Uninterrupted with David Mbeha
Uninterrupted with David Mbeha dives into conversations on navigating life, victories, success, relationships, failures and lessons in an authentic and uninterrupted scope, enabling listeners to form a deeper connection with various guests.
Uninterrupted with David Mbeha
Luis Munana: The Cost of Showing Up As Yourself When Everyone Expects Otherwise
Luis takes us on a profound journey from his origins as a disciplined overachiever in Rundu to becoming a pioneering entrepreneur and media personality across Africa. What begins as a conversation about his numerous "firsts" in Namibia's business landscape evolves into a deeply personal exploration of identity, religious constraints, and the courage required to chart an authentic path.
Growing up in a strict religious household, Luis developed both the discipline that would later fuel his business acumen and the people-pleasing tendencies he'd eventually need to "unlearn." His finance education provided essential skills for his entrepreneurial ventures, though his discovery of modeling and media happened almost accidentally while studying in Cape Town. "I fell in love with the cameras, the backstage, the setup," he reflects, marking the beginning of his creative career trajectory.
The heart of our conversation explores the painful choice Luis faced between adhering to religious expectations and expressing his authentic self. This separation from family continues to affect him deeply, particularly during holidays when others return to their loved ones. Yet by sharing this story publicly, he's not only found personal healing but created connection with countless others experiencing similar estrangements.
Luis entrepreneurial philosophy centers on identifying needs and filling them fearlessly, from pioneering Black-owned ventures to creating content that had never existed in Namibia before. He looks for collaborators who share his vision of building something meaningful, not just chasing paychecks. Throughout his success, he's maintained a grounding perspective on fame: "You can be famous and still be human. You're just more popular, more known, and have more money—but that's it."
What would you choose if your dream meant potentially losing your family? Listen as Luis shares how he navigates this impossible question while building multiple successful brands and remaining true to himself.
The American Pronunciation Guide Presents ''How to Pronounce Iwamu''. From the get-go, I show up as me. I will wear my earrings, I will wear my jewelry, I will wear my vest if I have to, because I want you to know. This is who you are going into business with, this is who you'll be working with. This is my authentic self. You know, I've hidden myself for such a long time. When I entered my late 20s, I decided that I'm going to show up as my authentic self because you finally stopped people pleasing. I finally stopped. I had to unlearn that's that word again, yeah, I I started unlearning things from from 25 years old onwards and learn and learn, but then, at some point, I got to a point where I I need to start showing up like you just have to make it work. You have to make it work. The good thing is when you shoot with somebody who understands TV. It's like oh, I get it. Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1:Okay, welcome to the podcast, luis, thank you, thank you, thank you. I've wanted you on this podcast for the longest of time. I don't know why. I wasn't supposed to move anything. Man, you can move around. I just want to do this. You can move it around, lift it, let it go low.
Speaker 1:So what is your intro? Should I do your intro? How do you want to do your intro? I'm not that considerate. You can do it. Okay, I mean, you've done a lot. Hey, I want to say you've produced, you're an entrepreneur, you are a model. Wait, we've started. 've started? Oh, this is how we start, this is where we start, okay, okay, yes, I mean you, you are, I would say, the king of firsts in the country, and you know this, right? Yes, has that. And. And I read somewhere where you said you've always identified a need and then try to fill that need, and that's why most of what you do is always first of its kind in the country. That is correct, yes, so I'm always wondering when you do something like that, have you always been inquisitive, constantly just finding different ways to do it? So, um, it bothers me when there isn't something and I want to see it there. Yeah, so, so, um, there's this saying that I live by uh, which goes be the change you want to see in the world? Yeah, so if you're not gonna do it, you can't wait for the next person to do it, so you just have to do it. You know, yes, um, so that each of it needs to happen. Why is it happening? Is there? So I'm like, fine, I'll, I'll be the one to start it. Then I'll be the one to do it. Yeah, but that requires a lot of bravery. Hey, sometimes you're like, okay, it hasn't been done. Can I really be the first person to do it? What has always set or kind of like extinguished that thought when it appears the need for it to be done? And because when you tried something for the first time and you realize that, oh, I can actually do something that hasn't been tried before and it worked out, you know you are guided. If you can say that, or you know that this is meant to be, and especially when you start doing the thing and there's minimal resistance, the resistance isn't so strong, it's it's, it's minimal then you know, okay, I'm on the right path, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Then you know it's meant to be, you know it's meant to be. Well, resistance will be there, but, um, it's not as strong as something that is going to deter you from your path, to say that don't do it, don't do it. But resistance is always going to be there, but it's minimal, and you can feel when it's a financial resistance or resistance because a certain thing is not in place, and then you also know when it's a type of resistance that I should not be doing this type of thing, that kind of resistance. So you have to be able to have the discernments to distinguish between the two, to distinguish between these two. I'm kind of wondering do you remember the