Shaping the Digital Classroom: Gamifying Education in Web3 with Academic Labs

Imagine unlocking the full potential of education with the precision of AI and the security of blockchain technology. That's the promise Academic Labs brings to the table, and we've got the brains behind the operation—Terry Tan, Kenaq Kik, and Ryan Chi—to guide us through this labyrinth of innovation. From combating credential fraud to firing up learner engagement with NFTs and tokens, this episode is a masterclass in the future of education. Our conversation explores how these technologies carve out a path for more dynamic and personalized teaching methods, assisting educators with AI-generated quizzes and in-depth content analysis.

The digital learning landscape is shifting before our eyes, and who better to narrate this transformation than the visionaries taking the helm at Academic Labs? They lay out their strategies for global engagement, the significance of curated, factual content, and their approach to fostering a symbiotic relationship between learners and creators. The interactive learning model they've pioneered isn't just about absorbing knowledge; it's about living it, earning through it, and connecting with it. Hear firsthand accounts of grappling with the current credential system and witness the solutions blockchain technology offers.

But what does the horizon of online education look like? Our guests paint a vivid picture of an ecosystem where learning is not just accessible but engaging, meaningful, and multilingual—thanks to AI's knack for breaking language barriers. Academic Labs' forward-thinking approach isn't just about educating; it's about building communities, bridging gaps between tech-savvy Web 3 users and newcomers, and offering a plethora of interactive features that make the learning experience as immersive as it is enlightening. Join us for this enlightening journey through the minds shaping the nexus of AI, blockchain, and education.

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The Startup Journey podcast is dedicated to spotlighting the journeys and insights of tech founders and investors shaping Web3. Guests of The Startup Voyage podcast join a world of industry leaders, startup visionaries, and seasoned investors who share valuable lessons, stories, and advice to inspire and empower a global community of tech founders.​

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:23

Hey, welcome back everyone to another episode of the Startup Voyage. We dive into the future of learning with academic labs, where AI meets blockchain in education. Now the problem? Traditionally education systems often lag in leveraging technology, leaving gaps in practical knowledge and sharing and valuation. Now, academics labs introduces a groundbreaking approach combining adaptive AI with Web3 to revolutionize learning. This platform uses learner NFTs and AAX tokens to create a dynamic, engaging in secure learning environment which addresses credential fraud, enhances learner engagement and establishes a transparent course pricing model. Who do we have today? Well, we've got the founder and CEO, terry Tan, and then we've got Kenaq Kik, which is the director of partnerships, and Ryan Chi, head of blockchain marketing and listing. Welcome to the podcast, everyone. Hello.

Speaker 2: 1:32

Nice to meet everyone, yep, great.

Speaker 1: 1:37

So I just want to get started. Maybe you can explain one of you and you guys choose who wants to talk. If you explain academics labs to people, you go to a conference. What is the elevator pitch? What do you tell people?

Speaker 2: 1:54

Maybe I can just kick off first. So basically, when we meet anyone, we will say that we are actually the first most integrated Web3 AI education platform, tokenized education platform, that we actually allow learners to get incentivized with NFTs and tokens and also creating a NFT for content creators. So that alone, the elevator pitch is very unique and also differentiated from the rest of the Web2 and current competitors.

Speaker 1: 2:28

Any one of you, ryan or Kenaq you want to add something a little bit different? Because I know, kenaq, you talk to a lot of partnerships, so maybe the story might be a little bit different.

Speaker 3: 2:37

I think on to what Terry mentioned. I think it's beyond just the tokens or the tokenomics of it, but as an education project in the Web3 space, that is a reality itself. So what I'd like to present to everyone is, in terms of Web3, we want to pinus for this education and I think we do it more systematically and dynamically with websites, learning, foundational learning as you do that towards a more higher level approach to target the rest of the demographic. So the pitch is to both bring in the Web3 users who are currently part of the enablers of our community, but also, beyond that, to give the Web2 users a bit more perspective on what Web3 is about and how you can enhance your skills in this space.

Speaker 1: 3:31

Okay, so tell me a little bit more about how do you guys curate the content on your platform, like who provides it and how do you qualify the type of information that goes into your system.

Speaker 3: 3:43

Yeah, so I guess currently. We just launched the MVP just a couple weeks ago, so the platform content libraries is definitely a bit small. We have about 20 videos. That primarily is done by ourselves.

Speaker 3: 3:58

So we have created the content ourselves with some partners that are knowledgeable in the Web3 space. But as we grow, I think we are working with several partners to develop a better in-depth content on that and also to work with certain freelancers that want to come on the platform to provide a more engaging content. I think, in terms of the methodology to how we kind of look at the content and view it is obviously first, the content has to be somewhat factual and secondly, obviously, the content has to have some depth.

Speaker 3: 4:34

I believe it can be very touching on superficial topics or just throwing a bit of a jargon around and I think that at least the engagement level in terms of knowing the audience. So we have certain expectations of setting the content. If you are targeting a certain set of demographic, then you will potentially create a tool that's just to set up the audience.

