A Life in Six Songs
A Life in Six Songs is a music-interview podcast focused on those particular songs that have a strong connection in each of our lives. These are not necessarily your favorite songs, but rather those times music was seared into your memory attached with what you were going through at the time.
Check out all the info at ALifeinSixSongs.com
So many of the discussions around music are about who the better band is or why a certain genre is not as good as another. Those discussions miss what is so fundamental about our interaction with and enjoyment of music. Here, we lead with Love, Kindness, and Curiosity, to counter the Hate, Anger, and Judgment in the world (and there is a lot of it!) We are a judgment-free zone where we do not critique our taste in music, but are focused on understanding the unique role music has played in each guest’s life.
"Don't ask me how I survived. Ask me what song I played on repeat when I thought my whole world was over."
Listen to the songs from the show! Check out the Life in Six Songs Playlist on:
Apple:
https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/a-life-in-six-songs-podcast-playlist/pl.u-kv9lq9mFNvoRK
Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4EmPAPejwNo6WwCKDeVmwU?si=a7b1957c464844f8
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Copyright Disclaimer: Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, commentary, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit or educational use tips the balance in favor of fair use. The original work played in this video has been significantly transformed for the purpose of commentary, criticism, and education.
A Life in Six Songs
Drummer Seven Antonopoulos - Healing Trauma One Song at a Time
Drummer Seven Antonopoulos takes us on a powerful journey from his unconventional childhood on the road to touring the world with acts like Vanilla Ice, Opiate for the Masses, and Channel Zero, revealing how music literally saved his life during his darkest moments.
• Growing up on the road with a professional poker-playing father exposed Seven to diverse music like Boz Scaggs’ “Lido Shuffle”
• Discovering Black Sabbath at age nine provided crucial emotional support during a time of hidden childhood trauma
• Metal and hip-hop crossover music like Anthrax and Public Enemy's "Bring the Noise" influenced Seven's drumming style and career path
• Stevie Nicks' "Edge of Seventeen" intervened during a moment of suicidal crisis after losing his friend and watching his mother's health decline
• Psychedelic experiences with ayahuasca, soundtracked by Fever Ray's "If I Had a Heart," helped process decades of unresolved trauma
• Returning to Texas following his divorce just before the pandemic lockdowns led to healing and self-reflection with Billie Eilish’s “Everything I Wanted”
Whether you're a music lover, drummer, or someone navigating your own challenging journey, Seven's story reminds us that our most meaningful connections to songs often come precisely when we need them most, not just as comfort but as guides to process our deepest pain and find our way forward.
Follow Seven on YouTube and Instagram and check out Channel Zero
WHO WE ARE
DAVID: Creator & Host @ALifeinSixSongs
Facilitator & Educator | Music-Based Healing | Musician | Curiosity with Loving Kindness
CAROLINA: Co-Host @ALifeinSixSongs
Storyteller | Professional Facilitator
RAZA: Co-Host @ALifeinSixSongs
Lawyer | Producer | Solo Project: Solamente | @razaismyname
RESOURCES & LINKS
- Liked songs from this life story? Check out A Life in Six Songs playlist on Apple Music and Spotify
- Follow A Life in Six Songs on Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube
- Are you a veteran who is struggling? Call the Veterans Crisis Line: Dial 988, then press 1.
- Having thoughts of suicide? Get Help Here
- Support our work!
- Subscribe to our YouTube channel
- Don’t keep us all to yourself! Share our podcast with your people!
- Reach out to us at alifeinsixsongspodcast@gmail.com
Copyright Disclaimer: Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, commentary, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit or educational use tips the balance in favor of fair use. The original work played in this video has been significantly transformed for the purpose of commentary, criticism, and education.
You know, there's just a lot of stuff out there where you can, sam.
Speaker 1:Harris fan, I mean Sam Harris is probably my intellectual idol at this point.
Speaker 3:Dude everybody's like yeah, Sam Harris is awesome, he's almost too good, he's really good, just would like to pause and recognize that.
Speaker 4:And if, sam Harris, if this gets back to you, we're here talking about Metallica. Everyone's like yeah, yeah, yeah. And we said sam harris, everyone was like oh yes, so sam harris, you are, you are rocking it.
Speaker 4:Hey everybody, welcome to A Life in Six Songs where, on each episode, we embark on an epic journey with our guests to find the songs that are stuck to us like audible tattoos, that tell the story of who we are and where we've been, to help us figure out where we're going. It's a life story told through six songs. I'm your host, david Reese, and I'm joined by my co-hosts, carolina and Raza.
Speaker 5:Hey there.
Speaker 4:Hi, we come to these conversations with love, kindness and curiosity to counter the prevalence of hate, anger and judgment in the world. Our guiding view, with a nod to Ted Lasso, is be curious, not judgmental. Our goal is that by listening to these stories, you can bring more love, kindness and curiosity into your own life. With that, let's go have a listen together. Our guest today is Seven Antonopoulos, a self-described white trash kid from Texas who turned to drums as a way out. As he described it in a very real way, music saved his life. Over his professional drumming career, seven has toured the world with artists as diverse as Vanilla Ice, opiate for the Masses and his current band, belgian Metal Giants, channel Zero. Seven, welcome to A Life in Six Songs.
Speaker 1:Thank you. That was an intro, I appreciate it, but yeah, I'd like to thank you all just right off the bat. Thank you so much for asking me to do this. The premise of this podcast is just really powerful and the idea behind it and David, your story that I'm familiar with, that I'm sure everyone watching is familiar with. It's a cool concept and I think it's something that's fresh and new and hasn't been done previously.
Speaker 4:Great, we appreciate that and we appreciate you coming on and sharing your story with us. We're excited to get into your story.
Speaker 1:Dive in the water's warm.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the water's warm. The water is what it is. Yeah, it's going to be just fine. We are here to help you along. And so before we actually get into your specific six songs, we like to just sort of get you know kind of a warm-up question, a little sound check, if you will, just kind of setting the stage for us. And so you know, the question is around the role music plays in our life. You as a professional musician, obviously in your professional life music is hugely important. But if you want to just kind of like tell us a little bit about the role music plays kind of in your personal life, like, how does music fit in your life? What does music do for you? How do you see music in your personal life?
Speaker 1:That's a great question For me. From childhood it was always and that's why, you know, going through these songs is going to be cathartic and amazing. Songs is going to be cathartic and amazing because even today and from you know hell I'm 50 now like there have been so many huge life experiences that music was part of it, and you hear those songs and they take you back to those different situations. But there's certain songs I'll listen to. If I'm, you know, if I have, you know if I'm having a particularly kind of anxiety filled day, you know what I mean and I'm and I'm out running around and doing stuff.
Speaker 1:There's certain songs that I can put on that kind of helped me, you know, get out of that space, um, as well as just sometimes just being happy and being content and fulfilled in the moment. You know what I mean. Like you know, cooking with my cooking, with my better half, and the dogs are under our feet and I've got, you know, the mo, you know Motown essentials on Apple music or whatever. Like it's, it's, it's, it is a huge part to your point, yeah, so.
Speaker 4:I don't want to ramble but absolutely.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, I think I think you said it well and you kind of hit those kinds of two points in the sense of, like, music seems to have that ability to either take us away from whatever we got going on it just kind of lightens the mood, changes the mood and gets us out of it or it can be that way that we can reflect on ourselves. It can help us process what we've got going on. Right, you hear a certain lyric or a certain you know, yeah, chord, progression, melody just kind of hits you and it helps you make sense of what's what you got going on. So, yeah, so thank you for uh that and getting us set. I'm gonna pass it over to carolina, who's gonna get us going with your first song.
Speaker 5:Yeah. So you talked about how music can kind of take you out of a negative space. Right, help you out Feels a little therapeutic. So for your first song, what is that song that, when you hear it, instantly transports you to a specific time or place?
Speaker 1:This one was Lido Shuffle by Boz Skaggs, which was one of my, my parents' favorite artists. Um, and I believe that this, uh, the, the period of time I'm thinking about was from the time I was probably, you know, two, three years old, until I was like five, until I went to school and, you know, never really talked about this publicly, but you know, my folks were kind of unconventional, I guess you'd say you know. So the first five years of my life, I mean, I was on the road. You know, my dad was professional poker player and pool player and and we did that and it was a lot of holiday ends and you know this particular song.
Speaker 1:I remember being in the back of my dad's Cadillac, you know in the car seat, and then I grew out of the car seat and and and it was. It was every time this song came on. I remember being like five years old, four years old, just going, wow, still a really difficult song to play, but that kind of puts me. When I hear that tune, it reminds me of like good times, I guess unconventional times, meaning that that I didn't realize that that was yeah you know it's like it's kind of like always on vacation, but not you know what I?
Speaker 4:mean it's like we're uh yeah, doing that so let's, uh, let's take a quick listen and then we'll talk a little bit more about it on the other side next stop one for the road, so good Nice.
Speaker 3:That's awesome.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's like one of those things from the outside.
Speaker 4:It's one of those things from the outside. It's one of those things from the outside, Like you said, the drumming it's not terribly like complicated, like what's going on, but just the groove of it is just the feel. Yes, just there. And if it's not, if it's not on, it's going to be not good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's really cool. I was fortunate in the sense and this is just a little side note but I was fortunate in the sense that my parents, for all their conflicted issues that all people have but extreme, they had great taste in music and whether it was boss gags, you know, my mom's favorite band was like Fleetwood Mac and we were listening to. You know Led Zeppelin and and I Billy Joel and you know just Elton John like all these. You know David Bowie, I mean, I was. This is the stuff that I, that I was kind of grew up around. So this is the stuff that I was kind of grew up around.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I think we've learned to spot themes with all of our guests and one of the things that we've spotted a lot are a lot of songs that folks remember really little in their parents' cars, and we talked about the difference between now or as kids pop in you ear pods and they're listening to their own thing. But when we were growing up like you had to listen to whatever your parents were listening to and how that just like open worlds for us just the stuff we listen to in the car yeah, and I still love listening.
Speaker 1:I mean road trips and just even in my daily life. I've always got I mean over the last few years, of course. Course, audible is cool and we're listening to a lot of books, podcasts and whatnot, but it's still the car is one of the cooler, more interesting places that music can take you somewhere, you know.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely, when you, when you think back to this time and you know you, you, you told us how you, how you know an unconventional first, first few years of life, right, staying in hotels and things like that when you think traveling, now yeah, traveling. When you think about it now, what, what, what, what feelings come up about it like do you, you know, how do you, how do you view that? That young childhood of yours?
Speaker 1:it's. It's kind of interesting because I only have my own point of reference, you know um and I try.
