Don't Step on the Bluebells

Anamaria Dorgo – Healing with Community (#040)

• Amanda Parker • Season 1 • Episode 40

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What if the path to healing isn't a solitary journey, but one best traveled in community? In this transformative conversation, Amanda sits down with community building expert Anamaria Dorgo to explore how authentic community becomes a powerful vessel for personal transformation and healing. Anamaria, founder of the renowned L&D Shakers community, shares her revolutionary approach to creating spaces where people don't just connect—they discover missing pieces of themselves they didn't even know were lost.

Through her journey from feeling isolated as the only learning professional in her company to building a global community of thousands, Anamaria reveals the secrets of what makes community truly healing: distributed leadership, intentional experimentation, and the courage to let go of control. She introduces a beautiful definition of healing as "finding and incorporating missing pieces in yourself"—some you know are missing, others you discover along the way.

The most revolutionary insight? Community becomes your confidence laboratory—a safe sandbox where you can test out who you're becoming before stepping into that identity in the "real world." As Anamaria reveals, "I use community a lot to build confidence and power by doing things here in the safe space and sandbox so that I can see myself doing it, so that I can believe that I can do it." 

Whether you're a healer looking to understand the power of collective transformation, an entrepreneur wanting to build meaningful community, or someone seeking deeper belonging, this episode offers profound insights into how we heal—and help others heal—together.

This isn't just about building online groups; it's about creating spaces where people can experiment with who they're becoming, find their tribe, and step into their power with confidence that ripples into every area of their lives. What missing pieces of yourself are you unknowingly searching for, and what would change if you stopped trying to find them alone? 

How to Get in Touch with Anamaria:

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Anamaria Dorgo:

There's. So many people have said I'm becoming so much more confident as a result. I tried something in L&D Shakers and I went and I proposed it at work, and so now I'm suddenly able to do that and my manager is praising me and I'm a year later I'm up for a promotion.

Amanda Parker:

Welcome to Don't Step on the Blue Bells, the podcast where personal healing and transformation takes center stage. I'm your host, Amanda Parker, and I'm a fellow seeker on the journey of personal growth. Join me as I delve into the stories of gifted healers, guides and everyday people who have experienced remarkable transformations. Listen in as they share their practical wisdom to enrich your everyday life, and don't forget to hit subscribe and never miss a new episode. Welcome to today's episode of Don't Step on the Blue Bells. I am here with the incredible Ana Maria Dorgo, a woman who I greatly admire and who has had a big impact on my journey over these last years. She is a learning and community consultant. She's also the founder of the L&D Shakers community. She's got a podcast, a newsletter, so anything that you could possibly want to know about the learning space or about what it's like to either build or be within community, Ana Maria is the go-to resource. I'm so happy that you're here today. Thank you for joining me.

Anamaria Dorgo:

Oh, thanks for having me. I'm getting very emotional hearing you talk about me, so thank you. It's really special to be here today.

Amanda Parker:

Yeah, for me too. Our friendship began a couple of years ago. I think we were just saying it's about three years since we first met. We met through your community, so I found my way into the L&D Shakers community and somehow I don't even remember how we started talking, don't even remember how we started talking and it's just been like magic ever since.

Anamaria Dorgo:

Yes, yeah, I don't remember how we first talked, but I remember the first kind of experience that I had with you as a coach, when you so generously gifted me this be with you session, which I still remember.

Anamaria Dorgo:

I recall what it was like, I recall what we talked about, I remember what I was feeling. I remember a lot of the things from from that moment onwards and I think after that moment, we kind of kept on, kept in touch in very different shapes and forms now through the years. So, yeah, it's Alanis Sheikas that has brought us together.

Amanda Parker:

Yeah, and so many others. So one of the reasons I was so keen to have you on, ana Maria, is, like, when I think of community, you are the only person who comes to mind. I mean, I've been a part of a lot of different communities over the years, but there's something really special about how intentional and thoughtful you are with what you create. So it goes beyond just okay, I've got you know this whatever webpage or channel that people can log into and talk to each other. No, you've really either uncovered the secrets or shown us the secrets, or are discovering all along the way how to help people belong and create meaning and do something magical together. So today I'm really excited just to dive into the topic of community and like what that means to you, but also how that can be a vessel for healing. Let's do it. I'm excited.

Anamaria Dorgo:

Yeah, I'm talking about communities all the time, from all the different angles, but never from this angle. It's the first time, so I am excited. Let's get to it.

Amanda Parker:

Yeah. So I think the first thing that I'd be curious to know, like if you were thinking of the community work that you do and you wanted to explain that to your five-year-old self, how would you describe it?

Anamaria Dorgo:

I maybe would say that it's like you bring together the people you really like spending time with and hanging with, and in that space it can be a garden, whatever. Your favorite spot is to hang out with this crowd, with these people. Your favorite spot is to hang out with this crowd, with these people, you get to do the most fun and exciting games and activities and plays with one another. That really gives you energy. So by the end of the day, you feel just a lot of energy and happiness after spending time with these people that you really like. So and I think that would make my five year old self very happy to hear, I think she's gonna be like yes, sign me up.

Amanda Parker:

You find a secret garden and people you like and you hang out there. That's it Play games. So, like listening to you talk about that, what do you think makes the way that you view community different from maybe how some others are looking at community?

