Navigating property transactions shouldn't keep you up at night with Rebecca Robinson

Did you know that something as simple as using different pens when signing your will could invalidate the entire document? Or that until recently, property settlements required physical meetings where a single incorrect cheque could derail an entire house purchase?

Rebecca Robinson, Principal Solicitor at Coast and Country Legal, takes us behind the curtain of property law and estate planning in this enlightening conversation. From her humble beginnings at KFC to becoming the owner of her own legal practice, Rebecca's journey exemplifies how passion and perseverance can transform career aspirations into reality.

The conversation explores the fascinating evolution of property settlements from paper-based chaos to streamlined electronic processes. Rebecca explains how modern systems have revolutionized transactions while reducing errors and delays that once left removal trucks stranded on driveways. She clarifies common misconceptions about the roles of solicitors versus conveyancers in Queensland, offering crucial insights for anyone navigating property transactions.

Perhaps most valuable is Rebecca's candid discussion about estate planning – that perpetual task we all know we should complete but continually postpone. She emphasizes how proper preparation can prevent significant delays, complications, and expenses for loved ones, while offering practical advice about wills and enduring powers of attorney.

What sets this episode apart is Rebecca's obvious dedication to client education. In an era where electronic platforms have accelerated transaction timeframes and increased pressure on buyers and sellers, having knowledgeable legal guidance isn't just helpful – it's essential.

Whether you're considering buying or selling property, planning your estate, or simply curious about the legal mechanics behind life's biggest transactions, this episode offers invaluable insights from someone who's mastered every step of the process. Ready to ensure your legal affairs are in order? This conversation is your first step.

Transcript

Introducing Rebecca Robinson

Amy Bennett 0:02

Welcome to Beyond the Signboard, where you get the opportunity to learn all there is to know about your real estate journey from professionals who are passionate about property. I'm Amy Bennett, your host, and I look forward to providing you with education, inspiration and a behind-the-scenes look at the world of real estate. Hi everyone, I am Amy Bennett, delighted to be joined today by Rebecca Robinson, who is the Principal Solicitor at Coast and Country Legal. Welcome back.

Rebecca Robinson 0:37

Thank you, thanks for having me.

Amy Bennett 0:39

Absolutely my pleasure. I'm so excited for us to catch up. We've had a little catch up off air about what we're going to chat through, and it's funny, isn't it? In life, you realise, gosh, we're all, you know, we all journey through the same life and commonalities, and everything is just amazing.

Rebecca Robinson 0:55

Absolutely.

Amy Bennett 0:56

Here at our office in Caloundra. We are not far from where you started your first career.

Rebecca Robinson 1:01

Yes, yes, I did. I started on reception at Tim Williams Property Lawyers in Caloundra. That was a long time ago now. And it's moved from there.

Amy Bennett 1:13

Yeah, amazing, and before that, KFC.

Rebecca Robinson 1:15

KFC. Yes, just basically next door.

Amy Bennett 1:18

Literally tell us. I mean, it's just interesting, isn't it? I mean, you know, I hear so much about you know, like fast food and things like that, like that McDonald's is such a good training ground. What was a shift at KFC like in Calandra it?

Rebecca Robinson 1:31

was always busy. Yes, always very busy. Always on your toes. Yes, didn't stop. It didn't matter whether you were on front counter. Restaurant tidy up, drive-through stocking it. Restaurant tidy up, drive through, stocking it was always on the go Busy.

Amy Bennett 1:48

And am I right in saying I never knew this for so long that the chickens actually cooked there?

Rebecca Robinson 1:50

Yes, yeah, I had no idea of that, isn't it funny. Yes, still don't know what the secret herbs and spices are, though hey, I should have thought to ask that.

Career Journey from KFC to Law

Amy Bennett 1:59

It's funny, isn't it? I was chatting to someone previously in the podcast that was from Domino's and we were just chatting about you know, like the behind the scenes. I love you know, learning about that and how businesses work wonderful. Well, look a long way from KFC to where you are now as the owner of Coast and Country Legal. Love you to share your journey. Obviously it's a career that you've been really passionate about, but just let us know how you got to where you are now.