Speaker 1:We can never do yep, and I try, I try not to compare my life to other people's lives, or mine was better or worse or whatever it was, and my, I have a younger brother, jason. He's uh, he's two and a half years younger than me. So, um, by the time I was kind of that period of time like five-ish, you know, like that's when it was like okay, we kind of settled down, so to speak, like we, you know, we settled, lived, you know, and landed in Dallas. After a few other places, you know. But I consider myself a Texan and, um, but what, we lived multiple, multiple places from the time I was born until I was probably, yeah, like it's like seven, eight years old, I mean, I think five, six states. So, uh, I don't know if I go into that story about why we were, why we moved so much, uh, but um, let's just say it was interesting, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:That was kind of interesting. You mentioned, uh, your, your dad was a um, um, like a poker. I could, I'm imagining like a champion.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You guys had to tour, so it almost sounds like you know, for for someone who's a professional touring musician. Now you, you, you got exposed to that life, uh, you know city to city, uh type thing early on. Any comparison between that and now.
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, I mean, well, not now, I mean you travel in a different way, but but being on the road, um, when you're a kid, you know I mean it's it's Denny's and holiday Inns and you know a lot of swimming pools in the summer and you know stopping to see the Hoover Dam or you know like whatever it was. But is it similar? Yeah, I mean, I guess I've always kind of been, because we were moved around so much when I was a kid. You know law enforcement being involved, like that, you know, like give you that story at another time, I think.
Speaker 1:But but you know, living in Georgia and North Carolina and Florida and Colorado and Oklahoma and Ohio, and you know, like all these places before I was seven years old, six years old, you know, and then finally, and then ended up landing, quote unquote, like landing in a city that we're like, okay, cool, this is home now. You know. Like landing in a city that we're like, okay, cool, this is home now. You know, yeah, it makes it, it's, I don't know man, it's, it's a, it's a. It's an interesting question, cause I'm having a hard time kind of articulating feelings about it, because that's just, that's all.
Speaker 1:I, that's all I knew. So, um, uh, I never had a problem with anything else. I always wanted to travel, though I always wanted to go, and later on in my life, like you know, 20 years old, 21 years old, I was in this band from Dallas called Lone Star Trio, and it was a van and a trailer and there was three of us and one guy that would help us drive and load gear and we did that.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. I did that from like 94, 95, 96 and it was as punk rock as punk rock is, and it was some of the best times of my life too. You know what I mean. Yeah, you know, like you hear grohl talk about that and it's real. It was like those hard times, yeah, make you appreciate travel later on. You know, because in 1999, you know, I was in a signed band called hellified fun crew out of dallas. Bob zilla from damage plan and I were in that band and I remember him and I like getting on the bus, our first bus together, and I was like, oh dude, I'm 24 years old and I'm fuck, you know 25. We've made it, we're on a bus.
Speaker 5:You know, the bus versus the van bus, the bus versus the van.
Speaker 4:We don't have to take turns driving and sleep on the gear in the back of the van.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're like, what does a drum tech do? Well, you know, um. So now, later on, and just to just your point real quick, the older you get and I mean I don't have children, but um, uh, you know, I have two dogs and, uh, two dogs and my partner that I've been with for four and a half years now, but it gets tougher. I think it gets more tough the older you get to leave home. There's a couple songs in here where some of this touring stuff I think we'll come full circle on that rather than than diving in so much now, but there's that one song. There's one song where it it has has a lot to do with the commitment to touring and the commitment to playing music and the commitment to the band and kind of negating other things. You know what I mean, whether it's your marriage or your sanity or not being a borderline alcoholic, whatever it is, you know what I mean, totally For sure.
Speaker 5:So we'll get to those, but we'll move on to our next song. For now, and for your second song, what's a memorable time that you remember when you were first exposed to like a new band or an artist's music?
Speaker 1:It's interesting because it wasn't new. It was new to me and the background was all the bands I told you about. You know 70s kind of rock and progressive stuff and and you know more of the classic stuff. So let's say I think I was probably nine years old, we lived at this apartment complex in in dallas, texas, and, uh, we had a um, there was a family that lived there that my mom was friends with the mother and they there was two kids.
Speaker 1:There was a this, this guy, carrie, he, and he was our babysitter. So when I was like nine years old, you know my folks, if my mom was out working or my dad was on the road or whatever it was, you know like they could, you know he would. He was in the neighborhood, he was a neighborhood kid, he was in, he was in the metal and and I thought he was super fucking cool and and I had a crush on his younger sister, who was three years older than me, I guess, incidentally, first girl I ever kissed down by the Creek sounds, sounds, sounds realistic, right.
Speaker 1:But back to the story as far as a song that that, what song was played? Who played it? A memorable time. So yeah, I remember Kerry's like hey, I just got this on vinyl, you have to see it, and we called it a record back then. It wasn't vinyl, it was a record. And he showed me the album cover to Sabbath, bloody Sabbath, black Sabbath, right, and I was like it's the most evil. I'm like this is amazing. I'm like wow, like this is cool. And this was before I saw shout at the devil, which I thought was really fucking cool. You know the pentagram and you open it up but this was sabbath, bloody sabbath and and he and he played.
Speaker 1:He played this song for me and that opening riff, you know, and the drums were very kind of like um, kind of off the rails a little bit, but it was so heavy Like I'd never heard anything that heavy. I mean, I've, you know, I was used to foreigner and you know ELO and yes, and, and you know what I mean, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:You probably hear my dog sparking at the FedEx guy. Um, and I heard this and that song. Just like it clicked and and this is another thing that we'll touch on as far as music goes, I've I wish I was an amazing writer I'm not, but but I've always the written word has always been. I actually learned to read fairly early and comic books were a huge part of my brother and I's life. You know, my brother battled dyslexia and comic books basically helped him through that time, and for me as well. So lyrics have always been just not the entire song, but, man, when you can dive into a certain chorus or a verse or just a phrase sometimes I'll have sometimes just random lyrics will just pop in my head. You know what I mean. So the line in that song where it says, yeah, nobody will ever let you know when you ask the reasons why, they just tell you that you're on your own, fill your head all full of lies, and I remember being nine years old going. That's true.
Speaker 1:That's fucking true. I mean, I'm like, I'm like Ozzy Osbourne is speaking to me personally, right, and my, you know, had a pretty I don't want to say tumultuous, but you know, had a childhood that wasn't, you know, as normal as it could have been. So that song really still to this day speaks to me.
Speaker 4:you know, let's take a quick listen, but you don't want to know.
Speaker 2:Nobody will ever let you know. When you ask the reasons why, they just tell you that you're on your own. Fill your head all full of lies Such an amazing song.
Speaker 1:So that was the first time I'd heard real metal, you know. And the following year I discovered Motley Crue and Iron Maiden and Judas Priest and went down the rabbit hole Nice. As far as that goes, you know, yeah, yeah, but that's go ahead.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was going to say, like you know, getting the songs ready for this. That's go ahead. Yeah, I was gonna say, like you know, getting the songs ready for this. And you know I, I remember my, my family was, you know, uh, very big into music and we had our record chess. And I remember exactly like you're saying, when you see the front of the record, I remember seeing like the kiss album and even the, the meatloaf bat out of hell, like not necessarily the music, but the album, it's this, like you know, just, and those, those albums at that time, metal and everything just over the top with artwork and you're like the artwork yeah, and it's just like, wow, like I think about you know in in, you know the past 20 years or whatever, even like you know and as, as we were in teenage years and stuff, you know two live crew and whatever and people were talking about like, oh, the music's corrupt in the youth.
Speaker 4:I think back to the 70s and was this coming out? People must have lost their mind, right, like like, yeah, ozzy, like and and I mean it's been talked about that way, but people you know, like ozzy must have been like the actual devil in people's eyes.
Speaker 4:Right, like this is like the antichrist coming to be and stuff, um, yeah, but yeah just so so powerful and, like you said, I think it's so good too, because it's like when people kind of criticize art in that way, they're focusing on kind of the wrong things. Because look at the lyric you pulled out, right, that spoke to you at nine years old. That's yeah, that's deep shit. Right, that's philosophical heavy stuff. And you got it at nine, right, yeah, um, and so if someone wanted to just be like, don't listen to that, it's the devil's music or something like that, it's like man, what a missed opportunity to actually like talk to someone at nine years old and have them talk through these thoughts and ideas that they're they're having, yeah, well, and I mean not to go down this, this rabbit hole, but I mean, especially in the U?
Speaker 1:S, I think that there's a there's a tendency for real religiosity, and let's just call a spade a spade. I mean, you know, like legit traditional Christian fundamentalist vibe of, you know, the satanic panic of the eighties, that was real, right, a lot of people's lives, you know the West Memphis three, that was real, you know, ruined those kids lives because they listened to metal. Yeah, and I've always had a pretty aggressive disdain for religion in general and it's I, you know, I think it's a force for evil in the world, but that's just me. What do I know? Um, but, but, but the demonization of music and has has always been part of it. And I guess for some people, you know, looking at that iron maiden cover or the kiss of life too, you know what I mean. Like you see that gatefold and you just go, oh my God, that's amazing, that's part of it. But I mean, they said the same thing about the Beatles. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Right Elvis.
Speaker 1:Elvis was satanic because he did the little shimmy or whatever.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah 100%.
Speaker 1:Come on, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, but I agree.
Speaker 5:Yeah, down that rabbit hole, but but um, yeah, I agree, yeah, but I think the way you kind of the, the way you link this song to your childhood, I think is really powerful, particularly with that lyric. Like, as a kid, we we have so many questions about life and why and you know, the adults in our lives don't always give us the answers right they give us what's comfortable for them or what they think we need to hear, like you know, whatever.
Speaker 5:But so then you're sort of left to like make sense of the world as a kid and so when music can kind of help, you feel like you're not the only one trying to make sense of stuff. That's super powerful.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and I mean here's, here's, this will give you a little bit more insight, and I mean, I guess I think I feel pretty comfortable now speaking about this publicly, but, um, that song was like later on, uh, in the year, uh, my ninth year, or whatever, and earlier in that year it's uh, you know, it was a victim of sexual abuse and it was a kid in the neighborhood. And and, uh, it was a kid in the neighborhood and it was never told anybody. You know what I mean? Everything. That's why I'm 50 and you know my midlife crisis was actually going to therapy. Me and David can relate to that, and Carolina as well. We can all relate to that unresolved trauma that affects you as an as an adult. But I remember that lyric specifically because all that was really fresh, right and and didn't speak to anybody about it, didn't mention it to my parents, to anybody at school, didn't trust anybody. I was just like just carrying this fucking bag of bricks that I carried for 40 years.
Speaker 2:You know what.
Speaker 1:I mean, and I and that song, I like that part. You know they just tell you that you're on your own, okay, and I guess I am. You know, at least when it came to that, the guilt, the shame, everything associated with it, at least when it came to that, the guilt, the shame, everything associated with it. So not to get too emotionally heavy on y'all, but when I hear that song today I don't think about the abuse but I think about how it gave me a, I don't know, I'd say like a lifeline, like a way to vent.
Speaker 1:You know what I'd say like a lifeline, like a way to vent you know what I mean. Almost a way to kind of like not process it, because as a kid you don't Sure.
Speaker 5:You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean, you don't know.
Speaker 5:Yeah, sometimes music I know for me like you don't know this artist, you're not like in the room with them, but somehow you like, feel, seen, like this person gets me or or in some way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can feel that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to thank you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, deep breath.
