How Horses Reflect What We Can't See About Ourselves with Sue Willoughby (#046)

What if your biggest breakthrough wasn't hiding in another therapy session or self-help book, but waiting for you in the eyes of a 1,200-pound animal who can see right through every story you tell yourself? In this revelatory conversation, certified EQU coach Sue Willoughby introduces us to the transformative world of equine-assisted coaching, where horses become our most honest teachers and mirrors for the parts of ourselves we can't quite see.

Here's what makes horses such powerful catalysts for change: they're prey animals, which means every cell in their body is wired to detect truth. They sense the gap between what you're saying and what you're actually feeling. They'll walk away when you're trying too hard to be liked, push into your space when your boundaries are weak, and come close the moment you finally let go of your agenda.

As Sue explains, "Our bodies hold every experience that we've ever had, that's what the horses are seeing and feeling and becoming part of." This isn't intellectual understanding—it's embodied wisdom that can accomplish in ten minutes what might take months in traditional talk therapy. Amanda shares her own powerful experience of desperately wanting horses to approach her, only to have them ignore her completely until she released all expectation and simply sat down in surrender. Within moments, two horses walked right up to her—a visceral lesson in how neediness repels connection that no amount of reasoning could have taught.

Sue's journey from finding refuge in barns as a child to becoming a master facilitator reveals how horses have always offered us their greatest gift: non-judgmental presence. Whether it's the young person who finally found safety to speak their truth, the executive discovering that authentic leadership looks nothing like corporate performance, or the midlife woman rediscovering who she is beneath decades of playing roles—horses create the space for us to stop performing and start being real. The work extends beyond individual healing into team dynamics, boundary setting, leadership development, and that most precious skill: learning to be fully present in our own lives.

If you've been doing your inner work but feel like something's still not clicking, if you're tired of intellectually understanding your patterns without being able to shift them, or if you're simply curious about what truth a horse might reflect back to you—this episode offers a doorway into a different kind of transformation. Sue leaves us with a profound invitation: "Be the horse. Start being curious about everything. Start looking at the world through beginner's eyes." What might change if you approached your life with that kind of openness? Listen to discover why the arena might be exactly where your next breakthrough is waiting.

How to Get in Touch:

• Website: willoughbycoaching.com
• Email: sue@willoughbycoaching.com
• Podcast: Midlife Strategies for Badass Women - https://www.midlifebadasswomen.com/

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2. Get your FREE Inner Wisdom Playbook here.
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Transcript

Sue Willoughby: [00:00:00] Our bodies hold every experience that we've ever had, and that's what the horses are seeing and feeling and becoming part of, so they're seeing what's really going on inside of us, and it's very experiential.

Amanda Parker: Welcome to Don't Step On the Bluebells, the podcast for personal healing and transformation takes center stage. I'm your host, Amanda Parker, and I'm a fellow seeker on the journey of personal growth. Join me as I delve into the stories of gifted healers, guides, and everyday people who have experienced remarkable transformations.

Listen in as they share their practical wisdom to enrich your everyday life. And don't forget to hit, subscribe, and never miss a new episode. Welcome to today's episode of Don't Step On the Bluebells. I am here with the remarkable Sue Willoughby, who is a truth teller, a boundary [00:01:00] breaker, and a certified Equus coach who helps women over 40 stop playing small and start living like they mean it.

There is so much more that I can share in this moment about what Sue does, but I am so excited that we get to spend this time together talking about. Really a type of practice that is so dear to my heart, and that is all of the amazing work that you do with horses and helping people really tap into their inner life, their inner wisdom through the work that you and they get to do with the horses.

So thank you so much for being here with me today, Sue. Well, thank you for having me, Amanda. It's my pleasure to be here with you. So it's a really great time that we're having this conversation, primarily because I am just back from my very own horse retreat where I was a participant. So there's a lot of revelation and insights that I've been having, and it's just amazing that I get to hear more about your experience and maybe [00:02:00] even get to unpack some of those things that I've experienced as well.

Yeah, I'd love to hear more about that. That would be awesome. Yeah, don't worry, I'm full of stories. You'll, yay. Um, but for those who are listening and maybe have less experience with what exactly this type of work is, so I can call it Equus or Equine coaching or therapy, maybe you can just give us a taste of what that actually is.

Sue Willoughby: I'm a certified Equus coach, and what that means is that I partner with horses. I'm not a therapist, I'm not a licensed therapist. There's a, that's a different, uh, modality, similar, I mean, not that we don't get into some heavy things in a coaching session. Um, but basically there's no riding involved. It's just the client and the horse interacting, uh, doing whatever kind of interaction that they choose to do.[00:03:00] 

And I am the observer. Uh, I'm holding space for everybody. And I am watching how the person is interacting with the horse, what kind of communication they have with the horse, and what the horse is giving them, and also giving me as feedback. So they kind of, the horse sort of acts as a feedback loop when they're working with the person and it's, it's very interesting because horses are prey animals and most people don't realize that.

They think, oh, they're big, they're strong, they're powerful, which they are, all of that as well. But they're prey animals. So every cell in their body. Every moment of every day is focused on taking in information, whatever their senses are taking in, it gives them information, basically just data. Am I safe?

Do I need to do something about this? Who, [00:04:00] what is that thing? Is it going to harm me? All of these things, they process it and then they release it, which is a beautiful thing. And then that's, that's just a little taste of what the, what it looks like. 

Amanda Parker: Well, I really love that you, well, first of all, that you call out that it's not about horse riding.

Mm-hmm. Because I'm sure that. 95% of people who are listening or who have had experiences with horses, it's probably usually in a riding context. Mm-hmm. And it's because I know for me, I only learned about this even kind of work about a year and a half ago, and I'm an animal lover, like I've been a coach for a long time and I was like, wait, what is this?

You work with courses, so, yeah. Um, I think it's, it's important that you call that out, that it's not about the riding, but also that your role as the coach is as observer. 

