In the Podlight: Aurin Square - The Write Post-Strike

Summary: In this episode of In the Podlight, award-winning playwright and screenwriter Aurin Squire discusses his journey from journalism to writing for theater and television. He shares insights on the importance of representation in storytelling, the dynamics of a writer's room, and the significance of diverse voices behind the camera. Aurin also reflects on his aspirations for future projects, the influence of sports on his creative discipline, and his self-care practices as a creative professional.

Takeaways:

• Aurin Squire emphasizes the importance of writing from personal experience and perspective.
• The writer's room is a collaborative and sacred space for creativity.
• The need for representation in the industry extends beyond actors to all behind-the-scenes roles.
• Aurin advocates for access to storytelling across different identities.
• He believes in the power of diverse voices to enrich storytelling.
• Aurin's future projects aim to explore multicultural backgrounds and science fiction.
• He credits his background in sports for developing self-motivation and discipline.
• Self-care practices like meditation help him navigate the creative process.
• Aurin values the importance of community and collaboration in the arts.

Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction to Aurin Squire
00:49 - The Journey from Journalism to Playwriting
04:02 - Exploring Multicultural Perspectives in Writing
07:58 - The Dynamics of a Writer's Room
11:49 - Understanding Production Deals and Pods
18:04 - The Importance of Representation Behind the Camera
21:00 - Navigating Identity in Storytelling'
26:04 - Future Aspirations and Storytelling Goals
29:51 - The Influence of Sports on Creative Discipline
34:13 - Self-Care Practices for Creatives
36:11 - Closing Thoughts and Reflections

Connect with Aurin on Instagram
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Connect with Grant on Instagram
Connect with In The Podlight on the Website\

Check out A Wonderful World the Louis Armstrong Story Musical on their website and on Instagram

The Team:
Caroline Liem – Producer & Host
Grant Kretchick – Producer & Host
Cris Graves  - Producer & Editor
David Margolin Lawson  - Composer
Emily Yaneth Perez – Administration
The Lee Agency - Press Agent
Brandon Mills - Cover Art Photo Credit 

In the Podlight is produced in collaboration with Pace University – Sands 

●       The thoughts, opinions, and views expressed by the guests, hosts, and producers of this podcasts do not necessarily reflect those of Pace University.

Since 1906, Pace University has been transforming the lives of its diverse students—academically, professionally, and socioeconomically. With campuses in New York City and Westchester County, New York, Pace offers bachelor, master, and doctoral degree programs to 13,600 students in its College of Health Professions, Dyson College of Arts and Sciences, Elisabeth Haub School of Law, Lubin School of Business, School of Education, Seidenberg School of Computer Science and Information Systems and, most recently, the Sands College of Performing Arts.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Grant: In the Podlight is hosted on SANDS Talks, the official podcast platform of the SANDS College of Performing Arts at Pace University. 

[00:00:07] Caroline: Hi, I'm Caroline. 

[00:00:09] Grant: And I'm Grant. [00:00:10] 

[00:00:10] Caroline: Welcome to In the Podlight, where we spotlight creatives from different identities and experiences. Join us as we illuminate how they blaze a path [00:00:20] forward through the challenges and opportunities of the post pandemic entertainment industry.

[00:00:25] Grant: On today's episode, we have award winning playwright and screenwriter, Aurin Squire. We're [00:00:30] discussing his beginnings in journalism, his place in the writer's room, and how he accesses a range of perspectives in storytelling. 

[00:00:36] Caroline: Aurin is a two time recipient of the Lecomte de Nuit [00:00:40] Prize from Lincoln Center.

[00:00:41] Caroline: He's received residencies at the Royal Court Theater in London, Ars Nova, Lincoln Center Lab, National Black Theater, [00:00:50] the Dramatist Guild of America, Brooklyn Arts Exchange, and so many more, including his upcoming Broadway musical about Louis Armstrong [00:01:00] called A Wonderful World. 

[00:01:01] Grant: Let's shed some light. Hey, 

[00:01:03] Caroline: Aurin.

[00:01:04] Grant: Hey, how's it going? 

[00:01:05] Caroline: Great. It's so good to see 

[00:01:07] Grant: you. Caroline, nice to see you too. Aurin, full [00:01:10] disclosure for the audience, Aurin and I went to grad school together. It's nice to see you. Great to be here. 

[00:01:14] Caroline: So I'm going to start off with a question. I come from a casting background. So I'm a casting [00:01:20] director. I'm also part of the Asian community.

[00:01:23] Caroline: And, you know, representation is an ongoing conversation for all underrepresented groups. [00:01:30] And there aren't a lot of us in the industry or in the entertainment space. And I would dare to say even fewer in the writing space. And [00:01:40] so my first question to you is, I am so curious, what got you into writing and how and why did you choose?

[00:01:48] Aurin: Well, I went to Northwestern to [00:01:50] be a journalist because in high school I was working for various local newspapers, three local newspapers, and two online [00:02:00] magazines. So I thought I was going to be a journalist. I went to Northwestern and a computer error put me in radio, TV, and film instead of the journalism school.