Speaker 1:I'm good. It's good, it's weird. It's weird. It's weird, like talking about it a little bit, but it's part of the process. You know what I mean. And if it, helps anybody?
Speaker 5:Sorry, raza, a lesson David and I have learned recently. And if you watch David's most recent episode, he talks about going to a place in Mexico to kind of deal with a lot of this trauma. I went as well.
Speaker 1:That's amazing Because we get to that in here too.
Speaker 5:Oh great, but yeah this idea that in here too, oh great, um, but yeah, this idea that pain demands to be felt, right.
Speaker 1:Even if it's 40 years later. Hmm, that's a great way to put that. I'm going to steal that. That's cool, you can have it.
Speaker 5:It demands to be.
Speaker 1:I mean it demands to be heard and seen. Yeah, yeah, or it gets really heavy, too heavy yeah well and that's the shadow work right, like when we're, when we're in therapy and we're and we're doing that, we're confronting all that you know, yeah now you mentioned carrying the stuff for going on 40 years, uh yeah it reminds me of the, the theme of the new Metallica record 72 Seasons.
Speaker 3:I think there's a. There's a quote from from from Hetfield, something along the lines of a lot of your adulthood is working out shit from your childhood, making sense of it, making sense of what happened, yeah, and processing it and then learning to move forward with it.
Speaker 1:Well, and now it's a lot easier. You know, we're kind of at least Raza, I think you're a few years younger than me and David but we can talk about mental health, we can talk about stuff now. You know what I mean. I know Carolina's young, but we can talk about things in a different way. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, we can actually talk about things in a different way. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, when we can actually talk about it
Speaker 1:you weren't talking about this stuff at all. No at all, you know what I mean yeah, yeah, and so now it's, it's, it's, it's accepted, and and and and you know it and and and and you know it takes a help so many other people, right?
Speaker 4:because it's that feeling of when you experience trauma, whatever kind of trauma it is, you feel like one, like you said, the shame, there's something wrong with you, right, yeah, and have those feelings of guilt and shame um, I must have done something to deserve whatever happened, um.
Speaker 4:But you also feel like you are, as the song says, you're on your own, and you're and not just on your own in the sense of you got to deal with it on your own, but you feel on your own in the sense of I must be the only one that this happened to, right, and so part of sharing about it is just that fact of I know within the veteran community and ptsd and talking about it, just when you hear other people share it that they're struggling with these things, it's just like it takes a little bit of the weight off you, because you're like, oh, it's not just me, it's not something I did, it's not something uniquely wrong with me that I can't move past whatever happened or whatever it was, like this is something that's that's there. Yeah, yeah, so I happened, or whatever it was. Like this is something that's, that's there. Um, yeah, yeah. So I just appreciate you sharing and speaking to it, cause it's that's huge.
Speaker 1:Well, you inspired me when I watched your episode as well. It's like you know, and I've, and I've heard, I've, you know, I've seen a few different episodes um, where people just rip off the bandaid and they put it out there, and if it helps somebody, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean. If it helps somebody and yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's why I appreciate you coming on and sharing Cause that was the whole idea with getting this show going. Was that kind of idea Like, hey, I love music, I love talking about music. It seems important in people's lives, but it seems like it. It's a. It's a way we can get talking about some of these things that are below the surface, that we normally wouldn't talk about, right, especially you know, you as a professional musician, most of the interviews you're going to do, they're not going to be diving into that, right, they're going to be like you know what was going on in the last tour. How'd you write this?
Speaker 5:new album you know these types of things, which is fine fine Cause.
Speaker 4:that's what they're about that's that industry and that's what they want to know, right? But I just was like this is a way where we can start, you know, kind of having some of these conversations and putting some of these things out in the open without it being therapy, right? Just we're just talking about music, but we're sharing these.
Speaker 1:You know personal, personal stories, so yeah, and I mean these, you know, personal, personal stories. So yeah, yeah, and, and just, I mean the fact that podcasts are so popular now, like it's yeah, you know mainstream media. It is what it is, but you know, I'm getting more information from here and interesting conversations that y'all have or that rogan has or that. Uh, I love chris. You know Modern Wisdom. His podcast is great. Diary of a CEO is great.
Speaker 2:You know I'm a huge Sam Harris fan.
Speaker 1:I mean Sam Harris is probably my intellectual idol at this point Dude.
Speaker 4:Everybody's like oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Sam Harris. Sam Harris is awesome.
Speaker 1:He's almost too good he's really good.
Speaker 4:I just would like to pause and recognize that. And if, sam Harris, if this gets back to you, we're here talking about Metallica, ozzy Osbourne, everyone's like yeah, yeah, yeah. And we said Sam Harris, and everyone was like oh yes, so Sam Harris, you are rocking it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's true. I mean, you can get so much more out of at least me personally, and I'm sure it's like this for a lot of people you get so much more out of a real conversation. We're just having a real conversation. It doesn't matter if it's 30 minutes or three hours, and there's an authenticity to it, there's a transparency to it and it's not, you know, two minute sound bites and and, uh, you know reading off the teleprompter or or or, hitting your talking points that you're.
Speaker 1:You know your marketing manager says you need to hit which we do you know, but that's that's when you're on tour and that's when you're promoting a record or whatever. You know yeah.
Speaker 5:All right, cool, let's move on to your next song, right?
Speaker 4:Just full disclosure. Carolina and I are actually the same age, but we get that all the time. So you're not.
Speaker 1:No, you're not off I thought she was at least five years younger.
Speaker 4:No, six months younger, that's it.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, you know what? My uh dude wendy's actually 11 days older than me, which is amazing. So I'm like, hey, you like younger guys. She's like 11 days older than me, which is amazing. So I'm like, hey, you like younger guys, she's like 11 days Really. Robin the Cradle oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 5:Anyway, I love that you felt the need to clarify that too, and that cracks me up.
Speaker 4:It's just one of those funny things, because I get it. You know I look old and wizened and weird, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's real man.
Speaker 5:Look at that yeah, yeah, yeah, um, all right okay so for your next song, for your next song? Um, what is a song that opened you up to an entirely new perspective well this.
Speaker 1:That perspective led me down, like the career path that I took, stylistically, musically, grew up a metalhead, um, and obviously the. The music from my childhood was, you know, classic rock, I guess, let's say genre wise, um. And on a side note, my mom would also play a lot of motown around the house sometimes. That's why I still still have an affinity for some of those really mid to late 60s Motown artists. But anyway, 1991, I think, was the original recording and release, and so I must have been 17, I guess. So the collaboration between Anthrax and Public Enemy I was already a huge Anthrax fan. So I mean, we all grew up with the big four.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, it's like you know Metallica, neganath, and you know Anthrax and Slayer, and I can honestly say that without those four drummers I probably wouldn't have went down the path that I did. But Charlie Benante has always been a really big influence on me and he's an amazing person as well and I've got to meet him a couple of times. I don't know him well, but I've met him. He's super cool.
Speaker 1:But this song they did a collaboration with Public Enemy and it was the first time that I had heard heavy music with hip hop and I know that David had an NWA song and then that song kind of led me into a space where I was like, well, man, rap is kind of cool, it's punk rock in a weird way, because they're talking about shit that nobody's talking about and they're, they're talking like with a grit and an authority and uh and an authenticity that that wasn't pop tunes, I mean, they're talking about their lives, you know just happens to be a bunch of you know like crazy shit happening, um, but and and public enemies specifically, uh, you know, like they always they, they always had that political slant to it, yeah, and uh, flavor of flavor was amazing and, chuck, these lyrics were just out of control. Um and so this song kind of bring the noise, yeah, with Public Enemy and Anthrax. It opened up my mind to. I'm like you can like Charlie's doing all this cool double kick stuff over a rapper.
Speaker 2:Like how is that even happening? Like I've never heard anything that cool before.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Let's take a listen.
Speaker 1:Melt your brain. Yeah, let's melt a listen. Melt your brain.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, let's melt our brains all over again.
Speaker 2:Let's do it war. We got to get them straight. Come on now. They're gonna have to wait till we get it right. Radio stations like western.
Speaker 4:They're black, as they call us a black, but we'll see you still, still so good like it's not like yeah, it doesn't sound like you're like, you put it on and you're like oh yeah, that's dated, or that sounds oh, that was good at the time, but I don't think I'd pull it out. No, it's just as amazing now. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Without that song, nu metal doesn't exist. Yeah, right In my opinion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, well, I know this is for Rage Against the Machine, this for anything, that was the next iteration Dude this.
Speaker 1:You got corn, you got Limp Bizkit, you got Deftones, you got. You know what I mean. You got. You got everything like all that kind of stuff where you could implement those hip hop sensibilities, rap sensibilities into heavier music.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and incidentally, you'll appreciate this, david, cause you're a Rush fan but this last January and the January previous, uh, we do a benefit um to Neil, for for Neil Pert, uh, his, his, uh, he has a foundation set up through Cedar Sinai for um, the condition that he suffered from, the neuroblastoma, and so every year we do this, we do this um, it's like a benefit show. A hundred percent of the proceeds go to that charity. And so this last year it was myself, jason Bittner from Shadows Fall Overkill, mike Portnoy amazing, you know, just such a sweetheart of a guy has been so kind to me over my career and and given me a lot of great advice. But anyway, frankie Bello from anthrax was actually at the last two and and it was cool man Talking to him about like, like dude among the living, bro, come on, like you know, and and his bass playing was amazing and such a kind soul and but anyway, that's. I thought I'd throw that in there because the fact that this was so influential and then, later on in life, actually being able to play on the same stage with, with, with, with someone you grew up, um, listening to and who kind of helped mold you into the musician that you are. Um, and another little side thing was when I was playing for Vanilla Ice, we did a song on the Bipolar record. This record was called Bipolar. It was recorded in Dallas, texas, but it was a collaboration between Chuck D and Rob, and a lot of people haven't heard this song. But the song is called Elvis Killed Kennedy. You can probably find it on YouTube, but it's.
Speaker 1:Professor Griff, before he was excommunicated, was actually in the studio and it was amazing. I was like, oh my God, he's sitting behind the board and the drum tracks had already been programmed and he's like I want live drums on this son. I'm like fuck, I got you, man, Like I'm in, you know, and I and I, and I mean I had my you know metal set up, but I just set up this, you know, just a kick, a snare, you know floor tom, a couple of crashes and a hat, and just kind of went for it floor tom, a couple crashes and a hat, and just kind of went for it and uh, and, and I remember thinking like holy shit, did I really just track a song with fucking chuck d like wow and yeah and and again, like later on in life you know what I mean like I was probably five years old, 26 years old I didn't realize that I would ever, when I was listening to you know, bring the noise in my bedroom on my jam box, on cassette, you know, then I would be in a studio with the guy. So life is weird sometimes.
Speaker 5:Right those like full circle moments.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, they're cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, they, they're pretty cool. I'll tell you one thing I mean, bringing you on the show is definitely a full circle moment for me.
