#001 A Towel Not a Title

In this enlightening discussion, we delve into the profound concept of servant leadership, as exemplified by Jesus washing His disciples' feet. This powerful act, described in John 13:3-5, serves as the foundation for our first core value: 'A towel, not a title.' We explore how this seemingly simple gesture carries deep spiritual significance, challenging us to approach leadership and service with humility and selflessness. The message encourages us to examine our motives in serving others, reminding us that true leadership in God's kingdom is about lifting others up rather than elevating ourselves. As we reflect on this, we're prompted to consider how we can embody this servant-hearted approach in our daily lives, whether in our workplaces, our church, or our communities. This perspective shift invites us to see our roles and responsibilities through the lens of service, potentially transforming how we interact with others and approach our God-given purposes.

Chapters

• 0:00 Understanding the Towel Card
• 10:00 The Heart of Servant Leadership
• 20:00 Balancing Authority and Humility
• 30:00 Overcoming Self-Centeredness in Service

Transcript

Hey guys, welcome back to Lifelink Pod.

I'm your host, Laci, and this season we're talking all things Lifelink culture.

So who we are, what we do, and why we do it.

Whether you're here to be inspired, to learn more, or just come along in the journey, we're so excited you're with us.

So now, on to the pod.

Well, welcome to episode one.

It's the first one.

It's the first one.

We're doing this.

We've thought about this for a while.

Yeah, how's it feel to be here?

I'm here.

No, I'm super excited about the opportunity to connect and just share thoughts.

Yeah, I think this is going to be a fun journey.

Yep.

Okay, so before we dive in and start, speaking of starting, how was your day?

Well, it started early on.

Okay.

At a little point of frustration about 5.15 this morning when I realized in arriving to the gym that all three Stairmasters were full of people.

You only have three Stairmasters at your gym?

Only three, I know, and they were all jammed.

Why are there only three?

I feel like normal gyms have like seven to nine.

Nothing about my life is normal.

So I had to wait for about 20 minutes for one of them to clear out.

So you just sat there and like stared at people?

I just made the most of my time.

I texted people.

Okay.

At 5.15 in the morning?

Sure.

My daughter was one of them.

Yes, I was.

Did you get that picture?

I sure did.

Of random strangers calves.

Thank you for that.

Yeah.

I appreciate it.

Is that how your day normally starts?

Well, right now, because we're training for a rim to rim, so I'm doing every day, Monday through Friday, an escalating number of floors and they're killing me.

Our calves are going to be so like snatched and swole.

Exactly.

But that we're not here to talk about that.

No, we're not here to talk about that.

But sometimes I, you know, you just like to hear how to normal people start their day.

I'm sure people would want to know how does pastor Dave start his day.

And right now it's on the stair master.

The gym.

Yeah.

Several dozens of stairs.

When is your like quiet time?

When do you do that secret place time?

Often it's, it's in the morning.

So like at four 15 in the morning.

Well, it depends on how the morning goes.

I have a certain six-year-old at my house that has a rhythm of her own, so it bounces around.

But at some point in the morning, I grab some time with God and make that connection.

Nice.

Very cool.

Do you drink coffee before you go to the gym?

Not right now.

No, no.

I say that to afterwards.

Right.

It's like a treat.

Well, I just don't want my heart to have so much caffeine as I'm climbing all those stairs.

I do the same thing.

I tried doing like, um, like pre-workout.

I can't do it.

It makes my face tingle and that gives me like so much anxiety.

And then, um, I don't do coffee before I go to the gym.

I've tried doing like an energy thing, but it gives me heartburn.

Weirdly enough.

Wow.

Yeah.

Maybe it's because I'm like old.

Episode one, we're learning all about.

We're learning so much about each other.

Okay.

So episode one of the Lifelink pod.

Yep.

And we figured let's start out with some culture things of Lifelink.

Okay.

So our church has been, I think we're coming up on 19 years.

Is that right?

Yeah.

19 years.

19 years.

Crazy.

It is amazing.

19 years in February.