Anamaria Dorgo:

Yes, I think that over the past few years maybe even before that, but over the past few years that I've been aware of it happening there's a lot of talk about community. That makes me start communities. There are individuals that want to bring together peers and like-minded people in form of communities. That is fantastic. There's also very often the word is attached to other things, like my LinkedIn followers. I label them as my community. I have a newsletter and that is my community and so it's been used, used maybe at times we use abuse and I feel that if we're using it and attaching it to different things that are not true communities, we might be doing the concept of the word a bit of a disservice to me, and they come in so many different shapes and forms, and definitely a a newsletter list can evolve in a community for sure, if you put in the thought and the intention behind that. To me personally, communities are spaces where people that have common challenges questions goals. There has to be some very strong red thread amongst them. They come together to where people that have common challenges questions goals. There has to be some very strong red thread amongst them. They come together to collectively enable some form of a transformation or a change that it is otherwise maybe not impossible to achieve alone, but definitely would take more time, more struggle. Definitely would take more time, more struggle, more energy to go on that transformation path alone. That it is to go together.

Anamaria Dorgo:

The way I look at communities and the type of communities that I will always strive to create and advise others to create are communities where members are enabled to make that space their own. Communities that are much more distributed at the center. So, beyond just the initiator or the person that started the idea or the community, there is always a person or two like, or a small group that starts. That for sure, you will always have it be steered by someone first, but I think as the community progresses it's. I would always recommend people to just build it with the rest of the members. It's not yours, it's ours, and if you do that, you will find yourself motivated years after you've launched it. You will find yourself motivated years after you've launched it. You will find yourself supported by others. You will find that you have still the energy to keep going, creative ideas to keep going, because you're not alone.

Anamaria Dorgo:

Otherwise, I think it's very hard to sustain it over time and sadly, I think that's one of the main reasons why a lot of communities fold or die out is because it's hard to sustain them, and so if you don't distribute that, if you always keep that burden on your shoulders, that's hard over time, it's hard for anyone. So I always say just create a space where people can raise their hands and come up with ideas and do things, which also means you sometimes have to fight this need of control that we all have when we put something into the world. And I've been there and I'm still there, and it's a constant journey. But yeah, I think in a nutshell, that's how I would describe, and we can go into any of this little buckets if you want to, but yeah, well, I think it's really fascinating that you well, first of all, that you share different ways that people are thinking about communities.

Amanda Parker:

So the way that some people might be defining it because I completely agree with you that it's a word that's like pretty overused at the moment and if everything is a community, then like, what does that actually mean? You know, and it's not that some people aren't aren't building community. You know, maybe the mailing list is the community, right, but unless you're intentionally trying to, I don't know, like bring people together or cultivate a conversation. I don't know, like bring people together or cultivate a conversation, we start to lose meaning in the word, Like it no longer holds. You know, am I just really a part of a thousand different communities? In which case, like please stop because I'm overwhelmed and like I don't need that many spaces.

Amanda Parker:

But I think it's also really interesting to think about places. But I think it's also really interesting to think about, you know, I think in the online business world, a lot of people are building communities as a business model. I know it's something that I'm also entering myself, but if you're doing it centered around the person who launches it, like how interesting is that for people long term or for you to keep leading that space. Yes, so I have a few thoughts here.

Anamaria Dorgo:

I always tell people well, if you're struggling to define what a community is or is not like compared to everything else that is out there that we name community, I always tell if you're not there, if for a week you're on mute, you're not there, you don't talk, you don't share, you don't post, you don't send anything out or is the community, are the other people able to talk to one another and share and continue to create value and connect and exchange. So that is where a newsletter list that's very hard to, because if I'm not sending my newsletter this week, there's no conversation. So there's those people are facing my direction and I'm facing their direction and it's very often very unidirectional. It's the same with social media. Yes, you have the opportunity to comment, but if I'm not posting anything, no one talks to me. So I have to have this first. I have to put something out there and receive reciprocity from the rest. And, yes, you can create a conversation.

Anamaria Dorgo:

But I always tell people well, if you want to turn your newsletter audience in the community community, you need to find a space where these people can talk to one another without you being there and your email, your email list, is not enabling that, then yes, community as a business it's out there, it's. It's a hard thing to do. I I don't have that experience. I have not built a community as a business so far. I know very few people that have done that successfully. And there's always this either you're trying to build it like distributed and invite everyone in in order to make it sustainable for you, because otherwise, if it's centered around you as an expert and there's plenty of examples in that realm that are working really well but I think, as the expert or the initiator, if you're building it around you, you're locking yourself up in that role and so once you've locked yourself up in that role, it's very hard for other people to step up because that's not the norm, that's not the example, the behavioral examples, that's not how you've built it.

Anamaria Dorgo:

So it is a bit harder to turn around after a while and be like I know that this has been centered around me and my expertise for years, but now can you talk to one another and can you start to share magically and just be active and engage and contribute. That's hard and also, if you lock yourself in that, you got to keep on going. You have to keep on going, and I think you mentioned that. How interesting or fun is that for me? So can you entertain yourself alone in front of these people for a year or two or three or four, right, and maybe you can, but I would always say it's so much easier to just have a bunch of other people that are entertaining, right, and have that group of people that are constantly changing, and you have people that come in with fresh ideas that you probably have never thought about.

