61. Are We Curating Identity Or Chasing Dopamine?

We explore the vintage clothing and collectibles scene in Omaha, examining the intersection of genuine appreciation, social signaling, and dopamine-driven consumerism. The conversation ranges from Matt's solo trip to a vintage event at A Priori (complete with Polaroid gift-giving) to broader questions about why we acquire things—whether it's a 1940s bomber jacket, rare vinyl records, or another book for the shelf. We discuss the spectrum between celebrating quality craftsmanship and using purchases to fill psychological needs, touching on everything from $500 Nebraska garage band 45s to the declining quality of modern retail clothing.

The episode takes a practical turn when Alex proposes a personal experiment: a multi-month period of not buying anything beyond necessities. We examine the motivations behind this challenge—not primarily financial savings, but rather an exploration of impulse control, creative constraint, and resistance to consumer culture. We also revisit the idea of annual reflection sessions, moving away from metric-based goal-setting toward describing what we want our lives to look and feel like, and how to balance the fulfillment that comes from new pursuits with the discipline that characterized earlier periods of better health and lower consumption. -Ai

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.

Links To Everything:

Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT

Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT

Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT

Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT

Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG

Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG

Chapters

• 0:00 A Vintage Party And Polaroid Gift
• 4:30 Navigating Social Energy And Going Solo
• 7:45 Community, Cameras, And Collectors’ Signals
• 13:30 The Vintage Market: From Omaha To Japan
• 18:20 Status, Big E, And Recognition Games
• 24:30 Quality Versus Fast Fashion
• 29:40 Distressed Aesthetics And Provenance
• 36:00 Thrifting Scores: Leather, Lenses, And Digicams
• 42:20 The Appeal And Ick Of Clout Culture
• 49:00 Consumerism, Collection, And Cultural Checklists
• 55:30 The Wardrobe Theory: No-Buy Creativity
• 1:01:40 Art, Attention, And Why We Signal
• 1:08:10 Resale, Appreciation, And Asset Mindset

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

It had been a golden afternoon, and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with some. There was an event at a couple of my friends' uh clothing store uh called A priori, and Alex has been to an event there before with me. And um like the one of the better events we've yeah we've been to. I wasn't I knew it was going on, but I wasn't originally like amped on going, but then Stefan texted me directly and you know to let me know about it and you know, love it if you'd come. And I just really love being in like the vintage and clothing community of you know, with these this crew here in Omaha. So I'm like, I'm for sure gonna go. So I mentioned it to you. It wasn't like you know, you have to commit or anything, but if you're feeling up to it, you know, happy to go with the plus one. So I touched base with them between seven and eight, and he's like, Yeah, not gonna work. So I went to the water.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02

Well, at first you said it and I was like, Yes, that sounds good. I was and I was like, it was on Friday. This is me too. This is me too.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09

Yeah. Between like two, two and six o'clock at night, I'm like, I'm like feeling so good. I'm like, let's stay up late, let's go see a movie.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18

Well, and usually on Friday, I'm like, okay, like I can sleep in tomorrow. It doesn't matter. I think it was Friday.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26

Maybe I don't even know. Was it Thursday? What day is it today?

SPEAKER_02: 1:31

It was Thursday.

SPEAKER_01: 1:32

We were talking about doing a hot, no? Because then, yeah, because uh Stefan had a wedding on Saturday. Yeah, it was Friday. Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39

So yeah, we just got to Friday and yeah. With Friday with me, it's like either the energy's there or it's not. Yeah, and it was it was not not with me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:51