Yeah.

Well, there tends to be two different start dates in people's minds.

The actual technical start date is February 3rd.

Which is mom's birthday.

Mom's birthday.

It's just the date that the state said you could be a corporation.

Cool.

But the vision came a little earlier than that.

But as far as our technical start, it'll be February 3rd.

Okay.

Our corporate start was really Easter that year.

Yeah.

So...

Okay.

So for as long as I can remember being a part of lifelink, we've had like culture values, family values.

It's, it's very similar to families, you know, this is how we do things in our house kind of thing.

And so at lifelink we have, um, now we call them core values, but when we first started, we called it a towel card.

And so we thought to start out the podcast, let's just dive into some lifelink culture things.

So like what makes lifelink lifelink?

Why do we do things the way that we do?

And because a lot of our church, I feel like doesn't know what these things are.

They feel them at work because you can feel within our team and the way our volunteers work and just the atmosphere of our church that like,

There's a certain family value, culture value, but what those specific things are, a lot of people don't know.

So we thought it'd be fun to like, let's go and talk about what are these core values.

And so I have to laugh as I'm thinking about what you're saying.

It's actually true.

When you walk into a new environment, you feel everything, but you can't point to why you're feeling what you're feeling.

And so we know that now as we're feeling the culture of something.

And if you study, you can actually take it apart and figure out, oh, this value brings this facet, this value brings that experience and whatnot.

So early on in the season of our journey, when we were at the CTA campus, a little elementary school, I think it was, one of the ladies was visiting, came up to mom at the end of the service and said, I'm trying to feel like why things are so happy here.

Because of mom.

That's one reason.

Well, she said, is it because you're from Texas?

Oh, I love it.

That Texan hospitality.

Isn't that fun?

Yeah, that's cool.

But it really comes from something else.

And so that's what we're going to be talking about.

Yeah.

So we're going to talk about our core values, which we used to call the towel card.

So can we talk about like...

When when did we start this?

Like, let's have this particular set of core values.

Did that start at the very beginning?

Was it a little bit in?

No.

In our experience, it really just came from noticing that God had really been doing something in our church family.

And our church did have a pretty engaging experience.

When people would walk in, we'd notice that.

And so we began to take a look and see, where is this coming from?

And begin to look at values that really framed those things and start putting them together.

And so I feel like it was probably three or four years into our journey when we actually framed that this is where this comes from.

Okay.

That's cool.

I didn't know that.

I mean, I was part of the journey, but I wasn't like on the staff at that point.

So I didn't get the memo.

Probably because you were a kid.

Probably because I was like 14, 15.

So, so why, so we have this.

So, so you're saying like you noticed that,

Here are things that seem to be organically happening within our church, probably downstream of y'all's leadership and how you lead and instill, I'm sure, even in the staff at that time.

And then it's turned into, wow, we have these core values, so let's capture that.

Yeah, it's different now.

Typically, the kind of science behind culture has been really established enough that when people are starting organizations or churches, they actually frame what do we want the culture to be like.

Right.

And so let's start establishing the language of that and the roots of that, and then let's just reinforce that until it becomes the culture that we have.

Which is smart.

That's wisdom.

Right.

But 100 years ago when we were starting LifeLink,

We didn't do anything the way it was supposed to be done.

It just really came out of this relational journey with God.

And we learned along the way, oh, this is how that works.

And this is how that works.

And that was culture.

Describing culture was one of those things for us.

Yeah.

So you guys, I mean, I know this, but like you guys weren't necessarily trained in church planting and there wasn't like a, here's how to plant a church.

It was like, God told us to do this.

So we're going to figure it out.

Yeah, pretty much.

The short answer is it really came like that.

We were in a ministry season of transition and actually anticipated that we would be moving from the Phoenix Valley to Dallas when the Lord gave us the word that the assignment that brought us to Phoenix was done, but his long-term assignment for us to be in the Valley was not.

And that included church, planting a church, which was never a part of our goal.

Right, and now...

