The Life Of An Exotics Veterinarian w/ Dr. Sydney Pokard

Welcome to another guest episode of Questions With Crocker! This episode Dr. Pokard spills everything there is to know about being an exotic veterinarian; the challenges, examining different animals, husbandry mistakes, how exotic pets visit the clinic, and more.

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TIMESTAMPS
Intro 00:00
Dr. Pokard Just Bought A Practice 01:54
Understanding How Exotic Pets Visit The Clinic 05:50
The Animals That Dr. Pokard Has Worked With 08:45
How Often Should A Bearded Dragon Be Seen? 10:18
What Dr. Pokard Recommends Feeding Ferrets 13:08
How To Examine A Hedgehog 15:18
Challenges Dealing With Exotic Owners 16:24
Dr. Pokard's Worst Injury 19:20
How Dr. Pokard Became An Exotics Veterinarian 21:12
Do Clients Pay Well For Their Exotics? 25:22
A Day In The Life Of An Exotic Veterinarian 29:44
Husbandry Mistakes With Exotic Pets 32:08
Outro 36:25

Transcript

0:00

[MUSIC] Welcome back to another episode of Questions with Crocker with me, Dr. Crocker. My husband Shane.>> Who is here and super excited.>> Yay! I love that positivity.>> Yes, that's me.>> Thank you for bringing it. And then we have Dr. Sydney with us.>> Hi.>> Do you want me to do your last name? I'm sorry.>> No, that's fine.>> Are you sure?>> Yeah.>> Okay. All right.>> Introduce yourself. Give us your whole name. Tell us where you're from. Give us all the info.>> Okay. Hi. I'm Dr. Sydney Poe Guard. I am from Orange County, Southern California. And I'm an exotic vet. You are an exotic vet. You were a very cool exotic vet. And we met through social media because your pictures and videos are amazing. I love seeing what you're doing. I see exotics very infrequently in the ER and it is a lot in overwhelming. And you make it look...>> We have a lizard because of somebody being an exotic person.>> We have a lizard because your daughter won a one. That's...>> Yeah.>> We have a bearded dragon.>> A bearded dragon.>> They're actually a little different.>> I love that.>> So, I love that. But you do make it seem really fun and you do a lot of educational videos. So that's how I first saw you. And then I met you in person and realized how delightful and wonderful you were.>> Oh my gosh.>> Thank you.>> I was very excited that we are here at Western Veterinary Conference and we get to talk in person.>> Yeah.>> And the way this podcast is set up is we get questions from people on social media and then we ask you about them. I do want to go a little bit into this. We'll probably be out in about three months or so. So do you want to talk at all about some of the plans that you have working?>> I do.>> Yeah. We're good to talk about those.>> Okay.>> Good.>> I didn't want to ask any surprises.>> No, we're good. So Shane and I own a small animal general practice and you are venturing into practice ownership.>> I am surprised.>> Yay.>> And I'll actually be open in about three, four months. So I'm in construction right now for my first startup.>> Exactly.>> I mean, very stressful. Like right before this, I'm like emailing my contractor and my landlord was like, we need this from your contractor and anyways.>> And it's taken a while to get here.>> It is.>> Yes. It's been a long process.>> Yes.>> Probably like two years honestly to get to like this point.>> Because partially you're in California.>> It's very hard to find real estate.>> It's very hard. I mean everything is so much hard.>> It's expensive, it's hard. I actually had another lease space that fell through and then I found the one I'm in now, which in hindsight was like so meant to be. But in the moment it's like, the world is falling apart. But yeah, it's just a really long process. I think everyone, it takes a lot longer than everyone realizes. And I know people say that. But like when you're in it, you're like, the permits, this requirement, that requirement, the insurance, all of it, it takes so long.>> Can you say that one more time that takes a long time is really difficult to do?>> So somebody will buy into this?>> I know that you were doing your best to get the renovation done as quickly as possible. But my job is to be a motivating factor and encouragement. So that's all I do.>> You're a very good encourager.>> I'm not impatient at all. But really it is hard and it is a huge investment, like emotionally, financially, everything. So why do you want to be a practice owner so much? Why is this so important you need to go through all this? Because I want to change that, Med. That's like, and I know I'm not going to change the whole profession or anything like that, but maybe one step at a time. I have seen a good amount of things in my career so far as a mixotic set. And things that I don't like, things that I maybe don't align with how I want to practice medicine. I just want to do something different. I want to do something that it's not necessarily something that's never been seen before. You work in a hospital that is similar to what I'm doing in an open concept way, working with exotics. But I just want to push the boundaries a little bit, not be within this box. And I think a lot of people in the industry