first time that we met? I, I remember, but I know that you don't remember, but I'll be surprised if you do where. So, um, you had just won. No way, it's true, but I'm just shocked that you remember. What do you mean? No, because I, I wanted to show off and be like I do remember the first time that we met, but I know that you probably wouldn't remember. I think, wait, let me, let me, let me try. You're on the right track, though you just you had just won the TLC presenter search, yeah, and then I think myself and Thuy wanted to interview you. Ah, that's exactly how it was. So we were like who's the superstar that's putting Namibia on the map out there? Let's have a chat with him, let's interview him, and stuff like that. That was around the Boigush days. You've got a short memory. I'm so shocked, like I was, like I don't think he remembers, so I'm gonna tell the story of how we met. Yeah, and I, I also do want to say I remember like around that time I'd read about you in the newspapers, right, and, and I think it was a time where you, your brand, was very much about model with a qualification. I remember that hashtag and I was like model with a qualification. I remember that hashtag and I was like model with a qualification. What is that? Yeah, and you were in Cape Town. Right, I was in Cape Town, yes, where you studied finance, and I think you were also just coming back. So you had that model with a qualification. Yes, that's correct. And I remember reading that article and saying I really want to be in the industry. Maybe I should go to Cape Town, because I remember when I read that article, it said you're doing a lot of modeling in Cape Town, and I was like maybe Cape Town is where I should be. So tell me, you've studied finance, yes, how has that helped who you are now in your brand? The best part about having tertiary education is it teaches you discipline. It teaches you a rigorous way of studying a rigorous way of doing things, because this is a structural institution where things are done a certain way, institution where things are done a certain way. So you need to to to carry that knowledge or that routine and that, that, that mandate of. I have to do an assignment I have to do, I have exams to study for and prepare all of that and then you take that and you apply it into your, your entrepreneurial journey, entrepreneurial life, yes, and then you also take what you've learned in finance, because you, you can't go wrong with finance. I mean, um, what every business in the world deals with finances, unless you are not dealing with funds. But if, wherever there's money, there's finance. So, um, I think to me that's what I took from it. Um, I decided actively, I'm not going to practice accounting. I did it for I tried for about a month or so, working in a bank. I was like I can't do this. I'm sorry, I cannot wake up every day at a certain time and go home at a certain time for the rest of my life. There's nothing wrong with that, don't get me wrong. I just felt my, my talents were being underused because, um, I I felt like I wasn't growing. I felt I wasn't, I was stagnating, there's nothing I'm contributing to the world because I'm just doing books, I'm doing numbers and that's it. So, yeah, I mean to answer your question. Um, my background in finance is helping me to this very day in all my businesses to understand, like the latest offering, I'm sure we'll get there. You definitely need to understand numbers. You need to have a, because it's sales projections, it's well, all of them are like that, like you need to understand numbers. So, yes, that helps me, yeah, yeah. So I'm kind of wondering did you always know that, even though you were going to study finance, that you're always at at the core of who you are is always in the creative industry? Not at all. So how did you discover that? Not at all. Um, I, I, I grew up an overachiever. That much was clear from the beginning. As a young boy in Rundu, I always wanted to be the best, the best, the best. So from a very young age I started being the class captain, the LHC head boy, deputy head boy, doing sports, academics, like you know, all the social activities. So that overachiever mindset for the thing to end up in accounting or I'll be an engineer, a doctor, like some some way. Yes, you know, like your typical traditional careers that your parents want you to venture into or society wants to mold you into. Not, I never thought I'd end up in the creative space. If I'm being completely honest, um, I, I stumbled across it. Let's just say that, okay. So it was like a light bulb moment where you were like, I think this is where I belong. Yes, and when was that? That was in Cape Town. So, um, in my first year of moving there, um, I stayed in town. I stayed very close to the CBD. It's literally like two minutes away, yeah, walk through. And then the second year, I moved into the CBD. So, like Longstreet next to Longstreet imagine, as a student, you are young living next to Longstreet. It's quite busy, it's quite busy, you know. So, um, there's this thing called season. Yeah, season is when, um, cape town is a very international location. So there are big brands that come to film in south africa in cape town, because it's cheaper and the location is international. You wouldn't know that this thing was shot in in africa, but it's an ad for la, for example. It's an ad for europe, but cape town works. So there's this. There's this thing called season. Season happens at least twice in a year, and it's usually during the warmer periods when, when it's winter, that's why they come for summer here, okay. So there's scouts, there's agents, there's uh, there's lots of commercials, there's, there's a lot of activity happening here. So so during that period I um, I'd work home from school, I'd walk to to the waterfront and stuff. So they would always scout me, like they'll stop me and be like oh my gosh, you have the features, you need to be modeling, you need to make money, you have it. But you know me most now. Like at that point, I'm like oh, my god, I'm from namibia, I'm just here to study and get my qualification and dip and stuff, uh. But then eventually, as the years were going by, I sort of realized that let