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Unknown
Throughout this year, we've heard from so many wonderful guests and people need your big ideas. We've connected with people from all places and backgrounds and across all of their stories. One thing feels so clear to me that access to nature is essential to every single one of us, and that's why TPL is working in communities across the country to protect land and build parks, especially in communities where that work is needed the most.
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Unknown
So this holiday season, you can be a part of this critical work. When you make a gift, you're moving as one step closer to ensuring equitable outdoor access is available to all people. And if you give by December 31st, your gift will be matched for up to $250,000. So thank you. I wish you peace. I wish you warmth.
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Unknown
I wish you safety. And we'll see you in 2025.
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Unknown
Welcome to people nature. Big ideas. Hello there Tom. Hi there. Ronda, how are you? I'm good. I'm getting a little bit antsy because, it's the end of the year, and I'm, like, one week away from two weeks vacation, so I might be ready. Ready? Ready to rock and roll. Senioritis and New Year stuff. Yeah, well, you know, we've reached the end of another calendar year, and this one is a special episode that we've planned, right?
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Unknown
Yeah, yeah. So today is going to be a three part episode. We're going to highlight three TPL projects. We're going to highlight a person, a nature based project, in our nature segment. And then at the end, one really big idea. Does that sound good to you? It sounds great. I mean, I'm on the inside looking out, so I think it's it's actually really good.
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Unknown
So, and this isn't any sort of ranking of projects by importance or value. There's so much to say for the work that the TPL folks are doing. They're all valuable. I am really, really proud to be a member of the TPL community. So this is simply our way of highlighting some of the work that's come to fruition often after years and years of hard work.
00:02:09:06 - 00:02:28:23
Unknown
Yep. That's right. So before we get into our first segment on people, any thoughts? Eight years. And here, for our listeners, you know, I asked you how you were doing. I know you're excited for vacation, but like any reflections you'd like to, to share with the audience things you're excited about, maybe for 2025. Oh, wow.
00:02:28:23 - 00:02:59:09
Unknown
You really. You're really catching me on my feet. You know, I'll. I'll share that. On the one hand, I'm super grateful for this podcast. I'm grateful for all of the access I've had to some really inspiring people. And I'm not just saying that to say that. Right? It's, there's just so many beautiful humans in this world that are doing really good work, and I feel very honored to be able to have a conversation with just a sliver of them who are out there.
00:02:59:11 - 00:03:31:08
Unknown
I think as many of us are looking forward towards this, this new coming, you know, calendar year 2025, there is, a certain kind of energy going into it and there's an energy around, a little bit of scarcity, a little bit of fear. But at the same time, there's also a big push to stay close together. There's a big push to collaborate, to consolidate, to even celebrate where you can.
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Unknown
And then there's also this message you've heard me say many times this year around resting. And so figuring out a way to stay in community, but also have a practice of self-care. And for many of us, that looks like rest and that can actually be 15 minutes between meetings, you know, giving yourself a moment to sit and do a little bit of meditation, maybe do some stretching, go outside, you know, get some fresh air, rejuvenate, drink a lot of water.
00:04:03:05 - 00:04:24:13
Unknown
We need to make sure that our systems are are taken care of in such a way that we can continue to push forward with this work, but to be able to do it with joy. And so this is something that's really heavy on my mind. And so I'm really interested in seeing how we're able to cultivate conversations next year to lift that up.
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Unknown
How are people staying in community? How are people taking care of themselves? What are people letting go of so that they can continue to do both? So I'm really curious to see what we bring forth. So many people have reached out with ideas for folks for us to talk to, and so it's just going to be kind of hard to figure out, you know, how we do it all.
00:04:46:03 - 00:05:09:22
Unknown
Right. But the other thing that I just a closing thought, the other thing I'm really grateful for, is there was a point where we did a quick analysis of our listenership, and, there was a report that came back that said we had over 2 million touches. And I'm not entirely sure how it touches identified, but I just got stuck on the 2 million part.
00:05:09:24 - 00:05:28:09
Unknown
And so I'm just going to yeah, I'm just going to kind of savor that and see if we can double that in 2025, because that means that that means people are feeling impacted by, the great work that people are doing that we have the honor of talking to. So those are some of the things that I have thought about you.
00:05:28:11 - 00:05:50:15
Unknown
Yeah. Well, like you, I'm so grateful for being a part of this podcast. And like you said, meeting just a sliver of the wonderful people doing amazing work, it's a privilege to be able to uplift their their messages and share them with so many people. And also I think, one message I'm going into 2025 with, with is I think there's going to continue to need to be reimaginings in the world.
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Unknown
We're going to have to keep doing our great work, but also imagine new possibilities to keep us excited and keep us nimble, but bring other people into, so I'm going to be looking for inspiration in 2025. Yeah. That's awesome. So let's get in. Let's hop over to part one of the podcast I'm really excited for for this.
00:06:10:23 - 00:06:29:19
Unknown
Ronda, I hope you have a great break. Get some rest and I will see you in the New Year. Same to you, Tommie I really cherish this partnership and this collaboration and shout out to the rest of the production team, people. Alyssa, Vanessa, and even the folks on the editorial team who have to do all the things.
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Unknown
I'm really grateful to them. So I hope everybody rest and I'll see you all next year. All right. Onward. Let's go.
