In the Podlight: Michelle Sugihara - Moving the Needle with CAPE

Summary: In this episode of In the Podlight, Michelle Sugihara, the executive director of the Coalition of Asian Pacific’s in Entertainment (CAPE) discusses CAPE's mission to increase representation and visibility for Asian Americans, Native Hawaiians, and Pacific Islanders in the entertainment industry. Michelle shares insights on the importance of coalition building, the impact of representation in media, and the challenges faced by underrepresented groups in a contracting industry. The conversation also touches on the future of storytelling, the significance of mentorship, and advice for young artists navigating their careers in a diverse yet challenging landscape.

Takeaways

• CAPE has been advocating for Asian Pacific Islander representation since 1991.
• Representation begins on the page, which is why CAPE focuses on writers.
• The entertainment industry is cyclical, with shifts in opportunities for diverse voices.
• Coalition building is essential for amplifying underrepresented stories.
• The conversation around representation is becoming more nuanced and intersectional.
• Failure is a necessary part of creativity and risk-taking.
• CAPE is a resource for both high-level executives and entry-level professionals.
• Community is crucial for marginalized artists to uplift each other.
• The industry is currently facing contraction, affecting opportunities for diverse voices.
• Young artists should not compromise their identity and should build their networks.
• The journey of an actor requires persistence and adaptability.
• Community support is vital for artists to flourish.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction to CAPE and Michelle Sugihara
02:15 CAPE's Mission and Programs
04:50 Impact of Representation in Media
08:55 Coalition Building and Community Engagement
12:40 Future Challenges and Opportunities for CAPE
15:44 Navigating Industry Changes and Representation
19:54 Advice for Young Artists and Marginalized Voices
22:12 Closing Thoughts and Future Aspirations

Connect with Michelle on Instagram
Connect with CAPE on Instagram
Connect with Caroline on Instagram
Connect with Grant on Instagram
Connect with In The Podlight on the Website

Check out CAPE on their website 

The Team:
Caroline Liem – Producer & Host
Grant Kretchick – Producer & Host
Cris Graves  - Producer & Editor
David Margolin Lawson  - Composer
Emily Yaneth Perez – Administration
The Lee Agency - Press Agent
Brandon Mills - Cover Art Photo Credit  

In the Podlight is produced in collaboration with Pace University – Sands
The thoughts, opinions, and views expressed by the guests, hosts, and producers of this podcasts do not necessarily refle

Since 1906, Pace University has been transforming the lives of its diverse students—academically, professionally, and socioeconomically. With campuses in New York City and Westchester County, New York, Pace offers bachelor, master, and doctoral degree programs to 13,600 students in its College of Health Professions, Dyson College of Arts and Sciences, Elisabeth Haub School of Law, Lubin School of Business, School of Education, Seidenberg School of Computer Science and Information Systems and, most recently, the Sands College of Performing Arts.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Grant: In the Podlight is hosted on SANDS Talks, the official podcast platform of the SANDS College of Performing Arts at Pace University. 

[00:00:07] Caroline: Hi, I'm Caroline. 

[00:00:08] Grant: And I'm Grant. 

[00:00:09] Caroline: [00:00:10] Welcome to In the Podlight, where we spotlight creatives from different identities and experiences. 

[00:00:15] Grant: Join us as we illuminate how they blaze a path forward through the challenges and opportunities [00:00:20] of a post pandemic entertainment industry.

[00:00:22] Caroline: On today's episode, we're so thrilled to have a guest who is from an organization that is near and dear to my heart, Michelle Sugihara the [00:00:30] executive director of CAPE, the coalition of Asian Pacifics and entertainment is known for their advocacy of Asian Americans, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islanders in the [00:00:40] entertainment industry with her strategic vision.

[00:00:42] Caroline: Michelle is a dedicated activist and change maker in the entertainment industry with a background in law and a. [00:00:50] for storytelling. She is of increasing representation for Asian american, nativ Islander communities [00:01:00] in H Cape in 2014. Michelle ha of groundbreaking program training and resources to producers, performers [00:01:10] and to shape a more inclusive 

[00:01:16] Grant: Michele's passion for her work at CAPE is truly inspiring.