me make extra cash because students are all over. I also worked as a waiter. So I'm like let me make some extra cash, let's see where this thing can take us, where it can take you. Yeah, so I think from there that's when they say the rest was history, because when I did my, I'd go to castings, I'd go to auditions, I'd book gigs, and then people here in Namibia started seeing the stuff I was booking because it would show here, like during the African Cup of Nations. My dad at the time didn't understand what modeling was, but when he was watching soccer and during the commercial adverts there was a Pepsi ad and I was the star. So it's like, oh my gosh, we are watching soccer and we are seeing you on TV, so this is what you do. So this is legit. Yeah, so I'm like yes, you just advertise, you promote, you are a walking billboard yourself, you are advertising products and so forth. I think it was at that point when I realized I fell in love with the cameras. I fell in love with backstage and you know the setup, the getting ready, the preparation. So, as I was modeling, I started to see, to peek into the media space. So then I was like, wow, I'm so, so fascinated with this. I think this is where I need to be. Or, yeah, my, my voice inside was just like you need to be doing this, either behind the camera, in front of the camera. You need to be here because I thrived, I mean, I was glowing and you were your happiest. I was my happiest, thank you, yeah, yeah, I think it happens to all of us like there's just something about being in an industry which you know, that it almost feels like home and it's like second nature to you. So now you grew up in Rundu, right Before the Louis that would go on to do the remarkable things that you have done. What kind of? How do I say? What kind of person were you when you were growing up? I'm just like if we had to go back into the years, like, be it at school, like, of course we know you were an academic achiever, but aside from that, like just who were you? You know I was. I'd say I was the annoying child in the classroom, because I would write down the names of noisemakers, I would tell on you, I would tell the teacher that this one was making noise, this one was doing this and stuff like that. I would ask for more homework. So I was that annoying teacher's pet, that child. So I wanted to impress my teachers a lot and also because of my Christian upbringing, I would go preaching from door to door. Okay, what age is this? From a very young age you just go with your parents. But did you know I'm assuming the Bible? Yes, you had to know at a very young age. I still do. I know the verses, I know the scriptures, I know it's in me. You know what I'm saying. I know the verses, I know the scriptures, I know, like it's in me. You know what I'm saying. And how did you have like Bible classes or like, is it the church? Like Sunday school? Yeah, I'm just so we have in a week or at least when I was growing up in a week we would have about two sessions. So we have your Sunday session and then you have your weekly Bible study. So there's usually a book that we study for the week that is taken from the Bible, like, for example, the book of Daniel. It will dissect the book of Daniel for a whole year or so. So that happens during the week, and then on the weekend you have, most now, your official service, which is on the Sunday, and then in between you have to go preaching. Especially if you're not working, you do it during the week, if not, then you do it on weekends. But you have to prepare for all these things. You have to prepare for the Bible study, you have to prepare for the Sunday service, and then you also have to prepare for the Sunday service, and then you also have to prepare for your fishing. So your week is engrossed in spiritual things. You have the daily texts which you have to read every morning. It comes with your daily Bible verse and so forth. So, from the beginning of the week to the end of the week, your week is engrossed in spiritual matters. Did it make you fearful at some point? Because, I don't know, when you are so much into the Bible I'm not saying that the Bible is scary, but as somebody who's coming up and growing up, did you feel that you grew up as a child that was scared, not scared, but, um, understanding you, you are, you are more aware, you are more disciplined, you are more cultured, you are more respectful, you are more obedient. Because, um, you are fearful, but not in a bad way. Not in a bad way. You're fearful because I'm like I don't want to be committing sin, I don't want to to be displeasing my god, I don't want to be displeasing my parents have to honor, and you know what I'm saying. So, so, so that also stays. You carry that with everything else that you do outside of the house as well, or outside of the church, because these are skills that are instilled in you. Um, that's everything else that you do outside of the house as well, or outside of the church, because these are skills that are instilled in you. That's why you will hear most people from from from my church, are very respectful. They don't do this, they don't do that. You will never hear there was problem with someone from. You know what I'm saying. They are always like very, very well brought up. Let's just say that, and that is because of the Bible. And you know why I ask that? Because as I'm growing up of course I'm turning 30 this year, by the way Welcome to the 30s. So I've been just. You know, when I think back about my childhood, I grew up as a child. I grew up as a child. I grew up as a thankful, but also was very much praised by adults. Yeah, and which is a good thing, it's not a bad thing, but I, in a way now, when I look back in hindsight, it's still a part of my childhood. Okay, because I became a child that was pleasing adults instead of the innocence of a child, and sometimes just being a child and not have to live in a way that you want to please. Because as an adult later on, I find that I struggled a lot, because it also spilled into people pleasing, because I never wanted to be on the other side of knowing that I did something wrong. And even when I did something wrong, I wouldn't think of it in the sense that this