Lab Voices

Samuel Pefok Interview

• Pathologists Overseas • Season 1 • Episode 2

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Dr. Tim Amukele interviews Dr. Samuel Pefok, who has a doctorate in health science and works as a clinical lab scientist at Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center. 

Tim:

Welcome to the Lab Voices Podcast from Pathologists Overseas. This is Tim Amukele, President at Pathologists Overseas. Our guest today is Sam Pefok, who has a doctorate in health science and also works as a clinical lab scientist at Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center. Uh, welcome Sam.

Samuel:

Thank you Dr. Tim, and thanks for having me.

Tim:

Yeah. So, I want to hear a little bit about your background and what made you the person that you are today. So, tell me a little bit about your childhood and what those experiences were, if there were any experiences that drew you towards science.

Samuel:

Okay. Well, my, father is a retired,Reverend Pastor of the Presbyterian Church in Cameroon.

Tim:

Okay.

Samuel:

And my mom, she's also retired. She was district president of the Christian Women Fellowship in Mezam, Cameroon.

Tim:

So you're a church person.

Samuel:

I am, I am. I am

Tim:

Me too. Me too.

Samuel:

So, I grew up in Bamenda in the northwest region of Cameroon. So, I benefited from the then Basel Mission Elementary School to attend school as a pastor's son before the real, school-going age.

Tim:

Okay.

Samuel:

My parents emphasized education to all their six children. And they instilled in us values such as compassion, respect for others, and hard work and dedication, and they stressed the importance of giving back to the community.

Tim:

Okay. Okay. So, from way back, you were always oriented towards philanthropy.

Samuel:

Philanthropy, yeah.

Tim:

Okay. Okay. Interesting

Samuel:

[Laughter]. And, when I completed secondary school, I went into high school and I actually loved science and I had the intention to study pharmacy in the future.

Tim:

Okay.

Samuel:

After high school, I worked as a pharmacy technician at City Chemist in Bamenda.

Tim:

Okay. And, how old were you then?

Samuel:

Uh, then I was about 19.

Tim:

Okay.

Samuel:

Yeah. And I walked there just to raise money to continue with my education abroad.

Tim:

Okay. So, you already had that idea of studying abroad?

Samuel:

Well, pharmacy was not offered in the only university in Cameroon at that time, which is the University of Yaoundé, and it's located in the capital city.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

So, to study pharmacy, you need to go out of the country.

Tim:

Okay. Wait, wait, wait. So, at that time there was only one university in Cameroon?

Samuel:

Yes. Yes, doctor. There was just one university in the capital city only.

Tim:

That's amazing because that's not that long ago.

Samuel:

Yes, it's not long ago.

Tim:

As you know, I grew up in Nigeria, and even back then, which isn't again, that long ago we had so many universities and now even more.

Samuel:

There are more now. Yeah, because I studied too in Nigeria, and nearly all the states have about two or three universities-

Tim:

Yes, exactly.

Samuel:

In Nigeria. But in my country, we had just one university until after a lot of protest before they tried to open the second one in Beua for the English speaking students, and later on there are some few and private universities now coming up.

Tim:

That's, that's amazing. Okay. Wow. I just learned something.

Samuel:

Oh yeah.

Tim:

Okay. So, let's go back. You, were working as a pharmacy tech just out of high school, 18, 19, and then you wanted to go to pharmacy, but there was no option.

Samuel:

Option, yeah.

Tim:

Yeah. Okay.

Samuel:

Mm-hmm./So, while at the chemist working for several months, a young man rented the next apartment, and he set up a private medical diagnostic laboratory.

Tim:

Okay.

Samuel:

I noticed that patients were moving in and out of the building and after several months and trying to know what is going on there. So, one afternoon after work, I went into the lab and I met the owner. I introduced myself to him. I asked a lot of questions. He was happy, and he answered all my questions. He took me around the lab and he said, lab medicine is a core of medicine.

Tim:

Yeah. Which I believe Yeah.

Samuel:

And it's cool.

Tim:

It's true. Yeah.

Samuel:

So, he said, if a lab sends out a reliable test result, the doctor will prescribe the right medication.

Tim:

Exactly.

Samuel:

The pharmacy will supply the right medication.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

And the nurse will administer the right treatment to the patient.

Tim:

Exactly.

Samuel:

Yeah. So, the owner actually made me to love laboratory science. And with that interest, he, actually helped me to get admission into the School of Medical Laboratory Technology in the University of Calabar in Nigeria. And one other thing too. Laboratory medicine, the degree program is not offered in Cameroon by that time too. It was just a technician program. So I had to move to Nigeria.

Tim:

This is so baffling to me. I'm honestly, I feel like I should have known that, but this is just incredible.

Samuel:

Yeah. It's incredible.

Tim:

And, in a way it explains some other things that are beyond the scope of this conversation, but wow.