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Unknown
All right. Well, welcome everyone to our first segment, Our People segment, where we are focusing on the folks who've made a difference in ensuring quality outdoor access and experiences are available to everyone. And today, the person we're excited to talk about is Doctor Laurena Zeller. Laurena is the former principal at Add B. Anderson School in Philadelphia, and she's now the executive director of special education for the Office of Special Education and Diverse Learners.
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Unknown
Welcome to the podcast Laurena. Thank you. So glad to be here, Ronda. And I'm glad not part of the people segment. People are, people make the work happen. So I'm just honored to be here and be, talking about the people and be one of the people here today. Yeah. Awesome. It's an honor. We're really glad to have you.
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Unknown
And so we did invite you to this episode to talk about the community school yard at Add B Anderson School. And this was a project that you brought to fruition in 2022, and that was after years of hard work. And so in our brief time, I'm going to ask you to share some of the project details and the wonderful elements that have brought the Anderson community to life by way of the school.
00:07:57:00 - 00:08:33:17
Unknown
And when we had our, pre-production meeting, it was really clear to me that you are a compelling storyteller and a human with a really big heart. And so you are welcome to sprinkle some of that loving magic with any anecdotes as we go along in this conversation. But I, I do want to first start by having you tell us a little bit about the Anderson community, the neighborhood, what the schoolyard used to be like and why you felt that this school yard was essential for the school, for the children and for the community itself.
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Unknown
Thank you. So, Add B Anderson School, is, neighborhood school. It's k through eight in a section of Philadelphia that, depending on who you ask, can I try to honor both sides? It's in Southwest Philadelphia or West Philadelphia, depending on who you ask. And so the community is in the Cobbs Creek section, part of West Philadelphia or Southwest, which is surrounded by trees and surrounded by, creeks and what whatnot.
00:09:03:19 - 00:09:29:03
Unknown
Has lots of historical and political connections in this neighborhood as well, and lots of generations that have been a part of, story history. Cobbs Creek is also like where the move bombing happened and hasn't had generations. So there's also like a history of trauma and distrust, within that community. I became the principal in 2015, and Add B Anderson School, one of my biggest memories.
00:09:29:03 - 00:09:49:07
Unknown
I remember the first day of school and I, on my first year, and I walked out into the school yard and I saw about 550 kids and a bunch of families who did not know me and thought I was playing dress up. They looked so young. And I remember looking at this school yard with lots of families.
00:09:49:09 - 00:10:11:01
Unknown
Who were turning their students and their children, their most prized possessions over to me on the first day. And they did not know who I was. I got hired quickly, so there was really no time to do, like a meet and greet meet the principal, you know, chatting to, whatever you may call it. But I saw an opportunity of community, and I saw an opportunity to build trust.
00:10:11:03 - 00:10:27:01
Unknown
And I saw an opportunity to now put myself in this community who, you know, I had a decision to make whether they were going to open me up with open arms or they were going to be resistant. And so I had some choices. But I saw that when I walked out from the what did it look like?
00:10:27:03 - 00:10:47:14
Unknown
What did the school year? What did you see when you saw those children? What was that? Was it I had a spot and chain link I saw what was it? I saw concrete, I saw broken concrete. I saw concrete where weeds were growing in between the concrete fences, like gated fences. Just like brick brown, dark. This is an elementary school.
00:10:47:14 - 00:11:15:06
Unknown
So I think about five year olds in their first day in their home. They're coming into what I tried to focus on was the people inside of that. I saw faces, I saw families, and I saw hope and I saw opportunity. That's incredible. And so how did you get started? How I mean, you so you you're out there, you see the need, you see these faces, you see these parents, you see all of this like inefficient, deficient, broken infrastructure.
00:11:15:06 - 00:11:35:19
Unknown
How did you get started? One of my core beliefs was always like, I want to lead a school in which I feel comfortable sending my own biological child. And that was something that always grounded me. And what I knew was true is I knew that there were students that were loving. I knew that the school was being led by teachers who were caring.
00:11:35:19 - 00:11:59:20
Unknown
Right. And so that made me feel comfortable, is that we were doing great work as adults to make sure that the students had the academic, social, emotional programing that they need. But also part of that, you know, wanting a place for where I would send my own, my own child is like a physical space and opportunities that can come within a physical space.
00:11:59:20 - 00:12:18:16
Unknown
And so there were lots of conversations, you know, first year principal, you everything's a priority, but nothing actually gets done anything. You want to change everything, but you have to, like, focus. And so I throughout the year, I heard lots and lots of conversations from community members about how they've always wanted a playground, how there were other opportunities.
00:12:18:16 - 00:12:43:00
Unknown
But things fell through or they couldn't raise enough money. There were just all these false promises around having this come to life. And so I remember talking to one of my staff members who walked in, South Philadelphia and came across a project that TPL was doing in another school community, and he handed me a business card after his visit.
00:12:43:00 - 00:13:05:10
Unknown
And I was like, you should connect with them. Like, maybe this can be it for Anderson. And I was like, okay, eager Beaver, me. I remember sending an email on a Saturday and, saying that email to say we're interested. We want to partner. What could that look like? Of course, there was processes and all that other things, but that's kind of how it started and started from people knowing.
