What Is Community?

Our Next Question is What Is Community? Mark and Amy Williams are back as we dive deeper into their story and hear about the integral role that community plays in our lives.

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Intro & Outro Music: Starting Over by LNDÖ

Who are these people?

Chris Oneth is a Marriage and Family Therapist and owner of Downey Park Counseling Associates, where a team of 15 dedicated counselors and therapists love to bring Christ’s Gospel into the healing work of counseling to anyone who has need. Chris lives in Modesto with his wife Melanie of 30 years and has four grown children and four grandchildren. For fun, he loves to hang out with his family and travel with his wife, as well as experience adventures in the outdoors by overlanding, motorcycling, and mountain bike riding. If you would like to have Chris speak at your event, please email him at chris@chrisoneth.com or visit his website at chrisoneth.com

Melanie Jones is one of those rare people who can listen carefully, think deeply, and still crack a good joke. A self-educated lover of books, gardening, plants, art, projects, and theology, she has a keen understanding of both Scripture and human behavior, and a deep, lived commitment to Jesus. Behind the scenes, Melanie has been instrumental in strengthening Downey Park Counseling and at home she anchors her family with loyalty, resilience, and quiet strength. As co-host of Our Next Question, she brings a wise, gentle, and honest voice to conversations about life, faith, and what it means to be human.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I just felt like my faith grew, my knowledge of Jesus grew, my love of just this Christian family. Like, how can you do life without your this these people? Wow. Um, so I just was like, it's non-negotiable. Like we have to be in community with other believers. Like this is like so important for just motherhood, for friendships, for marriages, for all of the important relationships that just Christ has you in. Like, you can't do, I don't know how you do life without.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

Welcome to our next question, a place of discovery and not the final answer. I'm Chris Ownett, the marriage and family therapist, and sitting next to me is Melanie Jones, part owner of Downey Park Counseling, and my wife.

SPEAKER_07 0:42

Thanks for joining us. Let's get the conversation started.

SPEAKER_05 0:46

Here we are, we're back. Um uh yes, it's been two weeks, and uh we are back here talking about uh what is communicating hello, what is community with Mark and Amy Williams. They have uh graciously agreed to come here today after um avoiding it for a couple months. I think so. Something like this. She's gonna have a baby, we can't show up. And I'm like, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Anyway, she was going to, and then she did.

SPEAKER_05 1:23

She did prior. She did like a few days ago. You guys are she worked with our schedule. Newly minted grandparents. Yes. Awesome. Okay, well, do we do Caleb's Corner first or do we do the icebreaker first?

SPEAKER_07 1:36

Is Caleb ready?

SPEAKER_05 1:37

All right, what's going on in Caleb's Corner?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Okay, I'm gonna talk about fear. Okay. Does anyone know what the fear of spiders is? And uh arachaphobia. Does anyone know what the fear of the number 13 is? That's a fun one.

SPEAKER_07 1:49

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

No. Triscodecophobia. Oh, I've heard that before. Does anyone know what the fear of long words is called? I'm gonna end on this one. Ooh. Fear of long words. Please.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Supercaliphobia. That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

It's hippopata monstra esquid pedaleophobia. No way. I couldn't figure out how to say it. You'll have no fear of just saying words. It's a 36-letter word, so if you have that fear, you can't tell people you have that fear.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Right, because you're too afraid to tell them.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah. It takes too long to do that. That's just cruel. Whoever can come up with.

SPEAKER_05 2:23

Can I make up my own phobia and then just throw in a weird Latin sounding?

SPEAKER_07 2:26

Phobia at the end. Yes. Yes. And you're good.

SPEAKER_05 2:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

So there you go. That's Caleb's corner.

SPEAKER_05 2:32

Well, I almost said instead of arachnophobia, I almost said anachrophobia. Anacrophobia, in which case that would be anachronistic, like fear of anachronism? Yeah, or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Things being out of time.

SPEAKER_05 2:43

Out of time, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yeah. There you go.

SPEAKER_05 2:46

Fear of being out of time.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Fear of weird things.

SPEAKER_05 2:48

We're gonna run out of time if we don't finish this podcast. Let's do a quick icebreaker. Mel, what's the icebreaker?

SPEAKER_07 2:54

Um, okay, bad haircut. What was your worst haircuts, hairstyle experience? That's a quick one.

SPEAKER_05 3:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 3:01

Chris already knows it.

SPEAKER_05 3:03

I don't even know why you even get a chance to answer this one. Well, I don't have hair, so I don't have to worry about it.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Um, 15 photos, though.

SPEAKER_05 3:12

There was a junior high experience.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 3:14

Uh, in where, yes, I was in junior high school, and um I st I don't know how it started to happen, but I started cutting my own hair, which is bad advice at any age, let alone junior high school. So I am like, and this and it began to look like the mullet type of thing, short on the sides, long in the back. And one time I was cutting the side uh uh and it's not like I couldn't said, Mom, can you take me to get a haircut on?

SPEAKER_02 3:47

I was gonna say, Where's your mother? I know, right?

