Studio Sessions
Discussions about art and the creative process. New episodes every other week.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
Studio Sessions
48. What Happens When We Stop Believing Anything Is Possible?
We examine what happens when the feeling that "anything is possible" starts to fade from creative life. Starting with the mythology of Los Angeles and its role in manufacturing dreams, we dig into the shift from youthful ambition to adult pragmatism and what gets lost in that transition. The conversation explores how being surrounded by people chasing big goals creates an energy that's hard to replicate once life becomes more complicated.
We discuss the practical realities that erode creative optimism - mounting responsibilities, financial pressures, and the accumulated weight of meetings that don't pan out and projects that stall. But we also examine whether this decline is inevitable or if there are ways to maintain that sense of possibility through intentional community building and creative practice. The episode grapples with finding authentic creative energy in midlife and the challenge of sustaining ambitious work when the path forward feels less clear than it once did. -Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
And it had been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summons.
Speaker 2:Alright, what a rip. So you were talking about this idea that people don't seek out fame, and you kind of caught yourself and you went. Well, some people seek out fame. Yeah, yeah, and you went well.
Speaker 2:some people yeah out fame yeah, yeah, and so I was reading last night. It was talking about Los Angeles, and this is the McMurtry book roads, yep, yep, los Angeles is not a simple town. David Reif, labeling again, calls it the capital of the third world. It's true that it contains such a mixture of people, of peoples now, that coming into it is like coming into a country, rather the capital of the third world. It's true that it contains such a mixture of people, of peoples now, that coming into it is like coming into a country rather than a city.
Speaker 2:But my own experience with it has not been with its third worlds. My experience, to the extent I could arrange it, has been with the ultras, the great stars, directors, beauties, people who are not just first world but a stratum above the first world. The ultras are the people whose jobs it is to create desire on a global scale, desire in all those everywhere whom the movies touch. It's a compound desire for sex, for money, for glamour, beauty, style. La may have oil money, aerospace money, computer money in billions, but that's not why people go there. They go to LA for stars. The hope of being a star, or at least of seeing a star, still animates the multitudes in LA. That's the prospect that keeps alive a state of desire, desire on a global scale.
Speaker 2:So I, yeah, I was thinking about that and I was thinking about that through a more contemporary lens. This lens, this one, this book is about 26 years old now and I don't know if that's as true as it was, but I am interested, I'm interested to hear your thoughts. It's still why people go to la. I think a lot of that is the myth. La I think a lot of that is myth yeah, I mean there's, there is definitely.
Speaker 4:I mean I moved there, I mean I went to acting school and all that stuff. There's definitely an element of attention and, you know, wanting people to I don't know think you're impressive or that you're somebody, or that they're somebody or that you're, they're drawn to you. Um, there's something about, you know, if I make it as a successful screenwriter and I see my name up on the screen with my friends at the movie theater, I come back home to the Chicago area and we all go see it and all that stuff. Yeah, there's something very self-serving about that little fantasy, about what that means for the attention you get. Your ego, yeah, that sense of validation.
Speaker 2:What do you think about that idea of the people whose jobs it is to produce desire?
Speaker 4:I mean the first thing I thought of was back to the old century of the self, that industry coming out of um, things changing back then like what in the talking, the thirties, when things really started moving toward desire instead of needs. And yeah, I mean Hollywood is. I mean it's a great way to to cultivate that and to create media around, that thing in us that is interested or seeks out attention or material things. I mean just I think of the lifestyles of the Rich and Famous and that show was a trip and it was on when I was a kid. That was a very influential show, yeah. And then later on MTV Cribs, you're just seeing the lifestyles of these people and saying to yourself I want that and I want you know, uh, I think people watch paparazzi and the cameras flashing.
Speaker 4:They see them on talk shows and yeah, there's, there's something about that for sure. Uh, and then you know it's, it's just such a part of such a big part of a portion of mass media, whether it's tabloids magazines like people and us weekly, you know, you see the stuff you see at the newsstands, celebrity culture, um, you know there's tmz now. Um, I don't know, just all that stuff talking about like go ahead.
Speaker 4:Just the coverage. I think back when I was younger too, and it was what Paris Hilton was doing, and you know all that, all of that stuff do you think it's?
Speaker 2:when I read that I felt like that stuff. Do you think it's cause? When I read that I felt like that was a pretty outdated description and not the like? Obviously, desires are still manufactured on a pretty massive scale. We haven't moved away from that at all. You can honestly probably say it's gotten more fractured, but it's gotten more prevalent yeah in our culture, but it's almost been outsourced and maybe fractured is the best way to say it. It's no longer la centric, it's so la doesn't have a purpose anymore.
Speaker 2:LA kind of exists as this In my mind LA was this attempt where these people took these visionaries and I use that term not in a positive or negative sense, I just that's what the term like. The people who saw went, went to an area that was a blank canvas and saw something. Yeah, that could, could be construed in a positive or negative light and then they made it. La wasn't a place, it was an idea. Yeah, it was a myth. Yeah, made by people who understood. You talked about public relations, pr. That's. La was a town.
Speaker 2:Birth of pr yeah and they continued to grow it into. Yeah, the, this manufacturing hub for American desire. I mean that was our greatest export in a lot of ways. Was the desire to be like a celebrity or to like movies are the brands that come to mind that was the truest American export. Talk about oil or technology or anything like that. Culture was the biggest export, probably still is, and now it's almost been fractured. Social media has taken the place where you can live in Des Moines and still I mean yes, la, la is nice, the houses are nice, like the establishments are great, like there's a reason LA and New York are so prevalent and outside of America. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I would be interested to hear outside of America perspective on this too. I know we have a lot of viewers and especially there are a lot of listeners in Europe. And yeah, too, I know we have a lot of viewers and especially there are a lot of listeners in europe. And yeah, australia and things like that. I would, I would like like to hear a different perspective. But yeah, I mean, it seems like la is a town without a. It doesn't have an identity right now. Obviously there's still enough of an identity in that old world to sustain. But you know, you just mentioned TMZ and People Magazine and all these More legacy. Yeah, just I'm like dead, dead, dead. They just don't mean anything anymore. I don't think anybody's taking anything they read in People magazine seriously or anything they see on TMZ or you know. I mean go even broader. Like the media legacy. Media companies are people don't give a shit about anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm over here trying to think like what do we all generally think of LA, yeah, hollywood, all of that. And it's tough because there's to me, there's multiples right. There's the identity of California, there's the identity of LA, yeah, and then there's Hollywood's, there's multiples.
Speaker 2:Right, there's the identity of california, there's the identity of la, yeah, and then there's hollywood as well, see, and I I think of la and hollywood as pretty, pretty close, like the valley and I like where the production studios are, and well that's kind of my vision of yeah and then, obviously, you go a little bit more north and you think you start to think technology right so san francisco still has its.
