Branding. Done.
Dawn Creative goes through all elements of branding, from the basics through to the real nitty-gritty.
Each episode, we host a new guest, to speak about how different areas of branding have impacted their role, their business, and the projects they have worked on.
We'll speak to MD's, marketing managers, creatives, and people across various businesses to get a variety of viewpoints on why branding, and all the elements within it, are so important.
Branding. Done.
Work hard and be nice to people: Values in marketing with Lisa Pearson.
In this episode we're joined by Lisa Pearson, ex head of Marketing for Arriva and Merlin Entertainments Plc (Blackpool Division), Board Member at The Women's Organisation and current Marketing Director at Open Media. Phew! Lisa, with her impressive portfolio of 22 career experiences, 12 volunteer roles, and 7 honours and awards, graces us with insights from her life and career, and her steadfast commitment to both professional and volunteer work.
From the corridors of banking to the vibrant world of media, Lisa has witnessed firsthand the evolution of brand values and propositions. Listen as she unravels the overhaul of brand guidelines and values at Open Media, a company flourishing under its impressive growth. Pay attention as she underscores the vital need for consistency in upholding these values across all departments, not just marketing, for a brand to truly bloom. This conversation promises to crack open a fresh perspective on the distinctiveness of personal and brand values apart from visual identity.
But, our conversation doesn't stop there. We venture into the terrain of hard work and personal goals. We discuss our thoughts on the mantra of 'work hard and be nice to people', and the joy derived from completing tasks or surpassing personal goals. Lisa generously passes on the torch to younger generations with her mantra - doing your best and striving for excellence. Brace yourselves for an engaging dialogue that dips into the depths of values and how they mould both individuals and brands.
Hi, I'm your host, dave O'Hernes, and this is Branding Done. We're here to rid the world of bad design and poor communication through powerful branding. Each episode, we'll be speaking to different people from different backgrounds to hear their stories and experiences and uncover what a brand truly is. Hi Lisa Hi.
Speaker 2:David, yeah, great, go on, go on. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Good stuff. Well, thanks for joining us today. It should be fun to talk about values, but before we jump in, obviously we've not met before, so new conversation for both of us. I always like to have a little bit of a rummage around on people's LinkedIn profiles, whether I know them or I don't, which generally unnerves the guests at the start. But lots to go out on your profile. But just thought it'd be interesting just to read out a few little highlights that I think will probably shape, without me knowing it, some of the conversation anyway today, because, looking at it and this is like the top level stuff.
Speaker 1:It says in career 22 career experiences. So a lot of activity that could be overlap. It could be other things, but it's going 22. And I had a look at them really varied stuff going on so that's interesting in itself. It highlighted 12 volunteer experiences as well, which you have to be able to fit that in on top of all the work experiences as well. And then it also highlighted seven honours and awards as well over the years. So I thought top level, just to mention those three that you just talked about them briefly, just some interesting numbers of thought and the fact that some directly weren't related then volunteer, then honours and awards and things like that. I think it's really varied. Just be interested to hear your take on that a little bit. A quick summary.
Speaker 2:So what I will say is I am 100% one of those people who crams the maximum amount of time. I will put an activity into my 24 hours. So your reflection there of the number of career experiences, the voluntary roles and, yes, the awards and nominations, is absolutely reflective of my life in general. I have a lot going on a lot of the time. You are right.
Speaker 2:My career journey and history to date that has been overlap, because I do take on as well as having, I suppose, what I would call my day to day my main role.
Speaker 2:So, like my marketing director role for Open Media at the moment being my main role and priority role, I do, then also often have a number of either voluntary or non-exec trustee roles which I support in the background, and those are roles they've always been roles that support or are a part of charities, public sector businesses, not for profits that are involved with, are involved in either industries or in projects that are important to me on a personal level.