[00:02:09] Aurin: I [00:02:10] went to go change my major the first week at Northwestern in the Dean of the School of Speech. Which I believe is now called the school of communication. [00:02:20] Barbara Dean, uh, talked me out of it and her pitch was there are not enough people of color in this program who are students and you can take all the [00:02:30] journalism courses you want because Medill is the number one journalism school in the country.

[00:02:36] Aurin: But it's also the toughest journalism school, which means people are dropping [00:02:40] out all the time. So she was like, you will get to take any journalism course you want. But for film, everyone wants to take film and especially the later classes. And if you [00:02:50] leave this program, you will be at the bottom of the list of people who could take classes.

[00:02:55] Aurin: You'll be at the bottom of the wait list. So why don't you just [00:03:00] stay? In radio, TV, and film, learn this and then take all the journalism courses you want and work as a reporter in your free time and during the summer. [00:03:10] And that sounded like a good deal because it sounded like I was getting a lot of pastrami in my sandwich, which is what I'm always looking for.

[00:03:19] Aurin: A lot of [00:03:20] cramming in as much for my value as possible. So it was a great pitch for someone like me to hear that. 

[00:03:26] Grant: Based on what she said, that she said there's not enough people of color in this [00:03:30] program. I'm curious when that conversation takes place, and I'm sure it takes place in a lot of spaces. I've seen it.

[00:03:36] Grant: I've witnessed it. I've been a part of it. Does that make you feel seen? I'm just [00:03:40] kind of curious what happens when, when somebody identifies that. 

[00:03:43] Aurin: I didn't really feel anything. It was just a fact where I was like, Oh, you know, I mean, if I really didn't want to be there, but [00:03:50] like, Oh, too bad. Sucks for you.

[00:03:51] Aurin: I'm just going to leave. It's more like, Oh, okay. But then she pivoted to the other argument because she realized that that [00:04:00] necessarily wasn't a winning argument for me. I was just like, all right, you don't have enough black people. I don't care. It's a good question. Yeah. I guess I see myself as an ambassador to black people back then [00:04:10] or now.

[00:04:10] Aurin: So I didn't feel the need to like plant a flag in a new department. Like I was like, okay, I'm not here to be the NAACP representative. If it happens, it [00:04:20] happens. But from my experience. as a writer, I tend to take unconventional positions. I do not take middle of the road positions or the [00:04:30] ambassadorship positions for a lot of issues.

[00:04:33] Aurin: So that in and of itself means that I have a lot of arguments with people within my culture as well as people outside of them. [00:04:40] Not because I'm trying to be a contrarian, but just because it's like, well, yeah, everyone, that's the bAuring train of thought. Why are we going with that? Let's do something else.

[00:04:48] Grant: We were already touching about the sort of [00:04:50] many facets of the themes that you write about, a lot of multicultural societies and transitions and America's changing cultural makeup. Your works reflect Latino, African, Caribbean, [00:05:00] African American, Jewish cultures that you grew up around in South Florida. How do you draw on those?

[00:05:05] Grant: And I think to these questions of like ambassadorship, and I'm going to bring it up later about the [00:05:10] LGBTQ community. community. You write what you know, because it's a lived experience for you. How do you draw on that? And do you reconcile or do you wrestle with authentically repping, [00:05:20] representing all those voices in your writing?

[00:05:22] Aurin: Not really. I don't wrestle with the representation because ultimately I write [00:05:30] to expiate my own thoughts and twists and turns in my own logic and hypocrisies and gray areas, [00:05:40] regardless of what people think. So it's put me in some positions which is advantageous and other positions which are not, but [00:05:50] I'm still going to write.

[00:05:52] Aurin: I'm still going to try to explore My own thoughts and challenge myself, and that's [00:06:00] more important than a lecturing to people who often are in the same boat as you are often liberals or in the same sphere, which [00:06:10] isn't as interesting to me, although you can make a very lucrative career doing that. 

[00:06:17] Grant: Have you been asked that before, or have you [00:06:20] faced criticism from voices that you may not sort of be a part of your identity?

[00:06:26] Grant: Has anybody said to you, like, you're writing this Jewish voice, but you are [00:06:30] not Jewish. You are writing this voice, but you are not this. 

[00:06:33] Aurin: I think, I mean, um, I'm sure they have, for the Jewish plays [00:06:40] and things I've written, not as much. I don't know what that's about. I went to a school that was mostly Jewish, elementary, middle school.[00:06:50] 

[00:06:50] Aurin: So I don't have any, there's no filter. It's like, yeah, what they're saying, you know, and certain people accept that, certain people don't, but I just comment it plain. And. [00:07:00] I've gotten a good amount of projects and jobs doing that. I don't know why, because there are plenty of Jewish writers in New York city.

[00:07:08] Aurin: But I do remember being down here in Miami, [00:07:10] applying for a museum project, national museum, and my mom saying, why are you applying for that? They're Jewish writers in New York city. And I was like, I'm going to get [00:07:20] this job. I just, I know it. I just know it. And I was like, I'm just going to get, I just know this.