So I knew that if I got home by no later than midnight, I could sleep till six or six thirty and hit my six hours minimum. And I did, I think I made it till about six thirty. And I was great. I feel like you know, I had a great time. Uh the the big thing for me was, and you know, and again, this is like that we've talked about this in previous episodes too, just like the introversion, extroversion thing. And you know, I've dealt with it at NAB and when I went to Poland for Motion VFX and just other situations, sort of more normal situations here. Um, and I'm like, I'm rolling in solo, I don't know who I'm gonna know there. I'm like, I probably will see a few friendly faces. I told Josh that you know it was that night, and if he wanted to show up to show up. So I walk in, pan the room, I'm like, I don't recognize anybody. Uh, and then I saw Stefan, said hello to him, and then started chopping up with some strangers. And then my buddy Michael Henning showed up. I'm like, what the hell are you doing here? Michael Henning's pulling up. I haven't seen him in years. Right. So we were thrilled to see each other, and then I met some of his friends. By the way, his friend, one of his friends, rolled up with a gold contacts T2. I was like, dude, I've got the silver one, but we've got the gold. Uh, and then some of the other vintage kids that I see at the estate sales and some like at the exchange that you went to, um, they were there. So it ended up being great. And Josh showed up too. And so it was it was great. And I actually had to like make myself leave. We were drinking champagne. Yeah, yeah. I brought I was trying to think of a gift. I'm like, what you know, it's the it was an anniversary party for their shop. And I'm like, gosh, you know, I'm kind of coming in late to this. And I'm like, what would be a good gift? And I thought, you know, I'll take pictures with my Polaroid and I'll give them pictures of the event with that. So I just picked up, I just had an eight-pack in my fridge. So I took my little 90s Polaroid camera there and threw the eight-pack in and did some photos of the guys together and all that. And Stefan was like super thankful. So that was really nice. Um, the gift of uh analog photographs. Yeah, the gift of time. Yeah, that's right. The gift of but everyone was excited too. Like, oh, is that worth like like they knew they know what it is? It's not like they're like, but they're like, oh, and they see the photo come out. They're like, Do you suppose to shake it? I'm like, no, that's an old kind of Polaroid thing. Like there actually was a shake it thing, like for a ver an early version of Polaroid.

SPEAKER_02: 4:22

Didn't they like it just caught on? And so they were just like, okay, let's use that as a brand.

SPEAKER_01: 4:28

I'm sure they've embraced it, yeah, especially with Outcast song and all that stuff. You know, it's just it's just kind of a thing. But you don't have to, it doesn't help, or it doesn't really hurt as long as you're not bending it or folding it or anything like that. Um, but all the photos turned out great. A couple that I that I popped the trigger a little too quick without kind of half pressing to get focus, and then so there was a couple that were just a touch blurry, but that's also kind of part of the charm of it, too. So so that was really nice. Yeah, that's dope.

SPEAKER_02: 4:57

Can't believe that so that shops have been there for a year. Then workshops.

SPEAKER_01: 5:00

I think it's two a priori is two years.

SPEAKER_02: 5:02

So are they um I mean they're happy with it? And I think workshops five years. Do they have like a preference or is it just kind of like I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 5:11

I think it's one of those things where it's like, you know, pick your favorite kid, you know. It's hard, you know. They each have their own charms and their own things that they love about them.

SPEAKER_02: 5:20

It seems like they're spending more time at the a priori. I don't know. I don't know if that's just my I just I've never seen them in workshop before.

SPEAKER_01: 5:28

Well, they alternate weeks and then they've also alternated days now so that they're mixing it up during each of their weeks, so they're not at one shop all week long. Um so yeah, it's usually every other week, you know, they trade off, and now they've even traded off days. So but they've started like screen printing at workshop and they're gonna make their own shirts and then also try to do like small, I think, small batch stuff for other places, other companies, um, to just build another revenue stream.

SPEAKER_02: 5:59

The vintage scene is I mean, it's nothing compared to I'm sure like LA, New York, Chicago, Atlanta. But it seems like it's pretty you would know better than me, but from the outside looking at it, it seems like it's pretty robust here.

SPEAKER_01: 6:13

Yeah, I I think the vintage scene from you know smaller, medium-sized markets all the way up to the big ones like LA, Chicago, New York, LA and New York primarily. Um Atlanta, Austin. Yeah, I would say those are probably secondary just based on population and you know, you know, the like the how prevalent the sort of the art, the art and fashion community is in those in those cities. But you know, I think you know, vintage is vintage clothing and all that from my understanding has never been more sort of ubiquitous across the country. And it's you know, it's certainly a big deal in Japan, um, where they pull a lot of Americana vintage um over there and sell it at ridiculous prices. And I don't mean that in a negative way, I just mean like the demand, the demand is high, the supply is low.

SPEAKER_02: 7:02

It's like the extension or the evolution of streetwear culture.

