How To Ensure Better Pay For Your Technicians

Welcome to another episode of Questions With Crocker! This episode Dr. Crocker and Shane discuss clinic renovations, a few different cases, pay transparency, and more.

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TIMESTAMPS
Intro 00:00
Renovation Update 02:14
Dog Bite Case 04:29
Paying Your Technicians Fairly Through Tiers 07:28
Explaining The Different Tiers 09:04
Removing Yourself From The Hiring Process 10:56
Pay Transparency 13:32
What If An Employee Doesn't Meet Certain Expectations? 16:34
How Do You Quantify Personality? 19:24
Shane's Goals For The Practice In 2024 21:20
Outro 25:50

Transcript

0:00

[MUSIC] Welcome back to another episode of Question to the Crocker with your local emergency veterinarian, Dr. Crocker and my husband, Shane. Your local husband.[LAUGH] You are. You didn't say hi this time. Hi.[LAUGH] You could still say hi, but you were going to work on a tag line. Yeah, that was last episode. Oh, okay. Take some on. I need to check in on you and make sure your mental health is okay because Texas decided that there was a curve ball and went from 80 degrees in beautiful and sunny to 40 to 50 degrees and cold windian rainy. And this completely messed up your golf plans this week. I'm going to audit my scores since Christmas. I've been only playing twice. That's sad, that's sad. And I feel like I can tell when you don't play because I don't agree. I think we can all tell. That's your outlet a little bit. That's the way that you decompress mentally. I feel like, what is my outlet? Do I ever decompress mentally? I would say, okay, actually you say that, but I would say it's like time with friends. So I enjoy getting together with girlfriends. I enjoy talking to people. And so for some reason, that fills my cup wall. The reason is I'm an extrovert and you are not the opposite. So being on a golf course by yourself is great. Do you ever show up in like, you're supposed to play by yourself, but then you get put in a group with other people? Not when I play except play mid-morning. All the old guys are already done and most people are at work. There's got to be some great interactions out there though. Probably. Just no interest. No interest in talking to people. We have two courses so I can pod the empty spot. Some buyers though. We are so opposite. Like, that's just shocking sometimes. Okay, so if you were new to the podcast, questions with Crocker is about questions that we get from people in the veterinary community or pet owners. I am an emergency vet, but we own a small animal general practice together also. So we talk a lot about practice ownership. We talk about veterinary medicine. We talk about being married and having kids and being a veterinarian and working together and owning a business together. So lots of different things going on. You're safe for the cat to be eating your breakfast. It is probably safe, but I'll hide it down here until we're done real quick. And then the dogs right here. I mean, this is our lives. Very professional podcast action happening right now. But I did want to talk to you a little bit about what's going on this week and this weekend. So we have been continuing a thorough innovation. Can you give everyone an update because you've had some big things happening. If you monitor tweaks to the floor plan, minor tweaks. And we have insulation coming into morrow. And once the insulate, it should be done tomorrow, actually. Pass that inspection and then draw wall, float tape, paint, floors, cabinets, ready to roll. And one of the big issues we've been having that we're hoping to fix with the renovation is we get little rodent critters that visit the building at night. And that's two fold. One, the building's been there for 30, 50 years. Yeah, a long time. And so there's little holes on the metal at the bottom, which we're going to fill and cover with the renovation. But the other thing is they're doing a huge development, I guess, behind our practice and pushing everything out of there. And so they're coming into our building. So we've been trying to like put away anything that they could possibly get into. But now they're chewing on wires, which is just fabulous. Very cheap. Yeah, yeah, not ideal. And so we've gone back and forth on. We had a clinic cap before. And I didn't feel like he actually did his job. I felt like chili was more of a minis than actually helpful. And he is with a foster right now in the renovation because doors are open and things are happening. And we didn't want him to escape or get trapped somewhere. But now you were saying the other day, you think maybe he's doing a better job than we thought. Yeah, again, just going back to the facts of the data. We didn't have a problem now we do. So maybe he was scaring off the rodents a little bit better than we thought. So then the question becomes, should we have a clinic cat again? That's outside of my pig grade. Oh, is that in my swimming? That's above my pig grade. Okay, I think that for me, clinic cats are something that are so cute and clients often love them and they have such personality. However, it is scary because coming from especially like working in the emergency world and you see really bad bite wounds on cats from dogs, you really get worried about a clinic cat, especially one like chili that just got in every pet's face like had no fear that all of a sudden they get snatched off the counter or something. What if we gave our cat a new job? Mr. Bobby is a house cat that likes to be here. He does not want to be a mouse or in the hospital. Has anybody asked him? And he's the best cat ever. So if he ever got bit by a dog under my, you