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Leadership in Colour from Shez Iqbal, Powered by Media For All [MEFA]
Leadership in Colour showcases outstanding leaders of colour sharing their personal journeys, offering valuable insights and advice, and highlights their current projects. Join us to hear from these inspiring leaders and expand your perspective on leadership.
Leadership in Colour from Shez Iqbal, Powered by Media For All [MEFA]
Episode 22 - The Power of Diversity: Growth Mindset with Matthew Chapman - Part 1
In this episode of Leadership in Colour, we sit down with Matthew Chapman, Chief Executive of SBFM, whose career journey has taken him from The Guardian to Arsenal Football Club — and now to leading a company that’s redefining what it means to lead with purpose.
Matthew shares how his upbringing in Bradford, his Jamaican and English heritage, and his early experiences in media shaped his approach to leadership, inclusion, and empowerment. Together, we explore how his company is humanising the facilities management industry — turning the often-overlooked role of “cleaner” into one of respect, dignity, and progression.
From the lessons he learned in advertising and football hospitality to the values that drive him today, this conversation is full of authenticity, humour, and heart.
🔹 Topics covered:
- Finding identity and balance as a middle child
- Lessons from The Guardian on ethics, culture, and purpose
- Transitioning from media to football and beyond
- Humanising the workplace: why every role deserves respect
- Empowering people from the “global majority” to thrive
- Purpose before profit — and why it still drives success
If you’ve ever wondered how values can shape business, or how leadership can create genuine social impact, this episode is for you.
🎧 Listen, reflect, and share your thoughts — because leadership comes in all colours.
Your feedback is always welcome, as we strive to enhance the content's value for you. Enjoy Leadership in Colour - Voices you may not have heard from before.
Welcome to Leadership in Colour. I almost forgot to introduce you to the podcast. And the reason being is because today's tone of conversation is going to be different to what you've experienced in the past. When I say that I'm excited, the excitement is uh it's not a nervous energy, it's the fact that I'm catching up with someone that I've known for years, and genuinely I think it's gonna be a laugh. So let me introduce you to my good friend Matthew Chapman.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:So, who are you, mate?
SPEAKER_00:You just said it, mate. Um I'm Matthew Chapman, um, chief exec of a company called SBFM. But if you want to really know I am, I'm some guy who was born in Bradford, West Yorkshire, and son of a Jamaican lady, and an Englishman called Philip. Mother's called Beverly. That's who I really am.
SPEAKER_02:I kick off these conversations with a question that I'm almost apprehensive to ask you because we've had jokes about this in the past, but it's been in my direction. Okay, and I use the meaning of your name, and you'll know why I'm laughing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, this is I remember the meaning of your name. This was before Chat GPT, and it was hard to actually find the real meaning.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I remember the meaning of your name. Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm the prince, by the way. No one's asked me. She can. Yeah, yeah, shake. Okay, so go on. Do you know the meaning of Matthew?
SPEAKER_00:I I know the meaning of Matthew. Uh got a predominantly Christian family, um, biblical meaning. Matthew means gift from God.
SPEAKER_02:Gift from God.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, which is ironic. Why? Um I don't know, because um my older brother's called Carlton, which means like the geeky guy from Freshman to Belair, and my younger sister is uh Helena, and that's probably because Jamaicans couldn't say Helena and put an H on it. Helena, um which means why so I got Matthew, which is like um yeah, a bit out of kilter of the other two.
SPEAKER_02:Do you know what the other two mean? Do you actually? I think it's okay if we don't.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, I think Carlton was like some kind of like nobleman type. Okay. I don't know about Helena, like I say, I think that was just made up. He stuck an A on Helena or H on Eleanor.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, nice names though. Yeah, your parents did both.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think my brother was named after the school my dad went to. Oh, okay. I think that was his school. Okay. Or a Vauxhall car called Carlton.
SPEAKER_02:There was a Vauxhall car. Yeah, yeah, there was, yeah, yeah. Vauxhall Carlton, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's not that's not so cool.
SPEAKER_02:That's I but ironically, your your brother is in the auto trade. So if that is true, that's a great story, right? Absolutely. So you're one of three. Yep. And you're the middle child. I'm the middle child. How's that?
