Branding. Done.
Dawn Creative goes through all elements of branding, from the basics through to the real nitty-gritty.
Each episode, we host a new guest, to speak about how different areas of branding have impacted their role, their business, and the projects they have worked on.
We'll speak to MD's, marketing managers, creatives, and people across various businesses to get a variety of viewpoints on why branding, and all the elements within it, are so important.
Branding. Done.
Building a strong brand with Total Fitness's Kerry Curtis
In this episode, we speak to Kerry Curtis, the Brand Development Director at Total Fitness about building a successful fitness brand. Kerry shares how they shifted from traditional marketing to a holistic brand-focused approach that touches every part of the business. Learn how Total Fitness incorporates its brand strategy in everything, from board decisions to the gym floor, including their recent venture into a women's gym. It's not just about logos and slogans; it's about infusing genuine values into the core of a fitness empire.
Taking a look at Total Fitness's story since 2018, Kerry emphasises the importance of people, culture, and values in standing out in a crowded market. Gain insights into creating a sense of belonging in their facilities and staying innovative to connect with specific customer groups. Kerry's thoughts on navigating the ups and downs of gym memberships and how Total Fitness sets itself apart during high-demand times provide valuable lessons in brand uniqueness.
In our wrap-up, Kerry and I discuss the changing trends in fitness marketing. We move beyond the typical "new year, new me" campaigns, exploring the impact of promoting a sustainable and inclusive fitness journey throughout the year. It's about celebrating small victories and motivating individuals to "feel the moment." Then, it's over to you to guess which is the lie in her "two truths and a lie" (Dave got it wrong).
Today we have Kerry Kershnasal, brand Development Director at Total Fitness. All those 15 years in marketing. Kerry previously worked for Radisson Hotel Group and Manchester Airport Group. Today we'll speak to Kerry about all things marketing within the fitness industry, such as how to stand out in such a competitive set-set. Where marketing comes in and where it should come in, we're making wider business decisions. So, without further ado, please welcome Kerry Jertis. So, kerry, nice to meet you. You're really excited about this particular episode. Obviously a well-known brand and fitness, so that appeals to me. I love fitness and I've done branding for over 26 years, so it's kind of the perfect match, perfect conversation. So, yeah, thanks for having us. Everything well with you. Yes, all good, thank you, great stuff, right? So what's your start then? So do you want to give everyone a little bit of an introduction? Obviously, I'm sure they're all aware of the brand, but who you are? A little bit what you do at Total Fitness at the moment. Just a rough summary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure so. Kerry Kertis, Brand Development Director at Total Fitness. I have been with Total Fitness since 2018. So started originally as head of marketing, welcomed product in 2021, so more control of the peas, which is fantastic for a marketer, and sort of made the step to a director last summer actually. So, yeah, it's been a fantastic journey ups and downs. Obviously, working for a fitness brand with COVID was really interesting, but yeah, it's been great. My sort of responsibility is to drive the brand equity of Total Fitness. We are a fantastic brand. We have 15 health clubs, extremely large, larger than the north of England and also Wales as well Massive spaces, lots of variety in there. We are very close to 100,000 members. So my role is drive brand equity. I have responsibility for products, all the marketing channels and a lot of the research projects we do.
Speaker 1:Okay, obviously your roles have changed slightly and different levels of responsibility and things like that. I think the biggest shift in, if we're looking at titles, let's say, is from, like, marketing led titles to a brand led title. What's the shift been for you in that? Has it been a distinct difference in what you're looking at compared to what you might have looked under a marketing title?
Speaker 2:It's been great really, but it has been a journey. I think I'm very passionate that marketing should have a seat at the table for all different elements because they're the custodians of the customer, so it's things like price. They should be at the seat of the table there. Products Sometimes marketing can become such promotion focus. That's definitely how it's operated in the fitness industry in the past. So marketing is just seen as sort of like door posters for one of a better phrase or driving one form of transaction.
