Collectively Speaking Episode 11- Chris Arning

The Season One finale is a gripping podcast exploring the often overlooked subject of semiotics and the built environment. Join Max Farrell and world renowned semiotician Chris Arning, founder of Creative Semiotics, as they discuss how to create meaningful spaces that reflect and enhance communities sense of identity and belonging.

1. Chris shares insights into his academic journey, from studying history and philosophy at University College London to international relations at the University of Warwick.
2. Explore Chris's transition into semiotics, driven by his passion for understanding cultures and decoding the implicit influences that shape human behaviour.
3. Chris breaks down the concept of semiotics, its origins in sign theory, and its modern applications in branding and communication.
4. Discover how semiotics plays a crucial role in branding, helping organizations bridge the gap between their intended messages and their audience's perceptions.
5. Explore the potential of semiotics in urban planning, architecture, and placemaking, with a focus on creating authentic and inclusive spaces.
6. Learn how brand naming contributes to creating a distinct sense of place in urban regeneration projects, fostering a sense of identity and community.
7. Delve into the significance of colour and symbolism in architecture and urban design, and their role in conveying cultural values and identities.
8. Hear about the challenges of balancing authenticity and commercial considerations in development projects, and strategies for fostering genuine community engagement.
9. Explore practical ways for property developers to demonstrate authenticity and genuine commitment to community well-being, including investing in cultural initiatives and avoiding superficial gestures.

Tune in to this latest episode of Collectively Speaking for insightful conversations on creating sustainable and authentic places. Look out for Season Two launching in time for the London Festival of Architecture in June.

Find out more about the LDN Collective at 
https://ldn-collective.com/

Transcript

Max Farrell  0:04  
Welcome, everybody to the latest episode of collectively speaking. Today, I'm really happy to be talking to Chris Arne. He's somebody who I've known for a very long time, I think 30 years. We were at university together and live together during that time. And he's went on to do something that I find absolutely fascinating. And we've been working with each other recently through the LDN collective to try and bring in his expertise into built environment projects. Chris, he does something which, whenever I tell anyone what it is, I normally get quite a blank expression. And then I go on to try and explain it myself. But today, we have him here to do a much better job than I could have explaining what semiotics is all about. And it is definitely something that I think could really add value to architecture, development and regeneration. And we'll come on to that in terms of why I think so. But initially, I just going to ask Chris, just to tell us a bit about yourself and your background and how you got into semiotics in the first place. Yeah,

Chris Arning  1:16  
I mean, my background is, I guess I've always been interested in ideas, but I ideas that have an impact on people. And my background is in social sciences. Fundamentally, I studied history and philosophy at University College London, where we studied together and had a good time, and did some studying as well, which is pretty amazing. And both came out with good degrees. One thing I remember someone telling me when I was doing my degree at UCL was Chris, you know, if you specialised in one of these areas you're looking at because I was jumping around, I was doing mediaeval or early modern Europe, I was doing the history, the United States history of Latin America, if you actually built from year on year into a specialist area, you'll like to get higher marks because you'll have the foundational knowledge. But I was like, No, I'm really interested in learning about the world. And I'd rather like understand more about Latin America or Japan or Africa. And I realise now that was a kind of early inkling of my, you know, tendencies, prediction, whatever you want to call it towards understanding cultures, and getting under the skin of culture and the codes that kind of impact and influence the way we behave is fundamental to semiotics, which I'll, which I'll come on to. But I went on from UCL to go to the University of Warwick or I studied in international relations degree. But again, the focus was not less on sort of diplomatic treaties and war and conflict resolution and more on understanding the international system. And so I learned about like Marxist approaches and critical theory approaches post modernism, post structuralism, and that led me into understanding, there's a whole new way of, there's a whole sort of host of lenses you can apply, which helps you see things differently and see things in a new way that can help people see new angles to a topic. And that led me into into the world of semiotics.