Speaker 2:So you'll see, I'm a sit as part of the board for the Women's Organization, which is massive to me on a personal level to be able to work with Maggie and the team. But yes, to digress, you are right. It's been a very varied career journey to date and I've taken a lot of experience from the different roles in the different industries I've been in. I've been able to operate within media industry, professional services, so within the legal sector, within leisure, entertainment, within public transport. That was my last role before coming over to Open and we operate it. We are digital out-of-home media owners. So I've had a lot of different industry and sector experience and every single role I've taken in learning from into the natural from a marketing point of view.
Speaker 1:So some people would be probably happy just having a job, you know, getting paid at the end of the month and stuff like that. I'm not dissimilar, to be honest. I'm quite an early riser, normally get up at 4.45, try and have an hour and so to myself before the world wakes up. Get some fitness in, get to work and pack in as much as you can. You only have one life at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:Yes, very much so, very much so. As cheesy as it may sound, listen, I'm not one of those people who has a sticker on the back of my car that says if you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space. I'm not of that kind of belief, but that thing of your life should be enjoyed. I believe that you should try to do as much as you can do good stuff. Don't be an idiot, don't hate anyone, but as much as you can do to make your life enjoyable and memorable, and that you learn from it constantly. I think that's really important and I love that you're an early riser and you get your fitness in. That's the same. For me, that's the time of the day that I do best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, same. Otherwise I think it's too easy for the day to take ownership of yourself and then after that talk yourself out of something because you've had a busy day. So I'd rather just say, right, I'm gonna run my day at the start and then try and own as much of it during the day. But also I like think I'm quite supportive. So that means if people need help or direction, then you need to be there for others as well.
Speaker 1:Today we're gonna be talking quite a lot about values I've always believed in, you know, 25 years ago when I started out in the career probably didn't know much about them from a business perspective then, but I've grown into that and realized how important they are to a brand. And that's not to be confused with visual identity that people think a brand is. Often people think a logo is a brand. Brand is ultimately everything that a company does. So I find that really important and I like to think I have quite strong personal values myself as well. I'll often say it's very rare that people will sit down and write their own values down on a piece of paper, because it's just not a done thing. So I'm assuming you've never done that, but you may have some really strong values that you stand for.
Speaker 2:So it's really interesting actually that you're saying this. I think saying that's saying the point about actually writing them down. So I believe I've always had quite a strong handle on what is important to me and where I will get involved or support something or want to work for a business because of what they're about. I recognize that those factors are linked to my own personal values. Have I before now sat down and literally wrote those things down on paper? No. However, towards the back end of last year, I started working with a professional personal development coach, a wonderful lady called Nikki, because I'd reached the point in my career where I felt lost and bear with me on this one. It does link to values and I wanted someone to help me, because I'm not too proud to say I'm struggling a little bit with this on my own. I think I may need some external help or someone with a fresh pair of eyes to come and guide on this one. So I knew that I needed some assistance to almost understand what I stood for, what I wanted from my career.
Speaker 2:Where I wanted to go to next and started working with Nikki and unbeknownst to me, one of the first exercises that she had me do was to write down, or to understand and actually write down towards the funny you saying about.
Speaker 2:It's not something people normally do, but one of the first exercises that she had me do was actually really think about what was important to me and, as I say, unbeknownst to me. That was addressing my values and what makes me take, what I stand for, why I go after certain things, and at the core of absolutely everything that I am about and do was family and, linked within that, security, protection, being able to provide, being responsible for my family. So everything in terms of me wanting to be successful, to do well in my career and that's always been the case since I started out working it all came back to this family value and this importance of being able to provide and care for my family, which probably sounds really obvious, but the work that I did with Nikki in those initial times of starting to work with her made me realise that it's not monetary, it's not materialistic, it is literally down to that really important family piece.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it is important. We actually did a little thing the other day where we stopped people in the street and asked them about the values. Yeah, I think it would be a little bit different and we've got some interesting characters and responses. But one lady said family and family values and it came down to relationships and community and things like that, and she worked in a bank when a bank was a bank and you'd have to get it to be face to face and she obviously is retired now.
