Why Healing Isn’t Enough: Energy Shifts for Business Growth with Joanna Choncer (#043)

What if everything you've been told about building a successful business - and healing yourself - is keeping you stuck in cycles of exhaustion and scarcity? In this episode, intuitive business mentor Joanna Choncer reveals why the endless pursuit of "fixing" yourself might be the very thing blocking your abundance, and how shifting into your power as a creator can transform both your inner world and your bank account.

This conversation matters because so many passionate entrepreneurs and healers are trapped in what Joanna calls the "healing trap" - constantly searching for the next block to clear, the next strategy to try, the next certification to earn before they feel "worthy enough" to charge what they're worth. 

Joanna's own journey from attracting toxic relationships and living in post-communist scarcity consciousness to building a successful business offers a radically different path. She shares how a single moment reading about theta healing in a Polish magazine catalyzed a 12-year transformation that taught her this profound truth: "We receive just because we exist. And this has always been our frequency, always, and still will be until the day we die." Her approach blends intuitive business guidance with manifestation principles, showing how clients create everything from disappeared tax bills to 30K months by embodying their desires before seeing evidence.

The most intriguing insight Joanna shares is that there comes a point where focusing on healing actually creates more problems to solve. Instead, she advocates for stepping into "creator consciousness" - using tools like theta-state affirmations and the law of assumption to literally rewire your reality from the inside out. 

Whether you're a healer struggling to monetize your gifts or an entrepreneur burning out from hustle culture, this episode will challenge everything you think you know about worthiness, manifestation, and what it truly takes to build an abundant business. Are you ready to stop healing yourself into limitation and start creating from your inherent power?

How to Get in Touch:

• Website: https://www.joannachoncer.com/
• Instagram: @joannachoncer 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanna-choncer/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joanna.choncer/

PLUS, Here's How You Can Take Charge of Your Personal Growth

1. Are you a women healer tired of trying to do it all alone? Join the Women Healers Collective today!
2. Dive even deeper with this episode's Show Notes
3. Get a weekly dose of inspiration, insights and oh-so-relatable stories of growth!
4. Share your questions and feedback about this podcast & healing with Amanda on Instagram @amandaparker.co

Transcript

Joanna Choncer: [00:00:00] That's what my clients come to me with. Like they have passion, they have drive, they have massive mission distracted by the shiny object syndrome. You know, the strategies, the tactics, they forget how much easier it is to build a grounded, powerful business by fully being locked in yourself.

Amanda Parker: Welcome to Don't Step on the Bluebells, the podcast for personal healing and transformation takes center stage. I'm your host Amanda Parker, and I'm a fellow seeker on the journey of personal growth. Join me as I delve into the stories of gifted healers, guides, and everyday people who have experienced remarkable transformations.

Listen in as they share their practical wisdom to enrich your everyday life. And don't forget to hit, subscribe and never miss a new episode. Welcome to today's episode of Don't [00:01:00] Step On the Bluebells. I'm Amanda Parker, and today I'm thrilled to share a conversation that might just transform how you think about both healing and building a business.

My guest is Joanna Choncer, an intuitive business mentor who specializes in money energetics. She helps high level female entrepreneurs refine their message, turn on their magnetism, and lead with energy driven sales to create multi six and seven figure incomes. After her own profound 12 year healing journey that began with theta healing, Joanna discovered how to transform limitation into power and now guides others to do the same.

In this episode, you'll discover three game changing insights. First, there comes a point where focusing on what's wrong with you actually creates more blocks rather than clearing them. And how to recognize when you've reached that end healing point. Second, you'll learn why female entrepreneurs can scale faster by [00:02:00] tapping into their feminine creative life force instead of relying on masculine hustle tactics that can lead to burnout.

And third, Joanna reveals the profound truth that we receive abundantly. Just because we exist, our divine frequency doesn't require us to do anything to be worthy. This conversation challenges everything you think you know about worthiness, manifestation, and what it truly takes to build an abundant, aligned business.

Let's dive in. Thank you so much for being here today. Oh, 

Joanna Choncer: thank you for having me, and I'm super, super excited that one we got to meet at that event, and two, that you felt the pull to invite me onto your podcast. Super, super grateful and excited to have a chat. 

Amanda Parker: Well, I have to say, your energy just stood out in the room because I could really just feel how grounded and centered you were and.

That really stands out. And [00:03:00] especially in a world where so many people are building businesses online and in public and trying to build a public persona and a brand, I'm definitely in the business of building a brand, so I get it. Um, but it's very often not really grounded or aligned with the person.

Something is always a bit off. So it was really notable that you were so grounded in who you are. Thank you for 

Joanna Choncer: reflecting it back to me because, um, it took me years to get to this point, to be honest with you, and to have that mirror back, um, I like, as you probably noticed, you know, it took a second to go like, okay, wow.

Um, and I agree with you. You know, it takes, it takes a lot to build a business, especially as a woman. There is not only so much of. The physical requirement to build an actual business, make money, make profit, et cetera, et cetera, but to also feel grounded [00:04:00] and anchored and so deeply connected to yourself and remember that you are powerful as a, and let that lead the way versus us women hustling and grinding and getting disconnected, getting ungrounded and, you know, the whole business journey.

Feeling like, what the f am I doing? Which, you know, in, in my career, that's what my clients come to me with. Like, they have passion, they have drive, they have massive mission like yourselves, and I would say kind of the word I'm looking for, and not disturbed, but distracted by the shiny object syndrome.

You know, the strategies, the tactics, they forget how much easier. It is to build a grounded, powerful business by fully being locked in yourself. 

Amanda Parker: That's so beautiful. And I can resonate completely with [00:05:00] what you describe as happening with your clients because that's something I've experienced. You know, I started my business seven years ago and the highs and lows have been wild.

And I think so much of the journey is just trying to figure out, first of all, what actually feels best and rooted for you and find, I'd say like people you can really trust to guide you on that process because there's such a huge noise machine out there that wants to tell you the best way to do this or the best way to do that, and it's constant noise.

And when you condense that with that, you need to be public and visible and online, you're just putting yourself in exposure. It really is like exposure therapy every day. So. It's really powerful. Um, first I'd say that you, and we're gonna get into this 'cause I really wanna understand, you know, how you got to where you are, but that you were able to, let's say, overcome [00:06:00] that noise machine yourself.