Sue Willoughby: Mm-hmm. 

Amanda Parker: That's fascinating. 

Sue Willoughby: Yeah. And the thing is, there, there are therapeutic writing programs and I grew up. Doing that [00:05:00] and didn't even know at the time what that was.

I didn't realize it was therapeutic riding. I just was like, oh, these, you know, individuals are getting on the horses and it's fun and whatever. Um, but that's another story. Uh, so that's why there's no, there's no riding involved. It's really just allowing the horse to be a horse and all of the things and the way that they connect with us.

And when we are in their space, which you had said you have experienced, we become one of their herd members. So they need to know, are we a kind, what kind of herd member are we gonna be? And they also will look to us for leadership as well, because horses as herd animals will look to whoever is the calmest, most grounded.

Horse in the herd, usually a mare. I'm just saying, Nope. You know, it's not the wild stallion or the crazy gelding [00:06:00] running around showing off. That's not who they're gonna look to in times of crisis. Mm-hmm. Yeah, just saying. So, yeah, and there there is a very big distinction there and, and the distinction also between coaching and therapy are very different.

Um, as a coach, as you know, I, I look at coaching. My job is to work with people to help them find the answers that they already have and just uncover them. And horses are really good at that. 

Amanda Parker: I'm gonna ask a question you've probably answered a hundred times, but do you have, like, is there a special connection you have with horses?

Do you have a special ability to communicate with them or how. How are you able to do this? 

Sue Willoughby: You know, that's a good question. Um, there's no special, well, I, I did go through a certification. Well, you are special. I am special. So many ways. You have no idea. Um, but I, so I did go [00:07:00] through a coaching certification to specifically work with horses, but I grew up loving them.

Like I think every girl has a horsey face. Some of us just never grow out of it, or some of us come and go to it and from it. And I just always loved being around them. And I grew up with an alcoholic parent and so being at the barn was like my happy place. And I would, I grew up in upstate New York and I would, you know, I'm like, drive me to the barn in three feet of snow.

I don't care. I will be there all day. Uh, and in the summertime and everything and just, just. For the pure pleasure of being around them. And I didn't realize that it was really regulating my nervous system and it was, it gave me a sense of being grounded. And it was also a heart-centered connection with the horses, which I understand more now.

Uh, so in terms. Training. And I mean, [00:08:00] the thing is, you, you need to know and understand horse behavior, uh, what certain things, like I said, they're always processing information and they're amazing at it because like their ears will work independently of each other, so they could have an ear on you and then they have another ear on, you know, the pasture, what's going on out there, you know, what are my herd mates doing?

Oh wait, I heard somebody nicker out there. What do I need to be, you know, so they can do that. Also, their vision, because their eyes are on the, you know, sides of their head, they can see almost 360 degrees around them. So they're always watching and listening and feeling and, and they use all of their senses all of the time.

So it's, it's more about understanding what messages am I getting from them, how they are perceiving. The client that they're with, or even me. Right? And I, 'cause I know that when I go to the barn, or you know, in, in the past and I have had [00:09:00] days where it was not a good ride or it was not a good experience.

There was a reason for that. And it was usually because I was bringing a lot of crap with me. And the horse is like, you know, I don't, I don't need that. I don't, you know, you leave that stuff outside, um, or at least be honest about what you're bringing and be and be okay with it. Because when you try and hide behind a facade, or when you try and put something out there, the horse is like, I see right through that.

So they're not gonna, they don't put up with any bs, I guess is what I'm trying to say. 

Amanda Parker: Well, they are definitely the perfect mirror. And I remember the first experience that I had had with horses, um, in this coaching context. It was, yeah, a year and a half ago. It was in Santa Fe. Where I had the privilege of going again just a week ago.

Um, and we were told that the horses can really reflect so clearly back. Whether you're in congruence with [00:10:00] yourself or not is what you are saying true to who you are, to what you really believe or not, and the horse is gonna show you that with crystal clarity. Mm-hmm. 

Sue Willoughby: It's a little scary. Yeah, 

Amanda Parker: it's, it is funny 'cause it sounds intimidating and.

It is, and it can be really frustrating. Like my own experience sometimes is like, I go in, I'm an animal lover, like horses are gonna love me, everyone loves me, cats, dogs, you know? And they're like, I'm not coming near you. And I'm like, what's wrong with me? And all of these stories come to the surface right away of wanting to be liked, wanting to be loved, accepted, or inserting my will that you shall love me or whatever it is.

Like I had to face all of that very quickly. 

Sue Willoughby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I love that you said that because I've seen people, you know, walk into a round pen with a horse and the horses, you know, there's three [00:11:00] blades of grass on the other side of the fence, and the horse is all like, you know, trying to get at the grass and just, you know, the horse is just being a horse.

And the person will walk in and the horse is doing their thing and they're not, you know, because the horse didn't run up to them. They'll start saying things like. The horse doesn't like me. The horse is bored, the horse is whatever they're feeling. The horse, they transfer it to the horse, like the horse doesn't like me.

And you know, and that gives a really good, some really good opportunities to ask really open-ended co coaching questions. Like, why do you feel that? Why do you think that? Well, you know, and, and then it comes out that like, well, everybody ignores me, everybody. And I'm like, oh, okay, let's talk about that.

Amanda Parker: They're also really good with boundaries. How have you seen boundaries show up? Is there any example maybe? Oh, 

Sue Willoughby: tons. Yeah, tons. Uh, and I don't know if you experienced it or not, but, so you know, if somebody is having boundary issues or they don't [00:12:00] have good boundaries, the horses will just. Move right in on that.

So the horse may be standing really close to them, and at first it's like, oh, it's sweet and cuddly, and like, oh, I love that the horse is doing this. And then the horse gets a little pushier, right? And maybe the horse is like nudging them with their head or they're, you know, whatever, or they're, they're biting at their coat or doing something.