SPEAKER_01: 7:05

Yeah, and that's a big part of it too, I think. And they're intertwining, and it's um, I think it's also uh, you know, if there's a dark side to it, it's a little bit of like consumer culture being propagated on YouTube and uh, you know, uh signaling your social status through the high-end items you have. I mean, I can certainly I mean, when I was at the exchange, um I had a type three Levi's mid-60s jacket on. They call it Big E. Um, not that jacket, but that era of Levi's was the Big E era, where the little red tab or sometimes orange tab on the clothing item has a capital E in the Levi's instead of a lowercase E. And that's like a big signifier of specialness of Levi's stuff. So I had that coat on that I thrifted for like four bucks, and a lot of the vendors could, you know, tell what it was right away. And uh, you know, I I'll be the first to admit that there was like a little bit of a um check this out. Well, there's like a there's like uh yeah, that's right. Yeah, I've got this, you know, and these I and it's coveted, you know. You know, it's not worth it's the gold contacts. Yeah, yeah, it's the gold contacts T2 that I just mentioned, you know. And that guy, you know, nobody, you know, my my first reason for wearing the I mean I'm the fucking asshole that it carries around the M9. Like I I get it. And you're you know, sort of guarded about it. I think did you change out the red button? Yeah, you changed out the red button not to signal.

SPEAKER_02: 8:43

I do some of that's safety, some of that is I don't like this the fucking what kind of camera is that? And I'm like, it's an M9? It's it's like how do I win this? Like either you know what it is and I'm an asshole, or you don't know what it is and it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01: 8:55

And sadly, it's like I'm the guy that lights up when somebody recognizes something cool that I have. So if I had my contacts T2 and someone's like, dude, is that a contacts T2?

SPEAKER_02: 9:06

Like, yep, it sure is. And it's always cool when somebody recognizes, oh, is that a Leica? Yeah, but the kind of sometimes like so maybe it's like 7030 with people that have recognized. There's a lot of people that are just like, oh, that's a cool camera. Is that a film camera? What kind of camera is that? Most people that recognize it have a Leica. They're like, oh, I have a I have a you know M10D or like I have an A like M10 or like I have an M8 or I have the and they recognize it because that's their camera. Right. And then there's the other, like there's it's it's actually a pretty small portion in my experience where people recognize and they're like, oh my god, that's a Leica. Yeah, it's just not as because it's like if you have a Leica, then you probably know what it is. There is a small group of people who like maybe recognize what it is and want one. Yep. Um, and you know, I mean it's yeah, it's fun to have your camera recognized. It's yeah, you know, it's fun to whatever, but it is just like you can't win that exchange. Like, oh, is that a what kind of camera is that? It's like Audrey always makes fun of me because I'm just like, oh, it's just it's a M9. And they're like, oh, cool. And she's like, you know, that means nothing to them. I'm like, yeah, but what am I gonna say? Like, what else? Like, I don't know. It's a camera.

SPEAKER_01: 10:26

Yeah. And I think for me, with like um, you know, like the the exchange and and and cameras and all that stuff, is especially like at the exchange where these mostly young men that vend at the because men's clothing, men's vintage clothing is far more sought after and valuable. I'm not saying that it's better than women's vintage, it's just not as prevalent, at least in Omaha. Um and what I liked about being there was and I you know, I I used to thrift for vintage clothing in my 20s, like a lot. It wasn't to resell because you know, eBay wasn't what eBay and you know, there was certainly wasn't like Depop and Grailed and all these other sites and Mercari and Etsy and all that stuff where you can sell sell stuff. E-commerce wasn't as prevalent back then. But I just like the celebration of like sought-after quality items, especially in today's uh landscape as far as clothing goes, where I feel like if you go to Gap or Banana Republic or J. Crew or uh you know uh any like department store, the quality has nosedived.

SPEAKER_02: 11:48

And do you think that's quietly changing? I think there's the pendulum swings, and I almost think that yeah, this rise in vintage, this rise in old things, like I just think the pendulum is quietly probably like it obviously that the whole part of the pendulum quietly swing, and maybe this is just me being you know wishful thinking, but do you think it's maybe swinging in the opposite direction again to where now like if quality becomes sought after, then you respond to that by making things that are more quality to get those people.