SPEAKER_00:It's I always felt like you get balance as middle child. So they talk about middle child syndrome quite a bit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, but I had my brother to look up to that's all the called Carlton, he's maybe the opposite of Carlton Banks, he was like breakdancing before breakdance was a thing, and he always like cool and used to dress different, listen to like punk, not just hip-hop and RB and rap music. So I always used to follow in his footsteps, and then along comes my younger sister, and then you like become this, you feel forgotten. Your younger sister gets all the attention because she's a baby of the group, the older brother's off.
SPEAKER_02:She's a girl as well.
SPEAKER_00:She's a girl, yeah. The older brother's off doing his thing, who's looked at, and you're like, Where do you fit in? Um, but I think you learn both ways. So you get the responsibility of being the big brother to the younger, and then you kind of learn what to do and what not to do from uh mistakes and lessons learned and wins that your older brother gets. So, in hindsight, I think it's a cool position to be in. At a time, you just feel like, yeah, a bit left behind.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And do you think your parents look at the three of you and think, well, you know what, we've got it right the third time?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:She's the cool, she's really cool. Yeah. Your sister is like super cool, right?
SPEAKER_00:She's like one of the coolest people on the year.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:She's like, yeah, she's looked to look up to both of us and goes, Yeah, I ain't been like those two. Yeah. And she's got like swag and all of her vibes, all of the words.
SPEAKER_02:Because I saw her at Carlton's wedding. I think the first time I met her was probably, I don't know what it was. Maybe it was like your house party or something like that. It was some some something in Brighton.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was Christening, was it? It was Christmas. It's probably Christmas, it might have been christening.
SPEAKER_02:And uh, yeah, she just seemed like super.
SPEAKER_00:She is cool, she can sing, dance, clever, hardworking, love for everybody. But I do wonder because my mum always wanted a girl. Yeah, so if they tried and the third one's a boy, would there be another one and another one? How long would have that gone on for? So yeah, so it was like kind of my mum's wish to have a girl that she can mould, so you know, very different at times to boys. But she's got my sister, and she ironically, we used to just play rugby and football with her, so she's probably more of a blog than me.
SPEAKER_02:Talk to me about your actual role because we we we worked together many, many moons ago. Don't really want to date myself, but you can check it out on LinkedIn if you wanted. But it's it's it's gotta be about 15 years ago, I think, actually. Maybe maybe thereabouts. Yeah. We're in in the guardian. I reckon so, yeah. Yeah, so at The Guardian. And we were working in in advertising. I still work in advertising, and then you went on to Arsenal?
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Sports, hospitality.
SPEAKER_02:Right. So so talk to me about that journey.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so uh I think the Guardian was like, it felt like my first professional job.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And at the time, you don't really really fully appreciate how much grounded principles, disciplines you get. So we were in a tricky time in media. There was a lot of um move to online. So, you know, it was almost like a bit of a you could say depression, but then came all these opportunities that we got. That's where things are moving more so on TV, digital. Uh, but there was little things that they did at The Guardian that I took for granted, like just etiquette and emails, chat gaps when you meet a client, always have a pen so you show you're interested, and these things that you just think, okay. And then later in life, you're like, actually, when you see it not being done, oh my gosh, these are just grounded basics. And it was a journey from there was sorry, I I gotta say, chat gap was an item in my onboarding at The Guardian.
SPEAKER_02:I actually had an hour training on the chat gap.
SPEAKER_00:Walking when you meet that person, shake the hand, we're gonna walk to the lift. And what happens in that? Yeah, what happens in that three minutes?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because that's your first impression. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the detail they had. Um, I think the Guardian, as well, just on the journey, was really believing in the product. We were sales predominantly. Of course. Yeah, but you're advising about you know, people coming to you with a challenge they want to advertise, be it for a product or for a person in recruitment advertising. And I loved the fact that the Guardian made you really just respect and believe in the product. It's a left-wing newspaper, but it's what it stood for. Scots Trust, and they're charitable, it's not about profit, and they separate fact to opinion, all these things. I was like, Yeah, too right. We shouldn't be making stuff up in the media because it influences a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02:There was profit-seeking, not profit making.
SPEAKER_00:Correct.