[00:01:19] Grant: She's an [00:01:20] extraordinary example of someone being the change we want to see in the world. We dive deep into the incredible work Michele and CAPE are doing in community and coalition building by [00:01:30] fostering collaboration among diverse organizations and creating a supportive network within the Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander communities.

[00:01:38] Grant: CAPE is paving the way for [00:01:40] better representation on screen, on stage, and behind the scenes. We also explore how crucial coalition building is for amplifying voices and driving systemic change. [00:01:50] 

[00:01:50] Caroline: Let's shed some light. Hey Michelle! Hi 

[00:01:52] Grant: Michelle, how are you? 

[00:01:53] Caroline: I'm great. Thanks for having me. Nice to see you. It is so great to see you and to have this time [00:02:00] with you to talk about all the really great things that are happening with CAPE.

[00:02:02] Caroline: I'm just going to jump in, yeah? Let's 

[00:02:04] Grant: do it. 

[00:02:04] Caroline: All right. I'm ready. So we're talking with people all over. [00:02:10] And a lot of them are students. So in your own words, would you please share what is CAPE? Hi, I'd 

[00:02:15] Michelle: be happy to. Thank you again for having me. And it's so wonderful to be here. [00:02:20] CAPE started in 1991. So it's been over three decades that we've been doing this work.

[00:02:26] Michelle: CAPE stands for the Coalition of Asian Pacifics and Entertainment. [00:02:30] And we were started by three at the time, very senior executives in the business. Yes. Who looked around and said, there must be more of us. And since then, our [00:02:40] work is to uplift and to support Asian Pacific Islander creatives and stories.

[00:02:45] Michelle: So both behind and in front of the camera, and we do our work in three main buckets. [00:02:50] So the first bucket is our pathway programs. We started with writers. 12 years ago because we said representation begins on the page. And then seven years [00:03:00] ago, we went to the other end of the spectrum and focused on creative executives.

[00:03:03] Michelle: So these are the people who green light the stories, who shepherd them and ultimately affect what ends up [00:03:10] on screen. And then since then, we've developed even more programs for animation directors, independent filmmakers. We just launched two new programs, one for showrunners who are [00:03:20] the top on the creative side on the TV side.

[00:03:22] Michelle: And then one for feature film independent directors as well. And then the second bucket is we do script [00:03:30] consulting and trainings for all of the major studios. So, anything from the very beginning, when they first acquire an IP or a script, all the way through [00:03:40] promotion and celebration of the projects that get made.

[00:03:43] Michelle: And then that brings us to our third bucket, which is the actual promotion and uplifting of projects that get made. Because [00:03:50] it's a business, and if people don't watch something that's been made, does that really move the needle? And so, with these three areas, we say we're changing representation from the [00:04:00] writer's room, to the boardroom, to your living room.

[00:04:02] Grant: I'm wondering, what are three benchmarks that let you know that your mission is needed, impactful, and is succeeding? 

[00:04:09] Michelle: [00:04:10] Oh, I love this. Well, so for me, it's very clear in my mind because I started working at CAPE nine years ago. As the executive [00:04:20] director, and that was one month after Fresh Off the Boat premiered on ABC.

[00:04:24] Michelle: And so that was one of those moments where we were having [00:04:30] conversations that it was the first time in 20 years that we could see an Asian family on primetime on a major network. And since then, so many more shows have been made. [00:04:40] Have come and unfortunately gone, but that's part of the evolution of TV as we all know is shows come and go, but it's been really amazing to see [00:04:50] the different types of stories that are being told now, the different projects that are being greenlit.

[00:04:55] Michelle: We just worked on the Sympathizer that came out [00:05:00] recently on Max and a project like that I don't think was even on our radar 10 years ago that we could be watching that on. a streamer [00:05:10] today. So certainly the benchmarks are what projects are being made, who's getting hired to tell the stories, because that's also very important, like who's behind [00:05:20] the scenes, who's the writer, who's the director, and then also just the awareness of the viewing public.

