In the Podlight: Kim Williams - The Power of Elevating Stories

Summary: In this episode of In the Podlight, casting executive and producer Kim Williams shares her journey in the entertainment industry, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, representation, and storytelling. She discusses her unique approach to casting, the significance of collaboration, and the challenges faced in advocating for diversity. Kim also reflects on her career experiences, the role of mentorship, and her aspirations for the future, all while encouraging creatives to embrace opportunities and stay true to themselves.

Takeaways

• Kim Williams emphasizes the importance of authentic storytelling.
• She believes in saying yes to opportunities to build a career.
• Navigating personalities in collaboration is crucial for success.
• Understanding one's identity helps in making informed decisions.
• Casting is about bringing characters to life, not just matching actors to roles.
• Diversity and representation are central to her casting philosophy.
• Kim advocates for authenticity in casting decisions.
• She finds talent in various aspects of her life, not just auditions.
• The casting director's role is vital in shaping narratives.
• Mentorship and legacy are important to her as she guides others.

Chapters
00:00 - Introduction to Kim Williams and Her Journey
03:06 - The Role of a Casting Director
05:51 - Navigating Opportunities and Scarcity Mindset
09:00 - Instincts in Project Selection
11:51 - Collaboration and Navigating Personalities
15:06 - The Impact of Storytelling on Audiences
17:53 - Authenticity and Representation in Casting
21:06 - Finding Talent and the 'It' Factor
23:53 - The Importance of Casting in Film
27:08 - Mentorship and Legacy in the Industry
30:03 - Challenges and Overcoming Obstacles
32:48 - Future Goals and Aspirations
36:03 - Lightning Round and Personal Insights 

Connect with Kim on Instagram
Connect with Caroline on Instagram
Connect with Grant on Instagram
Connect with In The Podlight on the Website  

The Team:
Caroline Liem – Producer & Host
Grant Kretchick – Producer & Host
Cris Graves  - Producer & Editor
David Margolin Lawson  - Composer
Emily Yaneth Perez – Administration
The Lee Agency - Press Agent
Brandon Mills - Cover Art Photo Credit  

In the Podlight is produced in collaboration with Pace University – Sands
The thoughts, opinions, and views expressed by the guests, hosts, and producers of this podcasts do not necessarily reflect those of Pace University.

Since 1906, Pace University has been transforming the lives of its diverse students—academically, professionally, and socioeconomically. With campuses in New York City and Westchester County, New York, Pace offers bachelor, master, and doctoral degree programs to 13,600 students in its College of Health Professions, Dyson College of Arts and Sciences, Elisabeth Haub School of Law, Lubin School of Business, School of Education, Seidenberg School of Computer Science and Information Systems and, most recently, the Sands College of Performing Arts.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Grant: In the Podlight is hosted on SANDS Talks, the official podcast platform of the SANDS College of Performing Arts at Pace University. 

[00:00:07] Caroline: Hi, I'm Caroline 

[00:00:08] Grant: and I'm Grant. 

[00:00:09] Caroline: [00:00:10] Welcome to In the Podlight, where we spotlight creatives from different identities and experiences. 

[00:00:15] Grant: Join us as we illuminate how they blaze a path forward through the challenges and [00:00:20] opportunities of a post pandemic entertainment industry.

[00:00:22] Caroline: On today's episode, we're delighted to sit down with a talented friend and colleague. who is a casting executive and producer, [00:00:30] Kim Williams. Kim is known for her deep commitment to authentic storytelling and her tireless work for better representation in the entertainment industry. With a background [00:00:40] that blends sociology and the arts, she has a unique approach to casting that prioritizes genuine portrayals of diverse characters.[00:00:50] 

[00:00:50] Grant: Kim is such a force when it comes to casting, and the importance she places on authenticity and storytelling. We chat about how Kim insists that actors truly embody the roles they take on, [00:01:00] regardless of their background, and how important it is to make sure that the stories we see on screen reflect the world as it is, rich with diversity and full of depth.

[00:01:09] Grant: Her commitment [00:01:10] to this makes her work stand out in such a meaningful way. 

[00:01:13] Caroline: Let's shed some light. Kim! 

[00:01:15] Grant: Hi Kim, welcome. Thanks 

[00:01:17] Caroline: So great to see you and to be able to talk with you [00:01:20] today. 

[00:01:20] Kim: Thank you. Hi, Caroline. Hi, Grant. I'm so happy to be here with you guys today. This is very exciting. 

[00:01:26] Caroline: Well, we have a beautiful history together in [00:01:30] casting and that's where I want to begin.

[00:01:31] Caroline: And then we're going to just. It's gonna, it's gonna bloom from there. I would love to hear a little bit about, you know, this beautiful dream that you've taken [00:01:40] as a casting director independently, as an executive, you've worked at the studio, worked with networks, and you're a producer. How do you define all of those different hats for our [00:01:50] listeners?