Speaker 5: 4:59

Yeah, I think. Just to add up, I think for lots of startups there could be a problem of like a chicken and egg when you're trying to create usage under the content. If you don't get content, you don't get users. Or if you don't get users, the content creators will go on board. So what we do is actually we invest a lot particularly on creating really good content that the users want to see and therefore we can see that the users really love our content. I think until now, our MP launch for around four weeks, we got around I think I would say around. I think 100,000 quids has been completed. So we're doing the content that the user really like and once we prove that the users really like our content, I feel it will be way easier for the content creators to really want to come on board and teach here. So that could be the incentive here and I think I think just add up to what Ken said just now I think one important part that we are trying to highlight to all educators on board is the utility.

Speaker 5: 5:54

Really we want the users to really have some takeaways from here.

Speaker 5: 5:57

So after they learn our platform, the next second, the next like the next hour, the next week then start generating some income or some kind of progress over learn on the on our platform. So that kind of actual incentive is what I think most educational platform, not only in Web3 space but for both Web3 and Web2 product, will need. So one of the most viewed course in our platform like people really like it is called, I think, web3 English, so we offer this for free to test out. It got around 10,000 views on YouTube and around, I think, 200 subscription on our platform, and the reason that is so good is because it actually teaches people how to explain a Web3 concept to someone else's. So after the users learn this, they can actually introduce this. What Web3 projects are they doing? Why are they investing in this? They can actually start doing something, make some progress, and this is something that's so vulnerable for the users because they can effectively turn what they learn into something that generates volume. So I would say that's already a key strategy there.

Speaker 1: 6:57

So current educational landscape. If we look at many online courses today, you've got video, you've got some audio. Sometimes you've got some downloads. You can do some homework and I guess there's a grading system and things like this. So those type of platforms are quite traditional and provided by some level of expert, and yours you're getting a lot of people into your platform completely new. Do you have a good feedback system to help improve it, because it's still quite early in the Web3 space?

Speaker 3: 7:31

Yeah, so I think we definitely get feedback from the audience or channels. We do have partners in specific countries that we work with. The help channel the brand promotion, obviously, and they control certain demographics of the users that we bring in. So they do kind of like a weekly or bi-weekly consolidation of certain considerations that we have to take into view and then as we develop a platform further, then those will be addressed in accordance as well.

Speaker 1: 8:05

So, looking at your platform, can you explain to me the use of AI and blockchain? I mean, as I mentioned, these other current applications, they don't use AI or blockchain, so how does that get featured into your platform?

Speaker 3: 8:21

Yeah, I guess I'll touch on the AI element and I think, ryan, perhaps you want to touch a bit more on the blockchain aspect of it. So I think, in terms of AI, like you mentioned earlier at the beginning of our introduction, we use kind of adaptive AI and I think that translates into two ways. One is for the mapping of a user journey, and when I say that, it kind of like covers the taxonomy of the content, so it goes through, it creates the library of content and then it builds up into certain levels I think some level seven of the difficulty or depth of the content that you're going out for, and across the topics. And as you as a learner company, to say that, okay, today I want to expedite my learning journey into today.

Speaker 3: 9:13

I'm a junior developer. I want to grow up to be a senior developer, but I want to expedite that within the next one to two years. Then how should I go about doing that, or which courses should I take? And through the AI models that we have run, then it will allow you to be able to kind of match certain courses that you should be taking and it will give you a bit more sense of where it should be attaining or what level of competency it should be getting in terms of getting the next step. So that's one aspect of the AI.

Speaker 3: 9:42

I think the other one which we are also working on. Potentially is this more of a generation of ideas or quizzes on the content itself. So if I'm a grader today, instead of coming to come and create or create certain quizzes myself, I can use the. Ai to generate. Based on scouring through my content, they can come out with certain ideas or concepts to test the audience on. So I think in two ways it helps the user, as well as fundamentally assess the content as well.

Speaker 1: 10:15

So you're saying you're using adaptive AI learning, I guess along the way as students are going through your course. I mean, how is the language model that's being used? Is that, how's that being curated, or are you leveraging some other database to have a start?

Speaker 3: 10:37

Yeah, so we're working with a relevant tech partner. I didn't do that in due course. Obviously, they have been in this space for a couple years and they've done it, tested that, that that algorithm models with one or two large companies in Singapore. They're working with one fairly big blockchain institute I can't share the name, but they did it with Danie and I think we trust them to be able to develop it further forward.

Speaker 1: 11:05

Okay, okay. Well, you know the nature of my question is. Usually, when we look at projects in general from the outside, there's always a question of do you really need AI or do you really need blockchain For the project? Does it really help or maybe slow it down? Ryan, do you have your sort of side on enabling blockchain in your platform and what the benefits are?

Speaker 5: 11:35

Of course. So let's just add a bit on why we use AI. It's just important when we talk to the practical education right Like think about learning, let's say, business English, you can already like test out how people is good at business English, like we do in high school, primary schools, not something we've been doing in quits and that's why practical AI that involves from multiple aspects, let's say how people understand it, etc is something we really need. So that's the utility of AI and that's why we're collaborating with our partners who have the specifications online. There are expertise on examination AI system or like a language AI, a large-level model, etc. Has become so important. Our more details we'll reveal later on and then we go back to the blockchain, of course.