Rebecca Robinson 2:26

Yeah. So, as I said, starting as a receptionist for Tim Williams, I moved through the office there into conveyancing. I found that I had a real keen interest in that sphere, yes, so I continued on with that and then became the head of the conveyancing department for the firm and overseeing the other girls in their day-to-day transactions. I then had my children Beautiful Three children. Three children, yes, yes, yep. So it did put my study as a lawyer on hold. Yes, but when I was able to do that, I was working part-time, had moved from the coast at that point in time, working and studying to finally get my law degree. Well done, it's a big undertaking, right, it was a big undertaking and you know, there were some times during that period of my life where I'm like what am I doing? I can't do this anymore. But looking back now I've been able to achieve what I set out to do and exceed Amazing. So it's been really a great journey and I'm so proud of myself for achieving that.

Amy Bennett 3:41

Oh, absolutely incredible. I mean, look how many years was that sort of process.

Rebecca Robinson 3:47

So it was four and a half years. It took me because I was studying externally, so I was able to do the three different semesters. So basically, I studied over Christmas each year to condense it down Well done, get it done as quickly as I could, and then joined Tim's team yet again.

Rebecca Robinson 4:05

When I moved back to the sunny coast, tim's like come back and work for me. So I did. Fortunately, he opened a position for me there. Shortly after that he decided that he was going to look at retiring and offered for me to buy the practice. So I acquired. Tim Williams Property Lawyers set up and we've now rebranded to Coast and Country.

Building Coast and Country Legal

Amy Bennett 4:28

Legal Amazing. You've got a beautiful office in Maroochydore, yes, which is amazing. So what a journey just within the industry to be able to go from that and obviously it was a testament to you that Tim asked you back but also as the custodian of the business as well, which is amazing. So tell us about your business and what it offers clients.

Rebecca Robinson 4:50

Yeah, so we look after all aspects of property law and estate laws. So things from buying a residential property through to property subdivision If there's property being transferred between families or superannuation anything to do with property.

Amy Bennett 5:09

That's your real and has that always been your nation interest? Yes, yeah amazing Yep.

Rebecca Robinson 5:15

And then that sits alongside estate law, which is another one of my passions, so it's estate planning. So your wills, power of attorney documents, and then, when somebody passes away being able to finalise the estate and the assets of the estate for the family.

Amy Bennett 5:31

It's a huge component and I know that we've spoken about that a lot. We've had the pleasure to meet, actually through your BNI networking group, which you're a really active member of, and I know that's something that you're really passionate about. You volunteered your time to educate beautiful clients at my events when we have a downsizing seminar, and just the importance of having these documents in place, reviewing them and what's available. What's, I guess, the split between property and estates within your business.

Rebecca Robinson 6:03

Yep. So I guess the way they cross over there would be in the event that somebody is needing to go into aged care and they're unable to sign documents on their own anymore, so they have an attorney, so sometimes a family member it doesn't necessarily have to be that is able to make those decisions, sign the documents and help them into that transition of their life.

Amy Bennett 6:32

and then be able to sell the home and things like that as well. It's a huge process, isn't it as well? And I know that's something that we've really bonded over, because that is such a you know, I guess a niche part of what I do and helping people navigate that and also it is really overwhelming, isn't it as well, for people to navigate you know, so many big changes all at once. You have an amazing team. I'd love you to share a little bit about them.

Rebecca Robinson 6:54

Yeah, yep, so we're a team of four, so myself and my wonderful assistants, so we have reception. Kai, he's the friendly face that you see he sure is.

Amy Bennett 7:04

Yes, when you see he sure is.

Rebecca Robinson 7:06

When you first contact us, he's wonderful. He always goes above and beyond to help make sure everyone's comfortable and understands what's going on and have everything that they need for us to be able to do the smooth transaction for them. Sam is our conveyancing paralegal, so she looks after all the day-to-day running of matters. Yes, absolutely. She's very diligent, making sure that everything is in place, that there's no delays, that the banks are ready to go, that conditions are met when they need to be and that sort of thing. And then Michelle, she works in the background, busily works in the background doing all our processing stuff, all our letters and things that need to be done, keeping on track and doing our file checks to make sure that we've got everything that we need to. So when Sam's getting to that settlement preparation time, everything's there.