have told about my vision and half of them are supporters, like you and half of them have been like, yeah, that might not work or I wouldn't do that. I don't really think that'll work for you. So those are just people I don't have on my team right now. Yeah. And I do think trying to explain something is different than experiencing it. Yeah. So a lot of times in my case with the open concept ER, people automatically be like, well, that doesn't work. And I'm like, 12, we have 60 plus locations. So something is working. Something's working. But maybe it doesn't work for you, which is fine. Right? Or maybe you don't have the ability to see the differences that we can be doing. And then people come in and experience it and they say, oh, now I get it. It does work. And so I'm excited to see your journey on social media. I'm excited to see like what the practice becomes and how you do it all. And I'm sure there's going to be things that you're going to, and we've experienced this where I'm like, this is how we're going to do something. And then the reality, it doesn't work out. Yeah. So I'm sure there's going to be some things along the way. They're going to be like, we're going to do this. And then when you get into it, you realize, yeah, maybe you need to adjust. Yeah. But the great part is you own it and you can make adjustments. I get to. Yes. So as a finance guy, exotics or just can't appreciate or envision exactly. But like birds, lizards, snakes, birds, so they're like 50 birds forever. Yeah, all of them. Like they bring a burden on in a cage. You take it out of the cage. Like, no, they just send it by carrying your pigeon. Like, we have cats that get loose. And like, you know what I mean? Like dogs get loose sometimes. Yeah, birdcage. There's legit. I know, but you have to take it out of the cage, right? To like do stuff. Yeah. What keeps it from flying away? Well, you hold it. So it doesn't fly away. What happens with flies away? Like a dog with you catch, right? I mean, knock on what I've never had a bird fly away. So mostly birds are owned. And they're used to like getting on a finger or being held. So it's not like they're wild birds that are trying to like break free. So a lot of them are trained to be messed with or like. You'd like to have fans in the like, no, I'm serious. Like, I mean, I close my mind a little bit. So I do see a lot of birds for hitting ceiling fans at home because they're like, we fly that home. It's not true. I don't necessarily always recommend that, but, yeah, no, they come in a cage. I'll go in a like a smaller room and take them out. And, you know, put them in a comfortable position, wrap them in a little towel. And you have to worry about like, um, dance and stuff. Not really. I'm just thinking about like a constructive process. Like, non-lust, they're enormous. I mean, the, my architect team did a great job ensuring that a hamster or a mouse couldn't crawl through a little space and a bird can't fly through anywhere. So that is important. Yeah, I mean, so we'd have to think about. Yeah, that's why I guess what I'm going is like, it has to be like my mind automatically goes to things we have to do different than an ordinary practice. Yes, yes. The little like cracks behind like a built-in or something like that you don't think could ever be there in the corner on the, in the, on the floor or something like that. Could be a hazard. You know, filled in and, you know, yeah. So in that sense, yes, we did have to do a little bit of, well, you have, you have different equipment for exotics. There's different things that you need and the setup is different. But that's why, you know, people that have these pets should really go somewhere that actually works on exotics and, especially, is in them because you're going to be set up the best for them. Absolutely. So, but there are bird cages. Right. It's fine. It's got to ask weird questions. Carrier, there's cages. They sometimes they come in their cage that they live in at home and sometimes they come in a separate carrier. Yes. Yeah. So there's lots of options for that. So, no one know. All right. Let's see if we can educate Shane even more. I'm going to start asking more questions. Don't need questions from him. I'm going to shut you down on that one. For sure. I've got a lot of questions. They're brewing up here now. Okay. So, like poisonous snakes? venomous. venomous. You don't say poisonous. But yeah, I worked with rattlesnakes. She's worked with like, okay, let's, what is lion's tigers, bears, literally, all of them? Yeah. I mean, I've worked with like a four gram frog species all the way up to, I think my largest species. So far has been like a tiger lion, African lion. Like, that was independently owned. Or is that like, those like zoo type stuff? Depends. Yeah. So I've worked with zoos before. And I do have some, being in California, I do have some clients that work in like the entertainment industry. They do have private collections. So, yeah, they still need beds too. So, I mean, so she has a vast array. That's really cool. It's very cool. My first case ever, sorry to interrupt. No, you're good. Was a status