know, purview in the hospital, I would be very, very sad. So we're going back and forth. So if people have strong feelings about yes or no in a clinic cat, I would love to hear it. I'd love to hear good stories. They actually speaking of dog bite wounds, I had a case come into the emergency room the other day and it was a six-month-old black cat like Bobby. So of course, a little sadder than normal, but he'd been attacked by a dog. And the interesting thing was I could only find like two puncture wounds kind of on the side of the stomach. I couldn't find a ton of other wounds and he would walk with his, you know, painful. So we had to give him a little bit of pain meds to assess him. And when I did, there was like a bulge on that side. So there's only two puncture wounds, but there was like a decent bulge on the skin. And I was like, this doesn't feel like it's just swelling from like bleeding or something like that. So we took an x-ray and even though there's only two small puncture wounds on the outside, somehow that had also penetrated like the body wall and the muscle and the contents of the belly were leaking out under the skin. And so it was a big hernia that was developing. And it's kind of like one of those things. It's a small hole. And as things come out, they're, you know, normal size and then it gets tighter and then they start to expand. And so the cat needed emergency surgery. Fortunately, their regular vet was going to open in like two hours. So they were going to go there just because of cost. But it was definitely one of those things that from the outside, you're like, then look that bad. And then a lot of dog bite wounds were like that because they grab and they go deeper than you think and they pull. And so it'll rip more under this skin. So just a piece of advice if you have dog bite wound and you go in and you just think, oh, it's two punctures in the vets. Like we actually need to really make sure this is not just to, you know, more listen to them because it could be something much more serious. I thought only old guys got hernias from looking stuff. Old guys are women that have had babies. But no, no animals will get hernias too. They'll actually get them on their belly, on their imbiliacus where the umbilical cord was attached and kids get that. So you fix that during like a spay or neuter and that straight forward. But some of them will get them like on the sides or down in the inguinal area. And those are a little more serious. But no, no. Yeah. I mean, now you know for your next attack by dog cat situation that you come across, hopefully you never experienced that. That would be our cat and dog. And that would make me really sad. Um, so sorry, that was an an aside, but definitely an interesting case. And the cat will be fine because we joking, veterinary medicine that cats are like the best healers. I once had a cat, especially during these cold seasons that got up in a car engine. The engine went off and the cat just like all the skin on its body pretty much got fried. And so it was getting wound care for like several months and it had like, it was like naked like no skin, nothing on it. We're doing wound care. And that cat within like two months had grown back all its skin like almost all its hair looked like nothing had ever happened. So cats are amazing healers. And there's not many things I wouldn't try to surgically repair on a cat because they will often heal really well. Dogs on the other hand will have like the smallest thing ever. A horse. Yeah. And you'll be like, this is going to go great. And you take it off. And then it's like three weeks of infection and other issues. And I'm like, this is a cat to be fine. You're right. Like a horse because horses also, and I worked on horses always found a way to hurt themselves. And we would joke in some ways that it was job security because you could put them in a plastic bubble. And they would still find a way to injure themselves, which was very, very true. Okay. So all of that aside, all the interesting cases we see in veterinary medicine. I wanted to talk about something that we have gotten quite a lot of questions about. We've mentioned it in other podcasts. And then when we had Dr. Staten on who owned a WVET center, it's a large practice. I think she said what 55 employees are. I don't think her podcast has been released yet. Well, when we talk to her, this is a little sizzler. When we talk to her, we talked about paying everybody. And she does what we do, which is she does technician tears. And so essentially when people come in, you talk about what skills they have. And we have level one, two and three. And then based on the skills, you pay them the pay ranges that they that we have already preset. I like it because it's very transparent. And it makes my job easier in saying, I'm going to pay you based off your skill set, not based off your my friends, kid, or your, you know, a relative or there's some other, I guess, connection. I just think it keeps things a little more fair as much as you can. But it is interesting because with our practice, we had a couple people grandfathered in that don't necessarily fit quite into the tears and the payment that they're getting. And so when you buy an existing practice, I think it's a little harder to institute these policies, but I still think it's important. I would agree. I think that's something that obviously when you get grandfathered in employees, a lot of times is to your best interest to figure out a way to work with those individuals. They know the customers. They know the workflow. A lot of times the kind of the best approach to to make sure everybody's stays stays