00:00:08:19 - 00:00:31:11

Unknown

Hi Ronda. Hi Tom. So, it's a big day. We shouldn't bury the lede, here. Today is TPL's annual ParkScore day, right? Yeah, it’s ParkScore day. It’s our annual event. And this year, it’s our 13th. We celebrate parks. We get residents and all the park advocates around the country super excited.

00:00:31:12 - 00:00:51:03

Unknown

People like to listen for the drum roll when we kind of share the ranking of the park systems for the 100 most populous cities around the country. And, it's funny to see how cities compete with each other. They really care about their ranking. we'd like to see movement. We'd like to see that kind of motivation happen.

00:00:51:03 - 00:01:08:07

Unknown

So, yeah, it's it's ParkScore day. It's pretty big deal. Yeah. So high level. Can you share with us a few things about this year's score that stood out to you? Were there any surprises? Is, something that maybe left you scratching your head? And of course, you know, you mentioned there's it's a competition of sorts. Who is the big winner?

00:01:08:10 - 00:01:29:07

Unknown

You know, who got the highest score? I have to first start off with a little bit of a kind of humblebrag, because my hometown of Washington, D.C. ranked number one for the fourth year in a row, so I'm pretty excited. And it's like, I kind of feel like I won. But part of that is because, I mean, I live about 400 yards.

00:01:29:07 - 00:01:54:02

Unknown

You've been here. I've been. I live about 400 yards from a super active neighborhood park. We've got a dog park on either side. We've got a beautiful playground. We've got well groomed bio swales for all the stormwater runoff. We've got this gorgeous wall of incredible murals. We've got a four mile paved trail. So to me, DC is kind of the best place to live when it comes to parks and park equity.

00:01:54:02 - 00:02:22:23

Unknown

But I do want to say that while I'm really proud of that, there are several caveats that are really important. Okay, that's for another episode. But I do know that one result that we're super excited about is that our community schoolyard programs are really making an impact, and seeing an increase in the number of community schoolyards. It means that there are more folks in the United States that are within a ten minute walk of a park, and that is super core to our mission.

00:02:22:23 - 00:02:47:11

Unknown

And so this year, we were able to see that 76 of the 100 big cities have community schoolyards now, which feels pretty tremendous. I think when we first, were measuring the number of community school yards in 2018, there were 44. And to build a community school yard is no small feat. It takes a lot of collaboration and it takes a lot of planning.

00:02:47:11 - 00:03:10:01

Unknown

It takes a lot of heft, frankly, and it takes money. So I'm really impressed to see that we've got 76 cities of the big 100, with communities here. So that was exciting. And then there was also some news about the growth of pickleball, which I think is all right. I think that can elicit like a mix of reaction with our listening audience, maybe.

00:03:10:02 - 00:03:28:04

Unknown

Yeah, maybe on this microphone, but probably shouldn't even have an attitude about pickleball because I haven't even played it. I think I haven't played because I'm afraid that I'll love it. Maybe next time when I'm there, we can pick up the pickleball rackets and try it out. Right? That seems fair. Great. So the theme of this year's park score is community.

00:03:28:06 - 00:03:52:02

Unknown

And today in the episode, our main interview is with Scott Kratz, who will be talking about the 11th Street Bridge Project real quick. Can you tell us a bit about Scott and the bridge project and what it's trying to accomplish, and why it relates to this year's theme of community? Yeah. So I, I, man, I, I love this year's ParkScore theme being community for a ton of reasons.

00:03:52:04 - 00:04:15:15

Unknown

First of all, just because it feels really approachable, right? It feels accessible to talk about community. It doesn't feel like something that's hard for folks to comprehend. And so anyway, getting getting to Scott, he has been leading the team that's designing and building and one day operating the 11th Street Bridge Park here in Washington, DC. He's been doing that for the past over a decade, for sure.

00:04:15:15 - 00:04:37:15

Unknown

And it's funny because when he first came to DC, like 20 years ago, he came to work with the National Building Museum and he was going to be there and was there vice president for education. But somehow he ended up driving this innovative effort that is 11 Street Bridge Park. It really, just for me, symbolizes how you never really know what you're going to find on your path.

00:04:37:15 - 00:04:58:04

Unknown

So kind of be careful what you wish for, but also keep wishing, thinking about the park is, gosh, initially many months ago, when I think I could have been talking to you, I wanted to talk about DC as The Tale of Two Cities. A lot of folks who visit DC don't have an opportunity to go anywhere near the Anacostia River.

00:04:58:06 - 00:05:22:02

Unknown

And so we'll get into that. What is it about the Anacostia River? How is it that it divides? two very kind of opposing realities for the folks that live on either side of the river. And so when I learned that we were focusing this year's ParkScore theme on community 11 Street, Bridge Park really came to mind, because the bridge is both a metaphor and a very literal thing.

00:05:22:03 - 00:05:48:08

Unknown

It's, it's it's going to be this place that brings these two opposing realities or very, divergent realities together. And so we talk about that, which I really love. It's the bridge in of itself has the opportunity to be community. And one of the things that we discovered at TPL is that the research is showing us that across the United States, and I don't even think it's unique to TPL to know this.

00:05:48:08 - 00:06:10:17

Unknown

I think we can all see it every day. People are divided and our social fabric is really starting to fray at the edges. I remember when I was, in college and I was taking a community development class, and I read a book called Bowling Alone, and it was it was a really fantastic book, and I think that was written in like, I don't like, I don't want to say the 90s or something like that.

00:06:10:17 - 00:06:40:11

Unknown

And I think that early 2000, some early 2000 to maybe 2002 or something like that, my point there is that it doesn't seem like things have gotten any better. And, you know, we're divided by politics, were divided by economics and race and ethnicity and ideology and and so when we are talking about 11th Street, Bridge Park and we're thinking about how community can kind of heal from these types of divisions, the park took a very robust, equitable development approach.

00:06:40:11 - 00:07:00:03

Unknown

And I think that the 11th Street Bridge could actually be that successful collective intervention for all of those divides. As I said, Scott and I talk a lot about it. We hope that people really come away with a sense of optimism. It's one of my favorite conversations because it gives me that optimism. It gives me that hope.

00:07:00:04 - 00:07:25:08

Unknown

Yeah. Totally. Great. Thank you. good thoughts. So let's go ahead and jump over to that conversation with Scott Kratz and the 11th Street Bridge project. So greetings everybody. I am very excited to be joined today by Scott Kratz. Scott. Is the building bridges across the river? Senior vice president and 11th Street Bridge Park director. So Scott, welcome.

00:07:25:08 - 00:07:49:09

Unknown

I'm so glad you're here. I'm really looking forward to the conversation, Ronda. Thanks for the invitation. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I've said this to you before, and I. And I mean it in the best way possible. I think about the 11th Street Bridge Park often for many, many reasons, one of which is because I think it's just an incredible representation of how we can do parks differently, how we can bring folks together differently.

00:07:49:09 - 00:08:07:21

Unknown

But I've actually branded it in my own mind as something that is perfectly imperfect. And there might be moments throughout this conversation where, well, I'll call it like, that's exactly what I mean. It's, you know, there's so much hope. And then there's also the reality of some things. And so I think that's where the imperfections might come in.

00:08:07:21 - 00:08:31:24

Unknown

So I'll talk about that a little bit maybe, depending on how things come up and, and maybe you don't even agree with that. Maybe you think it's perfectly perfect. Maybe you think it's imperfectly imperfect. so we'll get, you know, your framing, your response to that notion. But before we even get into the meat of the matter, I really do love to understand the origins of things.

00:08:32:01 - 00:08:50:11

Unknown

And I know many myself and many folks kind of like to start in the middle of a story, because things are vibrant and active and we forget to go back. And I happen to have recently learned the origin story of the 11th Street Bridge Park. And I wonder if you can just kind of share that story about how this all began.

00:08:50:13 - 00:09:12:13

Unknown

Yeah, I know, happy too. It's been a journey, a little longer than I anticipated, but I had no idea I'd be building a bridge that wasn't part of my larger career path. I spent 20 years in museum education and working at a kids museum and a western history museum in Los Angeles, and came to Washington, DC, recruited to be the vice president for education.