epilepticus African lion. Ston, and I gave him three bottles of diasopium to get him to stop seagruring. Yeah. Wow. So that was my first case ever. And then, we like, we like, I'm a badass. No, I was like, I'm so glad I didn't die. I'm so glad I didn't like, by my arm, I'm not knowing what was going on. He stopped seagruring and ripped your arm off. Yeah. That would be a little traumatic. Yeah. So I do think that your job is very cool. And we got a ton of questions about it. Because people really wanted to know. So, at Dom, any que wanted to know, how often should a bearded dragon be seen by a vet? And I would say like, can you kind of just categorize like reptiles, pocket pets, like how frequently should they probably come in and see a veterinarian? It's very similar to dog and cat in the sense that the at minimum once a year for a yearly exam, blood work, fecal test. And sometimes every six months, if they're older, or for some species, I'll recommend every six months, like a hamster, for example. Because their lifespan is like two to three years. So sometimes I'm like, hey, let's schedule like every six months, every four months, something like that. But yeah, so really similarly to other species, I still want to see them annually for checkups. Yes. And I didn't realize because we feed our bearded dragon worms that they still can get parasites and things like that. And we also, she goes on the trampoline sometimes for natural light. And they're like, they're outside. They can pick up things. So doing fecal is a thing in exotics. And absolutely. They draw blood, like you do draw blood and they do have veins. Yeah, no, in the tail like for bearded dragon. For bearded dragon. Yeah, from their tail. Yeah, typical spots like the underside of their tail or the sides of their tail. But yeah, absolutely recommend fecal every six months. And blood work annually, or sometimes more often. It kind of depends because it's, there's certain dogs or cats maybe that get stressed when they come into the clinic right for a blood draw. But most of the time they can recover from that. There are some exotic species that can't recover from the stress that a blood draw takes. Because maybe they're not used to being handled. Maybe that bird, that little 30 gram perit ket has never been to a vet before. And so we always have to be really careful with how we're drawing blood, where, how much things like that. And just weighing like, is the risk of worth that worth it in this moment? Like, yeah, if the birds completely healthy, I use a lot of sedation for my exotic species. So that way, I'm not stressing them out unnecessarily and then reverse it and they're fine. And they're like, oh, it was an easy visit. I love that. Easy, happy visit. Just like we, you know, do for cats come in and stressed. Yeah. But it is true. Those iddbd birds will die in two seconds. Yeah, they can be able to stress and die. And it's terrifying if you're not used to dealing with them. So I would rather deal with that than like your dog emergencies. Oh, it's so funny. Like, well, you become comfortable with it. Oh, yeah. Like what you're able, what you're able to do. Okay, someone wanted to know, um, at Sophie Shild wanted to know, what do you recommend feeding to ferrets? And I would say in general, the hardest thing I have with dealing with exotics is the variety. Yes. Like the husbandry, what to feed, what their habitats need to be. It is way more information than anyone should have to have memorized. Yes. And you guys are way better at it than we are, um, that just deal with mainly two species. Yeah. So is there a place that people can go to get really great information for feeding their exotics? And then do you have a recommendation, kind of a blanket one for ferrets? Obviously, people should check with their vets. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, coming soon to my website or by the time this comes out, um, it'll already be live. But I'm gonna have care guides for every species. Nice. That just puts together, uh, because there's not really like one place to necessarily have as the go to, like a website. Um, there are stuff for veterinary professionals, obviously, but not for just the general public. So it does become really challenging to figure out where to go. But I'm gonna have free care guides on my website that anyone can access for, I, I will plan on for every species. Um, for ferrets specifically, I do recommend some commercially made diets. Missouri is one really good brand because, uh, they, the problem with just feeding them maybe, uh, one type of food or a lot of people feed them, uh, feline diet, like a wet food. And it's still really important to make sure that they're getting everything that they need nutritionally. So incorporating a commercially made diet is generally best for them as well. We see a ton of issues in the ER with people, not feeding properly formulated diets, um, in exotics. And so we'll see them have major issues with their calcium balance and having bone issues and fractures that have occurred. And, uh, it's really sad because it is preventable. So if you want an exotic, you need to be taken