[00:01:50] Caroline: You know, the differences in responsibility and just, The joy and maybe a little bit of the challenges for each. 

[00:01:57] Kim: Yeah, it's interesting. I [00:02:00] don't look at it for me as like a path or a journey. It's just kind of like what I do day to day. And for me, it is all about [00:02:10] the magic of creating these beautiful stories and finding the human beings who can inhabit These [00:02:20] stories and elevate them and bring them to life.

[00:02:23] Kim: That's what I love to do. And that is really what I've done in all of those careers that you just [00:02:30] mentioned, what I do now, as I've added producing to my roster, you know, of things that I do, that's what wakes me up and gets me excited every [00:02:40] morning. 

[00:02:40] Caroline: Wonderful. How did you get into casting? 

[00:02:42] Kim: So when I was in school, I found an internship in casting.

[00:02:47] Kim: I knew I wanted to do something in entertainment. [00:02:50] I originally went to college thinking I was going to be a newscaster and quickly was dissuaded from that. And I found this internship in casting and I thought, well, whatever I ended up doing in the [00:03:00] business. I'm sure I'll need to know how this works. And I just love the energy because that was during the time where people would mail in pictures and resumes, agents would come to the office and [00:03:10] pitch their clients with their headshots and resumes.

[00:03:13] Kim: And I just love the energy and the crackliness of it and everything kind of happening, phones ringing off the hook. So I [00:03:20] jumped in and literally within my first week, and I would even say the first day I got bit by the casting bug and have never looked back. 

[00:03:28] Caroline: That's amazing. When we were [00:03:30] doing a little of our research, we found that you had a sociology degree.

[00:03:34] Caroline: Is this true? 

[00:03:35] Kim: That is true. 

[00:03:36] Caroline: Yeah. I'm so curious how you, how you [00:03:40] may draw on that degree in casting and just in life. 

[00:03:44] Kim: So, you know, it's really so interesting. So my reason for having a sociology degree or [00:03:50] deciding to pursue sociology is because my dad was like, I'm not paying for you to go to school to study film and television, not happening.

[00:03:58] Kim: You have two options. You can go to law school, [00:04:00] medical school. Like though, those are the things you can do. I was like, curses. All right. What can I do? And I found sociology because there were a lot of elective classes that [00:04:10] I could take. So I could take film and television classes. And there were some film and media kind of studies classes within sociology as well.

[00:04:18] Kim: And so I was able to [00:04:20] achieve my goal because I told my dad, I can go to medical school with a sociology degree or law school with a sociology degree. So that seemed to settle him [00:04:30] down. And Well, I was able to get what I wanted. Um, and you know, once I finished school, um, I stayed in entertainment and my dad would periodically say, you know, [00:04:40] when are you studying for, you know, the MCAT, the LCAT, like what's happening.

[00:04:44] Kim: But it was great because the very first time he saw my name on screen as a casting assistant, I never, [00:04:50] after that heard anything about med school or law school. 

[00:04:53] Caroline: Yes. Yeah, I love that support that you get from the family once they see that you [00:05:00] actually can Go forward in in this pursuit 

[00:05:04] Kim: Absolutely. And then the other thing that I found is once I sort of was in the business [00:05:10] and working Is that so much of the things that we studied and I learned about in sociology?

[00:05:16] Kim: applied in so many ways. Um, [00:05:20] you know, the business understanding what makes groups tick social networks like all of those things are so connected and interrelated. And so again, [00:05:30] I feel like it was the universe sort of guiding me to the right place at the right time to do the right things. You know, 

[00:05:37] Grant: Kim, you've you've had a sort of dynamic [00:05:40] electric career and in it, you've sort of become a multi hyphenate casting director, executive producer.

[00:05:46] Grant: And of course, those are things that where your career takes you, but for [00:05:50] those who start out or midway in their artistic career, starting out can feel like really scary and like, you have to say yes to everything because you have this perception of [00:06:00] scarcity of opportunity, especially now in this post pandemic post strike, I think there is this.

[00:06:05] Grant: Palpable concern or fear. Have you had to navigate that [00:06:10] coming up? The sense of, I have to say yes. And has that worked out for you? Or has that been like, I should have never said yes to this. Or even now, does it feel like opportunity is [00:06:20] scarce? 

[00:06:20] Kim: It's funny. I have never operated from a scarcity mindset ever.

[00:06:24] Kim: And I credit my parents for giving me that sort of foundation, a way to look at life [00:06:30] and the world as a whole. Always opportunity. So when I was younger, my thing was say yes to everything. You can give up the stuff that you [00:06:40] ultimately decide is not right for you or not good for you or not the right fit.