[00:07:25] Aurin: So sometimes Our right brain, our subconscious [00:07:30] mind, knows things more than our logical left brain does. And as artists, the more and more we call that [00:07:40] discernment, the more magic we can add into our lives. And the more assurity we have in situations where someone's like, Why are you going out for that audition, Greg?

[00:07:48] Aurin: You're not going to get that. And you're [00:07:50] like, No, I know. I'm going to get it. And like, you get it a higher percentage of the time rather than the left brain logical things where you've sort of sussed it out and you've [00:08:00] thought it through and everything makes sense. And then most of the time you don't get those things.

[00:08:04] Aurin: It is the weird right brain things where you're like, where your friends are like, what's that? You're like, nah, I [00:08:10] know. I know. I feel this. But then you have to develop that sense of discernment. You have to develop that right brain. non [00:08:20] linear way of thinking and assessing things, and that is a whole course you could teach in art school.

[00:08:27] Aurin: Because art school is mostly, you know, background history, [00:08:30] left brain thinking. You meet the foundation of logic and structure, but it's those magical things that you cannot plan for, but that you are preparing for, that you are setting the [00:08:40] that allow the ghost and the muses and these strange things to come.

[00:08:44] Aurin: And a lot of my life has been built around that. Unfortunately, right brain thinking in these magical [00:08:50] moments, usually we can't plan out every day. And sometimes there are long pauses between. When they happen. But once you begin priming the pump and you've done it enough, you know, like, okay, it's coming.[00:09:00] 

[00:09:00] Aurin: All right, here we go. I'm on the train. I'm on the train. I feel this. I'm not getting off until I complete this project and you can't let friend or family dissuade you or [00:09:10] draw you away from it to party or hang out and dissipate that when you're in that zone. And that is a huge mission in the age of distraction [00:09:20] and social media and friendship and being nice to people that sort of dissipates our right brain discernment energy into being nice, being in [00:09:30] groups that are comfortable and like making logical choices.

[00:09:34] Aurin: What we're doing here is not logical. Wow. 

[00:09:37] Grant: I love that. For some of our listeners [00:09:40] who might not know, or for some of our student listeners, or fresh out of school listeners, can you, can, what is the normal size of a writer's room? But maybe even before that, you know, the differentiation [00:09:50] between what it's like to write a script for live theater and then workshop that.

[00:09:55] Grant: And then what is the process of a writer's room just for, you know, [00:10:00] imagine you're talking to a group of undergraduate students. 

[00:10:03] Aurin: The writer's room due to the new contract that was negotiated a few months ago is shrinking. [00:10:10] Across the board, uh, they're looking to get more work from less people. And my first job, it was probably the room that they want now, where they're going towards, [00:10:20] because it was six writers and 13 episodes, which I loved because then I met, I got a second episode, second.

[00:10:27] Aurin: You know, script fee and you get to [00:10:30] talk quicker. Other rooms, when it starts getting like eight, nine people, it's kind of like, Oh my God, you're waiting for like 10 minutes to talk and goes around this big loop by [00:10:40] the time you talk, we've already moved on to 60 other things. So I like small rooms. I think we're going to go to like five, six people, more rooms of [00:10:50] that nature and in smaller orders.

[00:10:52] Aurin: The exception is if you are. Like me, and you're in an overall deal. Then if you're in an overall deal, being in a [00:11:00] writer's room does not cost the show any money. So then they cram people who are in overall deals into rooms because it's free. And so on some of the shows, [00:11:10] there's nine or ten people because a third of them are in overall deals, so that's zero against the budget.

[00:11:15] Aurin: The studio pays you anyway, the same amount every week, you know, until your deal [00:11:20] ends, whether you're in the room or not. 

[00:11:21] Caroline: For our listeners who aren't as versed in the details of TV deals, can you explain what some of the terminology and language means? 

[00:11:29] Aurin: [00:11:30] Well, let me pull this up because this is something that I sent out today because someone was asking a question.

[00:11:36] Aurin: They were like, can you get my script to so and so celebrity? And I was like, [00:11:40] no, that's not the way this works. I'm not just someone who sends stuff out for free, like an agent that doesn't get commissioned. But I said, you want to try to get it to a pod? He was like, [00:11:50] what's a pod? I was like, okay, I should explain.

[00:11:52] Aurin: I have an overall deal. A pod is a production overall deal. They get paid. the same amount [00:12:00] every week by a studio with the expectation that any TV ideas I have, I go to them first. They have first right of refusal. And that even [00:12:10] if I do it outside of them, they are the studio that's producing it. So if a show is being picked up by Netflix or Apple, [00:12:20] CBS studios would still be the one producing it because I have a CBS overall deal and I'm expected to usually be in a room a few times and then have a [00:12:30] few projects and the studio is betting that maybe one of these projects in the period of time you have the deal We will get to screen and then maybe come something.

[00:12:39] Aurin: Now, a [00:12:40] production overall deal is usually for writers or stars or celebrities or directors who have a track record that then the studio invests more money. [00:12:50] They give you the money like I have, and then they give you usually an assistant, an office, and an executive that you get to hire. And they're paying for all of that.