Samuel:

Yeah.

Tim:

Wow. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So tell me about going to Calabar and all that.

Samuel:

Yeah. I went to Calabar, and I was happy that I met some other Cameroonians there. So, we had a family, so I was not too lonely.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

Yeah. I did a four year program. And came out with a degree in medical laboratory technology with major in microbiology.

Tim:

Okay. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So, then you finish your training. And then what, did you start working in Nigeria or did you go back to Cameroon?

Samuel:

After my training, I went back to Cameroon, and I was lucky to have a job with the Cameroon Baptist Health Board, as a medical laboratory technologist. I worked with them for several years before moving to the United States.

Tim:

Okay. And, You said the Baptist Health Board?

Samuel:

Yes. When I was working, they had two major hospitals. The Mbingo Baptist Hospital and a Banso Baptist Hospital. But right now they have about four hospitals, and they had a lot of health centers.

Tim:

Okay. So, at some point you immigrated to the US. Tell me a little bit about where you kind of landed here and how your career expanded here. And how you started getting involved in active philanthropy because you were always interested in it, but how did you start getting involved in active philanthropy?

Samuel:

Growing up in a Christian home, I saw the support that the Presbyterian church and my parents offered to the community. They prayed for the individuals, they prayed for the community, helped people financially, spiritually, and leading people to where they can get help.

Tim:

Uhhuh. Uhhuh.

Samuel:

Their support impacted the lives of so many folks in the community.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

And I learned from my parents that helping people and serving the community can positively impact the lives of folks in the community. So, when I came up from Nigeria, I worked at the Baptist Hospital in Mbingo and while in the lab I thought the lab was well- equipped. But, when I traveled to United States of America, I had opportunity to work at Johns Hopkins Hospital.

Tim:

Okay.

Samuel:

And I noticed that the lab I worked at in Cameroon was not well-equipped as I thought. Yeah. I noticed a difference. One, you can't compare the lab where I worked in Cameroon and that of, John Hopkins, which is well-equipped with sophisticated, automated instruments.

Tim:

Yes.

Samuel:

So, at Hopkins, in the lab, I noticed that unused equipments and agents accumulate in freezers and storage rooms.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

Until they expire or become too old to use and actually they're eventually thrown away.

Tim:

Exactly, exactly.

Samuel:

I was so worried. And I met her, the administrator, and told her that the unused equipment can really be of use in my country.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

So, she said, good. If, the items can be of help to people in your country, you better have them then for the hospital to destroy them or throws them away.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

So, that is how I had the opportunity to have the equipment to ship to Cameroon.

Tim:

Let me step back a little bit. I want some, a little more detail so that, the eventual listeners understand how, cause a lot of people see things that are wasted wherever they are.

Samuel:

Mm-hmm.

Tim:

So, let's say in the US, they can see things wasted and they think, oh, you know, this could really help a person in x, right? In some other country.

Samuel:

Yeah.

Tim:

But the question is how to make that real. And so how did do that? Right. So if you, you saw materials, how did you pay for them? How did you manage the shipping? You know, how do you actually do the mechanics?

Samuel:

Yeah. When I get materials from the hospital, I put them together. And when it's actually a good load for me to ship home.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

I have, friends here, which ship containers to Cameroon.

Tim:

So, these are people who are merchants or traders of some kind?

Samuel:

Some are workers, they just like to ship things back home.

Tim:

Okay.

Samuel:

Shipping cars and-

Tim:

Okay.

Samuel:

Yeah, and other stuff. So I will contact them and just get a small space in the container. So, and I pay for that particular space.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

And it depends on the volume.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

So the smaller the shipment, the less money you pay, and the bigger the shipment, the more money you pay.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

Yeah. And there was one day that I arrived at work at Hopkins, and I noticed that we had a new chemistry analyzer.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

The old one was still working well and was about to be trashed, so I took it, kept it in the storage facility until I had the money to ship to Cameroon, and that was my first major involvement in charity.

Tim:

That's excellent. You can't see me now, but I'm smiling. This is so great. This is so great. Alright, so part of the issues that people have criticized is there's a concept of dumping.

Samuel:

Yeah.

Tim:

Where you take things from some rich country or whatever and you dump it, and you call it a donation, but it's not really a donation. So, in your case, you are from Cameroon, you grew up there, so it's a completely different thing, but how do you make sure that the items are being used there or, you know, taken advantage of and not just abandoned somewhere?

Samuel:

Yeah, that's a very good question. Yeah. First of all, when I see items or when the administrator or my manager called me. I said, do you need this? Do you need that? I'll say, okay, just keep it. Let me find out first. So I will call Cameroon. I call some of the clinics and hospitals and I find out from then I'll tell them that I have such and such equipment or reagent. I don't know if you will need them. And I ask question, I tell them the mark and I tell them how it works.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

So, yeah. So, I should not waste my money to ship something.