Max Farrell  3:07  
So just for those who don't know, which I think is a lot of people out there. Tell us tell us a bit more about what what exactly is semiotics?

Chris Arning  3:16  
The $6 million question Max. semiotics comes from the Greek word semi meaning sign. So it came from understanding signs. And when it when it was founded, it was actually more about more or less always about symptoms and diagnosing illnesses. And actually, it's interesting, because we've kind of looked round, because semiotics is still about looking at the signs, but it's more about branding. Now, the way I apply it, is understanding the unconscious implicit influences that make us feel more drawn to our brands that make us want to continue to buy that brands, or even in some cases have a tattoo of that brand, somewhere on our body, because we are so passionate about it. And usually in that instance, because the values and the associations that brand has accord with either values we have or values we aspire to. So semiotics, as I apply it is about apply a critical perspective or visual culture. And fundamentally, the value to the client is closing the gap between what they think they're communicating and what they're actually communicating. So to give you an example, I've just done some work for a university in the north of England, and as you know, since the bringing in of tuition fees and the sort of liberalisation if you like, if the higher education sector there's been, you know, increasing competition, as well as increasing competition to attract international students. And with that has come the need for university to sort of put their best foot forward and say why should you come to Keele University rather than, you know, University of Monmouthshire or Bristol rather than Durham. So this was about understanding that when you convey your brand and an email you need to convey more than just one thing. It's not just about this ability and the quality of the qualification that you're going to get the cachet that you're going to get and how it's going to open doors. It's also, will I have a good time here? Will I have a good social life will I belong? Will I be feel like my life is enriched, and then breaking that down into the sorts of colours, typefaces, messages, videos, how you put those together in a way that's going to optimise those messages, that's going to going to have this which is likely to have a propitious or suspicious, profitable effect on their or their, on their readers basically, or prospects.

Max Farrell  5:34  
So that's really interesting, because that's in many ways, what we tried to do with any sort of built environment projects, the thing about the built environment, unlike, say, a brand, which sells products, you know, whether that's fizzy drinks, or trainers or whatever, is the built environment, every project is unique, because it's a particular place. And every place has its own background history, social context, politics that have influenced it over a very long, normally very long period of time, sometimes not a long period of time, although even agricultural land has its own history and physical and social contexts. But that's why I'm really interested in in understanding more from you about how you think the regeneration could be done in a way that can be better embraced by either the existing communities or new communities. Because it's actually thought about these types of things that you're discussing now about how colours naming a signage, symbols and, and so on, how they either consciously or subconsciously, attract you to something, whether that's a place or a brand, and how we can start to incorporate that thinking in in planning and urban design and architecture? Well,

Chris Arning  7:00  
well, that's a very big question. I mean, semiotics can definitely have an influence. I think there are sort of three areas that as we've sort of confabulated about this, this for the last couple of years, I think has got the most potential. I mean, one of them is a very fundamental area and branding, which is the name brand naming. I mean, a brand name is both a promise which brand is a brand is a promise of the sort of experience you're gonna you're likely to have if you subscribe to that brand, if you buy it if you enter into a service agreeing with that brand. And the names of really important, why is brand name important in terms of the built environment? Well, I think it gives a sense of place, I think the first thing is, with all urban regeneration and infrastructure projects, the one thing I think I would wish people thought more about is giving a distinct sense of place to the area they're working on, because there is this concept in that project called the non the non place, but basically, which is by book by Mark or J The anthropologist, which is basically places like airports and shopping centres, where if you if you have a memory from those places, it's probably not likely to be a good one. It's very there are these places that don't have a real sense of distinction, a sense of uniqueness, or idiosyncrasy if you like. And so I think the name can do a really good job in conveying that whether it be alluding to a local hero, something to do with the the kind of unique provenance of an area, maybe the quality of the soil or the light or a landmark. I think places that do that authentically, in a way that makes sense, or get a have an advantage. And they're going to be seen as more attractive as places that are generic in their naming. So Crown Heights, or, I don't know, sort of Belvedere Boulevard or something. I mean, these are sort of names that you, they sort of Scream cliche and platitude and I think things that scream, cliche and platitude are likely to be seen as fake and are somehow hiding things particularly in this world we live in today where everyone has a critical perspective on consumerism, capitalism and various ideological viewpoints, which can be triggered by names that seem insincere or cliched. That's one example.