[00:12:59] Aurin: [00:13:00] So you, now you have a company and you have a pod and your company, you talk to your executive. They find IP intellectual property for you to then convert into [00:13:10] TV or film. You pitch that they have first right of refusal. You have an assistant, you have an office and a phone and computers and that you you're like legit.

[00:13:19] Aurin: And so. [00:13:20] If you look at the trade and you see like hot actors coming off of TV shows or big movies, a lot of them get [00:13:30] PODs. They get PODs. And that is great because then that just gives you infrastructure to go further. What I'm doing, I'm doing this without [00:13:40] infrastructure. I'm just pitching the idea and then hoping to attach infrastructure to that.

[00:13:44] Aurin: So for the three projects I have in the pipeline right now for television, [00:13:50] those are all connected to pods. I had to go find those pods. Those pods had to find me within the CBS umbrella in your overall deal. They go, here are our pods. You [00:14:00] know, here are the people who have productions, you team up with them and you come back, or I can pitch it raw, you know, just directly to an executive, but it helps if you have the [00:14:10] backing of.

[00:14:11] Aurin: You know, a company that is usually has someone with a better track record than me or a lengthier track record and has infrastructure. [00:14:20] And then we would go out and pitch the thing to the studios. And if the studio goes, this is great, we want to buy this or. [00:14:30] CBS or one of the streaming platforms, then it stays there.

[00:14:33] Aurin: If the studio goes, this is great, but we feel like this sells better outside of us, [00:14:40] then they try to sell that. And you would say, well, why would CBS studios try to sell to Netflix? Because they can see that they can make more money doing that. So the CBS [00:14:50] studios is separate from the CBS network and the streaming platform.

[00:14:54] Grant: Fascinating and complicated and some, you know, people just don't even contemplate when [00:15:00] they're entering the business. 

[00:15:01] Aurin: Who are interested in doing more freelance or films, you can look at actors who have pods, you can look at [00:15:10] directors, and the most common thing is to write a podcast. For a leading actor, actress, if you want to be smart about it, you can [00:15:20] research who has the pods, you can research who are the underrepresented actors who may be hungrier, more interested in doing something different or taking a chance.[00:15:30] 

[00:15:30] Aurin: And you can write a script or something aimed at them. And then that as a young writer gives you a lot more power when you have a star [00:15:40] attached or a star director, who's excited about this. It's outside of the realm of what they're usually doing. That gives you Jordan Peele's monkey pod. Huge [00:15:50] development pod with Amazon, you know, so that's for television, but they have something else for film, I believe, maybe Universal, you know, and so if you have [00:16:00] something that is horror and you have a lead in it, or if you have something you think Jordan Peele would be good directing, then you might try to go to Monkeypaw and get a meeting with [00:16:10] Monkeypaw and say, this would be great for this star and for Jordan Peele to produce.

[00:16:16] Aurin: That's more likely to get you further than [00:16:20] a well crafted ensemble piece. Of five or six friends sitting together, write the thing that's going to attract a star or attract the [00:16:30] attention of a supporter. 

[00:16:31] Grant: I'm laughing thinking you watch these cliche Hollywood movies and TV shows and those about Hollywood and TV and they say, I wrote this for you.

[00:16:39] Grant: Yes. [00:16:40] You in mind. It's not cliche. 

[00:16:42] Aurin: It's not cliche. And yeah, if that person says no, you go to the next person and say, I wrote this for you. But you find generally a pool of people, [00:16:50] a certain brand, you find the pool of people that fit the brand and you start at one and you go down the list. So years ago, this is not me.

[00:16:59] Aurin: [00:17:00] This is what I heard. For everything involving a leading white female in New York City on stage, you first had to go to Meryl Streep, [00:17:10] she would say no. Then you go to Glenn Close, she would say no. And then you work your way down the list, because that fits a certain brand, you know. But you don't want to [00:17:20] start off here, and then Meryl Streep finds out about it, and she's like, I would have supported, I would have been in your movie.

[00:17:25] Aurin: What the F are you doing? And you're like, Oh my God, you know, you, you want to work your way [00:17:30] down from the top and have a list of people you can approach, whether it's a actress or a director working way down or someone who can give you some, some [00:17:40] swag to your project. 

[00:17:41] Caroline: I have a question about, it's, it's about a sense of responsibility.

[00:17:45] Caroline: So you talked about the writing, I'm talking about the writer's room. So as a [00:17:50] playwright versus. A TV writer, you know, it is one more solitary than the other. What, what is the responsibility to visibility [00:18:00] in both? It's, it's big. So wherever you want to start it and we'll just, we'll take the ride with you.

[00:18:04] Aurin: Well, TV writers rooms, at least up until now, we'll see what's happening in the next few years. [00:18:10] Our sacred space, we are allowed to sort of say whatever you want because you're trying to crack a story. You're trying to say something daring. And I've been fortunate to be in a rooms [00:18:20] where the. Interesting, daring, uncomfortable, satirical, hilarious, bizarre idea wins the day because it [00:18:30] obsesses, it leads to an obsession with the room.