[00:05:28] Michelle: I mean I think that has really [00:05:30] changed the game. Social media has changed the game, the types of questions and pushback that we're getting from the audiences. Are really helping to eradicate [00:05:40] or at least diminish the stereotypical portrayals that we've been seeing. 

[00:05:44] Grant: Nothing makes me feel older than feeling like, wow, fresh off the boat was already nine years ago.[00:05:50] 

[00:05:50] Grant: I had just sort of moved to Los Angeles and now it's been 10 years. I'm old. Time flies. Thank you for that answer. I was curious, you know, just for our listeners or for people [00:06:00] who are engaged in identity and informing coalitions and in trying to build and establish conversations around many different topics or many different identities like CAPE, how do you [00:06:10] bring players to a table?

[00:06:11] Grant: How do you know who gets a seat? How does a coalition form? I 

[00:06:15] Michelle: think that's something that's really exciting about this work too, is that we do [00:06:20] Get a chance to work with a lot of different groups. So for example, we are part of this group. called Storyline Partners, and it's a collective of [00:06:30] like minded non profits who are working in the entertainment space to diversify these stories.

[00:06:35] Michelle: So, Define American, they focus on the immigrant narratives, [00:06:40] the Muslim Public Affairs Council, and so on. It looks out for Muslim stories and there's 12 or so different orgs that belong to that coalition. And so [00:06:50] really pushing Hollywood stories from all angles, I think is also really important. And then I would also say just, just even within the [00:07:00] Asian diaspora, as well as the Pacific Island.

[00:07:02] Michelle: There are communities, there are so many different stories there, because again, one thing we always say is like, we're not a monolith. Like, [00:07:10] there's no like Asian story, right? So there's a lot of different experiences and stories. And so within our own umbrellas, there is a lot of. Diversity and [00:07:20] richness in terms of the stories.

[00:07:21] Caroline: I love that. And there's, there's so much, there's so many levels, there's such depth in the stories and the language and the [00:07:30] background in all of these groups that, for the most part, we wish that it was authentic representation across the board, but in many [00:07:40] respects, underrepresented groups could be more visible.

[00:07:44] Caroline: So, I would really love for you to talk about has the needle really moved? Has it moved [00:07:50] as fast as we'd like it to move? Is it moving fast enough? 

[00:07:53] Michelle: I mean it depends how patient you are but you know anything of this magnitude it takes time and [00:08:00] because we're we're still within the bigger industry and we've seen a lot of changes both good and bad.

[00:08:07] Michelle: I mean I think the Me Too movement also [00:08:10] changed how a lot of the people that we saw at the top but. Maybe the pendulum is swinging again. And so that's the hard part about any industry. I think it is [00:08:20] cyclical and we see shifts in the pendulum. Certainly, I think progress has been made just seeing the amount of content that I've even seen in these past 10 years [00:08:30] and that the needle is continuing to move because of the consulting work that we do.

[00:08:34] Michelle: We get to see a lot of the projects coming down the pipeline. So I am [00:08:40] seeing it, but also understanding that this is an industry. in a major shift right now. We're seeing its peak contraction, right? The, the thing that [00:08:50] people are saying is survive until 2025 and we're coming out of the strike. We're heading into a big election cycle.

[00:08:57] Michelle: All of these things affect what's [00:09:00] happening. And so it's hard to say, right? I don't have a crystal ball and none of us do. And it's sort of, how do we ride through everything that's This [00:09:10] could be a year that we really just have to. Hunker down, not to be a downer, but it's, but it's the way the industry goes [00:09:20] and as well as our whole economy in general.

[00:09:22] Caroline: You, you did speak to a couple of projects that are models that are really changing the [00:09:30] conversation. Are there any particular projects that you recognize as the gold standard in where we want this needle to go that's on its way? Certainly, Crazy Rich Asians, Onward. [00:09:40] Are there other projects that you would say that are coming along that we should be looking for?

[00:09:45] Michelle: Yeah, I mean, I think no project is perfect, unfortunately, but I [00:09:50] think with each one, it's also the volume that's also moving the needle. So it's not just, oh, this is the one that is moving the needle, but all together. When we [00:10:00] have a collection of different types of stories, I think that's also very helpful for us to celebrate.