Speaker 1:but she was just saying feels like it's a bit of a lost art that you are just a number in a system a lot of the time and that she missed that side of work where you could get closer relationships with people and customers and have a friendly face.
Speaker 2:It's really interesting. You've just mentioned that as something that she said having been in. I'm guessing having been in that particular industry for a long time and seeing such change nationwide as a bank at the moment are hooking their latest marketing campaign and you see a lot of it on outdoor. Obviously we're aware of that because we keep an eye on what's happening. They have got a really strong campaign at the moment which is about still being on the high street and that's where we're staying. So that point of still being a bank with branches where you will physically go in and see somebody and talk to somebody, and linking back to that lady's point, that relationship and community importance of a bank, so I hear her entirely when she's saying it's changed and that value she notices it's different within her industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, and and you've obviously got values. So you've kind of gone through an exercise of writing them down to some degree Now, which is more than what other people might. I always find it interesting that we're all born with no values and the day we're born, yes, then obviously get shaped over time and that's, you know, either parents, upbringing, whatever friends, influences through school, sometimes just your own character that's been, you've been born with, you know, might be different to other family members and things like that. Where do you think some of your personal values have ultimately come from? Where, would you say, your greatest influence for some of some of them are?
Speaker 2:And I would say it's definitely from my mom and I know that that is going to sound like a real cheesy thing to say and probably a Little bit of a cop up, but it definitely is. If I think about how important the family, the family situation, the family values are to me is as a direct result of how I've saw, how I watched and grew up with Seeing hair operate for us and I say operate because she did literally multitask and multi-manage everything from from home life through to a really intense job. She put herself back through and Education as an adult because she knew that in terms of needing to career is developing her own career, so career enhancement, she needed to push herself and gain better for qualifications and she really benefited from that and she was just a really she continues to be, but particularly when we were younger a really good role model. So I think I'm hoping that I'm articulating this well enough to say that I think seeing her and what she did for us as a family and what it helped to provide for us and the way then she supported me through and and further education, that sort of later time of going through college and university etc and then going into my professional career and then how I've had to navigate the worlds of work, as as a mother and also as a woman in business. I have taken a lot of learning and have 100% saw my own values and what's important to be shaped. I haven't seen how, how she was and what was important to her.
Speaker 2:And I'm also really lucky to have had some excellent role models around me at all stages of my career, the majority of them being women, and that is not to say that I have not worked with any really great, great men. I have where, if I think about some of the leaders not managers, but leaders that have had in roles over the years, they they have absolutely Sean epitomized, however you want to say it and integrity and Authenticity in their roles as leaders. So I've known exactly where I stand with people and that's important for me now, especially coming into this role and being new in this role, I'm trying to develop a team. I'm trying to bring the team on a journey with me, as we, you know, put marketing strategy. I did. That's going to help this business to grow. I need people to believe in me and I need people to trust what I'm saying and to Step outside of their comfort zones. A little bit in terms of activity we're doing, so I'm I've definitely been shaped by how I've seen my Leaders authenticity and integrity come through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think you need role models that you can relate to. You know. You know you kind of said, oh, feet on top of female leaders not, I've not worked with good net leaders, but it's important, isn't it? You know there's been a Disney film name, but there was a character where they asked people to submit ideas and one wanted glasses on a particular Disney character. I can't think which film it was, but Kind of really happened.
Speaker 1:And I remember seeing the girl interviewed on BBC going. She couldn't believe that there was a replica of her on the big screen and the third time she could remain as someone that was wearing glasses as a young child. It was actually the, you know, the main character of of film. So I think you can forget that sometimes, you know, younger people are influenced by what they see. Yes, yeah, sometimes you've got to see something that's similar as well. Yeah, it's a really inspire you as well. So I think it's important that you do. You do pick up on that and I do believe parent parents.