Speaker 2:so, uh, and it goes back to the whole vanilla ice um, uh, you know stint that you have because that's I.
Speaker 3:That's where I first heard about you as a drummer. Where did we meet, dude, we've never met. It was instagram, it was a shot in the dark and and and I, I've I've written songs. You know, imagining what you, as a drummer, would play on those songs. I mean the showmanship, the um, like the bottom set up and I don't want to go down the nerdy, you know rabbit hole, but but yeah's awesome and it goes back to watching what you were doing with Rob. Yeah, just very basic grooves A lot of breakbeats.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah yeah, just power behind it, and then mixing the DJ stuff in there as well, and then following your career, you know, there on out. So, yeah, no, it's, this is awesome, cool.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it. And what was cool with that with, with playing with with rob, was that that the drums were a focal point and that was by design, you know. And we, yeah, we had a dj and, yeah, there were, there was backing tracks, but man, I was dude, my riser was always at the front of the stage. Rob and I were always very kind of in sync and and and animated together. You know, it was almost like having you know. I mean, I was there to back him up. That's my job as a drummer is to back up my, you know, the front man. But but there was a lot of times where we were just had this kind of symbiotic thing and and, and it was a lot going on on stage and it takes a very kind of unique front man singer to be comfortable with a drummer. That's going to demand attention, so to speak.
Speaker 5:You know what I mean, Because that's where. That's where all this shit comes from.
Speaker 1:That's where all this shit comes from. It's like us as drummers and you know what I mean, Because that's where. That's where all this shit comes from. That's where all this shit comes from. It's like us as drummers, and you know all the drummers that I grew up. You know a lot of the drummers that I grew up listening to and watching. You know whether it's Tommy Lee, Randy Castillo, Tommy Aldridge. You know vicky fox. You know like I used to watch, like like not so much musically but just for for, for the way he approached stylistically behind the kit, bloss elias as well, like um and so uh, yeah, that's that's kind of yeah, good stuff.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it's that thing too, and, like you know all of these different stories of like meeting our heroes, so to speak, or meeting people we were looked up to and things, and then you realize they're just people that were doing their thing right and so, like, at the end of the day, we're all just human beings doing our thing. I love this. It's an old clip back mtv like uh, it's henry rollins and he's sitting there on like the 120 minute stage or headbangers ball stage or something like that, just kind of sitting there and he he's got.
Speaker 4:He says this thing about you know, don't be in awe of your heroes, be inspired by them. Yeah right, you know in that way of like, don't just be like, oh my god, they're gods, but you know, like, be inspired by them. Yeah Right, you know in that way of like, don't just be like, oh my God, they're gods, but you know like, be inspired. They're just people that are following their stuff and doing their thing. So do yours too. And I think that's kind of the message in here is just do your thing. And yeah, you meet people along the way.
Speaker 5:You never know what other cool shit together. You never know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Carolina reminds me of one of my favorite Terrence McKenna quotes. After he, you know, did DMT, he was like don't give in to astonishment, it's just kind of like along the same kind of lines, yeah.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, and everybody's going to have to go Google who Terrence McKenna was. But yeah, yes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and in a little bit of music trivia before we move, because I know Carolina is going to be like next song.
Speaker 2:Keeping us honest. I love it.
Speaker 4:In preparing this episode and pulling up the anthrax and getting the clip of Bring the Noise. This isn't my interview, but a big song for me was Anthrax the man right.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:And that and that came out a couple of years before bring the noise and I remember I had the cassette single of it and as I was pulling up I just happened to notice on that single um, they have a cover of Sabbath bloody Sabbath on there, yeah.
Speaker 4:So, bringing this kind of full circle of the previous song. Yeah, there it is the the black sabbath anthrax connection, which is funny because when I was getting the black sabbath song together I was like I felt very connected to it, but it was more because of the anthrax cover of it that I remember because I was, I wore that cassette out, right, so just kind of that, that cool thing again uh, the inspiration and stuff of the people before us and the people after us.
Speaker 4:Right, you're being inspired by anthrax, anthrax being inspired by Black Sabbath, and you know full circle idea of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, A hundred percent. The world is tiny and that's a great cover. More people should hear that version, you know? Yeah, go check it out.
Speaker 4:Nice.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 5:Go ahead.
Speaker 4:Yeah, before I get fired from my own show.
Speaker 5:All right, so for your next song, um moving to like that sort of healing, therapeutic quality of music in our lives. What's a song that helped you through a difficult time or situation?
Speaker 1:through a difficult time or situation. Okay, I guess we're going to go down this thing. Okay, so the song I picked for that question was a Stevie Nicks song, edge of 17, which is a weird which a lot of people would probably think. How is that emotionally significant? I mean, it's a pop song, it's a pop rock song, it's from the 70s, it's. But there's some lyrics in there, um, that that in the moment were really profound, you know, um, and we going to have to dive into like I don't know shit. That's never fun to talk about, and especially admitting in public that um could be, you know, kind of tough Um, but you know I'll throw this out there. I've been in therapy for 10 months and so, um, I'm to the point now, um, through through that process of like shadow work, edmr, having an amazing therapist, that, um, I can talk about this kind of shit and and hopefully, you know, know, maybe it'll help somebody else.
Speaker 1:But uh so the story is that in 2000 2001 I had already been in vanilla ice, um, for since 99 right, it's a few years touring, touring my ass off, and it was a lot of. We would do bus tours occasionally, but it was a lot of fly dates and Bob Zilla and I were roommates with this friend of ours, ren Massengill, and man, it's just a crazy time, but it was that August. It was really weird. I had been kind of back and forth with a couple of different girlfriends and I've always had issues with with I say issues, but you know, jumping from one bad relationship to another to another and never being able to actually be a good team member or a good boyfriend or and I can admit that now like fucking worst boyfriend ever, right, like, but just cut to the chase.
Speaker 1:My mom, who battled her own demons her whole life and had her own childhood drama and, uh, you know, addiction and alcoholism and all these things. So she had a stroke at 54, which is four years older than I am now, which is kind of bizarre to think and, um, that was really that. That was weird. Like it was the women that raised my brother and I wasn't there anymore, and so she was, um, she was in ICU for four weeks and, um, she flatlined twice and because she was, I guess let's say just irresponsible or whatever, didn't have a DNR, didn't have a living will, didn't have a will and testament, had fucking nothing right. So everything kind of fell on me, which I'm their oldest son. I get that, that's my thing, but I still didn't have any say. Do you know what I mean? And so you're a kid, you know, 26, 27 years old, and I'm trying to deal with this and my brother and I are trying to deal with it together. My dad wasn't really in the picture, uh, on that situation and uh, I just remember that I'm like, okay, I can get through this, you know what I mean Like like, we're going to get mom, like you know, through it.
Speaker 1:But a couple of weeks into this entire process, um it in August, one of my best friends I have his face tattooed on my leg but this guy, dave Williams, um, from Dallas, texas. He was a senior in a band called drowning pool and he passed and he was on the he they were on Ausfest and they found him in his bunk in Manassas, virginia. You know their record had just went platinum, double platinum like they were on top of the world. But he's a buddy of mine and him and I he was one of the first people that I actually had experimented with MDMA and actually being vulnerable in front of another guy was something new and he was a close friend and I loved him. I mean, I still do. But when he passed it was and the weird thing was I was with him the week before, like I flew, like there was a there was a vanilla ice tour that had like we were in boston and I talked to him that day I was at the airport. He's like what's up, son? I'm like, dude, I'm flying home, I'm at logan and he's like dude, come to atlanta, jump on the bus, you know, whatever it is. I ended up riding with the old nino actually on that for a few days, but me and Dave got to hang out and Mike Luce and all the Drown and Pull boys.
Speaker 1:So when he passed it was kind of like just a gut punch after everything that had happened with my mom. I don't know, man. It's hard to describe how and why depression hits us and I know that all four of us on this screen can, can relate. Now a lot of people listening can relate. You don't know, like I don't know why or or or how all that happened. But a couple of years earlier I'd had a, a close friend, um, on a live himself and and I had just known a few of these people that I'm just like, fuck man, is there something in the water or is this just? This is just what life is. Sometimes you catch your chips and you just don't know.
Speaker 1:But there was a situation I had. I had left the hospital, my mom had flatlined go blue, and then they brought her back and I'm like just, can you just fucking let her go? I remember screaming at the fucking neurologist and they called. They were going to call security on my brother, because I mean, you know my brother at the time. Well, he's still, you know, six, one, two hundred pounds, benches, 400 gives zero fucks, right, right. And we're sitting there like what do you mean? I don't have, I didn't have a say because she didn't have a dnr. So they, they're like you know, they Right, right it. Um. For those of y'all who haven't been in therapy, you don't think you're really gonna do it. But if you got in a plane wreck, if you, you know what I mean, like, yeah, probably wouldn't, probably wouldn't care so much. Do you know what I mean? So maybe you, you engage in risky behaviors, maybe you, uh, maybe you're at the skate, you know, at the skate ramp and and stupid shit, or maybe you're.
Speaker 4:You know, what.
Speaker 2:I mean.
Speaker 5:Experimenting with drugs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all those things. I just remember driving down Walnut Hill and I left the hospital and I had that car I had at the time I was hey, it's the 90s, what do you want? Right?
Speaker 1:I had a 240SX gold pirelli tires it's terrible I bought it off a buddy of mine and he had the earl shive like gold flake. It was more like almost a, like a yellowish gold, right, it's kind of yeah, yeah, but that thing was quick. And I remember driving down and and and I was like you know what man this is, maybe, maybe, maybe I'm not going to, maybe I don't fucking need to ever got to that point, you know, but I was having problems in a lot of my relationships, not just with girls, but a couple of friendships that were struggling and uh, and again, like you said David, like you feel alone, you feel like there's nobody, like nobody could possibly fucking know what you're talking about, or the people that do have already unalived themselves. Right, you know. And then my but you know, like I said Dave, you know, dave was one of my, one of my friends that I could confide in, that I can talk to and be like man I I do. I don't feel right, like this is, is this, is this what it is? You know what I mean and we would listen to music. You know what I mean and we would, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I remember driving down Walnut Hill in that Nissan, thinking man, I could, just that, you know, I'm doing like 70 in a 45. I'm like, dude, I could just do this. There's a semi right there. And as these thoughts are going through your head and it wasn't just ideation, it was like I was like I could do this right now. And you know, the mind is strange, like when you're, you know you go to, you know pick up a cup or something, you're like, okay, okay, I'm thinking about that, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it and and in that moment I felt that I felt that like I could just, and the radio was on and this song came on the radio and, uh, and, and it did something, I don't know know it was. It was the lyrics, I think, but it was also. I mean just, it's very haunting, like this song in particular, I think, is very haunting, and I have memories of being a kid hearing it, cause my mom was a huge Stevie Nicks fan, especially her first solo record.