Speaker 2:I think it has its foot firmly in two worlds, yeah, and then san diego is just kind of like this beautiful gem at the bottom. I don't know what this conversation, I don't know what will come from this, but it's just an idea that I thought was interesting to put out there, and we'll see if it's.
Speaker 4:I think, if anything there is, while things may have shifted, for what our collective understanding is of what LA offers, what its identity is, hollywood, all of that, I think there's something that you can't deny about the area is that there is a magnetism to Southern California, and it's a collection of everything from you know, serve, culture and the beach boys, um uh, part of being the center of desire, manufacturing desire is you're just going to get a lot, of, a lot of pop culture is going to happen with you being the backdrop. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that you're just built into the consciousness of almost every american right, even if they don't realize it yeah, there was something too like when I lived in los angeles, about like like being in the game yeah like you were.
Speaker 4:You were in it, and when I moved back to move to omaha not back because I hadn't lived here before, but the internet kind of made you feel like you're in the game because I can, I'm like, well, I can still work on my screenplays and I'm still talking to my manager and producers and all that stuff. But it was. It certainly was different.
Speaker 2:Well, you had to live in what Dallas, la or New York for decades. If you wanted to do, especially in kind of, I guess, the media world, if that's what you want to call it. It was the only you know. You're not going to make it. You're not going to become an actor in 1984 yeah living in omaha or in you know name any?
Speaker 4:yeah, I mean really in utah yeah, like salt lake city utah or something your best shot is even like denver or chicago, I would say yeah, chicago to a lesser extent, but and and that's only because things like second city steppenwolf, you know like there was enough stuff going on there to make it, uh, an option.
Speaker 2:But yes, yeah, why has la would you move again? I don't know where this is going. I'm just going to continue to dig in. I think something might come out of it. Yeah, would you move to LA today? Being LA being what it is now and your understanding being what it is now, you put yourself back in the shoes of when you were younger.
Speaker 4:I mean, my first instinct is no, but there's. You know, I visit there and there's definitely something, a connection with it and a curiosity of sort of like what combination of factors would make me really enjoy living there? I don't know that there are any, but I really like spending chunks of time there and there's a way I don't know, I think part of it is part of it why I enjoy it is because I don't live there. Yeah, it's like a little toe into the waters of what could have been, or the energy of the place, that sort of collective energy of everybody, from people who are maybe just seeking fame or attention to people that are really trying to make great work. There's something about feeling, that feeling of a lot of people arrived here to do something significant. Yeah, in their eyes, yes, right, and I'm not insignificant, not saying significant, that it's not significant um, in their eyes, yes, Right and uh, I'm not insignificant, not saying significant that it's not significant significant to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Again, that could be acquiring fame. It could be buying a Rolls Royce with their first you know, big royalty check from the record sales. It could be, um you know, making a Academy award winning film for a hundred thousand dollars you know making an Academy Award winning film for $100,000, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Maybe a more accurate description would be they went to fulfill a dream.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Or accomplish a dream.
Speaker 4:And obviously there's millions of people, obviously there's, you know, millions of people that live there that just you know, do what everybody does here. You know they go to the office job or they you know clean hotel rooms or they you know make, you know make food at a restaurant. You know there's, there's, there's all that going on there as well, but, and and I think, just the energy of California as well, there's just something about a bunch of people that went there because they were drawn to it Like it called to them it it were drawn to it Like it called to them it it. And I always think of it.
Speaker 4:You know, sort of in those layers, when I'm there, like when I'm down and you know, uh, down at the beach, manhattan beach or Venice, or whatever, I'm like you know California, like I get it, yeah. And then when I'm, you know, in parts of LA, where maybe I'm more connected to the music industry, with what I'm seeing or who I'm speaking with, or I'm driving by Dodger Stadium, or you're grabbing brunch in Silver Lake or something, you're like LA, I get it. This is a vibe. And then same thing with Hollywood, you know, like I worked on the Sony lot and I'm like. I like this feeling, I like these offices are all full of people who want to make movies and every time I'm there, I'm just constantly fighting the.
Speaker 2:Is this some sort of incepted reality? Or is this some sort of like? Have I been indoctrinated? Yeah, yes.
Speaker 4:Because of everything for me, from watching entertainment tonight to bonus content on a DVD, like those backlots.
Speaker 2:I mean I've gotten to the point where I'll watch. I mean they just reuse these things, these sound stages over and over. You watch any Warner Brothers Western and you're like, oh okay, that's the same from this.
Speaker 2:Any genre, get out of Western only, and you can start to see, okay, that's the same from this, right, yeah, any genre. Like get out of Western only. And you can start to see oh, I remember this set on this or I was using this B-movie here and it's so familiar, and those are obviously based on real locations. And then there's also on location shooting. You're like, oh, I recognize this, you have these fond memories of these scenes. And, yeah, you go to LA and you're like, oh, I recognize this, you have these fond memories of these scenes. Yeah, you go to LA and you're walking down the street and you're just like, oh, there's one.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, sunset Boulevard, the little office for the screenwriter, the lot office for the screenwriter and you see that all over California it's a very common, not for screenwriting in particular, but just the out outside office, yeah, like the old detective offices from like a raymond chandler adaptation or something. You're just like, oh man, that's like an old pi works out of that all over the place and there's just this amazing fondness and yeah, I'm just every time I walk down the street I'm just like is this genuine or is this? Have I just been indoctrinated to feel these emotions about this place? And personally I think I prefer San Francisco, I love Big Sur, carmel and San Diego is just this absolute gem, yep.
Speaker 4:I would take any of those over and I and I, yeah, and I would gravitate toward Los Angeles. I mean, I enjoyed my time in San Francisco and spent time in San Diego as well, and certainly like them. But, yeah, there's something and I think that speaks to me having. You know, I went to acting school. I grew up, you know, like you know, I gravitated toward the big Hollywood movies Star Wars, jurassic Park, terminator 2, like all that stuff. You know, I, I Terminator 2.
Speaker 2:LA yeah, right I.
Speaker 4:I mean I watched all the behind the scenes stuff and the documentaries about you know making it and um. You know I worked in. I worked in it not in film but in, in um, in show business, on the on the music and concert touring side, and there's just, there was just always something cool about feeling like I was contributing to all of that.
Speaker 4:Because, it was very idealistic and mythologized, and all that and a lot of that gets, sort of course, corrected when I'm sitting there going. I've worked for five weeks straight in a windowless room in Burbank for 14 hours a day. Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know like yeah, it's fine Cause I'm 27. You're like this is what the work is. I guess, I had kids, or my my, you know. You know, my my, she wasn't um Aaron, my wife um uh, girlfriend and then fiance when we lived in Los Angeles. Uh, you know, I'm like I literally would come home, go to bed, wake up and go back again, you know like this.
