What if You Stop Waiting to Like Yourself with Matt Chavlovich (#066)

If you're honest — do you actually like yourself, or are you waiting until after the promotion, the launch, the relationship? In this episode, Amanda turns the microphone on her own coach, Matt Chavlovich — the man who has seen her at her most stuck and most doubtful — and asks him everything. What unfolds is a conversation about the one thing hiding underneath every goal you've ever chased: can you soulfully say "I like me" — before the thing, not after?

Matt's path here was anything but a straight line: a professional football career that taught him to listen to his intuition under the pressure of 15,000-seat stadiums, a decade in the corporate world where he realized he cared more about who his people were becoming than the targets they were hitting, and the courageous leaps — leaving a secure career, leaving a marriage that had run its course — that came from finally trusting his inner voice. He also shares something he's rarely spoken about: the spiritual faith he found not through religion or family, but through survival — sitting alone in a church at 13, offering up a pressure that was too big for him to hold.

And because it's Matt, the conversation is full of the reframes he's famous for: why perfection is "a juvenile conversation," why you don't have a commitment problem (you're just committed to the wrong things), why decisions become easy the moment you know what you're trying to build, and how a 30-day experiment can introduce you to a version of yourself you haven't met yet. Amanda brings her own stories to the table too — launching free oracle readings in a spirit of play, closing a 14-year-old credit card that was quietly leaking her energy, and claiming her new moniker, The Untamed Oracle.

If you've been waiting until "after the thing" to feel like you're enough — this episode is the door. Whether you walk through it, and how fast, is entirely up to you.

How to Get in Touch: https://www.mattchavlovich.com/

Ready to go deeper on your journey of personal growth?

1. Get this episode's full Show Notes with key takeaways, quotes, and resources
2. Start with the Inner Authority Gameplan — a £9 guided experience to cut through the noise and hear your own inner voice
3. Subscribe to Amanda's Saturday Email for insights and essays on inner authority, intuition, and the art of trusting yourself

Transcript

Matt Chavlovich 0:00

Coaching to me is holding a higher version of the person in front of you than they hold of themselves without judgment for the gap between where they are and where they say they want to go. That second part to me is the distinction between coaching and everything else.

Amanda Parker 0:20

Welcome to Don't Step on the Bluebells, the podcast where personal healing and transformation takes center stage. I'm your host, Amanda Parker, and I'm a fellow seeker on the journey of personal growth. Join me as I delve into the stories of gifted healers, guides, and everyday people who have experienced remarkable transformations. Listen in as they share their practical wisdom to enrich your everyday life. And don't forget to hit subscribe and never miss a new episode. Welcome to today's episode of Don't Step on the Bluebells. Today we have an incredible guest here with us. It's my very own coach, Matt Chavlovich. And today we are talking all things coaching and wherever else the conversation goes and leads us. So Matt is so much more than a coach, but I've asked him to join here today because he's someone who has been such a huge inspiration to me, especially over the last couple of years that we were working together. And he touches on so much more than the person and the business, but he really dives deep into so many of the spiritual edges that most of us don't really allow ourselves to go in. So I could not be happier to have you here for this conversation. There's literally no one else I would have wanted to do this episode with.

Matt Chavlovich 1:42

So excited. Fun to fun to switch roles a little bit, but fun to be your equal. I'm gonna make sure that I play the right role as the equal, but I do need to start out right now while it's fresh and start with an invitation. Um because before we jumped on camera, you just led an incredible meditation that was incredibly grounding, incredibly powerful, beautiful. I really envisioned myself as a rooted tree with just my heart open, expanded, being shown to the world. And I would invite you to consider at times to press record before that and share it with your listeners because I the power in it was uh was incredible. So that really moved me. I'm really excited to be here and see where the conversation goes.

Amanda Parker 2:32

Thank you so much for saying that. Uh yeah, for everyone listening, I will do a meditation before we begin. It really helps me and the person who's sitting here with me just to come into that same energetic space. So it's as much for me as it is for you, but I have never hit record before that. And it's it is often a powerful experience, even before we begin the conversation.

Matt Chavlovich 2:58

Yeah, and I know that a lot of conversations, a lot of people ask, you know, what do you do to get centered? What do you do to get grounded? I'm and uh you just did an incredible job grounding me. So thank you for that.

Amanda Parker 3:08

Well, ironically, just before we did that meditation, you also asked me, How do you stay centered? And I said, What do you mean? Like energetically, but no, we were talking about the camera lens. So we answered it in both ways now.

Matt Chavlovich 3:23

It was beautiful, but either way, I'm very excited to be here and uh it's gonna be a lot of fun.

Amanda Parker 3:28

So we are here because you know, each episode of the podcast, we're really focusing on a different modality of healing. And I think that especially in today's world, where so many people are using the word coach as like a blanket term for just doing work or doing anything, that there's a bit of this sacredness that has been lost, and people don't fully understand what coaching actually is or what's possible when you're working with someone who really holds a space for you to grow and be your best self. So I'd love to hear from you what in whatever words feel right, what does coaching mean for you?

Matt Chavlovich 4:14

Gorgeous question, one that I've been asked many times. My definition is pretty simple. Um, coaching to me is holding a higher version of the person in front of you than they hold of themselves without judgment for the gap between where they are and where they say they want to go. That second part to me is the distinction between coaching and everything else, from consulting to mentoring. Coaching is to hold a higher vision, I call it a door. I'll hold a door open for you. How quickly you walk through it, how aggressively driven you walk through it, if you walk through it at all, I will not judge. I will accept you on your path. And that is the biggest difference. Holding a space, holding a container, holding a place where there's an opportunity for you to grow and transform, but there's not a requirement, there's not an expectation, there's not a judgment of that. That to me is is a difference, as I said, consulting, uh, mentoring. You're hired to get from A to B. And there's a lot of techniques that um I don't endorse in coaching that they use for that. And those are all those are all serve purposes to get to A to B if that's the goal, but that's never my goal.

Amanda Parker 5:34

And I notice just over the time that I've known you, there's also a bit of resistance to call yourself a coach. So you won't often introduce yourself in that way.

