00;00;01;06 - 00;00;20;16
Ronda Lee Chapman
Hello, hello, Hello, and welcome to Nature People and Big Ideas. It’s a space where I, your host, Ronda Lee, has the honor of chatting it up with some people who love nature as much as I do and are being amazing in the process. And if you haven't had a chance to listen to episode one, which we're calling “the intro,” check it out when you can.

00;00;20;16 - 00;00;42;26
Ronda Lee Chapman
You'll learn everything you need to know about why we're here. But for now, I want to jump right into our first podcast guest. who is also a dear friend of mine whose name is Tykee James. Tykee is a birder. He is a social justice advocate. He's a community leader. He is the founder of Black Birders Week and a whole lot more.

00;00;42;28 - 00;01;08;22
Ronda Lee Chapman
He's super funny, he's charismatic, and he is definitely not shy about sharing his love of birds with everyone he meets. And he also has an acute sense of the relationship between nature and history which I hope you find as fascinating as I do. He talks about how they come together in conversation, and he draws his lessons from the Civil Rights Movement to help kind of inform the way his work in the Black Birders movement functions.

00;01;08;24 - 00;01;31;29
Ronda Lee Chapman
He thinks really deeply about conservation and what it means for him as a Black man and its connection to Black history, which is a super rich conversation. And I imagine it's not something many of you have heard. So my conversation with Tykee is a little bit rough in terms of the audio, not in the content, because I recorded it myself before I got my new fancy microphone that my fancy producer Tom provided.

00;01;32;06 - 00;01;56;28
Ronda Lee Chapman
So just know that the future episodes sound much more polished. Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoyed this kick off conversation between me and Tykee James. As I mentioned, I’m here with my friend Tykee James. Tykee, can you kick us off and introduce yourself?

00;01;56;28 - 00;02;03;06
Tykee James
Absolutely. Thank you for having me and congratulations on the launch of the new podcast.

00;02;03;09 - 00;02;04;00
Ronda Lee Chapman
Thank you.

00;02;04;05 - 00;02;48;18
Tykee James
As you said, my name is Tykee James. I use he/him pronouns. I’m based out of the traditional lands of the Nacotchtank people's. That's Washington, D.C. I'm from Philly, originally. Moved to DC about three years ago for the job that I currently have at a large conservation nonprofit. And you know, in that time and including, I've been involved with the birding community for about a decade now. And you know, within that I've had some some peaks and valleys, I had some some life lessons I've learned along the way, and that went into Black Birders Week, which I had a role in organizing in 2020, that served as a foundation of inspiration to start the Freedom

00;02;48;18 - 00;03;17;08
Tykee James
Birders Project, for which I co-launched with Jeffrey Train around this time last year, started as like a Zoom meeting. Then it turned into a website and now it's growing into a campaign. And I'm and I'm excited to be a part of it. It's also a feature program of Amplify the Future, which is an organization. 501c3, got the status, that I also co-founded with Orietta Estrada.

00;03;17;09 - 00;03;25;28
Tykee James
And you know that that just means that we can accept grants. So cough cough wink wink to to the philanthropic folks listening out there.

00;03;26;01 - 00;03;55;09
Ronda Lee Chapman
Awesome. Gosh, that sounds like a lot of energy, a lot of goodness, a lot of just substance that's just really valuable and so necessary right now. You named a lot of things and I don't know how far we're going to go down that list of the various touch points that you have. But one of the things that I personally am interested in that we don't talk about very much in the broader expanse of the great outdoors is birding.

00;03;55;13 - 00;04;30;27
Ronda Lee Chapman
And I will say that for me personally, I love birds. I have commissioned art artists to paint images of birds. I have one room in my house that has just birds imagery all over on all the walls, and I love them so much and I can probably name five and I would never consider myself a birder. And I know that, you know, when I go outside, there are certain sounds that birds emit that I'm just like, Oh my gosh, that's the most beautiful thing that sound I've ever heard.

00;04;30;29 - 00;04;52;00
Ronda Lee Chapman
There are only maybe two birds I can identify by a sound. One of them is a hawk and the other one is a robin, that's really about it. There might be a couple of others, but anyway, can you help me and anybody else who's listening talk about what it means to be a bird. How does one qualify to become a birder?