You know, 19 years later, there are all sorts of organizations that like really partner with pastors and help give them a plan.

But like that wasn't a thing that we knew of.

Some of the ones that are well known now, like ARC and GROW and some of those other big organizations, they were starting then.

But everything was so new that it happened so fast.

We just kind of rolled along with it and learned along the way.

Yeah.

That's so cool.

I love the, like, we're going to say yes.

And then we're going to figure it out later, like how to do it.

So in the process of that, then we have these core values.

So, um, the, the original name for our core values was called the towel card.

Can you explain what that was?

So it was interesting.

We were at a conference at a church, I think in Baton Rouge,

And this was part of our discussion.

So your mom and I and some of the core team that were part of our staff at that point, we're talking about these things because we realized how powerful the culture of our church family was.

And so we were in the discussion of figuring these things out and we happened to be visiting a church in Baton Rouge and they actually had a towel card and we were just like, wow. this is amazing because in one little app one little thing was 10 of their values and we're like how cool to have something this small we can work with our teams to have it kind of at the ready and we can always refer to them and whatnot so that's where we actually first heard the phrase towel card and i instantly loved what was underneath the towel card as far as the the terminology towel yeah

And so the card is just the collection of the points, but the towel represents the heart of serving.

And so it really was just an instant hit for us.

So the first towel card value, which is where the towel card got its name.

Our first towel card value is a towel, not a title.

And so that comes from John 14 verses three through five that says, well, really it's verse four.

So he being Jesus got up from the table, took off his robe, wrapped a towel around his waist and poured water into a basin.

Then he began to wash his disciples feet, drying them with the towel he had around them.

But I love verse three, which kind of gives a little bit more insight into this that says, Jesus knew that the father had given him authority over everything and that he had come from God and would return to God.

So knowing that he got up from the table and washed his disciples feet.

And that's where this comes from.

The towel, not a title and the towel card.

So can you explain a little bit, like, that's what the scripture says.

What does that mean?

Why was that the first value and what we named the whole core values after?

Okay.

So for me, that one snapshot of when you see Jesus actually doing that is a perfect synergy between two other big points of scripture that for me are really insightful with kind of motives.

And for me, motives and heart issues are really central.

So

Matthew 20 is when Jesus was talking to his disciples about how leadership works in the kingdom of God.

And he said, it's common in the culture around you that leaders lord over one another.

Mm-hmm.

And as soon as you see that picture, it's really clear, oh yeah, that's how it works.

The more leadership prowess you have, the more leadership chops you have or influence you have, the more your will can just kind of sway people around you regardless of what they think.

And we tend to have this sense of we elevate ourselves by kind of growing up over people and getting them to do what we want them to do.

And it's usually with our intent in mind or our benefit in mind.

Does that make sense?

And so lording over people is the way that Jesus described how the culture of the world works.

But he said, it's not that way in the kingdom of God.

In the kingdom of God, if you want to lead, you actually have to be the chief servant of all.

And so it's exactly the opposite.

And so at first it's like, I don't know how that works, because how do you actually make that work?

And so that's a really interesting study.

But it's if you look at the scripture you were referencing where Jesus was actually washing the feet of his disciples.

To me, it goes back to that teaching.

And he says, I want you to remember this, because I am who I am, and I'm doing what God sent me to do.

But along the way, I want you to see this.

And he modeled that.

But really, where we see the first glimpse of that is Philippians 2, where Jesus actually left everything that was rightfully his because of his divine personhood, his divine title or his position. but he he willingly left all of that in heaven and took on the form of a slave to execute the will of the father in the redemption of mankind yeah so for me in that in that one kind of spot you see these two big ideas what jesus actually did and then what he taught

Yeah.

So it's so backwards from, I mean, everything I feel like in God's, in the way God works in his kingdom is backwards to what comes naturally to us.

And that's part of that relationship with God is that daily, like working that out every single day.

Um, but it's so backwards, even culturally, I mean, outside of the church, but then I even think within the church too, um, of, I mean, we do have titles.