Speaker 1:But I remember those lyrics and I was just like man, I don't want to, I still got shit to do you know, and I remember just pulling over and pulling into a parking lot it's like a seven, 11 or something and just just parking and just just turning it up and listening to the rest of the song and that song literally saved my life. Yeah, you know that lyric of like. In a way that is my own. I begin again. You know it was kind of like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:It's weird, heavy, let's take a listen to this song and, uh, we'll talk some more after.
Speaker 2:On the other side and the days go by Like a strand in the wind and the web. That is long. I begin again.
Speaker 3:Said to my friend Everything sucks, nothing else matters. Fuck, fuck, great song.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know, man. Again, in that moment it was like those lyrics were speaking to me directly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, we say Absolutely.
Speaker 5:We say often here we don't pick the song. Always the song picks us, yeah, and it feels like that in always the song picks us, yeah, and it feels like that in that moment, doesn't it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it was kind of like why was that on the radio 97.1. In Dallas, texas, the Eagle. You know what I mean. I remember the station, I remember the street I was driving on. I remember I could visualize. You know, yeah, I was wearing board shorts and a you know a sleeveless Slayer shirt. I just left the hospital, right, yeah, I mean all those things are like etched into your yeah, but um, yeah, so I can thank Stevie Nicks, I'm sitting in front of y'all, yeah.
Speaker 4:For real.
Speaker 1:And I think it's.
Speaker 4:I mean, first off, thank you for again sharing um that, sharing that is tough to talk about. As someone who's had to talk about it myself, yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4:It's a challenge to say it out loud, even if you know it inside. It's a challenge to say the words out loud of yes, I had this thought and it was more than just an imagination of like well, yeah, if the plane crashed it'd be fine. It was more of like no, I was close, you know, and I was, was ready to do it. Um, yeah, that's, that's tough to say, um, but it's so important for others to hear it because the more people share it, the more of us can be aware of what it actually feels like. Right, because I think there's a lot of denial in it.
Speaker 4:When, like you said, you talked about kind of suicidal ideation and what it is and kind of how it functions, and I remember for the longest time, just for me, people would ask me like are you having suicidal thoughts? Are you having thoughts of suicide? And I was like no, because, like you said, I wasn't like like planning to do something or whatever, but I was constantly thinking about it. And so once I realized that that's that's what it means, that's what it means to have thoughts of suicide, you're like oh, okay, that's different.
Speaker 4:And so the the just, the more we can share about this and what it looks like, what it feels like, which you did such a you know, not that it was a performance that you were trying to do, but just the way you shared it. You shared it so authentically, beautifully and raw that it just so captures what it feels like. It just so captures what it feels like and I can guarantee other people that are going to hear it are. You know your story and sharing it is going to be the Stevie Nicks for them. Right, that's going to help them. I hope.
Speaker 1:I mean I hope, and there's been so many friends and situations that just you know, you just go, man. I just wish you knew, you know, that there was at least somebody cared, somebody gives a fuck, you know, and that there is help, and that tomorrow's you know it's cliche Tomorrow's another day, I mean, right, I get it. You know there's a lot of people that are like my life's not worth living. Fuck this, right, Um, but um, yeah, man, it's to your, but um, yeah, man, it's to your. To your previous point too, that that there's just speaking about it being open, about it being able to be vulnerable in that way helps at least for me it's helping growth and and being able to just kind of move past.
Speaker 5:You know, eventually, Right, and it can take the weight off of it after you say yeah yeah, and I think something that's so important about you sharing your story, david, sharing his story.
Speaker 5:I've, you know, shared my story like folks that have felt a certain way. I didn't share suicidal ideation stuff on my episode necessarily, but I've I've had very low points where I've shared my story, folks that have felt a certain way. I didn't share suicidal ideation stuff on my episode necessarily, but I've had very low points where I've thought about it.
Speaker 5:It looks different for everybody and I think people sometimes have this idea of what a suicidal ideation must look like, either from a movie or from interpretation. But for some people it it can just feel like I'm so tired, if I could, just, if I could just rest. And you don't, you're not actively saying I want to die, you're just like I'm just so tired If I, if I could just not do this anymore, or if I could, just, you know, and so it. The more different stories we share from different humans and how it looks like for them, the more other people could be like oh wait, that thought, is it just me? Maybe that thought's not the healthiest thought. Like, maybe I should talk to somebody, you know, that helps in that way yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah I I agree it's it's all, it's all positive.
Speaker 1:Now I mean, this is growth, it's it's. It's it's support, it's it's the fact that there's if listening to a song or confiding in a, you know, in a, in a friend or a family member or whatever, whatever it is, or listening to a fucking podcast, you know whatever gets you to kind of understand that there is help and that there's, it's not that the shame and the guilt, like I mean that's part of it. You can't just will somebody into being better. You know, I get that.
Speaker 2:It's like telling an addict well, just fucking stop.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean? Like, how many people, how many people do we know that you just go, like it's what it is. You know what I mean. They call that when my therapist call it radical acceptance. Yeah, you just go, okay.
Speaker 1:But inspiration is a big, is a big one, I think, is a big one. I think, and again, for me, lyrics can be very, very powerful and almost a form of it's like because you can listen to songs over and over again. It's like sometimes these lyrics, or even the riff or whatever it is for me, um will, will totally just get me out of the negative headspace on it. You know what I mean. And there's a couple of guys like like you know what I mean, like for me and people with people listen to this music sometimes, and especially when it comes to metal. David, like metal or heavier music in general.
Speaker 1:But, man, there's been plenty of times where I was not in a good spot and I would, you know, sit and maybe at my computer or just with headphones and listen to, like cory taylor, slipknot, and people think they're just a hardcore grind.
Speaker 1:You know metal band, you know they're crazy, they're from iowa, but dude, arguably the most prolific songwriter, lyricist of my generation, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, he's the way that guy can articulate emotion and feeling and and especially and he's my friend, you know, I love him, but it's it's like a lot of his lyrics have helped me through some, some dark times as well and, um, you know, like over the last say, 10 years or whatever, I really dig, I really dig. Uh, you know the these, everything that we're talking about dealing with depression, dealing with whether it's you know, just just issues that feel unsurmountable, like this insurmountable fucking task. And I'm a fan of that band, I'm a fan of him, um, and I think that that these kind of these kind of um like we need those kind of songwriters, we need more. Like I said, I wish I was a writer. You know what I mean, but I, you know I I hit shit with sticks for money, so that's that's kind of where I'm at well, I think in your own way you help the words come to life right If they just sit written right.
Speaker 5:It's performing those lyrics in a way that hits people and that takes a collaborative even with sticks.
Speaker 2:It's the Carolina with the philosophical hitting the nail on the head there.
Speaker 3:You're absolutely right.
Speaker 5:We love that. Every so often I get a cool.
Speaker 4:It's the danger of being a Rush fan and a Neil Peart fan, because there you have an amazing drummer who's also an amazing lyricist, right. So it makes us all not content to just be a drummer.
Speaker 1:Man, you know what? To me, to just be a drummer, yeah man, you know what? To me, it, just just as a side note, um, the first time I heard that lyric, um, his mind is not for rent to any God or government. I think that is like so like to like. That is more relevant today than it is when he wrote it. I'm like, dude, we are resisting theocratic autocracy here. Neil Peart was man, that guy was Wow. But that lyric you know the one I'm talking about too.
Speaker 5:I say it all the time, because he died right before. Like he missed the pandemic. He missed right. Like what would he have said? About two months before the 2020 to today Like you know, miss his ability to write, cause he's really missed epic four years on this planet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that's always sad, you know, when you're heroes, you know and nobody knows again. And and all three of us sorry I just hit the mic, but all four of us here can relate, like when you lose people that are, that are so influential and prolific, like Chris Cornell, like Chester Bennington, um, you go like, well, man, how, how did that happen? You know, like, and it's, it's what we're talking about, this is all, this is this, is it? You know?
Speaker 1:this is it, you're like that guy had everything. It's like, well, maybe not, maybe he didn't you know, maybe he couldn't, right, you know, and they say that you know and people you know.
Speaker 3:it's a work in progress, I think, for all of us you know, as fans of music, um, we have this like ongoing love hate relationship with, with the people who we look up to and are inspired by. And then also, you know some of the, the ones that don't make it. You're like fuck why? You know, and at the same time you also think, my God, I feel terrible because the shit that they must be going through is just, it's so good and when they're around and and and putting this beautiful art, art out there for us to appreciate. And then the ones that don't make it. You know your Kurt Cobain's, your, you know Chester Bennington's, your Chris Cornell's, it's, it's, it's good and terrible at the same time. But that's art and that's life, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just such a cliche at this point. You know I mean it really is. You know I mean we were speaking about Slipknot. You know what I mean. Paul Gray, it's like Joey Jordison, like friends, brothers. You know We've lost so many prolific and powerful and amazing people. Who knows if, who knows if it's, if it's worse now than it was in the seventies? I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 4:I think it's a constant. I was just about to ask you like being in the industry an industry that you know has such a large proportion of these stories, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know again, not you're. You're not having to make a claim on the entire industry in any way. I'm just asking your viewpoint. What, what, what do you think is is? Is driving that, contributing to it, making it like why is the cliche there? Right, Cause the cliche is because it's prevalent, right, Is it? Well, or it's that old saying, you know, because the cliche is because it's prevalent, right, is it?
Speaker 1:well, or it's that old saying you know it's funny because it's true, right, you know what I mean. It's, it's, it's, there's a reason that highly, highly talented, motivated individuals who want to become a musician or a singer or a drummer, guitar player, player, or, or, you know, a lot of times you know athletes um, you gotta be a little bit narcissistic and neurotic to want to get up on stage and say I'm going to do that, I'm going to play arenas. You know, I was nine, I was 10 years old, you know, like that black Sabbath record and I'm like I'm going to play arenas. I just, I, just, just I told myself I'm like that's, I'm gonna do it. By the time I was 12, I was like I thought by the time I was 18, I was gonna be out on the road with van halen. You know what I mean.
Speaker 5:You're like, um, but, but that's, I don't know well, iaza you, something you just said about how talented somebody can be. But then like, why? Why does it end up doing them? In made me think of something, because we all have a lot of us have trauma and pain, right, I think, for people that are on a public stage. We know about it because they report about it, right, but we know the veteran statistics are no'all thoughts, right. Yeah, no, I don't have an answer. The question just came to me because we all have these things that we carry. They can fuel our work, they can fuel our creativity, they can feel art, but then it gets like too heavy and it ends up killing us. So like, how do we like balance that shit? And I'm not a professional, so I don't have an answer, but it's, it's.
Speaker 3:I'm seeing oh sorry, go ahead. Rosa was going to say I'm seeing lives saved by music here. I'm seeing you know no-transcript, yeah, you see it at least going in a positive direction in the industry yeah, with with one kind of caveat man.
Speaker 1:Like the industry now it's not just the record industry that I grew up in Do you know what I mean? Like you get a record deal, you become part of the machine, recoupable income. You release records, you tour for a year and a half to two years, rinse and repeat. It's not like that anymore. You know what I mean. Like a lot of bands, they don't even make records, they release singles. They make an $800 hundred thousand dollar video and then they tour on that. You know what I mean? Um, it's uh, and.