SPEAKER_01: 12:27

Yes, but I think the challenge with that is when you're making something high quality and it's brand new and you're selling it, the price point is going to be so high that most people are just gonna go towards vintage or you know, secondhand clothing.

SPEAKER_00: 12:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:43

Most of these people that are buying this stuff don't care if it has a stain, a tear, a hole. Sometimes it was shocking. People want how beat up some of those and there's a whole subset of vintage culture where they want the stuff distressed or completely thrashed. Yeah. They want the shirts faded. Um, they want it to have sort of a visible story. And, you know, I've watched some videos on YouTube about vintage clothing that is thrashed. And I mean, there's there's uh you know, jackets from the 70s that are shredded and they sell for$2,000 plus dollars. It's nuts to me. Um, that's not the look that I have to like I have to thrash it myself.

SPEAKER_02: 13:30

Like that's the whole point.

SPEAKER_01: 13:32

I have a couple shirts, like work shirts, you know, just run-of-the-mill 2015 Carhartt t-shirts that I wore doing all the yard work at my house. There's paint on them, they're faded, you know, not really any rips or holes, but they look like shit. And I'm like, it's not like a fashion statement that I personally want to make, like just wearing it around. But I'm like, there is something, there's something that I look at that and I can see all of the stories of what I did to the house through those clothing items. And I think there are there are people that want to appropriate those stories, and it goes back to conversations we had about provenance and all that, and if they even if they don't know the exact story. I was watching one video, dude, where they these these guys, um, I think it's Bid Stitch, they went to the Levi's headquarters in San Francisco, and the woman who is in charge of the Levi's archive, like the library of the history of all the Levi stuff, basically. Yeah. Now they don't have every item they've ever made. I mean, Levi's goes back to the like the mid to late 1800s, but this woman pulls out a drawer, and the story was that, and I'm sure probably getting some details wrong, but this gentleman was like hiking in New Mexico and came across some like rubble or ruin or something from some kind of little settlement or a mine or something, and there was a stack of rocks, and as he peeled the rocks away, there was a denim coat, and it was like from the 1800s, late 1800s, and it was a denim coat that Levi's itself, the company, did not have a version of, yeah, and it was like covered in some kind of petroleum or something, and which actually helped preserve it. It was a mess, and so she pulls out this jacket, and like it's she's got gloves on, the like special acid-free paper and a special acid-free box. This thing is like it's covered in something, but it's still intact. You can see the jacket. They pulled up the records from the catalog that showed what type of coat it was back in the 1800s and all this stuff. Yeah. And I mean, I am just watching this like this is just uh magical to me. Like this shit is out there. As long as you're not like selling that.

SPEAKER_02: 15:49

Like I think that this gentleman's weird to me if you're like selling that as like a like it's super cool to like pass down or to put in like a like a like a Smithsonian or like in a history book.

SPEAKER_01: 16:04

I mean, it's um it's gonna stay in the Levi's archive. It's well and that's that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02: 16:08

Yeah, like the but the idea of like selling something that's beat to shit so somebody can like buy it and not wear it, or like wear it one time to like social signal is just kind of and so one of the conversations in those videos has been is vintage clothing heading toward what we see with like the art world, baseball cards, comic books?

SPEAKER_01: 16:31

I mean, uh an original Superman action comics comic book just sold for over seven million dollars at auction. Yeah, it's insane. And you know that there is a very wealthy person, likely who purchased it and it's going to go into some paid-for vaulted temperature controlled storage facility where it will gain value and then be a you know an investment asset for that person.

SPEAKER_00: 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 16:58

And I think you will see clothing. I mean, there's a pair of Levi's jeans that have sold for high five figures. I think there's some clothing items that have sold for six figures.

SPEAKER_02: 17:08

It's like James Dean's Levi's or something.

SPEAKER_01: 17:10

I mean, this this could literally be like a guy went to South Dakota and went into an abandoned mine and found a 1888 pair of Levi's jeans.