Speaker 5: 12:19

So, in terms of blockchain, there are three major parts of the problems that we're trying to solve, and one of the very first ones is that how hard it is for educators nowadays to start creating content. So imagine this right Like imagine you're a professor in some top universities in Hong Kong or Singapore. You're probably around like 50, 60 years old and want to start creating content and you may be very, very good at teaching you can show that from a profile but at the same time, no one creates a video for you and no one creates a content for you. You need costs for that and once you finish the course, you're doing marketing, etc. Etc. So a lot of times, these good content creators who know how to create contents, they don't get specific fundings or, like they take all risk of, like, starting their content business. So what we're essentially doing is that the first, the first one we're solving is that we're allowing the educators to use our native token, ax, with pronounced as X, to mint their educator NFTs, which almost opens up an opportunity for the users to invest in the educators itself and hence the educators themselves, can allow us a share profit or share risk with those who are interested in their course or believe in the potential of their course. So that's our first part, which I believe is a very traditional way that we use Web3. That is opens up opportunities for people to get fundings in a more efficient way on a web space that Web2 can never done.

Speaker 5: 13:44

And the second part is about the free market, really. So our second NFTs, as we repeatedly highlight, is the learner NFTs, and the learner NFTs is like the access to the educational resources. So basically, with learner NFTs, the users can like buy, purchase or sell their ability to take courses. So basically imagine like buying courses in a traditional Web2 platform, right, like a Udemy or Coursera et cetera. So you do a one-off payment, let's say you pay for like $20, $30, you take the first course and oftentimes you'll find out that they don't really like it or like it is not the best, it's not what they expected. There's this difference between what they expect and what actually is there. So in this case it's one of them. It really just becomes some cost, right. But in a Web3 space we can actually allow this access education to become NFT and being traded around the learners and this particular stuff, adding up to the on-chain data creates really a free market for educational resources. You consume like some kind of token or NFT to learn, but if you don't like the courses, you can just give it to someone else and buy the courses you like more. So good courses are a lot higher and courses that doesn't really fit in it are a lot lower. So we're creating a free market that can send the best content in nature. So, yeah, I think this is actually what Web3 is given to us a transparent and quality oriented way for the value creation to take place.

Speaker 5: 15:15

And I think the final one really is the achievement of the NFT, so like a proof of the achievement. So before that, I want to tell actually a pretty fun story. So back when I was in high school, I had this economics teacher and he actually take a fake course and Coursera is from Harvard Business School. It's like a PDF file being given to him, but he used that to like show his actual educational proof and he charges like a thousand Hong Kong dollars per course. So basically, I mean right now in the Web2 space, it's just so hard for us, like average people, where you win your HR, to check the actual educational potential. But like Web3 is different. It's immutable and traceable. So with that there's no way that you can figure educational proof. It's on train, everyone can check that. Like there's no way you can just send me a link or send me a PDF to prove that you finished this course. I can just input that kind of public key on the Easter scan and sector to show that you actually completed the course and it is recorded by the smart contract for our own smart contract on the web. So that's the third thing, the achievement NFTs. And to gain this achievement NFTs that will lead to already sent the system, which Taryon may elaborate further, but yeah, generally that will be over an FTC system.

Speaker 1: 16:27

I just want to notify you guys, just in case I can hear you guys typing once in a while, so it's coming across on the audio. So, ryan, when you were not talking and then you're typing, I could hear like the keyboard. So be careful with that. Yeah, yeah, all right. Okay, one thing that I wanted to ask you three is basically maybe you can share your journey into creation, the creation of an academic slab. Like, why did you guys even bother to get into the space?

Speaker 2: 17:00

Yeah, I think maybe I can just kick off with that. So, basically, the education business for the last probably 10 years. So originally we actually run a chain of brick and mortar centers in Singapore education centers, and then we actually encountered COVID-19, right, we actually found that running a physical business sometimes has its own challenges In terms of, you know, like doing COVID-19, we are students, are not allowed to go to the centers. We have to actually clean up the place right, sanitize the place, so there are a lot of challenges during the period. So actually a lot of learners actually went online to actually learn right, and therefore we actually started to actually strategize to move our business online. So, and once we got online, we started actually AI tuition application for learners. And then we discovered also there are also some challenges, right, like incentives and also content ownership among the community.

Speaker 2: 18:16

So, just like one year ago, we decided that we actually want to merge online business education business with AI and Web3. That's how academic labs is being conceptualized and born one year back. So that's the overall summary of the growth. So since then, we have been picking up the pace. We have launched our MVP platform, we have built up our communities to about 100,000 on Twitter and also quite a substantial number of telegraph. We are adding on more substance on the platform means more videos, more capabilities right Related to AI and Web3. And we are building the blockchain as well. So far, the journey has been full and, of course, very challenging as well, because we want to make the platform as a usable and user friendly for the learners and creators.

Speaker 1: 19:14

Okay. So I think one of the challenges for online learning I think a lot of data will show is just people will sign up initially because maybe very good landing page that converts them, some referral, something like this. But and then, once you get it, maybe a lot of students, even though they're very interested, they get very busy and they don't finish their course. Or they come back and forth only when they have time but end up not finishing the course. Do you guys do any incentives to get people to complete the course or how do you manage that challenge? I mean?