SPEAKER_02:Which I heard in our first sort of town hall, and um I thought it was a joke. So when so we sat in this auditorium, because they had a lot, you know, lovely space, even in the the old building, and um I thought it was a joke, and I realized no one was laughing apart from me, so I had to bite my lip to the point that actually was bleeding a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:But you were a bit different, you were a different proposition because I remember when you walked in, suit, tied, media man had arrived, the king. Yeah, you'd worked in kind of advertising. Most people at a Guardian, when you look back, were people who've just moved to London, first job, typically graduate profile, and that was a start point. You'd already gone in a boiler room and make money environment. This was like, no, this is almost like charitable status. And you could argue actually, you look now, you go into Guardian, I don't know if you still read it, but they are constantly like saying, please contribute to us, yes, give us some money, because they needed some money to survive because the world is moving at a rapid rate and money does matter. So you wonder how much they'd change that principle. But you knew how to make money from day one. So I no doubt you were like, Well, yeah, profit.
SPEAKER_02:It was just confusing for me. I I you know it for me is like if I said that at Euromone, you know, like I'm just seeking profit. Yeah, I'm I don't know if I'm making it. I I I would have got fired. But I think I think but it's a different environment, as you say, yeah, and and the investment in The Guardian is is very different to Euromone, which had that Daily Mail and General Trust investment in it, different to News Corp, where I went to later. It's just um, you know, it's BBC esque, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. I think the The Guardian, uh and we and this is not a plug, yeah, but we we won an award recently in the business that map, which I'll get to, which was um purpose of the profit, okay, which mattered to me because that was that's what the Guardian was. Yeah, it was what they stood for, and they believed by having this integrity and ethical stance in the world, and basically that fact versus opinion, and letting people know when it's an editor's opinion versus actually what is the truth of the story mattered, and then the profit will come because people believe in the product, the profit comes secondary. I kind of carry that, and you still need to. I'm in a very I'd say um competitive environment, aggressive in facilities management. You know, there's not many ways you can differentiate. And we think we found some niches which we can we can get into if you want, but the main thing is what we stand for, and then people believe in us and follow us, and then the money comes later. The Guardian, I think they really instilled that in me. And maybe it was all always in me and in you too, but I really thought, actually, yeah, I backed that newspaper, and then obviously they moved to online, so they went from Broadsheet to Berliner, then there was an online team, everyone wanted to be in that digital team. Uh Josh Smith.
SPEAKER_02:I remember Josh Smith.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, everyone wanted to be with Josh Smith, and I got a little bit of an opportunity with the partnerships role, and then the best thing happened to me, which actually was a bit of a hurt, hurtful time. They offered naturally some redundancies, okay. And there were a lot of people who are asking to volunteer, and then there was people like actually you're going to be made redundant. At that time, you're like, What? I've been so loyal, and you start realizing that ethical business is still ethical, but they have to make a business decision, which was they can't afford to have all these people while things are moving at a rapid rate to online. But it brought an opportunity, and it's funny how the world works because my opportunity was with Arsenal Football Club, which is a team that we both support. I hope you still do support.
SPEAKER_02:Um, this man took me to my first Arsenal game. I was gonna put it out there, it was Arsenal versus Man City. Yeah, it's a good game. Good game, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Good game.
SPEAKER_02:And I and I didn't realise what a privilege it was, yeah. Because I hadn't, I didn't, you know, and and I think football you know, football's a huge thing because you go into an office environment, and especially at a young age, one of the first questions people ask you is like, what team do you support?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I was uh common ground. Yeah, I I didn't really have a my my dad didn't really like push a team, whatever. So for me, you took me to Arsenal, um, and that was about 16 years ago, 15, 16 years ago. So we're we're at Guardian, way before then, actually. And uh it's always been Arsenal Palace. So Palace is my local team, yeah. So it's it's it's Arsenal Palace.
SPEAKER_00:This is it, but I mean, you look at these privileges that we get, how magical with the fact that we got to go, yeah, and how great is it that you'll you remember that first experience and you give other people, and I know you did, you gave loads of other people their first experiences.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and they they owe me, by the way. If you I don't have the tickets anymore, feel free to come back.
SPEAKER_00:I know that feeling, but you've given that experience, and look at that, you love the product and believe in the team, and here you are giving other people, and that's how the fandom is created.
SPEAKER_02:So, what were you doing at Arsenal? Oh, yeah, sorry.