Speaker 2:This sounds strange. I have this image in my head of what. I have two distinct images in my head of what filmmaking is and like, obviously like at this point. I've been around the industry for yeah like it's. It's not this, you know, yeah, but in my head it. There's two distinct images and I'd love an opinion on this, because this might be, I might just be psycho, but it's winter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, going to a like broken down like loft area, I guess this is inspired by like new york, like the actor's studio, but it's, it's almost, I mean physical table reads yeah and like the middle of winter, it's like six o'clock at night and you have the the energy of the city has to be there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to have the energy going on of like, oh, I'll break away and I'll go grab a sandwich and then I'll walk back and it's winter and like maybe there's snow on the ground and you're going into this place and there's like a shitty coffee machine and you're doing these rehearsals for, like, you're just working through a script script and it's a group of people and there's just open energy and there's no like technology present or anything. You're just working towards this singular idea.
Speaker 2:That's one right, yep. And then on the other side, this is the other image in my head. It is the yeah, show up, it's 70 and sunny and your day job is literally show up to the studio. You know you break away at like one and grab 30 minutes of lunch while you're like discussing okay, how are we going to get this shot? We didn't get this in the morning and we need the. And you know you're just shooting through. You leave at like nine o'clock, eight o'clock, whatever. Their sun is still not down yet, but you know, you know, just california evening. Yeah, it has just something special to it. And yeah, you're driving away from the studio set and I have no like. I've never experienced either one of those things. I don't know where those come from, that you know. In my experience it is a lot more like the windowless room in the basement and you're like how do I get the date off of this drive?
Speaker 2:because we have to actually use this tomorrow, so we got to make sure this is backed up, or you know? Yeah, it's very.
Speaker 4:my experience is very different than that, but those are the two images in my head, and I mean, honestly, you know a lot, of a lot of my experience working in the concert stuff other than being in the windowless room, which wasn't terribly glamorous, like there was just something cool about.
Speaker 4:You know we, we'd go into the, we'd be in this, uh, rehearsal facility in Burbank and you know there'd be like, um, kind of uh, uh, a rehearsal in the rehearsal space.
Speaker 4:You know, so, you know, because it's a stage show, you know they have the, the, all, the, the, the lines taped on the floor of like where this the edges and this riser, and all this kind of stuff taped on the floor of like where this the edges and this riser, and all this kind of stuff. Um, and you'd go in and watch this rehearsal to just make sure that you were on the same page with what the performers were doing, and all that in relationship to the screen content that I was working on with my buddy Nick. And then when, like, rehearsal moves to the theater, and then you're like in the nokia theater or whatever theater you're in and you're like seeing your stuff on the screen and the lights and all that stuff comes together and then it's the end of a 14 hour day and you jump in the car and you're driving up the 101 to go home and it's yeah, dude, it is, it is there, is.
Speaker 2:I mean I think back on those times very fondly to have been like I am on my way to continuing to make bigger and bigger contributions to this machinery and and and, yeah, and and in a way where you know, I'm thinking about that sunny, just like, like sunset drive, where you just accomplished you accomplish like some sort of obvious progression towards your dream or your goal. Yeah, and it's just like the highest level of ecstasy you can, yeah, I mean you can experience as a human, and I haven't experienced that in. I mean, I don't know, this sounds really I'm not. I don't mean this in like a depressing way. I haven't experienced that in a while, though, like I distinctly remember. Um, I watched this video from this kid who graduated college yesterday.
Speaker 2:You know, it's just a weird YouTube. Somehow it pops up in your next video and I was like I don't know what this is. It was two minutes long or something.
Speaker 2:I was like, okay, I'll watch it. And I left the comment. I don't know the last time I've left a YouTube comment to be honest, I've replied to like a couple but I I mean I think I've maybe left two YouTube comments in my entire life and he was like I, just as of yesterday I graduated and I don't know what that did to me, but I was just like immediately took me back to how scary and free that felt. Yeah, and that feeling where you talk about like I remember the first time I got paid to take photos for something. Like the first time I got paid to do I guess it was pre-graduation Once, the first time I got paid to like edit or do something, but the first time I got paid for like my photo work was post-graduation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was just this. It was like sunset, music was playing, I had the windows down. I was just like this is as good as it gets, this is the peak of human existence. Yep, and obviously I've experienced that with personal things and you know, but something about that man you know you finish like you said you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're on the 101. Add that myth to it yeah. I'm sure it takes it like complete other love. I'm talking about like 440 or like I-65.
Speaker 4:Well, I'm like 27-ish years old and I'm this young and I'm in it, I'm in the middle of this. I mean I had a drive-on to the Universal lot and I got to go into Amblin because one of the companies they had a first look deal with was interested in a spec script that I had written. And I'm like, I'm like I'm walking into the place that Steven Spielberg like spends his days when he's here reading scripts and doing his thing, and I'm walking into that, that building on the lot to meet about a screenplay I wrote or I'm writing, and then I got to drive off the lot. You know, you get to drive on. I literally parked right out front from Amblin. I'm just like, you know, you just, it's just a thrill. I had a spec script that went out and, um, I got to drive onto the 20th century Fox lot and I'm like, walking by, this huge empire strikes back mural, and then I walk into the main building and like all the star Wars posters are up and I'm meeting with one of the.
Speaker 2:Oh, they do such a good job of cultivating. Oh yeah, and yeah.
Speaker 4:And putting it at the forefront. I and I would literally be like driving off the lot after a meeting like that going. I really blew that meeting, by the way. I was like that's where all my insecurity and lack of confidence came in. I didn't think I belonged. That's why you're sitting in my studio making a podcast.
Speaker 4:I was in that God you are with that VP and he he could just sense that you know the script that he read. And then the person that showed up there needed to be more time. I was just not ready for prime time. As far as just being in the room, this is what they talk about being good in the room. At least in that meeting I was not good in the room, you're dealing with some of the biggest alpha personalities in the room.
Speaker 2:Yeah, At least in that meeting I was not good in the room. You're dealing with some of the, you know, biggest alpha personalities in the world too.
Speaker 4:Well, but I had sort of like gotten farther along than I think I thought, than where I thought I was. I was like, holy shit, I'm driving on 20th Century Fox. They read my spec script and they want to meet with me, to feel me out for other stuff, like, yeah, this wasn't a good fit for us, we didn't buy it, but we want to see what your vibe is for other stuff I'm like eh.