Anamaria Dorgo:

So that's the community. It's a bit I like to build it where, over time, it's a bit detached from me, so it's suddenly not Anna Maria's thing, it becomes our thing, and then everyone feels a bit responsible and proud of the space we're collectively creating. That gives me a break at times, to be honest, like I can not be in the community for a month because life happens. You know Life happens and you have to take breaks, and so I think I would be very saddened to see a project that you pour your heart into fade away or disappear just because life happened and you need to take a step back.

Amanda Parker:

Well, that, I think, was role modeled so beautifully last year with when people within the L&D Shakers community got so excited about creating like an in-person experience and created a whole team around what that looks like and bringing people together. So I flew out to Amsterdam for that event last October along with you can tell me how many other people but it was a huge group of us that had flown in from everywhere, which is such a testament to like the excitement and joy and like fun that they have in that space that people were actually like self-organizing. I know that you were also a part of the organizing team, but you hadn't been the initiator of the idea and still it created this whole in-person momentum of like everyone going yes.

Amanda Parker:

I'm going to the L&D Shakers event.

Anamaria Dorgo:

Yay, yes, and even on that, indeed, there were 10 people in the team that organized it and the idea wasn't mine, um, but I remember the people that were coming in the emails that we had like sent with them back and forth before. It's like, is there anything I can do? Do you still need facilitators? Can I take over something? Can I help with something? And so that was really fun to see where people were coming in as participants and they paid, obviously a ticket and the hotel and everything to be there, and they still felt like I'm not going there to be served something on a platter, like we probably. I am like that when I'm going to conferences or I'm going to go into events, okay, I'm paying a ticket.

Anamaria Dorgo:

I am here to observe. I'm here to take in. There's someone else that organizes, but in the shakers case, people were all like reaching out to observe. I am here to take in. There's someone else that organizes, but in the Shakers case, people were all like reaching out to you. Hey, can I help? Do you need something? What can I do to create the thing which I think speaks to the culture? Maybe, if you want to call it that, the culture that we've built inside the community. So yeah, that was. It was a fun one, it was a hard one, but it was a really fun one.

Amanda Parker:

Yeah, I mean, organizing an event of that size doesn't sound easy.

Anamaria Dorgo:

No matter what, it was good, good memories, good memories that we've created for ourselves.

Amanda Parker:

So tell me, how did you get here? How?

Anamaria Dorgo:

did you even come to a place that you wanted to intentionally create community. So I'm coming from, I'm Romanian, I grew up in Romania, I went to study there, so I studied there in the Romanian educational system, which is not very Montessori-like flavored, so it was very traditional and typical. The core core of it all it started sometime in my in high school when I started being part of national programs for young people, for students, and then later on in university and during my masters, I was always very pulled and drawn to student organizations, and student organizations are our communities. They are self-managed by the students. They have committees you apply to be part of the team that steers everything and that type.

Anamaria Dorgo:

I didn't know that back then, but what I knew was that as a person, I was drawn to spaces where I was invited to contribute and share and I was gifted the trust that I can do that. And sometimes I felt that in school very, very seldomly, like very rarely, I felt that I, that I'm trusted with something and that I have something in me. I mainly I was. I felt as a student, I felt like you, you don't have it in you and then so you have to listen and sit in your bench and sponge it in and learn. That's the whole purpose of it. You don't know, we know, and then you sponge it in, you take it in and then you become wiser and you become smarter. And I found that these other spaces were like oh, this social learning, peer learning again, those were concepts that I didn't have back then, but I know now that that is what it was. It was peers same level, eye level coming together, trusting each other, being a bit bold, a bit curious, not caring too much about the results. Everything was very experimental, so it was just a massive playground, or sandbox, if you want. And so what that did to my, my knowledge, on one side, but the biggest, the most important part, was my self-confidence, my confidence in who I am and what I can do, and my voice matters. I have something to share, and when I open my mouth, there are people that look at me and nod and thank me for an insight, and not only that. I can, then I can then contribute to something. So I'm taking away, but I also feel useful in that space.

Anamaria Dorgo:

And then in my master's, I discovered this concept of communities of practice during my studies and the moment that got explained to me in a course. I knew that that's the topic of my master's dissertation, so I reached out to the professor and I contributed to the study of communities of practice within academia. And then I started working in HR and in L&D and somehow I parked that idea and it surfaced for me in a moment in which I felt the need for community. That was six years ago. I was working as the only learning and development person in the company. It was really fun because my manager trusted me to do a lot of things and that was beautiful.

Anamaria Dorgo:

But after a while I felt the need to come together with other people that were doing the same thing, for two main reasons. One, I didn't want to reinvent the wheel all the time. It's like I'm pretty sure that there are other people that work on an onboarding program, that work on a leadership development program, that that are working on projects that are sitting now on my to-do list. It's like who are these people and how can I learn from them? Because I don't want to spend too much. I just want to go for the best practices and the ideas that I know that work. And the second piece was this I want someone to look at my work and give me feedback that comes from. I've been there and done that like watch out for this, maybe tweak that.

Anamaria Dorgo:

So that was my very personal need and that's when L&D Shakers started. It was never meant to be what it is today, so I think it's good to mention that it didn't start with this big vision to be a global community of online and offline and so many events and so many programs and projects for thousands of people. That was not the idea. My idea at the beginning was I was living in amsterdam by that time, in the netherlands, where I'm still based. My idea was I just want to find five or seven people that work in other startups, in learning and development, to get together once a month around the table with our laptops, with our work, and actually look at each other's work and learn from one another. So that's how it all started and, yeah, that was six, five years, five years ago, and the rest is history and it's been a very, it's been a wild ride, very rewarding.