Max Farrell  9:15  
Excellent. I always think that another another thing that would be worth exploring through that lens that you talk about the semiotic lens is colour because it's something that we used to I've just got back from Barcelona, and we had a tour of La Sagrada Familia, and it was like an explosion of colour, but it was all very measured and considered and, and there's a lot of criticism in recent years of architecture, the blandness, of a lot of architecture and how it's become so generic and there was a sort of architectural commentator that an award ceremony so saying, Every building is, is biscuit coloured, and it became a thing where suddenly everyone realised that there are a lot biscuit coloured buildings being built, and what happened to colour as a form of expression and identity. And I wonder whether you have anything to sort of add to that debate in terms of how we can come up with interesting colour palettes that also respond to a particular place, or community or culture?

Chris Arning  10:22  
Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, it's interesting, I feel like I'm weighing into the debate which in a sense, I'm qualified to talk about colour when it comes to branding, sort of merchandising on shelf and also building long term brand associations. But when it comes to the built environment, there's so many stakeholders involved, I can imagine that sometimes it's the line of least resistance to go with something bland, because it kind of hits a common denominator acceptability amongst a whole range of different stakeholders, whereas doing anything bold and imaginative could offend people. I mean, I think colour the way it's there, I semiotically. It has both for direct and associative value, that's to say certain types of colour, for example, red. You know, teams that play in red are often seen to be more intimidating, more aggressive. So there's that a direct value. So pink can calm people down, there's a great book called Drunk Tank Pink, which is all about the way decorating a room in different colours can have a measurable effect on a kind of prisoners heart rate in terms of where you take them. And obviously, they're things to do with our age, the way our visual cortex changes in certain colours or sable law, kids up to a certain major only recognise sort of black, red and white are the sort of first cause to develop. That's why they're kind of the colours of revolution and radicalism, because in the most basic, fundamental colours, so they're the sort of direct values but associative values are the way that colours accumulate meanings over time, through their associations, a bit like symbolism. So for example, the use of pastels by interior designers in the 90s, and the sort of value set that that comes with in terms of progressive values in terms of, I don't know, new wave, various types of social value that come along with that, versus the very stark, saturated primary colours of a Mondrian or Piet Mondrian, you know, the very sort of Lyrid, reds and blues and yellows. So that's an example of associative value. And I think, thinking about direct and associative value, what effect physiologically Do you want someone to have in a space in terms of direct value, but also culturally, what sort of associations and ideologies and social values do you want to sort of embed in that space? That's certainly a framework for thinking more strategically about colour, how you actually do that in a particular place. I think a semiotician could be really good as a sort of agitator and provocateur to kind of question cliche, but I would love to work with, you know, a team of people, for example, Natasha Reed, who you work with, isn't another member of the collective who specialises in sort of creating calm, tranquil places that conducive towards positive mental health, and other members of the collective I think semiotics could have a really great role in in challenging the cliches and making sure that we come to a place that has a rationale behind it, because ultimately, semiotics is about justifying every creative decision, because every piece of communication every, because everything communicates that every piece of communication.