00;04;52;02 - 00;05;09;17
Tykee James
Well, after you send in your application, it's a typical 6 to 12 week process. No. I'm just kidding. No such thing exist. I would say first you probably and I think this is true what most people you know more birds than you think you do. Because I think you would know the difference between an owl and a crow.

00;05;09;21 - 00;05;22;03
Tykee James
And I think you'd know the difference between a robin and a pigeon. And then that's already that's already four. So yeah, I think, you know, more than, than you're letting on and that's okay.

00;05;22;06 - 00;05;27;04
Ronda Lee Chapman
I would even real quickly say that I actually can distinguish between a crow and a raven.

00;05;27;07 - 00;05;28;21
Tykee James
Oh, all right. Levels.

00;05;29;13 - 00;05;30;21
Ronda Lee Chapman
I think.

00;05;30;24 - 00;05;54;04
Tykee James
And I say that as much as we enjoy it, to talk about how it's not the knowledge of birds that make you a birder, it's the joy that you have and how you share it. And like, what that was, that repartee, that was our joy. We were just sharing that. That's what makes you a birder. That's what makes this a birding experience, not the knowledge that we have, not the life list that we get.

00;05;54;04 - 00;05;57;00
Tykee James
You know, it's all about the joy and how we share it.

00;05;57;02 - 00;06;17;02
Ronda Lee Chapman
Oh, gosh. Well, that just makes me feel so much better. I don't know if you had a chance to listen to the song we were playing at the start, but the lyrics are, you know, Let love be your magic carpet ride. And when I go outside, that's really what the outside is for me. It is a magic carpet ride, and that does bring me a lot of joy.

00;06;17;02 - 00;06;30;29
Ronda Lee Chapman
So I really appreciate you bringing that up as an element and like a key factor reading. Thank you so much. You know, another thing that's important about the work that you're doing, your a Black man, I can say that folks can't see that is true.

00;06;31;01 - 00;06;33;10
Tykee James
Every day I wake up as a Black man.

00;06;33;12 - 00;06;57;10
Ronda Lee Chapman
And every day you leave your house, that's the first thing people notice. And before they even understand all the other parts of who you are and the multitude of layers that exist within you and exist within me. So I think if you are going out into a community and you've got your binoculars on and whether you're on a trail or whether you're in an urban street, are people ever curious about what you're doing?

00;06;57;10 - 00;07;03;07
Ronda Lee Chapman
Does anybody ever say, well, that that man must be a birder, or do they assume that you're doing something else?

00;07;03;10 - 00;07;27;14
Tykee James
I think 90% of my birding has been for a job that I have. And it started at a environmental community center in West Philly called the Cubs Creek Community Environmental Education Center. And then there's the current job that I have now with the National Audubon Society, where I organize bird walks with members of Congress and congressional staff. 90% of my birding is from my job.

00;07;27;15 - 00;07;46;02
Tykee James
People are walking into the context of: this is the activity. This is what I can kind of expect. I may have never heard what birding is. Most of the time I'm watching birds for my job, I'm doing it with first timers. So it's like for the most part they don't even have a definition of it. They're just thinking we're going to something is going to involve birds.

00;07;46;02 - 00;08;05;17
Tykee James
So like, there's not a lot of question of what I'm doing, more of an inward question, What are we doing here? That being said, you know, when I go birding, I do carry my binoculars in public sometimes. I don't always put them in my bag. And, you know, I'll have a curiosity question posed pretty easy. What are you doing?

00;08;05;17 - 00;08;42;11
Tykee James
Well, I'm just looking at birds. And then what? Well, that's it. I look at them and I enjoy and then I and I'm I might add it to my little ebird list. And then. And then I keep it moving. And then it's just something that I did today. And people are sometimes taken aback with the simplicity around it because, you know, you think about watching birds, you think about observing wildlife, you're thinking about it on a global scale, how great it must be to travel and the needs for you to get to a place, point A to point B, the quality of objects and tools to use the boots that I may be wearing.

00;08;42;11 - 00;08;59;01
Tykee James
Because it you know, I just came from a trail in a park. Now I'm walking on the street in the same boots. You know, there can just be a lot of accouterment, if you will, around it. And I just try to say simply, you know, I'm just looking at birds there. Here are some of the ways that I do it.