Speaker 1:So if you're fortunate to be brought up with parents as well, that they do influence you know the way that you are, and Most people have both, and sometimes it's one of them that drives you more. You know my, my mom has always had well, not always, but pretty much always had two jobs. She's 74 and still has two jobs Wow, I'm one of them cleaning our studio once a week as well. She gets paid very well, but yeah, she kind of always. I always look up to her for a passion and enthusiasm, but also caring nature as well. She's always tries to be open and happy and and you know you listen to what you're saying there you can see how it will inspire you to get stuck in getting involved in a number of things constantly learning, caring, volunteering, those types of things, yeah, yeah, I'm really lucky with with them just touching on the volunteering role and that there's some of the trusty and roles that I have Still have and have had over the years.
Speaker 2:I'm really lucky that because of what I do so marketing, communications, branding, pr, etc. A lot of businesses or let's get, let's focus more on sort of charities or projects Want assistance with that but don't necessarily have the resource or financial resource to pay for that Expertise to be in house. So I've been really looking at, I've been able to improve my own marketing understanding by supporting All their groups, projects, charities, etc. That, in the grand scheme of things, I may not have had the opportunity to work for full-time or to have gone into. So I'm giving something, I'm giving something back. Again sounds like a tool, cliche, but I'm benefiting them and at the same time I'm supporting my own professional persons of elements and network and that's that's that's really important, that's that's a massive thing to me to keep on with that learning opportunity and constantly seek out that at all times.
Speaker 1:So just touching on that, you kind of moving into business with with values and things like that as a set of times I'm not even believing in value open, an individual level, but also from a brand level.
Speaker 1:You know, for me that's the whole reason why they ever came about was that someone set up a company, what to do in a particular way, that particular way with, probably driven by their own values, and then they get frustrated when other people couldn't quite follow it. So after then, if you could document the values, it meant that you have something to say no, no, this is how we want to try and do it. This is kind of cool to want to create, and then it didn't become opinion based then because it was something that was already written down. So Values can often an exercise could be done. You create values or you've got values and you put some more energy back into them.
Speaker 1:But they often sit with the marketing team, I would say, and either that becomes successful and they get pushed out into the business, or it pretty much sits with marketing and creativity, so that the visual identity in the comms, hopefully, are on brand. But that's not always the case either, because people have opinions and then it starts to break down slightly. But for me, value should push through the whole of the business, every decision the business makes. What's your experience of values in the marketing roles that you've had? Do you know? I'm sure it's varying degrees of success as to how much the company adopted them.
Speaker 2:It's, yes, it's interesting I'm nodding my head here as you're putting forward that summary of values and marketing, often taking ownership of bringing them to life and then owning them, but that it's not entirely. It's my family force. So, david, that it's not on marketing to ensure that from the top down in any business, that they are understood and they become BAU. You know, anybody in the business can be asked what do we stand for? And everybody can give the same answer. So, yes, in my last role with Arriva, the whole business went through a brand values relaunching. But you know, bear in mind that Arriva is a huge, huge company in sorry, huge company in this country. So from a national point of view, but it's also European, has European coverage as well. So you can imagine that launching a new values brand and values proposition on a business of, for a business across that scale, was huge and they were because we had such, not recommended that's the wrong word but so so many different divisions of marketing across that business because of the sheer size of the business and where we operated. There were times where myself and the team were involved in how the new values were communicated as that the right word how they looked, how they were positioned to be then going out and towards that was, et cetera. But, hands on heart, did we? Was it then on us to make sure that everybody understood them and could repeat them for me to move us? No, that actually sat more with internal comms and HR, so there was a slightly different way that it was done in that business Flipping over to here, being in open, open media now and I've been with the team here since I made this year, so still fairly new in the role we're at the point. We're actually at the point right now of where we're doing a huge piece of work on our brand guidelines and our values, because the business has got to an incredible point of growth.