SPEAKER_00: 17:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:21

And those are worth, and somehow they were preserved, they were in like some pocket of air. I mean, whatever. That and like you could literally put them on. They're not brittle or whatever, and those would be worth a hundred plus thousand dollars and maybe even more. Um crazy to me. And those types of things will will rise in value. I just thrifted today. I stopped at um uh a spot that I go to frequently and for the first time chatted it up with the owner of the spot. And I was just asking about CRTs. Do people come in and bring CRT televisions that you tell them you don't take? And if so, can you take them and I'll buy them from you? He was surprised that they're sought after and all that stuff. And as I'm looking around his office, he has a bunch of stuff in there that hasn't been put out on the floor. And I'm like, is any of this stuff is it okay for me to look at it? He's like, Yeah, all of it's for sale.

SPEAKER_00: 18:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:19

I look in the corner, there's two cat Canon Digicams. I mean, like the like the one of them's like the 360 HS. He just like, I just haven't got around to pricing them. Yeah, he had a knicker mat FT with a night 50 millimeter Nikon 1.4 SC lens on there. I'm like, Yeah, you know, this isn't like a$700 lens or anything, but it's you're like pumped about it. Yeah, it's I'm uh it's a good lens. And then there's like a whole closet full of leather jackets. So I'm like, can I look through these? Like, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. I flip through them. There's like a like a like a late 40s, early 50s um uh fighter uh not fighter pilot, but pilot's bomber jacket, a brown leather bomber jacket from from I think Shot when I was a kid. It had the map on the inside. And this one's even older. Yeah, it's by this company called Shot out of New York that made these jackets. Um and it I can't I haven't looked up the research to see if it was military issued or if it's uh military reproduction.

SPEAKER_02: 19:20

But you know, uh that military the old military stuff is really cool because a lot of it is pretty well made.

SPEAKER_01: 19:27

And other than this being a little dirty, the leather's in good condition. Um it needs to be cleaned and and and all that, but but that jacket, I think I found one on eBay, and that doesn't mean that there aren't others, but with a quick look, and this one, and I don't know if it's the exact same tags, all that stuff, but I mean it was up for sale, it wasn't sold, but it was up for sale for over$400. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 19:50

How much did you like 20?

SPEAKER_01: 19:52

I I didn't I didn't look it up before I offered. So um that and there was another leather jacket that was made in Brazil, kind of a standard heavy metal looking 80s leather jacket, black leather jacket, and all the cameras, and I offered like 115 bucks for it all. And he was like, Yeah, take it. Yeah, sick.

SPEAKER_02: 20:12

Yeah, he's like, Yeah, get it out of here.

SPEAKER_01: 20:14

Yeah, he he had alluded to sort of like needing the money. Yeah. Um and that wasn't, you know, my cue to take advantage of them, but I didn't wasn't able to test the cameras, you know. I didn't know if the bet the, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 20:27

I mean, at the same time, too, it's like, you know, you just happened upon it, it wasn't out there. Right. Yeah. It's you know, it's like if I found something. I mean, yeah, I'm not gonna I mean, unless I know exactly what it's worth, I'm not gonna like go through the time to be like, is this exactly this? Or just be like, hey, I'll give you this much for it. Yeah. Or I mean, you know, like if I'm buying a several books or something, I'll just be like, hey, I'll give you this much for it. Yeah, like you just take a nice clean round number. Yep. Um, so I did want to ask, like when I left the we went to, we met Matt at my wife and I. Yes. Met Matt at a vintage event called the Exchange. Yeah. Yeah. And it was really cool. Um, and there's a lot of good stuff in there.

SPEAKER_01: 21:18

And you picked up a nice little item too.

SPEAKER_02: 21:20

Swest.

SPEAKER_01: 21:21

Little Swest. Um I I thought it worked really well with the white t-shirt and the chain. I was like, I I love it.

SPEAKER_02: 21:30

I wasn't even I'm a fan of sweater vests.

SPEAKER_01: 21:32

I never really am. I'm like, that looks pretty good, dude. It's not bad. It's not bad. Um because when you told me Swest, I was like, I don't know. Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 21:42

