Embark on a journey through the transformative world of Bitcoin halving with co-hosts Andy Kay and Arthur Lee, where the veil is lifted on the economic marvel shaping the crypto market. We unravel the intricacies of mining, discuss the impact of institutional players, and venture into Vietnam's digital currency revolution. Our guests offer a wealth of knowledge on the delicate balance between innovation and regulation, setting the stage for a riveting exploration of Bitcoin's future.
In the bustling intersection of technology and finance, branding and user experience emerge as pivotal forces in Web3's adoption. We examine the crafting of platforms that invite the crypto-curious and dissect the role of education in demystifying the digital realm. From the SEC's influence to the soaring potential of places like Georgia, this episode is a treasure trove of insights for the tech-savvy and the economically inclined alike.
As we look to the horizon, the discussion on digital identity projects in Asia paints a picture of a future where blockchain technology is not just a buzzword but a cornerstone of our digital lives. Zero-knowledge proofs, the handling of biometric data, and the burgeoning GameFi sector all take center stage. Plus, the anticipation for the Wolf Summit in Hong Kong is palpable, promising a confluence of ideas and opportunities for Web3 startups and aficionados. Join us for a deep dive into a conversation that's as enlightening as it is engaging.
The Startup Voyage Podcast is ranked top #15 Web3 podcast show compared to 45 others per Feedspot (https://podcasts.feedspot.com/web3_podcasts)
Be a guest: https://thestartupvoyage.com
Connect on Social:
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The Startup Journey podcast is dedicated to spotlighting the journeys and insights of tech founders and investors shaping Web3. Guests of The Startup Voyage podcast join a world of industry leaders, startup visionaries, and seasoned investors who share valuable lessons, stories, and advice to inspire and empower a global community of tech founders.
We take a journalistic / reality show concept to ignite conversations that empower the next generation of disruptors. Join us as we dive deep into the dynamic world of technology, unraveling success stories, industry trends, and game-changing innovations.
Embark on a journey through the transformative world of Bitcoin halving with co-hosts Andy Kay and Arthur Lee, where the veil is lifted on the economic marvel shaping the crypto market. We unravel the intricacies of mining, discuss the impact of institutional players, and venture into Vietnam's digital currency revolution. Our guests offer a wealth of knowledge on the delicate balance between innovation and regulation, setting the stage for a riveting exploration of Bitcoin's future.
In the bustling intersection of technology and finance, branding and user experience emerge as pivotal forces in Web3's adoption. We examine the crafting of platforms that invite the crypto-curious and dissect the role of education in demystifying the digital realm. From the SEC's influence to the soaring potential of places like Georgia, this episode is a treasure trove of insights for the tech-savvy and the economically inclined alike.
As we look to the horizon, the discussion on digital identity projects in Asia paints a picture of a future where blockchain technology is not just a buzzword but a cornerstone of our digital lives. Zero-knowledge proofs, the handling of biometric data, and the burgeoning GameFi sector all take center stage. Plus, the anticipation for the Wolf Summit in Hong Kong is palpable, promising a confluence of ideas and opportunities for Web3 startups and aficionados. Join us for a deep dive into a conversation that's as enlightening as it is engaging.
The Startup Voyage Podcast is ranked top #15 Web3 podcast show compared to 45 others per Feedspot (https://podcasts.feedspot.com/web3_podcasts)
Be a guest: https://thestartupvoyage.com
Connect on Social:
IG: @thestartupvoyage
Twitter: @_thestartupvoyage
About:
The Startup Journey podcast is dedicated to spotlighting the journeys and insights of tech founders and investors shaping Web3. Guests of The Startup Voyage podcast join a world of industry leaders, startup visionaries, and seasoned investors who share valuable lessons, stories, and advice to inspire and empower a global community of tech founders.
We take a journalistic / reality show concept to ignite conversations that empower the next generation of disruptors. Join us as we dive deep into the dynamic world of technology, unraveling success stories, industry trends, and game-changing innovations.
First of all, let me introduce myself. My name is Kiyo and I'm going to be a co-host of this conversation today. So, guys, please introduce yourselves.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody, thanks for showing up today. My name is Andy Kay. I'm the founder of Web3 Research. We're focusing primarily on the intersection of Web3 and AI technologies, so it's a pleasure to be here. I've been in the space since 2010. So a lot of ups and downs I've had the pleasure of experiencing in the space.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I'm Arthur Lee and I am with the Wild Summit team as the head of content and producing a lot of the good stuff that's out there on social media, including podcasts, and doing these MIAs with our partners.
Speaker 1:Awesome. So on today's Twitter space, we have two topics to discuss. First of it is Bitcoin halving and the second one is cryptocurrency adoption in Asia. I bet you guys saw Bitcoin graph recently. Everyone feels great, everyone is happy to see the number of five and the certain amount of zeros after it, you know, and everything feels good and definitely we anticipate more. And as for Bitcoin halving, like a short question to start do you remember yourselves when were you actually what were you doing when the previous Bitcoin halving happened? Like, do you remember your impressions of the previous event? How was it for?
Speaker 3:you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can go first. So I've seen a couple of these and they generally follow a similar pattern. But I've noticed overall that patterns been increasing as the amount of adoption has been increasing. So people are starting to anticipate the halving sooner, because before it'd be like there's a halving and then six months later we'd see a bump, or sometimes even a little bit longer. So I feel like now it's kind of a sell the news type of event, so people are anticipating it more. So that's what I do expect. Some of the recent action has been related to us, because we're aware of what's going on. The last halving I was a part of, I was lucky to be in the process of building a DeFi protocol on Solana, so we all know how that worked out. I was very lucky the last halving to stay the lead. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean for myself, I remember. I mean, I think about what happened in the past and getting understanding of what halving was, and maybe that's something that we can actually cover just to make sure people know. But when I got into the industry, it was before the last halving and it was. I didn't even know what to expect. And there's all this talk about Bitcoin spiking up when this happens and I've been studying up a lot about the past trends and it seems like that's what's going to happen this time around, as far as we can see now that Bitcoin is worth 52. But I think there's a lot more. We can discuss more about it, like what's spurring the interest besides the Bitcoin ETF that just passed in the US and maybe soon to pass in other jurisdictions? But yeah, I just remember being really confused, so I don't know. Just for the listeners on here, maybe we can talk about what is the Bitcoin halving and we know what does it mean?
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, sure, maybe some of you guys can explain in simple words what is Bitcoin halving? Because, like, as for us, from our perspective as a marketing team, we always strive to deliver difficult things and terms and very, very simple words, like we are talking to first graders, and it's basically essentially the simple speeches and the simple line of conversation. The easier for people to understand what is going on here, what's going on around this halving thing. Who are we going to halve?
Speaker 2:I can take a swing at that in as simple terms as possible. So essentially, what's happening is it becomes twice as hard or half as easy to get Bitcoin as a miner, and miners exist to help validate the network, because the key component to Web3 technology one of many key components is the decentralization, so it's not one central authority that does that, and miners help distribute that authority. So it becomes harder for miners to get, twice as hard for miners to get Bitcoin by participating in the network. So I hope that that's as simple as I could make it on the fly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great, this is basically it. Actually, you mentioned decentralization and the last big news was accepting Bitcoin ETF, and how do you guys feel like when big guys let's call them this enter the market and gain in their walls thousands of Bitcoins? How do you think is it going to affect the principles of decentralization in Web3?