00;08;59;01 - 00;09;23;06
Tykee James
You can do it your own way, of course, you know, so that that 10% where I'm not doing it for work, where I'm going to parks, I mean, you know, and I would say almost 99% of my birding has happened in cities or right after I go birding, I can go get something to eat on foot. So it's it doesn't cause me any discomfort to walk around with binoculars and have people be curious, because I know people might be.

00;09;23;08 - 00;09;26;27
Tykee James
But in my head, I always think it's just important to talk about how simple it is.

00;09;26;28 - 00;09;58;16
Ronda Lee Chapman
Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that. You had me... You triggered some additional thoughts when you were talking about the 90% of the time that you spend birding and thinking about members of Congress. And so a couple of facts came to mind. One is about I know I lately have been observing like hopefully everybody these different weather changes, these shifts in the patterns that we have that are all a matter of climate change and the impacts that they're having not only on our human lives but on our natural systems.

00;09;58;16 - 00;10;29;00
Ronda Lee Chapman
And I kind of have this like I was struck with a low level of panic recently. I was thinking about birds and the migratory patterns that they have. And the most I know is the birds go south for the winter, right? They go south because it's warmer. They have more abundance of food, etc., etc.. But when I think about climate change and I think about you had mentioned like a global kind of experience, I'm curious how birding and policy and climate change are linked together.

00;10;29;05 - 00;10;30;19
Ronda Lee Chapman
Do you have anything you can share about that?

00;10;30;25 - 00;11;03;18
Tykee James
Absolutely. We can look at conservation as a discipline. So conservation, hearing that term for the first time, you look at the root words conserve, conserve as a system, the environment, you know, and the roots of conservation are are very colonial. You know, it comes from the idea that there isn't an abundance where, you know, the outdoors or natural resources as they exist exist to be exploited, you know, even calling them natural resources.

00;11;03;20 - 00;11;38;28
Tykee James
And that we need to come up with a plan to make sure that we're exploiting those resources conservatively, you know, and that that's that's probably a very rough definition of what conservation means, but it's really a reflection of where the word comes from. So I use the term conservation today to mean how we are looking at strategies of land use, how that affects wildlife, biodiversity, how that affects human health impact and the ways that you connect that are looking at the current effects of current things.

00;11;38;28 - 00;11;59;25
Tykee James
You know, you can look right now, you can look and see the effects of sea level rise, the effects that that has on local economies, the effects that that has on bird nesting habitat, the effects that that has on the ability to farm or use the land. You can see that sea level rise is affecting even history, black history.

00;11;59;25 - 00;12;25;15
Tykee James
You know, Harriet Tubman's home in Dorchester County, Maryland. Well, that's facing sea level rise. And that sea level rise also is connected to the history of enslaved people on that land, because now that ground can no longer hold water so that like I'm no soil person here. You know, I'm giving a very bare bones idea of, you know, the soil isn't the land isn't healthy enough to keep water.

00;12;25;20 - 00;12;52;16
Tykee James
And so that in addition to sea level rise means there's nothing growing on these grounds, or at least the things that will be growing a new there don't provide the same benefit. As, you know, most of the county today relying on corn feed as the economic driver when you know, I think back 200, 400 years ago, it was tobacco, it was sugar cane or maybe not sugar, maybe sugar’s too...

00;12;52;16 - 00;12;55;10
Tykee James
Too north, but at least tobacco for sure.

00;12;55;12 - 00;13;19;06
Ronda Lee Chapman
And rice. I think it's amazing to think about the cultural implications. You know, oftentimes we you hear people talk about climate resilience, but there's also that cultural resilience piece that you're just naming. The fact that we have these lands that are literally being washed away, these historical lands, these ancestral lands that are being washed away. And with that goes the legacy of Minty of Miss Harriet.

00;13;19;14 - 00;13;46;23
Ronda Lee Chapman
And I think that's really important to name at the Trust for Public Land, we have a Black cultural and historic sites program, and you're just giving me a reason to kind of think about evaluating other lands that are being threatened by climate change that have these really deep rooted relationships with Black history, which is part of what makes American history what it is.

00;13;46;25 - 00;14;13;10
Ronda Lee Chapman
It's often overlooked in so many ways. But that's not why we're here. But that does tie really nicely to this Freedom Birders project. And I think about freedom. We're talking about colonization. wWe're talking about birding. So I think I really want you to share with us who the Freedom Birders are. I'm curious about the audience. I'm curious about the intended impacts of Freedom Birders.