You put it on, I was like, yeah. Like, that's the one that's the most um the the thing I was talking about when we were leaving, though, is like I kind of understand the appeal of like I it's close, and you would think it would be something that I'd be maybe not. I mean it's kind of like it it it has it's it's like a weird stepchild of my interests, right? It has like certain things where you would you would say, oh yeah, this is right up right up your alley, and then it has certain things where I'm like, nah. But I left and I just had a weird I don't know if I've talked to you about like like when I did like music photography and I'd go to these concerts, um, and a lot of this was in like Nashville and kind of more hip hop centered. And this was in I don't know, like 2016 to 2019 or something. Um so it's been a while. Um but it was like Nashville Chattanooga, and there was there were good kind of subcultures in both of those places. And I'd go to these uh events and um it was just always like part of it really I don't I don't want to say like dis it was it was kind of disgusting. It was just like very yeah, just like hey, look at look at what I like hey, look at the car I drive or look at it was that same kind of thing, but done in clothes and done in and this was when streetwear was pretty big, yeah like I'd say the peak of that. And so you had just kind of this uh I mean, I don't know, like clout yeah, clout um and signaling, clout chasing signaling environment. Yeah and but it just rubbed me the wrong way. And I got a similar vibe from the vintage. Not okay, so I do want to make a distinction. It did feel like there were a lot of people there who were just like, I love this. Celebrating it, yeah, and like very like no pretension or no like ego about it. Even the guy that I bought the sweater vest from was just like doing his thing, running his business, chopping it up with some friends, eating pizza, like just chilling, like having a good time. Like it was it was really cool. But then there was definitely some people that so like in your experience, what do you like how what would you say the scales balance out to in that? Like, do you see more of that? I I don't know, maybe it's just the younger generation is less like they're more in it just because it's like a fun thing to do. Yeah, and they are kind of just running a business, and but they're also they you know they care about the finding these pieces and curating these items and you know the not the hustle of it. I mean it seemed like a much healthier environment than that, yeah. Um, but then yeah, there was definitely this feeling also of like signaling.

SPEAKER_01: 24:45

Do you think that was from the vendors or from the buyers?

SPEAKER_02: 24:48

Not the vendors, from the buyers, yeah. Maybe some of the vendors. I mean, obviously, I didn't like get to know these vendors intimately. And there's also this idea though, we talked about it when we sat down. I've been thinking about this, just like collecting things or like just consuming things to try to like I don't know, like as a proxy to happiness or like a little bit of I always call it like buying purchasing dopamine. Yeah, to fill the hole, like I have a hole and I need to fill it with stuff. And like we've been talking about just off off mic, a little bit of like, yeah, people collecting movies where they just watch movies just to say that they've watched them. And like it's not for the enjoyment of the film, it's to like check it off publicly to like tell somebody that, yeah, I've seen this or I've seen all of these, and like just like like or reading a book or listening to an album. Yeah. Not because you're trying to enjoy the thing or because but just because there's 5,000 of these and I want to have these like culture, cultural. I mean, yes, it's gathering cultural context, but also being able to signal that you know you are oh you haven't. Well, like anytime anybody's like, you haven't seen this, or you haven't heard this, and um, I mean, there's two ways to say that. There's like, oh, you haven't seen this, you gotta check this out. Like, I can't believe you haven't seen this, like you'll enjoy this. But then there's also like you haven't seen this, and it's like a lot of fucking books out there, like a lot of fucking albums out there, yeah. A lot of movies, like, yeah, I I haven't crossed paths with this one, and it's it's just like this little way to like signal even if it's kind of unconscious, it just feels like a like a superiority signal. Yeah, and yeah, I'm just I don't know, I'm I'm going down a rabbit hole, but like, yeah, what is your vibe and what like I I just think it's it's all of it.

SPEAKER_01: 26:46

It's it's um I think we bounce back and forth as individuals from all states within those behaviors and activities. I think at times each of us either has or is capable of signaling or um not shaming someone, but being like, you haven't seen this, you know, I have. You know, what does that mean about me that I've seen it but you haven't? Um, and then I think at times it's you don't have the biggie, or you don't have oh, you haven't you haven't found a biggie before. I've only been doing this for six months and I found one. You know, stuff like that. Um I think it's also you know, people just catching on like a house on fire and getting excited about what each other has and hasn't seen, and they're excitedly sharing that, and there's no judgment, there's no uh, you know. I mean, think of between you and um uh and Alex, uh, how many movies you guys have seen, and I'm like, I don't I don't have any clue about that movie. You referenced the documentary in the last episode. Um the when we were talking about the girl that woman's YouTube channel. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I vaguely recall you mentioning that in the past, but I'm like, that would have never crossed my plate. And obviously, you're not like, oh well, obviously, I'm the superior student of film and appreciate appreciator of films. Well, but it's it's you went to film school and you've never heard of this movie. Oh yeah, you know, none of that shit.