Matt Chavlovich 5:45

Yes. And and and this is something that I that I also teach. I uh that's not just a coaching thing, but that's really any title, right? Um, language is, I believe in the power of language. Language is the first thing that we use to create with. And I talk about that a lot in my coaching. And so I don't endorse anybody calling themselves a title because what it brings alongside it is the interpretation and the perception of what that person you're speaking to defines it as. And so I'm a coach, just leaving it out there, just that, or I'm a doctor, or I'm a therapist, or I'm a teacher. You're leaving the definition to what they their experience has been, what they define that as. And so I always like to just describe what I do with what actually occurs, what actually the people leave with, what actually happens. And so if I was a doctor, I'd say I heal people, you know, or I help people live healthier lives or get rid of challenges, you know. If I was a teacher, I I help people grow. What is the thing that you do, not what are you called?

Amanda Parker 6:50

Yeah, that's interesting. Cause I have definitely, I mean, especially since moving to England, you know, over the last four and a half, five years, I've been in many rooms with people who have like very different job titles and don't really understand what I do. And I'm always calibrating to see what's happening in that room. But I notice at the moment that I'll walk up to someone and say, hello, I'm a coach, or just introduce myself as a coach, they kind of glaze over and like conversations over. And there's just something really powerful about what you're sharing that it's it's not about giving yourself the label. Sure, if you if you need to have the label for some reason, you can put that there. But the truth is more about what's the transformation you're facilitating? How are you helping people? What it is that you're actually doing in that space together.

Matt Chavlovich 7:37

Well, define it for them. So I'm not gonna say something, say a word and leave it out there in space for us to interpret in our own way, and then also be left in judgment. What do you think of that? And that, you know, the the famous question, what do you do? We often just say something and we leave it out there. And what we're really wondering after we say something is what do you think of that? And I don't I don't believe in giving that power to to anybody else. And so I might call myself a coach, I might call myself a giraffe, whatever, but I'm gonna define what that is. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you what that word means to me and not be subjected to what your experience has been of that. That really I think gets to the root of what are you asking? It's like, well, um, are you asking me how I make money? Are you asking me what I believe I'm built for and what my purpose is? Like, let's have a real conversation.

Amanda Parker 8:35

That is a great segue into if you were to be explaining to your five-year-old self, and this might even be easy for you because you've got kids, I don't know. If you were to explain to your five-year-old self what it is that you're doing in the world, how would you describe that?

Matt Chavlovich 8:52

Beautiful frame because that that really changes it. Um, I help people like themselves so they can go after anything they want.

Amanda Parker 9:00

I really feel the power in that. You know, in our conversations, you've talked a lot about helping people to discover what it is that they want. But actually, what you've just said, like I really feel the power in that because so many people don't really like who they are. It's not just what they want to be doing or how they want their life to look. It's how do you feel when you look at yourself in the mirror?

Matt Chavlovich 9:28

And that goosemates that's the goal. Like, if we're gonna go to the deepest part of what am I trying to do with people, on the deepest level, I'm trying to have them be able to say soulfully in all areas, I like me. Because I have this belief that we are these infinitely capable human beings. Anything is possible. We are we are I mean, I used to walk around and and I still do, I stand for possibility. Anything is attainable. But when I get to the root of it, again, I talked about it with the difference of coaching and mentoring and consulting, is why do you want the thing? And the game for me is can you like yourself where you are today? Still being curious about having something different, having something more, having but not needing it, not requiring it in order to have the experience of life you want or in order to think about yourself in a certain way. Can you like the body you have while you're losing the weight? Can you like the job you're doing while you're working to get the raise? Can you like your spouse while you're reconnecting? And so I like me is really said another way, I'm enough. I'm enough right where I am. That doesn't mean I'm done growing. I think I think that is the reason we're here is to grow and expand, but also come back to that we're enough. And so when I say, hey, I like me, I'm not just using that frivolously, I'm using it very intentionally. It's really come back to a place of I'm enough where I am, and I'm enough as I grow, and I'm not gonna wait to feel that or create from that or be that or step into that until after the thing, after the promotion, the marriage, the baby, the house, the car, the car, the whatever. And so my five-year-old self, I I bring people to a place of them liking themselves more so they know anything's possible. My 10-year-old self, you know, it'd probably uh I help people realize they're enough.

Amanda Parker 11:48

Thinking about uh the direction that your career has taken, because I look to you and I look at what you've created, and I'm like, oh my God, this is incredible. You know, for those listening, Matt also hosts these remarkable experiences in Santa Fe that I've had the opportunity to participate in. And it's truly life-changing. So between the coaching and these experiences, like, I really want to know how did you get here? What was it that made you say one day, like, I'm gonna be a coach or I'm gonna change people's lives?

Matt Chavlovich 12:22

Surrender. You know, surrender and quietness and then momentum. And I know that takes some explaining, but I was fortunate enough to to play a sport at a very high level. And um that was driven by a passion. That was driven by just to perform at that high level, I had to just surrender to give everything I had, and really learned how to listen to my body, really learned how to listen um to just my intuition. And um it was very evident when I was doing that and when I wasn't. I think that's true for everybody. Um, but some of us just get numb to not listening. I've always had a confidence in myself to try things and know that I could uh rebuild if they went south. And and they have gone south before, and I and that's been okay. And because again, I've always had the belief that we're here to learn, we're here to grow. I don't think until I really started coaching and really getting quiet and doing deep work on myself did I realize that we're meant to come back to the place of being enough, and and growth is the journey there. But I ignored my signals for a long time, and then I started to take small steps to listen to the signal, and I started to get rewarded for it, started to get momentum, and then my trust in myself and in that voice and then intuition uh continued to grow, you know, and and it led to bigger uh monumental things like leaving uh a very well paying and well-situated uh career to go coach full-time, um leaving a marriage that had run its course that is arguably the best thing I've ever done for myself and my children, and and then every step of the process of building a coaching business of letting go of what you're seeing other people do and really just saying, Well, what lights me up, what energizes me? And I go back to my athletic background, you don't need one, but I was fortunate enough to have the experience. I think musicians and athletes um train this muscle pretty well. But when you're energized, you realize that you're capable of much more than when you're not, and so I always knew that, and so I just started to ask the simple question what energizes me? And um I grew my practice from there. At first it was one-on-one clients, then it was groups, then it was retreats. Now it's creating um products that live outside of me, like books and and podcasts and whatnot. Um and so that's really where it came from is what energizes me. I have a big belief that whenever I see anything that's interesting or someone doing something different, I I ask myself, do I want to be them? Would I trade lives with them? Would I trade to be them? And I'd never gotten the answer, yes. Like there's certain things that I'm I respect and be interesting, but I would never trade being me for them. And at that point, when I get that answer no, then I then I literally just followed up with, well, then why would I do it their way? Why would I trust them more than me? And I've I've grown a muscle, as I call it, of having the courage to follow my voice and my heart. And it's um it's served me.