And so I can say, you know, initially it's like, well, how does that feel? Oh, it's great. I love it. You know, it's, and then you can see that they're getting more and more uncomfortable as the horse gets closer and closer and more pushy. Not in a mean way, but they're just like, Hey, hey, hey, hey. And, and then finally the person's like, no, I don't like this.

This makes me feel uncomfortable. Oh, well, let's talk about boundaries, shall we? 

Amanda Parker: There's an Equine therapist who is down the road from me here in London, and I have brought a couple of my clients to her over the last, well, year and a half, two years. And one of my clients, I will not say too much, but. Uh, he had an experience with [00:13:00] the horse where the horse just kept getting closer, closer, closer until it was standing on his foot and he did nothing.

It was like, oh my God. 

Sue Willoughby: Huh. 

Amanda Parker: Ow. 

Sue Willoughby: Wow. 

Amanda Parker: Yeah. Yeah. 

Sue Willoughby: That'll leave a mark. 

Amanda Parker: Yeah. Um, he was like, oh, it was, it was okay. I'm like, was it okay? Really? But in that setting, I was not the coach. There was someone else who was there with him in the arena. We just debriefed and I was like, how interesting. How is your foot making note of everything we've been working on for months?

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was something that was so poignant and like really powerful for me to understand and maybe, maybe you have, um, more insight into this, but there could be things, 'cause I consider myself very self, self-reflected. You know, I do my work and it's not that I know everything, like I always have more to learn, but I really put in the time to understand what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling, what's happening.

My God, I have never seen it so clearly as being in [00:14:00] the arena with a horse. And there could be, and I have goosebumps head to toe even saying it. 'cause there could be challenges that I know and I've been struggling with them and trying to reason them or work them through in my mind. And then it takes, it could be like 10 minutes in the arena with a horse to showcase whatever that exact behavior is.

And then all of a sudden it's like lived memory in my body. I get it. You know? And I always make this distinction between like head knowledge, knowing intellectually and then really felt experienced knowledge. And to me those experiences, the horses and with a great coach, someone like yourself can actually help you like.

Get it. Like really get it. 

Sue Willoughby: Yeah. I love that you brought the body into it because that is a really clear distinction. Uh, we are up in our heads all the time for the most part. Right. [00:15:00] And I think, you know, now you having had horse experience when I'm working with someone and I'm asking them what it is that they're experiencing, they may say a word like, I feel mad, or I feel sad, or I feel, or I'm not even, I feel I am mad, or I am whatever, or I am scared.

Okay, that's great. But what does that feel like? Like you said, it's that it's once, it's, you know, our bodies hold every experience that we've ever had and that's what the horses are seeing and feeling and becoming part of. So they're seeing what's really going on inside of us and where a peer in our, our heads, so we can.

Talk ourselves out of just about anything. And that's the difference between, you know, talk therapy and talk coaching. And then when you throw a 1200 pound animal into the mix that is, you know, two inches from your face, you're like, oh my God. [00:16:00] Right? What is going on here? And they will, like you said, they will reflect what's going on inside you.

And it's very experiential. And it does it, it imprints right, like you said, it just goes right into your body. So that's why I really encourage people to, or have them do some grounding exercises. And if they can't tell me what they're feeling physically, then I will say, okay, let's just back off for a minute and see where you are in your body.

What are you feeling? What you know. And then they really have to stop and think about what they're feeling because that's what horses do. It's, they're always in the moment. They're always, their awareness is always super heightened. So those are the types of skills that they can teach us is to be present.

What are we seeing? What are we smelling? You know, I love to do this, you know, five senses [00:17:00] meditation, um, before we start off, you know, like five, five things that you see, four things that you hear. And, and then it's like, oh wow, these things are going on all the time. And that's how horses live their lives is through taking in information, through everything, through their skin, through their feet, through their, you know, everywhere.

Uh, so it does put you back in your body and make it more physically experiential and it's, and it'll stick with you. And like you said, 10 minutes with a horse. It could be like six months of regular talk coaching or talk therapy. 

Amanda Parker: Uh, I definitely had, uh, just last week, I, it was, it's such a, a classic behavior of mine where I want things, I'm very like achievement oriented.

I wanna do things and I might, that might mean I need things from other people and all of this. And I went in to the arena and I wanted the horses to come to me and I wanted their attention. And so I was trying, you know, [00:18:00] all of my cajoling techniques of like, hello, can I pet you? And, you know, trying to be respectful of the space and all of that, but I wasn't getting what I wanted.

And then I was just like, okay, Amanda, you don't actually need anything from them. You don't want anything. You don't need anything like let go. You have no idea what they want. What like let go of the expectations. I actually sat down, I don't know if that was smart or not, but I did. So I just sat down in the middle and then just let it go.

I had to really make that conscious choice and then two of the horses came right up to me and I was like, holy shit. Like talk about an epiphany moment for me, which is, okay, so when I'm needy and I'm wanting and I'm trying to grab for something, it's very unattractive to whoever's on the other end of that.

And if I just, yeah, right. I mean, I could have told my clients that, right? But as a lived experience, it's not something I. [00:19:00] Fully registered. It's not something that I actually, like really aware, was aware that I was doing in that way the minute I could let it all go and they were like, oh, hey, you're cool.

And I was like, seriously? 

Sue Willoughby: Yeah. I love that you said that. And I had a similar experience when I was first starting with the coaching program and we had our very first onsite. And like I said, being a horse gal all my life, you know, I'm like, I can get the horse to do this, I can get it to do that. I, so, so, you know, I got a little cocky during my turn in the, in the round pen and I went in there and the horse was just all over the place.

And it was very similar to your experience where. You know, I wanted to prove myself. I wanted to show all of my skills and all of my talent in the horses, like, have fun with that. Uh, 'cause I don't really care how skilled of a horse person you are. You're all over the place and I'm gonna show you that.