[00:10:06] Michelle: But also larger than that, not just any one project, but what I have [00:10:10] noticed over the years is the change. In the conversations and then it's become a lot more nuanced. So for example, when we had earlier [00:10:20] shows, we were talking about just being represented on screen. And then as time progressed, the conversation started to talk more about the [00:10:30] intersectionality is like, what are the hyphenates within the different communities?

[00:10:34] Michelle: So it's just not being just Asian or Pacific Islander, but also being [00:10:40] in gendered, or LGBTQIA and so what are those intersections? What are those stories like? And then we started talking about body types, uh, [00:10:50] colorism. Who, who gets to play what role? I mean, like, these conversations are getting a lot more in depth and nuanced, and I think that's, to me, is the [00:11:00] sign of progress too.

[00:11:01] Michelle: And then also people talk about Are we able to fail? Right? Because before it was like, oh, you have one bad film and then we're never gonna do that again. Whereas [00:11:10] maybe another community will just keep getting more and more chances and opportunities at that, that maybe people of color don't always get.

[00:11:18] Michelle: So that's another way that I can [00:11:20] look at, but that's progress too, right? It doesn't always have to be like, The home run Grand Slam every single time in order for us to get another [00:11:30] one. 

[00:11:30] Grant: It's so important to be able to fail because then it means you can take risks. It means you can go further. It's not like you're looking for permission, but in some ways it does sort of really open up the space [00:11:40] to do more.

[00:11:40] Grant: I have a question. Are you sought out? Are there projects that you become aware of that are going out where you're concerned it may be misrepresentation. And do you. [00:11:50] offer your services? Or is it a variety? I've assumed they don't have to consult you. A project doesn't have to, but have you become the go to?

[00:11:58] Grant: Or do you try to get out ahead of a [00:12:00] project before when you hear it's coming? 

[00:12:01] Michelle: That's a great question. At this point, we're on retainer with all of the major studios. And so it's just, we are the go to there. And [00:12:10] so we haven't had the opportunity or. really the, the need to chase any projects at this point so far, but I mean, that's not to say that that won't be the [00:12:20] case in the future.

[00:12:20] Michelle: It's, Really for us when we consult our philosophy is that it's not censorship, it's conversations. And so we really see ourselves as [00:12:30] partners with the studio or the production company and making it the best product that can be put out into the world. And so really we're, [00:12:40] we're just fortunate to be able to work with.

[00:12:41] Michelle: So, Michelle, 

[00:12:42] Caroline: there's so many great things that CAPE is doing as the organization, but also for the industry and also for our [00:12:50] people. What about the future? There have been these beautiful milestones in the last three decades. What is, what is next? What's the dream? 

[00:12:57] Michelle: We've been thinking a lot about [00:13:00] what the future holds.

[00:13:00] Michelle: This future is going to look like it's changing so fast. I, for one, I'm extremely bullish on AI. I think we're at an inflection point. We're going to [00:13:10] see the industry change a lot potentially. And I, I don't know. I wish I knew because then I could make sure to be positioned there. Is it [00:13:20] rain Wayne Gretzky who says I.

[00:13:22] Michelle: I go where the puck is gonna be, not where the puck is, and so that's always something that I think about, like, how can Kate best position ourselves for [00:13:30] that future, but I think that's another reason why this year might be very pivotal for the reasons that we spoke about earlier. If we are gonna have this [00:13:40] contraction, how long is it gonna last before the pendulum starts to swing back out?

[00:13:43] Michelle: I heard something like, there's only eight original pilots this year, and like, [00:13:50] before it was like 60 or 80, but like to go down to single digits, like that is a very different world than we've lived in for [00:14:00] a long time. Just a few years ago, it was what, 599 different scripted shows on various platforms and to really have [00:14:10] the pendulum swing back so severely.

[00:14:13] Michelle: I think is, is something that should give us all pause. So, and I'm normally very optimistic about the [00:14:20] future. I still am, but there's also the reality that we're all living in and coming out of the strikes in particular with this particular [00:14:30] polarization of the election cycle. Where is DEI headed? There's a lot of Things that are converging that I don't know that we've had to deal with all at once.