Speaker 1:And now with the internet, it's kind of crazy. And as far as mental health, there's a guy that I know you guys have heard of, but I saw a podcast with him and this guy is probably the most subscribed to drummer on the internet. Like uh, uh, estepario spanish guy and he's he's beyond fucking ridiculous, like beyond cool. I mean he's funny, he's like he does, his content is just fucking spot on and he's super inspiring. He does shit. That like I've been playing my entire life on a, on a, on a, on a high professional level and this guy just does shit when he's playing Slipknot with one hand, with one hand. Fuck, it's that guy.
Speaker 5:I know he's talking about now.
Speaker 4:He's got a long beard Like that dude. He's usually smoking a joint in the other hand, while he's doing it drinking dude.
Speaker 1:He's like drinking coffee and shit and I'm not I mean, I've never met the guy, but I did watch a podcast and they asked him how his career is, how he decided to become the most watched drummer on youtube, millions and millions and millions of fucking subscribers. He's like well, let me tell you the story and you y'all can research this or find I'm not sure what podcast. I was skipping through something on YouTube and saw it, but basically he had been playing, was having a lot of problems with life and was going to cash in his chips and he thought to himself you know what? I've spent all this time getting pretty good at my instrument, maybe I should film some shit before I cash out. And he did, and that shit blew the fuck up.
Speaker 5:You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean.
Speaker 3:There you go.
Speaker 1:And now I mean I don't know. I mean I wish you know we had, you know, a young Jamie here to look up on the internet like subscribers does Tapario have, but I'm sure it's millions and millions, it's millions.
Speaker 4:I know on YouTube. It's millions.
Speaker 1:His story is inspiring. That's an inspiring story. His story is inspiring. That's an inspiring story because people look at that guy and they go, oh my God, you're the most talented human ever when it comes to this specific thing that you do. How did you ever struggle? You know Well and, to our point, you never know. You don't know what people are doing. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Absolutely so that guy's inspiring, yeah to your point, reza.
Speaker 1:Hold that thought to your point, reza. The industry is not just records anymore. It's also youtube and facebook and instagram. So what were you saying? And um?
Speaker 4:david and I was just going to say in the sense of like you know, know we were talking about. You know people that struggle that you might not think, and you know his story of like, hey, I think I'm going to end it all, but let me make some videos first, and then they kind of blow up all of the healing process. What you eventually get to, you have to say I need to stop worrying about what people think and if something is going to be good, and just do it, just be me and do it. And so it's like how many people out there are like I'd really like to make videos of myself drumming or painting or doing whatever the hell it is, but they're like no, no one's going to like it. It's gonna be this, I'm gonna get laughed at, don't? And then you realize it is just, you know, doing it, putting it out there, not, you know. I agree, internet is vicious, it's tough, it is it is vicious, right, and so yeah, make you
Speaker 1:know it's, it's pretty hardcore right.
Speaker 4:If you're struggling with your mental health, putting yourself on the internet may not be the best option, but not at first. Do the do the thing right, go go, get that band together. Go, get on the web. If you're a musician, whatever, and you're just want to play, find people to play with and do it. Don't worry about what you're going to make, what it's going to be.
Speaker 1:You just do it. Be people who like it. You just do it. Dave Grohl's one of my heroes man and for every reason why we love him. But you know he said in that interview he's like go out join a band, play in a garage. Write a song, hit shit with sticks, get a $50 guitar from a pawn shop, you know, just get out there, you know, and do something. You know. If you want to play, you know Play.
Speaker 3:Absolutely Take action. You got to. Yeah, it's the doing part. Just do it Right.
Speaker 5:It's the intentional part of living your life, not just sort of passively letting life pass you by, but intentionally living Right. So for your next song, what's a song that's intimately connected to another activity?
Speaker 1:Okay, this one was super easy. The song is If I had a Heart by the band Fever Ray. They're Swedish and I lived in Sweden for 11 years. My ex-wife was Swedish and I lived in Sweden for 11 years, my ex-wife was Swedish, and so this song is connected to 2016. I flew to Peru and was there and did an ayahuasca experience that kind of opened my eyes to some pretty interesting perspectives and I know that you guys, everybody, y'all, everybody here has experience as well.
Speaker 1:And the thing with it is that when I was preparing for that trip and it wasn't just the show Vikings, I know everybody's like, oh, it's the show Vikingsikings. It's like no, I had discovered that band and I was like man, dude, this song is just haunting. It's just it's it's and it kind of goes with, you know, the entire meditative aspect of in, you know, the world's most powerful hallucinogen, um, I, you know dimethyltryptamine, ayahuasca, but also uh, uh, compounds like ibogaine or salvio. You know there's different compounds. You can do, but this song, when I was prepping for it and I and I took it serious, like I had done the research about ayahuasca and and, um, you know, I did the diet uh, no meat, no sugar, you know, no sexual activities, no, just drinking a lot of water. And no, you know, prostate, whitefoot, process stuff and just try to detox and stuff. Um, I'll. I'll preface everything with the fact that I had detox and stuff.
Speaker 1:I'll preface everything with the fact that I had previously had a period of my time in my mid-20s probably about five years there where I was doing ecstasy fairly regularly and it got to be a negative thing. It wasn't just fun anymore and it wasn't exploratory, it was kind of it was. It was getting dark and and and I hadn't I hadn't done that since 1999, but uh, I had smoked uh. Previous to this ayahuasca trip in 2016,. About a year previous, I had, uh, I had smoked uh raw DMT, which is a different experience altogether, because when you smoke DMT, you're basically shot out of a cannon, figuratively, and you're elevated to this psychedelic space and usually when you smoke it, you're there anywhere. You know three to you know 10 minutes.
Speaker 1:Whatever I was in for, like four minutes, but ayahuasca, if anybody's interested, it's transformative. It's when, for me, it was very powerful because you never know what's going to come up. It was very powerful because you never know what's going to come up and, and for me it was a lot of childhood trauma that I was reliving in real time and you know my spirit animal was a pangolin weird.
Speaker 1:I had to Google what it was. I didn't know what I was about to say. I described, I described, because it was me and a shaman and a friend of mine. It was for a TV, a Belgium TV show, and it was filmed. Actually it was kind of crazy, but it was me and a friend of mine who's a chef in Belgium, and a shaman and a few, a couple facilitators and the crew, you know, a producer, a cameraman, a sound man. The show was called yes Yawn by AN and so, anyway, that experience was kind of crazy because, like I said, you never know what you're going to see, right?
Speaker 1:And the experience basically kind of set me up for the fact that all the things that happened to me, there's a good chance that they weren't my fault and I just don't have the tools to deal with why. That's true, if that makes sense, because intellectually we could always say, always say, man, all these things happened and I can't get over it and, and I'm not gonna get over it, I'm just gonna fucking bury it, I'm never gonna talk about it and I'm just gonna just carry this bag of guilt and shame, carry that bag of bricks, figuratively. Um, and it's 2016. That was kind of the thing. That was like man, maybe, and it took years later for me to actually rip the band-aid off and actually agree to go to therapy and actually agree to to confront everything but I, but, but this but this experience was was life-changing in that way, and the song can just, it just puts me back in that head space. It's so, it's calming, it's, it's haunting, it's. The lyrics are pretty provocative. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Yeah, let's take a listen and then we'll hear maybe some experience on the other side After the night, when I wake up, I'll see what tomorrow brings.
Speaker 2:Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah ah ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah ah.
Speaker 3:Amazing, yeah, totally. What was the Vikings connection to this song? Are these guys Swedish?
Speaker 1:Swedish, but also the first season of Vikings. That was the intro music for the show oh, wow, okay yeah. I need more of this. I'm like no, Fever Ray is an amazing artist. You know what I mean. I was into them before they were cool. Yeah, I need more of this.
Speaker 4:I'm like no. Fever Ray is an amazing artist. You know what I mean. I was into them before. They were cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:I get it, though I'll say, before doing Ibogaine I had never done another psychedelic and it has changed the way I listen to music and the kind of music I listen to, like the experience of it all. So I had never heard the song, but just in hearing that clip I was like, oh, I get it.
Speaker 1:this is totally I need more real quick on your carolina, on your on your ibogaine experience was was it a shamanic type situation? Because mine, there was a. The shaman was actually singing these Icarus songs that were integral to the actual thing, Cause he was actually guiding us through everything, through these chants and these songs, and communicating with the actual female or I. I identify ayahuasca as a female entity, but anyway they call it. They call ayahuasca as a female entity, but anyway they call it.
Speaker 5:They call ayahuasca the grandmother of all psychedelics, and they call ibogaine the grandfather of all psychedelics um everyone's experience is different. Where we went they do have. Part of the experience is is headphones with a very curated set of music. However, uh, just to me, I did have a guided trip, so I did have a she's. Oh God, david, how would you describe Erica?
Speaker 4:She studied in Gabon with the Bwiti tribes and stuff.
Speaker 5:So she's certified initiated, prepared to guide people through the experience. So she sat with me is not everybody does, but she did guide me.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 4:Cool and I think, going back to the whole grandmother versus grandfather, from my understanding how ayahuasca is I haven't done ayahuasca, I've done Ibogaine Is that that's one of the main differences is exactly that your experiences you're being guided, you're being, you know, it's this, it's this, yeah, experience that is happening, Whereas Ibogaine being the grandfather the way they describe it is like the medicine is going to sit you down and sort of take you through. So it is more you're more just kind of laying back and kind of having the experience, rather than a movement and motion and all of that. So it seems like the two psychedelics operate in their own unique way. That causes the sort of way they look to be different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I've heard that as well. I've never experienced ibogaine, but I know that it's just as powerful as dimethyltryptamine. As you know, dmt, the active ingredient in ayahuasca um, but that experience specifically though for me it was like the cleansing aspect, being in the middle of the amazon was was kind of crazy and the sounds you hear, and you know what I mean, Luckily for me. Like you hear horror stories about people, but yeah, I threw up, but you know, rocked, a heroic of, saw light at the end of the tunnel, like, like you know what, maybe I can get to a point, maybe maybe I can get to a point where I can live with life on life's terms and not always try to fight. How I'm feeling in the fucking moment, with, yeah, with distractions, with, with drumming, even you know, like you know, which is a positive thing, but still like alcohol, for fucking sure, there was plenty years there and we'll get it, we'll get into that in the next song, but you know where you're like. Well, why is this not working?
Speaker 1:Well there's answers. You don't want to hear them, but there are answers.
Speaker 4:Do you feel like I know, with my Ibogaine experience, the way I've somewhat described it at times is it helped me get out of my own way to see the things that were there that I was just preventing myself from seeing. Right, maybe I could have gotten there with decades of psychotherapy or something like that, but it kind of just helped clear stuff away and see things just like just so vividly and raw that it was like oh, wow, yeah, did you have that experience of it Sort of like? Did it feel like it was moving you out of your own way or or kind of like, yeah, it feel like it was moving you out of your own way, or or kind of like you know what?