Speaker 3:Well, I was just going to add I mean, I was also trying to sum up really quickly on Bitcoin halving and I know, andy, you took an approach when you talk about mining and if you think about it from a non-Web2 person's point of view, they probably don't know what the heck you're talking about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's true, but I guess if you take a look at I was reading with okay, I'll read this one paragraph that kind of just clarified a little bit easier. So anyone who's not in familiar with Bitcoin and why it's so exciting is that there is only going to be a limited supply, and this is part of the thing about Bitcoin, it's not like today.
Speaker 3:If you need more money, the governments will go and print more money and then you can create more money. If you've been in the space of finance, you'll learn the understanding of dilution of the value of paper money, fiat money, but anyway. So Bitcoin is. One of the special features is that there will only be 21 million Bitcoin ever. You know, once it's been what Andy had talked about, mine created Right now there's a little bit over what 19 million that have been mined or created, that's out in circulation, that's being sold in whole or basically it's kind of like fractionalized now and that leaves just under two million Bitcoin left to be created and I believe like one one more having or two more havings, and then all it really does? It cuts the. It basically reduces the supply of, I guess, of how miners can create these and how much they get paid for it. I guess I mean those are little specifics you can read, read on, but the whole point is there's only going to be 20 million Bitcoin in circulation once it's all created and the whole idea is like scarcity, right, so people will want it more, people are going to buy it and invest in it and, naturally, over the course of what?
Speaker 3:How many years has it been? Over 10 years, the price continues to go up and it's pretty exciting. So that's your question, joe, you were talking about. You know the excitement of these big guys coming in. You know the I guess, before the idea, right, this is supposed to be a currency decentralized and not any central authority controlling it, away from the big governments who want to want to take hold and maybe, you know, reduce its value soon. So far, but I guess, once the Bitcoin ETF has actually passed, it has created more demand and I think it was reported somewhere what, what, some Bitcoin that we were saying today is that 52,000. And it's, it's reached a market cap of one trillion, which is really exciting, which is one of the top 10 of all assets in the world, right? So I think that's quite, quite exciting. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Just to kind of go off of that statement, there is the not to be a negative, negative Nancy here. But you know there is a potential pitfall to the adoption that we're seeing on an institutional level and that is we are now centralizing, you know, all of these assets into, you know these monolithic institution, a black rock. I'm not saying it's like overtly evil or something like that, but it doesn't necessarily carry a lot of trust or, you know, good faith in terms of his objectives. There's not necessarily altruistic. So there is that concern, but you know, I think regardless. So it's a double edged sword, but I think regardless it is creating a lot of hype, a lot of interest around Bitcoin itself, and that's that's only good for us because, regardless of who controls whatever amount, it's still decentralized at the end of the day. So it does sit in wallets and things. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean. But then what do you think about the manipulation of wallets? Right, you talk about some of those big institutions buying up all the Bitcoin and all they need to do is dump a whole bunch of it or control all of it to kind of manage, to kind of manipulate the market. That's a bad thing as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the last top being $69,000. I mean, I think was kind of me-me in that sort of sense. So you can't avoid some of these things. Like, there are scammers and pitfalls and I've fallen prey to so many. I lost a lot of Bitcoin at Mt Gox. I mean, I lost the first 120 Bitcoin I ever bought, but it was only worth like 200 bucks at the time. You know what I mean. Just scammers. So there's like a lot of these bad actors that have taken part and will continue to take part one way or another. But I think in the end, because of the technology itself, we can get through that and I think we'll really start to see this next cycle.
Speaker 1:And I'd like to add, as for market manipulation, I recently read an article where it was described how BlackRock was accumulating Bitcoins. Because, like now, at this point, they have thousands of Bitcoins and it doesn't really affect the price Because, like now, price kind of goes up naturally quote, unquote, naturally but like they accumulated thousands of Bitcoins, just buying them from miners, like you know, without entering the markets, like I believe, in short term progression, you know they will the bigger companies will not manipulate the price that much because they obviously have their own interest in, you know, just getting their piece of pie. So I assume that if the buys were going, not in the shadow phase but, you know, not really open, not from the market, I think the sales might go this way as well. So they would probably not manipulate the market and will not manipulate the price that heavily yeah, this isn't like watch trading NFTs or something like that.
Speaker 2:You know, I think it with a one million, with the T market cap even if you, if you dump a hundred billion dollars like who's got a hundred billion dollars to dump, you know, and it's not going to affect things too much like a 10% price decrease from where we're at right now theoretically is not going to be the end of the world for a lot of people. Yeah, we'll see liquidation for those DJ and gamblers out there. I really, really think it's very difficult at that level to manipulate price like that outside of central exchanges. Central exchanges are whole nother Kind of thing because those don't necessarily always follow the same price action as, like, the real market value sometime.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So coming back to Bitcoin halving, do you mind? How does the twenty twenty four halving compared with previous halving events Regarding market maturity and institutional participation? Well, obviously institutional participation. We see it now, but how about the market maturity today?
Speaker 3:It's just thinking about the, the previous halving events. For sure the market is obviously more mature because it's, in a way, go more mainstream. As I mentioned, more jurisdictions are starting to look at it, and that's one of the things we're really looking to hear about at the while summit coming up here in Hong Kong on March twenty six and twenty seven that that is going to be one of the topics of Not only, I guess, stable coins kind of took the spotlight for a little bit, but now it's it's more about this Bitcoin ETF only because the US has pretty much gave it a not give it the green light. And then, once that becomes globalized and think about all the people who maybe don't want to care about understanding wallets and how this information works, they just need to call up the broker and say, hey, you know, hey, you know, here's some Bitcoin, can I get some? And then they just buy it on behalf of the allocation owned by that broker and they're done Right.
Speaker 3:And so we think about the maturity and institutional participation office in much different than previous halving events, and I think for sure I'm interested to see how the movement of the markets will be as we get closer and closer to the halving event and, most importantly, after, I want to see what happens because I mean, you know, it's one of those things, you know everyone's out there to make money, including institutions, and if they can make, you know, big moves and play the big spreads and, you know, somehow work it to their advantage, then I'm curious to see if that's going to happen. Right, so, but for sure, more jurisdictions are going to be looking at the space and then it's obviously a more mature market and I guess next is the ETF and that happens and you know, still waiting on, you know, the court case with Coinbase and SEC. I think that's going to create a lot of, I guess, definition or frameworks of what will happen in the future when it comes to cryptocurrencies or digital assets.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree. I think this next halving is one of the most interesting for me because it's kind of like a coming of age. Before we were kind of just figuring out what do these cycles look like, what are the ups and what are the downs, what does that, the halving event, actually mean? And now we kind of have this sort of anticipation. And I think I mean not not financial advice, but what we've seen with this news is people generally sell the news. So in terms of what I anticipate from like a price standpoint is probably there's going to be a bump before then the halving will happen and people will dump and it'll go down and people be disappointed and they'll buy back in, just like with the ETF right.
Speaker 2:It's exactly the same thing that happened with ETF. There's some initial disappointment, shock right afterwards when it took a little dip, and then we look at where we're at right now. You know, I that's the only thing I would really contribute from. I totally agree with everything that you said.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but if you, if you want to add, so having happens every four years, right? So when it happened in 2017, bitcoin was around what? 2500 after the halving and the one afterwards that happened in 2020. It went as high as 85000, right, so that obviously we've seen it from that 85 go all the way in the bear market down to what it was, or actually, I'm sorry, not 8555, but it went all the way down to, like you know, 1514. I think it's I mean low 13s at one point last year. So the last halving is basically at 55. It was near the high after after having happened. So now this is the fourth halving and for sure, I think people are expecting it to hit like 85000. Some people are predicting 100k and then go on from there.