Maybe you never fell prey to it, I don't know. Um, and that you actually found a way to support people to be able to do that as well. But I just want people to understand first because, you know, we are talking about healing and the way that people can really work through personal growth and transformation.

And what I find most interesting is that you have this, uh, these healing tools and there is that spiritual side of what you do, but that you are so grounded. So maybe you can share just a bit about what that, like what is that healing medicine that you're offering through your work? I think to me. I 

Joanna Choncer: mean, just briefly sharing my journey, you know, with healing.

I mean, I've been on a massive self-healing journey since 2000, oh my gosh, 11, I think 13, I can't remember properly now. So to come back to this space now, where like you've noticed, you know, you're so grounded and you're so powerful and you're so [00:07:00] kind of together, and you can feel that on an energy, on an energetic level.

It took me years to come back to who I truly was. That's number one. And I know that sounds so cliche, like, you know, remember, remember who, who you are. But I had to dig in and out of, you know, trauma, alcohol abuse, witnessed in my family and how that impacted me emotionally. How that disconnected me from remembering who I was.

Um, coming back to recognizing how emotionally. Distorted my body was how triggered I constantly was, how my physical health was suffering because of that. So, you know, to me, healing took years of coming back to me and me deciding that, you know what, from now on, I am the creator of my own reality. I'm also the creator [00:08:00] of my own business.

I am the creator of, I'm getting goosebumps now of the clients that I want to be working with. I am literally creator of my entire life. And how that translates into business and working with clients just to, you know. Give your, um, your audience and your viewers, a bit of understanding is to turn what you see as limitations, what you experienced as something that is so painful, so raw, and perhaps, you know, you might still be going through this journey right now and your healing into something that you will never, ever allow you to hold you back.

I held back for so long to, you know, my healing journey was long, like 12 years of holding onto resentment, holding onto shame, holding onto guilt. And it's as, as you were doing a beautiful meditation before we started, I just had a, you know, a thought dropping into my head. So how beautiful that we're doing this interview in my hometown where most of the trigger was present, you know, [00:09:00] for all those 12 years.

And it's kind of like a, you know, a healing in itself that we're talking about this now, but coming back to what I was sharing before, it was turning your story into a power magnet. I believe that every single one of us has got a powerful story, has got a row story that might be feeling painful to you right now, but there is gold.

There is wisdom, there is absolute freedom that you can share with somebody else and perspective that you may think, well, it was just, you know, I just experienced, you know, one of my parents' alcohol problems. Well, if you actually start speaking with people, how many people experience the same and cannot make what you know, who they are, what they experience, how they see the world through those lenses.

And you know, when I started sharing my business, that was my main, let's call a brand story. I started running my business not as an intuitive business mentor, but I qualified as first as a healer, [00:10:00] and later on as a nutritional therapist. So I combined the two because I deeply, deeply believed that my own gut health issues that were.

The result of growing up in, you know, such an environment, we're not responding only to the nutritional therapy. I had to get deeper. And in recognizing that story through, you know, years and years of unraveling bits and pieces, I got to see, oh my gosh, like there is so much power in what I've gone through.

And it's not to say that I constantly have to speak about the pain that I've gone through, because now I transformed it into power. The reason why now I am so grounded and so, you know, I'm, I'm able to hold a level of certainty of conviction in my work and in who I am is because I had to face the D players of shame and guilt and fear and resentment and anger, so that I could now be in power regardless of what's happening outside of me, regardless.

How my [00:11:00] business is, you know, because I too have ups and downs. I too have higher days, I have lower days. But I made it absolutely non-negotiable that I will always aim to remain grounded and in remembering who I am no matter what's happening on the outside. That is 

Amanda Parker: so powerful. First of all, when you were describing that you also have ups and downs.

I was like, whew, thank God. Not that I wish the downs on you, of course, but No, but I think it's, um, I think it's a real gift to be able to take what are sometimes really painful experiences to be able to face them and see them. And I also think, 'cause you're telling us here, like really vulnerably, which I really appreciate, you know, part of that origin story of how you got started in this work.

But it's also like. My experience of [00:12:00] you and how you show up online and in your work, that's not your central theme. And I find that also really fascinating because I think for so many people they're, they're using the pain as the story. And I can also understand why that's enticing or why that feels like it might be important.

And I guess if you're still in the thick of the pain, it might still be important 'cause it's so present for you still. But we have many different versions of stories of our lives that we can tell. And you know, growing up in an environment that it sounds like was quite difficult, you know, and being able to overcome that, that helps you to shape who you are.

And yet you still find an empowering way to support others that isn't just about Yeah. Continually reinforcing the pain. 

Joanna Choncer: I think if you had met me. Let's say seven years ago, that probably would've been, let's say, [00:13:00] my main story. But because I had an opportunity and I had the time to, you know, to tell the story so many times until there was no emotional charge anymore, and that's when I knew that I've healed that part of me.

There's a, there's a famous saying, and I can't remember who's it by, but it does say when you look at a memory from the past and if there's no more emotional trigger within you, you've truly healed. 

Amanda Parker: Wow. I love that. And, 

Joanna Choncer: and that's kind of, you know, where I am with that part of the story, and it, because of that healing.

It unlocked that next level of me being able to turn that pain into power, to turn the shame in, to turn the shame of growing up in an environment like that, into a determination and commitment to myself that I will treat myself, I will treat my body, I will treat my family with mo [00:14:00] utmost respect. Uh, you know, I, I had to go through the pain of resentment to grow compassion and look at every human being and every client who comes into my world, no matter what they're going through, is to look from the lenses of, I may not have gone through what you've gone through, but I have the emotional capacity to hold you in a moment of vulnerability and show you that there's power in it.

And I think that's. Moving on to the intuitive business mentoring and money energetics. Um, coach, it was me using, actually kind of moving through my story of experiencing, you know, emotional neglect, um, growing up in a country where communism was quite present until, you know, the late, let's call it eighties.

So on the subconscious level, I grew up with consciousness of limitations. You know, we can't afford it. We have to work really, really hard to deserve, to be worthy, to feel worthy. [00:15:00] So at some point I had to decide, like, I do not want to associate with number one, those beliefs, with that level of consciousness.

Um, and I will do whatever it takes to never ever create that for myself again. And that's how, I guess, you know, uh. That energetic power imprint that you can feel comes from the place of, let's call it weakness. I don't see it as weakness, weakness, but it's, it was, it wasn't a fun time for me, you know, where I constantly, exactly where I was constantly told, we can't afford it.