Speaker 2:But the shift for me has having an impact and influence internally to have that seat at the table. So I sit on the board, which is fantastic and it's having a brand focused, customer centric, focused across everything now and I think we talk a little bit around sort of employee brand later on, but that's been fantastic in itself. So sort of my role shift is bringing things like product God. I'm doing some fantastic stuff at the moment in terms of looking at property search, so working with our head of facilities and engineering. So it's great to have that broader focus and influence across the business.
Speaker 1:So obviously that's board level, which is great, your brand development director. So there's no one else on the board under marketing specifically, but the classic that role is that plus the brand as a whole.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, great, I mean it's something I'm arguing just generally that either creative or brand type Idea should be at a higher level within an organization. That'll deliver better performing companies, because you're looking at the brand as a whole rather than it being associated to something that marketing do. Yes, and, like I said, we get promotions or a really campaign. Yeah, all great, all needs to do and we need to communicate to our audience, but at the same time, a brand can impact every single part of the business, which sounds like that's what you're getting involved in more, and I'm a big believer in that. So it's fantastic that you sat on the board at a big brand and can influence it at that level. Really, really good to hear.
Speaker 1:What do you think the biggest changes have been? Really, then? You know, as now, that you get involved in things like property, potentially there, which again is still brand related. Most of all, it's got nothing to do with the marketing aspect of it. But what's your take on getting involved in other areas of the business from a brand perspective and how do you kind of see that still impacting the marketing team? How do you feed that back in?
Speaker 2:It's great because it's right from sort of the conception point for anything that we've done. Our approach is very much started with insight, so just being there when those initial conversations happen to, then seeing it right through to we've just made. A great example would be our women's gym. So in our women's gym in Whitefield, which we opened at the beginning of this month, that concept started a couple of years ago right from the beginning. So commissioned a really fantastic piece of research and then took it all the way through from you know, build what needs to go in there, how do we develop the product itself. So, working with fitness suppliers, so stuff that sort of marketing wouldn't necessarily get involved in. But it means that everything is completely aligned right from the beginning to the final output and therefore how we talk about the product, how we sell the product is all aligned. So it's just fantastic and it allows things to happen a little bit quicker in my experience, because everybody knows what you're aiming for right from the beginning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, fantastic. Yeah, big believer in all of what you've just said and, like I say, it's refreshing and good to hear that a brand like Tail of Fitness is actually backing that as well and giving someone like yourself the responsibility to drive that forward. We're going to get into more detail about the role of brand and things like that, but something starting to do on these podcasts is just to get a little bit more insight into yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you'll have heard of the game Two Truth and a Lie. Yeah, so we're going to, we're going to run that by you. Yeah, you're going to give us three things, and one of which is the lie. We'll leave it at that, we'll move back into your role at Total Fitness and at the end we'll uncover the lie. That's OK with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, yeah. So do you want to hit us?
Speaker 1:with those three people. So you might work this out.
Speaker 2:All right, so three things for you to guess. So I've walked on fire. I used to be a goth and I got kicked out of Graceland.
Speaker 1:Oh right, ok, so I'm going very off-piste.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, quite different. I guess they're not all links. Ok, well, we'll leave that with the people listening in. They can have a bit of a guess and obviously, people who know you might be able to work that out and then we'll come back to it at the end then. So, going back to Total Fitness, you mentioned a little bit about the growth and some of the numbers close to 100,000 members that you'd say. What do you think are the key component parts of growing a brand like that? You know we often hear someone say, oh no, but that's McDonald's or that Starbucks. But those brands have one coffee shop or a starting point, not brands don't just generally arrive on the planet out of nowhere or some big beast. What do you think are the key things to growing a brand like that and getting it to that size and scale and that success over a long period of time?