Speaker 2:After seven plus years, we're nearly eight years old Now that we're almost readdressing. What do we stand for? What's important to us? We've got this incredible approach to. We've got three pillars I suppose actually probably the simplest way for me to explain it people, planet, place. So our people are the team, they are who make this business what it is and have made it a success to date. And summary Place is where we operate, so where you'll find open screens and it's really considered as to why we're going to certain cities, towns, etc.
Speaker 2:And planet is about as a business, recognising we've got a responsibility to act and operate in a sustainable way. We were accredited with Beacore last year, with the first European out of home media owner to have received that accolade, which is amazing. But what it's got us thinking because of how fast growth has been over the last seven plus years, including through COVID. Let's not forget that that was a real challenge and we've got to where we've got, we've almost got to the point. Now it's like, right, okay, we need to actually really think about.
Speaker 2:We've got people, planet places, our pillars, but what does that mean? What do we stand for? And if you were to see an open media logo somewhere or to read an article about us or to speak to one of our team here our sales team or our operations team would you know what we're about as a business. So we're having a complete not refresh, it's probably the wrong word for a review and getting the full team involved in that, because we've recognised maybe now is the right time to really actually put down onto paper thinking about what you said earlier on, actually to work together to put down onto paper what we stand for. And as we continue to grow, because that is happening, there's incredible growth funds for the next 12, 18 months and beyond that, everybody understands what we're striving to do and what we're about and that actually, that project is sitting. Coming back to your point about the marketing team, that project is sitting within my team and it's being led by our brilliant marketer Manager here, natalie.
Speaker 1:I understand why it sits in that space, because the visual identity of a brand obviously gets well it should. It doesn't always in the always case, but it should get influenced by the purpose and values and the words behind the brand and all decision making from that perspective should be talked about saying are we achieving X in that particular social post or are we achieving this in an event, a trade event we're going to? Whatever it is that you do into that. Those conversations should be happening. Sometimes they don't. It's just oh, can you do this, can you do that? Can you add this? Can you add another bullet point?
Speaker 1:Sales directors said we need to add this and actually it just becomes an amalgamation of stuff. But actually we forget the purpose of what we're trying to portray. But when a brand is delivered well visually and tonally and all those types of things through, values go great. But then if someone phones in for an inquiry or drops an email or someone rude in customer service, all what you've said is deemed a lie and falls apart. So it's got to be broader than marketing. Ultimately it sits your mark doesn't, like you say, because it comes and communication. But communication is across all the business and all departments, isn't it? So everyone's behind it and celebrates it.
Speaker 2:And I think you're so right.
Speaker 2:If, as part of this project, we do end up getting to the point of, I don't know, we change the logo, for example, and we change the strap line of the business 100% to how that is then conveyed onto websites or onto socials or onto letterheads or onto an email header, marketing will be involved in how that looks and to ensure that that consistency is there and that anything we're using from a template point of view, there's that brand and consistency, but adhering to what we say, that we do, we say that we do for our clients or for our people.
Speaker 2:That's on everyone here and I believe I do genuinely believe that within this business, there's complete recognition of that and that we're still a small team, a small but mighty team and, considering what's been achieved in the last seven plus years, I think it's making sure that, as we grow and we bring more people into the team, whatever happens with the open brand and whatever happens with our values, how they are developed or what we agree we stand for, regardless of where you are in the business, regardless of your role, regardless of time time save with those, regardless of where you sit in terms of offices, you get it and you can talk about it and you understand it. I think that's the task that, as part of the senior leadership team, I'll help to make sure that that's happening and that's going on across the full business.