Speaker 4:what did it? What did it feel like, what? What were the insights? Well, well, that's it.
Speaker 1:I mean, you just described it perfectly because I was like I could separate and I was watching like for you never and again, you never know what you're going to be shown. But I was watching like abuse, I was watching myself like, like, like from, like from a, from a place of above, like seeing that happen and, and, and it's me, but, but, but I was kind of separated, but I could visually see it.
Speaker 1:Everything is neon and 11 dimensions of reality. It's like we sound crazy when we talk about this. They're like uh, you sound like a crackhead, it's like you know it's true, you know, like I I heard, I heard color, I saw sound.
Speaker 4:Yeah you know, when I came out of mind it was sort of like yeah, I'm like how am I going to tell anyone about this? And not just you can't. It's like so hard to do, it is so hard you know there were.
Speaker 1:There were standalone entities communicating telepathically. I tell people that they're like you're a fucking nut job. I'm like, yeah, but there was a female entity that was actually having a conversation. We were having a conversation and it was crazy and it was awesome, um, but that's uh, to your point.
Speaker 1:Some of those feelings and and it was weird though, because I was I knew it was going to be tough I didn't realize I was going to have to relive that shit and I didn't know that it wasn't just the sexual abuse, but it was also like times in my life where, you know, maybe it was bad situations with, where you know, maybe it was bad situations with, um, it's the cliche, but for my brother and I that shit was fucking serious as a heart attack. You know, like situations with step parents, stepfathers and and and you, you hear it's yeah, I mean, we don't have to get into it Like everybody can pretty much assess what that means. You know, getting your head beat in all the goddamn time, sure, um, but I didn't think that it's like, well, fuck man, like what are you? Are you just trying to fuck with me? You know what I mean, right, but what was crazy was.
Speaker 1:It felt like forever, like minutes, feel like at least for me, minutes felt like decades and I didn't think I was ever. I'm like I'm never going home, I'm in this and I'm going to feel this and I'm going to carry this. And then this female entity kind of came and was like okay, so this is where you're at, what do you want to see? Now I remember the question and I'm like where do we come from? Very elementary school, maybe that was me as a child, you know Right.
Speaker 1:And then all of a sudden like I see the big bang happen in real time. That's fucking cool. Um, yeah, I, I, I tell people that story. They're like no, you didn't. I'm like, dude, it's, it's ayahuasca. Dude, you see some crazy shit. But, um, but I did. I did feel a release in a weird way. It was like you know, I remember the first thing I said because it's, it was filmed or whatever. The first thing I said when I came out cause it's, it's not like a slow come down, like for me, it was just like I was in. And then all of a sudden I was like, wow, you know, but I remember the first thing I said was it's not my fault, which was, which was kind of that was yeah, yeah, that that was that was kind of crazy and even if, even if my subconscious didn't believe that, my conscious mind believed that there was, that there was a way out, you know, in a in a positive way.
Speaker 5:Not right Right Right, right Right Right.
Speaker 4:Right, right. It gives you that space to realize it can be different.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and now it's pretty ubiquitous, like you know. You can go on retreats, you can. You can find ayahuasca. I would suggest doing it with a licensed or not licensed, but with a practitioner, somebody that's authentic and and real and not just somebody's backyard with your buddies. You know it's powerful, it's like eyeball game, you know for for veterans with PTSD and and survivors of childhood trauma, and I mean you kind of need a facilitator, as Carolina is, you know, like to help you along, because it can get pretty gnarly.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I mean to help you along, to help you after like to help you make sense of what you saw and how you're supposed to like integrate that back into your like everyday life. Like I. I urge caution to our viewers. It right now psychedelics, you know, not legal in the U S, so if you go abroad to do it can feel very much like the Wild West and there are some horror stories of non-licensed folks, of folks peddling dangerous, not the real deal shit that ends up making people a lot worse.
Speaker 5:So, you know, I think recommendations are really good of people who have been places and can vouch for the staff and vouch for the experience and the guides that'll take you through it, and doing good research, because it is life changing. But it is kind of pretty wild out there right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and even in Peru it's not, you know, I mean, you know, um, iquitos, which is the city it's, you know, there's two ways to get there either on the river or a prop plane from Lima. Um, there's some sheisty fuckers there too, but luckily for me, I had a facilitator, uh, an expat, an American guy who was a published author and wrote an amazing book on ayahuasca. Guy's name was Alan Shoemaker, if anybody wants to look him up, and he has certain shamans that he works with and he's lived there for 30 years and it's a lovely guy and and is a, a practitioner, but also a shaman himself, and and I, I, you know, I felt safe and and also I mean for, and I felt safe and also I mean for me. I mean, I was with a production team, a small production team for Belgian national TV Right, right so.
Speaker 4:I know it sounds funny. There's other people around watching and you're not just you alone, by yourself, with whoever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it was the two of us that were having the experience, and then the shaman and the facilitator. Yeah, yeah, right, no, it was just, yeah, the two of us that were having the experience, and then the shaman and the facilitator.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. It's like thing about it, yeah, the good thing about it being getting so much more, um, uh, accepted, well-known, popular, is that, like you, both Carolina and seven, said, uh, a lot of us, a A lot of us, a lot of people have gone and so talk to people, ask people. People will tell you, hey, don't do this, go this place, go that place, go with this person. So anyone listening, yeah, just have those conversations.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Well, seven, we are at your last song. No shit, we're here, we are I know, we made it Someone's chronological Almost, almost so close.
Speaker 3:For your last song. Five out of six ain't bad, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 5:For your last song. What is?
Speaker 1:a song that you associate with a weighty transition in your life. The way to transition was my divorce and everything that, the way that it, the way that everything kind of played out and the period of time of when it happened. It sounds like a movie. You know what I mean. It's kind of crazy. This song, specifically, man. There were some nights there when I was by myself and just touched God damn, this is tough. I've never felt so alone. Billie Eilish is just such an amazing artist. This, this song, specifically, really the lyrics, you know what I mean those and, and giving examples of of everything, and there's some. You know what I mean. It's like it's, it's something that I can relate to because it's always been. There's a, there's a theme in the lyrics to the song. When people read them, the song is everything I wanted by Billie Eilish. But there's a theme, though, too, that everything's going too good and that's when you fucking worry.
Speaker 1:You're like hey, man like I'm doing good Job is good, Career is good, dogs are good. You know, the family members I have left are healthy, my friends are healthy. You know life's okay. And then you start worrying. Then the anxiety fucking kicks in and you go dude, why is everything going so well?
Speaker 2:The other shoe's going to drop.
Speaker 1:I know, know it, I know something's gonna happen, something bad is gonna happen or I'm gonna, and this is our subconscious right. This is when we don't deal with. The shadow is like we subconsciously fuck something up, and burn shit down without our conscious mind going why did I?
Speaker 1:why the fuck did I do that? How did that happen? And then, and then, then you're it's like you willed, you willed it. You know what I mean? And I think that there's a, there's a subtext to this song that I could definitely periods of life in my time, periods of time in my life where I felt that and so, um, yeah, uh, let's, uh, let's take a listen and we'll, yeah, let's listen and I'll talk about the situation, but you can learn to.
Speaker 2:Never could change the way that you see yourself. You wouldn't wonder why they don't deserve you. I tried to scream, but my head was underwater.
Speaker 1:Amazing.
Speaker 3:Beautiful song. She's so good.
Speaker 1:She's amazing. If I could change the way you see yourself, holy shit, you know she's an amazing lyricist and I could change the way you see yourself. Holy shit, you know, um, she's an amazing lyricist, and I mean her and her brother it's like just such huge fans of them. The situation for this song, though, was that, um, I got married in 2003 and was living in LA, and it was in opiate for the masses, and when that band broke up, my wife and I she was Swedish and she was a bass player in a really successful all-girl Swedish metal band but we moved back to we moved to Stockholm, so I lived in Stockholm from from 2009 to 2019. So I was there 10 years. Yeah, I was there 10 years, and during that time, I had done some hired gun stuff with a British artist um, like 2011 and 12, um with a British artist who was touring in the U S. We did some stuff.
Speaker 1:We did a couple, we did a run with Alice Cooper and some stuff with, um, yeah, various bands, but anyway, uh, I was also, in Lee's eyes, the German symphonic metal band during that time as well. Um, but make a long story short, after like 17 years of marriage, like we had grown apart, we decided well, actually she decided that we were going to get divorced and, and, um, through therapy, I've I've figured out that you know what I? You know there was a lot of behaviors and and and just things that that maybe I hadn't taken into account or maybe hadn't understood how they were affecting my life and my and my family and and everything like that. And to this day, we're amazing friends and and there was no. It's not like fidelity and like all this stuff. It was just like we just woke up one day. It was just like this hey, you know what? We don't have kids, don't have a mortgage. My dog is Swedish, so Dexter is still in Sweden.
Speaker 1:But I had decided this happened in November 2019. I had decided that, well, I'm a Texan, I miss home. I haven't been home since 2002 at that point. So, I mean not home, I mean I had been here to visit. Of course, I had shit, tons of friends. I've been here on tour, but I hadn't lived home and I was like you know what, I can do this. And I did. I moved home and it was a fresh start, left everything after 10 years and was just like in an empty one-bedroom apartment in Addison Texas. But with this renewed kind of yeah, I was sad. Yeah, I hadn't really dealt with the gravity of, of the fact that her and I were together for that fucking long, you know, together almost 18 years and I land in Dallas. You know, march 10th, five days later, the world shuts down.
Speaker 1:So March of 2020, that was a maze balls. So my, you know, and I, I didn't have anything here yet. I hadn't even bought a car. You know, it's not like money was an issue. I just it takes time. You have to go to a dealership, you have to do things, you have to lines of credit. I hadn't lived in the U? S, so my credit score was, you could imagine, I hadn't lived in the U S in 10 years. I hadn't had a U S credit card or even a line of credit. So your credit score, I was starting from zero. So it was, it was insane, it was, it was pretty fucking crazy time. Now let me back up, because I had met somebody in December of 2019.
Speaker 1:And I worked at Hard Rock Cafe in Stockholm for almost nine years when I lived there. So I would go on tour with Channel Zero or Leaves Eyes or whoever. I would come home and I had this job and it was cool management team and, um, I was finishing out my time there, planning on moving home, right. And so this girl comes in with a girl that's one of her best friends, who's a friend of mine, and I meet this girl. Like girl, like hey, you just met me. Weird time in my life. I'm going through a divorce, but I think you're great and I'd love to stay in contact. So first person I fucking texted when I landed in Dallas was her, and so, um, that's just kind of a side story, because that's who I'm with, that's, I mean, we're partners now but it's kind of crazy because we spent we?
Speaker 1:we spent that first four months March, april, May, june just getting to know each other on the phone and on FaceTime and it was weird. And it was weird too because because yeah, just getting to know each other on the phone and on FaceTime Right Because you couldn't meet.