Amy Bennett 8:02

It's an incredible well-oiled machine. I have no doubt. So many components, I guess and we'll talk about I guess a day in the life because I mean, I have the privilege of seeing, I guess, one component of what you do as representing, you know, my clients in the sale or the purchases as well. So we'll chat about, I guess, those matters. But I guess the most important thing with your team is that it sounds like everybody's got a defined role and they're all integrated and supporting each other.

Rebecca Robinson 8:29

Definitely. However, in saying that, because we are a small niche group, we do all know what's happening with each matter. So if somebody is away, sick or whatever the case may be, something unforeseen happens, there is somebody that can step into that person's role in the day so that the clients aren't disrupted, that's amazing, incredible, because I think probably the most important thing that I've observed over the years is that it is such time-sensitive matter, isn't it? Absolutely.

Property and Estate Law Services

Amy Bennett 9:03

Chat through a day, but I think, most importantly, let's talk about your afternoons, because that's really the busiest time in your practice. Right, it is?

Rebecca Robinson 9:11

yes yes, and it's when all those unforeseen, unexpected things, if they're going to arise will arise and they will all arise at once.

Rebecca Robinson 9:21

So generally settlements are between that two and four. We do try and get them earlier. It just depends on banks and things. It's not always possible. So if we have a busy day of settlements that are all happening between two and four, we need to make sure they're all ready to go. So the morning of settlement we check in to make sure the clients are ready to go, if they've got any last minute things. Sometimes we don't have settlement calculations and things finalised because, for example, maybe a payout figure hasn't been uploaded into the workspace yet or funds haven't landed in an account where they should have ready for settlement. So we address all those things first. So just do a check to make sure everything is where it should be. Then we move on to those settlement authorities. So making sure the client's got the settlement authorities or the calculations. They've signed them, They've returned them, we're ready to go.

Amy Bennett 10:16

Let's chat too through as well, because it's really interesting because we're so deep in this right, we do it every day, but I thought it's probably important to explain how a settlement occurs, sort of online now, but then let's go back to what it used to be too, because I think it's really interesting for our listeners about kind of what their personal experience is. And certainly you know, you and I, like a transaction doesn't happen for a client, you know every day. You know it does for us, you know every day but I'd love you just to explain that in a bit more detail about what that kind of occurs nowadays.

Rebecca Robinson 10:49

Settlements now. Yes, so with the electronic settlements with PXA it is far more smooth transaction than it used to be on the settlement date. So once upon a time, as with the paper settlements, there were so many components that all had to come together. So you've got your paper transfers that all needed to be signed. You had to get checks from the bank.

Amy Bennett 11:13

You had to get checks from the clients if they were contributing funds as well.

The Settlement Process Explained

Rebecca Robinson 11:18

Then you all attended Physically, physically at the one place at the one time. Yes, if one of those checks were incorrect, if one of the documents were incorrect, it didn't settle. So, yeah, it was once again between that two and four settlement period generally, and if things went wrong they went really, really wrong, and it was very, very difficult to rectify that situation in such a short period of time.

Amy Bennett 11:46

And I think it's interesting to note in that as well, because, I mean, we know the ramifications of that. So, you know, I always say to people that that's somebody sitting with a removal truck on a driveway, isn't it? The flow on effects and everything.

Rebecca Robinson 11:58

That's exactly right. Yes.

Amy Bennett 11:59

I remember the checks being posted into our office you know sort of balance of commission and then going up to the bank and taking a photograph of the check and inputting the information and so now it's instantaneous right Through PECSA.

Rebecca Robinson 12:13

Yes, so it's all electronic now. So it's the same thing, it's the same documents, but it's all electronic. So we can see those documents from the get-go. We're not waiting for documents to be returned to check if they've been signed correctly to make sure they haven't been damaged in the post. We can see what we call the destination lines, so where the money needs to go. So if there's money outstanding for rates, for example on a property, we can see those destination lines being put in there straight away, as it happens. So if there is something that's been uploaded incorrectly, we can identify that relatively quickly.

Amy Bennett 12:57

That's great and it's interesting. You say that because rates and water are. That's part of the settlement. That's probably something a lot of people don't realise as well yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Robinson 13:07

So because they're invoices that are for an extended period of time. So here on the Sunshine Coast your rates are six monthly for example. You have a settlement in between that time the seller may have paid for the full six months. So we make that adjustment in the settlement statement. So the seller is being refunded for the difference between the settlement date and the end of that rating period. Some people haven't paid their rates so obviously the buyers don't want to take that liability on or not required to take that liability on.