Speaker 2:Sure, I mean, I guess it hasn't always been sort of a really clear line trajectory. Unfortunately, it's been a very rocky road for Total Fitness in the past. I mean, when I started in 2018, it was a bit of a turnaround and role. There was a new C-suite, a new senior leadership team. So it was a turnaround that we walked into five, six years ago. But ultimately, this business is 30 years old and it started with a fantastic purpose. It was built with just some fantastic intentions of the biggest, best possible product for the lowest possible price, and there's some great stuff right there from 30 years ago that we look back now and go wow, the actual fundamentals and why this business existed. Everybody is better, fitter. It's as true now as it was then. So we started from a really good position.
Speaker 2:There's been ups and downs along the way and, from my sort of tenure in the role, it's hard to put it down to one thing, because it's absolutely everything but the main element and I've been so privileged to work on our employer brand I don't even think it was two years ago now actually but it's the people I mean.
Speaker 2:We are a people focused business. We've worked significantly on our values and our culture and it's one of the big differentiators Did some work on our brand, our master brand, last year and you know people love coming to our gym because it's staffed and the people are there, People just like me. People have that feeling of like community which when you walk into one of the sites you know our Wilms are one it's about 140,000 square foot, so it's massive indoor running tracks, but somehow there's still a sense of community that's generated there and it's a there's no sort of feeling of pretension or, you know, uncomfortability that can be seen sometimes with some of the other brands, but it's this sort of, you know, people focused, everyone wants to do the right thing, Everyone's in the right place and it's a place you can walk into and do something you never thought you could do before and that's always quite a nice place to walk into.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure you mentioned the Wilms there one. Obviously, I'm nearby so I know it. So my mum is a loyal member. She goes three or four times a week without fail, so she loves it. She's an advocate.
Speaker 1:But it's a big facility and obviously they're not all maybe that big, but they're still of a decent size and that is a huge part of the product, isn't it? And over the years the expectation for your gym or your facilities for me is getting greater and greater and you're getting lots of variety, whether it's cutting into smaller bits of exercise. They're being very niche, you know, like artists or yoga, specific classes and clubs or small hip classes, specific boutique gyms, lots of different competition. But the standard of what you'd have expected 20 years ago was just so it'll do. It's got some weight machines or it's got whatever it needs. The standard is expected to be a lot higher, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Across the board? How do you go about trying to keep and maintain? Obviously you've got to make good profits. You've got to be able to reinvest it at the right time. How's that a challenge for you, especially like the Wilms, such a big site, you know, over five years it could feel out of date, couldn't it Quite quickly in the world that we live in. How much of a challenge is that across the suite of the gyms that you've got?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I guess I mean where we still sit in the mid-market. As I said, we're not the cheapest. We're certainly not the most premium operator. We have a really wide variety of customer from, you know, zero years old up until 80. And whilst we have an ongoing CapEx investment programme, we find that sort of our key and why people keep coming back and we've got a fantastic stick tenure so people stay with us for just under three years on average.
Speaker 2:It's that ability to we're blessed by size. Get on a piece of kit, have a seamless workout, do all the right things that this sort of shiny, fancy brands and, you know, innovation led by suppliers has got a place in the market. But we really focus on just coming in, make sure you can get that workout done, feel as easy as possible and get what you need from it. And I think the innovations that we're doing is very much around specific customer segments. So talked a little bit already around the women's gym.
Speaker 2:So it was a big focus for us this year and really excited to just launched it in Whitefield and that is a smaller space for us, so it's a smaller one. You don't have to be a member to come or you can bolt on your existing membership if you are one with us. And just by the nature of it is brand new. That's a little bit shiny and you know it won't always be so shiny, but at the pure roots of it and why we've designed it is to meet customer needs. So that's got a lot more longevity than I feel personally. A sort of shiny, really trend focus kit which you know hasn't got a lot of longevity in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no shock. With January just ended, it's first of all today. Obviously, it would have been a busy period for all gyms, gyms and classes, and that of all evolved, I'd say, even more so maybe since the pandemic. You know little boutique gyms popping up in towns and villages because people are at home, maybe working, so actually they can just nip around the corner. None of them direct competition for you, but might take the odd person. When it comes to everyone going right.