00:13:05:12 - 00:13:28:07
Unknown
And this was something that was important to me, that I wanted to cultivate with the community and also be able to deliver for the community because it was grounded in, like my core belief, my vision statement. My first year of Anderson was that we would be an oasis, right. And so that was part of, this oasis that I believe that we could create both in feeling and in infrastructure.
00:13:28:09 - 00:13:49:03
Unknown
And then I got an email saying we were interested in learning more about Add B Anderson. And I remember that walk through at the school, and I remember sitting in the conference room and asking questions, and I remember a question was asked about, you know, would this school be locked up on the weekends from the community? And I remember saying, no.
00:13:49:05 - 00:14:10:21
Unknown
And if that's like a metric, then maybe we're not the school for you. And I remember one of my leadership team members saying, why did you say that? Like, we lost our opportunity and I was like, I'm going to be honest. It's beyond this is not just a school yard for school hours. This is for the community. And the community may be students at Add B Anderson.
00:14:10:23 - 00:14:24:19
Unknown
They may not be people that attended Anderson, but they live in the community or they're visiting through and they like, oh, that's a beautiful track. Let me just go sit there. And so, yeah, I remember that.
00:14:24:21 - 00:14:44:02
Unknown
And that feels very well aligned with your convictions and your values and your vision for an oasis is you. You can't do this without community. So that feel it makes sense that it worked out. Even though it does take time. It makes sense that, you know, we've maintained this connection and this relationship with you and with the school.
00:14:44:04 - 00:15:06:22
Unknown
And so we know that, many generations of residents have gone to, Add B Anderson, and now they have this community school yard that serves multiple functions for the residents as well as the students, which is amazing. And that's the purpose, right? I mean, we do we have this vision of everybody in the United States being within a ten minute walk of a community park, of a park of some sort.
00:15:06:24 - 00:15:33:08
Unknown
And these community schoolyards serve that purpose. So that's right. Don't lock it up on the weekends. That's right. Keep it available to everybody. And you mentioned to me when we were having our, conversation a little while ago, your own personal story, and you actually touched on it at the, at the beginning of this conversation around how you wanted to envision the experience of your for your own children or your own child.
00:15:33:10 - 00:16:02:13
Unknown
Ronda, you're that's supposed to make me cry. You know, in this dreaming, in this, vision setting and what I was always hoping for with this community school yard space was a space that, you know, if I was working after hours or working on the weekend, my son could. Or my daughter could go outside and play. And I knew that they would be surrounded by love because the Anderson surrounding communities is love, right?
00:16:02:15 - 00:16:23:12
Unknown
Grandma, moms, aunties, the poppy store people who have been a part of this community and have ownership. Right? If something doesn't look like it doesn't look right, they report it. And I felt like I didn't just want to be the principal of the school, like I want to be in the community. This is my community too. And this is why I'm taking my role as a principal seriously.
00:16:23:14 - 00:16:48:19
Unknown
And so I was envisioning like my son or my daughter playing out in the school yard or learning how to ride their bike, their, and just being a safe space where they were just surrounded by love. And, you know, I had the opportunity to, when we did the ribbon cutting in August of 2022, I was pregnant and my grandmother was there, and my dad was there.
00:16:48:21 - 00:17:17:24
Unknown
And I have a picture with my grandmother and the superintendent. I have a picture of my grandmother and the, state representative who lives in Cobbs Creek with her. Her mother and I have that picture of that critical moment and the community, which I felt a part of, saw my family embedded in this for me. Right. Like, this is not just something I've done from my professional resumé, but I want my family to be here.
00:17:17:24 - 00:17:47:11
Unknown
I want them to celebrate this as well. So that was in August of 2022, and I had my child, my son, and came back from my maternity leave. And my mom. I wanted her to come and bring the baby to the school in the first place. I took my son Lucas was the school yard, and I remember just sitting on the swing and crying because this was the moment when he, this is the moment for me.
00:17:47:13 - 00:18:09:02
Unknown
I had the moment with the community. I had the moment for the students. But this is the moment for me that I felt proud and I felt connected and aligned. And I know that, like my son, in a few years when he's older will be able to like, oh, mommy was a part of this legacy that now I am a part of for my son with students who also create this.
00:18:09:02 - 00:18:33:18
Unknown
Like it's just it's powerful. It's so powerful, it's so beautiful. And I think there probably many people who are listening to this that are also getting a little teary eyed because that is that richness, that intergenerational presence, that intergenerational connection is something that I think, frankly, we're losing in some of our communities, in some of our societies, for various reasons.
00:18:33:18 - 00:18:58:22
Unknown
And so to know that that was alive and lived into is, it's very beautiful. So thank you so much for sharing. I think other people are smiling in their hearts too, but you started to kind of prompt me towards another question, which is maybe your son will be going to to Anderson and maybe he won't. But imagine now the participatory design process.
00:18:58:22 - 00:19:25:15
Unknown
And that's the one that we had for the community school yard. And I know that it's meaningful for them to participate. You were talking about community members and residents feeling ownership, students feeling ownership. And, as we think about this project going beyond the borders of the school and reaching out into the neighborhood, can you share a little bit about what the students experience through that participatory design process?