SPEAKER_00:Well, a step back is a gentleman um called David had who worked for Glasgow Rangers um and worked in football. I once got a phone call from Manchester United wanting to place an advert of the Guardian for a commercial director. And in short, I shouldn't really do this, but integrity. I said, Oh, you know what, before you advertise, I actually know somebody, before you place your half-page advert, and that's somebody who'd be a good fit for this role. It's called David, I can make an introduction for you, and this lady's gone, yeah, absolutely. Next thing I introduce David and I fly him out to Miami to meet the Glazer family. Oh wow, yeah, and he gets a job. Nice, and he remembers that he got that job. And then when I knew I was going to be um redundant with a guardian, I put feelers out like everybody would, and he's like, Oh, I know somebody at Arsenal Football Club. Let me put you in touch with a guy called Russell at Arsenal. Yeah, I go to Arsenal Football Club, I've been my interview like everybody else, talk about David says you're a great guy and told me a bit about you, got the professional grounding of the Guardian. We want people like you coming in because really football at that stage wasn't as professional as it could be, it was pretty much jobs for the boys, and very much people had been in the club all my life, and my dad's dad's dad's mum's friend got me in. So I ended up going to Arsenal and worked in the hospitality seat pagination. Uh then in my latter season was looking after some of the players' families and VIPs on match day, which was a whole different insight into human connection, realising that you're dealing with and speaking to a sheikh or a billionaire, and they're so humble, and sometimes you're dealing with just a fan on a ticket who's talks to you like that, and realizing actually, why does this man or lady speak to me with you know respect, and these people can't? So it gave me this whole spectrum of personalities, and actually the common ground was football connection, but some people just you make yourself realizing the world isn't quite so as sanitized as I think the Guardian made us believe, especially working in London.
SPEAKER_02:Um it's a very, very different environment, right?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, it was so emotive, the team loses, people are upset, sales can go down, people are complaining about the club. Why am I paying so much money when they can't buy or sign this player? You're doing that and then you're winning. Everyone, wow, yeah, want to give more and back. And it's a hard product to have because you don't have control over it. This the product is really the team. So um I worked there for a few seasons, but one of the people who were my clients was a uh gentleman who worked in an industry called facilities management, got to know him, his wife. He starts trying to understand my background. He knows I've done law, I worked in marketing, media, and he's saying, Oh, he's trying to attract me into this industry that I'd never even heard of, which was facilities management, but he's really selling it. He's like, Oh, yeah, no, no, it's not quite as glam, and you don't have this, you don't have that, but we're going places. And then I went for dinner and he was like, and I can only pay you X. That X was twice as much as what I was getting in sports, and I was like, and I just styled it out, I was just like, kept like really inside. I was like, oh my god, oh my god, but I just kept still and was like, okay. Told my wife, and then it was like, we've got to give this a go. We had our daughter on the way, and actually, you know, building that platform for family matters. Um, and I took a leap of faith, believed in the guy, did a checkout and jumped into an industry I had no knowledge of, no background experience, but actually felt I could make a difference from these steps and learnings and contacts I had made previously. And then I moved into facilities management, did business development, marketing, and various different leadership roles. And here I am today, still in facilities management, but I am a shareholder and chief exec of SBFM, which is a very fast-moving, growing facilities management company, which I guess brings together social value principles in an industry that needs it. A lot of the workforce are cleaners, low-paid. We're talking national living wage below the actual standard of living and the cost of living, which is just ironic. That is the national living wage when you can't really sustain life in the UK at that level. And then it's a hard environment being a cleaner. So I feel our businesses manage to create a product and a purpose where we can empower people so that actually it's okay to be a cleaner, but we'll help you for those who want it to progress your lives so that you can progress to be like any role you want, to be accounting, project management, leadership, like ourselves. Why not? And we couple that with technology so that we give people insights on themselves, so they don't know if doing a good or bad job, because half the time when you're a cleaner, you only ever hear, you don't get a pat on the back, you only ever hear when something's not right and someone has an opinion. And guess what? My opinion may be different to your opinion, to someone else in the building. So you get a lot of negativity association. Something goes missing in the building, first person to blame.
SPEAKER_02:Cleaner. Cleaner. Yeah, cleaner. It's ridiculous, isn't it? It is that cleaner's really going to make a lot of money out of stealing your whole bunch. Um like your phone that's three years old. Why is this cleaner going to care about it? Why is that more valuable than their job?