Speaker 1:When Christmas is out the way, it's January. We need to go for it. You're all competing for an individual who may want to get fit at that point, yeah, or maybe want to switch from one gym to another if they're already, you know, keeping themselves in shape. How do you try and approach it to think the thing? How do we cut through the noise there? Do you need to do anything to think the different or do you just think well, some of them are just not in our direct competition, so you don't have to worry about them. We're competing with the people we compete against, and that's kind of the share that we need to go for. How do you all kind of come across with ideas and brainstorm and reinvent it every January, really isn't it. It's kind of a consistent How's that been this year, years gone by.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know, coming at it from me I mean I'm sort of from the previously no fitness experience. I'm in the hospitality sector, which was great when I walked into the business because I was like, oh God, why? You know, this sort of creative in the fitness industry can be quite intimidating potentially. It certainly was that way lots of new year, new me, all those kind of messages out in January and I thought, you know, because I wasn't from the fitness industry, not at all interested in fitness. Actually, at that point, what can somebody make it really easy for me to understand why I should even do this? Why on earth should I get up in the morning in the dark and cold, you know, and feel rubbish in the worst month of the year and come into the gym and you know as lots of like, push yourself, go harder, and that was the first thing we changed, really of sort of okay, well, how can you make it really explicit If you do this exercise, you'll be able to do this at home.
Speaker 2:Functionally, this is just worth it and it's a little bit deeper, richer and more sustainable than something quite short term. So, for example, this year our campaign is is feel the moment, and we're trying to really express with that the, the feeling, that sentiment that whatever you do, that that nice feeling of accomplishment, of possibility, of like I didn't think I could do that before, I couldn't lift that weight, and now just done it, and that looks really different for everybody. That might even be just walking in the door for somebody, or it might be hitting a personal best or just going for a swim or even making a new friend. So we are not so focused on either the aesthetic or, like hardcore, go for it. You know, fitness it's whatever that means to you.
Speaker 2:And we have sort of seasonally seen, you know, january, january is and has been the most popular time in the fitness industry for new joiners, but that's really getting quite consistent throughout the rest of the year now. Because I feel there's less of a self of fitness now that there was, you know, 10 years ago and longer, where you really had to strong arm people into to get a membership and do something. That's ultimately not very nice and not very fun. But with sort of the big macro changes we've seen in people's lifestyles, even further propelled by COVID it's, it's sort of a less of a sell and therefore the demand is pretty much all throughout the year. And the younger generation are a lot more in string, intrinsically motivated, and then perhaps some of the you know other generations that have come before. So before it's been why. Why do fitness now? It's, why do fitness with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, nobody's interested in. Take on it that I think a lot of the campaigns, like you say, probably playing on a little bit of guilt, new years, resolution, that type of stuff that has got to happen in that given month and I'm of a view that anything can start at any point in the year, whether that's fitness or project at work or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:It doesn't really matter when it is. Why would you hold back three weeks, four weeks or something that you could start today? So it's nice to hear that a different approach. And I think historically there's been those rushes in January and then a big drop off of people then canceling memberships and things like that. So it's good that you're getting momentum throughout the year Instead of just that that January push and again doing. Looking at what everyone is saying and you know we're big believers of it then saying, okay, they're saying all saying that we're going to say something different, a different narrative, and by doing that in itself you're creating a path for people to recognize what it is that you stand for.