Max Farrell  13:13  
That's really interesting, Chris, and I think it just goes back to what you said earlier about the idea that there are non places you think you mentioned, like airports and shopping centres, that's really sort of food for thought. And there's a lot of criticism, and also a lot of political debate, both in local and national level around house building, and house building almost being like these sort of chain shops, where they all are all the housing by a particular house builder looks the same wherever it is, if it's in Bristol or Durham, it's it's the same house type, it's the same street design, it's, and their argument will be well, they're trying to do things as cost effectively as possible, which is obviously legitimate in many respects. Because, you know, there's such small margins often with, particularly with the, you know, construction costs and so on. But at the same time, if we want to build more homes, and we want communities to embrace new development, then it needs to look authentically of that place. I wonder how I know you're not going to have the magic bullet for this. And if you did, I think we would be hugely successful in our collaboration, but just to sort of give an idea of how a say a house builder or, or somebody that had a generic product in the built environment, might tweak that depending on what particular place they're building in. I know that often it's, this is why we're now doing design codes, where we're looking at, you know, existing buildings that are loved in an area and giving cues For new development to follow, whether that's materials or particular ways of treating windows, or what have you, what do you think semiotics could add to that debate? And how might it be a sort of discipline for engaging people in those issues?

Chris Arning  15:17  
I think this comes down to something we've discussed before, which is the kind of ideological meanings of certain types of buildings that we've talked about, you know, in the UK residential developments, colloquially tend to be stereotypes into one of two camps, either they're what we call kind of prison block chic with all the sort of snobbery that entails, like kind of prison precinct like buildings with, you know, numbered buildings that don't have names. And these are often kind of council tenant properties. And on the other hand, you have the sort of Swiss developments that lack soul, and they are sort of tagged as being the kind of scourge of gentrification, and seen as not being very welcome to the local area, they're kind of like enclaves of wealth and privilege in an area that otherwise is suffering. So they, they kind of, they draw the, the ire and the sort of the antagonism of local residents. And I think that's all about, in a way, some of the codes that you've talked about the design codes that are present in those in those buildings wittingly or unwittingly, and perhaps that the architects and the developers aren't aware of some of those, those, those messages that are implicitly being being given off. And I think generally, it's about understanding that whenever you have a visual motif, you're going to likely to have a kind of social meaning attached to it. So whether it's mullioned windows, or like a cobra za like pavilion, or it's a mock to the frontage, those are all going to have like ideological meanings that are offered in the UK will also have class connotations. And I do think Plus is a really fundamental aspect that is a huge taboo in the UK, still, people don't want to talk about it. And our politicians for years have sort of tried to convince us that there is no class or wonder why that is controversial. But I guess my point is, you cannot get away from that and those connotations, because ultimately, every building you put in is either going to be seen as a gesture of inclusion or a gesture, a gesture of exclusion. And Ultra ultimately, it's going to peg you as a developer as being a developer that is seeking to improve the tone of the area or import something that is only going to apparently inflame, you know, a sense of, of sort of growing inequality and equity or non equity or lack of equity in an area.

Max Farrell  17:34  
Wow, that's, that's really fascinating. Chris,

Chris Arning  17:37  
I was gonna say sorry, whether you include this or not, and Myles did that last question was, it was almost like how do you avoid the gross negatives I find with a lot of this stuff, because I haven't invested enough time, apologies on really thinking about how semiotics applies to this stuff. But I know what semiotics could do to help people avoid, avoid mistakes. And it's easy for me to do that, that actually, how would it enhance it? I'd need to work with more of a team for that, I think.

Max Farrell  18:01  
So Chris. One example of where we've worked together recently was on a bid to buy a sort of a house builder to become a partner with a housing association. And that Housing Association had already developed a brand it was for development in Clapham, which was interesting because Clapham is very much mixed in terms of its diversity of the people that live there and of the socio economics of the different groups. And because it was a formerly government housing estate council housing estate, it had a lot of sort of connotations, originally around being quite a sort of monotonous profile of people that lived there. And they were trying to make it more mixed and through densification, but and they developed a brand and one of the things that they asked us to do, as the bidder was to analyse that brand, and look at how that strengths and weaknesses and you know, that SWOT analysis that we did around and the opportunities or the threats of, of evolving the brand or changing that brand. And the piece of what you did was incredibly analytical, and, and also very valuable for for that developer. And it's the sort of thing I think could be applied to any bed or any new development project was, was that a sort of process that you think is something that is a particular offer that you could add it to to a team or any point in time of a development project?