Amanda Parker:

Yeah, I mean, it's incredible. It's just a testament to like you were answering your own need by saying, Okay, does anyone else want to get together? And, if I remember correctly from stories you've told me before, you were just trying to find a community to come together, like in Amsterdam to start, and then it I think COVID happened. It started going online and then more people started hearing about it and turns out you weren't alone in that desire of finding others you could come together with, to, in a way, talk shop come together with, to, in a way, talk shop.

Anamaria Dorgo:

That's it. Well, before I started anything, I was looking for it. I was like is there? Like where are learning and development meeting in Amsterdam? Is there a club? And back then it was this, um, the meet meetup app where you could create meetups. I was like I went to meet up. It's like, is there any type of? And I couldn't find anything, and so I started this.

Anamaria Dorgo:

I'm happy I didn't knew so much about community, or I'm happy that I didn't knew where this is going to end, because probably that would have been not, probably, most definitely that would have been too big of a project and too intimidating for me to feel back then that I could do that. And so it started very small and very shy. And I think the one thing that we did really well me and the people that were there at the beginning we just went with the flow, we just capitalized on momentum and energy. And COVID came and we moved online and we just we just went and did the next logical step. And then, if you constantly do the next logical thing and the next small thing and the next small thing, you, you look back and suddenly it's two years. You're two years in it and you look back it's like, oh my god, we've done so many things, like look at this, so many events, and now we have a free coaching program and now we're working on, you know, running an online conference or whatever, because you constantly do this next logical thing that arises or idea that comes from the energy and from the people and what you're learning and what you're hearing and what you're seeing.

Anamaria Dorgo:

So and I remember back then many people said what is the strategy? Like, where is Alan D Shaker going? It's like I don't know. We'll have to wait and see. Right now, we're doing what feels right and what's fun and what we believe it's useful for us. What is useful? What do we need? We create it. That's it. That was the strategy and it's still the strategy today. If someone has an idea of something and they believe that what might be useful for big chunk of the members, they just go ahead and do it.

Amanda Parker:

I know a lot of our listeners here are healers or on some kind of healing path, maybe some path of discovering spirituality, and I think you're speaking to a lot of the audience and sharing that, because we often think and I'll speak for myself like I often think I need a plan, I need to control the outcome, I need to know where I'm headed, I need to, like, map out all the steps to get there, and whenever I do that, I never end up where I think I will.

Amanda Parker:

So all that time and energy spent in like the planning and figuring out and the strategy of things is often, you know, a bit wasted. I'm not saying it's always a waste, because I think it's good to, you know, dream big and have ideas and visions. But this way of just like to put it into these terms, like kind of surrendering to what wants to evolve and then responding to it as it comes up, is so much more in flow and more playful and gives so many more opportunities to create something bigger than you could have imagined had you tried to plan it so it's yeah for me.

Anamaria Dorgo:

I think what worked really well and this is how I see the community evolving, with other people doing so many things. I mean, alan D Shakers now has a core team of 65 maybe more members, and this is not counting the coaches and our mentors and the speakers that come to obviously contribute. Everything is member-led. But if I I think, as I heard you talk about that, this, oh, I'm stuck in planning. I see that a lot and sometimes I'm tempted to do that as well.

Anamaria Dorgo:

I think I have the the benefit of being this, I I plan better once I commit to something. So, once I know that, okay, there's something that has to come to life, it has to take, take shape, it's an event, it's a comfort, whatever it is, and so that strategy, I noticed that works really well. And I always tell people well, let's fine tune a bit the idea, but you don't have to have all the answers. Fine tune it, commit to the idea and put a deadline, and the moment you do that, your brain will figure out ways to do it, to make it happen, you know. But commit to something, to a clear artifact outcome, something, because the moment it's a project, your brain will make it happen and you will make it happen.

Amanda Parker:

I don't know why you're not the coach. I mean that's brilliant. I'm going to take notes after this call, but it's it also. It really does remind me of something my coach has often taught me and that really was a lesson I needed to learn about. Like you need to commit, you have to decide and commit, and once you commit and you put your energy towards that, it's also like it's a sign to like the whole world around you, to yourself, to your own energy, to like the people around you if you believe in the universe or whatever. It is like everyone's listening, like okay, we're gonna make this thing happen. Now you know and that's probably very true that a lot of the planning that happens like when you really go into that planning, planning, analysis, paralysis, kind of space, which is very easy when you love thinking and it's a strong suit of yours you're no longer able to really just move freely and respond to what's coming up, and it's probably a pretty intelligent form of procrastination.

Anamaria Dorgo:

Yeah, Because the truth is that there are infinite ways to create something. So you can be in that, planning and dreaming and maybe this and maybe that, and maybe perfect it forever, because you actually can. That is a reality. If you would take forever to do that forever, you will have ideas when you commit to an action and you put a deadline and you probably bring two other three people to do it and you're like, okay, now it's the three of us and we have to do this by whatever next month. You're forcing yourself to commit to decisions and actions and even though you know, maybe if we think we're going to come up with something better, but at that point the, the the deadline is forcing you to just, it doesn't matter, commit to something now and bring it to life.