00;14;13;10 - 00;14;32;23
Ronda Lee Chapman
And then maybe you can kind of close this out with some sort of call to action. I think sometimes it's nice for us to have a conversation. We just talk, and I love it so much, but we've got folks that are listening who might be enthralled and taking notes on a lot of the things that are being shared here.

00;14;32;28 - 00;14;42;21
Ronda Lee Chapman
But we also want to have some accountability. We want to give folks an opportunity to take an action so maybe we can close out with that. So who are Freedom Birders? What's what's this all about?

00;14;42;23 - 00;15;12;08
Tykee James
What is it all about? That's a really great question. And thank you for that. So you've heard of the Freedom Riders, perhaps? The group organized by the Congress for Racial Equity initially to help integrate the interstate. So they were for the first time Black people and white people, men and women, sitting on a bus for the first time probably in their lives, seeing an integrated bus, knowingly breaking the law to change the law.

00;15;12;08 - 00;15;38;10
Tykee James
And they had a long term strategy to do that. And and the strategy didn't start with them getting on that bus. The strategy started with them meeting each other where they are. It started with them building a philosophy and a practice of nonviolence resistance. It started with understanding how coalitions are built and how solidarity is gained. And that's a lot of the inspiration behind this point of the Project for Freedom Birders.

00;15;38;10 - 00;16;06;26
Tykee James
Freedom Birders takes its name from the Freedom Riders because we are seeking to advance racial justice with the birding community. And I say with, and not in, because I do think that birders are a special group of people, you know, and they're special in that they are connected so instantly in the activity of birding, however it may happen, they're connected so instantly to while they're observing wildlife, to the movement of people, to the to the history of land.

00;16;06;26 - 00;16;35;06
Tykee James
And I think that there's something special when we recognize that. And then when we think about that deeper question of how did we get here, we are in a better position to figure out what we do next. So Freedom Birders is seeking to find opportunities, creating educational content. We have a website, Freedom Birders.org. We have a Freedom Bird house resource where we connect civil rights, history, U.S. history and bird education to show that it's actually not disconnected.

00;16;35;06 - 00;16;57;19
Tykee James
And actually there's a more rewarding and a more comprehensive way to find yourself as a birder when you can connect yourself to the movement of people and the history of land. And this this idea for the Freedom Birders Project, you know, who's existing mostly virtually because of COVID. And right now it's easy. It's it's more accessible this way.

00;16;57;23 - 00;17;29;06
Tykee James
But I hope that it can turn into an organizing academy, an academy for organizers, you know, similar in the inspiration of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee SNCC their work with the Congress for Racial Equity to expand the mission of the Freedom Rides, to include helping the folks who would be arrested and jailed at the luncheons, helping transport more lawyers from the north to help with direct issues in the south.

00;17;29;06 - 00;17;59;26
Tykee James
When it comes down to yeah, not just integrating the luncheon counters, but voter registration because they knew, again, looking at the long term strategy, they knew that they could build a coalition of people to actively and proactively change the political fate of their community. And they wanted to enable, through voter registration, an opportunity for self-determination. And to get to that point, to get there, you have to be able to build solidarity.

00;17;59;26 - 00;18;20;20
Tykee James
You have to gain that solidarity with one another. And it goes beyond, you know, just sampling and being a symbol for somebody who means well, it means a lot to work with a group of people who understand and have an open mind to considering how did we get here? And having a similar vision on what to do next.

00;18;20;20 - 00;18;44;20
Tykee James
And what to do next is encourage more organizers. I think more organizers, especially in the birding community, can help lift and address a lot of barriers in the outdoors, a lot of barriers in the environmental movement and I think ultimately change the way we look at birds. And so we'll have new birders. We'll have a generation of birders who are connected to the roots of organizing.

00;18;44;22 - 00;18;53;09
Tykee James
So anytime they're out looking at birds, they're also looking at and understanding the history of the movement of people and that recognition of land.

00;18;53;13 - 00;19;20;15
Ronda Lee Chapman
I love that so much. And part of the reason why I love that so much is that interconnectedness. We so easily disaggregate and segregate ourselves from the ecosystem and we forget that humans are part of that. And our relationship with, you know, with animals, with nature, we are, we are that we are birds in a sense, as you're talking about that movement that really resonates deeply with me.