Speaker 1:Are you guys having?
Speaker 3:any protections.
Speaker 1:You said 85000 and I'm expecting- you know, yeah, I'm expecting like 800. Something close to million. You know just one day it will happen. I believe that one day, bitcoin will hit one million per one BTC. I think this is just a matter.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if you don't watch the markets every day, isn't it amazing? Like you, just I just don't watch it and I see these news on social media oh, it's hit 45, it's at 48, it's gonna hit 50. And then also I see something that says oh, it hit 50, just like just for like an hour or something like that. Then I check and it's at 47. And then I check today and is at 52 and I'm like holy shit, like what's happening is moving so fast. Right? I guess your point, geo. I think it's like it's gonna happen faster than you realize and you probably won't even notice, right? No, just run up.
Speaker 1:So the next question will be this so Kathy would calls Bitcoin to be a new digital goal and now, with the approval of Bitcoin ETFs, along with the politicians surrounding the halving event, how do you think that will it shape the Bitcoins image? For you know, regular people, let's say not Web 3 and through the familiar Web 3, so will Bitcoin become a legitimate investment option in their eyes, rather than this speculative asset? And I have like a short story here to tell my personal story. My father, he was like he was thinking about, you know, traditional type of investing and he was thinking about buying a flat and he was like inviting me, like, oh, do you want to take care of you know, to do all the work around it, and I was like I don't really want to do this and I suggested him to buy Bitcoin.
Speaker 1:It was a year ago and he was really concerned about it. I don't understand anything. This is just a digital coin. I keep it on my wallet and now, after Bitcoin hits 50 K, you know my dad is so happy. Every time I call him he's just smiling, you know, together. And now he considers like Bitcoin to be actually a solid investment. Like after a year being in crypto. He starts to you know, read more to understand the basics of blockchain. So how do you think will the image of Bitcoin, you know, turn to be a legitimate investment?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, my, my grandma knows what what Bitcoin is. Now, I think this is one of the one of the central hurdles that we need to get around fundamentally as, like a community and as people who participate in this ecosystem, is there's a branding and usability component to this that need to shift fundamentally in order to gain more widespread adoption, which I do believe is right around the corner, like I firmly believe that there's more people who are going to adopt Web3 technology than who currently adopt Web3 technology, and I think you know, when it comes to the branding side, talking to two guys who are, who are very well versed in marketing, there is this stigma around that side of things which is oh, it's you know it's scammers or it's NFTs or it's you know it's. So I think there's fundamentally a branding element that needs to shift and that is changing, with or without our help. That's already changing, as we see. You know the SEC taking it seriously and all that. I think the technology issue is something that I'm particularly interested in as a, as a retail investor, and it's who can help solve these adoption gap issues.
Speaker 2:Right, because when I try and bring one of my friends for example, I tell the story a lot. One of my friends is an engineer for both. He's an acoustical engineer, so he designs headphones, and he's a very smart guy. That's. That's the point. And when he's just like I just don't understand. I don't understand Bitcoin, I don't understand crypto. I'm like, well, a wallet. There's a 24 word C phrase and a decentralized, distributed ledger, is it? And he's just like I don't know. I don't know. You know what I mean. So I feel like if, if we can create solutions on the builder side I'm a builder, right so if we can help create solutions that mitigate some of those challenges in adoption and the ETF does that to more traditional investors and then we can really help speed this adoption process up and move it along.
Speaker 2:But those are two big hurdles that will need to address going into this next step and not disagree on that.
Speaker 1:Arthur, what do you think?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think, I think for sure. It's like when any was saying his grandma knows about Bitcoin. I think there's honest truth, right, you could put anything in front of people and they find out that a lot of people are making money for it. It becomes real, right, as reality. So you can argue why is gold, you know, so valuable? It's a precious metal, but if a lot of people don't see it as any value and it's just a piece of metal and it doesn't really matter, you can melt and reshape it, so what? And no one's willing, willing to pay, you know, high money for it, then it just becomes, like you know, worthless and that's always the thing. That's quite interesting that now, when you look at the graphs right, you can.
Speaker 3:So when I first saw my, I heard about Bitcoin. This was around the time I was at a startup and blockchain is very new and people are just saying, oh yeah, chain is going to be the future and this is back in 2009, and so you think about it. You know, 2011, november 2011, bitcoin was at $2.54. You know it's kind of like, and that was before the first having. And so, from then to all the scams, to the ICOs, to all the meme coins and the NFTs and where we are now and it becoming like all the jurisdictions got their eyes on it.
Speaker 3:How are you gonna regulate this piece of thing? It's kind of like, yeah, it is real and it's only because Everyone else in the world who's put their money into it has made it real. If everyone one day says, hey, it's not real anymore, they, they, but I mean you know even the the biggest holders in the wallet if one of these days they said it's nothing to me, it's worth nothing, they sell it all off, I guarantee you there'll be a whole bunch of other people that will buy it up Maybe a fire sale and the value will still hold. I don't know about how you actually reverse it. You think about silver. How do you go back and reverse the value of what silver is, or or a piece of land? I don't know? I think it's gone so far. It's like pretty legitimate now.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, yeah, speaking about mass adoption now you know the biggest news Time to happen around the US. You know the recent fdx case, the current finance case, all of this centralized exchange to cases and we talk about. You know a Bitcoin ETF accepted for mainly by, you know, western brokers and trade centers. Speaking about Asian region what do you think? What Asian countries are leading in crypto adoption now, and maybe you have Any examples of it? Why do you think so?
Speaker 2:Well, I've got a, I've got a couple. My favorite example is is Vietnam, actually, and there's a couple of reasons why I think I work with a lot of people who are based in Vietnam. One of my team members, a senior full stack developers based in Vietnam. They are really tech savvy. They were part of the next wave of Industrialization after China, so a lot of factories move to Vietnam and this spilled over into infrastructure and high-tech, so they're very tech savvy.
Speaker 2:I think Another really a key component is, I believe, the. The median age In Vietnam is 24 years old or something like that, so it's a very young population and I feel like this sort of technology is a lot easier to adopt, being in generation z or zoomers and millennials, than it is for slightly older generations. So I do I do think those two things really play into One of the reasons why Vietnam, at least from my understanding, is the the highest adoption per capita In the world right now, and so that's that's one of my favorite countries. That's that's one that I have a lot of actual on the ground Experience, knowing that everybody I've talked to in Vietnam has at least some holding and a lot of all coins. A lot of MFT is going on over there, a lot of Bitcoin as well, arthur, maybe some examples or ideas from your side.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sorry I was just turning it on off meat, but anyways, yeah, I think for sure I look there's obviously in underdeveloped countries there's a solution of Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies has been to help the unbanked right or to build trust on a currency that is not Tied to the central government, in which they can control the value of where that dollar or that fiat money goes. So I think we'll see more and more use cases over over the years. I mean I myself, I am an ambassador for the HTX exchange. I started doing live streaming for them over two years ago and what I recognize is like one of their strategies was to Get into the underdeveloped countries because there is a demand for Cryptocurrency, mainly from my guess, if you think about it from an investment point of view, being able to invest even like $1 and have it seeing it Triple to $3. That's amazing for someone that's in Kenya, right?