[00:06:43] Kim: But yes, is a way to sort of learn and discover. And meet and connect [00:06:50] and find the things that you find that you like. And you really want to sort of lean into when I was doing my internship. One of the things that I [00:07:00] really loved about being in that place and in that space was because there was so much information coming in, I felt like that was.

[00:07:09] Kim: [00:07:10] All of the, yes, like bring all the actors in, open all the pictures, talk to all the agents, go to all the shows, do all the, like all of it. And it all helped build the [00:07:20] foundation for my career moving forward. I'm one of those people, the work is what fuels me and drives me and sustains me and [00:07:30] keeps me able to continue to work is by working.

[00:07:34] Kim: And so that's, I always lean into yes. 

[00:07:37] Grant: Work but gets work. I think that's [00:07:40] beautiful. And I sort of think that's how I create the opportunity and then you can turn it down. But I just worry sometimes that people are compromising themselves in some way because they feel like they can't quite [00:07:50] say no, cause they're not at that position in their career.

[00:07:52] Kim: Yeah. I love that you said that about compromising yourself, because I think, you know, one of the things I think you have to [00:08:00] do particularly in this is really know who you are. Know what you stand for and know what you won't stand for. [00:08:10] So that as you go into this world where you're going to meet people from all spectrums, from, you know, the extreme good level to the extreme bad [00:08:20] level, and you have to be able to sort of navigate.

[00:08:23] Kim: Those waters and make decisions in the moment. And if you know who you [00:08:30] are and can stand firm in that, that'll help you as you go along. I was very fortunate. I don't remember really saying no, because I just loved [00:08:40] working and loved doing all the things that I love to do. But I remember going to parties.

[00:08:45] Kim: Sometimes I'm walking in and going, Oh, this is not what I thought it was going to [00:08:50] be. This is not my scene. Thank you. And goodbye. And that's okay. Like that's fine. And it worked out because I figured out kind of early on who, who I was. [00:09:00] I think that's really important is really to know yourself. Find yourself, define yourself for yourself on your own terms, and don't let others [00:09:10] do that for you.

[00:09:11] Grant: So Kim, I love Say Yes to Work, but, you know, in that, there must be projects that you've had to pass on. What's something that you say, mm mm, [00:09:20] no? 

[00:09:20] Kim: There are a couple of things that will make me pass. One is if the script is just not good, and I don't see any way to sort of save it [00:09:30] either through rewrites with the Creative team or bringing a cast to it that will help somehow elevate it.

[00:09:38] Kim: Or finding [00:09:40] people that I just don't gel with. You're sometimes in the battlefield when you're working on a project and you want to just be there with people who are of like mind and like [00:09:50] spirit, who are all moving in the same direction, same goal. And when I don't find that, that's a time when I would say no to a project as well.

[00:09:58] Caroline: I am jumping with joy [00:10:00] because. You've just led us into our next questions about instincts. So with regards to choosing projects, Kim, using your instincts in [00:10:10] storytelling, how do you choose projects that you work on now as a producer and executive versus when you were more of an independent [00:10:20] cast director in the earlier days?

[00:10:22] Caroline: Is there a difference? in what you're looking for and what you say yes to. 

[00:10:25] Kim: Yes, there is, because now I am helping [00:10:30] to drive the narrative and drive even who the characters are, where they come from, how their story is told. And as [00:10:40] you probably remember, Caroline, it's such an important thing for me to be able to tell the story.

[00:10:46] Kim: Amazing, beautiful stories, [00:10:50] particularly a people of color from just a very broad lens that we don't typically see [00:11:00] traditionally in Hollywood. And so that's what I look for is great characters, interesting worlds, and just being taken on a [00:11:10] journey of some sort. 

[00:11:11] Grant: Kim, you know, collaboration is so beautiful, but one of the challenges with collaboration are the other people, right?

[00:11:18] Grant: So we know that there's big [00:11:20] personalities in the room. We know that there's big creative personalities in the room. How do you navigate those personalities? How do you, how does your creative process intersect [00:11:30] with the multiple other creatives? 

[00:11:32] Kim: I try to figure out what makes people tick and what's the thing that's [00:11:40] their jam and try to lean into that as we work through a project.

[00:11:46] Kim: Because sometimes I find that It's not about the [00:11:50] project. It's about sometimes someone's ego, sometimes someone's desire to be something that they're actually not. And to [00:12:00] try to stroke those things that will get them on board and moving in the way that we need them to move. [00:12:10] Fortunately for me, I have been blessed to work with just a wonderful, wonderful Team of people on most of the projects that I've worked with, but I do find [00:12:20] sometimes I think people underestimate me, which is interesting and don't.