00:19:25:17 - 00:19:57:01
Unknown
Yeah, I think often when we think about, serving underserved, underrepresented, underrepresented, minority, whatever you want to call communities, we often think about what we're doing for them. Or what we're bringing to them without their voice being included. And so, you know, we can't say this is good for the community or that every community needs to have this without saying, do you want this or no?
00:19:57:06 - 00:20:25:17
Unknown
And if you do, what is it look like? We allowed students, that were in that design class to be the leaders, right? The third graders, third graders to go through, a process. Right? Which the process included doing surveys of their classmates, the entire school, of the entire building staff, family, students and a larger community to figure out, like, what does the community want?
00:20:25:17 - 00:20:54:03
Unknown
What do they not want? Students who went out and observed, at different recess periods, at different gym periods to see like, okay, where are the students doing TikTok videos? Where are they playing football? Where are they sitting and reading? Like, what does that look like within our space? You know, they took all that information. They did a couple of interviews with folks and really said, like, based off of my learning experience, they saw other schools based off of my learning.
00:20:54:05 - 00:21:18:22
Unknown
This is what I feel like we can do to represent the voices of the larger community. And then they presented them to the school, and then the school had to vote, like I remember. And once again, this was for my family. My grandmother came. My cousin came that day. When they did their presentation, I invited some of my friends to come like, this was this is our space, right?
00:21:18:22 - 00:21:44:20
Unknown
And so, I think about how powerful that is, not just because it built some soft skills right around public speaking and reflecting and working in teams. But I think about the power of exposure. And I think, you know, we often say like, representation matters and you can't dream it. You can achieve it like we say all these things.
00:21:44:20 - 00:22:19:02
Unknown
But, you know, I, I looked at my students and I saw future architects. Yeah. And I looked at my students and I saw future project managers. Yeah. Because of some of the skills that they were able to cultivate. And so those third graders were eighth graders when the project was completed. So how powerful it is for their final year and their elementary experience to say it as well.
00:22:19:04 - 00:22:34:15
Unknown
And to feel like they have not just completed their elementary middle school experience, but they have finalized their time through give me a gift to.
00:22:34:17 - 00:23:07:22
Unknown
Takeaways from this project. That you could use to provide some recommendations for them. Any lessons that you'd like to share. Yeah I think make your petitions known. And make it known to your community because you will find allyship and community and someone who maybe also had that silent position joined forces with you to make something happen.
00:23:07:24 - 00:23:38:04
Unknown
It doesn't just have to be a dream. And then finally, I guess just a reminder that children are so powerful and so resilient, and when given opportunities to shine and trusted to shine, they will. Yeah, I make that. There's a there's a saying somewhere it might be a religious text or something about it, and a child shall lead them something along those lines.
00:23:38:04 - 00:23:57:00
Unknown
And I think they're always a reminder to tap in to our own inner child. Thank you so much, Laurena. It's been a pleasure to talk to you. I know that everybody's going to be so thrilled to just hear what you have to share, and I hope that you have an incredibly beautiful holiday season. Thank you so much, Ronda.
00:23:57:00 - 00:24:11:15
Unknown
And, you know, thanks again to the Trust for Public Plan. And I want to personally shout out, Owen Franklin, called me through this journey and banded with me together.
00:24:11:17 - 00:24:34:15
Unknown
Joining us for our second segment, this is the segment on nature. And so I'm delighted to be joined by TPL Minnesota Land Protection Director Bob McGilvray. Welcome to people nature big ideas, Bob. Good afternoon Ronda. Super glad you're here. You are joining us from the Minnesota North Woods office, and we've asked you to come here today to talk about the Keystone Woods.
00:24:34:17 - 00:25:02:02
Unknown
And, for those folks who aren't familiar with the Keystone Woods, it's an extraordinary project. It happens to be one of the largest swaths of undeveloped natural areas in the Twin City metro area of Minnesota. And so, Bob, for folks who aren't familiar, can you start by painting us a picture? Give us a sense of what Keystone, what looks like, what it feels like, what makes it so special, especially given how large it is.
00:25:02:04 - 00:25:30:15
Unknown
Yeah. First of all, if you can just imagine grasslands of rolling hills, as far as you can see, it's protected. It's part of this. And there's also woodland, several blocks of them, several entire lakes. So it's really a large piece. It really feels like you're out in the wilderness, but you're only half an hour from downtown Saint Paul, and there's a variety of wildlife that call this home.
00:25:30:19 - 00:25:59:20
Unknown
There's a lot of deer and turkeys. I regularly see swans, bald eagles, harriers. I heard some people talking the other day that they saw a large group of short eared owls, which they hadn't seen before. So it's, it's also a great place for birdwatching. But people hike there, people can hunt there, they can fish there. You know, there's a variety of things to do at this place that's pretty exciting.
00:25:59:20 - 00:26:23:21
Unknown
When I was in North Woods, I saw some grouse and some woodcock. Can we say that those are there to. Well, there certainly aren't very many grouse. There are some pheasants. But grouse tend to be more in our northern part of the state. Okay. So notch may woodcock, will come through when they're migrating. But not a lot of resident woodcock.
00:26:23:23 - 00:26:48:09
Unknown
Okay. The species that are hunted, most are deer and turkey, I would say with some pheasant hunting as well. So thinking about the history, can you tell me and the audience a little bit more about how Keystone Woods even came about? Sure. The land was owned by the Kelly Land and Cattle Company, and that family had on the land for multiple generations.
