be your real selves. And you have a lot to offer. Everybody in your community cherishes everything that you do every day. And so I think just remember that. Just remember that you're doing good. You're people love what you're doing. And it's really important. And that human animal bond that you're continuing to protect and develop over time is of such value to people that sometimes they don't even know. But it's something that should be cherished and you're doing a great job. Just keep at it. I love the inspirational message. That's great. All right. You need that for our Dallas Cowboys. I'm just saying. Yeah. This is good. Thank you so much for listening to questions with Cocker. If you want to leave a review on Apple or Spotify, you can definitely do that. We love feedback. We need questions that tell this podcast works. So make sure to reach out to us. And if you have any follow up, you can connect with Dr. Emily King over on social media. What's your name too? Yeah. Thanks and have a good day.(upbeat music)