Speaker 1:I think what's happened over time the experience I've had over 25 years is people have seen some of this in a big corporation. It's been stuck in some average frames on a wall somewhere with a view that everyone who walks past that corridor is going to stop and read them every day. Yeah, yeah, Well, that's not going to do anything, and sometimes it might be implemented a little bit firmer than that. But then your manager or a director doesn't behave within that value system. So then you go well, they're still pointless then. So you've actually got to see behavior happen by the leaders of a company and conversations around values and the purpose happen kind of daily not like a presentation in PowerPoint.
Speaker 1:Every day at nine o'clock we ring a bell and we go through them. It should just be oh, no, we can't do that. No, can we, because we need to be X or yeah. It sounds like a good deal that, but that would go against what we stand for.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that is that's a really interesting point, because our B Corp accreditation and the journey to get to B Corp at the back end of 2022, that has made us, continues to make us, will make us so accountable. So, okay, no, as a business, we maybe shouldn't be thinking about taking a particular campaign on because it doesn't fit with the B Corp pillars, it doesn't fit with what we have agreed to do and to deliver because of this, this unique position that we're now in. So that is, that is a real live example of what we say we do and what we're doing, and having to be having the two to be really joined up and be considered and everything that we are doing.
Speaker 1:Exactly, even down to like purchasing and stuff like that. I often say you know, someone might be responsible of buying pens in and you go well, where are you getting your pens from, where are they made, how far are they traveling? And so down to any decision like that or conversations around, you know people don't do print as much but a print room and then someone's saying, oh, is that sustainable paper more expensive?
Speaker 1:I'll go for no, no, you're going to have to go more expensive, because that is what we said we stand for. Otherwise you break the promise, and I mean that's what values, purposes, are about. It's ultimately saying we have a promise of ourselves and the world and our customers. This is what we start for. And then, like anything in life, friendship you have friends that probably share similar values, maybe more than interests or skills, because my four core friends have random jobs, very different jobs, but we all have. If we actually sat down well, we have quite similar values that we all stand for something. You know we're honest and genuine. We won't tell white lies as to why we can't make something. We just say it as it is. And so you unite and get stronger based on values, rather than forgetting about values and just maybe employing people, bring people who are just based on skill, because it could fall apart anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really good point and it's quite clear that you've got a close, a close knit, a small but close knit circle around you who you trust and you know that they get it. They get what you're about, you get what they're about, so you're comfortable. You're comfortable around them and to spend time with them talking, you wouldn't have to be second guessing anything you're trying to do, because you know you will get each other and you understand each other well, and I think that's really important. That comes down to, as you've said, having people who get your values and it's got similar values.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's nice for you to say, but I think it's probably because only four people like me Two and three.
Speaker 2:That for one minute.
Speaker 1:Hopefully it's broader than that. So talk about values there and obviously it sounds like you're going through a bit of that exercise at the company, which is fantastic, I believe. If they're delivered well and everyone's aware of them, they understand the importance. It can create innovation in the smallest of things. It gives people the freedom in a role to think about In my role, if we did this, we would be more X, which is what we're trying to achieve. So it'd be interesting to see how that journey plays out for you guys. But things like you know B-Cut we've got a few clients that are B-Cut tough thing to go through. Make sure you can achieve that standard, but once you've got it, you've got to stay at it and stay strong.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's not a given that just because you get the B-Cut that you stay the B-Cut, and you can see from the likes you stay in the B-Cut. You can see from the likes of. I think Brudog is one of the most well-documented ones, where some of the goings-on about business did cause issues around what they've received or how they've been recognised, and there's countless others, unfortunately, but it's an ongoing process. It's a marathon, not a sprint is probably the best way to simplify it in my own head Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes to get people on board with purpose about these old reference, another big company, just so they know the company. And then I'll say this is their purpose. And sometimes you read them out to people and they scoff at them and go, oh, but what? They don't do that? And I go, yeah, but if they didn't decide to write it, they can't turn the big ship around, can they? They've just, they've got to write it and then work towards it.