[00:12:26] Kim: Don't see me or know me for everything [00:12:30] that I'm capable of and what I bring to the table, which is really broad and really vast. And I think sometimes that intimidates people. And so [00:12:40] they want to one up me or show me up. And again, I'm not in it for the competition. I'm in it for us to make the best possible project we Can with the best [00:12:50] talent and creatives that we can possibly make that sometimes is also challenging.

[00:12:54] Kim: And it's funny cause I always think of my grandmothers where she'll say, she used to say this thing about [00:13:00] showboating where she would say it's not necessary to showboat if you know what you're doing and you have the work behind you to support yourself. 

[00:13:08] Caroline: So beautiful. So [00:13:10] Kim, you speak about looking. To help the audience find the best version of themselves.

[00:13:16] Caroline: I think it's a beautiful statement that among [00:13:20] our casting peers we may talk about, but many listening in may not have considered that as part of a casting [00:13:30] perspective. And so, I wonder if you could speak to why this is meaningful to you, what that means for you. 

[00:13:37] Kim: Part of the work that we do [00:13:40] in filmmaking is educating our audiences, teaching our audiences about people, worlds, places that they're not familiar [00:13:50] with, that they know nothing about but have an interest in or want to go on this journey with this character that they may not Necessarily have [00:14:00] something in common with and so in that in that regard.

[00:14:04] Kim: I want to Be able to help the audience even elevate [00:14:10] how they think about characters places time people all of those things When they're watching something that i'm a part of [00:14:20] I want them to have a real visceral experience hopefully hopefully To gain some sort of knowledge, gain some sort of [00:14:30] insight, to be inspired, triggered, curiosity piqued about something, because I think that is, for me, what [00:14:40] storytelling is all about.

[00:14:41] Kim: It is learning about something that you don't know about, or going on a journey that you haven't gone on before. 

[00:14:48] Grant: Is there something in particular [00:14:50] that inspires you in your process? 

[00:14:52] Kim: I love people. I love life. I love traveling. I love [00:15:00] color. I love art. I love music. I love purple. I love kids. I love Disneyland.

[00:15:06] Kim: I love, there's so many things that I love. [00:15:10] And so for me, it's about leaning into those things that really just bring me joy. And happiness and [00:15:20] even joy and happiness isn't always a pretty journey to that. And I'm okay with that. And I'm fine showing that, but I think for me, that is [00:15:30] what at the core of it inspires me, just my zest for life and enjoying it as I go.

[00:15:37] Kim: So great. 

[00:15:38] Caroline: I love that. Kim. [00:15:40] For the actors, the writers, the directors, producers, what would you like them to know about how a casting director collaborates and uplifts what they [00:15:50] do? 

[00:15:50] Kim: I would say my job as a casting director is to bring you the best possible options to bring those [00:16:00] black and white words Into human form.

[00:16:04] Kim: That is my goal and my objective. So I work [00:16:10] tirelessly to unearth the people that can deliver that. And depending on the project you're working on, there are also marketing and money [00:16:20] requirements. So taking all of those things into account as well. And again, Working to assemble and bring forward the [00:16:30] best possible talent that I can.

[00:16:32] Kim: And sometimes that involves me bringing additional information to the [00:16:40] forefront or. Pushing you to ask a specific direction or ask for something if you're not seeing it specifically so that the actor [00:16:50] knows what it is that you're wanting or looking if we're in the audition process from the actor side of things, my ask is that you are [00:17:00] ready and by ready, I mean you've prepared your material.

[00:17:05] Kim: You've done your homework on the people who are going to be [00:17:10] working with you and collaborating with you and that when you do your audition, be it in person or on self tape, you are bringing the [00:17:20] best results. Possible versions of yourself and again, living in the moment and not worrying about things that are beyond your [00:17:30] control as an actor, your job is to act and create character that we want to lean into and that is memorable and is [00:17:40] interesting and unexpected.

[00:17:42] Kim: And so it's about making choices. Knowing who you are and coming to the audition with all of those [00:17:50] things ready to unfold. And then if you're in an audition situation and you're asked to do something differently or change, [00:18:00] having the skills, the tools, the training, to then lean into that and be able to change up and turn.[00:18:10] 

[00:18:10] Grant: So much has changed a lot recently, so much has changed over time. So many missed opportunities to have actors play [00:18:20] characters authentically. And we're in a really important conversation about how you get somebody who identifies in a way that the character identifies to create. opportunities for [00:18:30] those people.

[00:18:30] Grant: So we don't see heterosexual men playing transitioning women. Have you found that your own advocacy has changed or [00:18:40] evolved? If you think back in your career, have you made those mistakes? And also, have you advocated successfully? And what have been your biggest wins? How are you learning in this [00:18:50] fluid process of evolution?