Speaker 2:They're like, eh, not a great vibe, and that's what those meetings are.
Speaker 4:It is, how do we get a sense of who you are and your talent and what you know and don't know? And like we'll throw it's a job interview, almost like we're going to throw some questions at you and see how you handle them and and if you, you know, kind of crumble and or, or you know, don't really have answers or light us up like you know, like what do you like?
Speaker 2:what specifically do you remember from that?
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, oh yeah, I was in there after my spec came out and went out and they were, you know, they just have a lot of sci-fi properties. You know, these studios original draft of an adaptation of the book or whatever, and, um, I think I had put together a treatment for a book by the guy, uh, that guy, a short story by the guy who wrote this book called robopocalypse, and it was basically conrad's um, uh, heart of darkness, but it was, um, like in this dystopian heart of darkness meets, but it was. It was like these, like these nano robots that had gone rogue and all this stuff it was. It was a kind of a cool story and I had put together my take on it and I don't think I had to pitch it in the room, but but, like, it was one of those classic job interview things where this I forget his exact title, but he was VP of something and you know he was a higher up, high up executive at 20th century Fox.
Speaker 4:He's like, well, what you know? What sci-fi are you into? Cause he had read my script and then, um, and then this adaptation and I was, so I had spent so much time working on that spec screenplay based off of all the stuff that I had watched as a kid. But then, um, just my imagination, like literally looking like into the crystal ball of what might come, uh, based on everything that was going on at the time and in our existence, and, uh, I just like, I, I I didn't have an answer. So I was, I was sitting there going and I'm like, oh, I got to say something and the walking dead was big and I was watching that and the new episodes came out and I was like, well, I know it's not true sci-fi, but I've been watching a lot of the Walking Dead and it's just kind of straight-up horror. There's really no science fiction to it. In the sense that he was asking, and it was just this sort of thud of an answer.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he's like, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:And anything else. I think he was. By the way, that's a competitor studio.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think he was just genuinely thinking like this is a fertile mind. That's like reading really interesting sci-fi stuff or you know watching, you know obscure sci-fi movies, you know a combination of everything. So you know, like I want to know what you're into, not only because I'm interested just for myself to be turned on to new stuff, new interesting stuff, but it'd be cool to kind of understand some of the source material for these ideas that you came up with and the stuff that you've written and we make fun of these guys a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And this isn't true for all of them them, but some of them really do know their stuff yeah, they're in the position because they know their stuff very well yeah, they can sit there and recite xyz by x director. By da da da da da. You can sit there and be like some of these guys are idiots or whatever. Um, but some of them really do know their stuff and actually get there because they care.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I mean my whole I mean my whole mentality going into that, I think, was I can't believe this is happening, and just this sort of sense of I'm out of my league and I don't, I don't belong here, there wasn't.
Speaker 2:That's a recurring theme, isn't it?
Speaker 4:Because I'm just thinking about the clip, yeah, to just not give a shit, and that's yeah, that's been a struggle for me my whole life with with things, whether it was making new friends, talking to girls, anything that basically just sort of is. But then times where there's incredible confidence and self-assuredness with what I'm doing and then times where there was, and then something happened and completely crumbled it all. Yeah, uh, and I think that's a kind of a a normal path path. You know, I had a lot of arrogance and confidence as a young man and then had some pretty big failures in acting school, not because I just, you know, half-assed all my preparation and just didn't put the work in. Oddly enough, one of the things that crumbled my confidence was something that I prepared the most for, and then we failed.
Speaker 4:Things that crumbled my confidence was something that I prepared the most for, and then we failed a scene partner in a stage combat presentation for this um fight choreography certification that we all did in acting school and we I mean my scene partner and I practice this hours and hours every day and um, and it got botched in the middle of the presentation and I just lost it like I crumbled and uh, ended up walking off the stage, which you know, obviously, like even in a presentation, it was like holy shit, had that been like a play with, would he have just walked off the stage if this was in the middle of a play with a paying audience? Um, anyway, you don't have to go down that rabbit hole. So there was like, and those things kind of shake your foundation a little bit, you carry them with you and, um, and again, there were times where, going into making my short film at florida state, you know, like I knew exactly what I wanted. I like this shot. No, we're doing this, this here, tweaking like there was like no lack of confidence at all in that situation.
Speaker 4:But then, meeting at 20th century vox or whatever, like inside you're just this insecure, I don't belong here, or you know whatever. It is very strange. But, um, but going back to the original thing being in LA and driving off that lot, driving onto the lot, being amongst it all, having friends come in from out of town, and you're walking through Hollywood and the Walk of Fame or seeing my friends I mean, my friends were doing improv comedy or they were in a show or they did this and it's just like holy shit, we're all doing this.
Speaker 2:That's the biggest thing that I miss, and maybe part of this is youth. I mean, obviously I'm not saying like I'm old or whatever, um, and I do want to just put a mental pin in. There's two directions I think we can take where you just kind of left. I want to ask the question like when's the last time you've had that feeling? And then I also want to dive into.
Speaker 2:You said some of these core events can shake your foundation, and that kind of goes to something we talked about in pre-show, or it's like you have some people that are maybe not that old but, they feel much older in a in a older is probably not the most accurate term, but in a in a very negative sense Um, but where, where I wanted to, you know you talked about everybody's into something, everybody's doing something. Yeah, I miss that. Yeah, I feel like I don't have a lot of that in my life right now and they were like but they were doing it like.
Speaker 4:That's the thing, no, and like they weren't talking about it.
Speaker 2:I mean I mean that in in both ways, like. I feel like there's just not a lot of like, and part of that is just the people that I, you know. There's a certain level of uh, inauthentic that comes with some of that Maybe I do try to distance from. I don't like the way that that just sounded. I don't mean that in like a, but I think there's a level of like. I don't know we can explore that, but I I miss that level of like. I don't know we can explore that, but I miss that energy of everybody's pursuing something. Everybody's got a bunch of projects that they're pushing for. Everybody's in that state where it's like, okay, I got to do this and this. If you could get a few people around you that are pursuing that, it does crazy things for your competence and for your ability A hundred percent, Because you're going to soak that up and just carry that Like that's reality.
Speaker 2:And I feel like a lot of the I just you know, maybe part of it is an older thing, but I was having the thought last night. I'm like maybe I do need to just like try to associate with younger, with some not just younger, but get more young people around, Because there is that there's an interesting relationship, because there's a level of naivete that they don't know what they don't know. So there is a level of you look at that and you're like, oh well, that's, you know, tried that. But then there's also a level of that that is helpful, where we're a little bit jaded, I think, and we look at things and it's like, oh, I can't do that. It's like, no, you can, you just didn't try it this way, Right, and so, yeah, just trying to recapture some of that energy of just everybody's doing something.
