Copywriting Strategies for OT Entrepreneurs with Krista Frahm

Discover How Copywriting Can Transform Your Business!

Are you an occupational therapy entrepreneur feeling stuck when it comes to marketing your services? 

In this episode of OTPreneur, Krista Frahm shares her journey from an OT without business know-how to a successful self-employed copywriter.

Learn how she overcame initial self-doubt, leveraged her clinical writing skills, and mastered the art of persuasive content. Tune in to uncover practical tips on blending therapy expertise with effective marketing strategies and leveraging tools like Chat GPT to spark ideas.

Listen in to explore how copywriting can elevate your OT business, navigate common pitfalls, and connect authentically with your audience.

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Thanks for tuning in! We'll see you next time

Transcript

0:00

Are you familiar with the term copywriting? Not as in the work is copyrighted, but as in someone who can help you ensure that the words on your website, flyers, and anywhere else you might share information is truly speaking to your target audience. If not, that's okay, because today we are welcoming Christa Fromm to the show to share with us all about copywriting and what she does as a copywriter with an OT background. Are you thinking about starting an occupational therapy business, but don't even know where to begin? Whether you're starting something on the side or going full time in your business, the OTpreneur Podcast is what you need. This show will help you get in the right mindset and give you actionable tips to go from just an idea to OTpreneur. Let's go. I'm Jason Davies, and joining me today to talk all things copywriting from an OT lens is Christa Fromm, owner of christa Frommagency.com. Christa, how are you doing today? I'm doing great. Thank you for having me here. Yeah. Absolutely. It's so great to have you joining us today. As you very well know, you and I have worked together a little bit over on some OT Schoolhouse emails and materials. Putt and and we had a chance to catch up at AOTA Inspire this past, what was that? March and got to have lunch together. That was very nice. But, today, I'm really excited to let you share your story as a copywriter with all the OT practitioners that are ready to start a business out there. You ready? I'm ready. Sounds good. Awesome. Well, first, because I had a difficult time coming up with even the working definition in my little intro that I just did. How do you define copywriting when maybe you're talking to a potential client or even just out talking to family and friends? It is kind of a tricky definition, which is interesting coming from occupational therapy, which is also completely misunderstood profession. Nobody knows what we do. So when I switched into copywriting, I just kept the theme going, and nobody knows what I do, and it's a hard profession to describe. But in general, the reason it's called copywriting is you're taking the words from your ideal client, their thoughts and their words, and you're copying those over to your marketing. And so you're putting their words on your sales pages, your emails, your website, etcetera. The other way I've heard it described is copywriting includes the words on the pages for those things, like your website, your emails, sales pages, or any marketing, you know, print marketing flyers too. Yeah. And actually, I wanted to ask you that. You know, in my intro, I think I said websites, flyers, anywhere else you might share information. But, for you personally, what have been some of the mediums that you have personally written copyright for? I've done a little bit of everything as I found my niche through copywriting, but primarily now I write emails. I write sales pages. I write the copy for ads that are on Instagram and Facebook. I try to really stick within the sales funnel copy, but I have also written just about everything, print flyers, workbooks, websites, even letters that go to donors for a nonprofit, just all sorts of different things. Okay. You know, I've worked with you really from that online business perspective, but it sounds like you've also have probably done working with, you know, more traditional OT outpatient, potentially, like, clinics and stuff like that. Is that correct? Yeah. I have worked with some outpatient clinics. Most of the obscure projects that I did, though, were for a nonprofit here locally because OT that point, we're just kind of doing anything and everything. But as far as business purposes, I really try to stick with online business owners. Thank you for defining copywriting a little bit. I hope that helps give everyone listening just a better idea of what we're talking about for the rest of the episode. And with that, I wanna ask you, how did you come to decide that, a, you wanted to start a business, and b, of all businesses out there, you landed on copywriting. How how did that come to be? It was quite the journey, honestly. And I did not start out thinking I was gonna start a business. That was probably the farthest thing from my mind that I wanted to do because I've never wanted to start a business. I didn't think about being an entrepreneur, which is a pretty common story from what I hear with OTs. We just kind of fall into it eventually when other things aren't working out. It really it started before COVID, but COVID was kind of the catalyst where I lost my job at the hospital because they had no no patients and no outpatient going and couldn't pay therapists. And then the home health agency I was working for shut down. And so suddenly, I had 0 jobs and also 2 kids at home who needed help with their education. And so when I looked at different I started looking at specialty Sarah, like what type of mobile practice