[00:18:51] Kim: Because I am a woman of color, I have always been an advocate for Authenticity [00:19:00] as best we can. And that is how I've always operated the way that I've cast projects over the entirety of my career. And [00:19:10] again, not because it's the thing to do at the moment or the banner we're all standing under at this moment, but it's because I truly believe that [00:19:20] everybody in the world.

[00:19:22] Kim: Is everything at all times. And so for me, it's not about creating like a. Fake [00:19:30] authenticity, if that makes sense. I want the stories and the projects that I work on and cast to truly be reflective of [00:19:40] the world that we live in and the world that we are creating within this story. One thing I can remember is.

[00:19:48] Kim: I was working on a film with [00:19:50] Tyler Perry, and I was pushing for us to open up and consider having a Latina actress be Angela Bassett's best friend in the film. [00:20:00] And the team liked the idea, and I brought Sofia Vergara. I'm such a huge fan of hers. I've been for, for many years. This film was before Modern Family.

[00:20:08] Kim: And we had her [00:20:10] come to the table read. And she was fantastic. And it's funny because I remember Tyler saying to me, do you think people will have a problem that she has an [00:20:20] accent? And I was like, but she has an accent. So who cares? What difference does that make? And he was like, you know what? You're right.

[00:20:27] Kim: And we cast her in one of the leads in the [00:20:30] film, which went on to do very, very well. She broke out very shortly after that. But for me, that's like an example of pushing back on a notion that [00:20:40] something can't happen because people quote unquote, people won't be accepting of that, but again, those people exist in [00:20:50] the world.

[00:20:50] Kim: How are we not accept like that? Doesn't make sense to me. They exist here. Like, what are you talking about? 

[00:20:57] Grant: Yeah, it's fascinating. Fascinating. What [00:21:00] thought goes into. How the products received. Yeah. And that sometimes that leapfrogs 

[00:21:05] Kim: correct. 

[00:21:06] Grant: Well, where are we in this process and what does this [00:21:10] mean?

[00:21:10] Kim: Correct. And similar to, you know, how people have talked about how the casting of Morgan Freeman or Blair Underwood or something in the role [00:21:20] of the president helped Barack Obama win the white house. And there may be something to that because if we're putting that out in the universe. That [00:21:30] that is a thing that that is, then it is.

[00:21:33] Kim: So if it exists there, art imitating life, imitating art, like let's make it happen. 

[00:21:39] Grant: Normalizing [00:21:40] it. Let's normalize it. Exactly. Getting rid of the sort of. Correct. Barriers. Correct. 

[00:21:45] Caroline: Love it. I love it. So Pace University, Sands College, we're very proud of our [00:21:50] graduates. And how does talent. An actor, first get on your radar to get to your office and finding [00:22:00] that role, and then how in that beautiful mind of yours, you remember them over time to bring them in for other things.

[00:22:07] Caroline: What does that look like for you 

[00:22:09] Kim: to answer the [00:22:10] first part of the question to get on my radar? Like there are so many ways I watch shows I go to theater Not only big theater [00:22:20] small teeny independent theater one woman shows I go to film festivals watch shorts I really sort of cover the gamut in [00:22:30] terms of seeking out talent And so I recommend say yes Find opportunities, do student films, do short [00:22:40] films, find little theater productions to do, because those are all places that I go when I'm wanting to see something.

[00:22:48] Kim: And then what happens is [00:22:50] people will start to populate in my head and go into my casting file that exists in my head. And then as I'm reading scripts, what usually happens is [00:23:00] voices and faces start to populate as I Read and I go, Oh my gosh, what about that woman? I saw in that one woman show at the Sweetwater theater [00:23:10] two years ago.

[00:23:11] Kim: Oh my gosh. I met this so interesting woman at this restaurant three years ago. She'd be great for this role. When I tell you I cast from. [00:23:20] Every aspect of my life, I literally mean every aspect of my life. I've cast people from a restaurant, walking down the street. It just really, [00:23:30] again, from big movies, small movies, theater productions.

[00:23:33] Kim: It comes from anywhere and everywhere. 

[00:23:36] Grant: Kim, I love that. And so much is like, I got to find the [00:23:40] right person for this role. Right. And then there's the sort of romanticized, but I believe there's truth in it. Ideas that that person has. [00:23:50] That person has quoi. How do you sort of identify or what do you think it is?

[00:23:55] Grant: Can you even put words to it or your thumb on it? That sort of hidden [00:24:00] gem that you know, you're going to break them out or they're going to be breakouts. 

[00:24:04] Kim: Wow. I'm trying to think how I put it into words. It's [00:24:10] hard. There's just something, and I will say it is something in the eyes. In the voice, [00:24:20] in the delivery, that is so irresistible, where you just can't not watch this [00:24:30] person.