And I think this is something that, I mean, I've heard you say this so many times is like, we wanna honor the title and yet we're still a person.

So there's that tension.

So example, we here at lifelink we have titles so you're pastor dave we all refer to you as pastor dave when people don't refer to you as pastor dave i get a little like inside but it's not because like titles don't matter but at the same time there's authority that comes with the title so there's this tension between i want to honor the authority but recognize you're a person but still honor you as a person

Yeah, let's take that apart a little bit.

Yeah, let's do that.

Okay.

So when we say a title, a title actually points or identifies a function.

It's like the president of the United States is a person. but he's serving in an office that has a function.

Yeah.

So in that in that role, the president, as the person steps into the office, the office is established in our in our case by Constitution.

So the Constitution frames that this this position will have these powers and authorities for the benefit of all the people that this position serves.

Does that make sense?

And so really what we're talking about in many ways is the approach that a person takes to stepping into their position. if a person steps into a position, for example, as a pastor, we know that that's one of the gifts that Jesus gave the church.

And he gave that so that there's a certain function that is served by his lordship or his directorship or his oversight, his function, that people step into that role and serve the body of Christ.

But it's possible that a person can step into that office that is identified by title and actually have the wrong motive.

So if they serve in the position or the office that's identified by a title for their personal expediency, then they actually violate the spirit of which Jesus wants to use that function for.

So it's like they intercept it and it becomes about them.

Right.

So when we say it's about a towel, not a title, it's really talking about the heart in which you serve, whatever God's called you to function in.

And so we use that phrase towel, not a title, so that we can really help our own minds and hearts remember

I'm doing what God called me to do in this function to serve people on his behalf.

It isn't about me and my personal prestige or my personal expediency.

So that's where that phrase really comes into, the shorthand of that is a powerful reminder of that.

Well, and it's so I feel like there's two approaches to this.

One is that of for me, if I'm given a title, whether it's within the church of pastor or even on our dream team, a team lead or a coach or whatever that is, elder coach.

Any title that we have, worship leader, we have like our producers, all those things.

That is an office that has authority.

So it's a good reminder to look at Jesus of how he stepped into that with the heart to serve.

But then on the flip side of a person who maybe doesn't have the title but is interacting with someone who has the title, of how on that side, like maybe speak to how do we interact with the person with the title?

Because I feel like, especially hearing this, it could be so easy of like, it's not about your title.

Like, why are you like, you're just a person.

So I'm just going to treat you like a normal person.

Right.

There's a tension of like, yes, treat them like a person, but also honor the title because even though it's not about the title, but yet there's something in God's kingdom.

When we honor the title, we reap a reward, a benefit as well.

So maybe speak to that side of it.

So this, it feels and may sound like to somebody, this is getting overly nuance-y.

And what?

You?

Our church?

Overly nuanced?

But it's really not.

And hopefully by the time we kind of land on this topic, we'll have a little clearer picture of what's really happening.

So Jesus said, if you receive a prophet in the name of a prophet, you get the prophet's reward.

Okay, what does that mean?

So the prophet's reward is not his salary or his title or his reputation.

The prophet's reward is, think about the prophet is serving in the office of a prophet.

That is something that God established for the benefit of people that that office would serve.

And so if a person, let's say that I'm approaching you as either Lacey or Pastor Lacey.

If my mind and heart approaches you as Pastor Lacey, what I'm really doing is approaching you as, in the context of the office you serve.

So my heart and my mind are receiving your actual influence in your words from the function that God gave you to serve me in.

Does that make sense?

Yes.

So the prophet's reward is I get the benefit of what God would do through that office directly to my life.

Does that make sense?

But if I don't receive a prophet in the name of a prophet, I just receive them in the name of the person that they are, all I get is them.

Right.

So really, I've learned a long time ago that in my own journey, I've learned how God has positioned me to serve the body of Christ in.

But when I approach other people, I always approach them in their, for lack of a better word, the place they fit the body, regardless of whether, quote, I'm over or beneath or whatever their role is.