Amy Bennett 13:39

So we make sure that's paid at settlement Amazing.

Amy Bennett 13:42

And there's so many components, isn't it? We won't sort of go down the pathway of legislation and things like that. I'm sure you're grateful for that, but look, there's a lot of components. I mean, smoke alarms has been a huge thing. You know, on the podcast we've had a smoke alarm company come and explain that legislation. But there's a lot of T's to cross and I's to dot. Isn't there in, I guess, every component and I know we've just really drilled down on settlement there. But ultimately, like if we took it way back to contract reviews is obviously something your team does. But also I just wanted you to probably explain as well about representing either the seller or the buyer and how that works with another solicitor firm on the other side and kind of chat through that, because I think that's probably a lot of people just presume that you're working for both sides.

Rebecca Robinson 14:34

Yeah, so we can't act for both parties. It is a conflict. Yes, so you can't act in the best interest of both people for one transaction. So we act for either the seller or the buyer. In Queensland at the moment, as it presently stands today, it is buyer beware. So the buyer needs to do the body corporate inspections building and pest inspections searches for any concerns that they may have on the property. There's very limited requirement on the seller as it stands at the moment to disclose under the standard contract today.

Amy Bennett 15:12

So when you're listening to this, it'll be interesting to see, because that is coming right.

Rebecca Robinson 15:16

It is coming this space. Yes, absolutely so you know, if we're acting for a buyer, we're very much on the front foot in identifying potential issues that we see may arise in the location that they're buying. The age of the building can sometimes play a role.

Amy Bennett 15:38

So you're advocating for them to, I guess, essentially, you know, have a look at these things a little bit deeper.

Rebecca Robinson 15:44

Correct. Yeah, yeah, yep, so there's yeah, there's a lot more involved when you're buying the property as opposed to when you're selling as it currently stands.

Solicitor vs. Conveyancer Explained

Amy Bennett 15:54

So representing the seller is really the process of getting them prepared, making sure again. You know there is still things as well. Isn't there that paperwork that they require and need and everything like that? With regards to and I said to you I was going to ask this question because I think one of the myths or misconceptions I hear all the time is solicitor versus conveyancer. Not verse, but the differences with it. I would love you to explain those two roles, both very important and essentially understanding whether you can engage both and what that process looks like.

Rebecca Robinson 16:29

Yeah, so in Queensland a conveyancer can't act without a solicitor. So in Queensland, as it currently stands, a law firm as a solicitor has to have a practising certificate to practise. A solicitor has a law degree and is admitted with the Law Society as a practising solicitor. A conveyancer doesn't have that same qualification. So a conveyancer, conveyancing, paralegal, they look after the day-to-day transactions of a file and they are able to work autonomously on that matter with limited guidance and direction from the solicitor. But ultimately it falls on the solicitor to ensure everything is correct, that everything's signed off and it's all legally binding.

Amy Bennett 17:18

So you're a busy lady but you've got great support I do. Yeah, look, it's really good to give that clarification, because an example you gave me off air and what I asked about is essentially that conveyancer can provide, I guess, advice or sorry options around something, but no legal advice. Correct, yes, absolutely Awesome. So we know what you love about your team. It's very evident. But if not what you're doing now, is there anything else that you would do as a career?

Rebecca Robinson 17:48

Probably not I love that. It's all I've ever wanted to do. I did have an interest in law when I was in my senior schooling Amazing. So I did actually do some work experience with Tim during my senior schooling, which is how I was offered the position when I finished school and that kind of cemented that interest for me. That's amazing. This area. So no, there's not really anything.

Amy Bennett 18:18

I love that I did in high school. I did legal studies, so I had an interest in it but obviously just didn't have the passion that you have and the commitment to study for so long. It's just amazing to have guests on and that's ultimately why you're here is because you do have a passion and your care factor is so phenomenal for what you do, and also your willingness to share information. I think it's so important, especially when people are navigating. You know whether it's a passing of a loved one or selling a property after you know a huge number of years. Like I said, we kind of you know, we do it every day, so sometimes it's hard, isn't it, to realise how you know huge this process is for everyone, and for most people it only happens once in their lifetime.