SPEAKER_05 3:50

Poor mom. I was single mom, so she was working all the time and probably didn't uh look at me in the face for uh yeah, yeah. But I um and and so at one point I cut and it cut too short, and I could see like up my scalp. And so this is embarrassing to even say this, even though it's like 150 years later. Uh I freaked out and I thought, oh my gosh, this is gonna be horrible. Well, junior high, yeah. Like, what about junior high is not horrible? So I put a headband on.

SPEAKER_07 4:25

Oh, that's way too sweaty. A sweat one. One of those sweatbands.

SPEAKER_05 4:29

Yeah, this is the 80s. Okay, so it's early. It was like we can make it work. Oh no, I didn't actually I didn't get that vibe. It was actually a it wasn't a sweatband, it was uh it was a karate headband. Oh but I but I in and I bought it at my dojo. Oh, thank you. All right.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

This leads in too.

SPEAKER_05 4:47

It sure does. It's segues. Uh and except the the the the insignia on the the it had the fist and then it had the symbols for karate. I couldn't have that, so I had to turn that over. And I'm wearing this headband, and I must have told the story a hundred times. Oh man, I got stitches. That's what I told people. I got stitches, they had to shave my head. Well, no, here's it's all coming back to me now. This story's blowing all of your stories away. But anyway, I feel like I don't even have a so I said, I oh, I hit my head, they were gonna give me stitches, they shaved it, and it turns out I didn't need stitches. And I remember saying this to because I would say this story again and again. Here's what happened, here's what happened anyway. So I say this to my youth leader, and he goes, Oh, come on, you were probably cutting your hair, and you went, Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Called out.

SPEAKER_05 5:39

So I had to you know eliminate him.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

But you would have been so much better off keeping the goju fist right on the there and said, Someone came into our dojo and challenged us. That's right. Exactly. Now I I wear his blood on this. There you go. There you go. You didn't know the goju fist. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 6:00

Okay, well go ahead, underlings. Okay, look, you got one.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Stop that. Like during COVID, I think I had a man bun grew out my hair. That took a while. Wow. Like the sides were shaved, but the middle was long. Of course, that's the popular thing.

SPEAKER_07 6:15

It's not too bad.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

No, it was I thought it was good. I never had a bad hairstyle.

SPEAKER_07 6:19

So never? Not even in junior grade.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

High school, I did have like sideburns because that was as much as I could grow, and they were very mismatched and kind of patchy. At the time, I didn't think anything of it. So I looked back and saw a picture not too long ago, and I was like, ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

Ah that might be better. The worst haircut you ever had. Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_07 6:50

I wasn't around, but I saw pictures. Go ahead, Mel. What were you gonna say? Um so mine was in sixth grade, so junior high also. It's the worst time to have a bad hair experience. But I wanted a perm. And everyone wanted to. For some reason, um I let my aunt Evelyn do it. Oh. And it it was so bad. It was huge. And and I had probably shoulder length hair, but then you perm that and it you look like a poodle. It's just oh I wasn't. Oh, you didn't like it. No, I knew it was bad. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 7:31

Oh, you knew right support decisions.

SPEAKER_07 7:33

So I was like combing and combing trying to like.

SPEAKER_05 7:36

Oh wow. But it was a permanent.

SPEAKER_07 7:38

I must have been curly. Was it? No, it wasn't curly back then. Oh, it wasn't curly back. Okay. Yeah.

unknown 7:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 7:45

So that was that.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yeah, go ahead. You're gonna hand me the mic. Um here we go. Your turn. I'll say it was probably when I had maybe my second baby. Third baby. I don't remember which baby, but I just had a baby, and you know, they're they're fingers, and I was like, I'm over it. So I literally butched my hair. I was I literally had like super short boycott. Like oh. I think I remember that. Yeah, it was it was probably early redeeming. And there were times when I was like, okay, I love this, but then I was like looking back at pictures and I'm like, this isn't the best look. I felt very masculine with it. Like I did.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

I was like, like I never thought masculine when I saw it. But I just felt that way.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

I feel like they pushed some earrings on a little lip gloss. And so I'm like, okay, and then and then it's honestly probably the worst part about that was trying to grow that out.

unknown 8:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

So what do you think? Was that my worst?

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Oh, hands down, your worst haircut.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

He's so sweet. He's like, however, you want it, and he never really complained about it, but it was like I feel like now that you've I'm like, what should I do? Should I cut my hair off? And you're like, no. Now you'll tell me. Like back then, you're like, whatever you want to do, and then you're like, maybe I should have an opinion.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Yeah, now I do. Now I'm willing to voice my opinion. It's well, you didn't speak up last time like what happened. She's nursing, she's got a baby. I'm not saying a word, right? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, you're outgunned on that. Yeah. Mine, who? Do you need help? Uh well, uh yeah, no, I'm I'm trying. Like, I, you know, what's going on? At one point, probably one summer did a flat top, yeah, whatever. But then there was some kind of side like spiky thing. Is that the one you're thinking?

SPEAKER_02 9:23

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Which which one are you thinking?

SPEAKER_02 9:25

It was there was like last week. They have Mark's Mark's mom has a kid wall, and they it goes from baby and it has like all the years of all the kids. So I've seen all their pictures like the kid wall. So he had a picture where it was parted down the middle and feathered.