Speaker 1: 19:50

I'll tell you definitely right, and I think that's also one of the reasons why.

Speaker 3: 19:54

I decided to transit the business into online learning and come out of the Web3 and AI idea, I think the rub of 70% of courses out there, online courses out there not completed, or at least about 10 after the first hour they give up. So I think, to address that what we're doing right now is making the learning very easy to absorb, in the sense of much size learning. That's one. So the content, on a platform is relatively short I won't say it's a full course.

Speaker 3: 20:23

Obviously it's. As far as like modular expect of today, I learned something new, maybe a new concept, and I'm probably interested in it and I'll develop it further as I create more. So that's, one, and then obviously in terms of the incentives, then I like what.

Speaker 3: 20:40

Terri and Ryan mentioned briefly. We do have our own native tokens that will kind of like reward the users that accumulate more NFTs as they create more videos or as they accumulate more knowledge on the platform. So it keeps them engaged in the sense that you know, look, if I learn more, I get XRMot tokens or even XNormal rewards, which you know we can translate that into other things as we go along. So I think the hope is that as we build up more partners, then you know, of course, for more rewards they're more tangible as well and that builds up the more increasing engagement for the users.

Speaker 1: 21:20

Right. So it sounds like you guys are building a partner network to ensure that the content relevance and quality continues to improve over a period of time. Is that correct?

Speaker 3: 21:35

So a couple of things I may obviously the partners is very important to us as fundamentally to build up the community, and so like what you mentioned to build up the content. But I think the area of public touch on also is also trying to invite the freelancers.

Speaker 3: 21:50

I say the freelancers economy in terms of those who are not part of our institution who just like to create content or go to teaching but just don't know how to market, or they don't really know how to present themselves and they come onto the platform and potentially earn something. So it's two ways they're trying to go about this.

Speaker 1: 22:08

Well, I think one of the best ways to learn many times is also being able to teach it. Do you guys envision some type of you know, train the trainer kind of model to improve the learning of experience for the students? Maybe I can kick off some.

Speaker 2: 22:25

I mean can it first can?

Speaker 2: 22:26

it yeah, right Okay so we have some plans going forward. So we will be conducting actually studios, online studios for content creation. We'll invite freelancers to come attend the studio, teach them how to make videos, shot videos probably also teach them how to present properly in front of the camera. So these are some of the initiatives that we are trying to launch in the future. Right, in terms of getting good content on the platform, we shout to more freelancers to teach them how to make money on our platform. Right, so basically producing good videos, helping them to market their videos to more learners so that they can earn some money. Right, because our platform actually charges quite a small fraction of what they earn, so most of the revenue actually goes back to them. So these are the initiatives we are looking to launch. So, can it? Maybe you want to add on some ideas or that we have went through?

Speaker 3: 23:28

Yeah, obviously. So what I mentioned is just what I expect of video creation, which I think a lot of the creators out there. They have the creative teach, they have the materials, but they don't know how to create a proper video with you know, fresh media with you know. So the AI tools they are not so familiar, so they can't present it in a more corino way. I think that's the intention, need to give them the training.

Speaker 3: 23:50

But I think, as a bigger picture, I think we want to follow the kind of the room taxonomy of learning, in the sense that you know first, you attain, you learn, get accustomed to knowledge, you kind of repeat the knowledge, you get more competency. Those are going that of content and that's why I mentioned you're getting partners, private institutes or even universities that have more longer content. That is specific to the data science course, the guy you started, and then beyond that. Then the next level, obviously at the highest level of the taxonomy of learning, is to you know, reinforces your learning and also brings the learning to other users on the platform itself. So I think there's a couple of expects one, you know how to do the video creation.

Speaker 3: 24:35

But I think on the longer spectrum of things we are looking to, build up a content library so that the people get you know a bit more structured learning in that sense. So now it's bike size and then you'll build up like a medium term learning and then obviously higher in depth learning and then you know they can come on again to the concrete itself. So it's like a step by step process that we're building up on the platform itself.

Speaker 1: 24:58

Okay. Well, I think on many social media platforms it's becoming a movement where people who are afraid to be in front of the camera not very good, they're starting to use AI avatars. You know, they train the, the, the software for the voice, and they just need to. You know, take some text, throw it in and basically it produces it. Why are you guys looking at that and using less freelancers, or what do you think?

Speaker 3: 25:27

I think it's a it's a bit of a mix of both. Obviously some of the freelancers they are good at the content, as I mentioned, you know they have the materials and I've opened to them.

Speaker 3: 25:37

You know, using the AI as a voice over, or even AI to contribute to create the animation. I think that's just the visuals or the expects of getting the user engaged, right? But I think for us, it's more of the quality or the depth of content they need to generate and the expertise that they follow through. So obviously there's different type of content, right? I think not all you know can use animation or AI.