could I start? But it didn't solve the core problem that I needed to be available for the kids and home with them. And so I started looking at online businesses and trying to figure out what could possibly work, or even remote jobs really was what I started with. And all of those ended up you're strapped to your desk from 9 to 5. Like, a lot of them, they have cameras that check on you to confirm your Earsdesk. And none of that sounded good to me whatsoever. And my priority was educating my kids during that time so that they didn't they didn't fall behind. You know, we could even, like, actually catch up in a lot of areas where they were behind. And the copywriting idea had been planted in my head a bit earlier when I was writing just about everything for the nonprofit school that one of my kids was going to. And I did not know what I was doing, but they just kept saying, you're a really good writer. Can you also write this? So I was doing blogs and emails and donor letters and essentially the entire launch for our fundraiser, all the social media. I just kept saying yes because, sure, why not? I can try that too. And then one of the parents made the comment, you write really great copy. And I didn't know what copy was. I didn't know what copywriting was. And so it sounded like a compliment, but it also sounded like she was telling me I copied this from somewhere. So I got slightly offended. Like, I didn't actually copy this. Like, I wrote it myself. And then she explained copy and copywriting, which then sent me down a Google search and had a bunch of ads come to me. And that's when I started realizing, oh, I can start a business, have flexibility, and work from home and do something completely different. And then that was kind of the beginning of it. And I never really went back to patient care after that. Yeah. And that's really interesting that you kind of fell into it. And and it's interesting because I've been in the online business space and the OT space now for, about 7 years, I think, if I count right. And I have come across very, very few copywriters. And as you might imagine, even fewer copywriters with an OT background. Mhmm. So as you were looking into this, like, did you have doubts, like, an OT and copywriting? Does that go together at all? Yes. Absolutely. I had competing thoughts because part of me was like, I can't do this because I don't have a marketing degree. I don't like, you guys have talked about on the podcast, I don't have an MBA, so I can't, like, run a business or give business advice. And but at the same time, I was like, I've got a master's degree. Like, I have a whole bunch of other knowledge. Surely I can write some of this better than somebody with just a high school diploma. So I kind of had both of those competing in my mind for which way I was gonna kind of judge myself. Like, was I extra capable or was I completely incapable of doing this? And then along the way, I ended up joining a program. And then I did find Jenny Gill, who's another OT copywriter, which kinda gave me conflicting thoughts again. I was like, oh, this is possible. And also, oh, no. Someone's already doing this. I can't possibly succeed here because somebody else is in this space, which you and I both know is completely ridiculous because there's more than enough room for lots and lots of people in every single niche. So I just had to get over that as a new business owner. Yeah. Absolutely. Right. And and every single person only has so much time, energy, and they also have their own personality. And and that is your business. That's everyone's business. Right? Like, there are many school based OT businesses out there online sharing information. There are other people helping OTs and OTAs start a business. You know, we're just one of many, and you're just one of many copywriters out there. Some you know OTA, some you don't know of, some aren't even out there yet, and they will be one day. And I don't know. You know, abundant mindset. Right? Yes. Yes. That took a while as a new business owner. And since I've been coaching people who are, like, creating new programs and helping them with their copy, I see that same theme show up. That scarcity and that fear of, like, somebody else is already doing this, or they're afraid to share any ideas because they're afraid of their ideas being taken by somebody else. Mhmm. But it's it's just part of the process, I think, part of the growth of starting a business. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So as you were kind of getting started, you talked a little bit about like not having that MBA, not having a marketing degree, but you also talked about some strengths. Right? Like you're an OT, you have a master's degree. And so as you were really diving into this, what strengths other than having that master's degree did you really lean into? I think just the fact that I enjoyed writing, and I had I really I had been copywriting for a while. I just didn't know that's what it was. Putt even before that, when I was working clinically, I didn't hate documentation. I kinda thought it was fun. Like, some of the daily notes were very boring, but when it came to justification letters OT really like going to bat and trying to get your client more days in rehab or specific equipment, I like, I loved writing those because you could really, like, dig in and tell the story and be really persuasive. And at my last job at the tiny hospital here, I remember a couple times towards towards the end where they were saying, like, oh, so and so's insurance is running out. They're saying we have to discharge, and it was completely inappropriate discharge. Like if you've worked inpatient, if any listeners worked inpatient, they know the ones where you're like, there's no way. They will come back within 24 