Speaker 3:So a lot of the content Creators that are now coming online are from places like Vietnam and from Thailand and from places around Africa and, like I Mean, there's other the usual suspects as well, coming from the Western countries, but for sure I see a lot of these content creators now building their the voice and market for the space. So I think don't happen over a period of time. The I have to say that, at least my perspective, the reason for getting into it is more about building wealth into something that maybe is very hard for them to get into in their own country, like Investing in real estate on a very small, fractional basis, very difficult investing in stocks Maybe they don't have that much money right. So I think you know these all coins, meme coins that you know are like pennies I think. I think that creates some excitement to some of these people who are in the space. But I believe it'll change over a period of time. For sure.
Speaker 1:Well, there is also an example of Georgia. You know it's not the forest region but, like for the past two years, you know crypto mats all over the street so you can go. You know, buy and sell crypto like anywhere. There are numerous points when you can cash out your stable coins without you know any commission, even like sometimes there is a small commission, like one, two percent, sometimes there is none you can pay with stable coins, even in shops now and it just you know it's such a fast and rapid development and and and it's getting accepted. You know and it feels good. You know, like my relatives From Georgia. They know about. You know not only Bitcoin but stable coins and you know how do they work. Not like you know the technical aspects, but you know the basic principles. They're already aware of it and people using stable coins a lot, which is you know it happened so quickly and now it feels so natural that you know. I'm just waiting when it's being normal for all of the countries around the world.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm excited to see actually digital currency is becoming more prevalent. I mean, when I travel through China, everything is digital, everyone's. You know just something off their app and, yeah, you might be using fiat currency. But the whole point is, you know, this whole use of paper money Is very different and once everyone converts and it uses digital currency, I think it'll be quite amazing. I'm assuming from a different from it, from, I guess, money laundering, anti-terrorist point of view, if you are really tracking the movements from these different wallets, maybe you know that's what I see as a supporting factor for a lot of jurisdictions for these stable coins and how do you believe what are the main challenges for crypto adoption in Asia?
Speaker 1:Oh man there's a lot of regulatory.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of regulatory hurdles that we need to get around. I'm all for regulation. I think China went very hard against it in one direction. They're starting to lighten things up. If you guys have a chance, you should check out the BSN network. It's it's the next generation of Chinese payment systems that are you're gonna start coming around and they also have a system and they also have a Spartan network, which is basically an Ethereum clone that connects Internationally. So China is very interested in it. But there still are a tremendous amount of regulatory hurdles that we need to get around because it is unregulated. I personally would like regulation because then people can be protected, because especially this next generation of adoption.
Speaker 2:You know I used to work for a Berkshire Hathaway company, their shoe holdings company.
Speaker 2:Warren Buffett used to always say that you know it takes a lifetime to build Reputation and only one mistake to ruin it, and I feel like if you come in and you're like I'm gonna check this out and you know you get, you get screwed over because of some. You know you get screwed over by a bad actor and you aren't protected through regulation and there are no repercussions to the bad actors. That's gonna really create some problems for us. But you know, right now it is largely unregulated and it's being regulated by incredibly slow Entities in organizations. They're, they're, you know they're, they're government organizations. They're very bureaucratic and they are not moving as fast as the industry itself. They're not. They're moving much slower than the technology itself. So I think that is a massive hurdle that we need to get around. But I am quite optimistic, fundamentally, that you know we'll get around it, we're, you know it's going to get there, with our help or without our help, with our help or without our help, with regulation, without our regulation.
Speaker 3:So the sooner we start tackling this event, yeah, I see, I see some challenges in a sense of like the rate of adoption. Of course, people in the space wanted to happen very fast and Lots of things were done to put things out there, put coins out there and, you know, ask for forgiveness, forgiveness later, which has been the approach, and I think it'll continue being the approach, because that's the only way that we can innovate. If we always waited for the you know the regulations in different jurisdictions to figure out what to do, you know? Just give it example of the US. Right, look how much time it took for them to finally say Bitcoin Is a commodity or it's not a security, right? And now they're looking at all these different coins. What are they going to do? They're going to go through the, the hundreds and thousands of coins out there and deem it a security or not, and then, when it comes to making it mainstream, so now all the registered agents in the US, they have access to this Bitcoin ETF, but that's it.
Speaker 3:So what's next next? Ethereum, but how about all those other coins? How long is that going to take? Right, and even so, even in Hong Kong themselves, right? So they've got a virtual, virtual asset service provider license, where they got a few licenses, and even in this jurisdiction out here in Hong Kong, they got to go through and, I guess, review a coin to see whether or not it's something they want to support. If it's going to go to the open market, meaning if it goes to high net worth individuals, they actually don't care because they think those people can afford to lose the money. But when it goes to the retail investors, the everyday mom and pop shops, they're worried about these guys buying it. Imagine how long it'll take to get 10, 20 coins to be being able to be sold mainstream.
Speaker 3:Until then, I just don't. I don't know. I guess you've got other means to buy these things, but I don't know. Maybe everything will be thrown into a bucket that it's just a bunch of derivatives that you're, that you can. You can buy For some, like you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think you touched on a really, really important point, and that is the on-ramp and off-ramp, because there are some frameworks currently for us to use. For example, I can go into some stores not many, but some stores and pay with Bitcoin. I need to wait, however long it takes, for that transaction to be validated. So there's some friction there. But if you are currently most of the people that I know personally who invest in all coins Bitcoin whatever they have to use a central exchange or some sort of on-ramp and off-ramp for this to turn into value that they can then spend locally and I think that's where a lot of the regulatory components are going to come into play. That's a really, really big deal. Until we have more actual stores and more utilization that's on the ground like I can pay for rent with it or whatever have you there's going to be some problems there.
Speaker 3:What do you guys think about L2s or L1s becoming so fast, for the speed or the cost for transaction isn't even going to be an issue anymore.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean okay, this is just me just getting technical with some. From my understanding, Solana is one of the fastest L1s out there. I love it it's. The transaction fees are incredibly small, the speed is incredibly fast. The problem is they need to subsidize their validators and they need to shut down the entire network for up to 24 hours in order to catch up with everything, and they've done this a couple of times so far. So there's this golden triangle and it's cost their speed, and then there's decentralization.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So they're, or golden square, whatever it is, but you're constantly going to be sacrificing one of these metrics in order to satisfy the other ones. So that's what I see a lot of the problems with the super fast L1s or the L2s. If you're going to the L2s, you still have to bring that down to an L1 to cash it out. There's a lot of these friction points, and as soon as you get one layer deep or one L1 away from Bitcoin or Ethereum, it requires a certain amount of technical acumen that I feel like a lot of new adopters are not going to possess out of the gate, so they're not going to be able to take advantage of that as immediately as the rest of all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, I guess we'll see how it is. I mean, recently, if you look at, I don't know how much it costs now, but to move on, erc 20 is really super expensive. It's crazy. So I know I've used Binance and BSC, I've used Tron, I mean all these other ones. Solano is very cheap but then, like you said, at some point it needs to go mainstream to support all these different transactions and everyone's using different chains as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have this saying DeFi users they don't care what chain they're on, they just want their money to work harder for them.
Speaker 2:So I think that's fundamentally. What we're trying to achieve here is I want my money to work for me, and that's taking some of the power away from the banks, which is the bank gives you a return on your small interest on your savings or whatever. That's always going to be less than inflation, and they're going out and they're lending that out. So now you can do that. That's like one of the fundamental drivers of DeFi. So I feel like users. There's that generation of users. They don't care if it's Polygon or Ethereum or whatever. I don't care. Is it making me money or is it not? Is it serving this fundamental purpose for me or not? And again, this is like one of those problems that we're going to need to solve collectively.