SPEAKER_05 9:42

Yes, they're getting that was a total thing.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

I remember it was actually horrible.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

The feathered parted in the middle. Bad ones because I really don't care.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Also, he has sisters though that kind of wanted him to be hip and so they would do his hair, and it was a really bad thing.

SPEAKER_05 9:57

Oh, that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Uh-huh. They'll they're they'll they'll apologize, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_05 10:02

I for years I tried to part my hair down the middle. Yeah. Because that was the thing. It was, yeah. Uh, you know, and I should have just succumbed to the side part that I naturally have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:12

Now I can't do it at all.

SPEAKER_05 10:13

I know. You should have you should have taken advantage of it while you had hair. That's true. That's true. Uh okay. Well, that's a good that was a good opener. All right. Okay, so uh obviously last episode we talked about your guys' story, how you met, how you got together, some of your ways of thinking. Um, and to talk to roll his eyes.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

I think so.

SPEAKER_05 10:32

Touched a little well, you didn't have to point that out. I was thinking about something else.

SPEAKER_06 10:36

Okay, great.

SPEAKER_05 10:37

Uh we touched a little bit on uh church community. Now, you guys have experienced community in a lot of different ways. Uh and so uh I'm gonna leave the floor to you guys. Tell me how you guys are experiencing community these days, and yeah, we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Don't all talk at once. Oh, I think I think when we started going, I'm gonna go back a little bit and then we'll come to our current um community situation. Um, I feel like when we started going to Redeemer Church, our fourth baby was six months old. And so Tessa was six months old, and I really feel like at Redeemer Church in Modesto was the time when we would say church is a catalyst. Like, like community is outside the church. And honestly, in all the years that I'd been to church, which was probably less than most of you, um, I'd uh church was it. It was like church, and then you'd have, you know, you talk a little about your quiet time at home, but then like we didn't really have like groups other than like youth group or maybe a Bible study here or there.

SPEAKER_04 11:49

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

And so community groups were huge. It was like, I think back then we were like 85% in community groups. Like it was amazing how we were like really promoting. We would we would talk to each other, hey, what community group are you in? Hey, what and it was just this amazing time of this is so important. And in those however many years was it, 10 years at Redeemer, I just felt like my faith grew, my knowledge of Jesus grew, my wow, love of just this Christian family. Like, how can you do life without your this these people?

SPEAKER_06 12:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Um, so I just was like, it's non-negotiable. Like, we have to be in community with other believers. Like, this is like so important for just motherhood, for friendships, for marriages, for all of the important relationships that just Christ has you in. Like, you can't do I don't know how you do life without and you and do I hear you saying that you learn that at Redeemer? I really feel like that was the first time I'd really heard that. Because it was like, oh, you go to church on a Sunday, polish yourself up a little bit, hold up your mask.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

And it wasn't like that at Redeemer. It was like you could be having a hell week, and you come and you share that with people. Yes. So it was just really real living in front of people, and and how encouraging and helpful people are praying and walking out this life beside you. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

So I love that.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Life-changing.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Yeah, and I'd agree, that's that's probably been where we had the deepest uh community.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Um for me, uh kind of growing up in the church, you know, as a youth group and things like that, right? You had had those things. Um, but you also had just longevity of being at a church with people for many, many years. Yeah. Yes. Right. And and then your family has, so you're, you know, so-and-so's brother or so-and-so's kid or you're one of those Williams kids. Yeah, exactly. You're the second row person. Oh, you married into the Williams family. That's me. Middle left, second row, you know. And your dad's the one that's always cracking jokes to the pastor in the middle of a sermon. Oh, and it's a joke church in the weather small church. And they would trade jokes back and forth. It's just hilarious. That was kind of growing up. So you kind of always had it just from just time, having time together. So you, you know, you youth pastors who who'd been there for generations and things like that. So there was community there and familiarity. Yeah, that's like a default. Yeah, and we're comfortable following. Um, and uh, you know, maybe the like the youth pastors would, you know, you'd have a little bit more depth because they would, you know, be concerned, you know, uh want to know what's going on in your life and that kind of thing, spend time with you. Um, and then your peers, you just kind of, you know, you're not really thinking about maturity, um, depth and necessarily. Um and but then going to a Christian school, I had a little bit more of that, but you had it every day of the week.

SPEAKER_05 14:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

So your teachers were your mentors, your your coaches, and you had chapel on Wednesday days, and then you had, you know, what are your uh you know, they would have a you'd have your Bible teacher and you know, maybe uh teaching classes, and then um they would have, you know, get together and and talk about discipleship and things like that. So I kind of had that modeled with my parents, but also modeled in our environment growing up.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

Um and your parents were involved in different like communities and stuff that you saw growing up?