Speaker 4:Everybody's got something going, Everybody's got, you know, one or two things on on on the burner and there are miss that so much, and it was great because people were trying to do stuff at a high level, they were invested in the craft and you know there's some. You know there's some vanity, that's there. There's some attention seeking, there's some materialism, you know there's. There's there's degrees of that, I think, in in all of that Um, but but it was just exciting to be like just to be around.
Speaker 4:You know, there there's certainly there were a few people where you kind of went, you know they're, they're a little, I don't know it's not working for them or it's not the right fit for them, but they, they're going to still live here and and, like, pursue work. You know more like a career, uh, you know, in the office, part of the Hollywood machinery, or you know, you know that kind of stuff, um, and and not that that is like some big step down or whatever, because there's lots of incredible people, from executives to lawyers to whatever that are all part of that machinery.
Speaker 2:And to put on a good performance, you have to have somebody that sets up the stage, Like there's but just to be around.
Speaker 4:You know, and again, that all that you know the the thing was is it was. It wasn't like it just started happening in la. I mean, I was in acting school with people that, like this is going to be my life, and you knew some of the people where it was like, well, they're going to move into something else or they're going to, you know, adapt me. I kind of shifted from acting more to writing, um, and then you're in film school and everybody there is passionately pursuing their careers as filmmakers. Uh, and then we all like the majority of us then moved to LA.
Speaker 4:So not only am I connected to my undergrad friends, but I'm connected to my grad friends and, um, you know, I have a close friend that I went to undergrad with and we were working together on the concert stuff and you're just sort of like riding that wave that really started when I was like 17 years old it's 10, just 10 years later you've been through, you know, six years of schooling. You've made a bunch of stuff, you know, even when, like, nick and I were in Vancouver working on so you Think you Can Dance Canada, we brought a Canon 7D Made the short film.
Speaker 4:Yeah, said to ourselves, we're going to make a short film based on an idea that he a story he told me, and we turned it into a short film and we would work 14 hours and then we would shoot in this historic hotel that we were staying in. In the hallways we covered a room in plastic. They were doing Evil Dead, the musical at the theater we were working at. So we borrowed a bunch of fake blood and covered the plastic that was all over this room in fake blood and we shot all this stuff. Then we went home and we edited it and then we submitted it to festivals and it got in and we made dvd screeners and I was like you know, and then we went on and made a short film like so this whole this whole thing.
Speaker 2:Where is that energy right now? Not not saying you don't have it or anything, but there's I mean, there's people listening and there's me thinking here I'm like, oh, that's like, yeah, that's just something that happens when you're younger or like I think I think there's a reason. It happens when you're younger, though, but I don't like I challenge the assumption that it's only that it can't be done when you're past, like people like to say, well, yeah, that was possible before I had a family or before I had kids, and I kind of think that part of that is just a. It's a really convenient way to let yourself off the hook, but then also also it's um, yeah, where's, where's that energy? How does that I?
Speaker 2:We watched, we watched, uh, before you know, last week or a couple weeks ago, we had the Nysap brothers on in the background and they're just. You know, it's like Casey and Van and you know all of like the Oscar and all of the little characters that have gone on to do like series or films, and it's Josh Safdie and Benny Safdie, and they're just like you know, literally you've got a video of Josh Safdie without a shirt, like helping them tear down a wall in a New York City studio. You've got, you know, benny Safdie, like carrying plywood, or you know, these are two of the best filmmakers that we have right now, american filmmakers that we have right now. And yeah, I mean just that, what, like, wasn't Greta Gerwig a part of that group? And I mean you just have all of this talent just doing. Everybody had some, everybody had something in the oven, everybody had something going at all times.
Speaker 2:I'm sure, yeah, and that just drives this. Oh, I got to do this, I gotta do like every anything's possible. Yeah, I miss that so fucking much. Yeah, it's great. I mean, like I want to cultivate. I want to call it we've talked about this before I want to cultivate. That so bad. And I know I'm just sitting here talking about it, complaining about it. But I really want to challenge that premise that like, well, we're, we're older now, and like I mean, obviously I don't have kids yet, you have kids, but I, I don't think that's, I don't think that's the factor, I think there's something else.
Speaker 4:It just becomes more difficult to well, I mean, I do think that there are pressures that mount, yes, and those pressures are self-inflicted. They are situational, and self-inflicted could be big purchases that you have a responsibility to see through whether it's a vehicle a home a lifestyle. And then, yes, kids and the time that is needed to be dedicated to them A spouse.
Speaker 4:Even just getting married is a whole new set of sort of responsibility. And then you have married yourself to the hopes and dreams of another person and you play a role in them achieving their hopes and dreams. You play a role in them achieving their hopes and dreams, and you have not only you know, you have their perspective on how it's going with what you're pursuing yeah, um, always in the back of your mind, yeah, and then maybe cultural expectations.
Speaker 4:You know, uh, the back to the desire thing you have. You know well, you're this old, you should have a.
Speaker 2:You talk about the in-laws all the time. You should have this.
Speaker 4:You should have this kind of savings, you should have this kind of retirement and I think for some people those forces move them toward doing more of what's expected of them. The more safe and responsible thing them, the more safe and responsible thing and um, and they move away from those, from that lifestyle of of pursuing something, a dream or whatever, at all costs.
Speaker 2:God, this is perfectly kind of melded the two topics that we um before we get too far away. When's the last time you feel like you felt that glowing, floating down the 101?
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Have you felt it in Omaha? Have you felt it since?
Speaker 4:I don't know that I felt it in Omaha as it relates to sort of my career. I mean, there's definitely times maybe it's not as potent or concentrated, but there's definitely times where I'm like, you know, I'm at the park with my kids and we went to the farmer's market and the bills are paid and yeah you know, like all that stuff where you're sort of like I think that's the same thing.
Speaker 2:And yeah, you know, like all that stuff where you're sort of like I think that's the same thing.
Speaker 4:I just think that the intensity of the feeling is it's just, it's a little different. You know, when I was at NAB in Las Vegas, there's a little bit of that. You're sort of like you know interesting. Sort of like you know, um, interesting, yeah, there's. You know, I'm with all my YouTuber friends, talking about like people who are pursuing it. Now, a couple of them have full-time jobs, a couple of them like that's, this is all they do, um, but you're sort of like with a pack of guys that are all back like in LA. You know, like they're all pursuing it and doing it to varying levels of intensity, but like it's their, it's their main thing, that they that occupies their emotional real estate, that they want to do all of that. So you have that and you kind of say to yourself you know walking, you know in a ghost town with a bunch of you know YouTubers that are really successful or whatever, and you kind of have those moments where you're like I kind of look, look at all this ground I've made into this world that I used to just watch as a fan, you know, before I really started making stuff.