I have a desire, we can't afford it. I wanna go there. We can't afford it. So I said, I'll make it different. I'll make it, I'll work in a way, I'll change my mindset, I'll change my energy, I'll change my consciousness, and I'll stay committed to the process until it becomes my norm. And that's what I teach my clients, is the longer you allow yourself to use both ends of the [00:16:00] stick, you know, the bad and the good, the negative, and the positive.

Instead of just focusing on, you know, let's, let's heal the bad so we can feel good all the time. That's not the point. It's you being able to be on the swing and have the up and the down and still feeling powerful and still being able to see the goal, the wisdom of the situation, and use that towards your own advantage, because that's the, you know, that's the, the goal that we've all been given.

Amanda Parker: So when you were first, um, starting out on that journey, because I know you said that you were like, there's a path that you took. How did you first start in this energetic space? Did you first start with therapy? Like, what did that look like, those initial steps that you took from like, okay, I need to change how I'm living my life, or something about This really doesn't feel good.

Joanna Choncer: It, it's, oh, it's a funny story actually, because it had nothing to do with business and all to do with toxic [00:17:00] relationships that I was attracting. I ended up with probably five, if not six relationships, where every single time I was cheated on and you know, once as, let's call it an accident twice, you're starting to go, Hmm, three times?

Four times four. Okay. There's a pattern, and I know you're familiar with Data healing, and I, I remember it as yesterday. I was still in my old apartment in London and I was browsing through a Polish magazine that I had just brought back from, you know, from. Being on holiday in Poland. And I think at that time I didn't even appreciate that I was intuitive in any way.

Like I wasn't drawn to healing, I wasn't drawn to any sort of form like astrology, anything like that. I was just living my life, you know, going from toxic relationship to toxic relationship. And I remember holding this magazine in my hand and coming across an article, data Healing. And it's saying, you know, if, [00:18:00] if there are patterns in your life that are reoccurring forever and ever and ever, and you keep attracting the same things over again, there are unconscious and subconscious limiting beliefs that are drawing these, you know, these people and these circumstances to you.

And I just remember in that moment, uh, seeing a picture of a teacher who was holding a theta healing class. In London and it was within three days, I think it was the weekend. Um, and I, within a second, I just knew, like it was a knowing in the body that I just couldn't fight. I was said to myself, I need to be on that.

I need to be on that training. And I was working at that time, like I had full graphic of clients. I said, how am I going to do this? And, you know, 12 years ago it was already then when I learned about the power of creation using your thoughts and just deciding and commanding the universe to arrange its way for you to make that happen.

And that's exactly what happened. Um, I dunno how, but my entire calendar was cleared. [00:19:00] I went onto the training and I never looked back because I then learned, oh my gosh, you know, it was my childhood, how my relationship with men that then contributed to attracting these toxic relationships. Um, you know, and having father figure in my life present either, I just really saw it and it, it wasn't, you know, back then that, it just all made sense because it was actually up until recently, probably a year ago when the final penny dropped, um, that I realized, oh wow, okay.

We are really the creators of our lives. That's, that's kind of how. How 

Amanda Parker: my healing journey started. That's amazing. I love the synchronicity of it. I've had experiences like, like that where there just happens to be this thing I was actually telling. Um, so I do a lot of Shamanic courses and trainings. I've been doing it for maybe like two and a half years.

And [00:20:00] the teacher that I work with here in London, I was telling her when I first signed up, I had sort of been looking for Shamanic courses, but I didn't really know what I was looking for and I didn't find anything. Like nothing came up. I'm living in North London, nothing was showing up. And then one day I did a search again and there was a chorus taking place like in a week or two.

And it just happened to be in the same, you know, like postcode where I was living and I'm like. Have I been targeted? Like I really, so I actually gave a fake address and a fake phone number when I signed up for the training because I'm like, I don't even know if this is real. What if this is a hoax? Like I was so convinced there was no way that it was like so convenient and that I could make it.

And then of course I went and it was delightful and she's like, oh, you flew in from Germany. I did used to live in Germany, so I gave my old address. To be fair. She's like, oh, you flew in from Germany. I'm like, no, I live down the road [00:21:00] actually. So I love that, um, you followed that nudge that like the training was happening, you knew in that moment.

And I did wanna ask you before we continue on, if you can just say a bit what Theta healing is. 'cause there might be people Yeah. Who just are not familiar with that at all. 

Joanna Choncer: Sure. So Theta healing is a form of, um, modality that uses particularly, um, theta brainwave, which is a brainwave that, uh, our brain naturally produces just before we go to sleep.

And as soon as we wake up, which is actually the best time to reprogram our subconscious mind. So this is, you know, a really great time where we can do some healing on ourselves or even clients. Uh, but it's an amazing time to use affirmations if you wanna go straight to your subconscious and override any limiting beliefs that you currently have.

It's, it's an excellent modality, works so, so, so fast, and I loved it. I loved it, you know, as soon as I learned it. Um. I guess it was just [00:22:00] a, a great way to, to remember that we have the power to literally change, like we, you know, before I even learned about the whole nervous system, brain neuroplasticity, that we have control over what goes in to our brain even, you know, if we're 40 and even later.

And even later. Absolutely. 

Amanda Parker: So is that, okay, so you did this, the Atta training course, and I, I mean, I'm really curious to hear what kind of shifts took place for you when you started to recognize Yeah. Really your own power as a creator, and you started to actually learn that you had the ability to change the way that you felt and to change your lived experience in the world.

Joanna Choncer: I think the first thing that I started noticing was. How, number one, how different I felt that I no longer, or I would say no longer [00:23:00] felt as much of a victim. And I'm, I'm gonna just explain that bit a little bit. 'cause uh, you know, some people when they hear, oh, I'm a victim. When I say that, I stopped feeling as much of a victim as I was before I recognized that.

It wasn't so much what was happening to me that made me who I am, but it was how I was interpreting what happened to me. And data healing allowed me to switch that around. And I went from, I cannot believe they did it again. I cannot believe the pastor did it again to going and saying, and feeling, I understand.

I understand how this happened. Because I went to see like, okay, I wasn't really loving myself. I wasn't really holding a high enough standard for the type of. A man that was attracting into my life. I wasn't honoring my boundaries. I was kind of a bit, you know, a bit of a pushover in, in my life up until [00:24:00] that point.