SPEAKER_03 15:06

You know, but I I wouldn't say I saw that. Okay, not necessarily. Um not the way I would say we kind of knew it from like Redeemer, where you had small groups and community groups like kind of like that. It was it was it looked different, okay, I would say in that. But but the way it community played out for me would have been more discipleship, okay, you know, one-on-one. So I I remember um he was well, he was my English teacher, but he also was our ensemble teacher, so that's where I learned to sight read and um a cappella and things like that. And he was the one that said he was also the worship pastor for our our Wednesday morning uh chapels. He would he was one that says, Oh, Mark, you're playing guitar now? Great. Uh, you're gonna do worship. I'm like, I'm gonna do worship. Okay. I had a 12-string guitar that actually one of my teachers gave to me from an auction that we had at the school, and we still have it to this day. It's amazing. Nice. Love you. Um and um and so I you know, I I think the year before I tried out for the band, but I, you know, my friends that were doing it, they've been playing guitar far longer. I didn't make the cut, you know. Shredding in your life. My senior year, I've my ensemble teacher says, You're he he played from the he he led from the piano, which was in the pit offside stage, and drums were in another pit on the other side. And he said, It's you know, he's like, Hey, you you're gonna play. You know, he obviously knew how I can sing because he'd been teaching me uh-huh and uh that I could play guitar and strum pretty well. Um, and so he's okay. I'm like, all right, all right, I'm nervous as all get out. And he's you know where he stuck me? Center stage right in the front.

SPEAKER_05 16:40

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

I mean, I I mean, I'm an introverted. Yes, I'm an athlete, and that's how I'm known. Um confident in those areas, but like, what? Oh, isn't that so man? He just pushed me out front. But he's like, he's got it from the side. This guy's amazing singer, right? Piano playing. But he's on the side. But he's on the side. And it was that was a huge moment because I had that spurred me on to uh the the church that was right across the street from my from Quell Lakes, where I grew up was the school, which was part of uh Lakeview Assembly, so Assemblies at God Church. I grew up at a Baptist church, so yeah, it was always interesting. And um they their worship leader at that church was a guitarist, and he would do a Sunday morning because we had Sunday school, right? Right, uh guitar worship leading class. So I would go to church, uh I would cross the street, take my guitar every morning, we'd go to church, and I would walk across the street and take that class with him, and come back and go to service with my family. Um and he's going to South Korea or North Korea. And the environment that was available, I see. It was like more like one-on-one kind of opportunity. And then um with that transition to when I got involved in like uh in ministry, um, youth ministry, you know, started from there. It was discipleship was always part of my life. So the worship pastor there, just a little bit older than me, we were amazing friends, and we would get together at Carro's and Stockton off the 99. Wow and Marshalling, and we'd have breakfast and we'd we'd open scripture, we'd we'd we'd discuss theology, and uh and he was really uh brought some important things into youth ministry at that time, which was hey, we're gonna do uh high school community group where we actually open the Bible up and study it verse by verse. Right on and and teaching them the difference between eisegesis, exegesis, and different concepts. And you just watch these kids just soak up knowledge. And um, so I kind of had that started there.

SPEAKER_05 18:39

So little by little, there's always community, there's some fashion.

SPEAKER_03 18:43

So familiarity, so you know each other, you grew up a church together, that kind of thing, or a lot of one-on-one discipleship. Okay. But uh, and then in in leading and youth ministry, there was things there, but it was still different than what I experienced at Redeemer, which was let's go through life together. Uh, yes, kind of community where something we said often. Yeah, you're you're together uh with people sometimes going through the same stage of life, many times not, you know, some a little ahead of you, some a little before you.

SPEAKER_05 19:10

Hey, Mark, I'm gonna pause you right there because we're gonna take a moment to hear from our sponsor. Hey, ladies and gentlemen, this is Chris Onith reminding you that our next question is brought to you by Danny Park Counseling Associates, where since 1977, we have a group of Christian counselors that are ready to help you with any need. Visit us at our website at dannyparkcounseling.com. Okay, we're back. So we were just talking about And we're back. It's been a while. I think if I if I can remember where we left on that. Yes, yeah, man. Traveling. Well, so we were talking about it.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Is it okay if I I'm interrupting? Sorry, Chris. Please. I would say, interestingly, it was very different from Redeemer, but even to this day, I I don't know if do you which one do you think you'd prefer? We can get back to that.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Because I say you do a lot of one-on-one community. Even now, we do other types of community now, but I feel like if you had to pick it's well, what do I am naturally drawn to? And those people that you meet one-on-one with, a lot of times you're also living life with them.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

So yeah, I I do. I've I uh there's probably five, six people that I'm constant discipleship mentorship uh relationships over the years, some of which I mean that takes a lot of energy. It does, and um, it takes both parties willing to commit to it, right? And then scheduling it and remembering and all those things, you know. Because the people who will never that I'd have to chase all the time, I just I'll just drop them. Not not sure I love them to death, but I'm not gonna pursue that anymore. If it's important, then they'll they'll make it important, you know.

SPEAKER_06 20:44

I'm never gonna drop it.

SPEAKER_03 20:45

Um but so yeah, I would say that yes, that is probably my favorite, and that probably makes more sense because it's one-on-one or small. Being more extroverted, you know. Um until it becomes a group where you've got a lot of really good individual connections now you're all together, we're just one big happy family. So I'm comfortable there.

SPEAKER_05 21:05

I'm assuming that's what you mean by living life together. You just involve others in your life. Yeah, yeah. And you're involved in theirs, there's calls back and forth, there's hey, I've been thinking about you. Right, right. And it's not just you know, we all do hopefully we do things for our individual selves. And sometimes it's as easy as saying, hey, I'm gonna go do this thing. You wanna join me? Right. Right. And whether that for me is riding bike or you know, I have this piece I need welded. And so I'm talking contacting my buddy Dave saying, Dave, like, hey, work with me and weld this piece on here, and I will or you can call your neighbor Luke, who's really good at that stuff too. Their son is a welder. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

So sorry, shameless plug for my son to go over there.