Speaker 3: 25:58

If, like let's say, for us, we also focus on instructional videos, let's say I know, how to create a wallet or how to go into create certain codes, then you need, you know you can use the voice over, but you still need someone to present on the screen without you know, using the real animation right so that you know, brings back the knowledge that, as a creator, you have to apply that for, rather than just you know copy and pasting whatever AI text that you have.

Speaker 3: 26:26

I think it's a. It's a good mix that we have the balance both you know, the freelancers, as well as the completely relying on the AI technology.

Speaker 1: 26:33

That is something well, do you believe that that's the future, though? I mean, there's a lot of narrative around the fact that you can create these faceless videos, right, yeah, but the avatars? But I'm not sure. I mean, I was asking people in my network would they be open to talking that to a KOL celebrity, knowing that it's an AI? And many of them said yes, so it made me think is this the future? We're just talking to machines.

Speaker 5: 27:02

I think there's actually really two aspects about it. So the word first of all is about the reducing, the reducing I would say, reducing, the, I would say the threshold to create educational concepts, right, so go think about that, this. That way, everyone have some knowledge to teach, but not everyone is a good educator. So what's supposed to mean is that you may have knowledge they acutely so far. So, doing podcast, so far. You must have a lot of knowledge on how to create a good episode, how to ask good questions, right, but if you're asked to immediately teach it on, like a university level lecture, I mean, can you immediately think of the script? Maybe you can, if I'm wrong, but, like, imagine, like is everyone? Then maybe not everyone can do that. Right, they have the knowledge on their particular fields, but doing it, making an educational content and start generating product, is hard. So we can actually complement that from the AI technology there. So think about what Sam Altman said. Right, like, ai is not going to replace human, what is it doing is actually just increasing the productivity, and that's what AI is doing here. At the same time, right, you may not be able to, like, you can directly generate questions from AI, right, but as an expert, you know that this question and answer may not be the perfect one to train someone to make fix and trick and fix there and you're trying to make sure the quality is doing better than what AI generated using your own expertise. That AI currently don't have. So I think that's the one of how it's been created. So that's the first element really just reducing the threshold for people to share their knowledge right to use AI's power to make education something that everyone can be a good teacher. So the second element, I think, is social. So if you ask me what is the really the best education platform right now, I would say is an example that everyone should really learn from is definitely Duolingo is really implements the social elements there. You can see what other people are just asking, creating their own question there, so using user-generated content to really build up a strong community. So I think user-generated content amongst everything.

Speaker 5: 29:02

Think about not only education, think about like other brands, like Xing, or like platforms like Instagram, etc. User-generated content is the key. So lowering the threshold of creating educational contents here also allows us to create better user-generated content, which, in a sense, adds up to the social elements of the whole platform. So social plus education, I believe, is a more as a more wallet incentives than anything for people to learn and to create content. So we're creating. Think about not only as teacher teaching students, but like I can be teacher, you can be teacher, we teach each others. So this reminds me of what's I saying. Again, like I give an apple, I give you one, you give me one, we still have one, but I have an idea, you have an idea. We exchange ideas, we both have two ideas. So that's the fact that we almost want to create there okay, now that makes sense, a lot of sense.

Speaker 1: 29:54

So so far, with the launch of your MVP, what has been the typical feedback from users, whether they be challenges or what you know, the requests that are coming through?

Speaker 3: 30:08

yeah, so I'm one of the big ones. But one of the comments obviously is based on the content that we have right now. It's small, foundational and fundamental. So as a short thing, we do need to build up that content library. But I think the idea for us back in the FPP is just more for getting the initial feedback and getting the kind of users to be a bit more used to the UX, the.

Speaker 2: 30:34

UI design and you know coming out with other comments that they wish to see on the platform.

Speaker 3: 30:39

So I think that's one in terms of the content, depending on content creation, and obviously the community is also looking out for the other features that we mentioned in terms of like the NFTs that will be creating in the next four months. So I guess those are the two things, the main things that people are looking out for commented so far, so we are trying to work on those.

Speaker 1: 31:06

So I guess what is the outcome that users are looking to achieve when they come to your platform? So you are saying the information is too foundational or too simple. So what are they looking to achieve? Is it more of a social thing to be able to talk about web 3 in a more sophisticated manner?

Speaker 3: 31:26

I think that's a mix of users. Obviously one is you know the content or like, say, the learning, the true learners who want to really come out and be able to be certified or tested to say that, okay, I know now, today. I have a third in web 3 development after attending a treatment course on circadian labs. I think obviously those people we are not going to ignore and those are going to be part of the core community and we hope to work on those.

Speaker 3: 31:53

But I think the second aspect is why you already mentioned the author in terms of that social element that you know they want to communicate and interact and perhaps, you know, use it as an interface to come and connect with other learners in the community, to come out of your own forums. So we are also working with a potential partner to create a more interactive way of carrying out the content in that sense, meaning like having a separate console or web video embedded and within this very video stream they can interact by giving each other gifts, by even, you know, coming up polls and quizzes on that portal as well. So it makes it a bit more fun and people can comment also when they speak to the creators, or even creating their own networks or creating their own chats, even with that problem as well. So, yeah, two extracts, I would say.

Speaker 1: 32:46

So I guess can you walk me through, then, the process of someone going to your platform and how they interacted? What's the best path you know for them to discover and understand how to engage?