SPEAKER_02: 28:26

It's just like there's a lot of fucking movies. Yeah. Like everybody has different yeah, and I mean, I think there's something to be said for like having a common language that you can speak with people. Yeah. And like I enjoy uh, you know, shared context on certain things, and obviously that'll I'll have different context or different conversations with different people when I have uh different capabilities to my language because of that those reference points or that shared context. But yeah, I mean, yeah, it's not like it it feels good to do that, but it's not productive, and I think it's pretty toxic to our world as a whole to but I guess yeah, like the question like in in vintage and like specifically, have you spent a lot of time thinking about that or like how these things I have it is very consumer consumerism based, and it sounds like it sounds like I'm just trying to like shit in the middle of the floor.

SPEAKER_01: 29:29

It is it is and it isn't. I think like all things, it's it's all of that stuff, and yeah again, it you know, if let's say it's these the trinity here and it's consumerism and appreciation of the art of fashion and signaling and all that. I think we move, we kind of undulate from place to place. We're never wholly in one over the other, but there are times when maybe somebody's just has some insecurity in their life or whatever's going on, and they're sort of in this place of like, well, I'm not really. Like nuts about Metallica, but I found this original 83 Metallica t-shirt. And if I wear it out and I can tell people that it's original, it's gonna lift me up a little bit out of my insecurity because I did something that was hard to do. And then other times they're wearing something that nobody else is wearing because they just think it's an amazing piece and they they respect the construction and maybe the designer behind it or where it came from or whatever, and they're just wholly owning that. And then, yes, at other times you are wanting a uh you're in a state where whatever's going on in your life is creating a desire for some dopamine hits, and you're gonna start binging on purchases to make yourself feel better. So I think we're we're always moving back and forth between those states. And and there might be some people who barely ever touch the signaling one or barely ever touch the consumerism one and are mostly grounded in the appreciation and minimum, you know, sort of like focused purchasing and deliberate needs-based purchasing, you know, stuff like that. Because I definitely go back and forth between the three. Now, I'm a more sort of volatile, emotional, impulsive personality. Um, uh there's times where I definitely am sort of insecure about myself in that vintage community or just in life in general as a content creator and I do things that are born out of that insecurity. Uh, and then there are times where I am a dopamine fiend and I'm constantly like and need a hit. So I'm gonna go get crazy.

SPEAKER_00: 31:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 31:42

I think like how do you what okay, what would you and I'm just I'm just reaching at like the things that come to mind here, but what do you think it like the pure so fashion's always been something that's like tangentially interested me. And I've never been able to square it with I mean like I really like you know, I appreciate part of it, I think, is just like I'm not I've never really been into like streetwear culture per se, or like certain aspects of it are interesting to me and like certain like just ideas and approaches to design or like graphic design in you know three-dimensional space on people, things like that. I I think that some of that stuff's interesting. But I've never been able to square you know fashion with the fashion industry because it just seems like I mean it's like a huge stain in my mind. Absolutely. And I I just like it's so I think what I'm trying to ask, and I'm not trying to like I want to be clear, I'm coming at this from like a what have you, you know, in your thinking about this, what have you found that as kind of like is the exhilarating part, like is the the truth of it that makes it because yeah, I mean I mean I think you can go to like you know Italian fashion houses from the 60s or 70s and yeah, those guys just loved f making a good suit or like they loved well-designed, beautiful things that you know withstood, and that's there's still plenty of places that do that to this day. They just love how like a certain material cut in a certain way and sewn together in a certain way falls on a human with this type of you know this characteristic to their legs or to their torso or to whatever, yeah, you know, shoes, things like that. But then there's a lot of just like I mean, yeah, it's just signaling that that also so well.

SPEAKER_01: 34:03

I think that goes to the last event we went to a priori about the wardrobe theory project and what he was talking about. It wasn't as grounded from what I remember, yeah. In it was sort of like you know, the one of the pressure points in the world.