I want what God's doing through them to speak to me all the time.

So if I'm talking to, let's say one of our staff members, JT, JT is a great guy.

He's brilliant with technology and whatnot, but he, he actually serves in the, in a function of ministry for our team.

So if I just approach JT, like I know JT to be,

Well, there's parts of his growing up here in the house where he was just a punk kid, but he's not a punk kid.

He is a man serving in a function that's powerful in its effect in the ministry of our church.

So I don't see him as a crazy teenager.

I see him as an adult who's serving in the role of the technological director at our church.

And the, so I, I lean into that idea and now I get the benefit of God working through him.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Or any of our elders or greeters or any, well, I even noticed like with people at our church that are, they simply attend, they don't have a role specifically here, but maybe they are in the medical field.

I, you refer to them as,

On Sunday as Dr. So-and-so, even though they don't have their white coat on or their stethoscope around their neck, but you're honoring that.

So I have noticed that.

And there's just something so beautiful about honor when we extend honor.

And it's like, I think that's another low key, like core value that we have at our church is there's just this honor culture.

And I've actually, I've had friends that don't attend our church and work elsewhere and have commented that they can just feel that there's such an anointing for honor.

And we honor so well, but I think that this, it probably stems from this towel card of Jesus himself left and came and served.

And so then we try to do the same.

What do you do or how would you like advise somebody to honor somebody with a title, like honor their title, but maybe the person first? we don't feel is fully honorable.

So they have the title of maybe it's a boss that we don't feel like, man, they're not easy to honor or respect or, you know, it's so easy to talk about them behind their back, but when they're in the room, I'll show respect.

But like, you can tell, when somebody's been talking about you or you, you know, you can feel that.

What do we do when there's that, when we're engaged or when we encounter that of like, I know I'm supposed to respect you and honor you, but I don't feel like you're a good leader or I don't feel like you're trustworthy, but I also can't say anything against that.

Like, how do you navigate that?

Well, okay, excuse me.

So this is an interesting decision that we as people make moment by moment.

For me, I've learned over the years that if I can live out Colossians 3, 23 and 24, which is that, well, hold on, I'm just trying to blame.

Work willingly?

Whatever you do as unto the Lord, because he's the one that actually brings the benefits of what he's doing to that person.

Right.

So for me, the idea is I recognize that I may be talking to a person who has got some areas to grow in.

Those areas that they need to grow in, they are producing an inconvenience for me, maybe even some frustration for me. but in the moment I'm dealing with them or interacting with them, I'm switching them in my mind to the spot where it's like, no, as under the Lord, which means there, there's a reason he's got them in front of me.

There's a reason I'm interacting with them.

There's something I'm listening for, looking to learn, whatever that make, whatever is, does that make sense?

Yeah, it does.

So in that case, for me, I've learned to, to adopt that as a personal posture and

But when I'm actually then confronted with the personal inconvenience factor, it's a point of humility for me too, because I realized that there's dozens or even hundreds of people downstream of me in my own growth curve that are having to endure spots that I'm probably introducing inconvenience to them.

And so I always walk.

I try to always walk away from those moments thinking, OK, Lord, I hope I was really hearing what you were trying to get me to hear in that experience.

And then thank you for that reminder that there's still areas for me to grow in.

And so I need to be willing to extend to them what I hope people extend to me because we're never really there.

Yeah, but like that's so hard and you're a really good person for thinking that way.

Oh my goodness.

I don't know.

I mean, I wonder how much we actually put thought into our interactions or how quickly it's just like, oh, they make me mad and they don't deserve that spot.

Part of this is because I'm a generation ahead of you.

Yeah, I guarantee you when I was in your when I was your age, I wasn't thinking that way.

OK, that makes me feel better for sure, because and this this is one of the things that I love this interaction with our our team, because whether it's your mom, myself or others, other leaders who are in our generation interacting with leaders in your generation. there is a mutual understanding that we have and respect for each other.

In our case, remembering where we were when we were in your spot and the learning curves that we were going through.