Amanda Parker:

Yeah, there's like a huge creative force in the constraint. Yes, so by giving yourself the constraint and I guess, like for a lot of us who are like running our own businesses, we don't have all those constraints, maybe sure about like getting money in or a certain number of clients or who knows what, but you're often lacking external constraints unless you have, like the client work you know, and so it can be really difficult to realize that actually that constraint gives you more freedom, more creativity and helps you either bring something to life and like, either way, you're going to learn from it. It can succeed or fail, doesn't matter, you're going to learn something powerful from doing it.

Anamaria Dorgo:

There's this you're going to succeed or you're going to learn. That's important, because I think that some of the things that keep us in this over analyzing and planning is our desire to minimize the risk of failure as much as we can. So I know that sometimes we say, oh, I'm going to try it and then, if not, I'm, but actually I don't want that. So that's why I feel that we sit too much in this planning mode at times. I like to ask people are you like? Why are you, why are you taking this too seriously? Like?

Anamaria Dorgo:

why are you making such a big deal out of this you know, like I think we take ourselves too seriously and we we sometimes see ourselves in such a high regard and it's it's. I have that in certain areas of my life too. I somehow allowed this community to be the space where it's not about that. I will always do my best, but I know that that's the space where I show up as the mad scientist, the experimenter. It doesn't have to make sense, it has to be fun.

Anamaria Dorgo:

I'm gonna do something, I wanna put something out there. It's not gonna be perfect, and that's okay, because that's the whole point of being in a lab with your lab coat and experimenting. So I think that's also a matter of a bit of a mindset, or reframing, probably, of what this project is to you. And maybe if you attach your livelihood, maybe if you attach your livelihood, your business, et cetera, to it, I can see how that can be a's. That's hard, because that rubs against um creativity at times, or even this boldness of ash. I don't know, this is just for fun. Let's see what happens, you know, let's just put it out there and figure out and see what, what comes back. It's just an experiment.

Amanda Parker:

So I think there's something to explore there at that mindset overlap and what meaning or labels you attach to the community, or, yeah, you know how can we all get what we're needing, what we're yearning for. It's a very different energy to enter that with play, experimentation, as opposed to OK, I'm going to have this many members and earn this much money, and da, da, da, and like at some point because I'm not against paid communities I know you may have different views on some of it right, like I'm not against a paid community, but what's, what is it serving? And at some point does it just finish serving that purpose and then it's done, you know. So in my own life I would say I've had different kind of communities that I've like started and led, some just in the form of like masterminds.

Amanda Parker:

You know, five of us are coming together for like a year or two and talking about either business or running a coaching practice or, you know, practicing different forms of shamanic healing or things like that, and we come together and it's always very clear to me when our initial mandate has kind of run out, you know, and for me that's usually been a sign to say like thank you, look at this amazing thing that we've done and built together and like goodbye and it's usually the point of ending but from what I'm hearing, with what you're describing, especially in like, specifically in the L&D Shakers community, but also just your mindset about community that would just be an invitation to say, okay, what do I need now? How can I grow? How can we grow? Do we need to invite new people in? So there's a different kind of playfulness. If you're willing to be more experimental and see beyond, what is this one goal that you're really like angling towards? When that goal is fulfilled, then what?

Anamaria Dorgo:

Totally and also the fact that certain, particularly for smaller communities or like the mastermind, it has a very clear purpose and that purpose will be achieved and the community is closed and that is so normal and absolutely fine. And I would even say, don't try to push to stretch it.

Amanda Parker:

If it served its purpose and even there Now we're going to talk about baking. There we go.

Anamaria Dorgo:

Yeah, so that's the thing. It evolves in something else. If those five people suddenly discovered a passion for baking or whatever, and it, yeah, it can evolve, that's not a problem. But then just know that this project, this community, this group has served its purpose. Because we all reach the finish line and certain communities are built like that. They have a clear, it's a very, it's a very straight step by step from A to B or A to Z in this case, right.

Anamaria Dorgo:

So you go to A, b and then you reach Z and then I say, okay, it's over. And L&D Shakers, on the other hand, is this ongoing space, and I think it became that because it grew so big at the beginning, because there was a need that so many people had, and now there was that space that we were creating and so people flocked naturally to that and COVID was about. We were five months in when COVID started and then we opened it up like we were meeting online and so it was like it didn't matter if you live in UK, right, and we were in Amsterdam, anyone could join, and so that definitely was the right moment at the right time, in the worst context ever, I think. But for a community, for our community and for many online communities, that was a strong push and energy boost Because maybe you remember everyone we were all online crazy about learning and I was attending so many freaking webinars every day and lunch and learns, and all I was doing was like logged into some zoom all the time, and so that was the time to to do that. You know it was the perfect moment, um, and I think, because it grew so much, we now now have this. It's an ongoing space.

Anamaria Dorgo:

We don't know when L&D Shakers is going to die or it's going to fade, because we have constantly new members and fresh members. But if I look closely at the people inside, or the dynamics inside, you do have that thing of people coming in. They have a purpose, they got to their personal Z and they're out. So there's constant people that get to Z all the time, but at the same time there's constant people for whom Alan D Shakers represents theA today. So it's like an ongoing journey of different people and some will be done and will leave and others will just start. So that's the only difference. But at the end of the day it is the same dynamics as what you just said with your mastermind. I'm coming in, I have a need, I fulfill that need in three months, six months a year, it doesn't matter two years and I'm going out and some people come back. So it's just there's. It's because we don't have any rules for that matter and we're two, we're 1000s of people. So you don't notice this.