is something I can learn from. I would feel like it's the end of the world, do you understand? I would also have lost my words. I completely understand what you're saying. Looking back as an adult, now, when you look back, what are some of the parts that you feel made who you are today? Better, good, sure, I think good is the discipline which we all see. Yeah, the discipline and that thing of the discipline and that's, um, that thing of, surprisingly, when, when you're saying that, I can also hear echoes of what you're saying. What I I brought into my adulthood which I don't think I should have done is is trying to accommodate everybody, trying to make sure that you don't upset other people at your own expense. To make sure that you don't upset other people at your own expense, exactly. Yeah, because Someone could be like can I take one of your eyes? Yeah, sure, yeah, sure, because I don't want to make you angry. You know what I'm saying. So I think that, to me, isn't something that I should have taken, but I've taken it and I'm only unlearning to do that now, you know, because it is difficult, because this is what you've known your whole life. Now you have to unread these things. So, yeah, that pleasing thing I've always wanted to make sure everybody around me was comfortable first, everybody around me is eating, even if I don't. In fact, they take this time, but that's not always a good thing, you know, because you should not put your sunglasses all the time. Yeah, yeah, so I'm learning that as well. Yes, yeah, and and it's true when you say that it's hard, because I look at my cousins who were, uh, and I'm glad that you said the good part is that I also grew up as a very fearful child, like if an adult said, hey, I can't do this child. Like if an adult said, hey, I'll do the first one I said so. Later on I realized that I would not just get into anything without, like, really analyzing it, because I was very, very scared. I grew up as a very scared child so I would not get into a lot of trouble. I would try and avoid a lot of stuff that I thought would represent trouble, because I was just very fearful, like if somebody was willing to get into a fight with me at school. I would avoid the fight because I never wanted my mother to ever be cold, but they even got into a fight with me. So when you think about things like that but I look at my cousins, who are very bad ears and just do what they wanted to do the good side of their path is that they are less fearful and they approach everything with that mindset the innocence of a child, not having to be scared of what if I do this, what if it goes wrong? They don't over analyze everything, they don't calculate just any. And being of a speaker, which is what I am, I will always think even the simplest of things, like should I buy this, should I not buy that? You know, and it's, it's the constant um, my thought pattern is over-analyzing even things I shouldn't, things that we over-analyze. But let's talk about you now getting into the industry. Yeah, obviously, you have so many brands Zureo, and then you have Rasul, and then you have, of course, the MTC, vendor, crescent Wing, yes, and then you also haveul, and then you have, I suppose, the MTC, the New Fashion Week, and then you also have Wahabakamu. I'm wondering. When you are working with be it working with brands or employing people to work on these brands what do you look for? I look for a hanger that I can identify that's similar to mine. It doesn't have to be 100%, but I need to know that you share the same vision. I'll give an example for us all you should share. The vision of this is a black-owned MCC. You need to understand that it's going to be difficult. We only have a handful of Africans you can count them on your own, on both your hands that own MCCs and not African black people, so that makes it even harder. That means the odds are already stacked against you, so you need to have that resilient partner of people that you're working with. They need to understand that this is not something that will happen overnight. It's something that will take time to develop and grow Again. It's something that has not been tried yet, but you have to do it. I'll give you an example for Waka. We didn't have captains in the country that are speaking local languages and English, but we didn't have the skill set in the country. Because we didn't have captains in the country that are speaking local languages and English, but we didn't have the skill set in the country, because we didn't have people that can animate to that extent where you are putting on a whole 30 minute episode. We didn't have people that can make hand puppets. We didn't have people that understand filming a TV show with puppets. So the people you bring into this vision need to understand that we are creating something from scratch. We are building an industry. We're going to be very easy. So once they have that mindset of I'm not just coming to work for money, because money will be there Whether we do it right or we don't do it right. You are still going to get paid the day of the day. But you need to have that thing of we are building something, that excitement. So the people come to you with different ideas and be like I think we should do it like this and they're not waiting for you to say let's do it like this, then you know okay, or at least then I knew this is. These are the right people because they share the vision, they see the dream, they see the long term goal. That's really a wonderful way to look at it. Did you ever imagine that you would one day be responsible for people's lives in the future? I didn't. The pressure of that is crazy, especially during COVID. I remember with the work academy because the TV show we taught at the school. That was one of the hardest things, knowing that you have 20 something employees just from the school Because the other staff could stay at home. You don't have to design during COVID, it's fine. You don't have to create cartoons, you just take the all staff and do reruns. You don't have to. You know what I'm saying. But the hardest part was you have teachers. This is their livelihood, this is their bread and butter and this is what they need to