I look back when I was in my 30s on serving on a staff, I'm thinking with eye rolls in my mind, oh my gosh.

I should have been fired so many times.

I should have been fired.

But because there was a leader who was seasoned enough to realize it wasn't about him.

This is my pastor, Pastor Kennedy.

He would just put up with me and all my shenanigans.

I was big and blustery and just holler and just, I would make a mess at staff meetings thinking that can't be done and this, that, and the other.

And I look back on that and think, oh my gosh, that was a handful.

But he had the wisdom to know I'm in process.

Now I know what he's experiencing.

He was actually living out what I was just describing to you.

And so when generations work together the way that we work together, which is an intentional decision, it's easy for every generation to go, that's it, I'm done.

But you never give up.

You can't quit because if you do, you unzip what God's doing with the generational parade of his purpose.

But I guarantee you when I was in my 30s, I wasn't thinking that way.

Well, and I even think of this from not just within a church staff or serving on the team, but in the marketplace.

So I think of maybe somebody who could be in your generation, but their boss is in my generation.

This same kind of thing applies, where it could be easy to be like, God, this kid is my boss, but they have no idea what they're doing.

Yeah.

But yet that heart posture of honor of exactly what you said of, okay, Lord, show me what you're doing.

But then maybe there's a point of like, also God, if there's a spot where I can share wisdom or, you know, but it's all from that place of humility, which we see Jesus model so well.

One of the things that further down in this passage, as Jesus goes to wash his disciples feet, Peter, of course, leave it to Peter.

He was like, absolutely not Jesus.

You're not going to wash.

I should be washing your feet.

Maybe he was the, you know, 30 year old blustery guy that you were talking about.

So why do you think he initially resisted?

And why was it so important for Jesus to model that of like, no, Peter, sit down.

In all likelihood, Peter was responding to the hierarchy of leadership.

So he saw that Jesus was above him and he was beneath his leadership.

But what Jesus was doing was actually taking the form of somebody that would be under Peter to serve him.

So he missed the whole thing of what Jesus was actually doing.

And the big picture that only Jesus had in his understanding of why he was doing all those things.

But one of the things that I'm sure tripped Peter up was he saw that, and he was once again dealing with what Jesus was pointing out in Matthew 20, where he says, this is how leadership works in the culture around you.

But if you actually pay attention to how the kingdom of God works, it works the other way.

If you think about it, when we feel maneuvered by people in position,

You understand what I'm saying by maneuvered?

Yeah.

Or used, like we're a tool for somebody.

We resist that.

Right.

But if we actually see that a leader who's got responsibility to direct what I'm doing for the benefit of the organization I'm in, when we see that they're doing that for my benefit, they're actually serving me.

They're calling me up to higher standards of excellence or output or productivity or whatever it is.

If I see it that way, then I'm like, oh, I really want that voice, even if it's challenging me.

Right.

But if they're just using me, do you see the difference between those two ideas?

That's the spirit of what's behind that.

Well, what do you do if you're in that position where you're like, no, I know I'm being used.

Yeah.

And that's a common experience.

Right.

And to some degree, I think the Lord allows us to stay in those places to help us remember there's a tendency we have to do the very same thing to people that we lead.

So it's just, again, maybe it's the age, the benefit of age, right?

But I just lean into the idea that every time I'm confronted by something that's an inconvenience, I have flashbacks of things either I've done or the Lord helps me see that that's what I'm doing now to others.

And I need to give that person some grace.

That's really good.

And going back to the Colossians 3.23 of I'm not doing this for a person.

Or myself.

Or myself.

This really is for God.

Under the Lord.

Okay.

So how can we balance using influence?

So let's say we have a title.

Well, I guess now in our current culture, everybody's trying to have some sort of platform or title and it's easier now than ever with social media.

You can start your own platform and get influence and whatever.

So

How do we balance using that influence, whatever influence we might have for good, while not letting it define us or even inflate our own prestige or ego?

Okay, that was loaded.

Okay, so... So sharpen up what you're asking.