Amanda Parker:

Obviously, in a group of five you notice that much more Well, I also think it's interesting because, as humans and maybe this is not in your circles, but in my circles and the people I know people are afraid to end things. They're like afraid to leave or to close things out or to hurt someone's feelings, you know. So I have found I've had to be clear, and I don't always get it right, but I've had to be clear when I feel that this space is no longer serving and to be able to say, hey, listen, like let's celebrate what we've done, so that it's not like dragging into some territory where you're dreading getting on like a mastermind call, but that you can honestly say, hey, listen, we're all in such different places now Look at what we did and find a way to close that space together. And I think, yeah, that's probably just as important, like being really intentional with how you end something, the same way that you're so intentional with how you begin it, that people really have that chance to step out. Gracefully was.

Amanda Parker:

I was the chair of an alumni committee for it was called the coaching fellowship. I think now it's the women's impact Alliance, and I remember cause we were an all volunteer team. I think there were 10, 10 of us working together and we were working together for 18 months and I had no idea how do you lead a volunteer team for 18 months and like actually get stuff done. And so I just made it a point to have regular like recommitment conversations that everyone could bow out gracefully, without judgment, whenever they wanted.

Amanda Parker:

But if they were in, they were in, because I think that can happen and I'm sure that happens in, like your community it's happened in communities that I've been a part of also where people don't really know how to do that and they kind of like fade out into the background, you know. But there are some people who it's really like okay, are you like all in on this? And then I do expect you to show up and I do expect you to follow through on your commitments. I do expect you to show up and I do expect you to follow through on your commitments. And that's what I think is really special also about what you've helped to create and foster that people want to give their time. I'm not saying they all are like perfect and you don't have to out anyone now, but that they want to, that they actually want to show up because there's, you know, coming to the topic of this conversation, there's also like a healing in that for them, there's something that they're receiving by showing up.

Anamaria Dorgo:

Yeah, everyone has a different need that it's being met as a result and that need changes. So members move and they come in and go, and we had people that were in the community for two years and you never really saw them and after two years they raise a hand and said now I'm in that moment in my life when I'm willing to take ownership of something and bring something and create something. And years have passed where you would say like, okay, and that's okay. I just want to go back a bit to this example that you give with endings and working with volunteers and et cetera, because when you work with volunteers, it happens, life happens, and we have so many other commitments and things in that life where we have to be there and volunteering, by definition, you don't have to be there. So I always tell people this doesn't have to feel like work, this has to bring you something. The moment you feel it's not sparking something, it's time to leave that place for someone else that has the energy and the drive and the motivation to bring it forward. And your example, what you just gave this at the beginning, at the start of something, there's always motivation and energy. I think that's the moment where these exit routes should be brought into conversation. So the way you've done it and had that recommitment, I think that's the number one thing that I recommend community builders to do whenever they have volunteers stepping into roles shame or dread or any other type of emotion to go into a conversation and talk about the commitment and whether we continue or we drop it. And so that's a spot on example, and in Alan D Shakers that happens as well.

Anamaria Dorgo:

We have that, we have put in that thing. So there's a commitment of at least six months, ideally a year, and after a year, so in December of every year, I go back to the core team and tell them friends, how does the next year look like? Is this still it for you? Do you want to keep on going or do we drop it to someone else? But also, I have this one thing in the onboarding for every new role, every new person in the core team, I always tell them no one is going to look over your shoulder, no one is here to manage you. This is yours. You're going to hit the ground running. You're going to make this happen.

Anamaria Dorgo:

At the same time, the moment you need to drop the ball, please reach out and let me know, anna Maria, I need to drop the ball, because the one thing that we want to avoid is you dropping the ball, no one knowing that you dropped the ball, and having someone at you know after a while be like oh wait a minute. Amanda's like I. She was supposed to be doing this thing. I haven't heard anything. I don't know what's happening. I haven't seen her. You know her project, her contribution. And so then that puts me in the, in the position of going to knock on someone's door, and I'm happy to do that. But I think it's so much clean. And if I tell the beginning, amanda, you have the permission, not that anyone has to give it to you, but to drop that ball at any given time. I will take the ball, I would pass it to the community. If someone catches it, the project keeps on going. If no one wants to commit, the project is folded, because if we don't do the things, we don't have the things. So in a members-led community where no one is paid to do anything, if we don't do things, we don't have things. So it's as simple as that in the community.

Anamaria Dorgo:

And then to come back to your healing point, one question. I always those two questions I ask people when they reach us. Ana Maria, I want to do something with the shakers. I know some, I know what, or maybe I don't know what like different people coming in different angles. But there's always two questions. One is why are you doing this Like? This is going to take time. It's going to take energy. You're probably going to have to sit three months from now on a Sunday evening working on this project. If someone asks you why are you doing this on a Sunday at five and you could be chilling on your balcony what are you going to tell them? So what's that why for you and that can be anything be as transparent and as open.

Anamaria Dorgo:

For some people is I want eyeballs on me, my profile, my business. That's perfect. For other people is I have now 10 years in the industry. I learned so much from so many mentors and people. It's my time to give back generously, without waiting anything in return. I just want to contribute. That's my why. So everyone will have a different why and I think that's their healing. That's the missing piece that they're looking to get right. So that's their healing journey or that's their healing expectation, and that's okay. So I asked them. Let's narrow down on the why and then, realistically, on your busiest week. How much time do you have to set aside for something that you don't get paid to do? That's it. Those are the only two questions that I ask people from the get-go.