00:26:48:11 - 00:27:19:00
Unknown
And going back, over 30 years, this land has been a priority for, people in the conservation community just because of its, great habitat and its location and the fact that it was such a big block of undeveloped land, it was, a portion of it was in the master plan, for, a park that's called Big Marine Park Reserve and actually part of the land that was owned by the Kelly family, will become part of that park.
00:27:19:00 - 00:27:41:04
Unknown
The piece that we purchased, is now a wildlife managed area. I began talking to the family, over a decade ago, and we had quite a number of conversations over the years. And finally a couple of years ago, the, stars aligned, if you will, and they were ready to sell. And we were able to agree on terms.
00:27:41:06 - 00:28:05:08
Unknown
And then, we pursued funding for this and were able to acquire it a little over a year ago and then recently transfer it to the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. That's really great. And so is it. Is it because of the size of this land and the fact that it was undeveloped and the fact that it was so close to, the Twin Cities, is that the reason why it was a priority for TPL?
00:28:05:08 - 00:28:30:19
Unknown
I mean, when we think about where we put a lot of our energies and attention, this place is twice the size of of New York City's Central Park. So that's pretty significant. It was a priority for a number of reasons. First of all, that the natural resources there. This, as I mentioned, has a, diverse, variety of habitats provides, a home for multiple, species of wildlife.
00:28:30:21 - 00:29:09:19
Unknown
It has high biodiversity significance. It creates a corridor from big marine Park Reserve out to the Saint Croix River, which is, National Wild and Scenic River. It protects water quality because, all of the water drains, through this land going to the Saint Croix. So the natural resources there were certainly a priority. But what really made it sing for TPL was the fact that it is so close to the Twin Cities that so many people would be able to enjoy it, people who were new to wildlife management areas could easily access this.
00:29:09:21 - 00:29:39:20
Unknown
This as well. Most of the ways, you know are several hours away and may be hard to get to for people, who, you know, aren't used to going to them or have, limited transportation opportunities, we view this as a real way to introduce more people to wildlife management areas and connect more people to nature, which is one of the main things that we're trying to do is to be able to connect everybody to the outdoors 100%, and that is our mission.
00:29:39:22 - 00:30:14:10
Unknown
And so that's the wildlife management area. These are public spaces. Anyone can go there. What's the difference between a WMR and any other public space? WMAs are managed by the Minnesota DNR primarily for habitat and public recreation, primarily consisting of hunting, fishing, hiking, wildlife observation. So these areas don't have ballparks. They don't have pavilions and picnic tables generally, that type of thing.
00:30:14:10 - 00:30:40:06
Unknown
They're they're more natural and designed for just nature observation and enjoyment. It's awesome. And so none of these things come for free. And so we'd love to talk a little bit about how the project was funded. My understanding there was a lot of community support, but I don't put my money behind everything that I'm in favor of. So can you tell us how this project came to be funding wise?
00:30:40:08 - 00:31:08:04
Unknown
Sure. The funding for this project came from the Outdoor Heritage Fund, which is a fund that we have in Minnesota that is dedicated sales tax funding. It's one of the four so-called legacy funds that were created by the by a 2008 voter referendum. And that's something that, TPL helped helped lead. So we're blessed in Minnesota to have this large funding source to, to do things like this.
00:31:08:07 - 00:31:30:02
Unknown
But, TPL had to splice together six appropriations, six different, funding, tranches to be able to, to make this happen. We also intend to continue to work on this project, although it's in very good shape. There are some things that can be done to improve the habitat. We will restore some of the Grant land grasslands to, native prairie.
00:31:30:06 - 00:31:54:14
Unknown
There are some invasive species in some of the woodlands, like buckthorn, that we're in the process of moving. So we envision that we will continue to work on this for the next five years or more, and will also receive funding from the Outdoor Heritage Fund to to be able to do that work. That's awesome. Do you have any big takeaways about this whole effort and then how we can think about the future?
00:31:54:14 - 00:32:20:08
Unknown
Maybe there's some lessons learned. That you didn't anticipate. Maybe there's some key things that absolutely have to happen. Well, I guess I would say, you know, don't be afraid to to dream big and to, keep pursuing things even if you don't succeed at first, because this took a long time. It was a big effort. And at times I didn't think it was going to happen, but ultimately, we were able to pull it all together.
00:32:20:08 - 00:32:44:22
Unknown
And, it's something that when I go out there now, it just really makes me feel good. I love it, I love it. There's been, there's been a long conversation, that's been emerging around taking time, the importance of time. And none of these things happen overnight, no matter how hard we wish for them. So I appreciate that you all had the diligence to keep pursuing.
00:32:44:22 - 00:33:10:15
Unknown
Nevertheless, you persisted. So we got to start wrapping up. And before we go, I do want to ask you a little bit about you. Tell me. You tell the audience your last really memorable experience in the outdoors. And this can be something super, super epic like Mount Everest, or it can be something as soothing as watching the leaves fall.
00:33:10:17 - 00:33:34:12
Unknown
Which I think happened earlier in Minnesota than any other place in the country. Now we're about to enter a deep freeze. First one of the year. Man, when was the last time you were really moved by nature? What was something that was so memorable that actually, as I mentioned, I was out at Keystone last week and just everything that I saw there was really amazing.