[00:18:32] Aurin: It picks around, it goes around like a fever, and then people can't stop thinking about it. If the thing does not cause debate, even though [00:18:40] we all agree with it, It is not an interesting idea. And if it's not an interesting idea, it's, it will not be interesting to write, film, act, or edit. And [00:18:50] so the, the thing has to generate juice within the room, which means you have to say, you have to go far and you have to say things that aren't [00:19:00] always PC.

[00:19:02] Aurin: And go a little bit beyond the normal terms. So I love that I've had some [00:19:10] borderline conversations that I was like, Oh, maybe that was inappropriate. Afterwards, a little bit of that is just back at the school bus, insulting each other. You know, and it's that [00:19:20] combination of things which are usually ascribed to male groups, but actually exist in, in all groups, which is [00:19:30] the challenge, the toast, the roast, the, the dozens, whatever the back and forth is that creates a heat and energy in a [00:19:40] group.

[00:19:40] Grant: Is that sort of an understood or unspoken, like, code of conduct in the room? Or is it a dread, like, opening day? Like, are there high sensitivities? Is it expected? 

[00:19:49] Aurin: [00:19:50] I would like to believe it is an unspoken rule, and the writers who are assembled to We're brought into the room because they are all a [00:20:00] bit unconventional.

[00:20:01] Aurin: And if you have a leader who's allowing you to do that, then it's an opportunity to step outside of the normal boundaries. There was a famous case [00:20:10] of a writer's assistant from friends suing friends because they heard an inappropriate joke while passing by the room. And I don't think the joke made it to TV, [00:20:20] but that writer's assistant lost the case because the judge is like, that's creative call.

[00:20:25] Aurin: You can't like. If you put a sensor on that in the [00:20:30] brainstorming process, then everyone's scared. Again, the writer's room is sort of known as sacred space. You shouldn't outright harass and threaten people [00:20:40] directly. There are stories that I've heard of abusive bosses that people have had that take that freedom and use it to hurt people.

[00:20:49] Aurin: But if you [00:20:50] have a good boss and a sane boss, it should be freeing as opposed to a tool to bludgeon people into in dominating. 

[00:20:59] Caroline: [00:21:00] My follow up to that is Visibility behind camera. What does it mean for you as? LGBTQIA [00:21:10] plus global majority writer to be sure that there's representation in front of behind the camera.

[00:21:15] Aurin: Oh, it means a lot. I think around award season, [00:21:20] we focus on representation that is glamorous and in front of the camera. It's nothing wrong with that. But the 90 percent of jobs in the industry are [00:21:30] not the actor saying the lines. It's the script coordinator, it's the crew, it's the creative departments, the writers, the directors, or [00:21:40] producers.

[00:21:40] Aurin: The accountants, all of these people are involved in this machinery. And the more diverse you can make it, not only in race, but in background and opinion, [00:21:50] the larger pool of experiences you can draw on and make a more dynamic piece of art, a TV, unlike. Writing a play is a very [00:22:00] collaborative art form. And so the more people who are playing nice together, who can add to it, I find out things that I would have never known [00:22:10] from someone who is a lot older than me, or someone who's a lot younger than me, someone from different regions of the country, they'll say something and I'm like, okay, but there's a fine line between [00:22:20] bullying and making people expand their horizons, 

[00:22:24] Grant: you nailed it with 90 percent of the jobs in this business are.

[00:22:27] Grant: not in front of the camera. Caroline and I have talked [00:22:30] with different advocacy groups in different spaces and certainly talked to actors that have been in a scenario where they're a certain type of actor or actress [00:22:40] and they're being prompted by the writers to help tell a story authentically but not getting the the sort of credit for that or compensation [00:22:50] for that because there's nobody in the room that represents the voice of that character.

[00:22:55] Grant: So have you, are you sometimes, are your rooms [00:23:00] diverse? 

[00:23:00] Aurin: It's now going on nine years, 19 years of rooms. I've been in kind of diverse rooms. Only the first room was I the only person of color. And that [00:23:10] was cause it was six people. It was a small room, but as far as the other representation, like. 40 percent of us were gay.

[00:23:17] Aurin: So there you go. So like, [00:23:20] it was fine. And I felt completely fine at home. For the other shows, it's usually been a few or more. As far as representation of race, 30 or 40 percent as far as [00:23:30] LGBT, religion wise, you know, probably half. Or more than half are alt or non christian identifying, so I've been in [00:23:40] pretty good rooms.

[00:23:41] Aurin: And I said this a few years ago in the start of the quarantine where everyone was bored and doing like podcasts, and I was doing something about a screenwriting [00:23:50] podcast with other Black writers, and I guess I was the only writer that had that experience. Everyone else had been the only Black person. In the room for like almost all their jobs.

[00:23:59] Aurin: And I was like, Oh no, [00:24:00] that's not my experience. 