SPEAKER_00:Correct. And I think um where we are now is this I guess I don't know, this privilege that I've been given. Like my business partner has taken a leap of faith. He he did everything, he was a butcher baker, candlestick maker in the business that he started 11 or 12 years ago. And he's said, actually, you come on and be my chief exec. And I feel that we've humanized the cleaner, the cleaner. That cleaner is Shizad or Shiz, who has a beautiful family and has walked whichever paths of life and has their own experiences, or it's you know, like my mother, Beverly, who've been in Jamaica and actually been a nurse and can do these other things. And you and this is what we try to do create actually, it's not cleaner, it's a human being who deserves every single right and respect that we'd expect in an office environment or the built environment. If they go sick, in fact, there is if a cleaner goes sick in most businesses, you're lucky if they even get a call to see if they're okay. What they do is go, cleaner's sick, can you get someone else in? That's that's that's cattle. That is like, yeah, get someone else in because it's building is the knot. Whoa, Matt didn't turn up today. Are you okay, Matt? If I didn't turn up to my job or you didn't, they'd check in on you and they'd expect you to take some time. No, here they're like looking to replace you in this industry, which is no no. So we've humanized the cleaner, it's a big piece of empowerment, and we're using tech to help people showcase when they've been productive and build out their CVs. So for those ones who have all their different languages, skills, you know, be the learning qualifications in financial basic skills in English language, they use that and we'll help them go to their next step, either with us or elsewhere, where everyone else is suppressing and trying to hold back the cleaner.
SPEAKER_02:I think the um the fact that you're humanizing this this role and that you know these individuals is um is great, right? And and I have to admit that uh I I really don't like people who don't acknowledge service people around a building or in you know in any environment. If you're if you're in a restaurant or in an office, and uh I I try my best to take a little bit of uh time to to maybe get to know their name or find out a little bit about them. Again, if you if you can get a little bit of banter going about football, then that's always you know pretty decent. But um, broadly speaking, most of them that I I come across come from uh from minority backgrounds, or this um there's this person that uh I I interviewed in previously uh called Colette who who um I don't know if she coined the phrase, but she's got this, she calls it global majority. So people from the global majority background. And I'm gonna hazard a guess, you correct me if I'm wrong, that in your industry, in the facilities industry, it's um a bit of a triangle if you think about the weight of people of colour, right? So there's maybe a lot more on the service end and less in the office, or at least there must have been at the beginning.
SPEAKER_00:That's absolutely correct.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So how's how's that though? Because Garden was really diverse, media industry is pretty diverse. Like going into that environment is it's gonna be tough. Is it diverse?
SPEAKER_00:Um think of the demographic in media. Yeah, it is diverse because you're looking at it, but it's typically middle class upwards. It's people who either live in London in media, I know it's expanding and globally in Dubai. There's a big kind of gold rush to Dubai, wasn't there, in the time that we were in media. I know you still still are in media, but it wasn't actually that diverse because everybody lived in London in The Guardian, and therefore everybody probably had some form of backing to start out, to pay rent, go to university. So they were actually diverse by luck, but they all had a similar grounding background. There's very few that had very little. Well, there's very few, in my opinion, and I don't know everyone's backstory, which is you know one of our business phrases, everybody has a story. But I would have got I would guess that most weren't kind of on the poverty line, and therefore there wasn't much diversity, as in those people who probably had a parent as a clean and didn't get the opportunity to be in media. You see that in arts as well, hence why some people could be a runner for the BBC or ITV getting paid very little because they could afford it. Yeah, mum and dad will support.