[00:14:39] Grant: So [00:14:40] interesting. And oftentimes when things had one direction, it doubles our work, I think, as artists in so many ways. 

[00:14:47] Michelle: But I also think it creates opportunities. [00:14:50] So it's really interesting. I think what we're seeing now is on the acting front, the actors that I've been talking to, they're saying work is slow, but.

[00:14:59] Michelle: [00:15:00] Now they're able to do more independent projects, maybe projects that they've wanted to do, but didn't have the time to do before because everybody still wants to work and hone their skills. [00:15:10] And so maybe that's one avenue that we'll see flourish is something that I'm hoping. You're 

[00:15:15] Grant: talking a lot about some of the challenges that lie ahead in a sort of broader [00:15:20] picture of the entertainment industry.

[00:15:21] Grant: What do you identify as your current obstacles that are Getting in the way of the objectives or goals for CAPE. 

[00:15:28] Michelle: I don't think it's too [00:15:30] different from the conversation we've been talking about. Honestly, it's really the effect of the overall industry. It's not anything that I feel is [00:15:40] particularly unique to CAPE.

[00:15:44] Michelle: But it is really how do we continue to champion our [00:15:50] people when the industry itself is contracting, right? So we talked a little bit about, like, we have an exact program focusing on the people with the power to green light stories. [00:16:00] But when The numbers come out that a third of executives have been laid off in the past quarter.

[00:16:07] Michelle: Like that's, that's very dire. And [00:16:10] so it's like, how are we going to continue to make sure that people are ready to continue in the workforce when the pendulum swings back? And so [00:16:20] it's a little bit of some defensive and offensive posturing. And so how can we make sure that we're continuing to support the communities that [00:16:30] we serve?

[00:16:31] Michelle: When there might not have been as many opportunities. As there have been in the past, even five years. 

[00:16:38] Grant: Some of the conversations that we're having, [00:16:40] there's such visibility when you're on stage or in front of the camera. And then sometimes this representation off camera, or at the executive level as you're talking about, it falls [00:16:50] down there in so many ways.

[00:16:51] Grant: There's the writers, there's directors, and then the on camera talent. How do you, is CAPE working in any way, or do you identify in any way challenges [00:17:00] for Asian community, Asian representation, beyond the obvious? It's buckets that everybody looks at, like the actor, the director, the writer. Are there challenges in making sure that [00:17:10] there's representation at the executive level or just even at the production assistant level?

[00:17:15] Michelle: I think it's all the way down. That's one of the reasons that on our executive [00:17:20] track, we started a fellowship for assistants and coordinators. That's really the gateway. a lot of times into the industry. If you want to work on the exec side, like how do you [00:17:30] even get in if you don't know anyone in the industry?

[00:17:33] Michelle: And so very proud of that fellowship. It was two of our alumni from our exec fellowship who came back to [00:17:40] us and said, we love this fellowship. We learned everything. We loved everything that we learned, but we wish we had had it earlier in our career. So they came back and they said, we want to start something [00:17:50] for assistants and coordinators.

[00:17:51] Michelle: And that's where CEEC, C E E C, it stands for Cape Emerging Executive Committee was formed. And so that's, that's about a [00:18:00] year in, we're about ready to launch year two. And so that's something that, um, I think it is really important because it's like, how do we even get people into the system? [00:18:10] Another thing is we get a lot of inbound requests for, Hey, we, we just got this IP, we're looking for a showrunner, or we're ready to staff, or we have 10 episodes, we need 10 directors, [00:18:20] I can meet, can give us recommendations.

[00:18:22] Michelle: And the inbound request has just outpaced our small team's ability to respond quickly. Quick enough. So we [00:18:30] are working on making our internal database public facing. And so that is something that we're hoping to launch very shortly. And so that'll be available to the [00:18:40] public 24 7 for free. So that's, that's something because one of the things we always hear is we would have hired them, but we couldn't find them.

[00:18:49] Michelle: So we said, [00:18:50] okay, well, here's a tool. Here's a resource. So that you, you can find them and so hoping to democratize access through that. 