And I was like, okay. And I just had to laugh. 'cause [00:20:00] my coach at the time, one of our mentors was laughing, you know, and he wasn't laughing at the time. But since then we've had a good laugh about it. He said, do you remember your first time? And I was like, yes, please don't even, you know, it was very humbling because it wasn't about my horse knowledge or my skill level or anything else.

It was like you said, dropping the agenda and just letting things unfold. You know, dropping those expectations. And I think that. As humans, we are very tied to expectations and having goals and all of that. And if the goal, if we don't reach the goal, whatever the goal is, then we have failed regardless of all of the things that we learned on our way to trying to achieve that goal.

Because you, we, we forget that even if we learned three things, even if we didn't [00:21:00] accomplish that goal that we had set for ourselves, you've got three new things, three new tools, three new aha moments that you ha whatever, and those are gonna stay with you. Take them onto the next thing. It's not about the goal.

Just like it, it's, I always tell people it's not about the horse. 'cause it's not, it's not about the horse. They're like, huh. I'm like, just hang in there. You'll see. 

Amanda Parker: This is a beautiful segue because I would love to hear a bit how, how did you get into this kind of work? Where did that journey begin? 

Sue Willoughby: Well, like I said, I grew up around horses and not around them.

I consciously made an effort to be around them because they felt good and safe, and I just loved their energy. And at the time, and when I was a kid, I didn't even understand what that meant. I just know how it felt to me. It made me happy, made me, I just loved the way they smelled. I would just s smell, smell them.

I would, you know, [00:22:00] people were, what do you, why are you smelling the horse? I'm like, my clothes, you know, I would like, oh, my clothes smell like the horse. You know, he is like, anyway. Um, and so I would take riding lessons and so forth, and then when I was sort of in my late. Teens, maybe early twenties. I, I saw an ad in like the local newspaper.

Remember those? The paper thing with the print on the open? Oh, look. And they were looking for, um. Horseback riding counselors for this summer camp. And so I wrote them a letter, remember those? The think paper with the stamp and put it in the mailbox. And so we communicated back and forth and there, you know, so anyway, long story short, I went to summer camp as a horse counselor.

I had no idea what I was doing. I mean, I knew horses and stuff, but it was therapeutic riding and I didn't realize that it was a camp for special needs individuals, um, of all ages. And I was in the horse program and it was fun. So that was part of their, you know, we would do horseback [00:23:00] riding, you know, they mostly leading them around and little horse skill kind of activities.

Um, and I didn't know what it was, but I just knew I loved it and that was great. So, you know, I'd go to summer camp every summer, you know, quit whatever job I had, which, you know, and I'd do that. And then horses just sort of a appeared. Uh, periodically throughout my life, um, you know, someone would say, Hey, I've got a horse that needs exercising or whatever, and I'd be like, yeah, okay, great.

Uh, and it just, whatever opportunities I had for horses was I would do that. Um, and then when I moved to Washington State, some friends of mine said, Hey, we know where there's a free horse. We all know there's no such thing as a free horse. Anyway, she was this cute little Arabian and she was just adorable.

And the woman didn't want her anymore. Well, I found out her history afterwards. She was a smart little cookie. Uh, she had been passed around since the time she was young, [00:24:00] and she was gorgeous. My friends are like, oh, you know, even if you don't do anything else with her, you can breed her. And I'm like, oh, great.

Two free horses. Awesome. Uh, but she had, you know, acquired some rather interesting. Techniques to get out of doing work, uh, because she hadn't had training. She was taken from her barn, young, didn't get the training, the kids would just pull her out and everything. And then Consequently, because she was beautiful and everything that she got passed around, um, to the point where she just, you know, she's like, I'm just taking care of myself and y'all can just go pound salt for all I care.

And when I got her, she was a gray, uh, and she had like gray skin and around her mouth and around her eyes. Um, it was, her gray skin was pink. It was de pigmented, which I thought was a little weird. And she was, she was clever, you know, she tried to unseat me a few times and never really managed to. And then I moved her to another [00:25:00] barn and eventually, like over the course of a year, I looked at some photos from her and, and I was comparing them to.

The Depigmentation had had gone, it was gone. And her, she had been so stressed out by this blast barn that she was in, in this situation that her skin actually got de pigmented. It was amazing. And so it took me a long time to, to connect with her. Um, and I, I kind of knew she wasn't my forever horse, but she came into a time in my life when I also needed some support, uh, and some other focus.

And we, you know, we just clicked. I helped her, she helped me, and it was just amazing. Um, and then I found a, I was able to volunteer at a, uh, therapeutic writing center. Got really involved with them. And so, like I said, they've always just been a thread. So one thing sort of has led to another. I knew that I didn't wanna [00:26:00] be like a therapeutic riding instructor.

I didn't, I wanted to be more with the horses. So I actually got certified in Equine massage. This is a long answer. Sorry, you asked. 

Amanda Parker: No, I want it all. I want it. And I'm gonna follow up on the thread of what happened to the horse. 'cause I need to know that too. Okay. Okay. Um, 

Sue Willoughby: so, so then I got certified in Equine massage and became an Equine massage therapist, which is a different way of, and also, uh, reiki, um, practitioner.

So with all of those tools and energy work and body work, it gave me a different perspective on how the horses are and how they exist and how to hold space for them while I was, you know, helping them heal as well. So that was really important distinction for me. Uh, and then, you know, back to the therapeutic writing thing.

I found out about [00:27:00] Equus coaching and um, got into the Equus coaching program and then went on to be, uh, certified as a master facilitator, which means I do group, uh, coaching as well with horses and events and retreats. So there you go. Never a straight path with me. Lots of no, and it diversions. 

Amanda Parker: The story was certainly not too long.

You have a captive audience, I promise. Um, but I do need to know what happened to the horse that you knew wouldn't be your forever horse? How did, how did that decision come about that it was time for her to be rehomed? 

Sue Willoughby: Yeah, so first of all, I'm five 10, so I'm tall and she was little on a good day, you know, in her ruby red slippers, maybe she was 14 one, which is a small horse.