Amanda Parker 15:58

I think that's what most of us struggle with is it's not just you know knowing what you want, but having that courage really to take those steps and you know take action towards doing what you want. Because, you know, for me, so I started offering Oracle readings at the end of last year, and you celebrated big time. I know that. But it wasn't that I knew I could or couldn't do it, should or shouldn't do it. It was just there's this so many stories that I could tell about no one's gonna sign up, or people don't know what it is, or maybe I'm not good enough, or I know, you know, these incredible psychics and mediums and tarot readers. Like, how could I put myself out there and compete in that space? And so it just took a moment of turning it into play, like making it playful. I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna offer some free Oracle readings, let's find out what happened. So there was no pressure to just be able to do the thing. And then, you know, I had like a shitload of people just signed up right away, like they had been waiting for something to connect with. And it was now that doesn't make me afraid. Now I'm like, oh yeah, give Oracle readings. That's fine. People say, What's an Oracle? I'm like, never heard of the Oracle of Delphi. Like, go do some research and come back to me if you're interested. And and I just make it very light because I don't need to explain it. But that moment of being able to put it out there, that is like there's like an energetic increase that gets you to that point of being able to make the choice for it to suddenly feel easy. And I think that's where I mean, I know even myself, I get stuck there still through different things, different, um, you know, my next level, next level, whatever that might be, that there's that moment of, and I know so many people just never make it over that hill. They're just sitting at the bottom of the hill looking up, going, Nope, could never do that.

Matt Chavlovich 18:02

Yeah, and that's and that right there is a perfect example of the journey, right? It brought me so much joy when you started doing that because I knew that that was true for you. I knew that you wanted to offer that to the world. I knew that that energized you. And at some point, you realize that you were gonna be okay no matter how it went or not. And a lot of times our block is I'm not gonna be okay, or I'm not gonna be enough, or I'm not gonna like me if this doesn't go a certain way. And so we try to control and really not step out into the arena until we know exactly how it's gonna go, and it needs to go a certain way because if it doesn't go that way, I won't like me, I'll regret, I'll shame, I'll judge, all the things. But the freedom really comes from I'm okay, no matter how it goes. It's okay to fail, it's okay to be messy, it's uh I like me, I'm enough regardless of how this goes, and I'm doing this because this is what's present for me. And that's where everything changes. And so your example is with the oracle readings, but it's a I mean, it's dressed up the same exact challenge, dressed up for everybody and all the things, whether it's moving towards, moving away, right? Whether it's trying to do something or letting go of something we've done. Letting go of the job, letting go of the relationship, letting go of the friend, letting go of the belief. Right? A big part, big thing I say a lot is what are you addicted to? We're all addicted to something. And most of it is an identity, a belief in who we are. And in order to get on the other side of that, we have to know that there's a version of us that exists without that thing, right? Without that job, without that relationship, without that belief, without that circle.

Amanda Parker 19:46

It's it's valuable that you bring in that it's not always just what you're working towards, but also the things that you have to let go of. And I just had such a it seems so simple, but I'm gonna share this example because it just happened today. Um, so I had been previously trying to complete the process to be a German citizen. And then I moved abroad. So I wasn't able to complete the process, and it was like genuinely a big disappointment. I'm not gonna go into too much detail of that because it still feels a bit like, oh, there's a sting there. But I still had a German credit card opened and I didn't want to close it because I just want to, you know, it's like a little bit of a tie to, I mean, my husband's German, so I've got enough ties, but still something about that card felt really connected. I called the company today, it was American Express, and I said, Hey, listen, I'm gonna close my card now. And the man on the other end of the line goes, but you've had this card for 14 years. And I sat there, I was like, I know, but I'm still gonna close the card. And I did it like I feel really relieved. It's funny because it seems like such a small, insignificant thing, but it wasn't because it was like a breadcrumb of energy that I was just leaking into something that actually isn't helping me move forward, but just making the choice. I I wanted to close that card for a year, let me be clear. But making the choice to just close it, to close that chapter, to let it be easy, even when there's like that grasping of like, but look at the relationship and the history that's there to be able to say, like, yes, and even in spite of all of that, I'm still gonna make this choice. So, and that does free something in me. That frees me in whatever way. I mean, we'll see what happens in the coming weeks, but it frees something that something else can come in because that energy is no longer being held up in that yeah, bubble. So, just to reiterate, the it's not always what we're moving towards. Sometimes it really is having the courage to leave the things that like we've told a story to ourselves about, or we believe for some reason. And it's important, or it's an a part of our identity, and it's not, it's really not.

Matt Chavlovich 22:06

Uh 100%. I'll say something that um could be controversial, who knows? I don't believe in forever, and we create this, and that's why decisions are so so difficult for many. We create this concept that the decision I'm making now has to be forever. And we give all this credit. Oh, but it's I've always done this, I've always had this card, I've always I've known this person forever. It's always been this way. But I use the example a lot in coaching. I ask when you were a teenager, is there anything that you did religiously that you don't do anymore? Whether it was eat something or wear your hair a certain way, wear certain clothes, watch a show, that now you don't do anymore because overnight, in one moment, you gave yourself to no longer be that person. Your explanation right now for no longer eating Pop Tarts for breakfast is I'm no longer that person. And so, how are we supposed to evolve and grow and acknowledge who we are today if we're bringing the whole past with us? And so permission to be a different person today, right now, different beliefs, different values, different is where freedom comes from. I don't believe in forever, whether we're talking about relationships or anything, even in relationships, I talk about this a lot. Create every day why you're why you're in the relationship, why you love the person, why you want to connect with the person. And uh this is a lifestyle. To your point with it being easy, right? I mean, I often reference a gym. It's easy to understand. Lift those weights, your muscles will grow. But can you consistently do the work? And if you lift your arms for a year, guess what's gonna grow? Your arms. But then you're gonna look at your legs and you're gonna be like, Oh, but my legs are skinny, right? That just shows where our work is. And so I love that you did that with your credit card. You had a great result, and then I think you know the invitation I would give you. I say, where else in your life are there things that you're just trolling along because they've always been there, right? And that just shows you where your work is. There's no shame, there's no judgment. It's just that's just how a free person exists in their lifestyle.