SPEAKER_05 21:46

I could. I said, Well, bring my bottle jack and your welding tool.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

Um but I would say what re what what we the timing of when we uh were going to Redeemer as young parents. Um, you know, with children and a lot with a lot of other people with children, all with a common desire of really growing deeper in our relationship with Christ and and our knowledge and and how to study and and uh just theological concepts that maybe we hadn't addressed yet or we were in the middle of, and then a commonality, a unity that was there, right, even in our theology. You know what I mean? Like if I if I'm you know more of a reformed, uh you know, bent on things versus not, or you know, whatever those things are, you know, sometimes we have differences, and other times we really are united, and it's just a battle you don't have to fight. So you can now just kind of you're not there's the friction's not there. So now you're able to grow and challenge and deal with hey, what do I do with you know I mean at this stage of my life with kids or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 22:48

Wouldn't that be there also through actually caring for each other? Like I mean, if you truly love someone, then if they have a little bit of difference here and there, it's like okay, I'm not gonna hold that against you. It's not like you're gonna go, you know, yeah, rob me of all my yeah, goods and okay, so okay, this brings up the other big question I have about the way you guys practice community and especially non-Christian community. And so, um, I mean, I call it non-Christian. I don't know if it's non-Christian, but when I think about your dojo and what a community you guys have built there, I can't tell you how many parties we've been to your house, and there's your dojo. Yeah. Now they're not all trying to fight me or anything, but yeah, uh, but it's not, yeah, but they're but they're people you were obviously doing life with. How did that start? And what are some of the big things you guys have been through to actually shore up those relationships?

SPEAKER_03 23:40

And yeah, maybe before we're doing that, just one last thought on the other is it's what's really important and was important there is that Amy and I, as a husband and wife, had a community together as well. So, like all the discipleship or or guys I meet with is me. Doesn't involve Amy, right? And so having community that we can do together is is equally important. Oh man, that's a good point, Mark. Because you build friends that you'll go on vacation with, like you guys are obviously we love Yosemite this summer, yeah. That's right, and threatening threatening. Yeah, that you build together, and so and I'll and let Amy talk a little bit about this too, but you know, you you give close friends that are willing to go, Mark, you're kind of a jerk. Right on. Yeah, Amy's been telling you about my behavior, and and you know, but there's an accountability because you know they love you. Yeah, totally. That you know, like, okay, we're safe because they want the best out of all of us, even in our relationship.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

So totally talk a little bit and then we'll go into the dojo, but yeah, no, I I mean I've already said what I need to say, but it's those friends, I feel like those friendships too that we formed at Redeemer, which also includes, of course, Chris and Mel, um, we're still friends with them. Oh, yeah. We still live life together, we still call each other. We you know, Mel and I get to get together, get to get together a lot, and I think it's purposeful for us too because we're busy and we have to make that happen. But yeah, go ahead and you want to start on how we started even going to a dojo.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he was at the beach and the big old bully kicked sand in his face. I was bullied as a kid. Which I actually I wasn't. No, you don't strike me as the bullied type. No, I just I think I was just the right size, athletic, and it just it never came my way for whatever reason. But um, yeah, I it was well, it was we were Kylie was in ballet in Modesto, and we live in Stockton, so it was like 30, 35 minutes. Oh goodness, and she was 16 hours a week. So Amy's driving her to you know to Modesto to do that, and she's like, What do I do with you know, this would be uh uh Daniel, Luke, and Tessa. She's like, What do I do with these three? Running their older sister around everywhere, and they're like in the car with me all the time, and you know, and so she basically put them in uh taekwondo because it was nearby, and they did that. And when uh Kylie was done doing ballet and Amy was done run half an hour both directions four days a week.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Like, this isn't how our what our family is supposed to look like. It's like we're eating fast food in separate cars in separate cities on the phone to each other. And I was like, this is horrible. We're not doing this.

SPEAKER_05 26:20

Like I love that.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Yeah, so I'm like, what are we doing together? And so we had a friend that basically invited us to a workout class on Saturdays. He ran a dojo. We were like, we're gonna put our kids in karate.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

Well, and and I was you know playing church league or beer league softball, that kind of with with my buddies from my church that I grew up with, you know, the community of people that I've knew just from my whole life, right? Okay, and so we do that and had a had a great time, but you know, I'm getting to the point where like, yeah, my shoulders are not gonna handle this a lot because you're a pitcher. I was a pitcher, and but I played the middle infield, and so you know, I'm at almost 40. No one actually trains to get their arm in condition, you know, all these things. And if you see slow-mo, I've got to do the desk job and throw things, like that, and and uh it was just like I can't this is painful after the first two weeks of my arms hanging because I don't know how to throw slow. I just you know wired is like this. Gotta bring the heat, man. And uh yeah, exactly. Um so yeah, we went to the workout class, and then I've always wanted to do martial arts. And we were I was asking one of my buddies, I'm like, hey, we want to do something here in town for the kids. You know, they're like, Well, my you know, my my friend you know runs the school, you know. Um I'm like, okay. So I took the kids there and then realized they had an adult class in them all.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

No, no, Luke was turning 13, so he was going into the adult class, and Mark calls me and says, Amy, I think I'm gonna join the adult class with Luke.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

And I think watch my son do something I've been wanting to do. No, are you kidding me? Karate is for kids.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

What are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 27:54

Yeah, she literally said that. Karate is for kids.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

What? Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:57

And we were doing our workout class and stuff. So I started.