00:33:34:14 - 00:33:58:08
Unknown
I saw swans, I saw geese, I saw, harriers flying around, I saw bald eagles, I saw, deer tracks all over the place. And I saw all these people being able to enjoy all of that. And it really moved me to be able to see that all, all come together and so many other people being able to enjoy it as well.
00:33:58:10 - 00:34:19:16
Unknown
And it probably made you really proud to be a member of the TPL family. It certainly did. You love it. Well, thanks for joining me, Bob. It was really nice to talk to you. I'm happy to continue to learn through you, with you by your side. Looking forward to learning more about Keystone Woods and how it progresses over time.
00:34:19:16 - 00:34:34:18
Unknown
It sounds like it's in really good shape. I want to wish you the best of luck as you're moving forward with all this good work, and I hope that you really enjoy the holidays. Happy holidays to you as well!
00:34:34:20 - 00:34:58:03
Unknown
Welcome everyone to the third and final segment of this podcast episode, where we're going to talk about a big idea. And as a quick recap, we kicked off this particular people Nature Big Ideas episode with the doctor, Laurena Zeller from Philadelphia, and her initiative helped transform our schoolyard into a vital refuge for our community and the people, the residents of that area.
00:34:58:04 - 00:35:20:20
Unknown
And then then, we had a piece on nature, and that's where we met Bob McGilvery from TPL, Minnesota Northwoods team, and he told us about the Keystone Woods, which is a wildlife management area that is twice the size of Central Park. And it's located just outside the Twin Cities. And now in act three, our big idea, we're going to shed light on the sand.
00:35:20:20 - 00:35:48:19
Unknown
Geronimo Commons. It's a story of how a golf course in a wildfire prone California area was rewilded to become a resource for public good. And so joining us today to tell us all about it, we have Marin County Fire Chief Jason Weber. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. So before we dive into the project to rewilded a former golf course into what it is today, I want to start by talking about an image that really sticks with me.
00:35:48:21 - 00:36:16:14
Unknown
When I first read about this project, I noticed that your fire station had taken over an old golf course clubhouse, and to me, it seems like a remarkable metaphor for how our world has changed from a clubhouse geared towards privilege and leisure and relaxation to now a firehouse that's focused on preventing some of the emerging devastating wildfires in California.
00:36:16:14 - 00:36:41:19
Unknown
And I don't think we're going to see those going anywhere. Sadly. Do you see that metaphor? Do you see this kind of interesting juxtaposition of what was in the space of leadership and or, excuse me, in the space of leisure that is now a place of response and repair? Yeah. I mean, I think to your point, it's, you know, the West is in crisis related to devastating wildfires.
00:36:41:19 - 00:37:08:20
Unknown
And it's not just California. It's really all of the Mediterranean climate and even beyond. And this, you know, does refocus us in a lot of ways, priorities, rising wildfire protection, you know, over other things that maybe we enjoyed for leisure and now becomes paramount in, in our survival. Yeah. I've been thinking about the Titanic a lot lately, but that's for another conversation.
00:37:08:22 - 00:37:30:14
Unknown
It's been coming up a lot. So one of the things that I'm asking each of our guests, for this particular episode is to paint us a picture of the project, and particularly in the context of transformation. Sure. Absolutely. So this is 157 acre property, in a really, pristine and wonderful watershed called the San Geronimo Valley.
00:37:30:16 - 00:38:02:09
Unknown
It's immediately adjacent to three other, not nature preserves. So really provided connectivity to some pretty amazing outdoor spaces. All that serve a purpose for passive recreation, natural resource management. You know, the the property itself is really three principal parcels. Two meadow we're referring to as the meadow parcels. One of those adjacent to and runs through, the Lagunitas Creek watershed, which is, host to endangered coho salmon.
00:38:02:14 - 00:38:32:08
Unknown
And Trout Unlimited is doing an extensive restoration project, to bring that that watershed, back to a more natural state. The other, parcel is adjacent to Roy's Redwoods and old redwood growth grove, with old growth redwood. Try to say that twice and again, another just super critical, watershed area that feeds the Lagunitas Creek. And then the third parcel is where the clubhouse was, the highly disturbed big parking lot.
00:38:32:10 - 00:38:52:11
Unknown
That's going to be the future home of the Marin County Fire Department headquarters. We're currently using the clubhouse to house our fire crews. As we talked about, our programs are growing, bursting at the seams. So it really is a win win win. Both from a public safety perspective, but also, the ability to to re rewild.
00:38:52:11 - 00:39:19:09
Unknown
And what we mean by rewilding is, you know, like most golf courses, it was irrigated non-native grasses. The intent is, through restoration projects over time, bring that back to a more natural state with, with native grasses, native vegetation. Returning things to a more native state is is typically, in this Mediterranean climate in California, beneficial from a fire protection standpoint as well?
00:39:19:11 - 00:39:44:00
Unknown
Because a lot of the issues we have from, from a fire risk are associated with native, non-native plant species that are highly prophetic, like eucalyptus and other items. And, you know, as as that golf course has changed into a more natural landscape, you know, it's something something different. It's it's a different level of beauty. But not everybody shares the same opinion of what, what beautiful looks like.