Amanda Parker 24:23

Well, it's what's coming to mind as you say that is there's, you know, we're really always going through, or I mean, maybe it's not can continuous, but there's moments in our life where we're really changing our identity, like changing how we see ourselves, changing who we are. It could be every moment of every day, as you're saying, you always have an invitation to be someone different. But for many of us, you know, when I left New York and moved to Paraguay or moved to Berlin or got married, or all these different pivotal moments in my life changed who I was and how I saw myself. For you, I'm curious because you were a professional athlete and then you went into more of a corporate career before becoming an entrepreneur. So, what were those shifts for you? I mean, like to go from being an athlete to being in business, how did that feel? What did you have to go through to make that shift?

Matt Chavlovich 25:23

Like all people that um their identity is attached to what they do. And I think athletes face this a lot, but but people that have been in jobs, they face a lot too. My identity was attached to me as an athlete. And when that ended, I didn't know who I was. I think I was 24 at the time. And instead of getting quiet, now what I would guide people on is get quiet, what's true to you, get on that path. But instead of that, I I really went into well, what is safe? Um, and I entered the corporate world and I worked in the sports licensing world, and so it, you know, I told a story that, oh, it's two degrees separated, and I was in that space for about a decade, about 10 to 12 years. Two things made me leave it. Once is I would I would look at people that were 10 years my senior, and I would look at them and basically say, I don't I don't want what you have right now, I don't want to be that. So why am I on this path? And then the second thing that really came up is I I managed a lot of people. I was fortunate enough to manage some beautiful people in that time period, and they consistently came to me for coaching, and I found myself caring more about who they were than uh achieving the the goals in business. And the more I cared about who they were, the better they performed, and we did hit the goals, but I never really cared about the goals, cared about who they were. I tell a funny story that I was managing a sales team, and in our kickoff, um I had a one-on-one with one of my top earners, and I said, What matters to you most? And she said to get healthy. We went through what that looks like, and she wanted to lose some weight, she wanted to get to the gym a certain way, and I leveraged it and I basically said, I will not meet with you again in one-on-one unless you've committed to what you just told me you wanted. I think it was gym three times a week and eating a certain way. And because I I wanted her to understand it was okay to put her first, and that's something I don't think is very common. Um, but obviously we've all heard it. The more you put us first, the better we'll do. Once I decided that I was gonna get divorced, I think that put into motion a much truer version of myself and life and myself, and that that really empowered me to create from there.

Amanda Parker 27:39

And that journey of becoming a coach, I mean, I have my own journey and a lot of a lot of I want to say war stories, but there really are. I'm I'm curious how did that feel for you when you decided to go all in? You know, like I sometimes obviously you were my coach, so I have like a I didn't get to know you as a peer or as a friend or in a different phase of your life. So for me, I'm like, well, he's always a coach, like he's just always been a coach. This is just he was born this way. But how did it feel when you started that business? Was it hard? Was it fun? Did you have the same insecurities the rest of us have, Matt?

Matt Chavlovich 28:22

We all we all go through the journey. Um, but there's a lot of truth to um the fact that I can say I was always a coach. I was doing that in all the ways. And what we make things mean, our perception is really what gives us our energy and really allows us to step into the higher version of ourselves, right? And so I have a very good muscle of looking at two versions of a story and knowing which one serves what I'm trying to build better. And so, simply put, okay, I'm gonna leave corporate. I did start a coaching business for about two years on the side while I was uh still in corporate, but just simply put, does it does a story that I've been a coach for two years, a story that I've always been a coach serve me better? And then I will go get the data and how it can be true. And I think that's where we cut our legs out from under us is you have great data of how you've changed, how you've become different people and created different things very powerfully. And a lot of times we just don't remember that data. We we refuse to bring that data to the forefront. And I just did the opposite, and I would encourage anybody starting a career in coaching to do the same. Where have you held a higher version of other people without judgment throughout your life, even if it was just yourself, and really collect that data so that you can step into a belief and version about of yourself that you haven't yet? But I don't know anybody saying, Hey, I'm a brand new coach, where that whether that really serves them. Figure out a way to say that that you've been doing this.

Amanda Parker 30:08

Yeah, there is that moment, there's almost like a switch that you can flip. And I think for you know, speaking for myself, it can take me a while until I recognize that. So there's usually something I want to lean into, something that I want to become or do. And I continually see the gap between who I am, where I am, and what it is that I want. And that gap, depending on how much work I've done on myself or how insecure I'm feeling, or how secure I'm feeling, whatever, there's many factors that can come into play. That is what usually will determine how long it takes me to get where I want to go. And what I'm hearing from you, but what I'm also acknowledging within myself, is there is like at some point things just feel clear. Oh no, I really want to be this thing now. So I'm just gonna be that thing. And it's not always that straightforward because life, go ahead, Matt.

Matt Chavlovich 31:12

Who determines if you are something? I think that's what was jumping out. We do, and at what point, right? At what at one point we decide we're not something, and then uh all of a sudden we are something, and so when we take that back that power to be able to define what we are ourselves and let go of anyone else agreeing with anybody even justifying it, we get back our power. And and I know most of what I've said you've heard before through our journey, but success to me, and the whole point of all this is to have the experience of life we desire, to feel the way we want to feel. Regardless what we have, regardless what people call us, if life doesn't feel the way we want it to feel, I call it failure. But our ability to call ourselves things and believe things about ourselves really dictates that experience. So why would I give that to anybody else? And so anybody that you know, I've coached people around almost anything, whether it's motherhood, sexual preference, relationships, business, any of it. But I had a client once that would not call herself a mother until she delivered naturally. Now she had raised two children with her partner that weren't hers. She was a teacher, but in her mind she wasn't a mother, and it was because of that, because of that lack in belief in herself, I think her nervous system was shutting down and it became difficult to become pregnant. And she eventually did when she kind of accepted that she was enough with or without, she was buying into some concept that somewhere somebody said, No, you're not a mother unless you have a baby naturally. And I and I would argue the whole time. I said, Well, what if why why are you agreeing to that definition? And so who gets to decide what we are or we're not?