care of them properly and have the proper husbandry, for sure. And we need to set up our bearded dragon for their yearly. For, there was a couple other things I did think it was funny. Someone wanted to know how do you examine a hedgehog? I see people have the same questions as that. This is on cool stuff. So it depends because if it's a well handled hedgehog, I can examine them no problem. If it is a hedgehog that is not used to being handled, then it needs to be sedation because they will just curl up into a ball and you can't like open them out of the ball. But otherwise if they're well trained and handled, then then you're good. You're good. I was taught the water trick where you do like a little bit of water and then you set them in it and they mowl and a ball because they don't really want to put their head in the water. And so occasionally, especially if it's sick and I don't want to sedate it, then I can sometimes like do that and then I can still like feel their belly or if they had a mass like that they're, you know, rolled up and I can't see, I can absolutely. So that's kind of a fun little trick that does work with hedgehogs. Yeah. But I don't, I don't see a ton of them. So definitely, definitely I'm not the expert here. Okay, someone wanted to know at Nathalie, Eva wanted to know what is the most common talent you do have in dealing with exotic owners? Ooh. I would say that a vast majority of my exotic pet owners do not want to leave their exotic pets. Like they do not want to go back to the treatment area without them. Mm-hmm. And so they will just decline everything because they want to be with them. Yeah. Yeah. For fear of, hey, I had a bad experience because I had a bad... Get loose and fly away. I'm telling you. I'm telling you, I know this. You know, I had another bird and it went back for a blood drawn and it died. And so, I mean, that's exactly why I made my hospital open concept and reduced fear and all of that because that's probably the biggest challenge. I mean, I think that with dog and cat owners, if they've been dog and cat owners for a long time, they kind of like have seen the how their vet has handled things like over the years. And they're kind of used to like, okay, yeah, it goes in the back and then I wait and that kind of a thing. Exotic pet owners just won't come in. They generally will just not come in or they'll just say, no, we're not doing anything. And like you said, some of these species live for a really long time and some of them we don't see problems until it's been going on for like 10 years. Yeah. And so, that's even another reason that, you know, they're not coming in. I remember my grandma had these huge, huge parrots and they were, they lived forever and they were like her children and they would attack us all the time, the grandkids. So I have like a healthy fear of like birds. But she loved them. And I experienced that a lot with especially these birds that live a long time because these owners have just had them or they belonged to their parents and their parents passed away and they got them. And so, there's a, sometimes it's interesting to me, a deeper connection with some of these animals and pets than I even see with dogs and cats. And I probably see more cats that also live a really long time. Yes. But I do think that can add a component to your job of really having to understand that part of it and really be empathetic and understand the emotional component. Absolutely. And the ER, a lot of them come in and there may be the ones that aren't as well taken care of and they don't have a veterinarian and, you know, don't have financial resources. But you're seeing them because they do and they are really trying to help. And so, I think it's great that you were doing what you're doing, but it is a hard job for sure. Thanks. Okay, let me see what my next question was. Okay, someone wanted to know, what is the worst bite or injury you've ever had from an eggs? You know, again, knock on one. I have not too many injuries from exotics because I think it's, you also have to learn how to read them. I think it's hard for some people to know how to read their body language. I feel confident in reading their body language. And you have a good team. Absolutely. Like you have a good team that knows how to restrain properly and is comfortable and is not fearful about it. So, I really haven't had many injuries or almost anything. I mean, I've had occasional bird bites here and there. So, I would say if like a bird were to get me like right at my nail bed, that's probably the worst. But I've never had to go to a human ER for stitches or anything like that. That's impressive. So, did you grow up with a lot of exotic animals or was this just kind of something you fell in love with in that school? Both. No, but I did grow up with a lot of exotics. I had dogs, cats, hamsters, frogs, bird. What else did I have? A snake. I tried to bring everything home and I was like one of those kids that would like go outside and like catch all the frogs and things like that. And then I still have a 26 year old cockatiel and a rabbit and a frog. Wow. And they're real cute