hours because they fell at home. Like, this is just ridiculous. So I told the discharge planner, I was like, just hold on a second and send them my next two notes from our treatments. I was like, just give me a couple Jayson and then send them my notes for updates. And we ended up getting more time, but it was just Oh, nice. That I just loved thinking about, like, okay, who is reading this, and what do they need to know in order to make a change OT, like, take action? Which is exactly what I do now with sales copy and with emails. And you think about that one person reading OTA, and what do they need to know? What beliefs do you have to shift inside of them in order to get them to see things a different way? And and that can get complicated. It's really about knowing your audience. And I mean, I don't wanna get too much in-depth to the project that you and I did together, but we had a multiple email sequence that was going out to varied people. You know? Mhmm. We were sending out emails to people who weren't OTs, to people who were OTs of, you know, one day, to OT practitioners of 5 years, 10 years. And so it gets very complex. And I think just thinking about it from that perspective, what like, who's our audience? Right? Like, we always need to write to our audience. Like you said, if you're writing a daily note, your audience might be the insurance reviewer, whoever that might be. If you're working in the schools, heck, honestly, no one's ever reading the OTA, but, unless it goes to a lawsuit. But, yeah, always thinking about who's going to be your, your audience. And that's true at every step of the way, like from education early on through college and and now as practicing OT practitioners. You gotta understand your audience. Yeah. For sure. I didn't think anybody read our notes either truthfully in the hospital until I got a text from my friend one day who's who is the MD overseeing all the cases. And it had been a particularly, like, kind of interesting treatment. And she just texted and she said, I have tears streaming down my face because your note is so funny. She's like, I can just see this playing out in the room. And but kind of the goal of it wasn't like to, you know, mock the patient, but to say, like, we cannot let this person go home. Mhmm. Nothing about this is safe. Nothing is going right. Like, they are all over the wall. And Yeah. She did read OT, and I was like, oh, well, I didn't think you were gonna be the run to read it, but good to know you enjoyed it. That's funny, though, because you're talking about a OTP. But within copywriting for an online business, you humanizing, I think that's a big part of things. We often try to make ourselves look like the all knowing Jayson, and that can be in a a treatment note or in a sales page. Right? Like, I know everything. This is why you should buy from me. But in both instances, right, treatment OTP, online sales page, humanizing yourself a little bit, showing empathy, allowing people to kind of get to know you a little bit. I think that's really important. Yeah. Yeah. And getting them to feel the emotions connected with it too. You know, I could have just written the facts down, but whoever read the note would have been like, oh, okay. But to get them to really understand what was happening, I had to have them, like, kind of feel what went on during that treatment. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So alright. Everyone out there, as an OT practitioner, you've done documentation. You're ready to be a copywriter. Right? No. I'm just kidding. So, Jayson you had some experience with copywriting. You didn't even know about it. Obviously, you had experience with writing notes and stuff like that, as you just mentioned. But I'm sure that wasn't everything you needed. Mhmm. You kind of briefly teased that you did some sort of program. But what what did you when you sat down, what did you realize I need to learn more about? I definitely had to learn more about starting a business because I knew absolutely nothing. I am pretty sure we had, like, one class in OT school that talked about either starting a business or nontraditional OT. And I distinctly remember because, you know, you know everything when you're on OT school thinking, I don't need this information. All I wanna do is clock in, treat clients, clock OT, and, like, that's all I wanted to do with my career. So I I don't even know what the class was about because I did not pay any attention, so I needed to know everything about business. I don't have I don't have any family that are entrepreneurs that I know OTA, so I had to know everything about business and also what was copywriting like. Because now looking at everything I wrote before, I'm like, wow. That's, it was a good try, but it wasn't truly copywriting. You know? It was more storytelling. So I had to figure out the strategy Jayson even just online marketing in general, figure out how those pieces work together. Because you can write a blog, but if that blog doesn't have a point or a purpose, it's just fluff on the Internet. And so I had to learn kind of end to end what copywriting was in online marketing, and then how to start a business, how to create a website, like, all of the things. All the things. All the things. Yeah. So I did enroll in, like, a comprehensive program that was for starting a business and learning copywriting because that was really what I needed. I needed everything. Yeah. Yeah. And and those really go hand in hand. I think a lot of people, like, I'm gonna they they know what they wanna do, but they need to perfect that and then OT the same time start a business then. Gosh, it took I know with OT Schoolhouse, like, we were we started the podcast first, and we were running the podcast for about 2 years before we actually, like, turned