So she was smaller, but she was sturdy, she was a little Polish Arab. And, um, I just. I knew she wasn't my forever horse. I, for whatever reason, but I do [00:28:00] know, I do know that she came, you know, there's a place and a time, and we were brought together for a reason and I had a riding instructor who helped me find a home for her, and she actually went to a.

She a writing stable with a woman who had been a trainer for years and years and years and had a, you know, writing program for young kids and so forth. So she was now teaching young, young girls to write. I was like, okay, have fun with that. She would keep 'em honest. I mean, you know, that was, she's still a feisty, she was a feisty girl.

Um, yeah. And then at one, and then I, I kept in touch with her and kind of fig, you know, she was also then went to, we have a, a local, uh, native American, uh, reservation here near where I live, and she was on, on the reservation as part of their therapy program. So I thought that was pretty beautiful too. So, you know, and I think now she is.

I think someone purchased her from the, [00:29:00] from the riding stable. And so she ha hopefully she has a lovely, young, young rider. But there was a, there was a gal at the, at the therapeutic riding center, a young gal in, uh, in, on the reservation who bonded with her completely. And they just had, she would take her on trail rides and everything, and it was just so beautiful.

So I'm happy that we had each other for that time in our lives. Uh, and that, you know, she went on then to not be misunderstood. And that was important to me. 

Amanda Parker: I, I also find it so fascinating with, I mean, first of all. Beautiful story and unfolding to get to this part where you help people. I know there's so much more richness, and I know you've had multiple career paths, I believe a couple, so we'll touch on that in a second.

But I, I also find it just [00:30:00] fascinating, um, horses, like they're so sensitive and they're such beautiful animals and we form such deep bonds with them, but it's one of the few animals that does have multiple homes or houses or all of this throughout its lifetime. I, I just, I know that horses are very expensive to maintain.

I know that's one element for many people, but it's really fascinating. I never really knew much about that before. 

Sue Willoughby: Yeah, I think, you know, and it depends, you know, the horse world is like anything, right? A lot of times horses are seen as just objects and you know, they're either competitive or they're whatever, you know, if they're off the track, thoroughbreds, they've had their racing experience and that's something different.

I mean, they all have different disciplines that they end up in. And, uh, I have a horse currently, um, his name is Moose. He's 16 hands [00:31:00] and he's like 1200 pounds. He is a big fellow. And, uh, so, but you know, you just never know what their history is and or why people, you know, girls grow up, they go to college, they stop competing, they do whatever.

Then the horses are left behind. And, and there's also horses that are just, you know, people don't realize a lot of times. The amount of care, the expense, um, and what happens when they can't afford those things. And so, you know, there's rescue organizations out there that work tirelessly to, and sometimes the horse just is done with his job, uh, or her job, and they just need a place to hang out.

And so they, you know, can find a sanctuary. And, um, there's a couple of rescue slash sanctuaries that I work with to, to do, you know, and then when I work with those horses as [00:32:00] coaching partners, it's great because then they have a purpose again, you know, and they, they like to feel wanted. They're very, um, they, they have being domesticated, they have accepted us.

For, you know, amazingly into their world, uh, and allow us to do things like ride them. And it is a privilege. And some people take that for granted, that privilege. It's, it's not, it's a privilege, it's not a right. And to have a better understanding of the horses and why they do things, um, and why they may react a certain way.

You know it if you are aware. You know, it's just interesting because sometimes people just don't. Don't do, don't pay attention to why the horse is having a really big no about something. They're saying no for a reason, whatever that is. Um, and you have to think, is it me? Is it, you know, is it something that I'm bringing to the table?

A lot of times it [00:33:00] might be like your agenda or your whatever, and they're like, Hmm, will they do my need to be loved? Your need to be loved. You need to be wanted. Yes. All of that. Yeah. Um, so they are really heart-centered beings and they're not just a commodity. And I think that, you know, sometimes people forget that.

Um, but yeah, they, it's not, I mean, we know that dogs, I just last week lost one of my dogs and it was a sudden thing. Oh, I'm so 

sorry. 

Yeah. It, and, and we know that when they come into our lives that they're only going to be here for. A finite period of time, whatever that is. We don't always know. Horses can live to be in their thirties, so it's different than a dog that may live 10 or 12 or 15 years.

Horses are around for a long [00:34:00] time. And a life. Think a lot of people don't realize that that commitment, you know, or like I said, like with Dream, her name was Dream Angel. That was her registered Arabian name. It's kinda like my Little Pony, right? Dream angel. The little sparkly in her, in her main, no, uh, but they don't, she was misunderstood and, you know, she, she was taking care of herself and that's what she was doing because that's all she knew.

So when she would go from owner to owner and people would pass, they're like, oh my God, what a beautiful little era. Blah, blah, blah. And they didn't give her the time and the respect that she did deserved to be herself. Like she would come up with these tricks, and I don't mean tricks, I mean like things that she would do these behaviors.

Like at one point I would, when I would go to take off the bridle, she would pull back, it would get caught like in her mouth. She'd pull back and rear up. And I'm like, okay. So we just can't have that, right? So then of course I [00:35:00] would get nervous that every time I go to take the bridal off her, she, and she would, she's like, okay, I don't wanna disappoint you, so I'm gonna do this thing.

So one day I just said, let's go out in the round pen and let's just practice. Let's just do this. I said, I got all day. She was like, okay, great. And we just worked on it. It was like, you know, I mean, and you just have to be okay with, you know, you don't. It was just little, it's just little things. So I could teach us a, a lot.

I guess 

Amanda Parker: that's, that's, that's also pretty miraculous, um, for people who just come in, someone like me who just enters for this tiny snippet and we are just getting to see this mirror. But, and sometimes you understand like, I assume maybe you can shed light on this. Um, I'm making the assumption that the coach knows a bit about each of the horses and maybe some of their backstory, so they're [00:36:00] able to reflect back.