Amanda Parker 33:22

If I think of an example for myself, when I was launching the Women Healers Collective, this was like a year and a half ago, and I wanted to create a space for healers to come together. And then I invited in all of these incredible humans, healers, many of whom had like decades more experience than I did. And I was intimidated. And the truth is, they believed I could hold the space or they wouldn't have said yes, right? So they saw something, they're like, Yes, I want to be there. This is great, you're creating this thing, and I froze because I didn't think that I was an experienced enough healer to hold space for these people who I greatly admired. And I kept hoping that by stepping bravely into that space that I would feel more grounded, but I didn't. I felt pretty insecure throughout. So it wasn't actually in that case that anyone else was telling me I wasn't this thing. It was something in my mind that was like, well, they have all this experience. I don't. So therefore, XYZ. So it's not always just that someone on the outside is giving that definition, but it could be that a a different, a younger version or a different version of ourself, like of myself, was telling me what this actually looked like, what this is totally.

Matt Chavlovich 34:43

But again, you can be okay with that, right? Like I use sports analogies a lot because you know I'm versed in it. Um, and uh my sport was football or soccer. And I would always say there's there's 11 people on the pitch. Does it matter if you're one of those 11? Does it matter your age, how many times you've played in front of big crowds, uh, how many times for a national team you've played? Does any of that matter? No, you're one of the 11, you're on the pitch, just do your job. And yeah, you might fold to the pressure a little bit. You might make more mistakes than other people. And the way through would be, oh, what an opportunity. Who will I be after this experience? Wow, how lucky am I? You know, whole gratitude. How lucky am I to have this experience? But on the pitch, you're on the team. You're on the team. So just do your job the best you can, whether you're a goalkeeper, the forward, the wide winger, whatever. Do your job the best you can. And can you accept yourself as you go through the process? That's the game. But it's a lifestyle and it's it's a constant workout. You don't get to a mount and say, I am like an athlete, you could have done everything in athletics, but you still got to play the game. And so when we're proficient in one area, business, relationship, whatever, stuff still comes up over here, and that's just where the work is. I still get triggered, I still get frustrated, I still had those moments, and I just say, all right, well, that's where the work is because it's a muscle. If you don't work the muscle, it does not grow.

Amanda Parker 36:25

So I'm sitting here smiling to myself as well, because I always found it funny. I mean, when we were working together, especially in the beginning, I mean, I think I vaguely knew that you were an athlete. To be honest, I wasn't so concerned what your background had been. I just knew in the space that we were in together that like you were holding the space, you helped me access parts of myself that I wasn't able to otherwise. And you didn't do it much because I think you probably realized pretty quickly, I think you probably used a sports analogy like once or twice with me. And I was like, I and I played sports. I mean, I played soccer and field hockey, you know, in like high school, a bit in college, but even still, I still find that very funny because it's just not um my typical language, but I so appreciated that about you as well. First, that you can like, you know, jump the worlds and it doesn't intimidate you. Um, but also that you have that perspective because I remember having conversations with you about discipline. And there was something that you had said about it, might have been like, you know, about packing your bag the night before and things like that. Like, what does that discipline actually look like to make yourself prepared and ready for game day? And I had never, ever thought about it before. It was just like it, it hadn't even crossed my mind what you would need to do, especially as an athlete. Like you're you're preparing for months to get on that stage because I'm someone who always like I just I show up and I do the thing and I can either do it or I can't. But like the preparation before was not um necessarily a piece of the puzzle.

Matt Chavlovich 38:03

And that's okay. And that's okay. Um yes, I do remember that. I I've worked with a lot of people on starting our morning, right? And I always say the next day starts the night before, right? One mistake we make is that we think that when the alarm goes off at that point, we give ourselves a decision. Do I stay in bed or do I go to the gym, right? And I say, no, no, no. Pack your bag the night before. Alarm goes off. Get your feet on the ground. What's the first thing you can do? And I say, don't make a decision until you're in the car on your way to the gym. Then make a decision. You don't need an athlete, athlete's background um to do this, but there's just so many simple mistakes that make life harder that people don't realize. And, you know, the other thing, a lot of people say to me, I need, you know, they look at me as um good at commitment, to your point, good at discipline. And I and I always tell them, you don't have a commitment issue right now. You are committed. You're just committed to the wrong stuff, right? You're committed to staying up late, you're committed to the Oreos, you're committed to eating sugar, you're committed to um an identity that's a victim or coming from lack. Like you don't have a commitment issue, it's just committed to the wrong thing. So let's get clear on what you want, and let's get clear on why you don't have it. And and now we can we can look at that. And it just becomes logic and science, right? My favorite question to we start with, and you know this is what do you want and why don't you have it yet? And that'll tell everything. One, it'll tell me how clear you are with what you want. Most are pretty vague. And why don't you have it yet? It'll also tell me how accountable you are to what you create in your life. And I have no judgment with any of it, but once we start looking at both, we can realize why we don't have it. But the journey becomes can you accept yourself without it? Because my goal is not to help you get the thing you say you want, my goal is to help you know your enough with or without it, and then just get curious what's possible from that place of enough. That's my goal, is to bring you back to you. How would I describe it to my 20-year-old self is I bring you back to you.

Amanda Parker 40:21

Why do you think that most people don't know what they want? Like, what's your philosophy on why that's so hard for people to understand?

Matt Chavlovich 40:29

Because we're not asked that question until much later in life when we are pre-programmed. So if you think about how we come into this world, we come into this world as a blank slate, and then we are subjected to so many people's traumas, perceptions, right and wrongs, viewpoints. We don't have our own viewpoints. We are literally being programmed from the moment we come out. And then at some point, this weird quagmire thing starts to bubble, which is who am I? What do I actually think? What do I want? What lights me up? And we're faced, where we're coming at it from being we're from being programmed already. So now we're challenging a program that we've always known, and it becomes a journey of unloading what no longer serves, uploading what does, which sometimes comes with loss, always comes with change. And it becomes a it becomes a challenging process at times. My belief though is that is the journey of why we're here, is to come back to us. If you think about a circle, it starts in a point. We start to go really far from that point, right? Start to go around, and at some point we can't be even further. You know, if if we start at 12, we're at six, we can't be further. And our journey is to come back around to who we are and to that that blank slate, that that that living from the moment in the moment, connected to the moment, but connected to us. And I believe now that muscle is more important than ever, especially with all the the social with the programming that comes from technology and and everything.