Speaker 3:One of the things I'm really annoyed of sometimes is if I'm going to move money or, for whatever reason, I need to cash out the money into Fiat, then it's almost like going to a money exchange place and then you're comparing what the different rates are and what the different fees are. It gets really complex. I just wish I could just move it to someone who would just accept the crypto that I have already without having to move it in and out of Fiat, and so I think that in itself is also a challenge. If I can pay my rent to a landlord and they accept crypto, that's great. But what happens if I'm getting paid through my job? Everything is in crypto. Then I got to convert it, lose money, and then basically that's cost of doing business. But I guess for some time, those middlemen the one who's, whether it be exchanges or those guys who are just switching the money around back from crypto to Fiat there's actually a lot of money to be made. A lot of money is actually being made today just for those type of exchanges.
Speaker 1:I have one more question. How do you think do some cultural attitudes, cultural features of different regions somehow affect the Web3 adoption, the crypto adoption, in certain regions? Is there any behavioral pattern that would rather affect the acceptance of blockchain or not? And if you think there are some like this, especially in the Asian region, what are they?
Speaker 2:I think any country that has a history of inflation, where they go to the supermarket and their local currency is not worth what it was before, or there's frozen assets Randomly, or there's geopolitical issues. I think all of those are all positive in that direction. I think the other side to that is the government perspective on it, and if we look up in China, there is very strict regulations against how people can invest their money. I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm half Chinese.
Speaker 2:I'm based in Hong Kong. I love going up to China, but they stopped miners up there. You're not allowed to own cryptocurrencies up there, and one of the reasons there is the government perspective on should you have access to this sort of technology. There's two sides to it. They're trying to protect their people, or maybe they're trying to protect the inflows and outflows of capital in China, because China experienced a massive boom and their economies just exploded over the last 30 years and slowing down a little bit. Now they're trying to keep reins on this thing that had a lot of intense growth over the last couple of years as well. There's two sides to that, really.
Speaker 3:I thought from the China basis, I was understanding that they don't allow the trading or selling with exchanges or mining Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies, but if you as a citizen, you can own it. So many people use VPNs and whatnot and they go ahead and trade it, so that's not against the law to own it or to trade or to, I guess, use care to peer. But I think, when it comes to commercialization from the big exchanges and whatnot, I think I mean that's what I heard that a large portion of trading volume actually comes from Asia, especially China. But the one thing I was just talking to someone in Singapore today that I met and owns our own company, owns this online shop was talking about whether or not I asked her you can accept a couple of currencies through your platform and she's like no, are you into that stuff? I'm like what do you mean? Yeah, I have such stuff I could lie. And she goes oh my gosh, there's so many scams between all my friends and we just tell each other stay away from crypto because you can get ripped off or you lose your money.
Speaker 3:So I think there's still a stigma out there. It is very true, and I don't know what the reports are. But I know I've seen many things in last year that there's a lot of increase in scams happening just all across the board, whether or not it be with crypto or not, but it happens and people are losing money and people are getting stuff stolen from the wallet. Hacks are still happening.
Speaker 3:So that in itself, that narrative quite broadly it goes beyond just based on their ethnicity or different countries, but there's a narrative. It's still a scam and people in my family are not really into it. Oh, you're still doing that crypto thing. And then, but I have to say some of them have said but I do own some, but it's usually like Bitcoin or Ethereum and that's it Right. Oh, I bought some because I'm curious. I'm kind of curious, and then they're happy too because it also went up. So I think for the most part, people are happy to be partake, but are they really into it? I think there's still a lot of stigma around it, regardless of the whole country.
Speaker 2:And just to contribute to that sort of in a lateral perspective is we've been talking about specifically Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, but underneath this is blockchain technology and there's already a tremendous amount of blockchain technology adoption.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure if you guys are aware, but T-Mobile settles their international roaming charges on chain.
Speaker 2:There's non-cryptocentric development languages like Dammel, which is part of digital assets that don't allow for actual tokens to be made.
Speaker 2:So it's the fundamental purpose of smart contracts, things like DAOs. There's all this other really interesting technology that I think can add a lot of fundamental value as well. So there's this other aspect of cryptocurrency adoption, which is sort of laterally supported by blockchain technology itself, and I think that's a really important thing to look at as well, as we're getting institutional adoption from ETFs and things like that. But we're also getting institutional adoptions with banks and things looking like hey, I can solve this contract signing issue that normally would take one or two days between a couple of different parties. If I put that on a smart contract, it's not as sexy as Board APYOT Club or the YOT parties and things that they throw, but if you extrapolate that at the bank level, across however many workers, across however many years, we're starting to contribute a lot of value to internal processes for these big institutions and I think that's going to help continue to push the broader adoption of currencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because one of the most common questions in the area is OK, I understand why to buy the Apple stock, because I understand that my stock share represents some part of the company of Apple. But what does Bitcoin represent? And my answer on it is always blockchain technology. So it doesn't necessarily connect it because blockchain goes basically its own separate way and Bitcoin is Bitcoin. But still, bitcoin is the number one representation of what blockchain technology is and what it can bring to the table in different areas in law, in logistics, basically in everything, and this is probably the future, because so far, this is the best way to deal with things and to make some processes transparent. It's accessible from different parties.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, and I think there's a lot more consolidation to happen.
Speaker 3:Blockchain also represents decentralization, so that means a lot of knowledge and technical expertise then coming together to actually produce what will become eventually the infrastructure for the whole world to use. So in the news, if you guys saw, ledger and Coinbase are partnering up and they want to create a higher working or better use of wallet security on the platform. So when you've got the major players coming together eventually, then you'll see more and more confidence actually from a build perspective, and then when that happens, I think naturally what happens is the use of blockchain continues to grow as well, because more and more players are in the space and more of the. Even when you look at ZK or Zerl Knowledge protocol, a lot of those guys are still waiting on the sidelines producing whatever they do to create a more security and a decentralized world in the future. So, yeah, it just takes some time. It goes from people hey, let me make my money, I want to make my millions, first for my project, and then they start to give back. So I think it's a natural cycle for technology.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I completely agree with you and Andy. Actually, you mentioned that you're both hands for regulations and crypto, and this is some kind of a Shakespeare question to be or not to be. Don't you think that these regulations and crypto basically will break the fundamentals of what we call decentralization? Because, yes, we're scared of scams, yes, we're scared of bad guys and crypto, and it happens all over the place and will these regulations make the web-through space just another banking, but just digital one, where big players will just, oh, we got you investing this DeFi protocol because we know that this is the most secure one and this is going to be banking, but don't pull it on. But I know that you.
Speaker 2:That's a really good question, I think. At its core, though, you know, having regulation does not mean you will not have decentralization. Having regulation means, to me at least and who am I? Just some guy, right? Having regulation to me means that People who are new, who don't have the same risk tolerance that a lot of us have or the technical know-how that a lot of us have, can go to these Sanctions. Institutions that might not be at the same level of decentralization. That die hard. You know, crypto Enthusiasts like us are Are really into like I don't really like to keep things on central exchanges. I've been freaking out about Binance since 2018. I was I was really early freaking out about people.
Speaker 3:I was like.
Speaker 2:I'm out. You know deep by somewhere.
Speaker 1:I was like everything's gone no way and it took a couple of years.
Speaker 2:But I, you know and that's not to knock finance, finance has done a fantastic job. They created a really wonderful platform. Everything that they've done, the user experience, everything about that is they've set some standards there. Them and them and Coinbase are some of my favorite platform From a usability standpoint.