00:39:44:00 - 00:40:12:14
Unknown
And I think that's as we get further into this discussion that'll play out. Yeah, it is in the eye of the beholder isn't it. And it's it's kind of interesting how we need to kind of transform the, kind of values or the ideals that we hold in our mind and allow ourselves to kind of morph our thinking and kind of release a little bit, you know, of what might be traditional or what might actually be utopian in some instances.
00:40:12:16 - 00:40:42:10
Unknown
And so when you are talking about the landscape and talking about the golf course, traditionally very well irrigated, it's lush and it's green and the low level of grass and the constant watering, all of those things would presume that it's fire resistant. But now that that's changed, we'd love to hear you talk about the challenges of when it came down to making the decision to rewild this space, particularly in the name of fire mitigation.
00:40:42:12 - 00:41:13:24
Unknown
Yeah. So, I mean, no one can argue that irrigated green grass is certainly, less flammable than natural vegetation that dries out. But I think what's important to realize in California, especially is, you know, we removed natural fire from the landscape. And from an ecological perspective, fire belongs on the landscape. It's been here a lot longer than any of us, and it did a very natural job of fire fuel reduction and really creating healthier forests.
00:41:14:01 - 00:41:44:17
Unknown
In the early 1900s, there was an 11, 11:00 rule and, came out of kind of the Smokey the Bear, and everything and meant full sized fire suppression. And essentially, if a fire started a Tuesday afternoon, by Wednesday morning at 11 a.m., it was it was supposed to be fully suppressed. And, you know that with Smokey the Bear theme and the addition of, you know, fire agencies, we removed fire from the landscape and we're paying for that now almost 100 years later.
00:41:44:19 - 00:42:06:03
Unknown
So when we talk about the transition of this golf course, in particular back to a more natural state, you know, from a from a management perspective, we're going to have to use things like, low intensity fire. And other other, management tools in order to bring it to a healthy state. And I think we talked a little bit about, you know, how do you do this?
00:42:06:03 - 00:42:26:23
Unknown
Well, and together and, you know, typically fire professionals are not ecologists and biologists. And we need to partner and understand each other to have positive results. And I think we have some examples of that, you know, and a lot of it has to do with with educating the public, too, on what that looks like and, how it's beneficial.
00:42:27:00 - 00:42:53:16
Unknown
And along this journey, you've had some new learnings that you've had to take on, and that comes by way of collaboration. But before we get into that, because I want to I want to hear about something that's very inspiring to me personally. As somebody who works in a very complex, highly matrixed organization with, a whole lot of areas of expertise that cross over, you touched a little bit on working with TPL and how the land was acquired.
00:42:53:18 - 00:43:26:13
Unknown
Can you share a little bit about that story? How did that even come into being? And I think it's I think it's pretty unique. Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, anybody knows the real estate market in California can be a challenging one. And if you understand government, we don't move at lightning speed. So the partnership with TPL allowed the acquisition of the property and then allow permanent and public access, not only for passive recreation, but the property itself is is in three different parcels, if you will.
00:43:26:18 - 00:43:54:19
Unknown
What we're referring to is the meadow parcels have considerable, deed restrictions on them for really environmental purposes. And then the clubhouse parcel, which is where we're going to put the new fire headquarters and currently using the clubhouse, building. And so, you know, kind of provided a lot of different benefit, you know, both from a public safety perspective and service to the community, but also, from an environmental perspective and public access.
00:43:54:21 - 00:44:19:12
Unknown
So it really was, pretty, pretty big piece of legacy work for those involved. And I think, you know, we'll ultimately serve both the county and the residents of that area really well. So you're talking about all of the different community groups and the coalitions trying to achieve their goals. And that's awesome. And that's pretty ideal. That's what we ultimately want everywhere.
00:44:19:14 - 00:44:56:14
Unknown
And people need to find ways to collaborate and get their needs met in the communities. But it can also be super challenging when we're trying to achieve those outcomes. So what has been your experience when you're managing so many stakeholders in order to achieve such a great outcome? Some of the takeaways, and I guess this is kind of a lead in question, because when we spoke before, you said something that was really important to me, and that is about the time and the importance of this personal dispositions and kind of our, our personal agendas that we might have when we walk into a space.
00:44:56:14 - 00:45:25:06
Unknown
Can you tell a little bit about that process? Yeah, I think I referenced egos. And, you know, I think everyone to a certain extent carries some ego with them. But the ability to set that aside and listen to people, and I think in a country that is so divided, you know, these fundamental skills of being able to stop, understand a different perspective, learn from someone, even if you don't agree with them, really allows and fosters for the best outcomes.
00:45:25:08 - 00:45:48:02
Unknown
And you know, the fire service has a lot of big egos. And, you know, our position is really public protection. And it's life, property and the environment in that order. You know, sometimes I think we get so hung up on not budging from our position that we're not listening to different perspectives. And, you know, I'll give you an example is our parks and open space department.
00:45:48:02 - 00:46:15:07
Unknown
When I first took the fire chief, job, the Board of supervisors who appointed me said, we need you to work on the relationship with parks and open space. It's fractured, and, it needs to be more collaborative. And that I was tasked with that and really was trying to understand what's happening. Well, what was happening was we, as a fire service, were going out and saying, we need to cut all of this back or we need to, you know, remove all of this vegetation.