Amanda Parker 42:25

I find that in the world we're living in today, where we're constantly online, and especially with AI, like AI can do all the thinking for you. You can just outsource it. It almost feels like literally like a battle at the moment for people to stay connected to themselves and their truth. That that has always been a problem, but with the absolute bombardment of social media and AI and influencers, and this might just be my world because I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn and everyone just wants to teach you shit. Um, so this is like, yeah, it becomes increasingly difficult to hear yourself above the noise. So, what would you tell someone who's really kind of drowning in that noise? How do they come back to hear themselves again?

Matt Chavlovich 43:23

Know what you're trying to build. I find it the most important question you can ask. I'm in the process of starting a podcast called that. What are you trying to build? If you come back to that, it'll be your centering point. And decisions become easy. The example I use is opening your fridge. You open a fridge, and well, if your fridge is not like mine and it's just full of variety, mine is not, but full of variety. What should I eat? Is the question, right? What should I grab? Pause in that moment. What are you trying to build? I can't tell you to have the fruit, to have The salad, to have the rice crispy treat, to have the you know, cocoa pop, like I don't, whatever. I can't tell you. Have the milk, have the water, have the juice. I can't tell you that. You tell what are you trying to build? And if somebody was trying to build that, what would they have? Because there's times when I'm I'm trying to be my healthiest, but I will have a chocolate bar. I'm trying to be my healthiest and you know, enjoy the process, or I need a sugar bump or whatever. Like it, and so life isn't hard or complicated. Life is really simple if you know what you're trying to build. And then it's just a matter of, okay, well, build it. But we we allow ourselves to be ambiguous and gray on what we're trying to build and perfect. One one of the most meaningful things anybody ever said to me was perfection is a juvenile conversation. And when I was it happened when I was a teenager, and you calling me juvenile is one of the worst things you could have right. I always tried to be more mature than I was, or more professional than I was, or whatever. And it's true. If you're trying to be perfect, you're trying to get it all right, you're not trying to step left, you're never gonna do anything worthwhile. And it's a it's a false, weak goal that will always keep you playing small, and you'll never do anything that's um never been done before because you can't.

Amanda Parker 45:28

It it it makes me think of like when you create an alter ego, and sometimes they talk about that even in marketing, you know, like create an alter ego that you can step into, that you can talk about what you're doing, etc., or you have to go on stage and you're really afraid to give a presentation and you can create this, you know, alter version of yourself that gives you the courage to step up. And that's what I'm hearing a little bit as well when you say, When what are you trying to build? And would someone who's building that do X or would they do Y? And there's um I had a recent podcast interview with Cult Mother who does tarot, right? So, and I was asking her specifically about that, like, okay, what is cult mother? Like, where did this come from? Right, but it's amazing, right? And it's it just catches your attention. You like what kind of cult, what kind of mother is in the cult and does tarot and and she was really saying, like, she just went all in on it. Like, she just a hundred percent went in, even when she didn't fully believe in herself as a tarot reader and she was just learning and everyone thought she would fail and all these different things. And I've recently created the moniker for myself of what I want to lean into, but I'm still like a little, I can feel I'm a little hesitant, I'm sort of in, I'm sort of out, and like shit, I need to be in on this. But it's the untamed oracle, and it's all about just stepping into that wildness, that not caring, like who is the untamed oracle? And what would the untamed oracle do in this situation? What would the untamed oracle eat out of that fridge or you know, put out into the world or create? So there is something really powerful that anyone who's listening can also create for themselves because it's you know sometimes hard to imagine the future version of yourself. It's possible, but it might be a bit more difficult or farther away. Like create that, create that person, give them a name, give them a name, and but you also can't plan it.

Matt Chavlovich 47:42

You can't plan what the untamed oracle is gonna choose from that fridge in that moment. That is a present moment thing. Because if from and and that's what we try to do. Oh, if I call myself this or if I'm gonna try to build this, then it's gonna require that. You don't know that.

Amanda Parker 47:59

You got to get into the moment and build as you go, and that becomes But I have to pack my bag the night before. How do I do that?

Matt Chavlovich 48:08

You could, you definitely could, and that becomes, and these are all these are all little hiccups, these are all little walls or hurdles that we all face, right? So believing that I control you, taking responsibility for you, I have power over you, is one of the biggest false beliefs and biggest things that keeps us stuck. Right? When I think you can attest, I my language is always I have an invitation. What is an invitation? So you actually say no. I don't control you. I'll give you an invitation. Take it, leave it, all good. So I'm gonna show up, I'm gonna bring me, I'm gonna give you some ideas, I'm gonna give you some perspectives. Take it what you want, leave what you know. It's right for me, it doesn't have to be right for you, right? Two truths can exist at the same time. And so this false belief that whatever I say, people are gonna follow, now I have to take responsibility for you, is actually no, I'm weakening you. I'm playing into and and contributing to your lack of power. No, no. I will show you a door, you have to walk through it. And if you don't, it's totally fine. Maybe it's not the right door for you. I respect that, and we both can exist at the same time. And I think that's part of the pressure that we put on ourselves is I'm responsible for you. And I personally will never enter into an arena and accept that responsibility because I will call you back to your power.

unknown 49:50

No.

Matt Chavlovich 49:53

And as you get called back to your power and your sovereignty, now you're able to create your world. Now you're accountable for your world.

Amanda Parker 50:06

So I know that in your practice that you incorporate many different philosophies that have influenced you over the years. I know there's definitely a spiritual side for anyone who's had an oracle reading with me. The deck that I use was introduced to me by Matt, favorite deck in the world. I'd love to hear a bit about those influences that more woo side of what you do and what how that comes into your work.

Matt Chavlovich 50:37

It's all woo. It's not always what I meet with, but it's all woo.

Amanda Parker 50:41

You heard it here first, everyone.