Amanda Parker:

Yeah, it sounds like you also help people avoid having to go into shame, because I think that also, like can create that awkwardness like what you were describing. If someone falls off a project or they're not really able to keep up, like if I'm speaking to someone and I'm like they're supposed to send me something and don't, and then I don't hear from them like ever again. I'm like, oh shit, they entered the shame spiral, like no, no, don't worry, you can still talk to me. So I think, like, as humans, that's that can be quite natural and we're like, oh no, I didn't do the thing and you're helping in advance to avoid that. Someone feels that. To ask you another question, because I love to ask well, everyone who comes on the podcast, you know what is your definition of healing? Yeah, I think I hinted a bit is.

Anamaria Dorgo:

So you, you know me, you know that I'm. I'm always like, oh no, healing I don't know if that's my thing. I have so much respect for that word in general carries so much weight for me. Um, I knew you were gonna ask this and so I was like, okay, how do I what?

Anamaria Dorgo:

is healing for me how do I explain it to amanda, because I'm sure she's gonna ask me that um, and so the definition or the way I look at it is there's no-transcript in yourself and sometimes you know what that missing piece is and you go to search for it and it's like, okay, that's the piece that is missing. How do I find it and how do I place it? I put it back and also in many cases me included, I know with other people sometimes you heal and you find missing pieces that you didn't even know were missing, like you had no idea, and then you find the piece that's like oh my God, I need this and it fits here, but I didn't know that I had that little hole there. Both parts matter.

Anamaria Dorgo:

How do we move through the world with our relationships, our families, the job with you, the purpose, the purpose, the side projects, our passions, whatever it is like, the way we live our life every day? All we do is finding, is try to find missing pieces that we know about, or missing pieces that we don't even know that they're missing and we only know when we find them. So that's that I can see in myself. So that feels like a, like a definition of healing that I'm like. Okay, that's what it feels like for me.

Amanda Parker:

I mean that's that's such a beautiful way of expressing it that you're like continuously integrating these little pieces and elements of yourself that maybe you didn't even know were missing. To help you just feel I'm putting my own spin on what you've said, but to help you feel a bit more whole, yes, a bit more integrated and complete.

Anamaria Dorgo:

And sometimes you try to fit in a piece and it feels like, okay, it's matching. You know you make puzzles and you're like a piece matches somewhere, like the shape, but it's actually it's not where it goes. And so sometimes I think in the healing process you also have to take pieces out and it's like, oh no, I know that I filled that hole with something back then, a while back, but actually today I found a piece that it matches that hole better than the old piece. So we also take pieces out. We also exchange pieces, I think, in that healing journey. So also for communities and how our community is healing or where we're going.

Anamaria Dorgo:

Going back to that motivation, I think that's different people come into this and contributing mindset, and I'm gifting now my time and energy to this collective space for to fill out different holes and puzzles, and for some it might be I just want to contribute. For others, at the very core, it might be. I want to be seen, I want to feel useful. For others, I want a space where I can find in Alan D Shakers, there's no manager, there's no salary, there's no, no one is assessing you, you don't have to deliver. So for some people it can be this freeing space where they can find and play on the edges of their creativity, which is a piece that probably they don't find at work, where everything has to come in a certain shape and form and it has to be professional and whatever, so it loosens up or joy, or so. There's so many different pieces that contributing members might try to find in community work and also, if they do decide to be, those pieces have changed.

Anamaria Dorgo:

For me, I was looking for one piece and for something very specific. When I started this and in the first year and as the community grew and evolved and my role evolved, I started to be like, okay, I got that, but now there's something else that I can take from here and there's so it. It also evolves, the drive and motivation and what keeps bringing you back to the community as contributor active contributor that changes over time, as long as you recognize and you're very honest with you and with the rest of the people the what's in it for for you. What is what's in it for me? Why am I doing this?

Anamaria Dorgo:

Um, and I ask myself that question all very often, like almost every year, I ask myself, like, why am I doing this? It's five years and it's hard work like I'm not gonna. It's the most rewarding work and it's it's paid off. And it pays off like in unimaginable ways, but it's hard, it's not a walk in the park, so so I have to. Every year, I have to go back into myself and be like what is my why? What is my why this year, and how do I create that and how do I make that happen for me?

Amanda Parker:

It's really beautiful because, of course, I want to know, like, what kind of healing or transformation is actually possible in community and it sounds like you're able, like so much of the healing comes from, like maybe being able to identify things that you're missing or ways that you want to grow and being able to find ways to like test that out or act that out within that community space that you can also grow and evolve.

Amanda Parker:

If I think about, like within the healer community that I'm leading, you know that might be that people are really looking for support, as they're I don't know like trying out a new healing modality, and is this working and has anyone ever had this happen? And or it might be that you're trying to grow your business in a slightly different way and have no idea how to charge for that work and you're the things that you're actually working through and what's important to you will change over time. And the community itself is like a healing space, as long as you design it that way, of course, that it's like open and welcoming, that it will catch you no matter where you are, support you, lift you up, help you grow into that next version, and that's also incredibly healing just to feel like you belong, like you can show up as yourself, like you can grow and evolve, and you'll still be welcomed into that space.