SPEAKER_05 28:00

So the workout class was separate from this karate thing.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Yeah, so Rodney, who was who it was his dojo, okay. He ran a workout class on Saturday, so this kind of fitness thing. We we started doing that. That's how they wrote. My good friend that referred me as martial artists, uh jujitsu, screamer, karate, all that stuff. So um he and Rodney are good friends growing up together, and so I would do that, and then I started doing jujitsu with him and his garage. And and then Luke turns 13, and I'm like, I'm not gonna sit here and watch, I'm I'm gonna get on the map. There's no way to do this.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

And so at this point, Tessa, Daniel, Luke, and Mark are all doing karate, and I'm still doing Saturday morning classes. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:38

And then I got her in to the class with me.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Yeah, and I was like, But I'm not doing it.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Did you have to wheel and deal to get her in?

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Did you have to be like, I'm sorry, why do we have to wear all these clothes? Well, it became hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

We're gonna do this as a family, you know. And it's worked out and you know, uh, and good for us to do it.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Kylie ended up joining and doing it for a little while, so she was doing karate.

SPEAKER_05 28:57

So we were literally all a family that kicks A together. Yeah, stays together. I know.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Well, and and and the whole point though that was we were together. I was like, this is so much better. So basically, we were like, you know what? Like mandatory, sorry guys, we're all doing karate. Like this is what we're doing. I basically joined we have our own business. Mark um is you know, is stressed, but he doesn't have an outlet. Uh-huh. So he's getting headaches and bloody noses.

SPEAKER_05 29:22

Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Because he holds it in and he's not gonna take it out on anyone. But he needs, you know, some kind of outlet. So when he really truly when he wanted to go, I was like, this is actually gonna be great, even though I teased him about it.

SPEAKER_04 29:33

Yeah, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

So we were all doing karate, and I was there to hang out with my family, not because they really wanted to.

SPEAKER_05 29:40

So, first of all, I love that because I hear again and again from families who are like, Oh, we're just running everywhere and doing this and doing that. And you guys made the conscious decision to say, we are not doing that. Yeah, we're gonna do something together. Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, so uh we did that, and I'm I'm it's athletic, yeah. There's some competitiveness involved, you know, a uh ability to have competition there, but it's also with other people in community, which was so much. It's engaging not only only physically but mentally, because you have to learn a lot of things, you have to start to learn some Japanese terms, sure. Uh very technical, and so that kind of ticks all the boxes from me.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

And by the way, learning a skill for anyone is a huge self-esteem boost. Yeah. It's just it's even a branch of uh therapy called the oh gosh, what is it called? Um, Mel's giving me nothing.

SPEAKER_07 30:34

We'll think of it later.

SPEAKER_05 30:34

Anyway, yes, yes. Um self-determination theory. SDT. Self-determination theory. Competence. Better than S T D, but I thought he said in my S D T. S D T. Did I say S T D?

SPEAKER_06 30:47

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 30:47

I don't know. Oh kids escapate. Right. I just uh still junior higher. I haven't never gone beyond junior. No, yeah. So there is a there is an i i issue of competence and being able to say I can handle myself and my environment. Now that doesn't necessarily mean about martial arts, it could mean um how to change a tire. Right. Right?

SPEAKER_03 31:08

So anyway, go yeah. So I I know, and so for me, especially being an athlete, and you start something like this and you go, I don't look anything like my instructor. He's smooth and strong, like this is different movement.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

And then you start to learn even from a dance background, we were we were fish out of water.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Wow. For sure. It was learning from the big thing. You were fish out of water because I don't have that background. I'm still out of water with that. But yeah, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

I'm just saying you have an athletic. I didn't play baseball. Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

Yes. So that was the challenge. Okay, sir. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna let this you know beat me, you know. I missed totally on this so I'm not gonna let this beat me. Um and then anything I want to do, I I just do it. I go after it and I really study and I learn it and practice and things so uh obsessive about it um in that sense.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

And we do this for what five years?

SPEAKER_03 31:56

It was four and a half years or something like that before Rodney died. So in that, and Rodney's it an extrovert, life of the party. Pulls everyone together, pulls yeah, barbecues hanging out, and so that and then he's Hawaiian, so we had this in common. He loved baseball. His dad baseball from Hawaii. And and so we had this commonality there. It's our new community, and they're like, You're just you're part of our Ohana, you know, you're family. Yes, ohana. So you had this culture uh and community centered around something we did together, yes, and you had these people who brought always they just loved each other. They're yeah, a lot of them are family and stuff, and they just became family, you know. Yeah, we and and because you had something in common, now this is not a church community, yes. Okay, and and uh so you had something else in common, which would be the martial art, yes, um, or the people that are putting the martial art, you know, or so still living life together, and you live life together. Um so you're I mean and you're training I'm I'm training four almost five days a week.