00:09:12:15 - 00:09:32:11

Unknown

Great job. and in that capacity, I got to know the then director of planning for the District of Columbia, a woman by the name of Harriet Tregoning. And I was bringing over, the amazing planner and architect John Gale. the, from Copenhagen to speak at the building museum. And John had never met Harriet.

00:09:32:11 - 00:09:52:00

Unknown

And so I organized a little breakfast, and John was running a little late, and, Harry and I were were having conversations, and I asked what I thought was a totally innocent question. beware of innocent questions. Throughout one's career, I've come to learn, which was, hey, Harriet, what's happening with all the construction on the 11th Street bridges?

00:09:52:00 - 00:10:24:04

Unknown

Because I live, my wife and I live about four blocks away from the bridge. and I could hear the pile drivers, you know, early Saturday morning, Harriet unfolded this thought bubble of an idea when the old bridges were coming down because they reached the end of their life span, new bridges were coming up. Could we look at saving some of the old infrastructure, the extending the life of that initial federal investment to do something, you know, really special, really unique, which was bridge these communities that have long been divided between west and east of the river.

00:10:24:06 - 00:10:46:04

Unknown

And it was seven in the morning and, she asked if I could help. And I was like, well, how hard can this be? You know, 12 years later, and but I was hooked because the and all the projects in the nation's capital, I can't, I couldn't think of another project that in a single intervention could support that community's physical, economic, cultural and environmental health.

00:10:46:04 - 00:11:14:15

Unknown

Right. So I was hooked and, and set me on this larger decade plus journey. I love that, I love that, and and this bridge. Right. It's it's literally a bridge. It's metaphorically a bridge. It's it's a it's even intellectually a bridge. Right. And it's connecting the communities east and west of the Anacostia River. I know as a D.C. resident and local, a lot of people come into DC and they don't even know the Anacostia River exists.

00:11:14:15 - 00:11:33:05

Unknown

You know, people are only familiar with the Potomac River because that's on the West side. And that's where, you know, all of the tourism exists. And that's the only river they see. That's the one they notice when they're flying in. And I first wanted to talk about parks in the district or DC and call this episode like The Tale of Two Cities.

00:11:33:05 - 00:11:54:22

Unknown

Right. And the two cities being the east side of the Anacostia and the west side of the Anacostia. And when I was talking to my peers, I also learned at the same time that, you know, we're doing our annual ParkScore release that happens every day. It's a really fantastic tool and resource. And I learned that the theme this year for the ParkScore was going to be community.

00:11:55:02 - 00:12:32:04

Unknown

And then I thought, that still works. A Tale of two cities and community. They go hand in hand. because this is a story of reimagining. And that's so my perspective of DC. It's still a tale of two cities. The 11th Street Bridge is intended to bring those communities together, as you mentioned. But for the people who are in our listening audience who might not be familiar with DC outside of the more popularized, aspects that we that we cherish, I'm curious about the historical context of these really vibrant places.

00:12:32:04 - 00:12:54:05

Unknown

I wonder when you're out speaking, I think you've traveled the continent or the globe, right? You've gone to other places to talk about this project. You've been invited, and people from other places have come here to talk with you and the team about this. So how do you talk about the dynamics or the differences between East of the Anacostia and west of the Anacostia, for folks who don't understand?

00:12:54:05 - 00:13:16:02

Unknown

Yeah. I mean, I think to your point, Ronda, I think when we think of Washington, DC, we think of the federal core. We think of the nation's capital. But, I mean, maybe I'll start there is that, you know, there certainly that, you know, we are the nation's capital. the and when people think of Washington, DC, they think of the mall, they think of the museums, the Capitol building, you know, but there's over 700,000 residents who live here.

00:13:16:05 - 00:13:35:18

Unknown

And the and it's much more than the mall. Right. And it's DC is an amazing, rich, complicated history. Like many, the cities across the United States, across the world. And when we think about where physically we're the 11th Street Bridge Park is, you know, to your point, we we think of rivers in Washington, DC, and we think of the Potomac.

00:13:35:18 - 00:14:04:01

Unknown

We don't think of, you know, the Anacostia, the the Potomac separates Washington, DC from Virginia. The Anacostia divides Washington, DC. It divides us, the by these different communities. And I think it's a story of great disparity and incredible resilience. Right. the so this river has divided, the, the city by lack of investment. Right. the by like many cities have systemic racism.

00:14:04:03 - 00:14:28:00

Unknown

the a history of redlining, the that has led to an 81 times difference between the average household wealth of black families and white families. Like think about that 81 times, right. That's unconscionable. there's a 13 year life expectancy difference between, Black men and white men in Washington, DC. And, you know, I think we can all agree that a zip code where we grow up, your zip code shouldn't determine your life expectancy.

00:14:28:02 - 00:14:50:08

Unknown

If you zoom in on where the bridges, there is a $450,000 delta between homes on one side of the river and the other right? I mean, again, think about that. We're separated by 900ft of water, and there's nearly a half $1 million difference between housing prices. Finally, like west of the river versus east of the river, there's only 25 to 30% of residents own their own homes.

00:14:50:10 - 00:15:19:15

Unknown

east of east of the river. Right. And at least in America, the single greatest opportunity, the to build intergenerational wealth that has been systematically denied by people of color. it's 92% African-American, East River. But at the same time, there's this story of amazing resilience, right? I mean, it's the story of Frederick Douglass, who the Lion of Anacostia, right, who used to walk across the 11th Street Bridge every single day on his way to work and broke the red line, right, was the first African-American to own property east of the river.

00:15:19:17 - 00:15:48:08

Unknown

I think about stories like, and in rich histories, like the early residents of Berry Farm were emancipated African-Americans that worked often west of the river, came home at night and built their homes. the in the evening that some of those early sales of plots helped fund the establishment of Howard University. that's also a complicated story because the that thriving African-American neighborhood was bisected by it, by a freeway, by Suitland Parkway.

00:15:48:08 - 00:16:07:01

Unknown

And. Right. That obliterated a neighborhood. And then in the 1950s, the you have Bolling v Sharp, the the story of Gardner Bishop, a barber from Anacostia. the who helped take a court case all the way to the Supreme Court that helped desegregate, the Washington, DC schools. It was a companion case, the two Brown v Board of Education.

00:16:07:01 - 00:16:30:13

Unknown

So, you know, you you you have these sort of deep disparities and, and wonderful resilience. And I think we need to understand the complexity of those stories. We need to understand the, rich history culture, the and heritage, the that we're at the 11th Street Bridge Park and we're trying to see how do we address that first part and amplify, the, that second part.

00:16:30:15 - 00:17:02:08

Unknown

Oh my gosh. I, I just feel like there's a whole nother conversation to have here. So I'm gonna do my best to keep my focus. That's a really rich thing. But I do want to reflect on an experience I had that you all had to organize, where we met at the Navy yard to do the lantern walk across the bridge to, like, symbolize all of the Blacks who were working on the west side of the river who had to walk at nighttime, as you were mentioning, with Frederick Frederick Douglass, and build their homes at night while they were working during the day.

00:17:02:08 - 00:17:21:18

Unknown

And so I remember that it's very, very well, like centered in my chest and in my memory, thinking about walking across the bridge with that lantern and just the the reverence that everybody carried as we were walking across that that was that was a really powerful experience. So thank you so much for that overview. And I think it's really helpful for our listening audience.

00:17:21:18 - 00:17:43:06

Unknown

And I can't hear it enough. So thank you. well, and I'd say just one other thing on that. You know, fast forward to the 1950s and 60s where as if the river was not a big enough divide in the city, we as a, as a country decided to put not one but two freeways. Right. the river to, and I would argue, intentionally divide the city.

00:17:43:06 - 00:18:02:01

Unknown

Right. the and then you have a legacy of, disinvestment. I mean, where you have west side of the river at the Navy Yard, one of the fastest growing areas in Washington, DC. Over 40,000 residents have moved there in the last 12 years. the and then East of the river, where there's been a real concentration of social services that, you know, we need as a city.