[00:24:00] Caroline: I have a question about advocacy groups on any of your shows, you know, 

[00:24:04] Aurin: has GLAAD been represented in anything? Yeah, we bring in experts all the time for This Is Us, [00:24:10] transracial adoption. We talked to people who went through that for Good Fight. What an episode involving a case with Olympic swimmer who [00:24:20] was a transgender woman and competing.

[00:24:22] Aurin: And we were all thinking, I don't want to write it. Not it. Not writing that. Good luck. And [00:24:30] so, you know, a lot of interviewing different people, talking to different groups in trying to thread the needle carefully. To show what a real case [00:24:40] would look like. And at the same time, not being homophobic or transphobic.

[00:24:44] Grant: We should have talked a bit, a little bit about this with just writing, but in sort of, you know, representation [00:24:50] and authentic voices and, you know, writing for something, you know, and lived experiences, that's also such a big conversation with actors and, you know, this. statement will, will date [00:25:00] this podcast, but I was reading a Times article today.

[00:25:02] Grant: You know, Coleman Domingo is in a rare class of two openly gay men who've been nominated for playing openly gay [00:25:10] men. And yet many straight actors have won for playing gay or queer or transgendered. And, You know, there's always been a, [00:25:20] I think, historically conversation like, can men write strong women?

[00:25:25] Grant: What's your opinion on just people taking roles if they're not particularly [00:25:30] in the same lane identity wise? I 

[00:25:32] Aurin: think it was done respectfully and done with care concerned. And it's the best person for the job. That's fine. As a [00:25:40] person of color for most of my life, the stories are told by white people, even if they're about black people.

[00:25:44] Aurin: And so the correction is okay. Well, only black people can tell stories about black people, [00:25:50] but even that doesn't hold true. So then the correction goes. Well, black writers can only tell stories about black people. Meanwhile, white people can tell stories about white people, sometimes about black people, sometimes [00:26:00] about native Americans sometimes.

[00:26:01] Aurin: And I'm like, wait a minute. So I'm limited here, but you have access to all this. I want that access. So we either have to choose either. [00:26:10] We are all in our own box. Or I want the access of a white guy who's able to write across multiple things. It can't be both. When I go for something else, you can't be [00:26:20] like, no, no, stay in your box.

[00:26:21] Aurin: And then meanwhile, I notice, you know, Kyle Toblerone is getting another civil rights movie. And I'm like, how did that happen? Like, I thought we were supposed [00:26:30] to be in our own box. Like you can't play it both ways. So that's my thing. Helen Mirren played gold in my ear and, you know, she did it well. And people were like, well, [00:26:40] we don't agree with that.

[00:26:40] Aurin: I'm like. From this indie film financing, Helen Mirren gets you to do your movie. Another actress who might be [00:26:50] more authentic does not get the money. So are you going to tell a filmmaker, well, you just can't do the film then. And so it was like, well, I have this obstacle. I need to get [00:27:00] money. And then I needed a star to attract money.

[00:27:02] Aurin: But the star is British, which means it goes against the rules. So then the story never gets made. And it's like, no. And then the director's Jewish and Israeli. [00:27:10] He was like, I want this person for the job because they're the best person for it. And the movie gets done. There's 

[00:27:16] Grant: such nuance sometimes. 

[00:27:19] Aurin: The whole thing with [00:27:20] Maestro.

[00:27:20] Aurin: I haven't finished it yet. I haven't, I only watched the first few minutes, so I don't have an opinion about it. But like, there was that whole big issue with Maestro. And I'm like, well, are we really [00:27:30] going there? Are we really going to say only Jewish people could play Shylock? Only Black people can play Othello, only Latino people, well Latino people can play [00:27:40] anything but Shakespeare then.

[00:27:41] Aurin: Like, are we just saying like, oh well, that's your thing. I think it's a little sad because as artists we're trying to expand our boundaries. There was a point in L. A. while [00:27:50] I was driving around a different meeting for movies about Black guy who gets locked up and becomes a boxer. A rapper who goes to prison becomes an actor, an actor who goes to prison [00:28:00] becomes a rapper slash boxer, a boxer who goes to prison and becomes, you know, and it's fine.

[00:28:06] Aurin: Those stories are important, but I remember [00:28:10] thinking in transit between meetings on Santa Monica Boulevard, if this is the rest of my life. I would feel so depressed. [00:28:20] I have so much more in me that I want to show and express and explore. Yes. Black people incarcerated is a part of that. And the problems [00:28:30] with that and the incarcerated state.

[00:28:32] Aurin: Yes. But I have so much more I want to talk about than just that or slavery or the civil rights. Like that's [00:28:40] just me. Some people only want to talk about that. And then that's great. You want to talk about the. history of your people, and that is your mission in [00:28:50] life, and you came to this planet to do that, that is great.

[00:28:54] Aurin: But to me, I think our expertise is not only based around our born [00:29:00] identities, it's based around the things we became fascinated with in this world that aren't always attached to who we are, they're attached to where our mind goes, [00:29:10] they're attached to what we're fascinated with, and it would be wonderful to be able to tell those stories as well as the identity stories.