Rebecca Robinson 19:06

That's right, so it's not something that they're doing every day, and it is overwhelming. There is so much paperwork and so much to go through and so many different aspects to consider. So, yeah, we do try and make it as smooth sailing as we can for them to help navigate through the difficulties.

Beyond Work: Personal Insights

Amy Bennett 19:26

Oh look, and it's an absolute credit to you. Like I said, it is such a big journey. We are going to chat a little bit more about Rebecca, outside of your world of being a solicitor. Bec, what would be your dream holiday destination in the world?

Rebecca Robinson 19:44

Well, I was fortunate enough only last year to tick off. One of my big bucket lists was Vietnam Amazing. So, yes, that was definitely on top of my list, so I was able to achieve that, which was fantastic. Next on the list is Canada.

Amy Bennett 20:01

Awesome, I've never been. Tell me what. Canada in the winter.

Rebecca Robinson 20:05

Canada in the winter I've always wanted to do White Christmas.

Amy Bennett 20:08

Yes.

Rebecca Robinson 20:09

My daughter is actually going over there on a working holiday, so I might just have to go and visit.

Amy Bennett 20:16

Amazing, oh, that would be incredible. Look, you hear nothing but great things about Canada. And we've got so much to explore, haven't we in the world, you know, especially us local Sunshine Coast gals.

Rebecca Robinson 20:29

Yes.

Amy Bennett 20:30

So I'm going to ask your favourite meal and drink, but I'm wondering if it's Vietnamese.

Rebecca Robinson 20:36

Yes, I do, yeah, I do. I don't really have one favourite actually. No, yeah, I couldn't really answer one.

Amy Bennett 20:49

When you were in Vietnam, your favourite meal do you remember something that jumped out or that you enjoyed?

Rebecca Robinson 20:56

We had a lot of quite authentic Vietnamese food. There's not really one that I enjoyed over any other. What I didn't like was their little insects and things.

Amy Bennett 21:16

Yes, and that was like what an entree.

Rebecca Robinson 21:20

We went to this one place and it had all this authentic food on the table and it was all like you wouldn't not appetising at all, but they thought that they were doing us a favour because it was all their delicacies. Yes, absolutely. And yeah, no, it wasn't very nice.

Amy Bennett 21:39

It takes me back to Borneo. I went with my mum about ten years ago and I'm a little bit of a weirdo. I don't eat meat on bones, like it sounds really silly. And so we were the same. We went into a beautiful village and we sat on the floor and they prepared all of this meal and it was all sorts of things feats and bones and everything like that and I was always brought up by my mum. You eat everything that's given to you and everything like that. So it's incredible, isn't it? And so many different cultures and things like that in the world. That is hilarious. Do you still eat KFC?

Rebecca Robinson 22:15

Not a lot, not a lot. I don't mind it. Every now and then my children try and convince me to get KFC for them every other day.

Amy Bennett 22:24

Yes.

Rebecca Robinson 22:25

Yes, it's not on the top of my list.

Amy Bennett 22:27

It's funny because our office is literally two doors down from the KFC that you worked at and especially, I think it's on the Tuesday night there must be some kind of chicken special and you get the most beautiful, like this swaft of chicken that comes. You get the most beautiful like this swath of chicken that comes through, and so every time I smell it I'm like it must be Tuesday. Oh, that is amazing, bec. I just love working with you, your passion for property and also helping people navigate. Before we sort of close off, I'd love for you just to probably share a little bit of advice and we've spoke about property, but more so on the estate and will space, and I guess you know the importance of getting your affairs in order if you've got a few minutes to share.

Estate Planning Advice

Rebecca Robinson 23:12

Yeah, absolutely so. It is really important and it is one of those things that is on everyone's list, but things that they have to do um, never a priority, and it can make things so much more difficult for your loved ones in in trying to finalize. It can cause lots of delays um and expense um in having toise. So something is better than nothing If you feel that you can get kits from the post office and you can fill those out something is better than nothing, we can work from there In saying that it is important, though, that you do get someone to look over it once you have completed it.

Rebecca Robinson 24:04

Yeah, because if it's not signed correctly, sometimes things as simple as using a different pen okay can impact the validity of a will. Yeah, wow so there's nothing wrong with with that form. But yeah, definitely get it checked.