there. And sometimes it's in a environment where you're actually giving them pay increases because they fit certain areas. Sometimes it is that they, you know, have to increase their skills to get to the par level that they're on. So I don't think that you can not implement something like this because you have existing employees. You just have to find a way to mold it and make it work. And communicate it really, really well to everyone. And the hard thing for me has always been, you know, how do you define the value of someone? And I like having something that's very obvious. So our level one, just to explain a little bit more, our level one is kind of your basic restraint, your basic handling of animals, knowing the basics of, you know, disease processes and how to explain certain things. But it's very, very minimal basic care. Level two, you get a lot more into the actual technical procedures. So a lot more with doing blood draws, the easier ones, doing suture removal, doing basic radiographs. So those skills that you're going to basically tell a technician like, hey, get the stun and you want to be able to like walk away and they can just handle it. And then level three for us is all those things with one and two, but then also adding on some more significant ones. So the big one for me is ultrasound training. So at my last practice, we had people certified in ultrasound, they could do a full abdominal scan and we could submit it to the radiologist. And I didn't have to do anything with that patient. And that's the goal with the levels is to have people who can work at that ability and capacity. It also has things like jug casts, central lines, higher level skills. They don't use this frequently, but it's really, really valuable to have somebody there who can do it. And we also have on their more ER, ER skills, so triaging and being able to stabilize. So something that if I'm in a room and I'm doing something and you know, a critical patient comes in like these texts, no, these are the things I'm going to check. It's in breast-preased stress. Okay, I'm going to do this and they're going to go in oxygen or you know, if it's a puppy that's really weak, I'm going to check a glucose because I know that's important. So it's at higher level thinking that you really want to see in every single person that works in the hospital. But I think having a very defined is great. The problem I have is having all that, but then also having some other things that make an employee valuable. So for me, it's reliability. Showing up every day, it's your attitude. If you have a great attitude, if you are great with clients, if you aren't clicky, if you're just helpful in general, I have a really hard time not wanting to just automatically pay those people more that are almost easier employees to deal with and also better employees overall for the team. So where, how do you look at that and just that can it make sense? Yes, so I think you pay based off a skill set and you hire based off a cultural and personality traits. That's good. So when you're doing through the hiring process, which we've talked to several bets that have removed themselves from that hiring process, and I really, really, really like that. Are you saying you don't want me to be a part of hiring? I think you have great talents that should be used elsewhere. I think I am good at reading people. I'm not disagreeing with that. So I am good at like recognizing someone who their personality would think Peter said, my practice need a lot more other skill sets and characteristics, not another Peter. So sometimes I think we have the tendency to hire based on that motto that birds of feather fly together type thing. So I want to hire people that I like or people that hurt like me, but that may not be with the business needs. A little humbling because I feel like as I think about who I've been looking for and who I want to hire, I definitely am seeking out characteristics that I think are probably strong in me. Which is, which at our level of practice, maybe what we need, right? At this point, we may need another you and then the practice continues to build with the one in the gaps of things we need. But back to my point, I think you hire based off of certain characteristics or culture, but you pay based off of their abilities and skills. Okay. This is my personal opinion. That makes sense. I think you also hire based off of availability. So, you know, what is the hourly need that you have? What days you need? I'll see a lot of people get really excited about somebody, but then when they go over the schedule, they talk about things. It doesn't align with what that person is able to do. And while I like to be flexible in scheduling in a practice, you can only have so many people, you know, working a limited schedule or working limited days or else you're not able to stop your practice appropriately. So, I think that I really, that makes a lot more sense when you say it that way. But culturally, and it doesn't have to be that for me that they're extroverted or they are, I guess, hustler is a negative term nowadays, but it doesn't have to be that they're that way. For me, it's really that they just fit with the rest of the team. So, you know, our personality of our practice, like we always say that we're having fun helping pets. And I really want to maintain that. I want us to be able to have a good time together. You know, we sometimes play jokes on each other. We have a lot of running jokes. And so, those things are important to me to maintain the culture of the practice as a whole. Completely agree. But you're not going to hire that person paying more because you really