So when that started shifting, I started exuding those boundaries and saying, I'm not available for that anymore. Um, I started saying, okay, these are my non-negotiable things that I'm gonna put on my list to what, to who it is that I am open, willing, and available to attract. And any anyone who comes that has any of the red flags, no, thank you very much.

Um, you know, to later on in live noticing that actually it's the people that started treating me completely differently. But why is because I started treating myself differently. I started seeing myself in a completely different way. And I, you know, I know it's so cliche to say, well, all the self-love, but that is true.

Like, if we cannot it, it really starts with us. You know, you can go and, and explore healing with different healers. You can come into business coaching as well. But my main aim in my business and working with clients is to remind you that [00:25:00] you have that power. I never, ever, ever want any of my clients to be the dependent on me or codependent on me.

My job is to remind you to mirror back the power that I've embodied and, and remind you that, hey, when you shift how you see yourself, and I often use a a term, you know, when you are ready to put yourself on a pedestal, not because you're arrogant, but because you recognize that you are the most important person in your life.

Nobody else, everybody else benefits when you actually put yourself on a pedestal because they get to, you know, explore that energy and bathe in that energy. And instead of seeing you as who the f she thinks she is, they, they, they are mirror back. That power. And I am, it's, it's, I just have to say this because you, you know, when you're doing a beautiful meditation at the beginning and you said, what's the intention?

And I heard the message. I think where my mission, like the next part of the mission is, is that I really wanna show [00:26:00] women that there is no need for jealousy. There is no need for seeing somebody else as competition. There is no need for vile comments or hate in, you know, in inside the entrepreneurial world is when we as women are able to lift each other up, show each other that, Hey, you can be powerful too, without stealing any of my light or me stealing any of your light.

Holy shit, we can change the world. Like, you know, it's so common to say in the spiritual lingo, I'm here to raise the frequency, but do you actually know what that means? You'll raise the frequency of the planet when you and another woman is able to, you know, to hold hands and like, let's fucking do it. 

Amanda Parker: Oh, I love that.

Um, and it feels like I can really feel the, the strength in that calling. I, I'm, I'm curious because I really wonder, this is gonna sound naive, but I'll go with it anyway, like, [00:27:00] I don't feel as exposed to the, like, jealousy or infighting with women. I don't know if it's just the nature of, I don't know if that's even true.

I'm like really evaluating as I'm saying it out loud, but I don't feel that as strongly. But I know it's a thing. I've heard about it, I've seen it, I have experienced it in some moments. But is that something that's really. So prevalent even today, like it's really present that people, your eyes just got wide.

So go on. 

Joanna Choncer: Is it prevalent? I think it is, and it's funny 'cause as, as you were asking this question, the response that I, that came to me and, and, and, you know, take it or leave it. I think if you are, if anyone not, is not experiencing any kind of jealousy projected onto you or hate projected onto you, because we, we both know it, it doesn't like, it's not coming from the heart, it's just coming from the, the ego [00:28:00] self, which is fighting to see that power in you.

Right? So it will project, it'll project those emotions because it cannot yet see that. You can be that too. You can be that person too. And if you aren't experiencing the level of that yet, you are probably not being truthful enough. Into what you're sharing online. So that's kind of, or, or, or you are not probably giving yourself an opportunity to go to a level of boldness or level of audacity or authority to say, this is what I believe in God, 

Amanda Parker: I feel called out now, but you're, you're not wrong.

That, that resonates and it's definitely for me, um, the jealousy thing I experience sometimes from me to others and from others to me. Just not specifically with women. I guess that's, that's it. But, uh, sometimes with women, sometimes with men, and I get so triggered that can happen. Absolutely. That can happen with men.

I know it's a mirror, but I get so triggered when I'm like, [00:29:00] just back off. Go do your own thing. And then meanwhile I'm like, look how far this person has come. So 

Joanna Choncer: it can happen with men as well. I mean, I've experienced funny enough that more with men than women, and I completely understand why. And you know, I, I don't take it personally anymore.

I used to. Um, and I think if I share this, this may resonate with a lot of women. You know, when I say jealousy, that was actually one of my biggest shadows for me because for many, many years, you know, coming from a post communistic country. I was so used to working hard physically instead of tapping into our God-given resource that is, you know, this beautiful feminine energy of creation and tapping into our womb and et cetera, et cetera.

I was so used to working hard. So it's actually no wonder that when I first started my business and moved into, you know, the proper, let's say business coaching, um, moving on from the nutritional therapy business, [00:30:00] I was so on it in terms of following strategies and templates and launches and, you know, five steps to this follow this launch routine to the point that I actually burnt out because I forgot how to lead my business with my intuition, with my feminine.

Natural life force for, you know, creative force that if, if I was to actually allow that to lead me while still being supported with strategies and systems, it would've been a completely different journey. But I'm so grateful for having done it this way because now I understand why, for example, male coaches or male business coaches get triggered.

When I say, and when I speak to women and say, you know, there's a, there's a much better way to build your business and feel. And for it to feel effortless, for it to feel a, let's call it, aligned, for it to feel divine. Where instead of burning out and hustling and chasing clients and posting, posting, [00:31:00] posting and being visible and doing all of the things, and you're like, ah, you know, I mean, I don't have children myself, but I can only imagine how hard it is for, for, you know, for, for female entrepreneurs who have children who may not have additional help to help them, like you are literally growing another baby.

'cause business, I see business as growing a baby. So when they hear my, or see my messages, they, you know, they often leave comments like, you know, that's a lot of bullshit, et cetera, et cetera. I'm like, Hey, these are my case studies. You know, that probably isn't a bullshit, but you know, that's, that's not on me to change your mind.

Um, I'm here to show women regardless and whoever is ready to tap into that way of building a business where you are being led by. The force within you that you were giving as a woman, Hey, come to, you know, come to this playground because I, I prefer having a lot of fun, uh, doing what I love and showing you that you're able to do that too instead of hustling, burning out and for your business to feel like the last thing you wanna do the minute you wake up.

Amanda Parker: So it's a [00:32:00] perfect segue to getting an understanding of like, how you're supporting clients. So what's, you know, someone comes in, what's a typical challenge? Or maybe there's a couple that people would come into you with. 

Joanna Choncer: The first thing that, I mean, the type of a client that I tend to work with are female entrepreneurs who are already, let's say, let's call it a minimum five to eight K.