Okay, so say a person gets a promotion or maybe we'll keep it within the context of Lifelink.

Okay, so they've gone from, okay, let's say I'm in worship.

That's the influence that I have.

So a person in worship goes from being a choir member, a vocalist, and they're now on a microphone. how what would it look like or how can they balance that using that influence that they have a microphone using it for good and making sure their heart stays in check versus and not letting it define us or even inflate like look at this position I'm in now right how how do we make sure that we keep our heart in check and make sure that those motives are for the right thing

Well, for me, one of the primary things that is called on, I think, in that situation would be for a person to remember I'm in the body of Christ.

So he has moved me from one place to the next to serve a slightly different function.

And what he's doing in me is really important, but what he's doing through me is most important.

So anytime I feel like I have the beginnings of look at me, I realize, oh my goodness, my attention's on the wrong spot.

And I'll tell you a dead giveaway for this.

Anytime we're actually nervous about what we're doing, how well we'll do, most of the time that's a dead giveaway to the fact I'm thinking about me, not the people I'm serving.

Wow.

That make sense?

Yeah.

I mean, but isn't there some element of nerves to anything that we do?

Yes.

And it's not wrong.

And I'm not saying it's a hundred percent dead giveaway that you are in a wrong spot.

Right.

I'm just saying, if you actually notice, wow, I'm really nervous about this.

There is a good chance that the nerves is not specifically that you won't serve people.

Well, the nerves typically come from the fact that you feel like you're not going to do well and you'll be thought of poorly.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's really true.

That's a good point.

Okay.

Okay.

So that's a good check-in.

What would it look like for leaders or for normal people, just for us as followers of Jesus, to prioritize serving others over personal recognition in our daily, everyday life?

What could that look like?

Um, it's in all likelihood going to start with a, a constant revisiting of the fact that, um, our creator went out of his way to not just create it and create us in the world we're in, but actually he went out of his way to redeem us.

So he went through the very process.

He went through the process of going out of his way to make sure that what we needed, but couldn't do ourselves, he would do for us.

Hmm.

And so the idea of serving others is going to roll into that.

And as it relates to, well, I actually am going to go three different directions on this question.

So sharpen it up for me again.

Well, I'd say pick a direction and go.

But what would it look like just in our everyday life to just really prioritize?

I'm just going to serve without expecting anything back to me. how, what could that look like for just a normal person?

Okay.

Oh, there's so much I want to say.

Let me just kind of wade into this and see if this doesn't go like a constructive direction or if you feel like I'm going in circles, then just say it.

That's a nice idea, Dad, but this is what I'm really asking.

Okay.

So this is the reminder that we do what we do in the body of Christ in relationship with God.

Mm-hmm.

And so that relationship is where most of this comes from when we actually do life in relationship with God.

So if I start working on that and remember who he is to me, then that's going to frame how I serve others or relate to others around me.

Right.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

It does.

Especially the serving others part.

I think good indicators, at least for me, when I'm out of line in this one is I don't want to people, but it's all about people.

But when I'm, and I'm, you know, there's the like, okay, I'm an introvert.

So have I refueled enough and all of that.

But when I'm in a spot where it's like, time to engage people and serve people.

And if I'm like, I just don't, I cannot people today.

That's when I'm like, I think it hasn't been about the towel.

It's been not necessarily about the title, but I've just been focused too much on me.

And I feel like the other indicator for me when I'm out of alignment is when I start uh, I've been told this is a toxic trait that I have is I always want the credit.

Um, and it's probably because I'm a only child achiever.

I was the teacher's pet.

You know, I wanted, I want the acknowledgement of that external acknowledgement of you're doing a good job.

And so even in myself, um,

When I start, it's so bad, but it's just flesh, right?

When I can see somebody else doing something well and somehow tie it back to my influence, that's when I know I am not in the right here.

This is not about serving.

This has become about me, and I need to check myself.

So example, again, part of my job is I do the worship directing here.

Right.