it into an actual business. Like, it Mhmm. We were just it was really just a hobby. And then it finally became a business, and we had to learn all of that process. And Yeah. They're very different. Right? Learning how to copyright is very different from learning how to start a business. And they're 2 very different skills, but they have to overlap in order for you to be successful. And copywriting is very, very different from academic writing. You almost, like, one of the main things is you have to flip the triangle because we're taught to, like, start with this, like, big topic sentence and slowly narrow it down to the point and then get to the point at the end. But with copywriting, you have to turn that upside down, and you get to the point immediately on the page so that the people know what you're talking about and are interested. And then they'll read further down to kinda get more broad on the information and dig deeper. And so that's really hard for those of us who have been trained for so many years to write a different way. Yeah. I I am here right now, like, listening and learning right along with everyone listening to this podcast. That was definitely something that I needed today. So thank you, Krista, for sharing that. You're welcome. Good good tip. So Yeah. Alright. What does now your day to day look like as a self employed copywriter? Every day is a little bit different, which is, I think, good for me. But in general, I spend my morning with the kids because that's just what I found, especially with our older Jayson, that's where his cup gets filled up the most. If I'm Mhmm. On the computer and distracted first thing in the morning, he just his whole day can be off. And so it's like family first in the morning, and we have a good breakfast together and all of that. And then once they are out the door, because we're not homeschooling this year, once they're out the door to school, then I circle back, and I tend to, like, check-in on email, check-in on clients. Like, if for some ongoing clients, I kinda touch base on the performance of things, just see where we are. And then it's just a matter of, like, doing my marketing or writing, doing projects for clients depending on what's on the docket for the week. When I have a sales page week, like, that is pretty much all I work on. I don't do a lot of my own marketing. I just do the interviews for different clients. I write the copy. I refine the copy. I send it to the editor. I get it back from the editor and fix all the things I have to fix. And Yep. That those weeks are pretty consumed with, like, the actual writing. But then on a week where I don't have a project booked, that's when I work on my own business, my own marketing, and creating new resources for I took my target audience and all of that. And then, really, like, the other day, the kids had a birthday party on Friday evening. And so I could take that time and work during that time, which frees up different time during my week. So I like the flexibility of being able to work on Saturday or Sunday afternoon if I want to. And then maybe on a Tuesday, I drive for a field trip, and I'm not working at all during the day. So Yep. It's every day is very different. But in general, it's a lot of doing my own marketing, doing other people's marketing, learning, because I'm always trying to, like, get more information and keep updated on the market trends that are happening and things that are changing. How is AI impacting the copywriting world and your business specifically? I think 2023 was a rough year for copywriters because of Chat GPT primarily coming on scene. Mhmm. And a lot of businesses jumped onto it and thought, I will never have to hire a copywriter again. I can save all this money. And they started using it and pumping out, you know, blogs and emails and whatnot. And then they slowly started to realize that it wasn't resonating with their audience, or it was Putt, like, way off the wall Putt they got. And so some people have learned how to harness it a little bit and use it in their businesses, and other people have stepped away from it completely and Oh, wow. Are just going back to hiring a copywriter. Knowing you know, knowing that we might use it in our processes, but we're not using the output from it. And kinda going back to the nonprofit that I still volunteer with a lot, we've had a a new team take over a lot of the marketing because, like, I cannot personally do all of it for them because it's a much bigger business than when I started writing everything. And it's very apparent that a lot of the descriptions and event information is from chat tbt. And they're also struggling trying to figure out why people aren't, like, RSVP ing to the events and why they aren't jumping in and connecting with them. And I was like, well, I can tell you why. Yeah. Oh my goodness. The the the email headers that chat gpt gives are just the worst. Yeah. Like Yeah. I don't know who told it that it needs 3 different emojis and then every email heading OT, like, it's just ridiculous. But I have learned to harness it. You know, that is one thing Mhmm. That you mentioned that I have really learned to kind of use it. But you have to recognize that a response from chat gpt is never ready to publish. I'm sure you know that. But, for everyone listening, a chat gpt response is never ready to to hit publish on. And Mhmm. I I think it can do an okay draft, and it can be a great way to get ideas. Yes. But you really have to go in. I I thought it would cut down on my time to write something, and it really Jayson. Mhmm. But it has allowed me to get more ideas, I think. Yes. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. That's how I use it a lot. I never generate something and then send that to a client because it just wouldn't fly. Like and that's not what they're paying me for. Right? To use chat gpt for them. But it's a good way to kinda get ideas flowing. And then usually, I'll just close it completely, and I'll start writing. And I'm not using anything it told me, but it was just it was like a warm up exercise or something. Like Yeah. That works. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I tend to, like I'll I'll take whatever I have on on Chatuchit Batin. I'll just copy and paste it over to Grammarly, and then I'll just tear it apart and re re put it together. So, yeah, that's kinda my my workflow. So very cool. Moving forward, you know, you talked a little bit about your day to day. I know I found you over on LinkedIn. I think that's where I most connected with you. Is that more of your primary marketing world OT do you do multiple different ways for marketing OT what's your your thoughts on that? Yeah. It's evolved over time. I really started in all the OT Facebook groups and connected with a lot of people there. But as I've I've expanded kind of beyond just working with OTs to pull in other clinicians and medtech companies and just anything that's still, like, working towards improving dignity, independence, and quality of life. That's kind of my Oh, awesome. That's my filter that I put everything through. And if it meets that criteria or if it's promoting, you know, wellness and supporting OTP. S, then I'm kind of like, yes, you're my you are my ideal client. And, primarily, I do find people on LinkedIn, and I'm most active over there. I'm also on Instagram. It's just kristophrom agency, all one word. I just don't keep up with as much of, like, the video and the trending stuff. Yeah. You know? It's that's not my forte. And so I don't even try to do a lot over there. But LinkedIn is my primary primary spot that I hang out as far as social media. Yes. I I totally understand. I I wish more OTs OT practitioners would be on LinkedIn because I don't like the video aspect either. I don't like having to sit down on Canva. I don't get me wrong. I love Canva Mhmm. But I hate that I have to create a new Canva image for every single Instagram post. Like, you can't just sit down because you have a thought in your mind and put it out there. Mhmm. I mean, you can, but it's not gonna get the traction that what an image really does. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do not have the skill set for, like, graphic design whatsoever. Mhmm. Like, I I like to say I'm the least crafty OT that there ever was. I it's part of why I work with adults and not kids. So I really and that's an area where I've had to outsource in my business because it's just not my skill set. And I can waste hours and hours and hours trying. Or I can pay, like, a $100 and have somebody else do the job for me. And it's completely worth it for me. Yeah. I I just basically put all my ideas into either a note on my phone and then I transcribe it over to I use SocialBee for publishing. And then once it's on LinkedIn, that's when then I can say, okay, I have an assistant or someone who can take my LinkedIn Putt and turn them into Instagram posts. And so that's how I set up my marketing a little bit because I I have the biggest following on Instagram. Putt, again, it just takes more time for that. And I found that I can put stuff onto LinkedIn and let someone else turn that into Instagram content. That's been helpful for me. So Yeah. Which is really good advice for business owners is think about especially with content and copy, you can maybe start with a blog and write a blog. And then how can you let somebody else take pieces of that blog and turn it into all kinds of different marketing? Turn it into an email. Turn it into social media posts. You know, turn it into a reel if that's what you like to do instead of thinking new ideas everywhere all the time. Mhmm. Yeah. Focus on one area first. And then once you master that, expand a little bit slowly. Very slowly. Yeah. Alright. Well, as we get to wrapping up here, I do wanna ask you, as you started your business and and to where you are now, what's one thing that you wish you would have known before jumping into the world of owning a copywriting business? It's a good question. There's so many things I wish I would have known to narrow it down. I I think the biggest thing is related to just taking imperfect action. And I know you guys have talked about it on this podcast before, so it's kind of a theme. I was like, it sound it may sound redundant, but it's so true. But we're kinda people who end up in OT school are, like, high achievers. We're very good at a lot of different things. We love to get a pluses, not just a's, and have everything perfect. And then you shift into business, and you truly just have to, like, try something. And the way you find out if if it works is by putting it out into the world. And that's that was really hard for me to adjust to. But I guess I tried to shift it over into, almost treatment, like a treatment lens. It's like, okay. We think we know what we're doing with a client. We've done our assessment. We're pretty sure we know what will work. And then as you get started, you're you're testing OT, and you look and see, like, okay. Did that work OT was that, like, kind of a flop? And then you adjust and you try something different. And that doesn't feel bad to do. But somehow when we go for marketing, we feel like we have to get it right immediately on the first try OT creating a program. Like, you have to get it right the first time. But in reality, it's just that first couple weeks of treatment where you put it out there and you see how they respond, and then maybe you keep going if that was the right direction, or you shift a little bit a different direction. So I just wish I could have embraced that