Speaker 4:Um, you know, uh, I ran into Teppo Hapoya there and I remember watching his brother. I ran into Teppo Hapoya there and I remember watching his brother, maddie's videos in like 2016, going you can do this like that guy's. You know this and you just sort of that was part of my mental shift from trying to pursue screenwriting to having a new thing to sink my claws into, that felt, I don't know, more doable, less gate keptpt, um, uh, just just something that was possible to do on my terms without getting permission to do it. So I, you know, saw those guys and I'm like now I'm at NAB hugging you know his tempo because we were in Poland together and you're just sort of like I can, like, you know, I can make my way into these places through my work and the connections I have with my friends and the value I provide them, and they know this person, that person, all that.
Speaker 4:So there's a degree of it, but I don't know that I've had any feeling as intense as driving off of the 20th century Fox lot, of the universal lot, after like, like literally valeting my car you know where all the people that you, you know, watched and it's just, you're just like holy shit. I'm like right here next to it all and then, you know. You look up at the palm trees, it's the. The windows are down, music's up, all the iconic the capitol building, the hollywood sign.
Speaker 2:It's just like you're just sitting there going 10 years of work and I'm, and it's it's it's a little bit of that like I made it yeah, not I got a long ways to go, but I've made it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, not I got a long ways to go, but I've made it this far, like, like I'm in the Amblin. I'm in the. Amblin offices? Yeah, holy shit.
Speaker 2:So I mean, you know, I, I made the, the, the maybe bold statement that I don't think it's completely correlated with youth. Yeah, and then you, you it's completely correlated with youth. Yeah, and then you, you made a pretty good counter argument and like, oh well, you know, certainly.
Speaker 4:I think it's more correlated to responsibility or sort of yeah, you know like, and when we're young, no, and that's that's what I wanted to ask like, am I just, am I being?
Speaker 2:like, am I caught up in the moment right now? I mean, obviously, I might just be caught up in the emotion of the moment where I'm, you know, man, I man, I really want this and I don't think it's like that. Very well could be what we're experiencing right now. But, um, yeah, I mean, I I don't necessarily know if that's true, because you might not have the exact parts of it, might be correlated to being young, like the freedom of just pick it up and do whatever for as long as you need to do it. Yeah, that's certainly, you know, not possible when you have a family, when you have kids, when you have certain financial obligations.
Speaker 2:But in my mind, the feeling that I am talking about, where everybody's got something going, everybody's isn't tied to that freedom. It's more tied to one enthusiasm and optimism for the world. But also it's just, I mean maybe, yes, enthusiasm and optimism, it's, it's not feeling like where you are is the end point. There's something that you're, you're, you're you see, there's a dream that you're going after. Yeah, and I don't see a lot of that around me and I mean this sounds really I don't mean this is like a negative, like I've got great people in my life, yeah, but I do just kind of miss that energy of everybody feeling like anything's possible.
Speaker 4:Yes, I, I am with you on that. I feel like I'm trying to think of people that I feel like are really going hard and not saying that they're—I don't know what qualifies it as a dream. Maybe it's sort of like the, the, the, the altitude of the height that someone is trying to pursue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or just the clear progress that gets made.
Speaker 4:Um, and you know, again, like I'm sort of thinking of people that have a dream that's similar to what my dreams have been in the large umbrella of sort of show business, I guess you know whether it's Hollywood or YouTube or whatever Um, so you know, there's plenty of people that I'm probably around who have dreams of a family or dreams of um travel or you know, things that like they really want to pursue, but I don't relate to it necessarily because it's not the same type of thing and that that gets me fired up too, um, and I mean there's definitely some of that, so I mean I I need to one.
Speaker 2:I just need to adjust the way like I am definitely caught up in an emotion right now. Right. And that's affecting certain word choices and things like that. It's not, as it's not as binary as I might be making it out. There's certainly people that are pursuing dreams of family and things like that. But yeah, I mean I I think maybe to be more accurate, I want people that are chasing similar things to what I. I want people that are chasing similar things to what I. I don't even know what I want.
Speaker 4:Maybe that's the issue I think you know for me again, like there's just a general sense that the the like this isn't my side hustle, like I am like all in on this stuff. Like every day I am getting up going. What am I going to make today? That's going to move the needle for sort of like my work and my business. Yeah, um, and I see the same thing, you know, as an actor, my buddy, john kite, that I showed you as Anthony Bourdain videos.
Speaker 4:Like he is going every day trying to improve his craft, make his business the business of being an actor and a a comedian trying to build better yeah and um and uh and reach new heights of creative expression and and connecting with people, and his Bourdain videos have and uh. You know he's going to continue to develop that and maybe he'll move on from it or it'll become, you know, a big thing for him.
Speaker 2:I just I do feel like there was, like when I was younger, there was a everybody kind of had. Yeah, this is what I'm doing right now, but then, this is also what I'm. I got this boiling. I got this on the back boiler.
Speaker 2:I got this on the boiler yeah and with a lot of those people it's like now I just kind of see it as like you've had the same thing on the boiler for five years or like, and certain. I mean I think I'm doing a bad job at expressing this in a in a way that cause.
Speaker 2:I don't mean this as like a to degrade any anybody's anything anything, but just there is like a I've felt just a downshift in kind of I don't want to say the heights people are aiming for, because I don't necessarily think the, the most noble or the most you know worthwhile thing is to always aim for the highest. Yeah, that's I. I firmly don't believe that. But yeah, just the. There's a lot of like settling for something. Yeah, and I would love to be in an environment where people didn't necessarily just kind of settle for what was there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and part of this is me criticizing myself, because, you know, I'm like man, I wish I was in an environment that pushed me to do some of the things that I'm uncomfortable with or that I might be settling for. Push me out of that. And I mean, yeah, we're sitting here and I don't, I know I don't. Obviously I don't want you to think that I'm, you know, sitting here and be like, oh, matt, just doesn't. Like I mean there's a reason we sit down and have conversations every week. I think we both get something out of it.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I just I don't know man I'm looking at it like man when's the last time I really felt that feeling of everybody around me has got something going on and maybe it is negative, maybe that is more hustly than we, you know, than I'd like, but I think you know, and I think too, though that's the draw of some of these places of a New York and an.
Speaker 4:LA, especially in the arts, because a lot of people are there to chase that stuff, just like people in the tech world are going to go to Silicon Valley.