SPEAKER_02:I I'll I'll I think you're right. No, no, but you're absolutely spot on because the reality is that it's not that media is not that diverse. Well, the higher up you go, it's not that diverse. There is some diversity for sure, but it's not that diverse. But in our industry, we're very um careful about what we say, and and and some of that might just be you know just for the show, right? People might just be pandering to you know, whatever it is, pandering to HR, pandering to you know, equality and and DEI, and and maybe they don't really buy into it. But the fact is that there are still uh some organizations, most organizations I would like to think, that try to talk the talk. Maybe they're not walking the walk. How how is it on your end?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh there's a lot. There is a there is a lot in the industry who exactly do that. They will Pride Month change the logo, yeah, yeah. They will Black History Month give two stories, and it probably all three, it'll be Mike Luther King, Rosa Parks, and Nelson Mandela.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:What they won't do is talk about some real challenging issues or give an opinion or a stance on something like my business. We'll talk openly. We do uh learn at lunch events where we are bringing people in, and I I uh last year's Black History Month, I did the Learn at Lunch, and the last thing I wanted to do was only talk about the people that they already knew. I was going way, way back, and I was talking about slave trade and why going back to your original question, why is it that 80% of our workforce is from an ethnic minority or a person of colour? Why did it get there? Because it didn't used to be like that. Egypt, Africa was the riches, literally the richest man ever, Mansumasa, richest man ever, richer than Elon Musk and all these people put together was around. How did it get to this? So I'm gonna go back to answer your question directly. The British, or let's say UK and Ireland uh demographic is typically, and someone I'm sure will do some research on Chat GPT and tell me I'm wrong, but it's typically like mid 60% white British to non-white British. If you then get into our industry, our even our business, 80% is non-white British. So therefore, this is my logic, why? And you can go way back and I won't do the whole history lesson, but you can guess why. Um, and there are people coming to the country who tend to not be British and they're looking for opportunities to get on the employment ladder, especially look in London, it is this melting pot of opportunity. People will get into London and then they're like, right, where can I start? And guess what? There are cleaning jobs. And I've got in this business stories of people who started as a cleaner and who are operations directors, but that journey, like coming to the UK with£20 in a pocket and thinking, I need a job, even if they had a degree in Africa, and in this country, someone somewhere is like, oh, that doesn't matter, that's an African degree. That's not quite a Oxford, Cambridge, Newcastle, wherever degree. So your degree is not as important as these ones, so the only job you can get is you know, retail assistant working in a warehouse, picker, or cleaner. So we benefit from that. My challenge is if we've got 80% who are non-white, so let's take you know we love sports, so let's say that's a sports analogy. That is the academy. That's our academy, that's our starting point on the journey in SBFM or whichever facilities management company. Why is it not slowly changing in the office? So you're absolutely right, the office is nowhere near as diverse. Our office, I think, is more diverse than some. Nowhere near is it showing that for this isn't in the last three years. This isn't since you know you know lockdown when George Floyd and all that stuff happened and it became more prominent. We're talking years it's been like this. Why are people not progressing? So there's a big suppression that we're trying to unlock because the only difference with people of colour and people without is the melanin in the skin.
SPEAKER_02:It's and do you think that um there has been a slight step change in in a positive direction, i.e., more diversity within you know the back office or headquarters or you know, however you want to describe it.
SPEAKER_00:But it's not proportionate. Because even if we took the it's not yes is the answer, steps forward. Absolutely. Yeah, there's things going on in the US and people's stance that probably we shouldn't get into and talk about UK and Ireland, what you know I feel like in my or our business I have controls on, but it's not enough if the UK is 60 plus percent, the offices are better in ours, it's still not still not anywhere near what it should be. Why? Because the capability is there.
SPEAKER_02:So um So do you do you have a a positive discrimination recruitment mandate? No, okay.
SPEAKER_00:No, and the reason for that is we believe everybody has a story. So what we do is blind CVs, but what we don't do is go, you must recruit or you interview five of these people to be. Just everybody gets given an opportunity, and what we're looking for is I know a lot of businesses talk about the values, but we are literally looking for our values, which is be a good person, play as a team. So you need to be respectful, good person is kind, respectful, gratitude, play as a team is the team is the client, but beyond that, the team is your frontline colleague, and notice the difference there, clean up frontline colleague, that frontline colleague, the head office colleague, or then actually the management out in the field who you don't always see. So the ops managers, field-based managers. And then the next one is think differently, which is growth mindset. So we're recruiting like, has someone come there with a growth mindset and said, actually, I want to be the best frontline colleague you've got, or I want to be where you're sitting, shares. And then the second bit of growth mindset is been able to match the competition, but do at least one thing that the competition don't dare to do or don't think about. So most companies can have cleaners, not every company can have frontline colleagues who are empowered, and then go we go to our clients and go, see that frontline colleague? They'd be a great employee to you because I know you're trying to recruit Mr. or Mrs. Logistics or retail. Why don't you take our colleague here? Not many companies do that because they want to keep the best for themselves. We're doing the opposite. We're like going, we want this person to even progress with us, and if we can't take them on this journey, take them. And we don't charge for them, there's no recruitment fee, and this is the purpose of a profit. This is you take this person because you've got more opportunities in your retail or grocery business and give them that whole talent trajectory that we can't because they are good, and that's how we then motivate and sell the story to try and empower the next people. And so we're looking for good person, good people who play as a team, think differently, and then make a positive impact so that they don't forget how they felt when this business called SPFM took them on its magical journey and said, you know what, we want you to lead positively, it's better for you, we don't begrudge you, and then they inspire the next generation to come into our business. That's the model.