Speaker 1:It kind of taps into your community, feel that you mentioned as well as like a campaign, is more about just feeling the moment in time, whatever that might be, and people vary from day to day, no matter how fit you absolutely. Just a bad day. You just don't feel it, you know, and then the next day you feel better again. So it's about picking those moments and those small wins, isn't it for each individual?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, so it is. It's short term moments, but also longer term moments, because we position very much being there for fitness moments throughout your life. So you know, as I say, from nought you know, babies up until 80 years old is our membership base, which is quite different to some of our competitors, and it's that what do you need in this particular moment, whether that's today, on the 1st of February, or actually at that particular point in your life rehabilitation, had a baby, had an injury, you know, or just starting out. So there's, yeah, there's lots to lots to go after.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, fantastic. So a brand being a brand, I think sometimes people get confused by the word. Unfortunately it's one of those words that gets used a lot now well, misplaced, I think most people we come across assume a brand is low go and colors and you know a very basic level and it's all identity driven and we obviously educate around the fact that we'll know you need to have something under the bonnet, like a purpose and values and things like that. And again, some people have seen them in their job roles and think, oh, it's a waste of time Because they don't get implemented properly. That's the problem.
Speaker 1:And so many big companies do the exercise and then just leave them in some frames in a corridor or something like that and expect people to change their behavior with your brand and behind the walls as such. So you can have an outward facing brand and identity. You can say loads of great stuff, but then someone could phone, make a booking, come to the facilities, that's got to follow through and the people that are delivering, that are the people that you know are employed by the total fitness brand and, like yourself, driving it forward. How is the employer brand side of things? How? I'm sure we take it seriously. But how does it play out on a kind of day to day, week to week basis within the total fitness brand?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was just such a great project to work on and, as I sort of previously mentioned, when I joined the company, the new CEO put together senior leadership team and the biggest challenge of the senior leadership team was the cultural change. I mean, one of the first things Sophia, ceo, and Andrea I had a head of people worked on was implementing the values within the company. So we started with those values. That was a complete grounding of our sort of turnaround story effectively. And then from there we were in a really good position where we both so our employer brand work and our consumer brand work were happening in parallel, which meant they were so interlinked. So we've kind of got our corporate reputation consumer and employer all going in the same direction. So our promise to employers is more as possible and our promise to customers is a space, is an opportunity, it's a feat to achieve more than you thought possible. So how does that come to life day to day? Is it's got us really clear in some of the decisions that we make really clear on who's right for us as a business when anybody joins?
Speaker 2:I often take it for granted. Now, I think, because I'm so, I've had the cool aid. I'm in it, don't realise that sometimes it is quite a cultural shift if you're coming from a different organisation. So we're very people first. We are very behavioural focused. We can tell very much if you're not necessarily right for us.
Speaker 2:So the recruitment procedure and how we advertise our roles, our career pages, all that type of stuff, the execution of things, is designed to try and repel people as much as it is to attract people, and our great people team do a fantastic job in sort of noticing that straight away. So people that come into the business stay with us a long time. We recruit and promote within so general managers within the business. We've got a fantastic progression programme called Elevate, so sort of recruiting our general managers from other roles within the business. So that really helps. So there's a bit of a nice feel within Total Fitness, which makes the implementation a lot of the things that we're trying to do easier. So it does live. It's been there for a fair few years and all we did last year with the employer brand is okay. What can we talk about externally now and what is special about us? How can we find out what that is? Because people have been with us a really long time.
Speaker 1:You used a great word, in my view within that as well, which was repel. Now, often I find people think their brand should appeal to everybody and ultimately you can employ probably anybody, as long as they've got some skills. And from what you've said, obviously and something I completely agree with is, if you don't really know what you stand for, you can't appeal to the right people ie customers or clients and then what you turn them as, and you can't necessarily recruit the right people, and the two need to come together again to strengthen the brand, and there are people and audiences that you need to put off. I'll often use Apple as an example, because it's a successful brand and probably one of the most popular on the planet. Over half the world hates it. That's fine. They don't have a problem with that. They know who they're appealing to, and that's important to know and then stay true to it.