like how will they play a joke? You would, okay, you would think that. But let's be honest, there's probably businesses that you know of and there's certainly practices I know of where the veterinarian has made a unilateral decision and has hired somebody that they just really, really like and has paid them a ton of money. And that doesn't usually go well. What do you think about pay transparency? So, one of the things that I like about the tiered system is, you know, you can show them and say, these are the tiers and these are the tiers you're in. And everyone kind of has an idea of who's in what tier and what they're getting paid. Do you think that is valuable in a practice for people to have an idea of what each other gets paid or do you think that is a negative? I think it solves a lot of problems. So, when employees have the tendency of sharing what they make, whether they mean to or not. And if you have pay where it's scatter all over the place, that's going to create an environment where you have somebody that is upset because they're not making as much warranted or not. It's just kind of how it happens. So, that person becomes, you know, an employee that doesn't want to be there or doesn't give their all because they don't feel like they're, they're being compensated well. They start looking for other jobs, etc. So, I think this eliminates that piece. It allows people to also have an idea of growth, right? There's no guess of how much am I going to make next year or what I have to do to get a raise. It's black and white. If you go from this skill set to this skill set, you're going to bump up to this next pay level. We have ranges, which gives us a little bit of flexibility based on some of those self skills. I can just as easily say this is a set in stone dollar amount, whether it's a salary or an hourly wage, wage that it's set in stone. And then you continue to move that model as opposed to using ranges, but there are some buy-in heaven, you know, kind of a squeeze down range like we have. Yeah, I like the ranges just because it allows us to bring someone in. And maybe if they are like a one, two, like they don't quite fit in level two, but they're a little more skilled in one, then I can start them out like low level two, but they know the rest of the skills they need to work on. And so, you know, what I did is I printed off all the the lists and then I had I pulled aside each technician and I said, you know, here's a list. This is your I put on there like here's your current paper hour. This is the level you fall in. I really want you to go through this and check off all the skills you feel like you have. And you don't have to give it back to me. I didn't really want it to be like a hate it when it's like you assess yourself and I'll assess you and we'll come together. I don't like those conversations. I think focusing on the future is better than really going over things in the past and hammering on certain things. So I basically said, this is yours. I want you to look at it. I want you to go through it. And that way in your mind, you know the things you need to work on. I already know. I know the things that I want you to get better at. And it's this, this, and this. And I gave each of them like very concrete things that I wanted them to keep growing in. So that expectation is set of what I'm watching for. And some of them were soft skills. So, you know, on some of them, it's, I'd really like you to get this training or keep working on, you know, your anesthesia knowledge, but also, you know, as an employee who has been here a long time, this is what I expect from you. Culturally, this is what I expect from you as a leader. And I think it's important to kind of hit on both those things. But we really focused on their future, what they can improve on. But taking that home, being able to look through it and get an idea of what am I watching for and what I need is important. But I'm, I don't love the idea of fill out a form about yourself and then we'll go over it together. You think we're moving away from that with reviews. And a lot of the feedback I'm getting at conferences is don't worry about things in the past like really focus on sending expectations for the future. But then my question you is what happens if they don't meet those expectations? In this model, they're not growing or progressing. I think it just depends on the need of the the clinic, right? The practice. So as an example, you may have a level one technician that's always a level one technician, right? And you need level one technicians. There's no problem with that. Right. As long as they're satisfied with the pay that they have and they're a good hard worker and culturally they fit. I don't care if that will progress. Right. I think you want to hire people that want to continue to improve and get better and better themselves. But there's no, it's not guaranteed you have to have that. Well, and that has been set a lot, you know, that you in a practice, you actually need a lot of worker bees. You don't need a lot of queen bees that everyone is doing things for that are always trying to get to the top. Like a practice only runs if you have people at each level that are doing each set of skills and are doing them really well in with a great attitude. And so I used to, and this is probably part of what you're talking about with me hiring for people like like me. I used to really think that you wanted people who were driven, who always wanted to grow, who wanted to make a ton more money. You wanted really hungry people. And I think I would have seen more as I've been the profession is you do want people that want to grow, but it's