survive in this COVID. And you are sitting there. The parents are not paying because it's COVID. Their kids are at home. What are they paying us for? Because we are private school. So, having that realization of people are relying on you again to work every day and you have to do things, you are starting to degrade your savings. Now it comes down to you as a shareholder. You now need to start pumping in your own money, because that's what's now waiting for your CCs coming, your shareholding and the FDM. You are responsible for the debt of the company. So now you start tapping into your personal savings to make sure that other people like eating. Yeah, so that's where it really hits you. You are responsible for people's lives. You are responsible for people's livelihoods, so, um, I think it's challenging, but it's. It's something that that you navigate, you find ways to walk around, but it's not something you wish on anybody. Yeah, yeah, a creative. You know we're so fixated on. Okay, I'm going to go inside of the camera, but now you have to wear so many hats as a creative and step into. I'm now a businessman and I have to make business decisions. Was it hard for you like wearing that hat of a businessman? For you like learning ahead of a businessman? It wasn't hard. It was challenging. Challenging in the sense that you need to. Again, you are for me. I unlearn things instead and certain patterns. So I'm not this person who oh my god, we have to get you ready for the camera, in front of the camera Now you are transitioning to, I now need to be the person who has to get the person who's coming in front of the camera. You have to call David and make sure, david I really want to stop the interview should be living, stuff like that. So so it's, it's just that that transition, yeah, that flip, you know, um, that flip is is now the difficult part, because you have to wear a different head and it's, it's a weird transition. Yes, yeah, it's, it's a weird transition. But now it's even worse when you're coming into the entrepreneurial space, because you are trying to work with clients but the client knows you're under a certain light and it's harder for them to take you seriously. It's harder for them to take you seriously because now, all of a sudden, you're talking about you're talking about thousands and dollars, sometimes millions of dollars, with this person. This person is used to seeing you shirtless on the ground, posing somewhere. They're like is my money safe with this guy? They know you in a certain light. So that's why, when I started out, the hashtag for me was important to say I'm not just a model, I have a qualification. I've gone to school, I've studied, not qualified in the modeling sense, qualified in this, in the tertiary sense. You know what I'm saying. So so that that's why I had to make that very clear to people, because they I'm telling you in the beginning they would not take me seriously. They would think that what does this one know? You know, he's just a model, he's just on tv, he's just someone who has a big brother, like that's it. Yeah, they will. They will box you in that space. Yeah, I'm so glad that you spoke about that, because I do struggle with it. Um, I'm like wait, am I the guy that just posted shitless, or am I the serious? Like, who am I? And then tomorrow you are talking money with someone and they're just looking at you, they like take up, they pick up their phone, instagram, and they're like, yeah, exactly, and you know, I also wonder, like, of course, when people think about uh, louis, the first thing that they go is let's go to maybe your instagram, right, and I think that's what I struggle with If an investor was Googling me. But also, I don't want to leave an image that is not who I am, because then I'm going to make a mistake and then people are going to be like we thought you don't post shit. How dare you unfollow? Yeah, where is this coming from? How important is it to be authentic in terms of whether you're in a businessman or you're in as a creative and all the other heads that you were, I, I, I love to show up as me. Yeah, so, for example, um, if I'm going, um, I do a lot of work with, with, with the ministry of education, the ministry of health, united the EU and stuff. Every year there's a campaign. We're going into the communities and stuff like that, and in those spaces you meet the ministers, you meet people who are influential, you meet donors and stuff like that. So I always, from the get-go, I show up as me. I will wear my earrings, I will wear my jewelry jewelry. I will wear my vest. If I have to, I will, because I want you to know this is who you are going into business with, this is who you'll be working with. This is my authentic self. You know, I've hidden myself for such a long time when, when I entered my, my, my, my late 20s, I decided that I'm going to show up as my authentic self because you finally stopped people pleasing. I finally stopped. I had to unlearn there's that word again. Yeah, I, I started unlearning things from from 25 years old onwards. You unlearn and then unlearn, but then, at some point, I got to a point where I I need to start showing up as myself. So I needed to to to for people to know that this is who I am. Um, it's either we are going to do this or we're not going to do this, and they've embraced that um, because, at the end of the day, if they are meant to be working with you, they're going to work with you, exactly. There's nothing you can do or say they can find reasons not to work with you. There's nothing you can do or say they can find reasons not to work with you. They can go and dig up an old interview, they can go and dig up shirts of your top licensing, but this is not our values and stuff like that. It's just like if a thief wants to rob you, they will find a way. You can have security, you can have alarms, they will find a way. But for you is just for your safe of mind, for your own um mindset. You just try to have structures around you that are going to, yes, make you happy. So I'm so glad that you are. You finally found who you are and you're able to show up as that, because it's not easy for so many other people. I'm kind of wondering. You did mention on