Speaker 3: 33:00

Yeah, I think for us right now, because we are running a campaign, kind of like a mini reports campaign in conjunction with that launch. So once you look in then you know the pop-up appears in terms of our participatory campaign, which is what Ryan shared earlier in terms of attending the quizzes. So we do have like a weekly three quizzes a week. You know, within these six weeks campaign that people can interact with and you have videos that people can learn and earn points from. So that's the start and obviously the interface is not too hard to navigate around.

Speaker 3: 33:36

You know, there's two major items, I would say, beyond the campaign, you know. First is the learner page whereby you can go in and click and subscribe to Causes, which is all free right now. Watch the video, if you stop halfway then you know the detail of your prom, or rather the next login, you know, you will kind of see where you left out, left off, add, and then you can continue that thing and nothing.

Speaker 3: 33:59

The second aspect is you are navigating to become a creator, right, and that takes a bit more, I would say playing around, because of how you create the videos of, you know, creating each module, creating each subtraction and things like that, but it's not rocket science yet. So this is a tool of features that we are going to put in.

Speaker 5: 34:20

Yeah, of course.

Speaker 5: 34:21

So just to add up, I think already key, important things that we are tackling.

Speaker 5: 34:25

I think the hardest thing for us, to start at the user decision is to keep the incentives going, to keep giving questions that the users found challenging and creating that kind of sense of achievement when this is complete and to really give out the incentives.

Speaker 5: 34:40

I mean, in terms of Web3, a really common method like what we do is going to be airdropped, so it's really creating as educational platform to give that kind of sense of achievement when they complete the course and to use airdrop to create that kind of incentive at the start, at the first place, and therefore we are trying to acquire as much users as possible. So just to give some data, whenever the users finish some kind of courses, some kind of challenges, quizzes or like they do, daily login will give out some kind of thing we call the campaign points. So each users can get a max around 200 campaign points and we actually get like around 2 or actually 3 million campaign points already. So that's a lot of users that are engaging with our videos and questions, challenges every day or like, etc. So I think this is really good proof, like giving users sufficient incentive. They feel that they learn something. They feel that they also get something. So I think that would be the key there.

Speaker 1: 35:34

Okay, is it fair to me to say that you guys are targeting users who already have set up a wallet?

Speaker 5: 35:44

Not really, I would say. I want to make this line more like for the Web 2.5 users. So of course, if you sell wallet, it's good, you can connect and interact more. You can join the learning center system. But if not yet, we're still welcome for any kind of courses and user training content. And that's what in the next phase of the wallaman will actually open more kind of payment options for courses and, of course, if you use our native token, the whole thing will be more efficient and you can also enjoy the platform more as the whole ecosystem is built on the native token, the 3NFT system plus adaptive AI or some help build on train.

Speaker 5: 36:19

But at the same time, the part about like if it's one of the enjoy the courses and you like the contents here, because all users through all educators are incentivized by our specific mechanisms that they can still enjoy the high quality contents through direct payments later on.

Speaker 5: 36:37

So we want to welcome as much users as possible and I think, when it comes to Web 3 and there are ways that we can make a web through the adaptable to Web 2 user in a way that we create wallets for that. So this is a concept. We didn't really implement it yet, so don't take this, but like, this is something we're considering, think about, like the account base, right, what they do exactly is that they're trying to create wallet for the users in more web to adaptable ways. So that's what we're thinking right now trying to create something that both Web 3 and Web 2 users can enjoy, and we're trying to incentivize the users to engage in the community as more as possible so that, as I said, they can exchange more ideas and really take away some valuable knowledge and skills from the yeah, because I am looking your website in for sure.

Speaker 1: 37:26

You sign up and it says no further KYC ID checks, but then you can gain access to the weekly draw so you can participate and start doing some learning. But actually it's here to get the AAX tokens you actually have to set up a wallet, or does it? You have a counter somewhere that it still counts how many tokens you've earned and when you finally set up your wallet, then you actually deliver it.

Speaker 5: 37:51

So, basically, we still count the token you gained so far and then if, on a climate, you still need the wallet, of course, else then we just cannot deliver that yeah, okay, yeah, alright, it's cool, cool.

Speaker 1: 38:01

Yeah, I see you have a video that shows learn more about AAX. Maybe you can have another video that shows them how to set up a wallet or like you said you know if you found a very simple way for the, the wallet, to already be connected to the count.

Speaker 5: 38:22

That'd be great as well yeah, I think we're actually cladding with someone who will create what videos about how to use the metamask and make it extra for the beginners?

Speaker 1: 38:31

so yeah yeah cool, cool, cool.

Speaker 2: 38:34

I think, to add on to what Arthur has asked, in the future plans will include wallets being actually set up for the users in the system itself, so they do not need to connect external wallets. So that's the plan in the future.

Speaker 1: 38:48

Yeah, I mean if you know, I always have this discussion around the BTC ETF and why people think it's so exciting, besides the fact that there will be more liquidity into this one commodity. But you know the web to people they don't care, they don't need a wallet, they go through fidelity or you know the ones at grayscale. So usually the web to people, if you want to call them, they have, they don't have to worry about it. And I'm kind of thinking, maybe truly for mass adoption, it might start going that way where the walls are already set up and you just connect accounts together somehow, right, and then when you start going to do, like you know, digital identity, self-solving identity, this type of things, then maybe it's not going to matter anymore.