Speaker 2:But you know, I think that you'll have, you know, two or more directions that you can go in. It's like, hey, my risk tolerance is very low, I just want to get a little bit of exposure. Okay, go through this highly regulated, protected route. And then you have the Cowboys which is behind a VPN, on my Phantom, on my Meta mask. You know staking and getting a token that I staked and using that for something else. That gives me something else that I use for. You know what I mean and you can go out there and do that.
Speaker 2:And I think you know regulation just provides this alternative Avenue for especially new users to come on, and that's that's who I am most concerned for in this. Next, you know, having a bet to kind of tie things together is I want the new users to have a really great experience, because I've had a lot of awful experiences. I there's not enough time for me to tell you how many times that I've had awful experiences and I've been in the space for for 14 years now, you know. So I want new users who are coming in to have a soft, easy to understand and landing. And then when they get, then when they've whetted their appetite, they're like okay, let's understand what this ledger is, then they can start moving into these other areas and discovering all the other advantages, like dows or NFTs is like tickets, or sell sovereign identity. All these other really interesting, vibrant sort of sub genres of of blockchain and cryptocurrency can offer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great point to look at the regulations. Thank you, yeah, and the. Actually, you know, as for regulation, as for mass adoption, I and my team we see that. You know, the education and web three space becomes a new trend. You know, there are more and more educative platforms, educative YouTube channels. You know, just explaining and explaining All the aspects of crypto. Actually, have you tried any of the educational courses? Like you know, crypto, crypto related ones.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I've tried a bunch of them.
Speaker 2:I think from my experience, my narrow sort of you know maybe dozen, maybe ten different education platforms, even using like crypt was it crypto zombies? Whereas like first learning how to write Ethereum, smart contracts. I think there it's a good start, but it still is quite complicated and it's just assuming that people understand what a lot of these acronyms are. So I think it needs to not be dumbed down, but simplified even more and starting from more you know, first principles of what we're trying to do here, what we're trying to accomplish, and I also think that builders Also have a responsibility to start building familiar environments, because I've seen the MetaMask Interface duplicated a thousand different ways across a thousand different platforms, or the uniswap interface, and it makes a lot of assumptions about you as a user and what your understanding is and what your risk-talk is. So I think builders also, on top of the education, need to build these environments and and you X UI essentially and a lot of circumstances that are very familiar that like Can't hold your hand or adapt to know your, your skill, well.
Speaker 3:I think. I think it would go back to the challenges we're talking about. It is usability still until this day For any of this platform, and I think when you talk about education, you know the education. There's some good stuff out there, some of them prior outdated, but I think the most important thing is for the user themselves to understand what is it that they're looking to Learn and what's going to be valuable for them.
Speaker 3:Obviously, if you're in the space and you want to get more technical, well, you, you go a different route. But if you're just trying to understand what all the fuss is about, you, you know. You don't need to know all the lingo, right? Solving identity you people really care about. That's not what they want to hear. They want to hear who will have a digital ID when you don't have to XYZ, right, like when the cook, when a bank calls me what's your birthday, what's your address, what's your wife's a mania name, what is your grandmother's birthday, right, I mean, if you explain to them, you don't have to do that anymore, this digital identity, you have to do one thing oh, oh, that's it, and I don't need to divulge any more information about myself, and it'll be more safe that this is the education people need to know broadly on the mainstream. But then for those people who are more curious and how the technology works, then there's a difference. I think that's the difference, like when you, when we say there needs to be more education, well, does there need to be, and what type it really needs to focus on audience and to your point, and he's like many people have built a platform with a lot of assumptions, oh, people don't know, need to know about blockchain. So they start explaining block blockchain, having like you did, I like you started, and then for a normal, normal guy that, go, well, what's mining? But a mining is a Minecraft. What is this Like? People just don't know.
Speaker 3:I was talking to a parent of a child who's I think it's about like 15, and I guess the. This guy is really against web 3 gaming because this web gaming 3 sucks right. It's like what the heck? I don't know what the big big deal is right, and they totally against it and totally against the metaverse. And then this is like the, the new generation, and this is what they're seeing from all the stuff that's happening out there that a lot of people are getting excited about, but they themselves. They don't like it, right there. They like the console games, right. They like computer games still they. They like maybe mobile games even better than the web 3 games.
Speaker 3:Web 3 games is just, you know, you can argue with this too early on, but they don't see what the fuss is. So I think, going back to user experience and really understanding the audience themselves and Really putting a lot more focus on that, but I guess it's been really hard because most people, if you look at projects, they need money to build what they need to build and there's. There's not enough time to wait to commercialize it, to make money to put back into the company. So they do all the stuff, they, they shill for their project. I'm gonna do this token generation event. They raise however they need to raise, because it's just much easier than pitching to a hundred VCs, right, and then they get the money and they may build or they may not build. So I guess, like that's, regardless of where you are in technology or any startup, that's kind of the the same cat mouse game, right? So yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah and Arthur, you mentioned, you know, the future of digital identity projects. Are there any blockchain based digital identity projects in Asia, and what challenges are they addressing now?
Speaker 3:Well, I don't follow too closely. I do know that there are people looking into that project. I actually, I think, as far as like what I do, I do a lot of interviews through podcast. I've I've met a lot of people in the zero ZKP or zero-knowledge proof area and it's tied to digital identity in some format that they try to create. Well, I feel like it's still early days, I don't know. Any of you've got different experience, I'm sure yeah, there's.
Speaker 2:There's quite a few projects, especially in in China, that they're trying to implement. For those users who have not experienced China there. They're an entirely digital, a tightly digital ecosystem right now, so it makes a tremendous amount of sense to have digital identity. I brought out cash. I was in China two weeks ago in Hongzhou, and I brought out cash and the guy I was with just just because I wasn't sure if Oli pay would work you know, going for my Hong Kong Oli pay and he's just like whoa, I have not seen cash in years. And so when you go full digital like that which we are starting to go, I mean I think Hong Kong is an anomaly. People love having cash here and there's no cap control so you can walk around with like a couple million dollars and it's like that's totally fine. But I think most of the world is going digital. If you go to the US, everyone's paying with the card. You know there's a lot of this direction that we're going into, and part of how we're supposed to protect ourselves with this is, you know, we have to FA. We have all these verification tools that we use on a regular basis that are a little bit cumbersome. So you know, I think digital identity starts removing those stuff.
Speaker 2:I know world coin, you know, with Samu and company, is quite popular, but I have my, my hesitation about that, you know, I can't. I can't help but think, you know, it's just like another one of these multi billionaires who are in control of a tremendous amount of our data. But yeah, that's unfortunately the majority of these self-sovereign identity projects that I've seen are based around Government orientation. That being said, one cool project and they're good friends of mine they're called work X. They actually had a TG not too long ago. They're they're a Dutch company. They're basically it's similar to like an on-chain LinkedIn Fent, fantastic guide, fantastic team. They're working to try and solve that problem in their own unique way to validate your work, history and things like that. I highly recommend checking those guys out if you get a chance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely will, and actually, you know. As for my experience, I see more and more like web three, related digital identity. You know platforms like the recent experience was get coin passport, which Actually implements the KYC procedure, but it, you know mostly you know takes you to your you know web three actions and your wallet. Like wallet in this case is a representation of yourself or what you are interested in and where you contribute and what, what do you support, and a lot of marketing tools like galks platform. They added their you know galks ID where you basically go through KYC procedure and you know, being KYC, they allow you to use many tools much more than you do without this identification number. So, in this way or another, most of the projects you know come to this idea and it surprises me in sort of way, because it doesn't necessarily connect it to the government. You know identity, but also just you know your crypto identity.