00:18:02:01 - 00:18:24:13

Unknown

But, you know, there's been a real a decades long lack of investment, right? the and I don't want to sound to, you know, speak with hyperbole. But in DC over the last 15 years, as we've gained 100,000 residents, right? We've been seeing neighborhoods change. Typically that would take place. Change and dynamism that would happen in a generation or two are happening overnight.

00:18:24:13 - 00:18:44:23

Unknown

Right. So it's the, you know, east of the river in Ward seven. And Ward eight is sort of one of the last chances to get it. Right. Right. the of how do you invest in underinvested neighborhoods while ensuring local residents aren't just surviving, but they're really thriving, right. Which is something that, as the Bridge Park is sort of widened, its aperture is, trying to address as well.

00:18:45:00 - 00:19:04:23

Unknown

Yeah, yeah. And I and I'm excited because we're going to get into some examples of that in just a little bit. And, and I'm thinking about again, the structure of the park and the Bridge park. Okay. If you've made this, this piece of infrastructure into a park and, you know, at TPL Park, equity is a major priority for us.

00:19:04:23 - 00:19:26:08

Unknown

And we firmly believe that everybody has a right to experience nature and all the benefits that come with nature. And we, you know, we we're driven by a principle where we think everybody across the US, whether it's in the urban areas, whether it's in rural areas, can be within a ten minute walk of a, of a quality park.

00:19:26:10 - 00:19:50:24

Unknown

And, you know, 12 years ago, 11 years ago and conversations about Bridge Park started to come up, you know as well as I do, and not just unique to DC, but residents in cities everywhere, when they learn about new developments or any sort of infrastructure investment, especially over the last, I would say, ten years specifically, people start to their ears might perk up, they start to listen about what is this?

00:19:50:24 - 00:20:19:21

Unknown

What does this mean for me? What are the implications associated with this investment? And not just financially, but like culturally, you know, what does this mean for those social those social institutions that you were just naming what does it mean for housing? Right. Displacement is a is a really, chronic issue all over. And I can't remember. I mean, I've been in this environmental space for most of my career, and I can't remember when the term green gentrification really started to gain traction.

00:20:19:23 - 00:20:56:05

Unknown

But it's certainly a legitimate issue, and it's certainly a legitimate concern for the communities. And I think that's why at TPL, we prioritize community engagement on the level that we do, so that we can ensure that we are not a part of any sort of displacing it in terms of these green spaces that are being installed or retrofitted or even built from scratch, and making sure that green gentrification isn't going to be a result of anything that we're involved in, or we want to make sure people are benefiting from our engagements and not being burdened by them, and definitely not being displaced.

00:20:56:07 - 00:21:20:00

Unknown

And I know firsthand, through my involvement with many of the community engagement efforts, that 11th Street Bridge Park hosted, I know that the process was very community centered. I know that the process is a community based design, but I also know that during these initial stages, there were folks who were kind of concerned about is this going to be another situation where I'm going to be excluded?

00:21:20:00 - 00:21:57:09

Unknown

I'm not going to be able to be involved. I'm not going to actually benefit from this thing. And so I think that the approach that was taken in actually creating a truly community centered, community guided process is, is really unique. And I think about it in terms of community wholeness. And so I would love if you can share with our listening audience and me for the 30th time, the approach that was taken in this, this equitable development to keep the community whole or even in some instances, perhaps better off, you know, just a quick sidebar.

00:21:57:09 - 00:22:18:03

Unknown

It's like you think about or I think about when I go backpacking or hiking and there's the Leave No Trace principles where, you know, if somebody is coming behind me, they shouldn't even know that I was there because there's no evidence of my presence, maybe a footprint, and that should be about it. And maybe I did some cleaning along the trail along the way, leaving something better.

00:22:18:05 - 00:22:36:05

Unknown

And I think about the bridge in that way. If you're coming in and you're investing in the community, you're actually hopefully uplifting the community so that it is better off as a result of this project. So can you talk to us about what the processes were, have been? Yeah, I think, at its core, at its foundation, all of this has to do with trust, right?

00:22:36:05 - 00:22:54:18

Unknown

And we need to recognize, for all of the reasons I just mentioned, why there is a significant trust deficit. Right. and justifiable trust deficit. Right. People have come in and probably people who look a lot like me have come in and like made a lot of promises, right. And for a variety of reasons, those promises haven't been fulfilled.

00:22:54:18 - 00:23:11:14

Unknown

So I think, you know, sometimes when these projects happen, the first time the community hears about it, there's already renderings, there's already drawings and and the cake has already been 80% baked at that point. Right. You're just talking about what kind of color frosting it's going to be instead of like, what kind of cake should be? Should we even have a cake?

00:23:11:14 - 00:23:34:11

Unknown

Right. so and I think gluten free. Right. Like, you know, maybe you want a muffin where the, and I think for us that was really critical of going out before engaging a single engineer, landscape architect, architect, having meetings with community leaders of the, of should we even do this, in essence, sort of asking for permission?

00:23:34:14 - 00:23:56:21

Unknown

No community leader wants to be the last to find out about some big, important investment that's happening their community, even if it's for good intentions. So we spent two years, the talking to faith leaders and elected leaders and, civic associations and saying like, hey, here's what other cities around across the country have transformed infrastructure into green spaces.

00:23:56:21 - 00:24:25:08

Unknown

Here's what we're trying to do. What do you think? Dumb idea. Good idea. Right. And only after those first couple hundred meetings when we saw some enthusiasm, to be sure, some skepticism, we said, all right, well, then help us shape it. Help us make sure that every single programing element is being driven by local residents ideas, like an environmental education center, a performance space, the a safe place to play in intergenerational play space, access to the river, particularly from the east side of the river.

00:24:25:08 - 00:24:51:02

Unknown

And we baked all those ideas into a larger international design competition. And, you know, I at the time I was volunteering and I took two weeks off from my day job to, work at the building museum where we worked with teens from the area from east to the river that were participating in a program called the Summer Youth Employment Program, and their job was to design the park again, this was a year or two before we actually did the formal design competition.

00:24:51:02 - 00:25:12:11

Unknown

And so I called in a lot of favors and brought in park planners and designers, architects and engineers, and these young men and women created these, you know, these five foot long, foam core models of what the park should be. And when we launched the design competition, we kept taking these images, the and the actual models of what these young men and women design and said, this is your inspiration.

00:25:12:11 - 00:25:41:20

Unknown

These are your future park users, right? And I'd never run a design competition before, but when I was doing research for many design competitions, I saw the designers, the architects, engineers, landscape architects had no connection to the client, us more or less the community. And that wasn't the ethos that we were trying to, you know, follow. So we created something that we called our Design Oversight Committee that was comprised of about three dozen stakeholders from both sides of the river and across the city, but primarily in local neighborhoods.

00:25:41:22 - 00:25:59:05

Unknown

And their job was to review the design brief. This was our Bible that, you know, we were going to run the design competition, make some pretty significant edits, meet our four final design teams during the design process. I think it was the single thing that kind of freaked out our designers because they weren't used to like, wait, what?

00:25:59:07 - 00:26:27:09

Unknown

Like we're supposed to go away in our ivory tower and think, think thoughts from like, accountability. What it's like this. And and that was so critical because even though we were work, I mean, we had 81 teams from across the world applying for this design competition, some of the best designers on the planet, but each one of them, the community, this advisory committee, this design oversight committee identified one, if not multiple red flags that that would have been during the iterative design process.

00:26:27:15 - 00:26:51:00

Unknown

that made the parks better. And at the end, most importantly, at the end of this eight month design competition, you know, we had exhibitions in, the at the Smithsonian Anacostia Community Museum and our, our offices at the Arc and AIDC American Institute Architects DC chapter. We surveyed folks. We took all of that information and ultimately the Design Oversight Committee, this group of stakeholders are the ones that selected the design.