Matt Chavlovich 50:43

True, true story. And one of my biggest challenges is when I do meet people with uh deep spiritual gifts like yourself, it's actually getting them to trust themselves to bring it, you know, um, and really put it out there because it is it's all my world. Um, I'll tell you about my journey, how I got there, and I'll tell you how uh just my perspective and how I leverage it. So again, as an athlete, um, I was fortunate enough to play at a very high level and um was also programmed that uh results mattered, winning mattered, like it it mattered, and um and it got to a point um where it was just too much for me to hold. I mean, I was 13, 14, 15, uh fortunate enough to play in front of you know eight, ten, fifteen thousand people consistently, and and it was a lot of pressure and and being programmed with things like you know, get a winner, don't come home, right? Like saying really stupid and ignorant things to to a child. Um, but I believed him for a little while. And and there was a point, I can feel it in my body right now. Um, there was a point where I just had to surrender and I created a deep faith, and I would just, I would just offer it up. At the time it was to God, and uh I would just say, you know, please let it go the way it's meant to go, and let me be okay on the other side. Like literally, I I couldn't I couldn't resolve that my identity was held in this result. And um, and it created deep faith and and I would pray a lot, and um uh and that really served me and that deep faith, not only in the sports and performance world, but also like I lost uh I lost a parent in my early 20s. I just lost another one last year, and I've lost people, and um, it really helped me create um relationships with them and and really go bigger than myself. And and what I realized when I was trying to do some things um that I couldn't even fathom how I was gonna do. Like most of them are in the sports world. I was I I did a couple Iron Men, which are which is pretty intense. And when I couldn't understand how I was gonna do it, I would offer it up and I realized that my limitations are just because of my mind, right? And so just because I couldn't see something or understand something, why would I make that my limit? And if I offered it up to someone or something bigger than me, maybe there's a bigger plan than what I can envision. Maybe I'm part of something that's bigger than me. All of a sudden my my world started to expand. What was possible started to expand. And I stopped trying to control everything and more just tried to step in with courage, with faith, with trust. And that was a lot easier than you know, trying to figure out how I was gonna do 140.2 miles in a day, right? Like I how would I how would I even do that? I don't know. But I'm just gonna trust that whatever's meant to happen is gonna happen. It's all unfolding perfectly, right? Or how you know um my life's gonna be after my divorce, or how I'm gonna make a good living after I leave corporate, right? Like I'm just gonna trust and step into this, and I'm gonna give myself permission to pivot and it not have to go a certain way. And that faith has really served me. And now, you know, I'm 47, I'd say probably for the last seven years, um, it really becomes my compass. My gifts come out when I'm able to slow down, when I'm able to have it come through me, not when I'm when it's coming from Matt, like when it's coming through Matt. And my job is just to open a channel, and and and there's a lot of ways to do that, right? It's to eat healthy, to get enough sleep, to spend time in nature, you know, to to work the muscle, to be able to hear the signals, and then to say them and let them come through you without attachment, without it needing to get you to do anything or grab anything or believe anything. This is just what's coming through. And if it wasn't perfect, and if I would do it differently when I listen to it back, letting go of that because how it came through is what was supposed to come through. The role of higher spiritual energy, all that, it's everything to me. It just it just flows through and it really is everything.

Amanda Parker 55:34

Was that something that you were taught? Like, did you have a religious upbringing or was anyone in your family particularly spiritual?

Matt Chavlovich 55:42

No, it was never introduced to me. It was out of survival. It really was. It was there were programs coming out me that didn't feel good, that um people were putting a lot of pressure on me for their own experiences. And um, and I I found church, I would just go, I would just go and sit in church. I wouldn't go to um masses often. I would go and just be quiet there and just offer it up and just say, look, this is too big for me. And that doesn't feel good. So like I think not having anybody very spiritual really served me because that was probably one of the first steps in um taking back my power uh that that occurred. And again, that was I was young, I was probably 12, 13, 14. Um, and then I think that started me down my own path and started to give me some confidence to say no to things that nobody else would, or say yes to things that nobody else would, because I felt like I had a higher energy having my back.

Amanda Parker 56:55

It's remarkable that you found that path just on your own so young, and that you've continued to nurture that, you know, until your 47th year. I mean, so many people are introduced to, let's say, religion. And I mean, really, I have my whole own story about religion, right? So so many people are introduced, and that kind of taints them. I know for me, I always believed in spirituality or like energy. I would always say I believe in energy, but I didn't quite know what it meant. But I was like anti-religion of any kind, like absolutely, and so it was really difficult for me to even break into those spiritual practices myself when the door was open. Like I had what I would call an awakening in 2018, and that was I had no clue what was happening, like literally the gravity, like the ground beneath my feet, it didn't make sense. It was gone. And so for me, that journey was navigating, like for the part of me that loves to understand to try to figure out what's happening, what does this mean? What does it look like? Okay, and my default is learning. So I sign up for courses. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna learn now, I'm gonna figure out what this is, I'm gonna hack it. And all the courses couldn't help me really understand. I started to get snippets, and honestly, this podcast has been a huge answer to that, which was how much information is there that we don't have access to that's bottled up in experts who are like many of them, I guess, are afraid to be on camera, so they're not even speaking about it. How are we actually getting to be able to touch that? So it's even more notable that that's something that you could find on your own and just hold. Because if no one else around you was reinforcing that, you know, a different kind of person might have just been like, oh, okay, this is crazy, or I'm doing something wrong, or people are gonna judge me like I need to, you know, back away.

Matt Chavlovich 59:00

It was relief, it was survival, you know, and um it's been a journey, and I think now um I hear it and I and I have more confidence to follow it and I trust it, and I don't need to know why or where, and it's just served. And and again, I always think that my belief is that wherever it's pointing me, that's actually bigger and more powerful and more right for me than whatever I'll conjure up because I'm gonna be tainted by my past, my perception, my you know, and um, and so my favorite question to ask a deck always is what is meant to be known right now? What wants to come through, what wants to be present? Um, and it's interesting we're having this conversation because I'm looking at a deck right here. I pulled a card before this, and the card that came up is faith in the process, which is which is interesting. Um but no, I believe that spirit, whatever people demoniz, is uh is much bigger and much stronger and much um wiser than we we ever are. And uh a curiosity uh to follow it is what I invite anybody into. It doesn't have to be permanent, you know. I I run these 30-day experiments where I just invite anybody to do something for 30 days, just uh unquestionable. It can be spiritual, it can be get up at five, it can be eat vegan, just anything, just to know what day 31 feels like, and then you can decide, like keep going, change it, whatever, but run experiments, and so I think it's a beautiful experiment to run just daily, get quiet, hear that voice, and follow it. Unco no questions asked for 30 days and just see what day 31 feels like. Um and then you can decide to continue or not. But in coaching, in real deep work, I I think that without um without a voice coming through you, um, it it can be challenging.