[00:18:58] Caroline: I love the [00:19:00] resources for both the C suite as well as the entry level because the conversations are happening at all levels. It's so important. What would [00:19:10] your advice be for young artists?

[00:19:11] Michelle: Oh my gosh, certainly, I mean already if you're here participating or listening to programs like this. [00:19:20] You're already ahead because it's really about knowledge, building that community. It's such a relational business, more so than almost any other [00:19:30] business. I have noticed, I used to be in law before this, and just like seeing all my other friends in different industries.

[00:19:35] Michelle: More so than most, it is who you know in this industry, and [00:19:40] also who knows you. And so that's, that's the thing, like get involved and join things. But even if you're not a joiner, that's okay too, because there's a lot, [00:19:50] lots of ways to get plugged in and to learn. Yeah. Really, it's, that's how a lot of people in this industry get their jobs, it's because somebody knew them, or somebody vouched for them.[00:20:00] 

[00:20:00] Grant: Just to piggyback on Caroline's question, is, is there advice that you would offer to a young artist who is from a marginalized group, or [00:20:10] who is sort of navigating Things that might be being asked of them that don't necessarily, that feel like it's a conflict for their identity. I think students, and it's naive of me [00:20:20] to say students because I think even as grown ups sometimes we operate from a place of scarcity.

[00:20:25] Grant: You know, what, what do you say to the students who are, who are from smaller, [00:20:30] smaller identity groups where the stories might be smaller and the opportunities even feel smaller or less representation? Do you have words of wisdom to those people who are trying to find [00:20:40] their space and their voice? 

[00:20:41] Michelle: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:20:42] Michelle: I mean, really, first of all, congratulations to you for even showing up. That's really huge [00:20:50] and building that community. Again, I think even when, when your smaller community becomes even more important, I think that's How a lot of these cultural enclaves, [00:21:00] even throughout our country, got started. People just banded together to uplift each other.

[00:21:04] Michelle: And that's a place that I hope CAPE is, is also a place for people to come [00:21:10] together and meet each other and work together, hopefully. And I would say don't compromise. If [00:21:20] you know who you are, you have an important story to tell. And don't give up because we're all going through this together. [00:21:30] Sometimes the opportunities are more abundant than others.

[00:21:33] Michelle: Like we've been talking about this during this program, but come again and. Don't give up. 

[00:21:39] Grant: No is the whole [00:21:40] sentence, right? That's right. 

[00:21:42] Michelle: No is a complete sentence. 

[00:21:44] Grant: We're mindful of your time and we're grateful. So one of my favorite questions to ask every [00:21:50] guest, what's a question that no one's ever asked you?

[00:21:53] Grant: Something in the interviews and these conversations and Q and A's that you wish somebody would ask [00:22:00] you? 

[00:22:00] Michelle: Wow. I think I've gotten asked a lot of different questions over the 10 years, honestly. I mean, for me, what? What I actually love is talking [00:22:10] to two students and actually hearing from them. So I wish there was a way I could turn this camera around and ask them like what is on their minds [00:22:20] because I mean even talking about what does the future look like, they are the future, right?

[00:22:24] Michelle: Like how are they consuming contents? What stories did they want to hear? What stories [00:22:30] do they get super annoyed at? Like not this story again. Like that is something. I would love to actually be able to sit in a [00:22:40] room with, with All the people who are watching and hear and learn. 

[00:22:45] Grant: Caroline, do you want to move to the lightning round?

[00:22:47] Caroline: Please! Alright, so this is the fun round. [00:22:50] The questions are done. These are the fun questions. Michelle, if you could live in a sitcom or a TV show, Which one 

[00:22:58] Michelle: would it be? Well, I just [00:23:00] went back and watched all the episodes of Abbott Elementary, so that's very fresh on my mind. I think maybe that's [00:23:10] just my answer for today.

[00:23:11] Grant: If you could compete in the Olympics, what sport would you compete in? Why? 

[00:23:16] Michelle: Maybe curling, because I'm so fascinated by 

[00:23:19] Caroline: it. [00:23:20] I love that. Okay. Michelle, what's the first music you listened to? you ever bought or the first concert that you 

[00:23:28] Michelle: ever went to? Oh my gosh. [00:23:30] Well, so now you're going to age me. So I don't know if I can answer this question.