00:26:51:00 - 00:27:14:05

Unknown

So I didn't get to vote. Right. The community voted, and I think the more that where we can put that decision making power, not advisory, but like true decision making power in the hands of local residents is critical. Right. And the design that they selected, unanimously, the was for the architecture firm OMA and the landscape architecture firm of all.

00:27:14:05 - 00:27:30:05

Unknown

And that was brilliant. And I think what you were getting at in that question, too, though, is that, you know, when we were out there talking to the community and hearing what the local residents wanted on this park, you know, we heard all these great ideas that we baked into the design competition, but we heard a much deeper need.

00:27:30:09 - 00:27:55:00

Unknown

We heard a need for housing, for jobs, for how to support black owned businesses, how to how to provide pathways for in a building intergenerational wealth. How do we, support arts and cultural organizations not reinvent it, but support existing work by amazing nonprofits? the and cultural leaders to questions that we ask a lot internally is, you know, who is this project for and who's going to benefit.

00:27:55:02 - 00:28:15:12

Unknown

two related but slightly different questions. And, and we said, hey, this is a chance to to think about the development of this signature park in a very different way. Like, we know what we know what's going to happen from examples across the United States, across the world of if there isn't a level of intentionality, the we know there's the potential of displacement and gentrification.

00:28:15:12 - 00:28:58:11

Unknown

And if we wait until the park opens, like the market is going to move so much faster than we could possibly respond to it. So we tried to say, all right, well, then maybe there's a different path to think about this work really early with intentions, with intentions and put community at the center. So right after we announced the design team winter and fall of 2014, we spent a year, the working with amazing nonprofits and cdfis like Lisk, DC, DC Fiscal Policy Institute, the DC Office of Planning, the senior evaluation team from the Urban Institute to think about where there are intentional strategies that we could we could, implement well in advance

00:28:58:11 - 00:29:19:13

Unknown

of the park opening up to ensure that we're answering those two questions. Who is this for and who's going to benefit? So we spent a year working with local nonprofits, the city leaders, the faith leaders to create a series of actionable strategies that we call our equitable development plan. We launched our first equitable development plan in December 2015.

00:29:19:15 - 00:29:41:14

Unknown

we're now on our third version, and I won't go through all of the 34 strategies, but just to mention a few to give your listeners a sort of flavor. You know, we we've stood up a community land trust to the Douglas Community Land Trust is now a separate nonprofit that has over 260 units of permanently affordable housing controlled by the community, two thirds of the board or east of the river residents.

00:29:41:16 - 00:30:03:24

Unknown

We've seen 153 east of the river. Renters become homeowners who've gone through and graduated to our homebuyers club, and we're now offering down payment assistance and cash loans. And we just graduated our 38th construction training program, because if we're spending all this money to build the park, we need to make sure that as much of those dollars go into the local community as possible.

00:30:03:24 - 00:30:27:16

Unknown

But to do that, to be successful at that goal, we need to make sure that local residents have the skill set and capacity to apply for and succeed at these jobs. So we now have over 250 east of the river. Residents who've gone through our construction training programs and have been employed in the construction trades. So when we break ground this fall, you know, we can present the general contractor with over 250 names of east of the river residents.

00:30:27:18 - 00:30:54:13

Unknown

the so the last thing I'll say on this is that this continues to be an iterative process. We haven't done everything right. We've, you know, made some mistakes along the way and learned the lessons. and part of the process for that is from the beginning, we've been working with a senior team from the Urban Institute to document this work, as well as, most importantly, provide a real time feedback loop of what are we getting right and what are we getting wrong, so we can of course correct along the way.

00:30:54:15 - 00:31:23:04

Unknown

That's so there's so much depth there and my brain's like bouncing all over the place because I'm also hearing a little bit of resonance too with the one of the approaches I want to shout out our community school yards team, who takes a similar approach in going into the community and actually engaging with the youth, like the very, very little youth and what kind of a playground they actually want to, you know, embody and see for themselves and their families and the other residents surrounding this school come and they contribute.

00:31:23:04 - 00:31:45:01

Unknown

And it's it's very much, you own this, you did this, you know, take pride in what this is that you created. And so I, I appreciate hearing another echo of that with this whole process. I think it's really important. And you referred to yourself, there's some folks who might just be listening, but for the folks who are not watching this, it's got, I think you just identify as a white guy, right?

00:31:45:03 - 00:32:06:06

Unknown

That's correct. Yeah. When you said folks who look like me, I don't want people to make any assumptions. And so in case a white guy from Capitol Hill I. DC is my home and I've lived there for 19 years, but I'm not a native. And, you know, and I recognize that. So, Scott, you know, I mean, we both fully are in agreement that the 11th Street Bridge is sensitive to a remarkable process.

00:32:06:06 - 00:32:27:08

Unknown

And even with the fits and starts, all of the good and and all of the challenging, and I think that there are probably other examples, across the country of large scale parks that people really kind of value, that maybe don't have a great history in terms of how they were built and when they were built and what some of their results are.

00:32:27:08 - 00:32:48:19

Unknown

So maybe there could be an example that you can share about where equitable development was not the rule in this practice. Sure. And, the practice of park building, I should say. Yeah, yeah. No. And it's always a little dangerous to, go back in 100 plus years and sort of put our own contemporary values. But that's, but here, here's here's what I do.

00:32:48:19 - 00:33:12:15

Unknown

Yeah. I'm glad you're here. So, I mean, I'll give a great example. you know, the incredibly beloved Central Park and New York City, right. that was designed or to be the and remains the continues to this day the lungs of the city, right in this, amazing space. But, you know, at the same time, it displaced, the hundreds, thousands of African American families to build that park.

00:33:12:15 - 00:33:37:03

Unknown

And so when we think about sort of theme that I think is emerging from the conversation of who is the park for and who's going to benefit, right? And was built for those residents, obviously, that were displaced. Again, it's difficult to put ourselves in a time machine and go back to that point. But, you know, think if there was true participation, the by the immediate residents nearby, I would imagine that the residents who were displaced would say like, oh, well, hold on, maybe we shouldn't be displaced.

00:33:37:05 - 00:34:03:03

Unknown

And like, maybe we can help design sort of the park so that there is, the, the that there is true ownership. Right. And I think that also just, going off in a little bit of a tangent here, when we're designing these parks and civic spaces, because sometimes it doesn't always happen to really understand the history, really understand the, complicated and traumatic history, the of a place, before we go in is really essential.

00:34:03:03 - 00:34:22:06

Unknown

Like, I'm a history geek. And so I've gone in and read as much as I can about the neighborhood around, Anacostia and sort of, again, as somebody who's not native to Washington, D.C., it is my home and has been for nearly 20 years. But, understanding that history is, is, really critical because then you then you have context, right?

00:34:22:06 - 00:34:45:10

Unknown

And I think without context, you can inadvertently, you know, make some, not so smart decisions. I agree 100%. I often think about them as racial equity impact assessments. And so it gives you a chance to examine the history, but also the policies. You know, we we it's very easy to call out redlining. It's very easy to call out, you know, transportation, divisions that were intentional.

00:34:45:10 - 00:35:04:07

Unknown

But there's also other policies that are also there that you have to investigate. In going back to the Central Park example, I mean, there are so many people that do not know the story of the displacement of all of those Black families and residents. And that form of erasure is very offensive to me. Right? It's it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that happened then.

00:35:04:07 - 00:35:27:12

Unknown

But look at what we have today. And it's like, no, no, no, there's so much more to the story. So I do appreciate having a comprehensive conversation where we don't kind of just start in the middle of the story, but we do go back because there is a lot of responsibility back there. We have to go upstream. when we're thinking about advancements in our in our civic spaces and our policies and the like.

00:35:27:12 - 00:35:47:12

Unknown

So thank you for that. Well, and it's interesting because the third version of our equitable development plan that we, released earlier this week, earlier this year, excuse me, has explicit policy recommendations. the first two did not the and, you know, became very clear that, you know, there's over $1 billion of economic development that's coming east of the river.