Speaker 2:You're just shattering all of my. I'll make like one argument and you'll be like actually. I mean, that's the whole reason for us talking through, right?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I kind of but it's a reference to that community that you talked about. I think a lot of the I don't want to say success in the typical metrics that you would think indicate success on YouTube. But my friends that are in my Discord server that I started, who are either YouTubers that YouTube about Final Cut or they use Final Cut on their channel, I think all of them and they vocalize this feel like they are doing things at the level that they're doing them, because they're, you know, these are people that, like, live in a small town, or one's in Portugal, one's in Oregon.
Speaker 4:They don't have friends that are doing this kind of stuff and they have talked about the community of us in that Discord and challenging each other, thumbnail reviews, just having an eye on each other for what each one is doing and that's what it was in acting school, it's what it was in film school. Living in Los Angeles. It wasn't like a bad competitiveness to like beat each other, but it was like, wow, dylan's really pushing the the you know the envelope with what he's doing over here.
Speaker 2:I need to up my game and I want to hang, you know with these guys, with the quality of the work and all of that stuff.
Speaker 4:No, it's iron sharpens. I mean, I know it's an overused metaphor and it's kind of corny, but iron sharpens, iron, yeah, and I think sometimes in some of our past episodes where I've, you know, asked you about your output or what you're doing or what you're working on or the nature of your work is I, you know, I I long for that in the in, in the, in my um, where I live, not just in the site, you know, cyberspace, through discord, and I've had that my whole life, my whole sort of professional life again, from acting school to living in chicago. I had started a theater company with some fellow graduates, so like I was just always around people that were going after that one thing hard and then going to film school, living in los angeles, uh, and then coming here, uh, you know, meeting with you and then you starting your channel and all that, like there was there's sort of like a selfish motivation for you to be in that with me, because your work elevates mine.
Speaker 4:These conversations obviously help. There's part of you that, like sort of like, wants to evangelize the, the, what you feel when you are making stuff consistently. That is, you know, you feel is good work, whether it's getting out and making photographs, like we do um together sometimes, or making a video, or whatever it is you're making. Um, I do feel a little starved for those um, those relationships, and I love being around Cody and talking to Cody, because that guy goes hard on what he's pursuing with his work.
Speaker 2:Oh, he's absolutely chasing it.
Speaker 4:Yeah and I love it. It's obviously a similar pursuit but as far as the mentality but it's a whole different thing. So if he talks to me about DIT stuff and working on a commercial in Kansas City, there's a lot that I can understand and know about, but it's different than talking to a fellow actor or a fellow filmmaker or a fellow YouTuber.
Speaker 2:I think that is part of the struggle like a fellow youtuber, that's. I think that is part of the the struggle. Like I am just unclear.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like I'm like I want that energy and then I'm like, but I don't know what I like, I think, just creativity yeah creativity really is what I want.
Speaker 2:I just want, like I don't. I don't care if it's somebody pursuing YouTube or pursuing, you know, music or whatever. I just want to be around people that are pursuing non-obvious combinations of ideas. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's what I'm like starving for, like people that are just like how can I do this differently? What am I going to? How can I approach this in a different way and cause, at the end of the day, that that's what I want to do? Like you know, there might be, whether that looks like a video or a film or whatever that looks like. That's the the. The core is just what's the non-obvious combination of ideas here?
Speaker 2:Yeah and yeah, I don't know, I feel like just all over the place in this episode. I'm just and I'm definitely working through these. I mean, obviously I'll say something and you know there's there's emotion. You get caught up in emotion. I'm not trying to. Yeah, I mean I'm, I'm vocalizing a very internal feeling and I'm doing it live and probably not doing a job at it. So don't listen and be like oh, like you know, not doing a job at it. So don't listen and be like, oh, like you know, he's talking about this or he's talking about this. This is a very just personal thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah and um, yeah, I mean I do feel like, like you said, you know that discord group pulled it apart where, yeah, I, I mean I, I think that is the best argument, for you don't need to be in new york or in la, and those places might have a magic to them, but they're not as relevant as they were because of the internet. Um, maybe I just need to do a better job of like finding a group of of people on on that in that space. Yeah, um, but then also, yeah, just, you know, we've talked about doing little group things and we've done, you know, some stuff like that. Maybe it's leaning more into that as well, absolutely.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I mean there's, there's, you know, there's certainly and even just this podcast community.
Speaker 2:I think there's, I think there's ground to be mined here. Yeah. I mean, I'm obviously if somebody's sitting and listening to us talk about complete nonsense for, you know, an hour at a time like there's something. There's some kind of mutual interest there. I think we should start looking inward here a little bit more, trying to build this out less about us and more about the actual community, whatever that studio sessions community looks like and that you know I was thinking, having thoughts of like there are some heavy hitters here in Omaha.
Speaker 4:It may not be in for us like in our circles in photography or filmmaking, necessarily, although there are, um, maybe they're not as close to us, but you know, I think of you know, I think of Josh Fu and all of his work. I think about Isaiah winning the national championship for baristas at archetype, um, doing things at an incredibly high level. Um the guys that are at yoshitomo and everything he's doing even just the guys at workshop or like.
Speaker 2:Those guys are super creative yep, those guys, and they're really cool yep, so there's, there's, um.
Speaker 4:There are definitely a lot of people here in town that are really going hard. They have a vision, they um have a dream, uh, and then they're, you know, disciplined and executing on achieving that, and that's really inspiring, um, and I think for me, not that I'm like, well, you know you know I just want to be sort of like uh, I just want to keep up with them.
Speaker 4:I don't spend time personally with them. Obviously, I see what they're doing. I go to their restaurant, I drink their coffee, I chit-chat with them if they're there. See their Instagram stories. So there's a closeness if you will with them. There's a closeness if you will with them, but it's not the same, as you know someone that's sort of in the trenches with you pursuing a very similar thing and and it's their number one.
Speaker 4:And maybe there's a way to their number one not their number one priority but the thing that occupies the most mental, emotional and time real estate in their life. And I don't have anybody here in Omaha. You know again, cody, it's adjacent to what I'm doing, but it's not the same. So, yeah, I don't. And it's not like, well, I'm unfulfilled if I don't have somebody here in Omaha that's going as hard on YouTube as I am. Like it's not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think there's a way to tie those different. I think we've talked about like the Gento before and things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I think that's an idea that is worth pursuing more and yeah. Cause. You know it's not obvious, but I think we are. You know, a lot of these people are pursuing the same kind of thing. Yeah, like it might not be as clearly. Oh, this is just youtube.
Speaker 4:Yeah, related but, well, and I think we have a good team of people that are passionately consuming work. Yeah, you know, and I really like the community we have of people that are passionately consuming work. Yeah, you know, and I really liked the community we have of people that are watching film and going to galleries and like taking it all in reading interesting books.