00;19;20;16 - 00;19;51;22
Ronda Lee Chapman
And I'll share that also, why you were speaking and reflecting on that 90% of your work being in and birding in an urban context. And I'm thinking about the work that happens at the Trust for Public Land, where we are building community schoolyards. We got this really robust ten minute walk campaign. We're building trails and I'm thinking about if there's an opportunity, I know that there is an opportunity to bring the birding community along with us.

00;19;51;22 - 00;20;19;01
Ronda Lee Chapman
So whether we're doing it in a way places so the places that are not close to home or whether we're doing it in places that are within a ten minute walk of somebody's home, as we are advocating for the fact that everybody has a right to have safe, welcoming, belonging, access to outdoor spaces, it feels like bringing the birding community along with us or in reverse having the birding community bring us with them.

00;20;19;03 - 00;20;26;11
Ronda Lee Chapman
However, we want to work that out to have a more robust conversation, one that is more systematic and systemic. What do you think?

00;20;26;18 - 00;20;50;20
Tykee James
One that talks about the role that power has in all of these discussions and our understandings is essential, because we have to organize against those power structures to make the meaningful difference in people's lives. That will not only benefit birders and people that are outdoor recreation enthusiasts, but the people who enjoy clean air, clean water and the preservation of natural lands.

00;20;50;20 - 00;21;14;01
Tykee James
And I forgot to add in the call to action to my response to your initial question. The call to action is to join the newsletter for Freedom Birders, where we are creating these resources. I'm writing stuff. I have my partners, my my Freedom Birders group of folks. We don't have an official name. Maybe we're the Freedom Birders, but it's the name of the project.

00;21;14;01 - 00;21;35;01
Tykee James
And we'll have a newsletter that will come out quarterly called Second Spark. And Second Spark is a name that came from an inspiration of the birders term Spark Bird. Spark Bird is the bird that got you into birding. For me, it's the belted kingfisher, the female with the rusted belt. I was given that bird as a book report, you know, kind of bird.

00;21;35;01 - 00;21;56;00
Tykee James
And then I saw it in real life. I was mesmerized. It really got me on the path that I'm on, and I didn't even know it. And so this newsletter will we hope with the birding community, it will be their second spark into birding, you know, and that will reinforce that that tenant of sharing joy and just taking in what we can, you know, in nature.

00;21;56;00 - 00;22;09;29
Tykee James
Yes, there's some there's some bad things out there, but there's a lot that we can organize against and there's a lot that we can still celebrate. And with the Freedom Birders Project, I hope that we can realize that through this newsletter, The Second Spark.

00;22;10;01 - 00;22;24;09
Ronda Lee Chapman
I love it. And I think that we can probably end there, we don't want to overwhelm us. I think we want to make sure that folks take action. Sign up for the newsletter. Is there any social media platform that people can follow? Yeah.

00;22;24;09 - 00;22;46;26
Tykee James
So Freedom Burners is a program of Amplify the Future, so you can find Amplify the Future's Instagram Birders fund. I know these are all a bunch of different names, but check out Birders Fund on Instagram and Twitter, but also amplify the future dot org. You'll see Freedom Birders. You'll see our program. You can also go directly to the Freedom Birders website Freedom Birders Board and sign up for the newsletter.

00;22;46;26 - 00;22;47;19
Tykee James
Second Spark.

00;22;47;20 - 00;23;09;23
Ronda Lee Chapman
I love it. I will be signing on to all of that. I'm really looking forward to it so much. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining me for this conversation. Really appreciate you. Can't wait to see you soon. And I hope you have a tremendous day. I guess we can say that this is our Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King holiday, that we're having this conversation.

00;23;09;23 - 00;23;26;24
Ronda Lee Chapman
And that's important to me when we think about radical loves and everything that he stood for. I think the work that you are doing, I think the work that I'm doing too, is about that radical love and so with that, I wish you the best. Have a beautiful day and we'll connect very soon.

00;23;26;28 - 00;23;29;17
Tykee James
Thank you so much, Ronda. Look forward to talking again.

00;23;29;18 - 00;23;30;24
Ronda Lee Chapman
Awesome. Thanks. Thank you.