[00:23:34] Michelle: Although I am a recent late convert to BTS. Like [00:23:40] I was not really following the craze. And then one of our fellows had box tickets that she generously donated to the Cape [00:23:50] team last year. So we were able to see their show in Vegas and it was incredible. And just the energy in that stadium was, I mean, that in itself [00:24:00] is something to, to witness is all of their fans and the, the power of the army.

[00:24:05] Michelle: Yes. So palpable. Grant, 

[00:24:07] Caroline: do you have one more? 

[00:24:08] Grant: Sure. What's [00:24:10] a favorite family tradition or chosen family tradition among your friends that you love and why? 

[00:24:17] Michelle: Something that we do. At Christmas, my [00:24:20] family, we all draw names and then whoever's name we get, that's who's stocking we fill. So it's like kind of a modified Secret Santa [00:24:30] type of tradition.

[00:24:31] Michelle: And then before it would always fall on my mom or my sister to fill everyone's stocking. And so this was like a way of bringing everyone [00:24:40] in to equalize everything. I love that. 

[00:24:43] Grant: Michelle, thank you so much for joining us today and for your, the work that you do. 

[00:24:48] Michelle: No, I so [00:24:50] appreciate you including us. This is really exciting.

[00:24:52] Michelle: And I was reading through the description of what this project is, and I'm so glad that it exists out there. And our [00:25:00] website is www. keepusa. org and you can follow us on Instagram and Access. at Cape USA, and please keep [00:25:10] in touch. 

[00:25:10] Caroline: Love this so much. Thank you, Michelle. 

[00:25:12] Grant: Such a great conversation. Michelle shared so much valuable insight.

[00:25:16] Grant: It really reminded me how easy it is to get stuck in our own [00:25:20] silos. The challenges facing the entertainment industry, especially the impacts of industry contraction and layoffs, affects everyone. But they hit underrepresented groups the hardest [00:25:30] when it comes to opportunities. Hearing how CAPE is stepping up to support both high level executives and entry level professionals is awesome.

[00:25:37] Grant: They're ensuring that diverse voices continue to [00:25:40] find opportunities, even in a shrinking industry. 

[00:25:42] Caroline: Michelle is definitely a woman who wears the crown and the cape, pun intended, and has greatly influenced how [00:25:50] Asian stories in our industry are written and produced, as well as contributed to our visibility both on screen and behind the scenes.

[00:25:57] Caroline: I loved when she said the fear of [00:26:00] failure stifles creativity. Taking Asian American native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander community like so many other members of the global majority There's this [00:26:10] unspoken pressure to get it right the first time from the entertainment industry. You don't make profit You won't get another chance to succeed.

[00:26:16] Caroline: But the truth is everyone needs space to fail We [00:26:20] can't thrive in a world where the global majority is held to an impossible standard of perfection Without the grace to fail in creative pursuits Michelle really fired me [00:26:30] up, and I hope she did the same for our listeners. It's time we push for a cultural shift where failure is recognized as part of the creative process.

[00:26:39] Caroline: Just [00:26:40] imagine the innovation and diversity and storytelling that would flourish. 

[00:26:43] Grant: You can follow Michelle on Instagram at M I C H S U G I and Cape at [00:26:50] CapeUSA. And 

[00:26:51] Caroline: if you're interested in learning more about Cape and how you can help with their mission, you can check out their website at CapeUSA. org. The link is [00:27:00] in the show notes.

[00:27:02] Grant: If these conversations resonate with you, follow on SANDS Talks or wherever you get your podcast. Visit our website at inthepodlight. com. [00:27:10] Until next time, step into your light. Since 

[00:27:12] Caroline: 1906, Pace University has been transforming the lives of its students with bachelor, master, and doctoral degree programs with campuses in [00:27:20] New York City and Westchester County.

[00:27:21] Caroline: For more information, visit pace. edu. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed by the guests, hosts, and producers of this podcast do not necessarily [00:27:30] reflect those of Pace University.