Speaker 3:Alright, go back to the world world coin. There was something that happened what was this thing? Last month, and so there was an investigation into some of the world coin premises because it was being reported that they were mishandling the biometric data of people coming in. I was, you know. It was like okay, well, I mean that that's great, that's one's checking into that, but I haven't seen any results, and that was like the end of January. So I'm very, very curious because you know, however you look at a world coin, you're still centralizing the identity, right, I mean, and that's yeah, that's, I don't know. That doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 2:Well, you're touching on a really, really key point to this entire thing, and that is we're talking about Web 3 and cryptocurrency and all that, but the majority of all Web 3 tech that we interface with is Web 2. Right, where are you hosting? Where are you hosting your Web stuff?
Speaker 1:You know, like what?
Speaker 2:what service provider are you using to connect to it? So there's a lot of these other non. There's these Web 2 infrastructure that we're all using on top of it. So even the most purest Web 3 users right now are built upon a tremendous amount of Web 2. And there are some infrastructure projects that are coming out to try and mitigate those issues, like IPFS. And another great project you guys should check out is Fort O-R-T. They're a layer of.5 solutions, so they're providing compute resources, static hosting, things like that, and they've got an AI component to it as well. But you know these are still problems that we need to address. Which is an infrastructure layer to all of this, because the majority of Web 3 is unfortunately still Web 2. There's only one small component to Web 3 that's truly purely Web 3.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is actually a whole new aspect, a whole new area to develop to, because now even our conversation now is on Twitter. It's just, you know, social media it's not like centralized in sort of way. Yeah, elon Musk tried to do something like this, but basically, you know, it's just a centralized social media platform.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's okay. I think that's okay Having a Web 2.5 sort of iteration again to bring on these new users. If you throw people right into the deep end of Web 3, I think that you're going to get too much friction for the mass adoption that we're looking for collectively. So you know, I'm not totally against using Web 2 technology to satisfy some of these gaps while we come up with better, more efficient Web 3 solution.
Speaker 3:Isn't it called 2.5?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Web 2.5, yeah.
Speaker 3:It's called 2.5 in between.
Speaker 1:Then if it turns more to Web 3, it might be, you know 2.7. If it's more Web 2, it might be 2.2,. You know 2.25, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then next year it's going to be, Web 4.
Speaker 3:Well, not with the Web 3. I was having this discussion with someone who was asking me what is Web 3? And it actually is a common question and it's really hard to summarize sometimes, because I don't want to go into so much detail technically, what it really means. But I just thought it's the next generation of the internet for the users. Like you know, take back control. I'm trying to come up with something new, but in reality, what people recognize is, even today, I don't know if they really identify Web 2 as like social media, user generated content, that type of stuff. I don't think that's what they see. They just see it evolving. So I think it's really interesting that when you're in the space, we can you know, we can talk Web 3. But what does it really mean to them, to the masses? They just hear either blockchain, they hear AI, they hear crypto, they hear scams.
Speaker 3:This is what they hear around Web 3, right yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I think the answer that I found to be one of the most elegant for me is Web 1 was read we come onto the internet and we read. Web 2 is read and write. So we start having social media. And then Web 3 is now we own. So we own these things, we own the content that we put out, and I think that's a really, really powerful tool. We own, but it's not just owning the coins or owning your data. You're also owning the liability, right. You're also owning the responsibility to understand this technology, because if you give your keys away, you lose all your money, right. So there's a double-edged sword there, but at least to me, it's read, write and own.
Speaker 3:So do you believe then there's a demand for wanting to own? Are they trying to create a demand such as oh, advertising companies will ask you for your permission to use your data, but they'll pay you right? That sounds exciting, but essentially you're giving your rights away in a way that's maybe not really aligned with owning your own data.
Speaker 2:I mean. To me it's like Facebook's been making money off my data for years. And now it's like I get to reap whatever financial benefits are associated with that all the marketing. They're one of the biggest marketing companies in the world and they don't make any of their own ads right.
Speaker 2:It's a really interesting time we're in, but a sort of physical analogy to that is kind of like Airbnb right, you own the place and now you can rent it out. So it's like a digital manifestation of some of these trends that we've seen in the physical realm, and it's not for everybody. Honestly, I think the majority of token projects and Art you and me have talked about this before, but I think the majority of token projects are not going to be very successful because they're not actually there to solve real-world problems. But there are ones out there that are associated with this ownership, that are going to provide a tremendous amount of value, that are going to do things better, faster, more secure, cheaper, whatever have you that are going to be the champions here at the end of the day.
Speaker 3:I guess is it the same steps when it comes to startups? Wasn't it something like one out of ten startups will fail, one out of ten Webview projects will fail, or was it worse than that? Is it like half of it?
Speaker 2:I think it's 90% will not succeed and a lot of that it may be even more. And that's the same in the startup world. The startup world like if we look at California, if you take California out of the United States and treat it as its own sovereign nation, it's like the ninth largest economy in the world and California, at least up until recently, until COVID, was 80% small businesses. So the ninth largest economy in the world is 80% small businesses, but 90% of small businesses, or 80% I forgot what the actual number is a significant percentage, over 70%, fail within the first year.
Speaker 2:So, it's like that small sliver that make it through this culling are responsible for a tremendous amount of value, so I guess I would not recommend being a builder to anybody If someone was like hey, should I be an entrepreneur, I'd be like no, this is like my 10th startup.
Speaker 2:It'll break your heart, guys. But seriously, it is a heartbreaking experience. But I think that there is something here to the ones that make it through, and I think that if people are cautious and don't overstep their risk tolerances, you can derive some value from it and you can help solve problems in your day-to-day life that exist currently and are not able to be solved by Web 2 solutions.
Speaker 1:All right, oh sorry, Arthur.
Speaker 3:No, no, I'm just saying so. I think I was working on the agenda for the WAL summit and it's really interesting because I was wondering. We're talking about adoption into crypto and the new world. So when I was asking, when I was researching the narratives out there in Web 3, so what is Web 3? And we talk about all these new terms. So there's AI, of course. That's one of the biggest ones and I don't know if you guys buy stocks, but if you look at micro computing or all these ones that make the chips, they're going through the roof. The stock prices are crazy. Deepin BRC404, brc20, rwa's, we wore assets, l1s and restaking. These are the ones that I saw that were most popular, which I'm sure a lot of people if you're not in a space, you're like what the heck is this stuff, but we won't go into that. Do you guys have any comments on what's trending this year? What do you think will pop?
Speaker 1:Well, actually, if we talk about mass adoption, I still think that GameFi sector is one of the pioneers of mass adopting because, even though Web 3 games are not that exciting as traditional ones, they are still a decent market share of Web 3 gaming and this is one of the easiest ways for a person to adopt Web 3. Like, I'm a gamer, but now I can play and get a couple dollars for my game, which is awesome, which is simply amazing. Wow, I get paid for playing games. That is my dream as a child. I think that GameFi narrative is going to be bigger and bigger over the years.