SPEAKER_02:But that but that sounds like very much like a you know Southampton feeder team from 10 years ago, like 10, you know, 10 years, like it's common sense, it's not no, but but that that's you know, that it is is a thought process that we can invest in these people, we can take them as far as we can take them, but if we can't take them further, and we can see an opportunity somewhere else, then we're gonna we can allow them to go okay, right.
SPEAKER_00:But it's not it's not it's common sense, and guess so this the the profit can come because guess what? The client, the end client is like, great, we work in retail and we're taking we're helping what is a hard-to-fill job. So I don't know, retail assistant. You speak to and you remember um one of our colleagues, Muni, worked out in Indeed, and you know, they had a great model for you know jobs, advertising, but the insights that they actually have were like telling us that a frontline colleague, a cleaner, the next thing they search was warehouse operative or retail operative or assistant. So therefore, we can go to our clients who typically are logistics or retailers. We've got 9,000 people, we've actually got more, and I'll explain this as it's the More simplest thing, but we've got 9,000 people who would love the majority because some want to be a cleaner and take pride and love what they do. But we've got potentially 9,000 who could be your next employee who are searching on indeed saying they'd like to work for you and you're struggling to recruit be at Christmas or whichever, and then the profit comes because they go, We'll stick with this facilities management company because they're helping uplift us and fit to our business strategy. Other companies, quite frankly, it's like no no no, I've got my best cleaner Matt or Shares. I'll keep him cleaning is damn good. It's productive, he gets all that stuff done. Let's I need him. No, no, I need him is not the answer. What does Matt or Shares need for their progression, for their families or their objectives of life? And that's where we go.
SPEAKER_02:Please speak. So firstly, I I gotta I gotta say um to my wife, I know you're gonna be laughing at the fact that Matt's calling me a cleaner, and I'm actually not very good at the cleaning of the house, so you know, like have your moment. But um, I think I do the dishes pretty well though, to be honest with you. I can imagine. Yeah, the two of us, I think I do the dishes better, but you know, I'm sure she still controls and rules the uh the house. She's great. So um the the the thing is, what what what I'm picking up is that the the relationship matters, right? Like what it feels like what you're actually doing is securing cementing your network and your relationship with your clients, appreciating that nothing stands still, right? Because you put a star player from SPFM into client's house, right? Yeah, then they they may there may be an opportunity for you to work closer with them in the future, there may not be, but at least that's like one of yours, right? Like you, you it's almost like you're you're spreading your family far and wide. Yeah, and if if something great comes out of it, great. If it doesn't, then it doesn't, right? Yeah. At the end of the day, you what you want is to see your people grow and prosper.
SPEAKER_00:Correct.
SPEAKER_02:But but also as a byproduct of it, if you allow them to grow and prosper within you know your neighbouring families, right? i.e. your clients' houses, then that's only strengthening your relationship with your clients. And and and again, going back to the point before, is that it's a highly competitive industry that you're in for facilities management. So if this is one thing that you can do over and beyond your competition, then again, you know, you're saying stop of mind because they can say, oh, right, um, where did we get this A-star player from? You know, where does this person come from? Like they're amazing. You know, oh actually, we were referred by like it's it's uh it's absolutely that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But and that matters, but they're how you make that person feel, yeah, they're gonna remember it. Yeah, how we fell at a guardian, they're gonna remember that, and they're gonna be let's face it, a lot of people it is referral, especially, especially in our industry, because a lot of the recruitment has been for years. Actually, frontline colleague goes, Yeah, there's a vacancy there. Oh, I know somebody because their community, their network, whatever like walk alive or demographic, they'll typically know somebody who would take that job. So actually, but if you can get them so they're so believing in the product as in the business they work for, and they made them feel so special because they helped even person X move on or they're helping them progress, they're gonna tell that person, come and work for this company over all those other compet competitors in the 90 billion industry. And that and that that's the modest, most simple thing, but you're absolutely right. We want people to progress, which just seems like human, surely that's we shouldn't be tearing people down. But the difference is, because I'm using the word competition, but I'm here talking about it, and I've been talking about it in our industry for 12 to 14 years, because I want other companies to do it, because we're 9,000, we're 9,000 people who will tell, I know, however many of them sell, but we're relatively mid sized in our industry. There is companies with 100,000 workforce who could do this, it doesn't cost a thing, really, if you think about it. Just doing the right thing. Just doing the right thing.