Speaker 1:Otherwise you'd go, well, don't write anything and we'll work towards something no one can understand because no one's written it down. So first of all, you've got to say, well, that's a new us and we're going to get there. Like you say, it's a marathon, isn't it? Not a sprint? You can't just get there tomorrow. You've got the energy to get to where you want to get to. That's a good thing. So, just touching back on values, then, we've also talked a little bit about personal values, how that influences you as an individual, how that goes into business activity and day-to-day decision making. When you think about times where you might get slightly upset or frustrated by something, or slightly more happy and relaxed, why is it you think that happens in those instances, what are the types of things that might get you a bit more upset and angry and what are the things that make you more happy and relaxed?
Speaker 2:I was laughing at myself when I was considering this question from the pre-work that you gave me, david, before this. Maybe it comes down to one of my own personal values, being specifically around doing the best you can do, and working hard is probably the simplest way to describe it, because that's how you work hard and you're decent to people. Then success will come in one way or other, whether it's personal or professional. We've actually got quotes up in all of our offices that say work hard and be nice to people, which is the type of the famous Anthony Borough book, and I look at them and I completely agree Thumbs up if it aligns for me.
Speaker 2:On a personal level and you know I knew straight away that it would fit being here on the flip side of that, one of the things, two of the things that really really get my goat is sorry, terribly wish that and laziness in people. So when and this isn't about people not doing something because they genuinely cannot do it or there's a complete anxiety to want to do something, but particularly in the world of work, I cannot abide laziness or almost shaking your responsibility or something that's been asked of you or that you've been encouraged or given the opportunity to get involved in. Probably going around the house is a little bit on that one, but that really does make me, when it's noticeable laziness, just the sake of people maybe can't be bothered, and you mentioned before around. I think you referred to it is when you're talking about your close friend circle and Lies or that thing of if someone's being untruthful or you know. There's just no effect in my opinion.
Speaker 2:There really is no need to be untruthful or to tell, to tell lies and not something which, again, I'm sure all parents do it with my kids. I just say just don't bother lying about anything. The lie will always be get the live. I always grows so laziness and lies. Really getting a goat up and then probably on a more basic and possibly a more sort of human level, paying for fuel really, really annoys me because obviously it's hugely, hugely expensive and I know it's not a link to values at all, but just one of those things. You know you think God's a couple fuel, fuel in the car constantly and when the weather's, the weather's rubbish. So don't even talk to me about this summer.
Speaker 1:I'm saying about a bad summer.
Speaker 2:The, the, the sad, the winter sad will be kicking in early for everyone I think this year. Things that make me happy, that absolute sense of achievement. So I was. I was lucky enough to be put through my masters when I was with a river, which was which was absolutely brilliant, to have been able to do a MSE and management management practice through the Alliance Alliance business Alliance, manchester Business School sorry, I put my teeth in and that sense of achievement of getting that done because it was hard, it was academically hard and in terms of the time requirements that I needed to give to it, which was due through covered, which was required through cover. So obviously everybody knows how that affected people's lives and both in home and work life. So homeschooling and then my own level school and alongside work, that was, that was a real challenge but huge sense of achievement.
Speaker 2:So completion of anything, including getting through the to do list, generally makes me massively happy. And and yet really basic level things like we've talked about fitness before we started records and how important that is to both of our kind of daily routines and to our well being, that sense of achievement when you've done something, when you've done a great workout or when you've beaten a person will go. That's massive to me as well and I think I will always have that. What could we do differently? What would, what could we push on a so almost a bit of a striving for one to do better? And then the sun. On the flip side of the bad weather, the sunshine. Anything where I'm in the sun or I can, I can chill out and relax, makes me happy.
Speaker 1:Great stuff. So just read that phrase out. You said was on the wall.