[00:29:17] Caroline: I love that. So let's, let's talk [00:29:20] about what the goal, the wish is the next thing, you know, because look on your accolades and your awards and your acknowledgement for all your work. It's vast and it's really [00:29:30] beautiful. But what's next for you? What? What have you not attained or what are the stories that you do want to tell?

[00:29:35] Aurin: I would like to talk more about the [00:29:40] multiracial background that I came from and the confluence, it's going to seem like pandering, the connection between Jewish and Black people that existed in my family, that exists in [00:29:50] Miami, that I feel like is ignored or severed. the nuances of Black people in the South, because there's a whole Migration [00:30:00] of black people moving back down South.

[00:30:03] Aurin: So there's a reason for that. I would like to talk about science fiction. One of my favorite books growing up was Isaac [00:30:10] Asimov's, the foundation series. And I was, I was fascinated with that. And then my mom got me on Michael Crichton and I read all of his books. [00:30:20] And then Jurassic Park came out as a book and I gobbled that up and I didn't care about, I didn't care about dinosaurs, but it was so well researched that it touched on something [00:30:30] universal.

[00:30:30] Aurin: I don't know what it touched on as a child while I was like, Oh, I'm interested in this. That, that is a thing when it's something that you are surprised that you're interested [00:30:40] in. And you can't stop reading it, or you can't stop researching it. That's a sign there was a nonfiction book by the writer John Seabrook, I may be getting the [00:30:50] name wrong, it's one of the New Yorker writers, called Oranges, it's about the history of oranges.

[00:30:54] Aurin: You would think, put me to sleep. Oh my God, what? And it is fascinating, the [00:31:00] attention to detail, with oranges and tracking that kid. You tell a story about oranges. It has a narrative that follows people. Lynn Nottage wrote a [00:31:10] great play a few years ago, Malima's tale about the ivory and you track the product.

[00:31:15] Aurin: And as a product goes to different people, you learn their story, [00:31:20] how they're a part of the product and the product gets passed along. Could you do that for oranges? Could you do that for sugar in this country? Could you do that for high fructose [00:31:30] corn syrup? And you track. The trajectory of the product as it is poisoning people down to the kid drinking the soda in the [00:31:40] bodega and like showing the, the connections between people that were not even aware of it as someone who's a buddhist, crazy buddhist stories that [00:31:50] are epic.

[00:31:51] Aurin: adventurous, big, entertaining, funny stories, Jataka tales, the stories of Buddha's past lives. 

[00:31:58] Grant: And we just, this is sort of more [00:32:00] fun lightning round question. 

[00:32:01] Caroline: I would love to know Aurin, how your background in sports, I mean, team player, heavy hitter [00:32:10] has influenced your roadmap, your trajectory, your path as a producer, playwright, screenwriter, reporter.[00:32:20] 

[00:32:20] Caroline: Extraordinaire. 

[00:32:20] Aurin: I feel like everyone I meet at a certain level had some background where they were either playing a sport or playing an instrument. [00:32:30] When they were young, they developed a habit of self motivation and getting to the page and doing the thing. And And as I get older, [00:32:40] I realized that was a gift, even if you don't end up playing the piano 10 years later or playing professional football, it's a gift of just the training of like waking up, [00:32:50] being motivated, going, doing the thing, and there are team sports that I played, football, when they're individual things like tennis and wrestling, which is also a different [00:33:00] skill of like, I'm on a court by myself.

[00:33:02] Aurin: I am thinking through a strategy that is shifting. I'm going to try this. I'm going to try that. And I'm figuring things out [00:33:10] versus team leadership. And I think for a writer, There are times when you are the tennis player and there are times you're in a football game [00:33:20] or a baseball game, and it's a team sport and you have to know how to work together and switch between those two modes.

[00:33:25] Aurin: So I think if you can draw on that skill from childhood, [00:33:30] anything you did that created. Any sort of rigor or habit, whether it's, I played the violin and viola too. So whether it's music, whether it's playing sports, whether it's [00:33:40] competing against something that serves you so well in life, because when you enter college for the first time as an adult, you're free and you see that freedom [00:33:50] destroy a lot of people.

[00:33:51] Aurin: If you are not hanging out with the right people is go is the downfall of most artists and most motivated people. You have to know. [00:34:00] Like in sports, where you want to go and who's going with you. And I've said this in other podcasts, it has to be in that order. If it's in the other [00:34:10] order, your life will never go right.

[00:34:11] Aurin: If you're worried about who you're going to be around and then where you're going to go, your group is always going to be a bunch of randos who are going to be pulling [00:34:20] you away from your passion. 

[00:34:21] Caroline: What are your self care go to's? How do you care for self? 

[00:34:24] Aurin: Meditate every day. I keep vows. I usually, I don't know.

[00:34:27] Aurin: I'm studying some Buddhist [00:34:30] scripture, whether around compassion or wisdom. I read a lot of different magazines and books. I keep my cell phone in the other room when I go to sleep at night and I [00:34:40] drink a lot of water. And as I get older, I stay out cultural conversations on social media of rage. I [00:34:50] Notice it, I observe it, I watch it pass by, and that ability to not get entangled is such a huge self care [00:35:00] mechanism in the scrolling culture that is an attention based model trying to snag us, ensnare us, and get us into the [00:35:10] rage reaction mode.