If somebody else is leading worship and it's a powerful Sunday, and if I hear that thought of like, well, you made the set, like, whoa, hang on.

It's not about that at all.

It's about what's Holy Spirit doing through that person leading in that position.

He gets all the credit.

But how easily those things sneak in in us.

Yeah, it's really interesting that you say that.

Because that's most likely a whisper from darkness in a lane that is a trigger for you to get you started down that way.

But what I hear in you is the maturity of recognizing, oh, wait a second, that's not God.

That's really not even where I'm at in God.

So I'm going to resist that idea and refocus on who I am and what he's called me to do for his glory.

Right.

And even, and I feel like that's a lot of what culture is now is if I get the accolades or the credit or the likes or whatever, then I feel good about me.

Um, but there's a scripture in Matthew six and it's talking a lot about like giving like monetarily.

Um, but it says, watch out.

Don't, well, don't do your good deeds publicly to be admired by others for you will lose the reward from your father in heaven.

When you give to someone in need, don't do as the hypocrites do, blowing trumpets and calling attention.

But when you give, or it says, I tell you the truth, they have received all the reward they will ever get.

But when you give to someone, don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing.

Give your gifts in private and your father who sees everything will reward you.

And I, um, I heard, I think it was like a podcast or sermon or something, but Christine Kane, who, uh, I love, she's great.

And her mentor is Joyce Meyer.

And, um, Joyce Meyer had told her one time, like, Hey, you're getting a lot of attention and you're getting a lot of. accolades and so make sure you're doing something in private because that's all the rewards you're gonna get.

But make sure you're doing some stuff that only God sees because then he'll reward that.

And I love what the scripture talks about too of like, if we do get the compliments,

That's it.

Right.

Those are all the rewards.

So then we keep trying to do and use our influence to leverage more attention instead of it's all about you, Jesus.

And you just... But it's so hard.

Right.

So...

In part because affirmation that is self-aggrandizing or that actually just touches the part of us that makes us feel good about ourselves in the moment.

It's almost like a drug.

It does feel good in the moment, but it takes more of it the next time and more of it the next time and more of it the next time.

And so it becomes a taskmaster to us.

And Jesus basically wants us to know if that's why you're doing that, you're serving a taskmaster that's going to drive you to nothing.

It's going to completely fry you and burn you out.

But if you actually serve the Father.

So it wasn't just saying do things to hide and make sure nobody sees anything.

No, right, yeah.

But it really comes, it's bottom line is the motive.

Mm-hmm.

It's what's the motive I'm doing what I'm doing for.

Is that how you say that?

Doing what I'm doing for?

The motive for which I'm doing what I'm doing.

For which I'm doing, yes.

You don't end in a preposition.

I'm sure there's a lot of doing there.

But anyway, it comes down to that motive again.

So if your motive is to be faithful to the Lord, to accomplish what He is saying or leading you to do for His glory or His reputation is a good way to say that. then you actually are in a spot where even if you do receive affirmation, which is appropriate for us to do.

We affirm each other and encourage each other.

It's part of doing that.

But it doesn't poison you.

It actually inspires you.

Because what it does is it reaffirms the fact that you're doing what you're created to do.

But if you're doing it for the glory or for the affirmation, then it becomes a poison to you.

So good.

Okay.

So takeaway for today from Talnada title, what's one takeaway that we can take into our day?

Um, just one.

Yes.

Okay.

No, just the reminder that our motive for what we're doing really should be in relationship to God.

I'm doing this for him.

So I'm serving this person well.

I'm a bank teller.

I'm going to count out the change, but I'm not just going to do it with excellence.

I'm going to see that person and encourage them or

Or if I'm serving on the prayer line on Sunday morning and I feel led to really minister to somebody, it's not because I want to be known as the person to go to, but I really want to see that person really minister to.

So the idea of my motive for which I'm doing what I'm doing should be to serve, not to be served or to be known.

That's great.

I think that's a good takeaway.

All right.

All right.

Well, thanks so much for joining us today.

We will see you back here next week.

All right.

See you guys.