You know, whether that's dollars, whether that's pound, but you were essentially, you're already having clients, you're seeing clients. Um, income is sort of regular. It's not as consistent as, as you would love it to be. And you got there by working hard. You got there by, okay, podcast launch, let me do YouTube, let me do reels, let me do TikTok.

And it's like, what else can I do? And you have that desire and you have that desire to reach more people. And at the same time you're recognizing, holy shit, if I did it this way and it didn't feel great, how can I do it this way? And [00:33:00] how I support my clients is we look at the ways that you got your result to where, you know, to where you are right now, but now shifting who you are being rather than what you're doing.

Because when you focus on who you are being, and that's, you know, um, I mean it's again, such a general statement, but I look at mindset, you know, what are your beliefs about? Who it is that you believe you are, what you're capable of creating, what you think is possible for you to create. Um, whether you are tapped into creative life force at all, whether you're solely relying on strategies and systems, and, and I show you different ways of how you can tap into that feminine life force within you that power, the power of creation, the power of commanding, literally the universe too.

Just like you said in your story, you know, I dunno how it happened, but it just appear, well, it's not really a miracle. It's literally neuroscience in real life, right? You form your thoughts, [00:34:00] um, you form your thoughts, you focus on them long enough. They say 64 seconds, um, continuously on one thought, and boom, it manifests, right?

That, that's, that's kind of like when a woman recognizes that you have such a power and it doesn't require you to do hundred of things. You get to scale so much faster, so much easier, and it all feels. Effortless. I mean, it doesn't feel easy. I'm, I don't wanna sound like, oh, you just, you know, you're bathing in Bahamas and, uh, but the most common thing that my clients say is that, oh my gosh, like I am making more right now, doing a 10th of what I used to do in the past.

And that's purely because we maximize the skills, the energetic power, their, their gifts, their genius, their zone of genius. And we focus solely on that. And you know, I think it [00:35:00] kind of comes to, to the next kind of thing of, you know, me helping my clients with their zone of genius. This was my journey for a very long time.

I used to do a lot of things helping clients with all sorts of things, but the minute I focused on the intuitive business building energetics and aligning your energy with your self concept in and your remembrance of that, you are the creator. That's when everything just blew up. So the minute you focus on your zone of juniors, and I'm very good at reading that, channeling that for you and spotting exactly where you should be focusing your energy and where you actually immediately should stop.

That's actually draining your energy. That's when the scaling becomes so much easier. 

Amanda Parker: So people would typically come to you and you'd work together, I guess, over a longer period. So you like, 'cause I'm like listening to you talk. I'm like, I, I could imagine people might be like, okay, a zone of genius call, please sign up.

It depends. 

Joanna Choncer: Depends. It depends. So I have kind of, let's call them different [00:36:00] offers I offer, let's say even single sessions, I call them next level, next level timeline, business session where I can look at your business and within let's say an hour tell you which offers are aligned, which offers aren't aligned, where is it that your energy and power is leaking currently, and let's say what mindset shift you can implement straight away to have a drastic impact.

On your results, we get to focus on the type of messaging that you are not communicating. So we have level, you know, that that level of true audacity and authority that you get to communicate. Uh, but I also have longer containers, so it really depends, you know, whichever, whatever stage you come to meet me in my business, I will kind of almost intuitively know.

'cause I don't always go like, well, let's go for a year. You know, some people may not need that. Some people just may need that quick burst of like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And some people, depending on what their goals are, may need six months, may meet 12 months. 

Amanda Parker: So if [00:37:00] someone does come in, then, because this is a question I always love to ask when people come on, you know, let's say someone really comes in for a session.

What does a session look like? Like what are they doing with you? Is it they're sending you a business plan? Are they just coming in, sitting on, you know, the couch and going, why isn't this working? You know, how does that look typically? 

Joanna Choncer: So that typically looks is that I like to sort of have some 3D business info about you or like, uh, obviously I'm able to tap into intuitively what obviously process permission, um, into like the energetic blueprint of your business and where, what it is that you want to create, where you would like to go.

That is so 

Amanda Parker: cool. 

Joanna Choncer: Um, so I can actually see your, your next level timeline, um, and being able to then match that with your goal. Um, we will look at your offer. So I'll ask you, you know, what offers do you currently have available that you would like to focus on more? Selling and I will tune into, for example, the messaging behind it.

So all of this will obviously be, be provided [00:38:00] by you, but I will tune into the messaging and I will sense, I literally feel like I'll look at words. I'm like, this doesn't make sense. This isn't tangible enough. Let's make it more tangible, let's say this way. And when clients implement that messaging straight into their business, they notice like, well, that's exactly what I wanted to say.

Um, you know, we'll look at pricing. I, you know, I have so many clients who come to me we're like, oh, I don't know if I can charge this much. Or sometimes the price is too high for the level of value that they're communicating. So we're, you know, we'll align that. Um, I very often download. There are new offers.

I'm like, this is what's coming to me. Like, like, are you offering this right now? And like, oh my gosh, like, I've been thinking about this for years, and, but I've just been scared to, you know, to promote this. I'm like, this needs to be birthed, like ASAP or this needs some tweaking for a little bit of time.

Um, that's usually kind of what happens. I, I, I, you know, I, I use precision, I use premium messaging and really just [00:39:00] zoning in onto your business based on that next level. If you say, let's, okay, Joanna, next month, I really wanna make 30 K months. You know, how do I make that happen? Okay, let's, let's, let's move backwards.

Let's go to what your next level offer is. And like, just to give you an example, I had a client two weeks ago who said, well, I wanna make 30 K months. I said, okay, what is the offer that you wanna promote? And it turned out to be, uh, uh, no, like a $97. Masterclass she wanted to offer. I said, well, how many, you know, how many followers do you have?

How many people do you have on your email list? And it turned out that she really didn't have enough. It's not that it was impossible for her to reach that goal, but I said, can you see like how much harder it was going to be to take this $97 masterclass and turn it into 30 K? And we looked at her other office, I'm like, this is what's really like, feeling juicy.

Have you thought of, [00:40:00] you know, showing it this way? And, and she looked, I was like, wow, okay. No, not really. And when we did that, 30 K happened, but it wasn't through the original idea that she had. We had to align. Like I really had to show her like, this is gonna be so much harder. This is way easier. So we got the messaging aligned, we got the offer aligned, we got the whole sort of, let's call it launch plan aligned and it happened so much easier.