Chris Arning  19:35  
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think semiotics is fundamentally making the invisible visible, and it's pulling out the things that clients don't see in the materials, they're quite willing to sign off on and send out times a million into the world. All the while those things are communicating things about the client that perhaps they shouldn't be communicating to the world and so semiotics is a way Have screening those pieces of collateral to make sure that they're aligned with the messages clients want to give out. So fundamentally, the way semiotics works is my projects are divided into two types. One is where the client will give me the collateral. So that will be there. For example, visual assets, the name, the logo, their brand book with their visual identity, the visual, they're sort of brand livery, and other sort of core visual brand assets that go on all their materials. And then also our look at brand communication materials. So these are, this is advertising that goes out on television or on social media, videos that come up, and so on Snapchat, etc, etc. And so that's one way that semiotics works is that it's a way of reviewing the meanings implicitly, that you're putting out in your materials. And that can reveal you know, so many different things, it can reveal that, for example, BMW Mini is using very cliche signifies Britishness and help them pull back from that and kind of use humour as a more subtle way of conveying Britishness. Or it can tell a brand like BBC One extra actually, you can be a bit more political in the way you celebrate Black British identity, you don't need to be so you know, sort of treading on eggshells around that even though it's the BBC, so it's looking at this collateral and actually then feeding back to people and helping them see things in themselves that they didn't see. And I always say this, and I say this with the most respect and love to clients, to my clients that it's impossible as a brand owner to see your brand and the way others see it. And so one of the first things that semiotician needs to do is to cut through with the illusion that all brand owners have, when I say delusional, my brand, my clients are delusional. I don't mean that in a pejorative sense in any way. I just mean, in the way I can't see myself resigning in the way you see me, it's very difficult as a brand owner to to do that. And so whilst consumers see you differently, to the way you see a brand is a brand manager, they don't have this with a skill tell you what you should do. As a brand owner, you have the skills but you can't see yourself, the way you need to see yourself from a different perspective or as a semiotician is like a broker between the consumer that sees what you don't see, but hasn't got the skills and the brand and, and has the skills but can't see themselves in that way. And I think I'm looking at the way buildings, you know, wrap developments with what I would say mostly in the built environment. sector at the moment, I would say is relatively rudimentary, the branding, I would, I would almost cost is more of badging than branding, because it's a visual identity but without really a cool message that is differentiated and distinct and consistently applied in other areas. But certainly, looking at that wrapping, looking at the other touch points of a brand can help any developer align what they put out in the world with their intended and desired brand, the density and the sort of messages they want to place in the minds of their consumers and potential buyers and stakeholders

Max Farrell  22:51  
away, you can tell the difference between good developers and bad developers is that the good developers, often their own sort of brand takes a back seat when it comes to a new development. So they often create a new brand for specifically for that development. So I'm thinking for example of you and I, and may fields in Manchester, or the custard factory in Birmingham, where it's all about that particular place, and they develop their own brand. But as I'm, as I'm sure you know, better than anyone, that brand is always a sub brand of the person that's originated it in the first place. So you kind of there's the values that will extend from one to the other, but a specific brand is particularly to that place. And I wonder, and I think it would be great if more wood were doing that, because I think when a placemaking brand is of that place is going to always land better. So do you think that that that is something that others could that aren't doing that, for example, it's just you know, they they put a flag with their logo on wherever it is? How easily and, you know, if they were to use you as a sort of critical friend, could could they adapt each particular place to have that sub brand that sort of that place?