Anamaria Dorgo:

At the start. Very often people when they find the community, they say usually two main buckets I am alone, I'm trying to find peers, I'm trying to find other people that do the type of work that I'm doing, because I don't want to feel alone in this. In my case he was like very selfish I just want playbooks, I want resources, I want to be in the room with the smartest people that do what I do to learn from them, like that was my thing. And for sure there's other people that are finding L&D shakers and they're joining for that reason. And then the, the, so there's this, I want to belong, or there's something of value here that can bring me forward at the very start and then, as you go, and you especially when, when they move through the layers of the community and they move towards the core and the words, I'm contributing once and then I'm I'm ready to commit and I'm launching something and I'm starting something. I'm putting something in the community. There's so many people have said I'm becoming so much more confident as a result. I tried something in L&D Shakers and I went and I proposed it at work and so now I'm suddenly able to do that and my manager's praising me and a year later I'm up for a promotion and I'm pretty sure it's because I get all of the school ideas that I go and pitch with a lot of confidence because I know they work, or so it's that confidence or that voice that sometimes people are finding their. Their voice is like I know who I am, I know what I stand for, I can refine those things. It's so there.

Anamaria Dorgo:

So there's so many things in which this shows, this healing, can show up. I know I can do this Like again, confidence or resilience. At times it could also be the sense of power For me. Second, third year in Islandish Shakers I use that a lot. How do I build confidence and power? By doing things here in the safe space and sandbox so that I can see myself doing it, so that I can believe that I can do it, so that I can go out of the community. When I'm looking for a job or with my manager or I don't know, negotiating for a raise or pitching a project at work, I can do that from a position of power and confidence because I've been there, done that before and no one can tell me that I can't do it. You know there's many healing puzzle pieces. I think that this is like the absolute golden nugget.

Amanda Parker:

I've just written down, like the minutes, that we're at and the notes to come back to. I mean like being able to feel confident, to find your own voice like man if that isn't 99% of what I'm helping people discover through coaching, through healing, through whatever it is like. We want to know ourselves, we want to feel good about ourselves, we want to trust ourselves to do things we never imagined possible and like, if that is not a reason to go join L&D Shakers, I don't know what is.

Anamaria Dorgo:

I'm thinking that in New York is because you work with healers and some are in the journey and others are at the beginning of their journey, and I see that as well in L&D Shakers, with folks that are transitioning into the industry, right. So there there's a change. They're going through a change that maybe, in your case, they're people that probably are. They know they're healers. Maybe they don't know, maybe they're at the beginning of it, etc. Or they're just starting that journey. A community can really, if you meet other people, other healers, it it definitely can sharpen that identity of yours as a healer too. And Alan D Shakers is manifest with. Oh my God, I'm so happy I found you. I was doing this work for so long. I didn't even know this had a name, because my job title is project manager, but I'm delivering trainings and I'm working on facilitations. This has a name and it's called Alan D. I love it. That's what I want to be doing, right?

Anamaria Dorgo:

So when you're immersing yourself in that collective identity of a healer, a learning professional, an innovator, whatever the community might be about, you look around and you're like, oh, they are.

Anamaria Dorgo:

These people look like me, right, they have. We have the same values, beliefs, the same type of work, the same questions, challenges, dreams, ideas, and so if they are all triangles, then I know that maybe my whole life people have told me that I'm a circle, but actually now that I look around, maybe I'm a triangle, you know, and that feels so. It can feel like such a relief. At times Especially, I imagine, with healing we are like probably, like I don't know, am I, can I call myself that? And then you go into the community yes, man, call yourself that and the moment you start to do that, it can feel like a burden is left of your shoulder and the community helps you fine tune that identity and own it and believe in it and wear it proudly in the world for people who are listening and they want more anna maria, and they want to learn more about community and everything that you're doing.

Amanda Parker:

Where can they find you? How can they get in touch?

Anamaria Dorgo:

yes, the best the best spot is linkedin and if you put my name, you're you're gonna find me, or maybe we'll put the link in the show notes and so on. Linkedin you'll find all of the projects that I'm working on podcast, newsletter and everything that I kind of and I share a lot about communities there, and it's also where you could just reach out with a message if you want to grab a coffee and chat more about communities.

Amanda Parker:

Yeah, she is such a fun place. On LinkedIn, I have to say I love following you there, so definitely I'll link to your LinkedIn in the show notes so everyone can go ahead and get in touch. And just as we're coming to the end of the conversation, is there any advice that you would give to someone who is just starting out?

Anamaria Dorgo:

there any advice that you would give to someone who is just starting out? I always tell people start small. It's okay to dream big, but don't let the pressure of the big dream prevent you from doing something that you can do today of a value. And I always tell them build something that you would really, really like to see having or happening. Bring in the world. That's probably the number one advice I give community builders. You have to need this in your bones, you have to think about it, you have to. It's like it's something that kind of doesn't let you not do it. So if you have that, follow it and jump at it. It's gonna be fabulous. But just don't force something into being beautiful.

Amanda Parker:

Thank you so much for sharing your time and your wisdom so generously. You are one of my favorite people and I'm so happy that I got to have this conversation with you here on the podcast.

Anamaria Dorgo:

Thank, you for having me. This was really really cool I loved it.

Amanda Parker:

Thanks, and to everyone who's listening, thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Don't Step on the Blue Bells and I'll see you next time. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of Don't Step on the Blue Bells. If you enjoyed this conversation, please give the podcast a five-star rating wherever you listen, and don't forget to hit subscribe and follow along so you never miss a new episode.

People on this episode

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Amanda Parker

Host
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Anamaria Dorgo

Guest