Tim:

Exactly[laughter].

Samuel:

I not be putting use. So, so when they confirm and tell me exactly what they want. I get the phone number and then I pass it with the phone number on it, and then I take it to any guy who is shipping or the agency shipping. So, I give them the tracking number and everything, and when it arrives to Cameroon, they just go there and pick it. Because paying the transportation here, we pay also the custom duty.

Tim:

Okay. Okay. That's great.

Samuel:

Yeah. So when the items arrive to Cameroon, you just go pick it.

Tim:

Yeah. Oh, that's wonderful. That's really wonderful. So, this kind of work requires a lot of support. So, tell me about support you've gotten from people in your life. Were there friends or spouse or others?

Samuel:

Yeah. Uh, indeed. One needs a lot of support in performing charity work and, relationships matter a lot.

Tim:

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Samuel:

So, I am proud to say that I have an amazing relationship with my wife.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

And when I told her about my willingness to help the community back home, she was so happy, and she said, I will give you all the support that you need.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

So, we worked hard to raise money to ship the items that we have to Cameroon on several occasion. We have really worked hard to save money and in several occasions we've shipped items to Cameroon. And, I have also had some logistic support from-

Tim:

Yes.

Samuel:

Other family members and from friends.

Tim:

Okay. That's great. That's great. Okay, so you were talking earlier about influencing, I forget the words you used, but not basically not just donating, but actually changing how healthcare is delivered and so forth in Cameroon. Are there other things that we haven't touched on that you want to highlight?

Samuel:

Oh, yeah. Well, the healthcare system in Cameroon is not the best.

Tim:

Yeah. Yeah, that's well said[laughter], well said.

Samuel:

Yeah. They lack a lot of equipment, and the equipment some, some hospital have are so old.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

And what I noticed while walking was that there are no laboratory or drug regulatory standards. So, people suffer a lot from drug abuse.

Tim:

Mm-hmm.

Samuel:

Patient non-adherence and adverse drug effects. Yeah, it's worse. It's now worse.

Tim:

And is it because of a lack of medication or lack of compliance, or that the quality of medication is not good? Or what do you think is the issue?

Samuel:

The quality of medication is good.

Tim:

Okay.

Samuel:

The problem is that they don't have an agency or regulatory body.

Tim:

Mm-hmm.

Samuel:

That develop policies on how to handle medications. Like, in the United States, you don't buy some particular medications, but in Cameroon can just go to the pharmacy and buy anything you want.

Tim:

Exactly.

Samuel:

So people just go, they get antibiotics, get anything that they want.

Tim:

I actually had this experience where, you know, a friend of mine actually was traveling in Asia.

Samuel:

Mm-hmm.

Tim:

And called and said, oh, do you want anything? Do you want And I was like, I was like, no, thank you. I'm okay.

Samuel:

So, uh, actually the situation in Cameroon now is now worse with the country at war.

Tim:

Yeah, yeah.

Samuel:

Some, some hospitals in the English speaking part of the country have been burnt or destroyed by the military. So, there's a lot of suffering. People are living in the bushes and, you know, life is becoming more difficult and difficult every day. So, my plan moving forward is to collaborate with other experienced healthcare professionals to advocate for policies that will bring change in the health care system system in Cameroon.

Tim:

Okay.

Samuel:

And, this is actually contingent on, uh, a stable political atmosphere.

Tim:

Yeah, yeah. Agreed. Yeah.

Samuel:

Yeah. And, what I'm planning to do in future is to set up a nonprofit organization and to have partners here in the United States and in Cameroon. So, the partners in Cameroon will be the one to do the needs assessment back home, so that we ship items that are needed and items that will serve the community.

Tim:

Okay.

Samuel:

Mm-hmm.

Tim:

Okay. Okay. That's, no, it's a great idea. Well then how will you source the items?

Samuel:

Well, when they give us a list of things that they need.

Tim:

Yeah.

Samuel:

So, the partners in the United States will solicit for donation from other hospitals.

Tim:

Okay. I see. So it's, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you'll have a network there and also a network here?

Samuel:

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tim:

Okay. That's great. That's great. We'll have to, we have to come back and interview you in a year or so, see how things are progressing. Yeah.

Samuel:

Alright. Right, doctor. That's fine.

Tim:

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much.

Samuel:

You're welcome, doctor. Thank you too for hosting.

Tim:

You're welcome. You're welcome.

Samuel:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tim:

Bye. That was Sam Pefok. Thank you for listening to the Lab Voices podcast. I am your host, Tim Amukele. To find out more about Pathologists Overseas and our projects, visit www.pathologistsoverseas.com and follow us on social media. Podcast edited and produced by Taylor Harris. Theme music by Tim Amukele.