00:46:15:09 - 00:46:43:06
Unknown
And we weren't listening to our partners that, you know, were extremely knowledgeable in natural resource management, ecological preservation. And through a series of tense meetings, at times, we really came to understand each other's perspectives better and started to look at the landscape as, you know, an opportunity for both of us. And how can we achieve wildland fire protection?
00:46:43:08 - 00:47:05:24
Unknown
At the same time, you know, using ecologically sound practices. And what we found was and I would say, almost without exception, is that when you start to remove non-native and create a more natural environment, which was was certainly our, our parks and open space desire, you create a more resilient and safer landscape from a fire protection point.
00:47:06:01 - 00:47:41:05
Unknown
And instead of fighting with each other and us as fire professionals coming to the table and telling our colleagues who are biologists, ecologists, you know, experts in natural resource management, let's tell them this is an area of concern for us. Let's work on a prescription to address the concern. Fast forward to today. We now have dedicated park staff, ecologists that are out working with our fire crews, teaching them in the field best practices, educating them on plant species, even, you know, animal species that are in sensitive habitats.
00:47:41:07 - 00:48:02:04
Unknown
The end result is we're getting more and better work done. Then we were butting heads with each other over, you know, and when it boils down to it, it's egos, you know, and setting those aside and and I think it's maturity. I probably at some point in my career admittedly probably didn't come to the table with an open mind.
00:48:02:06 - 00:48:31:20
Unknown
And I think as you get a little grayer, our hair, like I have, and you mature, you realize that, you know, you can get more done working together. And that doesn't mean we always agree. Means we respect and understand each other. And I think when you look at the acquisition of this golf course, the transition to a natural landscape, the use of the clubhouse parcel for, a fire headquarters, not everyone was in agreement.
00:48:31:20 - 00:49:05:05
Unknown
And, you know, there was litigation, there was a ballot measure, there were challenges. But I think at the end of the day, the vast majority of of the community, certainly the local community, supports this transition and recognizes the public benefit. That it offers today, but into the future. You know, I think it's, again, going back, closing out, let those egos go and start to work together and we can learn, I just want to rewind and play it again and again and again.
00:49:05:05 - 00:49:32:02
Unknown
I think that is like the theme for the Nation 2025 moving forward, every organization, family, friendships, that is. I mean, somebody said that the ego is where your soul goes to die. And, that really resonates with me. So I think that that's kind of part of my big idea and my mantra myself in 2025. So thank you for that.
00:49:32:02 - 00:49:57:19
Unknown
That's that's definitely a true measure of success. And, and definitely an approach. So we need to start wrapping up because I know this was intended to be a brief discussion, but there's so much to say. So I want to turn it back to you on a personal level. And the I want to ask you about the last time you had a memorable experience in the outdoors of any sort.
00:49:57:21 - 00:50:17:14
Unknown
Yeah. I'm quite fortunate, that we live in a beautiful place and, you know, probably unlike a lot of the country, our winters are pretty mild, so we're able to get out. But I think, you know, often I take for granted how lucky I am. And it's the little moments when, you know, I have four young kids or younger kids.
00:50:17:16 - 00:50:59:04
Unknown
And when you're out there away from things commercialized, you know, entertainment, you really do get to connect, with your kids, the environment, your family. And, you know, I think those are our memories I still hold near and dear and try to get the kids off of a device or outside and, and I think, you know, that's when we find the most enjoyment and, you know, even taking the kids out to let them ride their bikes on the trails through, the property, at San Geronimo, as an opportunity to, to see, you know, fish that are spawning, you know, in a natural landscape.
00:50:59:06 - 00:51:31:19
Unknown
And, and how truly beautiful that is. And, you know, we had the opportunity to walk through the property with our local tribe. And, you know, it's it's fascinating to hear the history, you know, certainly before development and, and all of us being here, you know, how important this landscape was to the native people and then really trying to reflect, to make sure we carry on that tradition, respectful of of that past and that history and, and those that came before us.
00:51:31:19 - 00:51:56:14
Unknown
So those are some of my fondest memories. And I think that, you know, the great outdoors, we need to make sure we keep this going and for generations to come, get to experience those same, same things. Amen. Hallelujah. 100%. I just want to thank you so much. Fire Chief Jason Weber of Marin County. It's been an honor to talk to you.
00:51:56:14 - 00:52:21:02
Unknown
I have a feeling I'm going to circle back and have a longer conversation with you. I'm really eager to come out and have the San Geronimo experience. But before we go, I want to remind folks that this is the holiday season and you all can be part of this critical work. And so if you're able to make a gift, you can move one step closer to ensuring equitable outdoor access for all people.
00:52:21:04 - 00:52:49:03
Unknown
And if you're able to contribute before the year ends on December 31st, your gifts will be matched up to $250,000. People. Nature Big Ideas is produced by the trust for Public Land in partnership with Pretty Good Productions. Our executive producer is Thomas Clayton Miller, our producer is Vanessa Martin, and our associate producer is Alyssa Morley. Our theme song was produced by Tall Black Guy productions.
00:52:49:03 - 00:53:32:03
Unknown
And if you liked the show, please leave us a rating on iTunes and maybe mention us to a friend or two. All right, everybody, have a happy holiday season. Be safe. Get outside and love one another. Let your egos rest. Thank you guys.