00:35:47:12 - 00:36:12:08

Unknown

Like, take the Bridge Park out of the equation and if we're really looking at attacking that systemic racism that is so baked in that has led to the outcomes that we have today, we need to address this from a policy perspective. Now that makes nonprofits nervous, right? Because this is not necessarily our, strong suit, but we're looking to see where we can where we can partner with other organizations to really attack some of those outcomes at their root cause.

00:36:12:08 - 00:36:33:18

Unknown

Right. and that's, you know, a little nervous and really exciting sort of all at the same time, I, I have referred to the different approaches that are strategies that you have you all have built into it. I refer to them as pillars. So the housing, the workforce development, the small business enterprise, the arts and cultural equity and and the health and wellness.

00:36:33:18 - 00:36:54:09

Unknown

I don't know if you call them pillars or elements, but I wanted to talk a little bit about the workforce pillar. I want to think about, you know, the cities that TPL works with and all of the resources and guidance that we provide with our communities of practice and our our bridge scores and and the like, and what we've been learning, for years now.

00:36:54:09 - 00:37:17:00

Unknown

In many cities, park budgets are often the first thing that gets cut. That's constraints. Sometimes people will look as I look at a park as a nice to have, as opposed to something that's a critical piece of infrastructure. And I think sometimes as I'm learning, part of what drives that decision is that it's the stewardship and the maintenance of the park that just feels too costly.

00:37:17:02 - 00:37:33:05

Unknown

And it's kind of this vicious cycle. So you might have a leader, mayor, or maybe a city planner who says, you know, we got to cut the budget. It's going to have to be for this park. And then maybe there's another campaign where a new person comes in and they say, no, we want to invest in the park.

00:37:33:05 - 00:37:52:06

Unknown

And it's a vicious cycle. Every four years or however long their term is, and it just can't get traction. And this is one question I don't think I've ever asked until I started thinking about this conversation. When we talk about 11th Street, Bridge Park, who owns that park, who is responsible for the maintenance and their stewardship for that park?

00:37:52:06 - 00:38:20:01

Unknown

And then with that, how do we ensure that it is sustainable that there is a commitment, for that place, that magical places, lifeline, lifeline or lifetime, I should say that. Well, it will always be cared for that people will always, you know, trust that when they're there, the education center is going to be open and operating fully, that the performance building doesn't have crumbling stages or infrastructure or anything along those lines.

00:38:20:01 - 00:38:41:01

Unknown

So who's going to be responsible for maintaining this thing? Yeah. Now great question. So from the beginning this has been a public private partnership. So I work for a nonprofit, appropriately enough, called Building Bridges Across the River. Yes. that predates the Bridge Park. surprisingly. But I don't think the founders thought that we were literally going to build a bridge.

00:38:41:01 - 00:38:59:24

Unknown

But when we ran into metaphors, we're now literally building a bridge across the river. And I think that's important because, you know, we we run a facility called THEARC Town Hall education, Arts and Recreation campus that the houses, co-locate 14 best in class nonprofits east of the river. And so, you know, we have a lot of experience running facilities.

00:39:00:01 - 00:39:18:01

Unknown

We are we have been working from the beginning with the city, with the District of Columbia government. the as I mentioned originally with the Office of Planning and the but, for the last 8 or 9 years, it's been working very closely with the District Department of Transportation, a sister agency from OPI. and the city owns the asset.

00:39:18:01 - 00:39:36:02

Unknown

So the city owns will own the park, will own the Bridge Park. When the old bridges came down, we saved the old piers and the pilings that are underneath the old freeway bridge. One of the most expensive parts about building any river bridge is. I've learned so many things about engineering on this project that I had no idea the.

00:39:36:02 - 00:39:52:17

Unknown

And then we're going to build a new deck that's on top, but one that no longer holds cars or tractor trailers, but that holds these community generated programing spaces. so the city, when the park opens, in a few short years, the city will own it. And then we building bridges across the river will run, operate and manage it.

00:39:52:20 - 00:40:17:05

Unknown

So, bridges need to be inspected every year. That's on the city. Right? So I can just build that into their regular bridge inspections and then building bridges across the river. We're finalizing our public space permit not to get too in the weeds, but, to then run and manage this for the lifetime of the project. So that means landscaping rangers, the programing lights burn out like that's on us.

00:40:17:07 - 00:40:42:17

Unknown

and I think that brings the best of the both, well, complicated the, the best of the public and the private. Right. the to the table. So we have built in a number of earned revenue strategies to make sure we're not reliant on that boom and bust economy of, cities that, as you mentioned, often happens and, and really made sure we built that into the design competition because that's really important.

00:40:42:17 - 00:40:59:13

Unknown

We do not want to be reliant on the city for, you know, dollar one from, maintaining this park. But then we also need to make sure we're holding ourselves accountable. And we're you know, someone asked me the other day, we had a public meeting and, community members said, okay, so the park opens and then the equitable development plan is done.

00:40:59:14 - 00:41:17:01

Unknown

Like, no, no, no, that's where it gets really exciting, right? I mean, that's where we need to make sure that the performance spaces continue to amplify the voices of local residents, that the people that are in the 40 some odd staff who are going to be on the park, right, keeping it maintained reflects the community that we serve right?

00:41:17:01 - 00:41:43:09

Unknown

So we're not thinking about just construction jobs. We're thinking of people doing programing and fundraising and environmental education. The educators in the environmental education center, the so making sure we're holding ourselves accountable and the communities holding ourselves accountable to run and manage this in perpetuity. and I think that's really important because so often, you know, those high publicity moments of the ribbon cutting when the bright, shiny park opens.

00:41:43:09 - 00:42:02:22

Unknown

But, you know, how do we make sure and two, three, ten park directors later. Right. the this is built on a strong economic foundation. the that also make sure that we're holding ourselves true to the promise we've made to the community that this is for them and this will benefit them. I really appreciate that. And it feels very institutional.

00:42:02:22 - 00:42:22:24

Unknown

Right. It feels like this is becoming an institution and there's something that feels long lasting and sustainable all to me when I think about it in that framing. And so going back to this notion about like, perfectly imperfect, you name the, you know, some of the things that you've learned way, and I know, you know, talking about time scales, right?

00:42:22:24 - 00:42:49:17

Unknown

When we go into communities and we get them excited about these opportunities that they're helping us co-create and co build, there's a lot of nurturing that needs to take place from ideation to delivery. Right. And you started to touch on that, about how you're maintaining, the engagement with the folks. So using, you know, BBAR, building bridges across the river, and all of the programing that happens there.

00:42:49:17 - 00:43:16:11

Unknown

And I, you know, I've even gone to a couple of meditation classes over there. when that got built in the black box theater and gone over there for performances, I saw Robert Glasper over in THEARC, which was amazing. So it's it's a wonderful institution, but it's also far away from the park in a way. So, you can't actually see you can't see the location if you're over on either side of the river.

00:43:16:13 - 00:43:41:17

Unknown

but I'm thinking about, there's been a delay in the opening. I think the last time I talk to you, I didn't ask, like, when are we actually thinking now? What's. What's the grand opening? When are we breaking ground on this? On this incredible bridge? Yeah. So, we are at 100% design, which is really exciting. We, you know, we just had a, our big annual public meeting back in February.

00:43:41:17 - 00:44:00:24

Unknown

And, as I was pulling together the slides for giggles, I pulled together the number of federal and local agencies that we've had to get permits or approval from. And it's been 30, so 30 different federal and local agencies. So there's like someone in the community asked me the other day in good naturedly, but they were like, you know, why is this taking so long?

00:44:00:24 - 00:44:20:19

Unknown

And I was like, well, when you're transforming a former federal highway over navigable body of water wedged between the National Park Service and an active Department of Defense installation, you know, there's there's a lot of chefs in the kitchen and, but I'm happy to report that we're down to the last three permits that we should have in hand at the end of this month, early June.

00:44:20:19 - 00:44:46:05

Unknown

So, our partners at DDOT, the district Department of Transportation, should solicitor general contractor in June select the GC, by fall and break ground this fall. And we anticipate about 24 to 30 months of construction. So opening up in late 2026, early 2027, we are splitting the cost of the construction. So, the city's putting in half of the money.