Speaker 1:And it was weird too, because, yeah, that was pretty quick after a divorce and I didn't plan it that way. Hey, I'm just going to jump from one relationship to another. I know it looks like that to a lot of, especially my friends and my family Like what the fuck are you doing, dude? You haven't even processed this thing and you're doing this thing just shows how life is. But I knew I kind of had to take stock of a few things, um, during those early months, march and april, and stuff, because, again, you know, trying to figure out, dude, I just got here, I have a rightpur-Pedic mattress and a fucking 55-inch LG on my wall. That's it. Nothing is open. Ikea is not open.
Speaker 1:I lucked out. One of my best friends took me to Costco and he has a truck. I'm like, dude, I need a bed and I need a TV, but during all those hard nights of just being alone and nobody could go out, it's not like I could see my friends. I mean, after about, after about, five, five weeks we did, though we would go and sit outside. You. We all remember the pandemic, right, right yeah, those initial nights, man there was there was.
Speaker 1:There was plenty, plenty of nights when I uh, plenty of nights where I would, where I would just listen to that record that this song is on, and this song really, really did kind of speak to me and she's an amazing artist. So everything worked out and I think for me the pandemic was a positive. And it's weird because I know it was terrible for the rest of the fucking earth, but for me, like to come home, and I wasn't just like, okay, I'm going to be back in the bar scene, okay, I'm going to be, I'm going to be touring again. Sure, within, uh, I mean, I, we, we had a tour booked in june and july. We were, we were doing fest, channel zero. You know, we had all these festivals booked, you know, in in europe and stuff.
Speaker 1:So it was like, right, it gave you that time it forced everything to shut down to me to well, and it forced me to be alone, right which you know what I mean, like that's part of the thing with with, with having, you know, diagnosed lifelong anxious attachment, is that I just can't be alone. In my entire life, adult life, just with one relationship after the other and saying, and you know what people it probably looks like that way now as well, and maybe it is but, um, but it did force me to be alone and kind of take inventory of everything and and and reflect on the good, the things that were great about, about my marriage, but also the things that that I fucked up. You know, or maybe I didn't see at the time. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely so. Yeah, billie Eilish, and then, and then we're still good on time.
Speaker 2:We are, we are.
Speaker 5:Raza did you have something before I wrap up?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was just going to say I'm not a professional from a mental health perspective at all, but one thing that I keep hearing about is folks having insight and seven. I have to say that I think, just looking back at this you're looking back at the six songs but I think this pandemic era, it sounds like you've got, you know, insight, you've got. You've got you are able to look at, you know, detach yourself from yourself, look at things for what they are, yeah, and point you know, okay, I, that went well, that did not go well, I fucked up there. I did okay there and it is what it is, and I think that I have to just applaud you and commend you for that, because, because that's that, that's, it is kind of rare, it's, it's not, it's not something that is, you know, universal.
Speaker 1:So uh, so yeah, Um, yeah, I appreciate that man, that that that means a lot, because it's it's, it's it, it's, why are we here? You know what I mean and I, and, and I finally have some answers. You know what I mean, like, and I don't know where they came from. It's like why are we here? I think it's to love and be loved.
Speaker 1:That's at brass tacks, bedrock, that's it, yeah and that's and that's friends, family, that our dogs, that's fellow humans, you know, whatever it is. Music obviously plays a part of that. But then there's also some other things that I reflect on and I go like all this stuff, all this shit that I made it through, you know what I mean. There's an old line, I think it's from the Industrial Revolution, I think is from the industrial revolution, and I and I and I, I, I think of this line when, when I'm, when I'm going to make a move, whether it's, you know, financially, professionally, whatever it is it's like if, if you don't have a seat at the table, then you're on the menu and and and like.
Speaker 1:When you read it and then you say it, you're like, you're like it's true and I'm not going to be on the fucking menu you know, like, whatever it is, whether it's my personal life, my professional life, my drumming life, music you know I'm going to have a seat at the table and I'm going to continue to grind, because that's the only thing I know how to do. Really, you know, I'm going to have a seat at the table and I'm going to.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to continue to grind because that's the only thing I know how to do, really, you know. Yeah, absolutely, I like that.
Speaker 4:I'm going to need a minute to process that one that one's like that's a lot.
Speaker 5:There's been a few of these nuggets throughout the interview that are like.
Speaker 2:Jesus write that down.
Speaker 5:Yeah, they're like Jesus. Write that down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, write that down.
Speaker 5:All right, well, anything else. You did it.
Speaker 1:Anybody else should go listen to Sleep Token. They're my favorite new band ever.
Speaker 3:So go listen to Sleep Token. They're awesome. They're ridiculous. Speaking of someone who likes lyrics Amazing. Yeah, that's unreal. I just saw them here in.
Speaker 1:Austin. I just saw them here in austin. I just saw them here in austin, me and my buddy, joey duane is um. You guys might know him. He was a singer for un, loco and a new revolution, but we've been lifelong friends but we went together and we were both like like teenagers, like right in front of standing right in front of front of house 9 000 cedar rita and Cedar Park sold out and the band was perfect. Everything sounded great. The production was awesome. That drummer is the drummer is Holy shit.
Speaker 3:His snare drum is just yeah, yeah, yeah, his snare drum.
Speaker 1:Everybody should go listen to Take Me Back to Eden by Sleep Token. It's the best record of the last 10 years Bold statement.
Speaker 5:I know, but there you go you heard it here so how does it, how does it feel like hearing your life reflected through these six songs. How does that feel?
Speaker 1:Feels good, not saying it wasn't hard a couple of times, but I kind of knew that going in, we knew, you know, like I'm like hey, I picked these things, they're there, they're real, you know, yeah, but it's good, it's good to reflect and it's good to kind of to take a step back and kind of see things for what they are and and and be okay with that and be able to sit with that. You know, and that's another you know, not to keep bringing it back to therapy, but being able to sit with anger, being able to sit with sadness, instead of just always trying to get out of how you're feeling. That that is really difficult. But when you do it, like when I do that now, I'm kind of like you know that that period passes. Oh sorry, you guys probably heard that that's not good.
Speaker 1:I didn't mute that but, I didn't hear anything actually we don't hear anything. You're good okay, um, but when that period passes, then you're like, oh shit, if I could get that that time worked, then maybe next time I have this, this intense feeling of anxiety, and you don't know where it's coming from and you just go okay, let's do our breathing exercises, let's do, or let's do, our box breathing, let's, let's, let's like, step outside, put our feet in the grass for a second. There's like like it's tools right, and I never had tools like I my whole life, and, and now it's a lot of its age.
Speaker 1:I think too, you know what I mean. Thank god, we're getting old, you know, it's true, it's, it's like man not everybody gets the chance. 20s were crazy. Man 30s were crazy. Everything was kind of everything was kind of bananas. So, yeah, I like stability, I like, I like you know, I like this, yeah, so yeah, absolutely. I appreciate y'all, thank you wisdom with age. I like that yeah, so how we wrap up?
Speaker 3:all right um well, you guys want me to take it?
Speaker 4:yeah, go ahead rosa, we gotaza, we got one final thing before we sign off this is our lightning round.
Speaker 3:Oh, I love it, I love it I think I know what it is too, so yeah, so, just real quick, whatever first comes to mind. We want to know what was your first, last and best or favorite concert experience.
Speaker 1:Well, fuck, we already did this because I saw Sleep Token. Was that your last?
Speaker 5:concert, or was that your best concert? That was the last arena show.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, the last show I saw was Drowning Pool in Dallas. They did a benefit for an drug dog rescue up there. It's a benefit show. It's like 800 seater intimate. It's cool. That was the last show, but the last arena show before that was was sleep token. First show Yep, my first show. This is a testament again to my parents. Uh, uh, it was 1981, I guess 82, 81. I have to figure out when that tour was.
Speaker 1:But jimmy buffett, somewhere over china, tour nice yeah yeah, my dad was smoking weed the whole time and I was just like standing. I was standing on the chair you know changes in latitudes changes. That was texas yeah that's amazing, and uh yeah, the net yeah then that same year man.
Speaker 3:The same year I saw 38 special support and survivor whoa that was cool yeah, okay, I have a tiger, uh, best concert man, that's tough.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I don't know if I I don't know if any of y'all have seen the last time rammstein played I've never seen rammstein.
Speaker 4:I haven't seen it, but it's on the list because it just looks like an experience you love them, david, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:I mean, arguably I would say that's the best show I know. People are like, yeah, u2 is amazing. I'm like, yeah, u2, schmoo too, you know what I mean. Like whatever, the Rolling Stones, good luck. Good luck on that. And I know people hate it when I talk like that, but I'm like dude Rammstein are light years ahead production-wise, production value-wise, entertainment-wise, flames just by every metric. And they sound perfect too. That's the thing. Like everything sounds perfect, everything looks perfect. It's thing like everything sounds perfect, everything looks perfect. It's like larger than life.
Speaker 4:It's like right, the pyro is not just covering up for music. Well, here's the kicker.
Speaker 1:They only can play stadiums now. Their production is so big that they can only play stadiums. They're a stadium right like, yeah, they don't even play the US Because where are they going to play Giant Stadium, you know Right. That's amazing, right, but probably the best show, dude. How about this man 2005? Nine Inch Nails at the Greek Theater in LA? That was amazing. Love it. That was amazing. I'm a huge Nails fan and that was amazing. Love it. That was amazing. I'm a huge Nails fan, and that was cool.
Speaker 5:So, anyway, that's the lightning round yeah.
Speaker 3:That's awesome.
Speaker 5:Thanks for sharing all that with us. I think, before David signs us off, in just the last couple of minutes we'd love to give you the floor if you have anything you want to share with our audience of what you got going on or how they can watch you play, or just you know anything you want to share.
Speaker 1:So I finally launched a YouTube channel I guess we'll put the link below, hopefully in this, in this episode and I'm trying to be active on Instagram I don't know Kind of a thing. Currently, I play drums for the band channel zero with Mikey Doing, amazing guitar player and one of my best friends. We are playing multiple, multiple festivals in Belgium and Holland. This here I leave on Tuesday, this coming Tuesday, this coming tuesday, and uh, so, yeah, channel zero, uh, on youtube and also on, you know, insta and spotify, apple music, um, and yeah, that's kind of it. Go subscribe to my youtube channel. I'm posting stuff weekly, um, I'm trying to get better at that. You know what I mean, but creating content is a constant, it's a constant job.
Speaker 1:So I appreciate you all. I can't thank you enough. This has been very it's been fun, but also kind of cathartic and therapeutic, and I think that there's a lot of folks that are going to get a lot out of us so to speak.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Thank you. Yeah, seven thank of us, so to speak. Yeah, absolutely Thank you.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for sharing your story being open. Um, that's, that's huge. So thank you very much for your time All right everybody. You know what to do, whatever platform you're on. If you're watching this on YouTube, like, subscribe all of that so you get all the new episodes coming out. Whatever platform you're listening on, follow, like, subscribe whatever you need to do so you get future shows. But thanks for joining us on this episode of A Life in Six Songs. We'll see you next time. Love y'all.