okay to also have people that are comfortable where they are and are really great where they are. I've known Technicians who are amazing Technicians and have great skills and get along really well with everyone. And you know, they've been offered a leadership, ship position to be a tech manager. And really they were self-aware enough to say, I don't want leadership responsibilities. I don't want to be scheduling. I don't want to do conflict resolution. Like that is not what I'm good at. I am good at being here, being on the floor and dealing with people. And that's enough for me. I don't need to keep growing, you know, up vertically in this profession. And so it's important as a leader to know what personalities you're dealing with and why. And I even said to one of the people I talked to yesterday, I said, I know you're financially motivated. So I just need you to let me know if you're feeling okay about where you're at. And if you want to grow financially, that now you know what you need to work on. Because I just know that person. And I know what they want. So you really have to look at it as a leader of what does each team member need to feel valued. And also who is just a rock star where they are. And it's okay if where they are is not where other people want to be and other people want to keep growing because you need all types. I would completely agree. And we're talking specifically about technicians here, the technical staff. But you could just easily plug this model in for your customer service reps, etc. I mean we haven't done that in our practice. But I think that would be something we want to take a look at. You know as a customer service rep, what skills does do you have and how do we tear the pay for these guys as well? Now when I think it might be a little trickier just because there are so many soft skills that go into being a great CSR. And the same thing with with a technician with communication and things like that. But man, if you are upfront, I really think that person that can just talk to anybody and has that bubbly personality has a great memory for people. They may not always be the best person on the computer or the best person with technology. But every single client that walks in the door knows them and wants them to help them. And they feel seen and appreciated by this person. There's a lot of value in that. And so that's the only hard thing for me more so with that position in in levels is how do you quantify personality. And I wanted the best receptionist that I ever worked with her name is Yabi. And she was just a shining sparkling personality and everyone that met her never forgot her. And she actually was somebody that worked at bank and my old boss would always go into that bank. And she just was so welcoming, so funny and just really knew like her job really well. And he just kept saying like, I really want you to work for me. I really want you to come. Like he gets his heat dogs and cats. It'd be so fun. And she's like, Oh, no, no, I work at the bank. And eventually he, you know, stole her from the bank. And she worked for him for years and years and years and years. And she was such an important part of that practice and almost like, you know, a heartbeat of that practice. And so I think personality really does make a big difference at the front desk. And that is just it's just a harder thing to do a level for. But again, I don't think you're doing a level for the personality, right? You hire them because of that great personality. Sure. You give them ability to progress inside of your practice based on skills, right? So do they have a good knowledge of the dental grades, right? So they can schedule those appropriately. Do they understand enough of the the lingo to say, this is an emergency need to come in or they haven't walked to the back and ask you question at your time, right? So I think there's different things that you can do to help increase those skill sets and pay them accordingly. And maybe it's just based off of CE, right? Every year you got to do so much CE and you get this bump, right? I mean, there's a way that you can tear that model and still not have it be a wide range of we like this person. So pay them more. It's get them in the door because of personality. They hit this pay range and they get adjusted based off of these skills. See, this is why you're the logical one because that was great. I mean, that made perfect sense when you laid it out. I think when I think about the skills, it is harder for me to like pull them versus technical skills, but you're absolutely right. There's very specific things that make somebody a good efficient CSR and you can put those on paper pretty easily. So I think that's going to be our next job that we need to work on with all the other. 2025. 2020 or not making 2025 goals. We still have so many goals in 2024. Speaking of that, then we'll wrap it up with what are some of your biggest goals for us in the practice this year? For the practice this year. Getting the door open for the new renovation side. That will then lead to renovations in the old part of the practice. So we're going to have renovations going on for a little while. Get all the renovations behind us. And I'd like to see some pretty significant growth towards the third, fourth quarter, 2024. I agree because my goal would be to grow the team and to grow the team. I need to have growth in the practice as a whole. So definitely want to get the renovation done. So we have more space so that we can do some of the things that I want to do marketing-wise and then also with servicing clients. And I think in the new space with the flow and hopefully client