Speaker 2: 39:41

Yeah yeah, I mean to. I mean up to today, right, if you look on the internet, I think 96% of the global population are still not so well versed in crypto. So it's our mission to actually bridge them across to web 3. So we will have like foundation causes like how to set up a wallet and things like that. But I mean, in the future, it should be a Easy for them to just sign up and then we have the wallets in the system itself, so they do not need to actually go through this.

Speaker 1: 40:11

Okay, Well, do you guys face any Conflicts around the regulatory landscape with your product? I guess I can't think of any.

Speaker 5: 40:22

Is there anything you guys need to make sure that you comply when it comes to me, data protection, data privacy so if you take a look at where our core members of feeding Singapore, hong Kong, we actually do have some other regulations that we need to definitely deal with. So that's why we're actually talking about lots of legal experts to make sure everything is perfectly like following the local regulations system, as well as the consistent political change due to the how this to country actually plays a great focus on web street. So, yeah, of course we got to deal with some cloud regulatory. We're especially in the nature of the token we're offering or like in the sense that how we are going to make sure that data is secure, and that's why auditing firms clapper of auditing firms, etc. And get essential licenses is also quite important for us, and we're also going to work on it before the tge and trying to get everything stored out and that our user is secure, which I think is the most important thing.

Speaker 3: 41:15

I think just to add on also. I think of course obviously the the PDP laws here fairly stringent in Singapore and Hong Kong, but I think for us as an education platform we're not taking any sensitive data, as I would say. So in terms of that we are quite careful and mindful to add here to the church rules and guidelines.

Speaker 1: 41:36

So let me ask this question, because, with the recent funding that you guys received, how are you going to spend it? What's, what's the focus on building academic labs?

Speaker 2: 41:46

I think the first and foremost is a product development, which actually costs quite a lot of capital, right? And then, of course, marketing expenses, because we want to reach out to more creators and learners. So, and these are the two major expenses that we are going to budget for, and then the last is, of course, for our CEX listing course, right. So these are the three main areas.

Speaker 1: 42:14

So for the creators like what markets are you trying to pull from everywhere, or are you looking at specific markets?

Speaker 3: 42:20

There's no specific market that we are targeting. We are again in most education platform in the sense we are global, but to put into perspective our current users of the demographics of where we are at right now, you know, southeast Asia is key. Vietnam is one of the biggest market. In Indonesia as well. We're trying to build up the the South Korean market and we do have a small community in Nigeria.

Speaker 3: 42:44

I'd say local community traction, and that's where the budgeting will be signed in place to create local teams, to build up the local communities and naturally they will focus on the larger global community.

Speaker 1: 43:01

Okay, so I guess the fact that you're hitting multiple markets with different language conditions. Will you use AI to then do translations of the content, like maybe to make it easier for everyone in, like translating subtitles and whatnot?

Speaker 3: 43:20

That's a good point. And again, you know, we have not gone into that in terms of the AI translation.

Speaker 3: 43:26

But we also encourage, you know, local partners to come up with content within their local language of that. Obviously, I think that makes it easier for them to connect and communicate. Of course, it's best if they can do subtitles, but if not, then you know, we also know that it's a good way of getting the connecting in the local community there. So we encourage all forms of languages to become on platform. In fact, we do have one content right now. That's in Spanish.

Speaker 1: 43:56

All right. Do you guys find it difficult to find developers? You know technical talent in APAC? I mean, I hear Vietnam has a. It's a big. Become a big development hub, I guess, like Shenzhen. Obviously there's a lot of people there. That's affordable. What are your guys thoughts on that?

Speaker 3: 44:15

I think Asia is definitely an increasing place to look at for tech talents, you know, compared to the rest of the saturated market. So it's definitely a good place to start and I think the cost perspective is increasing, but I would say it's more reasonable than those developed countries that we initially talked to. So, yeah, it's a good study point in the countries that you found out after all, Okay, okay.

Speaker 1: 44:41

Well, we've reached about 45 minutes on our podcast and I guess I'll ask each one of you, I guess, a question or any of you could answer, and basically it's like you know, just give your perspective where you think AI and blockchain will play an education beyond what you see today. So it's future looking.

Speaker 2: 45:04

You know, how will AI and blockchain be used in education for something that's maybe too early to realize today, I think increasingly becoming very important for both AI and Web3, especially the last two years and this year it has been picking up right. So you can see Bitcoin increasing again 43k. We can see a lot of new AI startups coming about. So I think it's just the beginning and we hope to catch the wave to start early and start development right, because I think for the next 10 to 20 years, this will be very important in the daily life, especially in education right. Especially, using AI to learn is becoming very common. Everyone uses chat, gpt to find out stuff, learn stuff, creating things right, it's just. And also we also know that having a Web3 will actually using the blockchain to record transactions for like getting a real ownership of creation of education content. These are very important topics that we actually think about and try how to actually produce goods and products and services to actually help the economy.