Speaker 1:Obviously, the AI narrative actually doesn't necessarily connect Web 3 segment and AI segment. They go parallel ways. Yes, they connect at some points, but not necessarily. But still, for people who are not familiar with Web 3, artificial intelligence and blockchain is some difficult fields to understand and they kind of go together. And as for blockchains you mentioned, like RSE 404 or BRC 20. The technology is great, the idea behind it is great, but I still think this is kind of like a short-term trend At this moment. I see them like this yes, they bring some value to the table, but still, a couple of years ago, we were talking about completely different narratives, completely different blockchains. Some of them are forgotten, some of them are deep in the ocean. This is my point.
Speaker 2:I agree. I think I'm not really into GameFi. I think that games need to be good first, and then a blockchain project second, Like if CSGO put all of their skins and things which were worth a tremendous amount of money on chain, or Diablo 4, I think we're on Diablo 4 now put all of their tradable items on chain. That's really interesting to me. The majority of games that I've seen and played myself as a fellow gamer have not been fun enough for me to really believe in that. That being said, every VC I've talked to in the last couple of months have been like we're still on the GameFi track. So I think again not financial advice, I'm not a financial advisor, but I do think that there's a lot of gas in that tank. I think that there's a long way for GameFi to go. People love playing games. People love being rewarded for it.
Speaker 2:The Philippines Was it like Star Atlas or one of those? I forgot which one it was, but it provided a great amount of value to those people. So I think GameFi is interesting. I think there is some opportunity there, but we'll see how that all plays out. There are still some of these areas that I think if we look at the fundamental purpose of them. There seems to be a disconnect with the value that is creating. I'd love to see financials for some of these companies that are coming out. It's just like are you making money? Is this generating revenue or did you create a token? You have a bunch of it and you're creating staking, unlock, reward fees for people, and that's what's driving all of this user adoption. So that's something that I'm wary of.
Speaker 1:Arthur, what do you think?
Speaker 3:Sorry, I was good to not mute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think, look, there's a lot of narratives and when I did the research, it's mainly because I was talking to this one VC, or actually a few VC's, because I'm looking to understand where they're looking at and I think even themselves are a little bit confused of where it's going to go, and they're always interested in new narratives. And I think the point I'd like to make is usually these VC's are looking for the next trend, so where can they make the money and it's not long-term in this space. In Web3, they're hoping to have a fast exit and stuff. So they're trying to figure out what that is and whether or not it will be sticky enough. So it's really interesting to talk to someone at that level as investor, whereas where the focus on the builders will be. So I think that's quite interesting. Denver is coming up, so it'll be interesting to see what type of projects will be coming up at that event. Yeah, and hopefully I'll get some more intel from the people coming to the WALF summit in March to see what people are working on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm always excited about some ITS conferences to see what's up, because basically, yeah, I do my own research. I do it every day, but still, at the end of the day, it's really hard to keep on track with everything by just using Twitter, and sometimes visiting summit is just you enjoy the atmosphere, so many people around that you don't need to explain what Web3 is to. Everyone is crypto-native, everyone is sharing ideas. It's always a pleasure for me to be on such conferences, Right?
Speaker 2:right. One more thing I forgot to say is the mobile tech stack that Solana came out with. I left Solana I built a DeFi project on there years ago but I think going mobile first is a really important thing because we'll see a lot of mobile adoption. Most internet users are mobile first, so starting to have these applications and systems that are built for that environment is incredibly important. So I see a lot of that right around the corner too.
Speaker 1:Well, it's actually pretty easy to adopt crypto for Google Play, but it's still. There are a lot of issues with implementing any crypto-related app to App Store. It's just so many regulations, I think they just my personal opinion is they're looking for way how they can monetize it, because if you use crypto in their app, they don't get the piece of cake. So they're just thinking how can they get it, and as soon as they figure it out, the doors will be open and they will be welcoming all the crypto projects, of course.
Speaker 2:It's like the Epic Games lawsuit, right, they're trying to get in between Epic Games Store Apple was and Epic Games. Did they win? I don't remember, but I remember it was like a landmark case. So hopefully there's these favorable things that start leaning in our direction to allow that adoption on the Apple side, I agree.
Speaker 1:So just let me share my impressions. What a wonderful conversation we have. There is a story about Michael Jordan all of his opponents. When they were speaking about him, they were saying that his fundamentals are super strong, and I really like that. Our fundamentals today, our first AMA session in Twitter space went to really strong fundamentals, such as Bitcoin, its total supply, how many principles, what blockchain is. This is just an amazing basis for, I hope, our future conversation, and it was a great pleasure for me to be here today and for all of our listeners. Thank you very much. Please check out Web3 platform by Andy, and there is going to be a wall summit at March 26, 27 in Hong Kong. Before we end this, maybe you have some final words and, andy, this is my personal question to you Can you please elaborate a little bit on what you're working on and what are the ideas behind your project you work on now?
Speaker 2:Awesome, I almost forgot to plug what I'm working on. So at Web3 Research, we're trying to solve a lot of the problems that we discussed today, namely the onboarding of new users. So we're using AI to help guide users into a Web3 experience. So we're using artificial intelligence, large language models, the aggregation of data, because there's a tremendous back to the education thing. There's more data than we need out there. There's tons of social media posts, gurus, everybody's telling you all these different things, and I feel like AI does a really great job of distilling this, and so we've built a custom suite of AI models. We're not it's not a GPT API call. We're building things from the ground up to help onboard users into the Web3 space, and our first thing is going to be an influencer report, where you can go on Twitter or various social media publication, pop in a username and it'll come back with a report on how good or bad that user is at predicting prices yeah.
Speaker 2:And eventually you'll be able to trade off of that as well. So, yeah, that's like the first thing, but there's a lot of basically think of it as an on-chain Web3 AI concierge for you. So, but yeah, thank you so much for having me. This has been a great conversation. Arthur, great to see you again. We watched the Super Bowl together the other day out here in Hong Kong Brighten early at like seven in the morning. But, gio, thank you so much, it was a pleasure to meet you and great to be here, and thanks to everybody in the audience for tuning in today as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is a pleasure for me too. It's just such an amazing conversation we have today. And as for a product, I really want to be an alpha tester checking out the Twitter reliability of Influencer this is what I go through every day. This is a headache, you know. I tell you, and yeah, I'm super excited Now I'm just, you know, both hands up for Web3. Ie Web3, you know just. And Arthur, maybe a couple words about the upcoming Wolf Summit event. What do you expect there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure, for sure. So, I think, the Wolf Summit I don't know if anyone on this call or anyone knows of any other Web3 or startup that are wanting to pitch they do have a pitch competition at the Wolf Summit, based in Hong Kong, and there'll be, you know, in front of around 100 plus investors, angel, all different levels of investors. But, yeah, so, anyone interested in joining that is, there's tickets for corporates, there's discounted tickets for corporates, there's students, you know they can come for free, and we continue looking for more speakers and more sponsors to join the event and I'm sure there's going to be a lot of side events as well. But just go to wildsummitnet and then you can find more information there. But, you know, happy to be here, gio, I think you know we can definitely create some more, better conversations or not better, but more conversations overall, because this space is evolving so fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. You know, again, it's a great pleasure to be here Wonderful conversation and really important topics we cover. I think, you know, conversation like this help, you know, to make at least one small step, but a step forward, towards mass adoption. You know, discussing these things, making people aware of what's going on in crypto space, even if they're, you know, crypto natives, it's always a great thing to do. So, yeah, guys, thank you Once again. Definitely looking at Aweb 300% and packing my suitcase to next World Summit. And yeah, I'd like to mention here that our current Twitter space is just, you know, a first, a session of a series of events where we will invite other speakers and we will cover other different topics around crypto and Web3. Thank you, guys. Once again, it was a great pleasure.