Amanda Parker: So it sounds like people can really come and it's, it is a, on the one hand, a troubleshooting, but also looking into the future and that you're able to help them tap into that real desire and their own gifts in a way that they haven't been able to see themselves and maybe didn't have the confidence or like enough support to like really believe they could bring that to life, but that they're actually able to see what's possible to try it out.

And they know they also have your support in the background. Like, yes, you can do this. It's [00:41:00] possible. 

Joanna Choncer: Totally. Because, you know, I'm a huge believer and this is what came from experience, that the reason why we have any desire, whether that's 30 K months, whether that is going to Hawaii, any desire whatsoever, is because that desire already exists fulfilled.

Just a different dimension. It's just a different universe. There's a version of you who's already experiencing that right now, like it's already done and we don't even have to question it. What the job is now is like, how can we bridge that gap between now and that next version of you who's already enjoying that?

How can we bring, you know, your mindset so that how you think aligns with the version of you who's already like, she knows it's possible. Well, it's already done, right? How can we align the type of actions that you take, the type of word that you use to actually verbalize the power of that offer and when you move?

That's why I love [00:42:00] my timeline session so much is because I really show you, it's not even the possibility. It's like this is already done, so you move from the energy of like, well, if this is already done. I will no longer move from like, well, what if it doesn't work? Like it will only not work if you give up right here, but it's already done.

So how about we move from the end of excitement? Let's see what happens. Let's see how many people say yes. And let's just have fun. That's what I love. You know, the, the power of manifestation to me is not like sitting and meditating and visualizing. I come into my business and into working with my clients as how about we have some fun?

Because as children, we were having time all the time. We're using our visualization skills all of the time. I'm gonna be an astronaut, I'm gonna be this, I'm gonna be that. And as we grew up, we've actually forgotten the power of imagination. We've forgotten the power of our [00:43:00] words. You know, there's, there's a reason, um, for, oh my gosh, what's that quote?

Um. Obviously the words basically, uh, become the words, oh, it's gonna come back to me, but there's a really famous quote. Yeah, you'll get it. 

Amanda Parker: We'll edit it in later. We'll edit in later. 

Joanna Choncer: Um, but also, you know, the power of, of feelings, like se you know, the feeling is the secret as per, what's his name? Ne Neville Goddard.

The feeling is in, you know, the feeling is the secret. So when you aligned your thoughts, your beliefs, your feelings with your actions, that's why the result has, like, it is inevitable because you're moving in alignment with your goal. 

Amanda Parker: I know that there's definitely, uh, you know, more than a handful of healers who are listening, um, who might be struggling to figure out how, I mean, not just healers, right?

It's also a, actually a lot of creators as well, like creatives, um, are [00:44:00] struggling to figure out how they can take. This particular piece of work that they believe in, that they're growing and actually make it work so that they can pay their bills with it. Like a lot of people, and I know this has happened also in my coaching practice, 'cause I, I started my business, um, in leadership development.

So I had a lot of clients who actually left either corporate jobs or businesses they were running and are now more in healing businesses or creative businesses. And these are the questions that are like, so how would you, I mean maybe even it's words of advice. 'cause it's obviously they're not sitting in front of you for you to help channel specifically what they need, but how might they start to get outta that?

Mindset of almost defeat or frustration or scarcity into a place where they really believe that they can make it happen for themselves. 

Joanna Choncer: I love this question and honestly, like I could go on about this for hours, so please stop me, [00:45:00] but I think the here we are. The best advice that I could give you without, you know, you even needing to come into the session with me is remembering that you are the creator of your own life.

Now let me unpack this because this is, you know, such a cliche, um, statement. We create. There we go. I knew it would come back, ergo some. I think. Therefore, I am, for many, many years I didn't realize I was being a victim. Two, the external world, is it possible? Can I make it happen? Oh my gosh, how can I make this happen?

Can I make money based on this? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And, you know, insert all, everything that, that you know, you, your clients share and my clients share. Is it possible? But what if you know something happens? What if people start hating on me, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. When I say that I'm the creator of my own life, I am literally the creator of my own life.

The reflection that I see in the 3D is purely a reflection of all of my [00:46:00] beliefs that I have about myself as well as my reality. So if there is a part of me that up until now does not believe that I can make money from it, number one, I could go and say. From, let's say the motivational aspect of coaching says, well, you've been giving this talent, you've been giving this passion for a reason.

Right? But that's kind of, you know, people we hear are like, okay, but how? Right? How do I make that happen? So, coming back to being a creator, and I'm gonna bring a little bit of theta healing into this, and this is, you know, what I've been extensively studying for the last two years is the power of creation, power of manifestation, neuroplasticity, um, nervous system regulation.

Where I actually truly understood, and I'm still learning about this, but I understood it to the level where I actually had an evidence in my world happening so fast that I, I saw the [00:47:00] power of what it truly means to be a creator. And I really had to catch myself in those moments. Where can I make money off of it?

Of course I can, if Tiffany can sell a safety pin or a, um, what do you call these little things that you attach onto a page? Um, oh my gosh, bookmark for $799. You can make money off your gift. Okay. If Tiffany had the balls to sell this, that means you can make that to why? Because we're all creators, right?

So this is where the power of really conscious decision about what are the thoughts that I'm thinking on a day-to-day basis. And I know I'm gonna kind of like a little, add a little bit of fire, a little bit of petrol to the fire. 'cause I'm going to say, I know there is a lot of negative [00:48:00] feedback around affirmations.

I used to be that person too, who used to, you know, believe everyone's like, well, affirmations don't work. And I completely. Disagree with that. Affirmations and the power of manifestations have been the biggest game changer in my life. Learning the law of assumption, assuming things done before they appear, was how I started believing in intangible things before they even appeared, when they became just an idea.

So, you know, if you're a healer, if you are a someone who's just starting out and you're passionate about your business, that years ago or months ago was probably just an idea, right? But you are focusing your attention, and this is where the power of quantum physics, physics comes in. You know, when you focus your attention, your energy onto something, it materializes.

So if you focus on your attention on saying to yourself, this is working out. People love to pay me. I get paid every single day. Clients [00:49:00] love to give me their money. You create amazing results in our lives. You know, I love myself 'cause I, I'm also a big, big, big believer on, rather than kind of using affirmations to affect the external, I focus always on myself.