the show Young, famous and African, where you are one of the cast members yes, you did mention that Returning to your Christianity or to your church, you may rather say not Christianity, but rather to your church would mean you abandoning a part of you I'm not sure whether I'm paraphrasing it correctly but a part of you, or an identity. What is this identity that you have been able to create, that is outside from the Lewis that was under the church and the Lewis that you've created thereafter? So, when you are actively involved, you need to have a certain image, you need to be doing certain things, a certain persona and so forth, and you have to lead by example. You have to live in a certain way that that doesn't stumble others, that doesn't displease this one, that doesn't displease that one but, most importantly, doesn't displease god, you know. So, for me, most of what I do in the media space is not doesn't fit that mold, you know, yeah, doesn't fit your, your, your typical, uh, mold, that that you'd aspire. It's like imagine me as a pastor, yeah, yeah, imagine me as a pastor and I'm doing all these things and and I'm a pastor at the same time. It, it doesn't, it doesn't match. So so I, I feel like, um, I've made someone of myself and I, I like this space that I'm in. At the same time, I also want to still, you know, but you can't have it both, unfortunately. You can find the middle ground, you can let go of some of these things so that you are in this space, but I feel like, but the freedom of expression, it will know will, will never be there again. To that extent, there's certain things that you just won't be able to do anymore. There are certain things that you have to let go of. Yeah, there are certain um, there's a certain look that you that you need to maintain. All of a sudden, there's a certain um way that you need to be speaking. All of a sudden, there's a certain way of posting that needs to change drastically. You know your captions need to be yeah, I want to thank you for this day. So this is this. This, to me, feels like I would be killing a part of me which has made me who I am. It has also contributed to who I am, and I'd be killing that part, you know. And then, if I can't do this now, all of a sudden, again, I have to unlearn to do this, and then I have to come back and learn to do this again, I feel like a piece of me is dying again. I have to unlearn to do this and then I have to come back and learn to do this again. Um, I feel like a piece of me does it? Does it also feel like you are more alive than now, than ever? Not per se, not more alive, but I'm in a different phase. It's like when you, when you are before you are before you become a butterfly, you're a caterpillar. Um, so that's you in your caterpillar phase, it's you in your butterfly phase, and after your butterfly, you transform to something else. So I just say that I'm in this phase right now for a reason. I'm in this phase right now and it's working and it makes me happy. I feel fulfilled. At the same time, it sed saddens me about the other situations. Yes, of course you are in the church. Did you always have the fear that if I do one thing wrong, there is a possibility that I could lose my family? Was that something that was engraved in you? It's something that you know. It's something that you know because you understand when you start doing certain things, it's like you know, man, you could lose your family. Yeah, it's like you know. When you're under your parents' roof, you know that if I go out after a certain time and come back home after a certain time. My mom will not be happy about it. There's going to be consequences If I come home drunk as a teenager under my parents' roof. There's going to be consequences. You know that you know what I'm saying. Yeah, so you know, but that there's still that thing inside you which which says, like I want to pursue this path because I feel it's something that I need to be doing right now. Yeah, yeah. And also the, the kid that always lived according to instructions, respectful, needed to find himself. Yes, in a way, yes, to be able to create your own life. Yes, yes, because this is something that is set out for you. This is a path that is set out for you, but you need to find your own path as well. Some people take this path and it becomes them in their, in their adulthood. It they just mirror it. You are, you are now just that kid that grew up. Now you're an adult, but you still have the same norms, the same values, the same activities, the same way of doing things. Now you're just an adult, so the only difference is the age. Yes, um, well, I, I walked that path and then I said let me see what is on this path. So, yes, I'm kind of wondering okay, when it finally does happen that you are now separated from your family, you get a letter, or how does it? How does it happen, or does it it automatically? You just know that no, there there are official processes through the church. Yeah, there are official channels, and it doesn't just happen like that. They do speak to you, they, they give you a chance to, to correct your ways. Okay, yeah, they do give you a chance. Um, they speak to you in a very loving way. It's, it's, it's not done. I think people have a misconception to say that it's done very like harshly, what. No, it's not done that way. It's, it's done in a very loving way, it's done in a way that you understand. It's not even human ideologies that they give you examples of. It's scriptural stuff, it's stuff that's in the Bible to say that. But this path you are taking without imposing on you, they do it in a loving way. I, I don't know how to explain it, but I do understand, yeah. So so it's not you have very harsh no, you, you never hush. Yeah, you always have a chance to say you know what? Actually, let me take that advice and let me leave this and let me go back, yeah, you know. So they do give you a chance and but eventually it's, it's, it's a thing of okay, we can't do this anymore, you know, then, from there, you, you, you then get a letter and then there's a, there's a, there's an announcement with everybody else when they attend the next service, just so that everybody knows that this is what's happening. But