Amy Bennett 24:21

And I think one thing, like when we were both speaking at the downsizing workshop that we did is it's people's reluctance to think about that, isn't it? I know that's really difficult for people to comprehend, or I guess we don't want that day to come, and that was really common not just with the estates, but also people thinking about aged care and things like that. You know we also just spoke about off-air. Is that having somebody to act on your behalf as well? And, you know, is that something you can sort of share about in appointing somebody to help you with matters, you know, if you're not able to yourself?

Rebecca Robinson 24:56

Yeah, so that's an enduring power of attorney. So that's, in effect, while you're alive. Yes, yeah, so that's an enduring power of attorney. So that's, in effect, while you're alive? Yes, so it enables somebody to make decisions for you on your behalf. It can start immediately, but predominantly it should be when you're unable to make decisions on your own. So if you can't do it, then there's somebody else that can do it.

Amy Bennett 25:17

Amazing, yeah, incredible. Look, you are an absolute wealth of knowledge. You are always my go-to gal and you're always so wonderful and gracious with your time and knowledge. I think the most important thing for people to reiterate is essentially to reach out. You know if people are starting to look at selling or they're looking at their purchasing journey, you know appoint somebody to be able to help you. That's probably the thing that I would advise listeners. You know, if you're starting a property journey is make sure that you've got everybody in your corner. I can only imagine that you would recommend to buy. You know you can speak to them and give them that forewarning of what to look out for.

Rebecca Robinson 25:56

Yeah, and we do offer that If they are thinking of buying or selling, we can have a chat with them so they know what to expect. And when the time comes, it does happen relatively quickly. So if you can be prepared and understand the process from the onset, it can make it easier to navigate and work your way through, yeah, and as a real estate agent like that would be definitely probably something, like I said, that I think is really important.

Amy Bennett 26:24

It's probably the one missing step, I find. You know, for example, I had a property, we had multiple offers. On Monday evening my client was able to select somebody that they wanted to proceed with. You know now, and there's probably a good thing to sort of discuss as well, because we can actually write contracts online as well and they're sent electronically, so different to when somebody would have, you know, probably sat down at your office as the buyer and then that contract you know I've heard of stories or I've even seen my team, you know, jump in the car and it goes to be signed. That can all just happen so quickly now, can't it with electronic platforms.

Rebecca Robinson 27:03

Yeah, yeah. And with that there is the expectancy now that it happens quicker.

Amy Bennett 27:08

Yes.

Rebecca Robinson 27:09

So there is that pressure sometimes to make a decision quickly.

Amy Bennett 27:14

Absolutely.

Rebecca Robinson 27:15

So yeah, we definitely. If they understand, if we're able to help them understand the process.

Final Thoughts and Closing

Amy Bennett 27:21

I think that's great as well, and even just things like the access a buyer has to a cooling off period as well in Queensland. So certainly there are those things. It's just really important for them to step through. I mean, we both know the size of a contract and obviously just getting a link to digitally sign it. You know, I'm sure I would hope Bec that people have read through every term and condition right of a contract. I'm sure you would advise that. Yes, and in your contract review, is there any other insights or anything like that for our listeners in all things property and estate law?

Rebecca Robinson 27:58

In all things property and estate law, in all things property and estate law, we could be here for a very long time. No, I'm happy to discuss any questions, anything that anyone has or would like answered, I'm definitely willing to give my time.

Amy Bennett 28:13

Amazing, and I think what I love most about you is that with that process, confidentiality is always assured. You know, like we said, these are really sensitive matters and having someone in you know, like we said, these are really sensitive matters. And having someone in your corner, especially with your not just expertise but your passion, and especially that, like you said, you're such a niche team as well that obviously all support each other and your clients. Amazing Bec. I would love to round out, like I do with every interview, with your favorite quote or saying if you've got one um.

Rebecca Robinson 28:44

So life is like a camera focus on what's important, capture the good times, develop from the negatives, and if it doesn't work out, take another shot hey, I like that.

Amy Bennett 28:54

That is a beautiful sentiment, beck. Thank you once again for your time. I know we are coming into the afternoon, which is settlement timeframe for your team, so we'll let you go. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this episode of Beyond the Signboard. We trust you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed making it for you. If there are any topics you want covered in the future, make sure you reach out and let us know. Also, feedback and suggestions are appreciated almost as much as likes, shares and downloads.