too. Yeah, they're cute. You put up pictures of them and I'm like, this is awesome. So, I did have a couple questions about people wanting to know and this is maybe also like a shantime question, but I'm very good question. Very well thought out. Well thought out question. No, but things that I think we just know and they wanted to know like how did you become an exotic vet? So, a lot of people assume you have to do like additional extensive training and get an additional degree. And you can specialize in exotics. Right. And you even can be more amphibian or reptile or bird. You can get really specific with it. Yeah, but did you do additional training or what did that look like for you? Yeah, so my path was I was a zookeeper actually before vet school. And I worked with exotics and wildlife and zoo animals in that capacity. And then I went to vet school and then I came back and worked for that same zoo as a veterinarian as well as a practice that saw small animals, exotics and wildlife. And so, but I went straight into practice. I didn't do an internship. I didn't do a residency. Well, part of the reason was because I lived in Southern California and I couldn't afford to do an internship or residency. And I didn't have anyone else's financial support. It was just me and I was like, my rent is like $2,500. I can't afford to do this. So, I had a great mentor. I went into practice, worked there for five and a half years and got almost all of my training there as well as on rotations and vet school and prior in terms of like husbandry handling, things like that. And now, on top of starting a practice, I'm also in the process of my small mammal board certification through ABVP. So, you can after being in practice for five years ago and kind of go back into a nontraditional residency and get specialized that way. So, that's been my path. How many questions of the navely are specific to exotic type pets? I forget the percentage. It's a pretty small percentage. I was going to say, I want to say like 10, 15, something around there. So, but there's also, it's weird because dog and cat is, you know, a decent person, but then you have like equine, you have large animals, pigs, yeah, it's a huge variety. So, honestly, if you look at like the percentage, it's not dogs and cats, it's huge, but it is, exotic is definitely still like a smaller. Yeah, I think it's probably less than 10%. And I think most of the questions are about actually birds and fish. That was like most of, because there's some zoonotic diseases with birds and then there's just some crazy things with the fish ones. How many like GP practices do you call this? Hey, I've got a snake. Do you see it? How many GP practices are seeing exotics? In my area, probably five. I mean, they call all the list of what we say. In our area, there's probably about three to five that are like GP type practices. But not all of them even see reptiles. So, it's almost like small mammals, and then not like birds or reptiles. Some people, or they'll see, a lot of people might see like rabbits. I know some people that will do rabbits and dogs and cats. But it's interesting because the term exotics does not mean everything. Right. So, people definitely need to be aware of like who in their area does see the certain type of animal they have and not assume that if someone says they see exotics, it actually means like snakes specifically are a whole nother thing outside of I feel like even like bitter dragons and whatnot. So, for me. Yeah, specifically. Not for you, maybe. Not for me, but I do think, but yeah, there's the more common ones that people are more comfortable with and then there's ones that I think you have to especially have a team that is comfortable with. Absolutely. And that's the biggest mistake I see is someone saying like,"I'll do exotics, but not having the proper equipment, the proper training to restrain them, and really understanding what they're getting into." And then it's just a disservice to the pet, because you're not doing what you should be doing. Yeah, absolutely. I do have, so from the practice on our side of things, do people pay a decent amount for their exotics or do you get the same variety that we get of the people who say, like, do everything? And money's not an issue and then the people who are like, do treat for the treatable or put them to sleep because this guinea pig costs 30 bucks and I'll go get another one. Yes. So, what is the variety? Boat. Yeah. Kind of the same thing. I have a lot of amazing clients that are very dedicated to their birds and reptiles and rabbits and they will do anything and everything and they have pet insurance and cost is no. So, you get pet insurance for exotics? You can. Wow. Yeah. I don't think I even realize that. Yeah, you can. I'd hate to be those underwriters that are trying to figure out that. We'll tell any rates. One company right now offers it. So, that's why it's like not very well known, I think. But yeah, I definitely have that side and I absolutely have the side of, well, it's my kids' parakeet or hamster or guinea pig and they don't know it's sick or I just go buy a new one that looks the same and