SPEAKER_05 32:57

So wait, every to every meeting, every chance you get to hang out with these people, are you going through the four spiritual laws and how much that uses us? No.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

No, but having some amazing conversations.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

But you're and they're loving them and being loved by them at the same time. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

And they love you and they trust us, and we're you know, it's like you're the like we got lots of phrases of you are the most real Christians we've ever met.

SPEAKER_05 33:26

Like I'm gonna clap anywhere. Yeah, I can tell my back, Kaylee.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Because, you know, we're just we live life out loud. Yeah. And so we're gonna share our faith, we're gonna share what Jesus has done, we're gonna share all of those things in our community with them, and they're gonna come to us. And Mark, really, especially with the guys, have had an amazing ministry within this dojo, just sharing our faith, living life out loud, sacrificing our time for them and their time for us, and really we're family.

SPEAKER_05 33:55

Yeah, and and guys, here's uh what I know about you guys. You're not and I don't want to poo-poo. I mean, I don't want to like seem like I'm belittling any of those who do this, but I know in your community, you're not going to people all the time saying, Do you know where you're gonna go if you're gonna die today? Right, right. Or or it's it's listening, it's caring, and it's and it's being the people that people say, You're the most real Christians I've I've ever met.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Yeah, and and it's it's going from this is one of the things I think growing up, especially if you grow up in the church, you have this idea of what does witnessing, you know. It's a whiff without missing, right? Well, you've got the uh the pamphlet, sports or spiritual rights.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

We know it.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

Things like that, and there's good in these things, right? Or standing on the corner and like, oh man, I I'm not an extroverted person. You'll never get me out here doing this.

SPEAKER_05 34:50

Wait, I got in trouble from saying standing on the corner all last time. You could certainly do that.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Exactly. So there's all these ways in that we we have maybe what we think is a model for it that really don't match us. Yes, 100%. And so really growing up, it was kind of like, oh, I'm not doing this thing from a very extroverted group of people or way of even doing church and doing worship. So, you know, very very charismatic. I'm like, I'm not a charismatic person. No, sure. So that was very foreign to me, and good luck getting me to conform. I'm not gonna conform, uh, you know, in that way. And so I it was always a dilemma of going, well, I I don't know how to do this, but that's what I think that means is you've got to be, you know, very outwell.

SPEAKER_05 35:36

Yes, you have to use the same jargon, the same cultural references.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

Every time you get a chance, like now's your time, you better get the gospel out and have this. And um, I struggle with that, and you you fear it, and you all these things. And what I learned was be in a community where you have something in common, love the people and hang out with them with some warnings, and that if you don't have the willpower and the ability to abstain and resist temptation, sin, then don't don't put yourself in that position. You know, be careful of that, right? Yes. But if you if you if that is not an issue, then you love this community.

SPEAKER_05 36:13

Well, you've and that boils down to you've got to know exactly who you are. Right. You've got to know where you are in Christ and know that He provides all the blessings, and so anything that looks like even if they're like struggling with whatever, right it's it's not gonna lead you to any sort of completion.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

Yeah, and you hit a good point there, confidence. Confidence in who I am because of Christ. Yeah, that I don't need to be afraid of my faith in front of a group of worldly people. Right, right. Um, which means I don't and also feeling like I it is not my job to save them. You're absolutely right. I'm though I'm a fallen person, I can't save anybody. I can't even save myself, right? Right. So what I am is an image bearer, yes, and I'm called to be a light, and I'm called to love. Right. And and love doesn't mean acceptance, but uh you know, but love people, serve them as well. So as we kind of we are in this community, uh I'm maturing, and Amy's uh we're both maturing through this, going, Wow, because what we saw community like within the church at Redeemer at the time, right? We were going, we go, it's the same thing. The difference is we might have a different subject matter we talk about that brings us together. And so being good listeners, loving people, serving them, having something in common, having meals together, uh laughing, things like that. Um making fun of each other, you know, humor is always part of that. And then as they do that, guess what people who become friends talk about? Real life, like what's going on. Absolutely. And now you get a ch and then they also observe. Wow. Hey, why don't you guys have the look you guys look like you got all together? Like, uh it's because you don't see under the hood yet, but yes, let me let me open the hood so you can see a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 38:06

I did kick my closet door ferociously that one time.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

Yeah, well, I've I've got lots of holes in walls. Uh but that's the thing that we would both equally uh open up and say, This is this might look like this because you're seeing self-control. Oh, yeah. But let me just take take what you see, this mask off, and say, No, no, no, no, no. I need a savior. And here's what I do this, and and you guys, you want to put me on a pedestal, let me just knock it off myself. Like we're not gonna go there. And it opened conversations up where people would go, Well, I've been struggling with this, or wow, I know I should be doing this. God's gonna do a you know, he's gonna strike me down, or they'd have these different ideas because maybe they have a uh different backgrounds growing up, and we would just have real honest conversations with them. They would hear the gospel from us, but they'd hear it in the context of of they we know them. Yes, and and I don't have and and because we serve them, love them, served by them, right? Loved by them, so this equal community uh that takes time, yes, not being afraid to to share Christ with them and be um confident in that.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Yes, also call them out, and also call them out. They call us out, like it's a it's a community as if like just a regular yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