First, I focus on my self concept and what I believe I am able to create as a creator. You know, so, uh, I, I focus, I, throughout these two years, I really focused on like, you know, I live abundantly. People love to pay me. I love getting paid. I love receiving money. My, you know, my value is immeasurable. Um, the gift that I share with the world has no price tag to it.

People love, they, they, they are looking for. So I, I, I hope this gives, you know, a bit of, um, sort of introduction to go like, okay, well if this is what you truly want to make a living out of, then you also need to believe that it's absolutely, totally possible and it's totally doable. And you really, I'm gonna use the word, you have to kind of tuck yourself into brain wash yourself until it [00:50:00] truly becomes your reality.

And that is something that, you know, I teach, um, in my other programs, um, the power of the Law of assumption. 'cause it's not so much the law of attraction. Um, it's completely different aspect of that where you really train yourself to be like a walking, talking, thinking, feeling machine, where you also learn to disregard what you're seeing in the 3D world.

Because what you often see, like, okay, I'm affirming I'm a millionaire, but your bank account is like 400 pounds in overdraft, right? And your emotions going like, okay, what is happening? And, you know, that's, that's another conversation because that's, that's a part of the journey. But when you, when you are consistent enough and you are, you are committed enough and you're dedicated enough to make it work, it will honestly work.

I have so many case studies of things just manifesting out of the blue, only because my clients chose to believe that it's absolutely possible and it's already done. 

Amanda Parker: Can you give us one of the case studies now here? Yes. I 

Joanna Choncer: mean, I hope that H HMRC is not gonna watch this episode, but this [00:51:00] was probably the best manifestation.

So one of my clients had, um, I don't wanna lie, but she probably had about 8,000, uh, pounds worth of a. It wasn't specifically tax bill of her income. Um, she used to have sort of like a business, um, you know, proper brick and mortar business. And somehow through some different miscalculations, she got billed 8,000 pounds worth of a tax bill that she didn't have money to pay.

So we started, it was actually last year, it was during my first round of the money experience program, and she came to the program. I said, okay, focus on these affirmations. Imagine, you know, you are unseen. There's this, there's no bill. It's disappeared, like it's already taken care of. You don't really have to worry about it.

It's already done. And I remember it was the first week of the program, she messaged us in the group. I said, I've logged in into my HMRC account. Zero. It was showing zero, which basically proved to all of us, including myself, you know, every time like a manifestation like that happens, I'm like, [00:52:00] okay, this is, this is, this is real.

And we were all just blown away. Um, I mean, I've manifested, you know, free flight tickets, presents, clients, um, so many things. So many things. Honestly, my partner, oh my God, my partner is the, probably the best manifestation of, of, of them all. 

Amanda Parker: I, I love that. And I know that that's real, but it sounded like you just added him in with the tickets and the flights and like Yeah, and my partner, I put on top of that.

Um, and just to check, because I think this is also super powerful, and you mentioned that there was a bit of the theta healing in this, so people can work with affirmations, but if they're doing it in a bit of an altered state, like a bit in that theta brainwave state, it will be even more powerful. Yes.

Is that what I heard you say before? 

Joanna Choncer: It works. The, the reason why it works more powerful is because the minute we close our eyes and you know, it's, it's, you, like I do it as soon as I wake up and just before I go to bed, that's kind of where, where my [00:53:00] favorite time is. But even during the day, like if you don't have that flexibility and the time to do this, if you just lie down, close your eyes, set the timer for 10 minutes, and in your own mind's eye you start repeating.

Certain sentences, you know, over and over and over again. That's really powerful enough because I think nobody really explained what affirmations really, really are. They just said, well, these are just statements and you know, when you repeat them and like your body doesn't feel like it's true, it will immediately reject it.

Part of it is true, but this is where the consistency and perseverance has to happen because eventually, if we understand the principles of neuroplasticity, if, I mean, let's, let me just break it down really simply, we've believed, how can people say affirmations don't work if we've believed so many negative statements about ourselves for them to become true and manifest into our lives?

Right? Like, I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. Okay, we'll attract the client [00:54:00] who's gonna question you are not good enoughness, because you'll always get a reflection of what you believe in, like a mirror of what you believe in. So if you're telling me that I, by repeating negative statements have manifested this, I cannot manifest this by repeating a positive statement.

Of course I can, but that's why you know that being done in Data State works so much faster because there is less resistance from the conscious mind and you are much more relaxed. There's another thing, and again, you know this is another conversation for another day, but when you are actually spending time using affirmations and repeating positive statements in your own mind, what you are actually doing through the quantum physics perspective is you are using statements, you're using a frequency because words are frequency and vibrations.

You are using frequency vibrations from a level of consciousness where [00:55:00] that is already your norm. So what you are doing in that moment, you are literally becoming like your cells are hearing this. So even though you have skin and bones right now, and maybe your reality is like 400 pounds and overdraft doesn't matter because there's always a bit of a delay in the, you know, in the, in the 3D reality before things manifest.

You are starting to literally, as you go, become that version of you tap into the level of consciousness where there is no resistance. Where I am a millionaire, I get paid every single day. People love to pay me. People love what I do, I love myself. You know, my partner absolutely loves and adores me, but you have to do it for long enough so that you remain in that frequency and it basically comes your new identity.

Amanda Parker: So powerful. It makes me wanna like. Get off of this episode and go and write things down. I'm like, alright, I'm ready, charged up. So I can imagine people who are listening [00:56:00] are having exactly that same feeling. So you're definitely charging the air around us right now. Um, we're, we're coming close to the end, but I really wanted to ask you just to bring all of this home because the work that you're doing, I mean, I can, I can understand the healing power of it just by listening to you speak, but there's also something I'd love just to hear more explicitly from you.

Like, you know, how is this kind of work healing for people? Because I mean, I have my own experience of what it's like when my business isn't working or things aren't going how I hope, and I know there's so much potential, but I'd love to hear from your perspective, like what is that healing potential for someone who gets to experience.

This kind of work. 

Joanna Choncer: I think the potential is in the fact that, I mean, obviously healing, you know, the, this word can be interpreted by [00:57:00] every single person differently, right? The way that I saw healing back in 2013 was me focusing on what was wrong with me, what was blocking me? What were the blocks? To me attracting a man of my dreams, me getting more money, you know, it was like, what's in the way?