00:44:46:05 - 00:45:15:18

Unknown

We're raising the other half through private philanthropy. We've applied for some, federal, the competitive grants that we've been successful at. We're at about 3.5 million to go, and we've already invested over $92 million in our equitable development strategies. So if you think about that, like, you know, the city hasn't started spending money on the construction yet and it's already catalyzed $92 million of equitable development strategies in these housing and workforce and small business, efforts.

00:45:15:18 - 00:45:32:01

Unknown

So it's a pretty good return on that investment. I never thought this was going to be ten years. Like, I remember early on having a conversation, with a colleague, another park professional, and just. Oh, well, let me see your timeline. The subtext there was, you know, you realize this is going to be at least a ten year thing, right?

00:45:32:01 - 00:46:03:00

Unknown

And I was like, oh, look at my plan. We're going to be open by 2019 or whatever. Like ridiculous. Yeah, yeah. And the and I didn't think it was going to take that long. We have had a pandemic, weather permitting has taken much longer. It's been very complicated working, navigating that public private partnership, to be sure, working with a sort of scrappy nonprofit like ourselves who want to, you know, move fast and test and pilot things in the city, that tends to be a little bit more, those systems tends to be a little bit more bureaucratic, because we never want to be a whatever happened to dot, dot, dot.

00:46:03:00 - 00:46:26:22

Unknown

Right. so, you know, we have, monthly community walking tours where we give updates, to local residents and we have these big town hall sessions where we give an update on all of our equitable development work, and we bring our design team in for that. We just last weekend had our 10th annual Anacostia River Festival. the which was delightful, is a little drippy and a little, rainy.

00:46:26:22 - 00:46:49:08

Unknown

But, I didn't make it. I felt so bad. I thought I was more of a trooper, and I was just, you know, I'm looking at my dog and I'm looking outside, and, But I'm really happy to hear you bring it up. So confessing very publicly that I didn't make it like I thought I would. And but you're starting to lead me into a question that I wanted to ask around that notion, around keeping hope alive.

00:46:49:08 - 00:47:34:23

Unknown

So those town halls, it's keep our keeping hope alive. Those tours are keeping hope alive. But the the annual River Fest is just been growing exponentially year over year. And I think that's one of the engagement, the community engagement tools that I really love because it is so festive and it's educational and it's art. There's a lot of culture, there's a lot of arts, and it's one of the times I experience where I see this like semblance of what I think DC really is, is when that event takes place, that is where we see all of the best engagements across all of our demographics represented at that River festival, and it's fantastic.

00:47:34:23 - 00:47:59:19

Unknown

And I think that is definitely one of the the ways that you all are continuing to nurture us as we are now waiting for beginning of 2027, early 2020. So I'm just going to say I'm not going to say 26, because then it happens in 2026. Expectations. There we go. Yeah. So I'll just say our early 2027 and bringing together people, I mean, not just together, both sides of the river and the entire city to be proximate with each other.

00:47:59:19 - 00:48:17:10

Unknown

But they're like dancing with each other. They're like, you know, getting out on the water together in canoes and they're, you know, doing fishing workshops together. And it gives and a single afternoon, you know, on a on a Sunday or day like last year. Yeah. we had 10,000 people, that came down to the banks of the Anacostia River.

00:48:17:10 - 00:48:39:11

Unknown

And on this single afternoon gave the community a taste of what will happen 365 days of the year when the park opens. And it gives us this, this wonderful idea, wonderful opportunity to test and pilot programing. So we're not, guessing when the park opens, right. the but we're, you know, we have an idea of what the community is really responding to and logistic things.

00:48:39:11 - 00:48:58:24

Unknown

And where do people park. And we're I mean, we survey everybody that comes down. How are people getting their they walking, are they taking public transit. Are they biking. You know, all of that. so the work is really important. And finally, you know, it normalizes that behavior of getting people underneath the freeway underpass, right? That's sort of one of those barriers we talked about in the beginning of the conversations.

00:48:59:01 - 00:49:15:12

Unknown

to activate the park where we land east of the river is in Anacostia Park. It's a National Park Service, and our annual Anacostia River Festival is a larger collaboration with NPS. They've been really wonderful partners. You know, it's a really beautiful afternoon. And I just can't wait in a few short years when that it's gonna happen every day.

00:49:15:12 - 00:49:36:17

Unknown

So yeah. Yeah, that's really remarkable. I, I love it so much. And before we wrap up, I, I've got two more questions and then I'll set you free. one is a little bit more philosophical. The other is really around some of the challenges or things that you've learned that you didn't explicitly name. But as I mentioned, at the top, you know, it was the tale of two cities.

00:49:36:17 - 00:50:10:09

Unknown

And with the community kind of being bridged in the middle. And I was having a conversation with, one of my colleagues at TPL, his name is Will Klein. So much respect for a well, he's our, associate director for park research. And just. I learned so much from him. And we were walking. Walking along the river. He mentioned the idea that parks are some of the the last, representations of democracy and neutral spaces and places where people from all walks of life can come together and be together.

00:50:10:09 - 00:50:36:16

Unknown

And I just, you know, thinking about our digital age and the tensions that we have, particularly with some of the younger generations who are connected to machines that fit in their pockets, and all of the challenges that we're also facing around this polarization. So I'm just curious if the notion of this, this bridge, this park, or any part for that matter, that notion of it being a democratized like neutral space, does that ring true for you?

00:50:36:18 - 00:51:07:18

Unknown

It does. We intentionally use the phrase civic space when describing the park. Right. Okay. It's interesting. I just finished, reading, recently Steha Low's book, Why Public Space Matters, and she really leans in to that, importance of bringing together people who otherwise might not rub elbows. Right. And in a time where we increasingly are more and more segregated on the right by income, by race, by political beliefs, the we desperately need more places that we can bring together people.

00:51:07:20 - 00:51:28:10

Unknown

And it it it breaks down the the us versus them. It's a, it's a real pronoun shift into, into a we, you know, course accessible which I hope we are when you're at our muscle Beach intergenerational play space. Right. And there's parents from both sides of the river, and kids like playing together, like, and having conversations together, like, that's that's critical.

00:51:28:10 - 00:51:54:04

Unknown

That's like that. That then means in a time of deep polarization where there's so many forces demonizing sort of the other. Right. Fill in the blank of how you want to describe the other. We need those opportunities to connect. And and it happens. I'll give you one sort of anecdote. During the pandemic, gyms were closed and everything, and I would run along the Anacostia River, and there was this pirate playground in Anacostia Park with this little, workout equipment.

00:51:54:04 - 00:52:11:01

Unknown

I think that TPL sort of installed many, many years ago. Many, many. And I met a buddy of mine who lives in Anacostia and we'd run down there and and we got to know by working out there, we got to know, this gentleman named Jeff who lives east of the river. he is an ambassador of one of the local bids.

00:52:11:07 - 00:52:28:05

Unknown

And, you know, we start chatting and then during the when vaccines became available. I know this seems like an eternity ago, but, you know, it was sort of The Hunger Games for vaccines, like when that was happening and like, it was just anyways. And Jeff was commenting on how he and his kids were having a hard time finding like, vaccines.

00:52:28:05 - 00:52:40:13

Unknown

And so and we were offering free vaccination at THEARC, near their offices. So we connected with Jeff, who was able to come with his kids and like, and we're now friends, right. Like we see each other regularly. We see each other on the street. We say like, hey, how are you doing? You know, how are your kids?

00:52:40:13 - 00:52:58:05

Unknown

And like, and that's the power of public space, right? the that like, if not for, the, that green space, that workout space, that place of convening like I, you know, we never would have connected and that happens you know, that can happen again if we're successful for having a million visitors a year. That coming to the park, right?