Speaker 3: 46:26

Okay yeah, I think for me, I believe in special learning. I think that's something that will come up in the next five to eight years, whereby you know, you kind of like put on a goggles, you know now Apple has the Apple vision and whatnot you immerse yourself into a digital classroom. Everything is virtual, you can interact with certain elements, you know you can blend the reality with what's in the virtual space, and that is something that will be, I guess, more far-fetched. But you know special learning, which is also part of getting ties in with Web3, because you can interact in the environment or you can even handle transactions while you're wearing the inverse in the platform. You know in a Web3 way, right, you know transferring your tokens or making transactions over blockchain. And then I think another aspect, like what Terry mentioned, is more AI learning, and I think AI learning in terms of robots.

Speaker 3: 47:19

I guess you can say that in the future.

Speaker 3: 47:21

It's not to say that teachers will be replaced, but in terms of more factual learning or baseline knowledge, then, you know, generated by AI techs or even robots right now. Even we are using check GP3 or check GP4 right now. Beyond that, you know, it can be one um certain functions of machines to help them, and I think the teachers are there just to enable the classroom, or rather to give them more emotional support. So I think, in terms of knowledge preservation or knowledge impartation, then the AI and environment comes in very strongly. We want to create a more immersive environment and also to generate content for the learners in the future.

Speaker 5: 48:02

So when I pitch to investors or partners, I think one question that they always ask is why Web3,? Right, why Web's education, particularly on-chain? And I think we've got to use first principle thinking here, like think back to what is Web3. And I think one simple answer is that it carries Waddu. It carries Waddu on the internet, which Web2 never did, and I think this is actually something that's quite natural, particularly in the education field. Like video games not really content creation there may be emotional Waddu's, but educational content, especially professional knowledge, is like almost an investment to yourself. No one can deny that. So there's a Waddu carried itself in the educational content which was not yet fully realized in the Web2 field, considering the transparency in the market, the one of payment, the whole issue about the management system of the platform. So I think Web3 you have is natural, waddu is natural mechanisms that just suit the educational market, and I think that's why I think education being on Web3 is going to be a trend, almost due to how online it can be in terms of the nature of education and the nature of Web3 and how they essentially align together.

Speaker 5: 49:19

And I think the same idea applies for AI. Right, like AI again is something that increases the efficiency and effectiveness of human beings a lot. The same for educational resources. Educational resources is something that we are looking forward to use it as some way to train ourselves, and I would say being able to create educational resources, being able to learn with AI, is actually the best way for people to learn in the AI age, to create values that AI cannot create. So let me put it this way. So at this point, humans add our own understandings of knowledge and skills upon what we learn. Ai help us learn faster, and so, with those knowledge and our own thoughts, we won't be able to replace by AI. I think that's the key here. So education and AI, or education plus Web3, I all think there is a natural match there.

Speaker 1: 50:12

OK, yeah, I think, with the advent of AI, for sure, it is proven, along with blockchain, to disrupt a lot faster than any other technology that we've had before. And I think the one thing about technology we always know is developed by humans and there is a time and place for this technology. It only can take you so far, but I believe, if you look at the financial services market, especially with the Bitcoin ETF, and how AI can start looking for alpha, if you think about it, what is the value of the people behind it, including teachers? So I think, over a period of time, yes, the speed to learn be faster, but I think that last mile, the last 10%, is probably going to be owned by humans.

Speaker 3: 51:06

This is my thinking, yeah, it has to be, yeah it has to be yeah. But we always believe that AI can enable it.

Speaker 3: 51:12

I think right now you can see certain learning models where you can scan the retinal of the students and you can see their level of concentration and whether they are absorbing knowledge faster than it is. In that sense enable it. But like what you mentioned I think pretty much the end and I think I shared also in terms of the emotional aspect of our teaching then the teacher or human has come into this. It cannot be just very much automated. I think everybody still understands that, or rather it's critical to note that we are not going to be replaced. It's just going to speed up the speed of our job trial and knowledge.

Speaker 1: 51:48

Right, there was this one story Africa which university? But some university had teachers complained about many papers being turned in that is clearly written by AI and then they changed the rules like OK, you have to come to class no connection to the internet to access AI, and then you have to write your paper or type your paper in class, which is a quick fix, but it's not the ultimate solution.

Speaker 3: 52:15

Yeah, it's going back a step, but it's interesting.

Speaker 1: 52:19

It is interesting.

Speaker 5: 52:21

So how do we go Get us important yeah?

Speaker 1: 52:23

exactly. All right. Well, I want to thank you all of you for joining the podcast and it was a great conversation and I you know good luck to your next phase of onboarding both content creators and learners to your platform. Thank you.

Speaker 5: 52:39

Thank you very much, arthur. That's definitely all we're going to talk about. Thank you so much, arthur. Good luck to you. Startavoid also.

Speaker 1: 52:44

Hey, so that concludes this episode of the StartAvoid podcast. I would like to thank all of you for listening to this episode, and I'd really appreciate it if you leave any type of comments that you'd like to share, because it helps to feedback on how I deliver these podcasts.