Speaker 2:I'm not. I'm really bad at feeding into that, though, because part of that is just the introversion. Sure. I'm just like I want it so bad. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I don't want to put in the work or that. Not the something I don't want to put in the work, it's just I struggle to find the time to give it the attention that I know it deserves, yeah, and so I rather just not do it, which is terrible, yeah, but yeah, it's just reaching out to people hey, grab coffee, do this, let's get together as a group, let's talk about these things. And then, yeah, I mean this community. We've been making this thing for two years and like we definitely can do a better job of fostering some community here. Yeah, um, and I, you know, I want to do that, I want to. Maybe that's mark that down six months from now. I'd love to have done more work in that. Yeah, just because I mean, that's kind of what it's all about.
Speaker 4:Is just first came in and I was saying like I want to talk about I feel like I personally have been talking more about my reaction to the stuff I've consumed, rather than my experience with what I'm making yeah and there's.
Speaker 4:There's a little bit of sort of like a an element of a day job with some of the YouTube stuff I'm doing, like, oh, I'm writing this article or I'm making this video or whatever, because this is what pays the bills. Deeper work, or the the the more meaningful work that is, you know, you translating your experience of life into a piece of work that you know, I don't know, does what. Whatever John Updike said, it does transcends or whatever.
Speaker 4:Um, yeah that sounds a little self-serving, but uh you know, and and and a lot of that, honestly, is feels like the photography work, but again I'm in such a deficit.
Speaker 2:Kind of those. What did you call it Pressures?
Speaker 4:Yeah, the pressures and then if you are not, you know because of those responsibilities again car payment, student loans, a mortgage, the pressure to have a certain amount in a retirement fund and savings, and you have this. You know all that, you. You start to contentify everything and absorb it into a day job, like, oh, I'm going to, you know, make a photography channel because I really love doing it, but how can I also try to make some money from it? Um, and so then, every time we go out to take photos, or every time I go on a photo walk, or I just want to go make work, I'm constantly thinking well, how do I relate this back to a YouTube video or a piece of content? Cause I got to make money.
Speaker 4:Because all these pressures that make me feel like I'm behind or I'm not pulling my weight, or I'm not meeting expectations, et cetera, I'm not being a good little producer right now. Little producer right now, and, um, and and and. Once I am a good producer, then I can do the meaningful work, because the pressure will be eased and I'll have the space to just go out and take photos instead of hunting down digital cameras and records at estate sales all day. Um, both for a way to make money, but a fun little series of dopamine hits that, you know that.
Speaker 4:That self-medicate me, uh, with you know, whatever it is, I'm going distraction yeah yeah, um, and I don't regret what I did today, but if I had, if I could really design my creative life, it would be. I mean, obviously, ideally you would be just making work and that work had some commercial resonance that made your financial obligations something you didn't have to worry about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the community helps with that, though.
Speaker 4:Absolutely Well this podcast does and my Discord discord and all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. It's a key aspect that a lot of people disregard. Like you look at the building this thing online or building this and you forget oh, this has, this has to transcend into the real world, this has to kind of overflow into the real world. At some point you do have to turn this abstract number online into something. But yeah, I mean, I think that the community, my granddad, always said you're the five people you spend the most time with. You're the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. And.
Speaker 2:I think that that's. I realize how true that statement is every day. And yeah, it's. You know, you just got to find. I think it's like it's one of the reasons that we were drawn to each other, absolutely Like we're. Just first time we got together there was like a crazy energy. Yeah, all right, cool, yeah, definitely gonna hang out with that guy again.
Speaker 4:Yeah, this works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's effortless. Yeah, gotta. I just gotta find, find more. I gotta stop looking for. I have to stop looking for for permission to. I've gotten really bad about this, but just like. Oh like, audrey's not going to do this, so I'm not going to do it, right? Or Matt's not going to do this, so I'm not going to do this, yeah, or so-and-so's not going to do this, so I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, conditional execution, yeah, tying it to a person, it's almost a compliment right right, yeah, yeah, I mean no, it is conditional execution.
Speaker 2:Yeah but it's tying. You tie it to a person, yes, yeah, and it's like, well, they don't want to do this, so I don't do this right. It's like go fucking do it yourself. Yeah, jesus stop yeah like I need to. I need to get over that yeah that there's a lot of things I need to get over, but that is the, you know, one of the biggest ones.
Speaker 4:It's just like and you're, you're, you're, obviously I mean you're capable of it, and I think about your running and I'm like fuck you know, like that guy gets out there and does that, you know, and that's not you know condition.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's even honestly, the running is what put it in, it's I. The other day it was like well, audrey doesn't want to go run with me, I don't want to go run. Obviously, I've been running long enough to know when I'm bullshitting myself, but that's just the thing. I've been running for long enough where I know and I still fucking make the excuse of well, they don't want to do that, so I don't need to do it. So if I can do that with something that I've been doing for that long, like you know, whatever you know and and and you know, uh, I have a lot of that too.
Speaker 4:You know I'll sit there and go. I'll want to go make some work and I'll be like, well, you don't have permission to do that because there's not enough money in your bank account or you haven't hit some whatever metric of output, you know whatever measure of productivity. You're not getting a good little worker here, um and so. So I'll say you haven't, you know you haven't earned it or you don't, you don't get to go do that, yeah, and then which?
Speaker 2:is is really just a really devious way of giving yourself permission to not do something difficult. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And you know this. That goes into questions of um, well, how badly do you want this? Yeah, um, how intense is your ambition? Uh, what are you willing to sacrifice to? You know, achieve the life that you know if you could design it, you know you, could you, you would achieve. Design it, you know you, could you, you would achieve. And though, that you know again is is, uh, the, the, the. My story over the last almost 30 years, since I was 17, there were times where I remember my acting professor at the Chicago showcase and you really know how to turn it on when you want to, and I think, like people that I don't know make great work. Um, they definitely have times where they have to turn it on. There's no doubt they're not just like on all the time, but there is probably more consistency.
Speaker 2:I watched our first or second episode back or a clip from it back because I was doing I was doing cleanup and I found it and we talked about the rice, making the rice, the jiro dreams of sushi, right, you don't, you're not pumped about making the rice every day you're not excited about making the rice.
Speaker 2:Every day you're not excited about, you know, day 14 where you're just doing pickups. Yeah, you're not like man, this is the greatest. I mean, some people might be, might be, but most you know, but you do it. Yeah, and you, you make the rice and you keep doing it. I mean what, what is it? It was like two years they had to make rice before they can move on to. Yeah, you're just okay. Yeah, yeah, it was a long time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, it was a long time. Yep, it's hard, we'll never figure this out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're just wasting time, and anybody that's listening still is probably somebody who we should build better community with. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It had been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summons.