sooner to relax a little bit, maybe. Yeah. Because you can't get feedback for something you don't put out into the world. And so the only way that you can find out if something's gonna work is by putting it out there. You can talk about it all day long, but until you put it out there, you might get good feedback. You might get terrible feedback. Likelihood, you're gonna get a little bit of both, and that's gonna help you learn where to move forward from there. Most OTs are gonna get pretty good feedback on what they put out there because there's at least from what I found, there's probably outliers, but they're very, very passionate about their topic. They're highly educated, way more educated than they give themselves credit for, you know, because OTA love to dive in deep into their topic areas. And they're in my totally biased opinion, they're usually the most qualified person to be teaching on that topic and be bringing that out into the world to help people with online programs and stuff. And, usually, what I do is I say, look for the other people who are doing something similar who have zero credentials. Like, they read a book once, and now they're running this program. And when they look at that and they compare, usually, OTs and you know, OTPs OTs and OTAs are like, oh, yeah. I know way more than them. Like, yes. The only difference is they took action, and they put it out into the world. And you're worried about it still, so just put it into the world. Like, you're already ready. You have what it takes. And people need you, like, especially living rural. We live out in the middle of nowhere, kind of a health care desert. Like, people in our community need those specialty programs and offers and education that OTs have. So I'm just very passionate about wanting them to take action and, like, get it into the world and invest in marketing because that's often the difference is they they are very quiet about their program, and so nobody finds it. But if you get your message out there, then people can find you. So that's my soapbox. Yeah. I mean, you gotta put it out there, and you gotta put it out there effectively, especially once you once you have updated maybe your original program and you've gotten that feedback and you've you've put time and energy into updating it a little bit. Well, now you OTA do just as much, if not more of that marketing to make sure that more and more people can find it. So Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Get your first messy launch over with and then refine it and perfect it a little bit. Yeah. The first messy launch. I like that. Yep. Everyone has a first messy launch. In fact, you'll probably have a fur a messy 3rd or 4th launch, but that's okay because every time OT gets a little bit better. So Yes. Love it. Perfect. Alright, Chris. OTA, well, we're gonna wrap up OTA, but for anyone who is interested in learning more about you and about the copywriting that you do, where can they easily access your materials? Pretty much, I Mostly you. Yeah. Mostly mostly me. I mean, LinkedIn, like we talked about. Christophram, f r a h m. And then Instagram is Krista Fromm Agency. My website is Krista Fromm agency OT com. I mean, if you Google Krista Fromm or OT copywriter, you'll also find me. There's a lot of different ways to find me. And, yeah, reach out in the DMs or send me an email, whichever way is most comfortable for them. I'm happy to receive messages. Absolutely. And we will be sure to also link to, those outlets in our show notes. So make it easy for you right there in the show notes of the OTPreneur podcast. So, Christa, once again, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate you sharing a little bit about your story, about copywriting, a little bit about AI. We got into it. And, yeah, just great tips for anyone who wants to start a business, whether it's copywriting or not. Thank you. Really appreciate it. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. All right. One more time. I wanna say thank you to Christa for joining us OTA, And thank you for tuning in to the OTpreneur Podcast. We have a strong and mighty listenership here at the OTpreneur Podcast, and we are proud to call you one of our greatest OTpreneur supporters. Sarah, I just said OTpreneur a lot, but it's very true. We love you all as an OTpreneur supporter and we just love, helping you to make that incremental steps towards starting your business or growing your occupational therapy business. I hope you feel as though after today, you have a better understanding of copywriting and how it might impact your business. Whether you have an established business or you are just getting started, the right copy on your sales page, on your website, even the about me page and those flyers that maybe you sent home can definitely be something that increases not only your sales, but also the rapport and just the the general understanding that you have for your clients and that your clients have for you. It really makes a difference in the way that everyone understands one another and has a mutual respect, a mutual respect for one another. If you have any additional questions about copywriting, be sure to check out Christa's website over at christopheramagency.com OT check out the show notes for her socials as well as her website in case you don't remember it when you're thinking about it next time. So with that, thanks again for tuning in, and we'll catch you in the next episode and over OT OTPreneur. Remember, wherever you are on your OTpreneur journey, we are here to support you. Here at the OTpreneur podcast, we can't thank you enough for listening in today. If you're looking for a community of OT entrepreneurs, be sure to check out the website atotpreneur.com. At OTpreneur, OT means business. We'll see you next time.