[00:24:30] Kim: So when we brought Ashley Romans in for Genius, she originally came in for the role of Betty Shabazz. And she wasn't [00:24:40] quite right for it. For Betty, but we loved her so much. Like we just could not stop talking about her thinking about [00:24:50] her rewatching her audition. And then as we moved through the process and we came to the role of Ella Malcolm's older [00:25:00] sister, I was like, Oh my gosh, you guys.

[00:25:03] Kim: Ashley Romans is perfect for this and we pull up the picture of his actual sister and we put it next to at and [00:25:10] they looked like it was like, Oh my, this was meant to be. And so that is oftentimes how it happens. And so what I like to say to actors [00:25:20] all the time is. When you come into audition, when you do a self tape, deliver the best possible version of that character [00:25:30] and that audition that you can, because you're not only auditioning for this specific role, there's so many things beyond your control that determine whether or not [00:25:40] you get this role or not get this role.

[00:25:41] Kim: Nothing having to do with you unless you don't do a good audition. That said, but yeah, We, I will remember you and [00:25:50] bring you back and you can talk to actors that I've known for years and they will tell you, Oh my gosh, I saw Kim, you know, five years ago for something. And then she [00:26:00] brought me in for like the life changing role that I got that changed the trajectory of my career.

[00:26:06] Kim: And so it is a matter of living in the [00:26:10] moment and having the tools. So that means it. Studying, taking classes, watching shows, going to theater, being in theater, always [00:26:20] working the muscle, watching what is happening in the world, in the television space, in the movie space, what are actors doing, how are they, who are they, what [00:26:30] are they, why are they, all of those things, and bringing that together.

[00:26:34] Kim: When you're creating your characters and making choices that are memorable [00:26:40] I often say so many times when I see auditions People play it safe and they're going right down the middle and making like the expected choices [00:26:50] Those are fine. There is nothing wrong with that a lot of people Work and get jobs that way but for me That's not the thing to me that's going to [00:27:00] elevate you to the place of oh my gosh You I gotta find something for them, or I have to do whatever I can to make sure they get this role.

[00:27:08] Kim: I have another [00:27:10] story from back in the day when I was casting the Bernie Mac pilot, and we were looking for Bernie Mac's wife. And by the time we got to the network test, we were [00:27:20] down to two choices. A really well known, famous, famous actress, talented, funny, like the whole shebang. [00:27:30] And then we had an unknown.

[00:27:32] Kim: But again, she had the goods. She had the training. She had the comedy she brought. That's why she was at the place where she [00:27:40] was. So we're outside the room before the ladies go in for the network reading. And I see her and she is so nervous, like almost [00:27:50] losing her mind because she's sitting here opposite this really famous actress.

[00:27:55] Kim: And I think that experience was hitting her [00:28:00] confidence of like, Oh my God, I'm not going to get this. So I asked her to follow me to the bathroom. We went to the bathroom and I said, look, here's the thing. I know you're probably [00:28:10] intimidated at this moment, but you got to let that go. The reason you're here sitting next to this person that for whatever reason is intimidating you is because you're.[00:28:20] 

[00:28:20] Kim: As good as that person is. And so this is your moment to win this role. This is what this is all led to. So figure it out, pull it [00:28:30] together, get it together. And when you get your time in the room, take the room. Okay. Cut to, we bring the famous actress in first and she's great. She [00:28:40] gives a fabulous audition.

[00:28:42] Kim: I mean, it was fantastic. Bernie was in the room. So he was reading opposite. [00:28:50] Fantastic. She leaves the room and everybody's like, well, we think we have the wife. This is fantastic. Let's see the next person. So I come out and I said to her, this is your [00:29:00] moment. Let's do this. We walk in the room. She kills it.

[00:29:04] Kim: She kills it so much. They forgot the famous actress had even been in [00:29:10] the room and she got the job because it's not sometimes about the name or the face. It's about what are you doing? [00:29:20] With this character, with this material, when you are in that moment. And she did it and she killed it and she got it.

[00:29:27] Kim: And end of story. 

[00:29:29] Caroline: It's [00:29:30] bringing tears to my eye. Joyful tears, . 

[00:29:34] Kim: I know, right? 

[00:29:35] Caroline: Oh, so good. So good. All right, let's turn a page. [00:29:40] You know, so much of what a casting director does is under the radar, behind the scenes. One of those glimpses is being recognized by the Motion Picture [00:29:50] Academy and next year having an Academy Award offering for casting.

[00:29:56] Caroline: So do people still wonder about what our contributions are and what we [00:30:00] do? What do you think? 

[00:30:01] Kim: I do still think, generally speaking, there is a question about. Our contributions, I for years [00:30:10] have said, I don't understand why every category under the sun is eligible for an Academy Award and casting is not [00:30:20] when, in fact, if you don't have an amazing cast that is assembled by your casting director, no one else is doing that, none of those other departments [00:30:30] Would even have a category to be in consideration.