00:52:58:05 - 00:53:22:21

Unknown

That's a million opportunities for people to have that experience. So absolutely, a civic space. And I and I just always get thrilled to when we think about our collective well-being around our health, you know, in the way that people have been connecting in these spaces and activating all kinds of tools and resources for our well-being. And and I think it's, you know, probably the most obvious thing to say about the Covid pandemic when it launched.

00:53:22:21 - 00:53:44:20

Unknown

I mean, the parks were all we had outdoors was all we had. And people had, gained new appreciation for what it really means to be outside. And for many families and individuals, it was a first time thing. And now I don't think they can stop themselves. They realize how much they gain from it. so, you know, really quick, I always like ending on a high note, but I also like ending with some humility, you know?

00:53:44:20 - 00:54:08:14

Unknown

And so we've been lifting up the 11th Street Bridge Park under, at least in my perspective, being like this really great model for so many of us. But I do want to not let you leave without talking about some of the most difficult challenges that you've had, whether it's around funding or working with the community. And maybe people were protesting, you named, you know, the anxiety that people have about it.

00:54:08:14 - 00:54:31:16

Unknown

When is this thing going to open and is equitable development going to be over once the park is built? But I imagine that there probably have been a few contested moments that you had to experience. And as a leader now, can you share a little bit about what those a what a situation might have been? And if there's anything that you would do differently if you had to do it all over again?

00:54:31:18 - 00:55:06:16

Unknown

yeah. I want to take one second. Yeah. talking another half an hour, because we have not done everything right. And but it's important to, and to recognize and pull those lessons and I'll give you, you know, maybe a couple different examples. I think of one of our public meetings. This was sort of early on, and it was you get in my presentation and we then had things open for, you know, questions and comments and, and I was just getting hammered, the by this resident resident east of the river and, who has just really taken me to task and, and and it wasn't I think two lessons came out there.

00:55:06:16 - 00:55:25:20

Unknown

One is, you know, not to take it personally. Like, you know, they they were really frustrated. And there were, decades of frustrations that were sort of coming out. Right. We just happened to be the vehicle. And, but my big takeaway is that, you know, I was trying my best to to listen respectfully and then to respond, the and try and address these questions.

00:55:25:20 - 00:55:44:21

Unknown

And, but I just, I wasn't hitting the mark and like, I think he left still frustrated. the and a mentor of mine, a woman by the name of Oramenta Newsome, the who ran this amazing community development financial institution called Lisc DC early supporter of the project came up to me afterwards and she's like, I gotta go.

00:55:44:21 - 00:56:07:09

Unknown

And it's like we were here, like, not so great. And, she's like, you know, sometimes you don't have to respond to every question. Sometimes people just want to be heard. Right? the and because they haven't been heard in a long time. Right. And that was just a really important lesson of respectfully. And that doesn't mean, the ignore it.

00:56:07:09 - 00:56:26:22

Unknown

It's like, take it in, you know, the and but give people a platform to speak and then try and do something and act on it. Right. but that was a really sort of critical, important lesson. And I think some of the other lessons are, partnerships are, you know, all funders want people to partner and you should partner with this group.

00:56:26:22 - 00:56:48:20

Unknown

And, and partnerships are really hard. Right. public private partnerships, of which this is the foundation of the project, are really hard. In the ideal world, we can both bring, you know, we can bring this sort of spirit of innovation and, and the city or the municipality can bring the resources and deep experience. But there's we need to acknowledge that there's a huge culture shift, right?

00:56:48:20 - 00:57:08:16

Unknown

Or a culture potential for culture clash that has happened right now. And when we, wrapped up our design competition, the city came to us and said this was and they were involved in this. They were part of our governance committee. But they said this was the most open and transparent competition we've ever been involved in. And it still isn't our competition.

00:57:08:16 - 00:57:23:01

Unknown

So we're going to have to redo the competition. And my head exploded. What do you mean? We just spent a year building trust in the community. Now you want to redo this and like we you and we found a a path forward. the to make sure we could get the design team that the community selected in there.

00:57:23:01 - 00:57:42:07

Unknown

But, you know, it's it's really hard and I'm sure I'm sure the city is just as frustrated as we are at times. Right. But like, we need to find those trusted partners that we can move the project forward. And on a nonprofit to nonprofit connection, one of our big lessons is that we need to make sure that the nonprofits that we partner with share the same values.

00:57:42:09 - 00:57:59:16

Unknown

the because that's that's not always the case. And I don't mean, you know, one organization is bad and the other is good. It's not that sort of binary. It's the we need to make sure we share the same approach. And now when we partner with other nonprofits, we actually spend the first couple of months like creating value statements to make sure that we're on the same page.

00:57:59:16 - 00:58:24:14

Unknown

And, and that's really critical. We're building, you know, trust within our partners, but we're also making sure we're we're setting very clear and written down expectations, the that that both organizations will follow. And finally, you know, I, I keep coming back to that word trust. But a colleague of mine, down Atlanta, the said once that change moves at the speed of trust.

00:58:24:14 - 00:58:49:22

Unknown

Right. And like I think that's so critical. The trust is about shared experiences over time and delivering on your word. Right. And trust is extraordinarily fragile. the you you make one misstep and you can, you know, sort of lose immediately lose trust. So having this constant feedback loop, having and making sure the community is holding us accountable, the making sure that the staff of the Bridge Park reflects the community that we serve.

00:58:49:24 - 00:59:13:21

Unknown

the bringing those voices inside our conference rooms, the on a daily basis is really critical. So lots and lots of lessons learned. That's great. And I, I really do appreciate, I mean, trust is is critical accountability essential relationships are everything. And I also appreciate the kind of the multitude of relationship types that have to be established.

00:59:13:21 - 00:59:36:00

Unknown

And, you know, in my brain, when I think about equitable development, it feels so basic, like, come on, it's it's everything, right? It's an ecosystem approach. But people are not accustomed, to getting outside of their institutional comfort zones. You know, I mean, this this is what I do. This is what my organization represents. This is what my business represents.

00:59:36:00 - 00:59:58:11

Unknown

And so the public private partnership, the the civic engagement, all of those things, you know, it's it's very colorful. It's very dynamic. It's very complicated. And people don't always have the patience. The fact that you've been doing this for 12 years is just kind of mind blowing. I think there, you know, a lot of folks don't stay in one place for that long, particularly lifting something like this up.

00:59:58:11 - 01:00:15:04

Unknown

So kudos to you for sticking through it because I don't I, you know, and what is a handoff for something like this even look like. Right. So that's the other thing that has to be discussed when you're building these partnerships is like, how long are you in this for? Because it's going to take a long time and having an honest conversation.

01:00:15:04 - 01:00:43:17

Unknown

And then, you know, if even saying to a partner like, do you have a succession plan or our transition plan, because you might not stay as long as I'm going to, and I don't want to have to do this all over again with you. All right. So there's just so many layers to it. I think. Now the number, particularly in nonprofits, particularly with the city that is just, you know, you need to build that in like every two years that someone's going to, you know, cycle out and you spend those two years building a relationship and understand who you are and connect resources and then boom, they're gone.

01:00:43:17 - 01:01:10:20

Unknown

Right? And you're like, oh, okay, we got to start over again. So not at first it's frustrating, but then you just need to build that in. Right. And and and it is so relational. But I think, not being afraid to widen that aperture and like understand I mean, there is a real dynamic and a real balance you need of like, how do you keep yourself, you know, we're ultimately building this park, but we're, but I don't even know if I'd describe this as a park project anymore.

01:01:10:20 - 01:01:35:11

Unknown

Right. This is an investment in a community strategy. And the park is like a tentpole, but it's not the only one. And, the and where we identify needs in the community, we see where we can harness the resources and the capacity to, to address that. And I'll give you one sort of, you know, maybe final example, during the pandemic, you know, we were deeply concerned that the community was that we serve east of the river was going to be disproportionately impacted by Covid.

01:01:35:11 - 01:02:07:07

Unknown

And unfortunately, that came to pass. They were, you know, because the, you know, it's hard to work from home when you're keeping the city running. Right. we're going to grocery stores and delivering mail. And so we partnered with three other amazing nonprofits to launch what became the largest privately funded unconditional cash transfer program, sort of the cousin to a universal basic income program that's ever been attempted in United States, provided $5,500 in cash to 650 residents, half of the the participating families, made, a household income of $15,000 or less.