replace it or yeah, it costs $20. I'm not going to spend $200 on treatment. The one I hate in the ER and I will be honest is people will come in with their kid and they'll be like, well, the hamster hasn't eaten for three days and the hamster is trying to die. Yeah. It's like gasping because it's probably got some respiratory something and it's been sick for a lot longer, right? But they just realized. Yeah. And the parents will be standing behind the kids and the kids will be like, so worried and they brought them to the vet and so they're saved by hamster and the parents behind the kid like, don't do it. Like we're not doing anything. Yeah. But basically they want me to put on a show for the children because they don't want to tell their kid like, we're not actually going to do anything for the hamster. We're here so you think we're doing something and then I have to examine it and say, well, sometimes animals don't make it despite what we want. And you know, use an asia would be best and I get put in a position from the parent where I have to be to make them cry big times. That's a generational problem. Those people that raise those gen Xers. Yeah, your parents would not have sugar coated. Yeah, much more straightforward conversation. Much more straightforward. Yeah. Like I get the same thing. Like I don't want to be responsible for telling your child that this is what's going on. Like I don't mind having them part of the discussion, but you just completely put it on us right so that they don't have, I don't know. Well, and sometimes they want me to say like there's nothing that can be done and I'm like, well, actually, there's probably some things like me done, but yeah, I'm actually like, no, we're not doing anything. Yeah. Okay. So it's a position to be in for sure. It is. And when you look into your questions, I got another question. So in the in the remodel that you are doing today, are you doing like a typical exam tables and stuff like fold down tables or what? Not exactly. So I do have some exam rooms or kind of like procedure rooms off of the treatment area that will that does have a full down table. And there's structured a little bit differently. There's kind of like a couch in it and you know, it's just a little bit more like homey in the treatment area though. I have like a big, it's almost like a community table where clients can sit and we can, I can also examine a pet on there or it almost looks like you're living room. So yes, I do have a couple of fold down tables, but in a way that it looks like someone just walked into their house and not necessarily a hospital or a clinic or that kind of thing. It's a little more homey. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and so your architects you worked with are amazing and I've seen the renderings and the animal. Yes, it looks incredible. So I'm assuming you'll eventually have a social media account and people will be able to follow you on that. Absolutely. It will be. It is coming shortly. I get it. It's a lot of work to get all that started and to do that. But I do think that you do such a good job of showing the things that happen and we actually have a question at savvy 0567 wanted to know what does a day look like in your life when you were working as an exotic vet? You actually put up a ton of cute pictures and videos and things you're doing in patients and procedures. Yeah. But for people who don't follow you, what would you say your typical day is like typical day. It's so different every day, like truly. I will walk in and see a rabbit and then a bird next and then a bearded dragon and then like right now as I'm doing relief work right now. So I'm still seeing a dog dogs cats, pigs, sometimes small ruminants as well. It's kind of all over the place. Are you doing surgery or are you doing? I am doing my surgery as well. But so I guess I'll go back to when I was just like in one practice. That's a little bit easier. I'd have like a surgery morning where I do space and neuters on rabbits, guinea pigs, dogs, cats, whatever it was. And then appointments all afternoon that were wellness or sick appointments, that kind of thing. But pretty much every day was just a different species, every appointment. And I love that. So I was going to say the variety would be really fun and challenging though. Also, like, yeah, I mean, it is certainly and I think in the beginning, it was more so. I guess it's like though when you're like really into exotics, it like doesn't feel like a challenge necessarily. I almost feel like sometimes exotic medicine is easier. I hate to say it like that way, but so much of it is about husbandry, so much. So if you, it's like 90% is husbandry related issues that I see in the clinic. So if you have that down, then everything else, everything else kind of falls into place. So and that side of things like for a long time, I've been, I've known that known how to take care of these species. So it's just that's maybe why it doesn't, doesn't always feel like as overwhelmed. So yeah, so overwhelming, but it just feels exciting. And I think if I did it, if I wasn't doing exotics, I'd be really