So So those new. Yeah, and I think when you have genuine relationships like that, people you know you know who what makes every person tick. You know their strengths, their weaknesses, and what they're struggling with. And I mean every one of these people would go to bat for me. Wow if if there was an altercation, they'd be the first people there. And I feel like they have in some cases, yeah, and they'll protect my rep reputation. I mean, they'll go they'll they're they're friends, you know, and vice versa. Um we call that rider day. Yeah, yeah, right or day, that's right. That's right. Oh, we got matching tattoos, uh which well many of us do, but um, but that's the community that was there, and um the relationships that were forged through that, and then you know, unfortunately Rodney was killed about four and a half years into that journey. Wow, and that brought us even closer together. We had to mourn together, we had to figure out how to go through life together. Yeah, I was asked by the family to take over the legacy of that school and continue to teach. Wow, and and then everybody comes together behind us, like we're supporting you. Yes, and so you have this thing, you know, the anniversary of his death, we try to get together and we still hang out, things like that.

SPEAKER_05 40:38

And so and so, what an example Rodney was as far as Ohana and saying this is what we do, yeah. And uh, and I don't know about if he had a relationship with the Lord or not, or whatever, but that idea of you guys are part of this family now, and and as believers, being able to say this is what family truly looks like and this is how we love each other is incredible. So that's a that's an amazing legacy.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

Yeah, and and Amy likewise has made great friendships there, and you know what happens typically when you're pretty much one of the very few Christians in a group is that you're the advice line, right? And that happens.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Um which we want to be because this is our opportunity to share Christ in the most natural way possible. Like and and like this is how Jesus did it, right? You you would talk and walk and live with people and then you love them.

SPEAKER_05 41:34

Well, you didn't show up on the scene saying, Well, you shouldn't be doing this, shouldn't be doing that, and well, I don't know, that's not right. Yeah, yeah. You loved and were loved. Correct. And um, and then it became a natural progression of hey, I care about you. Right, right. And if we and I mean as Christians, if we don't care first, we don't love first, yeah. Um, then the only reason we're trying to uh oftentimes the only reason we're trying to get someone to do something else is because we're not comfortable with that.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:02

And so we're we are more uncomfortable than we are loving. Yeah. And that's rough.

SPEAKER_04 42:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

Yeah, and it's the idea of uh be in the world, but don't be of it. Yes. Right. And so it's very I I and just again, as a younger believer, trying to understand all these things, you you're trying to everything was about abstain and and be away from it. Don't be part of it, don't identify it, don't listen to what they listen to, things like that. There's some wisdom in that for sure. Right. 100%. Um, because it sin can easily pull you in where you make compromises. Yes. Um, and that's we're talking about confidence in who Christ is. Uh-huh. Um, confidence that you know you're going into a situation where um the temptation's just not there. No, it doesn't hold sway for me because I know who Yeah, if the temptation's highly there, you probably should avoid that. Or you need that group to understand, hey, if you know if you're an alcoholic and these guys like to party and stuff like that, and it doesn't bother them till the next morning. You know, and that was a problem for you. You'd better believe, like, hey, group, I'm if you're an alcoholic, you'd let them know. Yeah, they would stop right there. Sure. Because they love you, actually. They really do love you. But you have to have confidence in their your friendship with them. Wow. Uh that you didn't feel pressured to I to be part of the group in that same exact way. So I, you know, I don't I'll I'll drink alcohol with the guys, but I won't get drunk. I don't I hate it. I don't ever want to feel that way. Oh, it's thumbs up. But these guys will, and they'll bear their soul to me. You know, and they do, and I love them because I'm actually hearing truth that they're not hiding. Wow. And whether they remember all the conversations, some of them still do. I'm I'm learning more about them. Right on. You know, and Amy the same way. We we we know what what really is important to them, what they're struggling with, and that enables us to love them after you know, after they're done with their hangover or whatever. Sure. Sure, we're still here, man. We are, we're still here, and um, and then we've had you know my students' parents and they come up to me and like a they're a believer and they so all of a sudden they're going, Oh, I see what you you guys are. And wow. Then they can be part of the same community and loving these people. That's awesome. And being loved by them. Because they our friends love us and they they do the same things that our friends in the church community do for us.

SPEAKER_05 44:17

That's amazing to be loved. And uh guys, thank you so much for coming here and sharing for having us and opening up. What a great example and what a great encouragement to us to not just have a church community but community outside of church loving people wherever we go is Christ certainly loves us.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

And if you're worried about having an opportunity to share with people who need to hear the gospel you got to be where they are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're probably not going to come to you.

SPEAKER_05 44:49

Absolutely you got to go out to them. Yeah. Get involved in what they are and truly appreciate things about them. So okay well uh we are our time together is now done. So thank you guys so much. Thanks for having us thank you for joining us today if you've gotten anything from this podcast please like it subscribe and share with a friend.

SPEAKER_07 45:12

And be sure to join us next time for our next question