you also need to understand that you can't, but you also need to understand that you can't be on continental TV acting a certain way. Today you are drinking, you are doing this, you are partying, you are doing this, and then the next day you are standing in front preaching to people to say that sex before marriage is a sin. You know what I'm saying? You are becoming like a hypocrite. You can't be idolized and loved and worshipped by fans. And then tomorrow you are preaching the only worship belongs to God and there's no idolatry and stuff like that. It doesn't make sense. You need to Okay. But then what has then been the form of relationship that you've maintained? Is it phone calls? With who? With your parents is it for? Or your family? Is it phone calls? Can you still do phone calls? Or like right now, right now, um, the, the rule, um, their new discoveries. So right now you can have your casual conversations. You can have phone calls. You can discuss about your family issues, about what's happening, like if you are in business together. You can have those conversations, you, you just can't really touch on spiritual matters, yeah, okay, but you can be in the same area like you can, but not not socially like that, like I can't call you, for you, for you to chill, like, let's, we are chilling or we are hanging, or you are, you are coming and you are staying. Um, it's like oh, hi, how are you? Um, you know you can greet each other, you can call each other, check in and then you move on. Okay, when was the last time you saw your parents? You know why I'm asking this question. You know, growing up I had, uh, my biggest fear was that one day I would lose my mother, and not even I don't know. It's okay, like I said, I was a child that was not a child. I was a child that was very self away, from a very young age. Yeah, so you had to talk to me like you're talking to an adult, because when other young kids were being young, I was already, uh, I think, maturing faster than most of the kids, so I I had a better understanding of myself and I would understand certain things that maybe kids should not understand at that age. And then, for me, the biggest fear was losing my mom. Until that it happened in 2014 sort of like the fear that I had, like what if I was to lose my mom? So I Just really want to understand, like you know, not seeing your parents for quite a long time what that is like. You get used to it. Like anything in life, it's. It's something. It's something that you adapt. It's something that you adapt. Imagine if there are people who are sitting in prison for 27 years on some island and they couldn't do their stuff. You get used to it. Like anything in life, it comes with the territory. What do you miss the most about them? A lot, I mean. These are your parents. You know it's your parents, it's your childhood, it's your loved ones. So you can't, you can't say for one thing, it's. You just miss your contact with your people, like these are your people, these are the ones you know will have, your, should have your back no matter what, or will have your back no matter what, yeah. Yeah, it's like your mom got your back. No matter what you do in this life, you know she's always going to have your back type of situation, but you know you being opening up and being honest and vulnerable with your story, you managed to create um around the continent like just people who genuinely just love you. If I have to say, I was speaking to my aunt, I said I was, and I said to her I'm gonna have lewis, and I said I want you to tell lewis that she is the most courageous person. Yeah, that she knows because she obviously follows you and it followed your journey. Yeah, but did you know that you would create around the not just in namibia, but around the continent, but also beyond the continent just people who genuinely love you and feel like a family? Some you will meet, some you will never meet. I don't think you set out to know those things because you just tell your story. For me, to be honest, it was like therapy, because it was something I'd kept for many years and only only only a few people knew. You know so. So it was. It was so therapeutic when I finally released it and finally let it all out, so I felt like I don't have this big secret anymore. Granted, it's not like a deep secret or whatever, but it was my secret, it was my story, my story that that it was my burden, that I, I, I carried and, um, it was this thing of every time when it's December, like, oh my gosh, you're going home for whatever Christmas, like every every year. When it's like, yeah, every year I'm like, oh, it's that time again when I'm gonna see people posting with their people and all of that. It's that time again when I'm going to see people posting with their people and all of that. It's that time again when it's all about family and stuff. So I felt that weight. When people didn't know my story, I would feel that weight because even my closest friends would go home to their people and then I would stay like, oh my gosh, I have to stay in Windhoek, I have to either go vacation somewhere overseas where people don't know me, and stuff like that. But once I spoke about it, I felt like, um, a huge burden was lifted, like something, something I just felt lighter. You know, um, and the best part of it all there's no good part, don't get, get me wrong, but the best part is having, like you said, people from around the world identifying and saying that, granted, we might not have the same story, but I also have not been in contact with my folks for X amount of years and my reason was I was pregnant out of wedlock. My parents kicked me out. Um, I came out as gay. My parents kicked me out. I I. I haven't spoken to my family because I'm out hustling in europe and my family is in africa and because of the fight, the finance, I haven't seen them in four or five years, but me watching someone on tv that's going through something similar, that this disassociation with them. I feel like I'm not alone in this thing. I feel like other people are also going through this. It's not something that is unique to me, and so forth. So I think they found comfort in the story, mostly because of that. They could