Versus, again, this comes back to quantum physics, and I, and I'll often cite this because, you know, for, for someone who's still a healer or, you know, from a, let's say like we're all spiritual, right? But if you're, if you're working solely in a spiritual realm, it's sometimes nice to just bring it back to the 3D, the quantum physics of actually understanding how our brain works.

Like this is a, this is electricity transmitter. So to me, healing and, and utilizing the knowledge of that is remembering that what I focus on expands. So if I focus on what's wrong with me, [00:58:00] why is my business not working? Why are clients not paying me and they're paying somebody else? Why am I experiencing this?

Why is this, why, why, why, why, why, why, why? Number one, you're in a victim energy because you're giving the power away to what is happening outside versus, okay, if I am focusing constantly on this, and I remember that what you focus on expands. And if I focus on healing my blocks, guess what I'm going to attract and create more of, more blocks to heal, more things to find what's wrong with me and transform them into power.

Right? Uh, the, I, I, I really just wanna say like, I don't see anything wrong with healing. Absolutely not, because it's like, I've gone through this. The reason why I am where I am today is because I was dev devoted to healing. But, and here's a big, big, big, but, and I think this bit, that's probably where my mission is as well too, to challenge the healing industry to say there comes [00:59:00] in time and space where you've done enough, you've done more than enough healing, you've learned more than enough modalities.

And by constantly focusing on what's wrong with you, what else you need to heal, what else you need to overcome, what else you need to add to your toolkit to feel like a good enough healer or good enough person to charge x or good enough to say this. You and, and this is what I did. You have to get to the point where you say, I've had enough.

I'm done. That's not to say that you are not here to grow and expand and learn new things. Absolutely not. Like I love learning new stuff, but there came a time and space where I had to decide, do you know what? I'm not available for the belief that I still have to do something in order to receive something.

That's not our frequency, that's not our divine frequency. If we look at babies, the minute they're born, their pure consciousness, they receive [01:00:00] just, I'm getting goosebumps now, which is amazing. Confirmation they receive solely because they exist. I really want the let that, let that land. For many people, you, and this is, this has always been our frequency, always and still will be until the day we die.

We receive just because we exist. So when it comes to healing, the minute you realize that there is no more actual healing that you need to do, only coming back to the remembrance of how powerful you are, something within you will shift. That was the moment to, for me, when I truly recognize my power, I decided to essentially choose the focus.

I moved away from What's another block? Why isn't it not happening to go? Of course they pay me. Of course, they love what I do. Of course, everything happens to me. Everything, you know, everything that happens to me is a blessing. Even if my logical mind will look at the [01:01:00] outside wall and say, it's an absolute shit, I was just like, this is happening.

This is happening for my highest good. And honestly, when I say, trust me when I say even in the most. Negative circumstances when I held to the belief this situation is happening only because I'm about to get exactly what I want, that thing happened. So that to me is the healing, is choosing to decide where your focus goes and the minute you choose to focus, like I'm already good enough, I receive for being me.

I am valuable enough as a human being, as a, as a spirit, as a soul embodied in this human body. I should and do receive just because I exist. You'll drop the need for healing and will embody a level and, and an identity of a person who actually is the creator of her life. 

Amanda Parker: What a powerful [01:02:00] message that you have given us.

And yeah, I'm really letting that land this. Understanding that we get to choose. And that's the healing in itself, that we also get to decide how we want our experience to feel. And when you recognize that that's possible, like, wow, well, holy shit, 

Joanna Choncer: we've always, I can do it. We've always had choice, always had choice, always will have choice.

Um, and that's, I think that's just what people need to remember, right? Like you are always choosing, we're always, every single second of day 24 7, we're always choosing what we're focusing on. You can either focus on the lack or abundance. Like, I, I really just wanna say this and thank you for this opportunity because that this interview in itself is so abundant.

It's an opportunity for me to share my message, you know, what I truly believe and what I've gone through. Let's say the level of [01:03:00] truth that is, is being channeled through me with the people who will resonate with this and tie it back together to, to what you asked about, making it an abundant business.

You know, believing that you can get paid, and me coming back to me saying, feeling is the secret. Woo. Getting goosebumps again, I love this because here we're, this is the level of creation, or if I can feel abundant before I have the evidence, which I am feeling right now, like this is such an amazing opportunity for having the visibility through your amazing podcast, guess what's going to happen?

The ripple effect of this is gonna come in ways that my logical mind cannot even comprehend right now. All I have to do is feel abundant now, which I am. 

Amanda Parker: I appreciate that too. Let the abundance come 

Joanna Choncer: in to all of us. 

Amanda Parker: Yeah. I really wish we had more time. I know we are at the limit. It's gonna be part two.

Watch out. Yeah, exactly. Um, so just for people who [01:04:00] are listening who are obviously now inspired because I can already feel that, how can they get in touch with you? Where can they find you? 

Joanna Choncer: I am pretty much all over. Social media can find me everywhere. No, um, the best place to find me is obviously Instagram.

Um, I do have a LinkedIn account, so if you just, um, Google me, Joanna Choncer, I'm gonna share some links with, um, you, Amanda. So, um, the platform that I'm kind of most visible is, um. Instagram and Facebook as well. I do have an account on TikTok. I do have an account on, um, LinkedIn, and I have my YouTube channel too, so you can find me there.

And I have my own website too. 

Amanda Parker: We're gonna link to all of that in the show notes. So for people who are listening who wanna learn more, Joanna is not only doing the one-on-one work, but she's also often hosting different challenges and mini programs. Like I'm watching your Instagram all the time, like, oh my God, this looks amazing.

So you'll have plenty of opportunities to both [01:05:00] learn and work with her. And I just wanna say a huge thank you for sharing your story so generously, like all these different twists and turns that you've been on, and this incredible wisdom that you've tapped into, I have goosebumps head to toe. I know this message is really gonna resonate with so many people.

So thank you for being here with us today. 

Joanna Choncer: Mm. Thank you for, you know, for inviting me to have this chat. I, I, you know, I've had goosebumps from head to toe throughout the whole podcast, so I, I truly believe and trust that it was, you know, it was meant to be. And this will have an amazing ripple effect on.

The rest of the people and the world that this podcast touches. Um, the Hearts episode, yeah. Thank you so much 

Amanda Parker: and to everyone who is listening here with us, thank you for tuning into this week's episode of Don't Step On The Bluebells, and I'll see you next time. Thanks for tuning into today's episode of Don't Step On The Bluebells.

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