01:02:07:07 - 01:02:24:21

Unknown

Like, it's just mind boggling of how to commute, how a family can make that work in Washington, DC. But each of those families received weekly groceries, monthly dry goods, connected them with navigators and and, it was one of the most powerful things I've ever had the honor to be part of. And, you know, just take a step back and you're like, what is it?

01:02:25:01 - 01:02:52:02

Unknown

Unconditional cash transfer program have to do with building a park, right? And like, absolutely everything every like everything of, like thinking about the whole community, thinking about the whole family, thinking about the whole individual. Right. the and I think that has become sort of a larger emblematic for a great example of what we mean when we talk about sort of widening the aperture of what, what this park will mean, the and what our work is trying to achieve.

01:02:52:06 - 01:03:16:14

Unknown

Yeah. I love that so much. And I, you know, I'm not alone, in saying and thinking, as I'm sure. But it's just, kind of restating a little bit about what you're saying about the park. Park is a park. It's a it's a it's it's something that you can see and touch and feel, but it's all of the experiences that surround the park that can actually dictate how impactful that space can be.

01:03:16:16 - 01:03:41:24

Unknown

If people don't have a safe route to get to the park, they're not going to go to the park. So the fact that it exists means very little, because people can't access it because it's not safe, or the infrastructure isn't such that they can come along on a wheelchair or etc. etc., etc. and I, I often say like for me, accessibility actually begins before a person walks out the door because it's about what are you thinking when you wake up in the morning?

01:03:41:24 - 01:04:04:05

Unknown

What are the first concerns that you have, and what do you have access to in your mind? And if the park might not even be on the list of top five, right. So it's but when people are having their other resources met, when they feel like they are, they are seeing they're being recognized and not only being recognized, but actually given the resources that they most, you know, critically need.

01:04:04:07 - 01:04:25:14

Unknown

Then it's like, oh yeah, now I can go to the park because my meal has been taken care of. My children are at school, my children are being fed. My health care is covered now. Hey, y'all, let's go to the park. Right. It seems like there's an order of things. And, without those extra resources and connectivity kind of propositions, it's a park.

01:04:25:17 - 01:04:54:09

Unknown

Sometimes it's just a park. Yeah. And, you know, last summer, like many areas in the city, but we were seeing a real uptick in violence, the after the year two and three and the pandemic and like, so we in the weekend after July 4th, July 4th was a particularly violent one is to the river. the and we held you know, this this I stop the violence meeting the where we asked the community, we asked our local residents like this isn't just to come in and then session like, what are the solutions?

01:04:54:09 - 01:05:14:17

Unknown

And we've been implementing like we're now in for the last two months, we've been running a midnight basketball league. we had a big youth summit. One of the programs, and all of these came from the local residents, one of the ones that we're most excited about. The top need to your point, was mental health, right? the for families that have been experiencing a tremendous amount of trauma.

01:05:14:19 - 01:05:40:15

Unknown

So we have a new partnership with Howard University where we're going to be providing free mental health services. the at the arc, starting this month. Right. so, so that's the sort of thinking about that, you know, addressing that, you know, Maslow's hierarchy, right? the if you, if you don't have your basic needs met, the then the and that's also how you shift from a park maybe to this connects to the beginning part of the conversation of like a nice to have to an essential right.

01:05:40:15 - 01:06:02:06

Unknown

If we're thinking about, the these parks in that sort of broader list of needs for our community. Absolutely. Well, I think that we have covered a lot of really great ground. And I'm so grateful for you and I as a as a host. And you're a guest. I do need to have, proper behavior here and offer you any final thoughts or one closing message.

01:06:02:08 - 01:06:23:10

Unknown

you might want to send. You don't have to, but I don't know if there's something on your mind that you just want to get out before we close this door. well. Thank you. First of all, this has been a, It's always a real treat to chat with you, Ronda Lee. And have this conversation about issues that are so important to both of us that, the connection to nature, the connection to community of what we're trying to accomplish.

01:06:23:10 - 01:06:43:23

Unknown

And it's interesting. Several years ago, I remember I was giving a presentation to park directors, and, I was asked to talk about our equitable development work and, and about midway through that conversation, you know, everybody was looking at me like I'd grown some third head, just like, what are you talking about? You're like, we're we're trying to, you know, build these parks and do the impossible.

01:06:43:23 - 01:06:59:11

Unknown

And now you're asking us to, like, think about homeownership and, you know, workforce development and and I think it's the and so I start my whole presentation kind of set it aside. And I was like, all right, let's have a conversation about this. And I, you know, shared with it's the, you know, either pay now or pay later.

01:06:59:11 - 01:07:18:12

Unknown

Right. And you're going to pay now and make sure that you're and make the investments that are really critical to answer those earlier questions. Who are these civic spaces for, and who is going to benefit. or if you don't, then the community is going to say, well, this isn't for me, right? And and they and they will and probably should stand up and say like, no, I don't want this.

01:07:18:12 - 01:07:44:22

Unknown

Right. the so I think sometimes that not sometimes all the time that takes longer, that takes, you know, a a little more experimenting and trying. But at the end of the day, like, you know, it makes it a richer experience and, and, and and hold true with, with what we're trying to accomplish. The 11th Street Bridge Park when it opens in a few short years, is, first and foremost for the community, by the community, with the community.

01:07:44:22 - 01:08:03:16

Unknown

Right. And that's critical. Excellent. That's a perfect note to end on. I thank you again, Scott. I'm going to set you free to go do whatever it is you have on your on your calendar for today. And, thank you so much and I wish you the best. Thanks for this opportunity, Rhonda. Really appreciate it. All right, Ronda, we're back.

01:08:03:16 - 01:08:21:11

Unknown

I loved that interview. great job. There's so much to dig into there. What a huge project and such a big commitment from everyone over there at the 11th Street Bridge project. All the communities involved. anything else you want to add before we wrap up? No. You know, I don't I don't think I have anything to add.

01:08:21:11 - 01:08:43:12

Unknown

I feel like we've covered a lot. I'm super grateful to Scott Kratz for spending time with me and and having this conversation. And today is May 22nd. And once again, it is parks for a day. And we'll do we every year also have what we call our park bench chat. And we do them throughout the year for different topics, but we always do them for parks score.

01:08:43:15 - 01:09:12:24

Unknown

And so this year, today, May 22nd at 3 p.m. eastern, 12 p.m. Pacific, our own TPL Linda Wong is just an incredible leader. particularly with all of the research and the data and the incredible tools that come out of our land for People Lab, she's going to be revealing the 2024 Park score rankings. She's going to be joining, a conversation with Brooks Nelson, who is the senior manager for community resilience at Walmart.

01:09:12:24 - 01:09:47:16

Unknown

Dot org. Linda is going to be talking to Corey Wilson, who is the superintendent of the Recreation and Park Commission for the Parish of East Baton Rouge and we're also going to be joined by Kimberly Serrano. And Kimberly is the director of the center for Inclusion and Belonging at the American Immigration Council. I think that if folks have an opportunity to listen to this conversation, this podcast episode can chime in and listen, the conversation with the park bench chat and go to TPL, dawg.

01:09:47:16 - 01:10:12:19

Unknown

Backslash, black slash or forward slash park score, all the slashes, all of the slashes. And look at the report. I think that everybody can become an expert on and what we have been able to achieve over the past year and really celebrate all of the parks, every single one of them, all around the country for their contributions, for their existence, for their striving to make communities whole.

01:10:12:21 - 01:10:26:12

Unknown

everybody has so much to learn, and I'm grateful for the work that on behalf of the organization and all of the the champions that we have across the country. Nice. Great. Yeah. So everyone, check out Park Score Chat May 22nd, 3PM eastern.

01:10:26:12 - 01:11:08:24

Ronda, Thanks for doing this. ParkScore day! Happy ParkScore day. Wanna take us out with the outro?

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