Speaker 2:It says work hard and be nice to people, which I think is a mantra everybody can get on board with and it's absolutely the basis. I believe it's the basis for what we do and are about at Open, and it's in all of our offices. It's brilliant to see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's funny, isn't it? Because you read it and then I went back from the very start of this podcast where I listed like 22 career experiences, 12 volunteering, and that phrase you just read out is split between those two things. It sounded like your mum kind of celebrates those two areas in a life as well. So it's quite interesting that you're sat where you can look to the left and find a sign that kind of encapsulates. You know what you're about. Final thing then, before we go, of all things we've discussed today, or maybe something different that we've not got around to talking about, if you were going to pick out one value and pass it on to a younger person, whether that's family member, kids, someone at work don't have to say who it is, but which one would you pick out and say look, just, if anything, take this one away and celebrate it the best you possibly can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and this is something which I am very aware of and have regular conversations, sometimes at their sort of behest, with my two children and it's got to be about genuinely wanting to do the best, wanting excellence for yourself.
Speaker 2:So, in whatever format is, whether it's on a personal level, when you're personal, or a professional level for me, with the kids because of their ages it's very much about that really obvious thing but important thing of trying hard and really pushing yourself when you're in school, taking that into a you talked about young people taking that into a young person's advice when you think about people going into the world. Work is genuinely about putting yourself out your comfort zone a little bit, putting your hands up if you've got ideas, thinking proactively but genuinely wanting to do well and thinking about how can I do well, how can I be great and move on and get recognised in my work or be a good friend. Coming back to our point before, david was about close enough friends and how they look after each other. So for me, it is that thing of having awareness of the importance of wanting to do the best and wanting your own personal excellence is probably how I would summarise it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, determination isn't it, and you know if you look over time it's bold and the brave that generally get somewhere. You know you could have intelligence in a particular subject. But if you're not bold and brave and willing to challenge yourself sometimes you don't get as far as maybe you should have, and so I think it's really important that you know it's kind of a continual improvement and I always say let's just try and be a better version of what we were the day before as a business. So we know we're moving forward in the right direction. In a world where people flick on the TV, see someone win a competition and become a millionaire, which seems like tapping about eight hours, you know it's good to hear that. You know your two children, 13 and eight, are getting educated on the fact that life is tough and you have to work hard to achieve things, and that happens for most people. Really, you don't become just an overnight success without battling through a few things.
Speaker 2:And thank you because your point there on people seeing what you see you sometimes think is the way it is. It's that easy, it's that point of everybody, not just young people but everyone recognising a lot of what you're seeing there in reality TV or what you're seeing out on social media is not real life and is not how your life will pan out without you in some way putting a little bit of hard work and effort in. And that's my big point to the kids around the more you put in the fact that you're willing to work hard and again we talked about it repeatedly be decent, be a decent human to people, but the more you're prepared to accept that you are going to have to work hard and it's on you that taking accountability and pay us the responsibility or link to this idea of an excellence above the excellence, it will pay off. It does pay off.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, I'm a big runner, so I run most days and I always say to be good at running. Guess what? I've got to do more running. I've got to do different types of running. I've got to be willing to get out of bed in the morning to do it. I can't be a good runner just jumping off a sofa and then expected to marathon the next day under three hours. It's not going to happen. So you've got to work hard at things to get to an end point, and I think sport and fitness kind of proves that often more than business does. To be fair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good mindset though your running mentality will make you will be helping you and will be massively assisting you in terms of you being an entrepreneur and a business owner, because that hand in hand mindset, that mentality of even when it's tough, you have to keep going, that's all linked. You're a great example of hard work pays off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, we don't do fitness, we get angry, so I'm a best fit for it. Well, thanks a lot for your time. Really good to chat with you and hear about your own personal values and how that influences your career to date. Best of luck with the slight refresh open. I hope that goes well and, yeah, thanks a lot.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for asking me to be a part of this as well and for asking questions and picking my brains.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us on today's episode. Make sure you're following us so you don't miss the next one. Feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. It's David O'Hernes. I'm always up for a chat. That's branding done and I'll see you next time.