[00:35:11] Aurin: If you can just let things pass by, like in meditation, you get a distracted idea, you know? Beat yourself up. You just have to let it [00:35:20] pass by. You try to go back to your center. Then another distracting idea comes. You let it pass by. You go, you know, I think that would help out a lot of [00:35:30] people with smartphones because it helps me out to just put it down.

[00:35:33] Grant: Okay, lightning round. What was the first piece of music you ever bought? 

[00:35:36] Aurin: First pieces of music I bought were in a banjo shop. [00:35:40] So where I practice a violin in a closet in the back of the banjo shop with the, with the owner. So it was a lot of country music. It was a lot of [00:35:50] like Irish washerwoman jigs and maybe Brandenburg concerto part one and two.

[00:35:55] Aurin: Like maybe I, I think I bought that to listen to it, to practice. [00:36:00] If you're talking about popular music, it's probably Mary J. Blige because at that point in my life, I had stopped listening to popular music. I just hated it so much. I just stopped for [00:36:10] years and years. And then the first time I turned on MTV, they were playing Mary J.

[00:36:14] Aurin: Blige's Real Love. And I was like, Oh, this is good. I like after being removed from pop [00:36:20] culture and pop music for like years. Yeah. She was my diving end point in my entry, my gateway drug back into pop music. 

[00:36:27] Caroline: What's the last random thing that made you smile? 

[00:36:29] Aurin: [00:36:30] Well, these conversations we're having, 

[00:36:31] Grant: what's your favorite family tradition or chosen tradition that you.

[00:36:36] Aurin: We don't have a lot of traditions in my family, but I guess [00:36:40] Thanksgiving, we tried to get together and cook. So that's one of the last remaining things we sort of keep consistent with. [00:36:50] Or the day after Christmas, getting people together. Now it's gone down to just me, my mom and my sister. But the day after Christmas used to involve, you know, [00:37:00] dozens of relatives coming over and there was just.

[00:37:03] Aurin: a bond around food that was fun or interesting, you know, that, that was, I [00:37:10] think the last remaining tradition we have. 

[00:37:12] Caroline: What's, what's the dish? What's the thing that Brought y'all together with knives and forks and spoons. Using 

[00:37:18] Aurin: the traditional stuff [00:37:20] and some mac and cheese, though I can't eat that anymore.

[00:37:23] Aurin: Think about all the stuff I used to eat that I can't eat anymore. Katies of Groton, can't eat that anymore. There was something called a 30 day cake [00:37:30] that we would make. You begin making it the day of Thanksgiving or the day afterwards, you put the fruit in a jar and you let it [00:37:40] ferment and you stir it.

[00:37:41] Aurin: And then within by the 30th day, you take it out and you cook it. And it's a wonderful, flavorful sort of [00:37:50] fruitcake and with, with all these spices in it. And so that is a little bit of a unusual thing that involves tradition and involves a ritual in [00:38:00] stirring it. And this. 

[00:38:01] Grant: Or in, you know, I won't say how many years it's been since grad school and we've run into each other in random passings.

[00:38:08] Grant: This was, uh, [00:38:10] this was informative and I learned. A lot. And, and it's inspiring, you know, thank you for being with us. 

[00:38:17] Caroline: This has been great. Thank you so much. 

[00:38:18] Aurin: Thank you for having me. Yeah, [00:38:20] it's been good to go down memory lane. 

[00:38:22] Caroline: Wow. What an amazing conversation, Grant. What's resonating for me is his being in truth with who you are [00:38:30] and how you are, no matter what the room looks like.

[00:38:33] Caroline: He wears so many hats and he brings it all forward, not leaving out any part of who he is. 

[00:38:39] Grant: [00:38:40] Yeah, it's, it's perspectives like his that can really help inspire all of us to keep moving the needle forward. I was most blown away by how [00:38:50] open Aurin was with sharing his, his experiences and just his philosophy on life.

[00:38:54] Grant: And how he approaches work. 

[00:38:56] Caroline: You can follow Aurin Squire on Instagram at [00:39:00] Aurin Squire. 

[00:39:00] Grant: Don't forget to check out his new Broadway show, A Wonderful World, the Louis Armstrong musical. It's opening on Broadway, October, 2024. 

[00:39:08] Caroline: Thanks so much for listening [00:39:10] to In the Podlight. If these conversations resonate with you, follow on SANDS Talks or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:39:17] Caroline: Visit our website at inthepodlight. [00:39:20] com. Until next time, step into your light. 

[00:39:23] Grant: Since 1906, Pace University has been transforming the lives of its students with bachelor's, master's, and doctoral degree programs [00:39:30] with campuses in New York City and Westchester County. For more information, visit pace. edu. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed by the guest, host, and producers of this podcast do [00:39:40] not necessarily reflect those of Pace University.