Speaker 1:So obviously you're sat at the board. I believe it's a top down thing as well. If someone above you doesn't really follow some of the values and swerves them from time to time, why would it mean anything to the team? It means everyone can not bother with them. So then they become weaker over time when you don't have to get into what you say at board meetings. When you're at board meetings, do you find that they're referenced by everybody? Or are you kind of the champion that keeps bringing it back to values and purpose? Or have you got a good collective from the top as well?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely Very much from the top. Yeah, 100%. It's definitely not all me by any means. We are a fantastic team and obviously I'm very biased, but the senior leadership team have been in place for a really long time. We were hitting that five, six year mark when we all joined together. We all been through the trenches together, we did the turnaround, we did the culture changes, the post-COVID turnaround. So that just creates a really good sense of why we're here and what we stand for, to be honest. So it's absolutely everybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we noticed that in an award, a recent award, european Employer Brand Management Awards yeah, which you're a part of. People don't know it. They know names like EY, natwest, bt, 2e all involved in that. You did really well in those awards, which I think is testament to what you're saying, isn't it you know? It gives a sense of pride across the whole organisation, doesn't it? You know? If you're achieving things like that, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was fantastic and it was a great recognition. But you know it's not easy working in the fitness industry. It's not the most well paid, it's not the most glamorous, and you know people walk through the door and think it's going to be something that it's not. But and that comes into the whole repel thing Try and be quite honest around what it's actually like. You know we haven't got the most shiniest piece of equipment, necessarily. It might be. You know there's long hours and there's lots of adaptability needed, but actually so it's a really good place to work. It's really fun, there's lots of rewards there.
Speaker 2:We put an awful lot of emphasis on people's personal development as long side, their professional development. So that award was just a fantastic, like you know, well done for a job, well done, and it's everybody's absolutely. We've got 600 staff almost now as well, so every single person contributes and I think we were just in a great position. As I said, so doing both the consumer and employer brand work at exactly the same time has led to that. You know, really really tight alignment between the both. It's not, you know, this is just held by the people team, this is held by marketing and that's it, no one cares, they're so so aligned.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and obviously that award the title. In it it says brand management, which is everything a company does, you know, and it's getting people to understand the word brand properly. That replaces your whole business. That is every decision you make. You know which creates a stronger brand. But managing it is tough because it's people, it's graphical devices, campaigns, tone of voice from that side, you know, it's picking premises in the right location. All of that is related to the brand and you've got to make the right choices, haven't you? So it's a tough gig, but I'm sure you know lots of rewards for yourself out of it and shaping such a successful brand like Total Fitness. Really interesting to get the insights on all of what you've been doing and the fantastic career path that you're on. So we're best ender, aren't we really, with where we kind of started. So you gave us three things. Do you want to reveal which one of those is a lie?
Speaker 2:Do you have any guesses? What would you think would be a lie?
Speaker 1:Obviously, before we agreed to do this, I had a look at something. I saw something about. From Goff to Direct, or something, so I'm assuming that that's the true. So now it's between fire walking and being thrown out of Graceland. Either of them could be true. The Graceland one feels so weird, but I kind of think that must be true. Maybe the fire is the lie.
Speaker 2:Close, but not quite so. Although I have been to Graceland and I'm a big Elvis fan, I didn't get kicked out. So now I was just a very normal, well-behaved visitor. So yes, that one is the lie. I have walked on fire, so I'm a bit of. If anybody knows Tony Robbins, I'm a massive Tony Robbins advocate as well and one of his in people events. Last year you do a fire walk on the first evening, which was, yeah, I don't think I'll ever forget that which was quite fun. But yeah, sadly the lie is getting kicked out of Graceland.
Speaker 1:Oh, fair enough. Well, hopefully someone else has either guessed it or got it wrong, like myself. Really nice to chat with you and listen to some of the insights within Total Fitness of the brand and, obviously, your progression within the organization as well. And yeah, best of luck to you and thanks again.
Speaker 2:Thank you, dave, lovely to speak to you.