Amanda Parker 1:01:13

So for someone who's listening who maybe wants to deepen their own connection to hear that inner voice more, but they're not really sure either where to begin or how to go deeper, what advice would you give to them?

Matt Chavlovich 1:01:26

Work the muscle to get quiet. So one of the biggest reasons that we operate unconsciously is because we operate too fast. We're we're just on autopilot. And so work the muscle of pausing, checking in what am I trying to build? Right? Um, but in this moment, pause and ask a different question. What's coming through me? What am I feeling? Uh find a question that that lands with you, that connects you to you. What am I hearing? But slow down enough to hear it. And then just take small steps and follow it. Say the thing. And wherever it's challenging to do that, well, that's your work. And if you want a real playful one, pause, hear the voice, and whatever you would usually do, do the opposite. Like just no questions ask. No questions ask. It's one of the biggest ways to kind of grow the muscle to realize that you can play differently. Just you know, oh, I'd usually analyze this. Oh, I'd usually write this down, oh, I'd usually call my friend and tell them, do the opposite, whatever it is, just do it. And build some range in how you react to that inner voice. All throughout giving yourselves permission to get it wrong, to not understand it, to to come from ego instead of guidance. Like it's all part of it. But can you through it all get closer to liking yourself, get closer to knowing you're enough throughout the journey? That's the game. That's the game, and that's where coaching comes in because these podcasts and everything are great. Hey, we tell people to do this thing, but to be able to do it all by yourself is really hard. Versus just having somebody walking alongside with you and just, you know, almost like a dog, like just starts to go left. Nope, come back. Nope, come back. And you often use the reference of yoga. You know, in yoga, it always starts with focus on your breath, right? And we all do, we focus on our breath, and then we start thinking about our grocery list or the relationship or the person next to us, and then we come back to our breath. And then we start thinking about our quads or our calves, and we come back to our breath. That's what this is. Stay connected to you, stay connected to you, up, go on left, come back to you. That's the lifestyle. And a coach does make it easier.

Amanda Parker 1:03:59

Absolutely. I I have just one more question I want to ask, but I want to make sure I also tell people how they can get in touch with you. So if someone is listening and they're like, I need a mat in my life, or I need this mat in my life, how can they get in touch?

Matt Chavlovich 1:04:16

My website's the best place, mattchablovich.com. That is the best best place. I um I am on all the social um channels. I am not very active at all. Um, it's not something that in this phase right now brings me much energy. Um and so my website, mattchablovich.com, is the best place to connect.

Amanda Parker 1:04:36

And that's where we're also going to find your podcast when it launches.

Matt Chavlovich 1:04:39

Podcast, all the all the things that is the best place, yes.

Amanda Parker 1:04:44

So I would love to ask you if you were looking at your younger self, the version of you who was just getting started in this business. I mean, you can go to any age you want, but I'm thinking of really when you were starting out this business, starting out as a coach. What advice or what do you wish that he knew? Like, what do you wish you could go back in time and tell him?

Matt Chavlovich 1:05:10

And I was gonna say this earlier, because and I think it really helped me grow my business. Um one, I would say do it your way. That would that would be the advice. And I I've done both, you know, I've followed followed people, I've done it my way, I've kind of teetered back and forth, and now I'm clear, but it was a longer road to get there. But and I'll answer your question again deeper. But one thing that I would advise any new coach or people that are getting into it, and something that I did and and and allowed me some confidence don't make false promises. So there's things that I do with my clients and places I can bring my clients now that I couldn't when I started out. But I wasn't pretending to be able to. You know, I I I I don't remember. all the names of the programs, but I remember a group of women I worked with and it was it was just about getting them to do an uncomfortable thing. Like I was I'll help you to do things that are currently uncomfortable. That was it. You know and and and as I did my own work and as I worked with people out I would the work would get deeper and this and that. But but don't make false promises. Clearly own what you can do for people. Be willing to talk to them about it and you'll find your people and and that really that really served me. And now I am completely confident that I can bring you back to yourself and connect with you know your highest version and help you create a life and business around that. But I wasn't saying that when I started I was saying okay do some uncomfortable things okay to break some habits I'll get you to leave the thing that doesn't serve move towards the thing that does I mean but it was simpler. So start simple. Start to start with the 10 pound weights before you start to lift the 50 and that's okay. Do it your way and don't try to be perfect. And I would tell anybody trying anything that this has been an amazing conversation.

Amanda Parker 1:07:17

I'm so thrilled that you have joined me and that yeah there's some questions in there I've always been curious about so the listeners you were right there with me as I was asking I will just say that it's really an incredible experience to be coached by you. Like just the experience of being coached but also just learning from how you hold that space so it's really a unique gift that you both have and have developed and I'm so appreciative of that.

Matt Chavlovich 1:07:48

Thank you. Thank you I received that and I that that lands and that means the world I do want to acknowledge you for having the courage to have me on you know I I believe in this kind of a relationship when you have coach and client or whatever you want to call them you know there's an area that I was better at than you and that's what you asked me to coach you on. But it doesn't mean that's all areas. And so in this space we're equals in this space we're just two powerful people telling our stories and I love that you were able to curate that and offer that and bring that up and um I don't believe in gurus I don't believe in you know admiration you know to to where it's detrimental. You hired me to help get you somewhere I was separate from this and and and now we're equals and I really love that. So I'm happy and grateful for the opportunity to to be here. Well coming soon we'll be drumming together right oh absolutely one it's it's right on my wall.

Amanda Parker 1:09:00

It is one of the most meaningful things anybody's gotten me yes well thank you so much for being here and to everyone who has been here for this journey with us thank you so much for tuning in and I will see you on the next episode. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of Don't Step on the Bluebells if you enjoyed this conversation please give the podcast a five star rating wherever you listen. And don't forget to hit subscribe and follow along so you never miss a new episode.