bored, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. That makes perfect sense. Yeah. Do you, for people who are not aware and probably for Shane, can you explain what you mean by husbandry? I also do that takes care of everything. And it was definitely now it has to do. And also like what are your maybe top like three husbandry mistakes that people make that they need to make sure they are aware of? Yes, husbandry is just the general care of the animal, including diet, proper diet, proper environment at home. And top three, while do like different species. So inappropriate lighting for reptiles, most of them have a UV requirement. And a lot of people don't know that because there's a lot of reptiles sold in pet stores and they don't tell you anything. You need this UV light and you have to change it every six months. They'll just buy one and I actually bring my lights to appointments. Oh, good. And they check the light. That's awesome. I was like when they first said like bring your light bulbs, I'm like, huh? And then they're like, yeah, we're going to make sure you don't need to change it. Yeah. And so that's something I didn't know about exotics. I love that. Second thing, seeds are not an appropriate diet, Furbert. Almost no species should be on a solely seed based diet. So that's a huge dietary issue. And let's see, I'll go rabbit. Rabbits need to be constantly eating. They also should eat predominantly hay and they don't eat carrots. They shouldn't be eating carrots, even though bugs, bunny, did. So even for snack, even for a tree. Yeah. Maybe like a tiny piece once a week as a treat or break it up and use it as like a little training treat, right? But no, but like that's it. Like maybe maybe at most one baby carrot a week. Okay. I get my bearded dragon blueberries occasionally. That's after she gets like a little, yeah, little soak. Yes. She gets a blueberry too. A bearded dragon can eat a small amount of fruit and that's totally fine. Okay. Okay. I wanted to make sure I was getting like the check in the class. And actually we've had her forever and how often have you held her? I don't look at it. I don't look at it. I don't look at it. I don't like. He is not. It brings like she brings some out. She so it's so funny because it's so different. But we love our Lucy. We love our bread and dragon. It is especially so. Okay. Any other take home things that you want people to know about being an exotic Fed? Why do you love it so much? The variety, obviously. The variety. I love the species. I love that I get to work with such unique species every day. Like, sometimes things that people have never heard of. I love coming home and telling my fiancee like, oh, I saw this animal today. He's like, I've literally never heard of that in my life. Yeah. I'll probably I should call Shane and tell him. Yes. Send him my daily. That's true. And he'll be like, I have no idea what that is. No, but I love that. I love. Yeah. Yeah, the the I love being able to make bonds with these animals that like you said earlier, you don't always think that you can bond with them the same way as dogs and cats. But you can and I love that aspect of it. And also just in general, like, don't be I don't want people to be so afraid of exotic animal medicine. It's like, it's developed this like taboo scary thing because it's like this bird. It's it's tail bobbing. I can't touch it. It's going to die. It is can be scary at first, but it doesn't have to be like there's definitely things that are very similar in dog and cat medicine. Like, they're not that they're still an animal like it's still you can still use some of the same foundation to concepts tools to treat them as you do dog and cat. Well, and there's a lot of really great like resources out there and training and you can get better at it. Absolutely. Just like everything else in our profession. Absolutely. There is exotics con there's tracks at every conference. Absolutely. There's a webinar or so or you can message me. Yeah. There you go. I'm always happy to help. So that's a great point. How can people reach out to you and how can they follow along on your journey? Yeah. Absolutely. They can find me at doctor Sydney undersword DVM on Instagram, TikTok, any platform and they can follow my clinic as well. I love the veterinary collective love it at fauna vet. Sounds very, very fancy. Very California. I like it. I like it. Very California. No, the clinic is going to be amazing. You're going to be an amazing practice owner. I'm so excited for you and y'all should definitely follow along on her journey. Shane, you have any other questions? I've got a lot of questions, but I feel like I'm getting chest outs from my great questions over there. No, it's been great. I love the engaged bit. So we will we'll shut it down and then we can let you ask more questions because it's getting to be late. But we do appreciate everyone listening. If you want to leave a review on Apple or Spotify, that'd be great. We love your feedback. We love your questions at questions with Crocker. Sydney, thanks for being here. I really appreciate you. Thanks for having me. And you guys have a wonderful day.[MUSIC]