[00:30:34] Kim: So I think it's high time and I'm thrilled that this moment is finally [00:30:40] happening. It's great. 

[00:30:41] Grant: I love that. And the visibility for you as a, as an industry, as a really significant role is important. Other visibility [00:30:50] feels like we're making lots of progress and some of it was maybe performative. And I've heard people say, well, the pendulum has swung and I've hearing people say, well, the pendulum is swinging back.

[00:30:58] Grant: I was. [00:31:00] Sometimes think of like it more as a balancing scale in terms of representation of people of color on screen. Sure, we see that. But what about the [00:31:10] inclusivity or the representation behind the scenes off screen? Are we closer? Is it changing? Is there visibility from all the way from the executive down?

[00:31:19] Grant: Or I mean, [00:31:20] there's always work to do. But do you think this work has been impactful and meaningful in the last couple of years? 

[00:31:25] Kim: Wow, it's so interesting you bringing this up because I read this really [00:31:30] fascinating article in the New York Times last night that was speaking to this in just a broader scale across the country.

[00:31:36] Kim: As it relates to our industry, what I will say is from [00:31:40] where I sit, We have a long, long, long way to go. And I think it's not just behind the scenes. I think [00:31:50] in front of the camera, I think there's been a bit of smoke and mirrors happening because I really think when you strip it down, I feel like there's been a big [00:32:00] step back as I watch sort of shows that are on the air and things like that, it's really, Troubling to me.

[00:32:07] Kim: And then when I look at [00:32:10] the what's happened as a result of all of the constriction that's going on in the industry, many of the people who have faced layoffs have [00:32:20] been those people of color, those underrepresented groups. That had seen like a little bit of light sort of [00:32:30] coming their way and that has shifted Dramatically, and so I would say yeah, there's a lot a lot of work 

[00:32:39] Grant: What happened to [00:32:40] all those chief diversity officers that were hired?

[00:32:42] Kim: Yeah all All gone along with their staffs and their initiatives and all of those things to [00:32:50] really troubling time that I see ahead. And, you know, we weren't in a great place before this. And one of the reasons that it was really [00:33:00] important for me to step into a more producorial role is so that I had more agency over.

[00:33:06] Kim: The type of stories that are told, how they're told, how [00:33:10] characters are presented, because in my executive time, what I saw was. Interesting projects coming through that then would get [00:33:20] noted down for lack of a better word so that they would be palatable to the C suite, which is primarily [00:33:30] comprised of the traditional people that you see in those types of jobs.

[00:33:35] Kim: That's problematic when the people with green light power all [00:33:40] have a similar POV of the world. That's troubling. And so I think we have to work to do better and [00:33:50] yeah, just do better. We got to do better. 

[00:33:52] Caroline: Kim, you've had so many titans in the industry mentor you. What's the legacy that you want to leave for [00:34:00] those that you are now mentoring?

[00:34:01] Kim: I love seeing the hard work. The perseverance, the dedication of [00:34:10] people that I have worked with and mentored over the years, and I look forward to seeing the projects and changes [00:34:20] and inspiration that they will continue to bring to our industry and our world. 

[00:34:27] Grant: I almost hate to ask this because Your [00:34:30] joy and positivity and zest is so infectious, but I actually believe we learn the most from our failures or our challenges.

[00:34:39] Grant: Is there [00:34:40] a hurdle or a challenge or an obstacle that you can think of that you're like, you know, that was my biggest teaching moment? 

[00:34:46] Kim: Part of the thing is, for me, is [00:34:50] because I present in the world as a black woman, for me, that is a huge hurdle and a huge obstacle I have found from [00:35:00] early in my life. And so I think, for me, the other stuff isn't, To me as tough as that, interestingly enough, I've had [00:35:10] meetings where I've been on the phone with producers or executives having great conversations about projects, and then we'd meet in person and I see the look in their face when they [00:35:20] don on them, that I'm a.

[00:35:22] Kim: Well, I'm a woman and then the job would magically disappear or not happen or whatever the thing was. But again, I [00:35:30] think to me, that's not really a challenge or an obstacle because that's other people's problem. That's not mine. And again, I am about [00:35:40] living in the light and in happiness and enjoy. And so I just.

[00:35:45] Kim: Kind of keep it moving to the net, like on to the next. 

[00:35:48] Caroline: This has been great. So Kim, [00:35:50] you've accomplished so much and there's so much more yet to come. What's the goal? What's the thing? Is there an end goal? 