Chris Arning  24:10  
Well, I think I think it depends on how much sunk costs, there's already got into development, or that's why semiotics in every vertical industry vertical I work in, but I'm almost certain to say, particularly in the built environment, given the lead times and the investment that goes into planning, construction, planning permission, and the construction would need to happen really early in the process to ensure that mistakes were made that were kind of inextricable, or would cost millions to reverse. But I think certainly what you've outlined, which is a sort of, you know, sort of House of brands rather than a branded house, that classic sort of distinction. So the way that brands a company really only be the endorser of a brand that has its own identity rather than keeping everything consistent with mild distinctions to each individual. Will product. Certainly doing the former allowing an individual brand placemaking brands develop is going to be conducive towards people feeling that they are being catered for and that something isn't being imposed upon them. And it's likely to engender a greater sense of community. In terms of how physically that's done. I think it's done through the naming the visual identity that goes along with it or brand communication Wayfinding, around the the site, and the way in which all of that is brought cohesively to bear so that the memory structures around this brand and reinforced every touchpoint, which is obviously just really fundamentally good branding principles. You

Max Farrell  25:41  
mentioned before about having a genuine commitment to these issues. And there's a lot of talk around about people, you know, whether it's greenwashing or just just doing a sort of enhanced version of Corporate Social Responsibility doing what you have to do box ticking and so on. How can a developer or somebody within the built environment demonstrate that that sort of level of authenticity, that they really do care about these issues and that they're genuine?

Chris Arning  26:11  
That's a really good question. I mean, I think semiotics is a really important discipline in this whole area, because I think Umberto Eco, who was one of the famous popularizers of semiotics, who wrote the novel, The Name of the Rose and wrote loads about semiotics. He once said that semiotic studies, everything that can be used to lie, because he said that if it can't, if a sign can be used to lie, it's not a sign, because a sign is basically saying there is something here, but that thing might not exist, or it may be trying to mislead you. And I think that's never more true than this in this age of sort of fake news and disinformation. But also, in this era, where people are suspicious, rightly so of what institutions tell them. And we have like a call out culture, we have, like a sort of cancel culture, we have brands being dragged on Twitter or as x as it's now known, I believe. And so in that environment, I think the first job of a semiotician working with the built environment. Org organisation is to is to help them not be inauthentic. I think being authentic, unless they are authentic organisation in terms of their desires to do more than just build boxes is harder to instil. But I think stopping people be inauthentic is more important. And I think that comes down to committing it's about commitment. It's not just saying something, it's also investing in it. So one area, I think it's really interesting is that of the arts. So investing in the arts in a place and the new development helps to build a sense of place. And it's one of the key aspects, I would argue of any placemaking strategy. So I know have esteemed fellow members like sound diplomacy, Jack glazier Tottenham Hotspur fan there, and, and also future city. Both of those more, Davey, I believe, both of those organisations are in the business of helping in folds and weave in cultural experiences and cultural brands into places. So I think that building in that sense of culture is important one, because I think culture is something that can, you know, is really good for mental health. I think music is a way of giving people a kind of a mood lifting, uplifting experiences, art, helps brighten places up, quite apart from its effect in terms of deterring criminality, in terms of the broken window theory of crime. So I think committing to art and to investment in kind of kind of cultural capital, if you like, in areas and in new new builds is one way that a brand can can demonstrate that commitment. I think another area is just being really careful not to be seen to jump on the bandwagon, for example, with initiatives and we saw the bandwagon ism that was associated with, you know, the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd in 2020, with Black Lives Matter and brands coming out and talking about their policies on anti racism initiatives. And then very quickly seeing the reality of that which was a lack of commitment or a waning commitment, dei people not given the resources they needed to do their job, and all the other sort of the window dressing that goes with corporate reputation management. So I think it's firstly, the first job is, don't be inauthentic. And then think about how you can commit and invest in initiatives that align with your brand and improve the environment and the community spirit for the residents in the in the place that you are responsible. So

Max Farrell  29:41  
So Chris told me, I mean, we've talked a bit there about, you know, a lack of authenticity or a lack of commitment. That would apply, I suppose in any industry, but I think it's particularly an issue in the built environment. Is there any sort of projects whether it's in built environment or elsewhere that you think do demonstrate that sort of commitment. And also, just as a second question, it'd be interesting to know what what's next for you, and where do you think you'll be in the next sort of 510 15 years time?

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