experience that we can give that will be something also that will continue to help us grow. But I very specifically gave you some numbers of the day to show based on our current. And we were doing okay. Employee expense ratios. We were in the range that we need to continue to stay in those ranges. So this is what this is what I was seeing is like, okay, so if my employee expenses this and we need to make this much for this, so we just need to keep doing this. There's some truth to that. So as long as they're both increasing which which they are, as long as they're both increasing, then we're still okay. I completely agree with that. So that's my, we'll see, we'll see how it goes. You can continue to listen if you want to hear how everything goes. Definitely if you're interested in the technician tier model for pay, you can reach out to us. I do, I do want to get, because I feel like I know Dr. Staten mentioned it. The Dr. King mentioned it as well. Do they do a similar model? I don't know that I don't feel like she did mention it. I can't remember now. But I'd like to get their models and bump them up to ours and see if ours can be. See what they are. Modified and adjusted. Yes. We can definitely do that. I also, yes. Hold that belt for another day. Yeah. My, my brain is now like, with things that need to happen. So we're going to go make a list because if I can get it on a piece of paper, then my brain will close down a little bit more. It would also love other feedback from other people that are doing things a little bit different. So I think if you haven't learned anything about our practice is that we're not afraid to trust stuff and pivot as needed. It's a little bit of an experiment while we're doing because we have some ideas and we say all the time like we are not experts. We are learning along the way. We're learning with you if you're a practice owner and we really do like feedback on these things. And honestly, if you're a technician who works in a practice that they have a tiered model and you do or don't like it, I would also like that feedback because I'd love to know why you do or don't like it or what the communication is around it because I think all those things will only make us better as a whole. So overall, I think it's the right direction that we're headed in and now we need to apply it to CSRs. We again are not experts. We are just entrepreneurs and veterinarians. Did you spot another business as of today? We did buy another business today. We have a couple things going on. So speaking of things going on, I am going to TV and made this weekend and then we have some family things and then I'm actually headed to Ross veterinary school. So just want to make sure I throw that out there in case any students from Ross listen to the podcast. I would love to see you. I'll be speaking at the school. I was supposed to go to Ross. I'm pretty sure. So we're going to just a gloss over that and pretend like I'm not going to the beach while you're not going. We've had, we have a lot of trips right around this time. And so there's only so many things that you can go on and you know, cannot go on and make me uncomfortable and like, squiggly my seat. So, but if you'll be a Ross, I would be how to see there. And then I think I'll be a Mississippi state towards the end of the month and I've never been in Mississippi state. So he did get approved to go to school there. I haven't been there as a speaker. That was like 15, 16 years ago. Almost that 2004. It was a long time ago, 2005 or six. Yeah. So that's what in the non five that was 2005. I got it. Don't they? What they're like a catfish? When there's something around catfish like they're they actually, well, I don't know, maybe I don't remember that, but I remember a couple of things. I remember one, you had to dress up to go to class out of there. Like it was like you could not be schleppy. And I'm definitely like schleppy when I go to class. And number two, I don't know if that's a word and I'm using that word correctly. Harris, you might cut that because I don't know if that's, I feel like it might be a playing word. Number one, you had to dress up to go to class and you could not look like a bum. That might not be an appropriate word either. We're trying to get canceled today. You're all questions. I'll try this. Number one, you had to dress up to go to class. And then you also stayed with current students when you went there and interviewed, which is interesting, which was actually great, because you got to like get to know them and the personality in the school was great. And honestly, if I hadn't gotten an A&M, I probably that would have been the school that I would do. I just got into a couple different schools. Oh, don't make me choose. Actually, well, my dad probably, I wish you would have been the one. So anyways, A&M was the one because of the cost. And I already had gone A&M is undergrad. So, but Mississippi State was a good experience interviewing and doing all the things there. So it was fun. All right. If you enjoyed this podcast, if you want to give us feedback, you can leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. We'd love to hear your questions. It's the only way the podcast keeps going. And again, if you want to learn more about the tiered system, reach out to us, you can reach out over at Questions with Crocker on social media. We have Facebook page two. And you can watch this on YouTube. We're not quite awake this morning, but you can see our cat is here with us. And we are just happy to be here and be interacting with the vet men community and learning from one another. So thanks everybody and have a great day.[END PLAYBACK]