Oh, how interesting. Like, 'cause I think there's something about the relationship that you pick as well with the horse. But anyway, long story short, what I'm trying to say is that we only get this snippet. The horse's life, but there's a whole other, you know, they live a whole life when I'm not there for an hour and a half or however long it's 

Sue Willoughby: Right.

And they do. They do live a whole life. But to your point, yes, they do live a whole life and they have lived a whole life, and you are seeing them for a little snippet. And a lot of people say, well, do the horses need special training for this? And I said, no, they don't need special training to be a horse, because that's all they're doing.

And however they're showing up for you for that hour and a half is because they're showing up with whatever it is that you need. You can take the same horse and have them [00:37:00] work with two different people, and they're going to exhibit different responses and different behaviors based on what they're getting energetically.

From you or from someone else. So, yeah, it is interesting. And like I said there, there's no special training. They're just being themselves. 

Amanda Parker: So what does that look like when someone comes to work with you? So they say like, hello, I would like to do coaching with horses. What do you, what do you do? What does a session look like?

What are you looking for? How does that work? 

Sue Willoughby: Yeah, well, it all, it all depends. Um, you know, people will come with any, you know, maybe they've been in therapy like you said, like you took your client to, you know, that you've been working with and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, haha, okay, surprise. Um, that's interesting.

Horse was standing on your foot for half an hour and you [00:38:00] didn't even say anything. How interesting. 

Amanda Parker: Boundaries did you say? Ha. 

Sue Willoughby: So somebody may have be, and they may just be stuck and they may say, you know. Hey, I've, I've heard, you know, I would love to have this experience. Some people just want the experience of being around a horse.

Uh, and other people may be, you know, it's usually because somebody is stuck or they're, they're, they wanna make a change in their life or they, you know, and, and let's face it, I mean, when women get to a certain age or when people get to a certain age, especially women, they may have had one identity that they have.

You know, whether it's a corporate executive or a stay-at-home mom or whatever, the kids are out of the house. Now, you're an empty nester. There's so many different things. But you may have been identifying with one of those things for many years, and now you don't know [00:39:00] who you are. Or you don't know where you want to go, but you know you want to go somewhere else.

And it's scary to be a beginner again. And I think that that is the biggest thing. You know, we have a lot of fear around being judged, um, looking stupid. That's a, you know, come, goes along with being judged or failing that, you know, whatever we see as failure. And we talked about that earlier where it's like, oh, well we have this goal.

I wanna, you know, take in, I wanna be in a new career doing this. Okay. Do you even know what that entails or what, you know, what is your, so horses can help with all of that stuff. Okay. So that was the, that was the setup. Now we'll answer your question. So, so let's say somebody you know comes and, um, they may not, maybe they say, I just.

Don't know how to experience joy anymore. I don't know what that looks like for me. I don't know what that feels like for me. I just know [00:40:00] that I don't, you know, and maybe it's not full-blown depression, or maybe it is depression or maybe whatever it is, but I, I need to be able to feel joy or experience joy, and I don't even know how to do that anymore because we lose that.

Over time. You know, I, when you talked about my many jobs and so forth, I'm always curious and I think losing your curiosity, uh, losing that kind of zest for life, um, sucks the joy out of us. And, and there's a lot in this world right now that is sucking the joy out of everybody, and I'm just gonna leave it at that.

Mm-hmm. I don't think I need to go into any details, but having said that, 

Amanda Parker: if you're listening in 2025, you know what she's talking about. Right. 

Sue Willoughby: And to that point, we allow all of those negative forces to come in because we can't block them. It's like this, you know, when you [00:41:00] drive past a ugly car wreck, you're like, oh, I gotta look and see what's going on in there.

I can't look away. Right. You can't look and you can't look away. So it's all of that stuff. Anyway, back to the joy. So. Let's say somebody comes and they wanna be able to feel joy again. Um, okay, great. That's awesome. Well, you think we're going to do this in one session? We try. Uh, it may end up being more than one session, so I'll ask them about an intention and I'll ask 'em kinda why they feel this way and maybe there's some things that have happened.

Um, so with some knowledge, maybe we've had a couple of o offline or online sessions or something prior to them coming. I'll ask 'em to set an intention for that, for that session. And then I'll give them some insight into how they can interact with the horse if they choose to do that and, and what that looks like and how to be safe.

Because they want 'em to be safe. They're in there with a big animal and the animal is at liberty, meaning that it's just can roam around. There's [00:42:00] no, unless they want to lead it around, they feel safe or whatever. Um. But the horse is just free to do whatever the horse wants to, to be a horse. And then I will let them go in and interact however they see fit.

And like I said, it may be I will just observe for the first few minutes and see what's happening and what kind of interaction they're having with the horse. And then I'll ask them what they're, what they're experiencing or what they're feeling. And a lot of times the intention that they set initially is not what we end up working on because very quickly, as you said yourself, uh, it becomes evident what's really going on, whatever it is.

Whether it's, and, and it's interesting because, you know, sometimes I'll have people just walk into the arena and just stand there and just [00:43:00] being in. The space with the horse in the presence of the horse, with their energy, they may start sobbing and they may, you know, just everything sort of melts away because maybe this is the first time that they feel safe and that they feel not judged.

Horses are not going to judge you, right? They're not going to laugh at you. They don't care what you're wearing. They don't care how much it costs. They don't care what kind of car you pulled up in. None of that is anything that means anything to them. They're just like, how are you showing up? Are you showing up in a way that I feel safe and that I want to be close to you?

And it's interesting because if someone goes in and they're very guarded, um, for whatever reason, like for example, let's go back to the joy. I wanna have more joy. Okay? I'm watching them interact with the horse and they're very stiff and they're very, you know, and, and I said. Are you, how's that [00:44:00] joy working out for you?

Tell me about how you're feeling. Are you feeling joyful? No, I'm not. Okay. How, what does joy feel like to you? I don't know. Alright, let's explore and, and, and the way that they're interacting with a horse, maybe very stiff and eventually, you know, it may happen in one session or it may be it be in small increments over a number of sessions.