see themselves in that, they could identify themselves in that, but they could identify themselves in that. But at the end of the day, it's not something that anybody wants to experience, but it's life. These things happen when it's all said and done. What do you feel you need more of? I need more of. I love people. I love people with good energies. I love people that are genuine. I love seeing, I love people with good energies. I love people that are genuine. I love seeing people happy. That's why I love to host. I told myself one day, when I'm big and old and and you have a big house, I have a big house, I will host, I will invite people to my house, I'll cook for them, I'll make sure they're happy. I like seeing people happy. That, to me, it turns me on. It's like a drug, it's like, oh my gosh, they're happy, they're having a good time. So the people-pleasing does work out well. In this case, it does work out well. In this case, it does work out well. And also, I think, because of that aspect of me and the fact that I can get this and I do this, I spread it out. That's also one thing that has worked well in my life. Whatever I get, I share. I don't keep it to myself. Whatever money I make, it doesn't matter what project I'm working on. It's not just mine, it's for me. And, yeah, a number of people, um, if, even if it's just income that I've earned, I it goes to this one, it goes to that one, it goes to that one, it goes to this, one and so forth. So, yeah, do you think you? Uh, kim kardashian once said that she feels that she was born to be famous and that's why she can handle what it comes what it what comes with fame. Yeah, do you feel that you were born for this enormous kind of success that you, you have had? I don't know about the same part, but the responsibility part yes, the success in the sense that I'm able to run multi-million dollar projects that can sustain not just myself but many people. I think I was meant to do that. I think I'm meant to have a shitload of money. Can we say shit, I think I'm supposed to be a billionaire. Like, deep down in my heart and I've been saying this already to my friends, people who know me, people who know me personally, grew up with me they used to say my name billionaire on their phones. This was when I was a student. I'd always tell them guys me, I'm going to be rich. I just have that thing in me I, I, in my life, I'll be rich, I'll be rich. And then the famous part came again, like at some point. You know what, guys me, I'm gonna be rich and famous. I just feel there's something in me that wants to come out and just you know, like I'm gonna be rich and famous, rich and famous. So so, yeah, I think it's, it's, it's, it's something that I it needed to happen. It was bound to happen one way or another. That's really a beautiful way of looking at it, because most people who make it often say I didn't know when, but I just knew there was something special about me. Yeah, that I had to know. That. I mean not in an ego, yeah, egotistical way, yeah, but just knowing that there's something within you. And the weird part is I used to tell my mom that I am going to be on TV one day, which was a funny story, because we lived in Groote Vuntie. There were no TV stations, no radio stations. So where are you going to be? So where do you even start? Where do you even start? But I just remember just feeling like I know I'm meant to be on tv, yes, you know, and of course, my uh, my mom and his sisters and my, my, my sister would be like sort of the audience and I would like present, yeah, and then my mom and show you what my mom enjoyed. It so much that when people would visit him, like you. You know he can present, right, david, she would call you to come do it, yeah, and I'd get shy. And she would always say you must never be shy of what God has given you, amen. So, and I think it's really true, you always know you have something special. You don't know where it's going to land. Yeah, you don't know where it's going to land. And talking about manifesting, when I was in grade 12, I would run home at exactly 1 o'clock on a Friday. I knew Oprah would be on and Oprah was at that time doing Next Chapter. Oh, she had already transitioned from Next. Yes, so she was doing Next Chapter. It was going to be her final set of interviews. So, 1 o'clockclock, everybody in class, I'm like, looking like, and she was on dlc. And that's how I fell in love with the channel. And three years later, I think, manifested being on the channel. That's how obsessed I was with the channel, because oprah was there. That's beautiful, just like even the whole Netflix gig. The way I got it. It just happened like this, out of the blue. I was watching the show. I was like, oh, this is a good show. The next week or so I get a DM. Do you want to be on the show? I'm like, okay, just like that. Things happen instantly. You can be here today, tomorrow you'll be humbled, are down there, nobody knows you, you are broke, you are out and out and about, and also just this human factor. You have to treat people like they're human beings, because you are also a human being. Why do you want to be on top of the next person? Why is your ego so big enough for you to feel like you need to step on someone other for you to feel big? It doesn't make sense, you know, know, so I never understood this. Oh, my God, I'm a star thing. Like. You know what I'm saying? Like, to me, it's just like, because you can be a star, it doesn't take away anything. Yeah, it doesn't take away anything from you. Like, you can be famous and still be a human. You know, some people think all of a sudden are not human or they are a step above the next person. You are just more popular, you're more known and you have more money, but that's it. Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful and I don't think I want to add or take away from what you just said, because you just summed that up just so perfectly, and I want to thank you for coming on to my podcast. Thank you for having me. Can you believe I have a podcast? You have on to my podcast. Thank you for having me. Can you believe I have a podcast? You have a podcast. Well done, thank you so much. Well done. This has been uninterrupted.