[00:35:59] Kim: No, [00:36:00] there's no end goal, but there are goals which are to produce Some of my passion projects and [00:36:10] get my series on the air and my movies made and to help some of my friends who are coming up and some of the people that I'm mentoring coming up realize [00:36:20] their passions and their dreams.

[00:36:22] Kim: Yes. Yeah, I think those are the goals for me. 

[00:36:26] Caroline: Beautiful. 

[00:36:26] Grant: All right. We have some lightning round questions that Caroline and I [00:36:30] choose from randomly. Um, well, then you want to go, 

[00:36:32] Caroline: what is the first music you bought or the first concert you went to? 

[00:36:38] Kim: So the first [00:36:40] concert I remember going to, I was young, it was at Universal Studios.

[00:36:47] Kim: It was very white and my [00:36:50] mom took us. Cause she loved Barry White, so she took us with her and I think some cousins to see Barry White and I fell in love with him. 

[00:36:59] Grant: If you [00:37:00] could compete in one Olympic sport, what would it be and why? 

[00:37:05] Kim: I would say tennis, because I love the sport of tennis. [00:37:10] I have played tennis for years, and I have always believed that really, I am one of the Williams sisters.

[00:37:18] Kim: I'm the lost Williams sister. [00:37:20] I would go on to the court and add a triple threat to that double threat that, uh, Exists in that family. 

[00:37:29] Grant: I want to [00:37:30] be one of the lost William sisters. 

[00:37:31] Caroline: I know, right? All right. This is a little up your alley, but let's ask it. If you could live in a sitcom or a TV show, which would it [00:37:40] be?

[00:37:40] Kim: Like, would I be myself or would I be a character? Just so I'm clear. You, 

[00:37:45] Caroline: you have a choice. Yeah. 

[00:37:49] Kim: Okay, [00:37:50] okay. Here's what it would be. I would live in succession. I would be Logan's next wife. [00:38:00] But the one that he actually truly loves. really truly loves, not that he didn't truly love his second wife, but he [00:38:10] really truly loves her and decides that she, he, he's going to leave the company and everything to her to set up and [00:38:20] disperse should something happen to him.

[00:38:22] Kim: And obviously he would survive longer than he did in the show. Blah, blah, blah. Cool. Great answer. 

[00:38:27] Grant: Okay. Last question. What [00:38:30] is a favorite family tradition or A chosen family tradition that you have or love 

[00:38:36] Kim: all of us gathering for one of the [00:38:40] holidays or birthdays and just the entire family, just being together, laughing, dancing, just having a good time.

[00:38:49] Caroline: I 

[00:38:49] Kim: love 

[00:38:49] Caroline: [00:38:50] that so much. 

[00:38:51] Grant: Kim, this has been beautiful. 

[00:38:53] Kim: Thank 

[00:38:53] Caroline: you so 

[00:38:54] Kim: much. You are so welcome and thank you both for having me. This was [00:39:00] really, really fun. A really good time. Thank you. 

[00:39:03] Grant: What a fantastic conversation. I was so impressed by Kim's career journey, especially how she followed her instincts [00:39:10] and decided to say yes to everything and how that openness helped her build a really solid foundation in the industry.

[00:39:16] Grant: And it also It also led her to the all important piece of wisdom, [00:39:20] knowing when to say no, which at times can be more important than saying yes, particularly when a project or a team doesn't align with your values or your creative vision. [00:39:30] That's a great lesson for all creatives to learn from. 

[00:39:32] Caroline: Yes, no is a complete sentence.

[00:39:36] Caroline: I loved diving into Kim's advocacy for diversity and [00:39:40] inclusion. It's been such a powerful driving force behind her work. Kim really views casting as much more than just matching actors to roles. [00:39:50] For her, it's about finding actors who can bring characters to life in a way that elevates the entire cast.

[00:39:57] Caroline: She's passionate about the responsibility casting [00:40:00] directors have to help audiences connect with characters and stories that resonate deeply, elevating the way we see ourselves on screen. That's such a beautiful mission. [00:40:10] 

[00:40:10] Grant: You can follow Kim on Instagram at K W I L L L I. That's three L's. 

[00:40:17] Caroline: And keep an eye out for Kim's new [00:40:20] production company, Purple Origin Universe.

[00:40:22] Caroline: The links are in the show notes. 

[00:40:24] Grant: If these conversations resonate with you, follow on SANDS Talks, or wherever you get your podcasts. Visit our [00:40:30] website at inthepodlight. com. Until next time, step into your light. Since 

[00:40:34] Caroline: 1906, Pace University has been transforming the lives of its students with bachelor, master, and [00:40:40] doctoral degree programs, with campuses in New York City and Westchester County.

[00:40:44] Caroline: For more information, visit www. pace. edu. Pace. edu. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed by the guests, hosts, and [00:40:50] producers of this podcast do not necessarily reflect those of Pace University.