You know, they, they're trying one thing, whatever it is that they're wanting the horse to do, they're trying and they're getting the same result. Okay. What else can you try? What else could you attempt to do? So it, it allows people to understand, oh, if I'm doing the same thing and getting the same result.

Maybe I should try something different. Maybe I should try a different approach, right? Maybe I should drop some of my expectations. And when that wall goes away or starts to crumble, the horse is like, [00:45:00] okay, that's what I'm talking about. And the horse will come over, like you said, when you sat down in the middle of the arena because you're like, horsey, like me, please, like me, like me, like me, like me.

And the horse is like, what is your problem? Please back off, ladies. Little needy there. I don't think I want you. You know? Um, or like you said, some people will just run up and like throw their arms around a horse and the horse is like, uh, nah. Uncomfortable. So then when you, when you did let down your guard and you're like, okay, whatever.

Or is like, okay, I'll come over now, because now you're being congruent. Now your insides are matching your outsides and. Sometimes by the, you know, with the joy thing, for example, you know, pretty soon the person is like, well, what, what would you, you know, what would, what would feel fun to you? I don't know.

Maybe I'd like to skip. Okay, skip. And then they're skipping around. The horse is like trotting around behind 'em and they're, I'm like, now how do you feel and how do you feel in your body? What does it feel like now? [00:46:00] You know, is joy still this dark thing that you can't touch? No, I feel lighter. I feel, you know, so it's, it's interesting.

So that's kind of a typical session. 

Amanda Parker: It's, it's so interesting 'cause listening to you, you're using the word joy in this example, but I could imagine like anyone who does this with leadership, like, oh, I wanna be a good leader. And it's like, well, what is a good leader? Well, I don't know. Yeah. And you could imagine just instantly what those behaviors might be.

Well, how do you lead your team forward in this situation or that situation? I used to work in leadership development, so I'm also like, oh yeah. That would, that would pinpoint, uh, some of those challenges immediately. Yeah, 

Sue Willoughby: yeah, absolutely. Horses are great at teaching leadership because, like I said, they're herd animals.

So what is a leader? When we think about what, what kind of leaders in our work groups, in our life, in our whatever, that we are drawn to? Are we drawn to ones that are like scattered all over the [00:47:00] place and you know, or bossy. I used to have a boss that would literally send an email and then walk out to your desk and say, I just sent you an email.

And I'm like, oh my God. Go back in your office little man, thank you. And leave me alone. Please, please. I begging you. Right. But just micromanaging. Right. Are you a micromanager? Well, horses are funny because you know, they're really good with leadership and they will put you in your place in a heartbeat.

So it's fun to see a team, like an Intact work team come to a half day session or something, and E each individual team member may have their own session. Right. While everybody else is watching. Now it can be also very, very vulnerable. Right. 'cause things are gonna come up. Yeah. 

Amanda Parker: Yeah. 

Sue Willoughby: However, it also gives all those team members a better insight into how to interact with.

That person, why does that person always defensive? [00:48:00] What, you know, what is the deal? You know, why is this person always bossy? Because you see how they're interacting with the horse. And then it gives better insight into how they can communicate with each other. And then also when they do like a group activity, which is really interesting, like you've got one horse and then surrounded people in different positions around the horse and the horses at Liberty, trying to get the horse to do a specific task.

That's, that's exciting as the coach. Yeah. That's really fun to be like, okay, what role do you have? Again, I forget, uh, but horses will look to you even if you, even if it's your own horse. So you play 

Amanda Parker: the role of the child in this. Yeah.

Sue Willoughby: But you know, horses will look to you for leadership and if you are not a strong leader, they will take the, they will take the lead. And that may not be exactly the kind of relationship you want with your horse. 

Amanda Parker: Maybe you can share if there's [00:49:00] some like, I don't know, remarkable transformation or some like really beautiful healing that you've witnessed that you can share with us.

Sue Willoughby: Yeah. Um, so many examples. Um, I recently had a young person come through, um, and I don't always work with youth, um, but it was, you know, it was something that was brought to me and we were just spending time with the horse and, you know, they were just brushing the horse and, and interacting with the horse.

And things were pretty surface, um, about what was going on. And, and I was being very cautious about it. You know, this without going into a lot of detail. And finally towards the end of the session, I said. How else can I support you? What do you need support with? And [00:50:00] all of a sudden everything sort of came out.

Um, you know, they were, um, transitioning. They were, their father wasn't paying attention to them and could, didn't have a good relationship with their father because, you know, all of these things. And they had not had anyone that they could talk to about it, where they felt comfortable. So I, you know, it was just the one session that I had, but being able to hold space and have this young person speak their truth about their life and where they were and how they were feeling was huge.

And it was really, you know, it was. It was a lot. It was a lot, but it was just by being with a horse that they were able to do that. So [00:51:00] hopefully them feeling comfortable enough to speak those things out loud and that maybe then they were able to take that to the people that really mattered. That, you know, 

Amanda Parker: it's, it's a testament to the safety that you create and that the horse creates, that there's this beautiful space of non-judgment that probably they finally felt safe enough to be able to say the thing that's been with them.

And I know, yeah, the, the pure power of being able to speak your truth even once when you felt so afraid or like no one cares or no one will listen. Like that's life changing. That is absolutely life changing. 

Sue Willoughby: Yeah, exactly. And I, and you know, and that was a young person. Um, and there's a lot of women in their midlife that feel that same way.

They have not been able to be themselves to the [00:52:00] point where they don't even know who they are anymore. So, you know, if I can help a younger person not have to get all the way to midlife before they figure things out, um, great. And if I can help someone later in life that is experiencing something that they can't talk about or that they can't even touch or reach, then that's what I wanna do.

Amanda Parker: That's so beautiful. I would love to hear more of these stories. Um, but I know that we are. We're coming close to the end. We're not quite there. Um, but I would love, just also for my own curiosity, but also for everyone who's listening, if people were interested to work with you, is that in person in Washington?

I assume it's in person, but go 

Sue Willoughby: on. So I can do coaching online and, uh, not with horses obviously, but because I have been around horses enough, I [00:53:00] have a little horse sense that I bring to any of my online, you know, so I can kind of call both on stuff anyway. Um, but yes, in Washington, um, I can also. I have people that have, I do retreats in other locations.

Um, if someone has a retreat experience that they're building, I can be invited in to do an Equus coaching piece of it. Um, I can work in other locations, uh, you name it. I mean, I can, I can travel to other locations, but if, you know anybody wants to work one-on-one with me, it could be either here or at a retreat location.

Uh, so yeah, and it's just basically just get in touch with me and, you know, we can talk about what your needs are. 

Amanda Parker: Mm, yeah. That's beautiful. And you also shared just a bit in your own journey that you've done different trainings and things like that. Are there, [00:54:00] are there any resources 'cause. I'm willing to bet that people who are listening who have maybe never gotten to encounter something like this will be really curious to learn a bit more about how maybe they can deepen that relationship with horses.

Are there any resources like books or training schools, things like that, that you would recommend someone check out to learn more? 

Sue Willoughby: Yeah, actually, um, the Center for Equus Coaching is where I did my training and a lot of the, um, a lot of our facilitators and our coaches also have educational programs. Um, so you know, or you can, you can go, you don't have to get a certification in, in Equus coaching just to go through that experience.

Um, and a lot of times if I do a weekend retreat, people will come away with that knowledge. Um, but if you do, or if you're interested in. Being in more of a coaching role. Let's say you're [00:55:00] already a coach and you wanna add this to your repertoire, um, then I would check out Center for Equus coaching, or you can also contact me and I'm happy to, to talk to you, um, about the program and what it entails.

Uh, if it's something that you think you wanna do, um, you know, you can go to, A lot of times we'll have a demo day type of an event where you can go and say, and have that experience, see what it looks like, uh, take part in it. Uh, so those are, those are some things that you can do. Um, and you can just, you can Google, um, Equine assisted coaching or something like that to get more resources as well.

Yeah, there's a number of different programs out there, not just the one that I went through. 

Amanda Parker: And you also have a podcast. I do. Right? I don't know how much you talk about your horse coaching on the podcast, your Equusus coaching, but please tell us what that is because Yeah, just listening to your wisdom, your voice.

I'm sure people are gonna wanna tune into more of that as 

Sue Willoughby: well. So the name of my podcast is [00:56:00] Midlife Strategies for Badass Women. Love It. So I have the amazing guests on, I do solo episodes as well. Um, I don't necessarily talk about the quis coaching. I do that a lot more on my guest spots when I guest on other people's shows.

Um, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. And so, yeah, but it's fun. I have really good guests on and, you know, these are women and a few men, uh, who have, you know, done amazing things in their lives. They're not even amazing things, but they've just had incredible experiences. I had a woman on who had, has summited all seven.

Peaks, the seven major peaks in the world, and some of them more than once, I mean, and done a lot of extreme, uh, you know, races and all of that stuff. And she's just an incredible human being. So the reason that I am doing that podcast is to let women know that it's okay to try new things, be [00:57:00] curious, be aware, you know, it's okay.

You know, don't, don't worry about being judged. Just get out there and do some, do some stuff. So 

Amanda Parker: if you were to give advice to a woman who is listening, now, men, you can also listen to this by the way, but if you're giving advice to a woman who maybe is in that second part of their life and they're feeling really at a crossroads, like maybe they don't really know who they are anymore, what advice would you give them?

Be the horse. 

Sue Willoughby: I'm like, fantastic. Okay. That's 

interesting. 

Um, but what I would s what I would s And by, by the, by that I mean, you're like, by the way, that's true. Yeah. And 

be the horse. And by that I mean, start being curious about everything. Start looking at the world through beginner's eyes. Go back to how curious you were when you were a little girl [00:58:00] and everything was just full of wonder.

I mean, we take everything for granted. The, you know, the, the, the road that we take to the grocery store or to work or to, you know, whatever it is, dropping the kids off or someplace. Either take a different route or when you're, when you're on the same route that you take all the time, go slower. Stop, get out of the car, whatever.

Look around, find one thing. Note one thing that you have not seen before or that you've driven past a hundred times. Because when we start to be curious, it builds our awareness. And it's also when you look at things through beginner eyes, it really does shift your perspective. And when you go to try something new, you are a beginner again.

And I think that that's really hard for people. Think about the horses. You're not being judged. The only person that's [00:59:00] judging you really is yourself. Be curious, you know, put on your beginner glasses and, and look at the world differently. Just, you know, shift your perspective. 

Amanda Parker: So as we're coming to a close now, are there any last words, anything else that you.

Would love to share that you didn't have the chance yet. 

Sue Willoughby: No, I, I think just don't be afraid to try new things. I mean, I've tried a lot of things in my life and we didn't get into all of them, but everything from standup comedy to roller derby referee to private pilot, I mean, a lot of things. Don't be afraid to try something new just because you're afraid you're gonna look stupid.

Like I said, you know, it's, I'm a lifelong learner. I love new experiences and, um, yeah, I think it's really important that we continue to live and not, you know, not give 

Amanda Parker: up. This has been a beautiful conversation. Very timely. I'm so grateful that I could have you on, and everyone who's listening, you're gonna have links to [01:00:00] all of the ways to get in touch with Sue in the show notes.

So please do check those out and get in touch. This is a resource you are not gonna wanna miss. Thank you so much for joining us. To everyone who's listening, I will see you next time. Thanks for tuning into today's episode of Don't Step On The Bluebells. If you enjoyed this conversation, please give the podcast a five star rating wherever you listen.

And don't forget to hit, subscribe and follow along so you never miss a new episode.