SPEAKER_02: 34:19

Just really quick, his idea was he wasn't gonna buy. I mean, obviously, like people have done like no buy, that's pretty popular, but he said he was a designer at Nike. Yep, like had a you know a decent resume for for that, you know. Well, it wasn't just somebody who was like, Oh, I'm just gonna look at my closet and make social media. Someone who's yeah, works in artist fashion and yeah, very skilled illustrator. And yeah, he said, Yeah, I'm just not gonna buy anything for a year.

SPEAKER_01: 34:47

I'm gonna go through my existing wardrobe and get really creative to see what's possible with combining pieces I hadn't thought of combining before, and and thinking about sustainability and the environment and you know the perils of fast fashion and what it does to the environment.

SPEAKER_02: 35:06

Uh and kind of fighting back against that just need to consume and need to copy and need to, you know, just buy a piece because so and so all that stuff was pictured in it.

SPEAKER_01: 35:17

Yeah. Yeah, the negative forces at play, or what we pr what we pr feel are negative forces at play in uh making the decisions that we make with regards to clothing. Yeah. And so that that that to me was was interesting. And um I don't know. For me, I'm very early in that exploration, and I think for those of you who have been watching the podcast, you know, you can sort of see the evolution of the clothing that I've been wearing as I have gone deeper and deeper into um estate sales and thrifting and reconnecting with um, you know, older tech, single purpose technology, vinyl records, music, all that, you know, I'm certainly uh someone that can fall victim to you know the the the drug of purchasing something that is inspiring or interesting or high quality, the dopamine that's there. Or if I if I can acquire something by I can buy this thing for four dollars and sell it for 30, and then this thing that I keep that's ten dollars, you know, I'm still making a profit, but I get to I get to keep this cool thing, you know. I can kind of do that that rationalization as well um to acquire more and more things. Is this Dickies, by the way? No, this is um This is so this is such a just left turn.

SPEAKER_02: 36:49

Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01: 36:50

Um I forget what company it is. You have to read it off of there. You see it? Todd. Todd, yeah. Just like a basic utility. Yeah, that's cool. With the crimson, the red um inside. Sorry, I just completely derailed your no, you're good. Yeah, yeah, and all this stuff that I'm wearing is thrifted. This is a vintage um thermal um 100% cotton. This is actually the shirt is vintage, but this is a bootleg Nirvana t-shirt that I picked up as like uh an experiment to kind of go, how good are these bootlegs that people are making? And I'm like, I want to see. It was 40 bucks. Yeah. You know, and I'm like, pretty pretty damn good. Not bad, not bad. And then this is a post uh United States post office um cardigan that I got at an estate sale. These are vintage Wrangler jeans um made in USA. Uh shoes are not vintage, they're just vans, but most everything, yeah, is stuff that I've sourced from my my uh exploits. Um but you know, uh look, I'm I'm someone that's gonna do all three of the things I mentioned before. Uh I'm gonna appreciate the art, I'm going to uh crave the dopamine, and I'm gonna at times enjoy the signaling um or the attention that having a sought-after piece um creates. And I can feel sometimes my brain going, You need to find a Detroit Carhartt, because if you find one, especially in a rarer color, like it's gonna let people know that like you're good at you're good at this. Yeah, you know, and that's from all insecurity, yeah, which I have you know dealt with all my life. And it's not like I am an insecure person, but it's insecurity in pockets of experience, you know. Um, at a motion v FX thing in Poland as a YouTuber at NAB in the vintage community, you know, like am I gonna say the right thing? Am I gonna, you know, like and then that causes issues with sort of like self-management and maybe you're not being authentic because you're like kind of playing a part rather than just being yourself, and it's just a whole mess of stuff. But it's it's again, it's it's the duality between all the good stuff about the experience and some of the stuff that you wish wasn't the case. It's not necessarily bad or Matt's doing something wrong or cringy or whatever, but it's like you know, it's just not the best.

SPEAKER_02: 39:30

I don't think that answers your question, but no, I mean, I I I think you might be answering it in the in the sense that you're like, well, you kind of can't have one without the other.

SPEAKER_01: 39:43

Yeah, I just think for everybody it's all of it.

SPEAKER_02: 39:46

And I mean, I I I don't know if I even disagree with that. I think I might agree with that completely. I just I mean, yeah, it's just I think it's tempting. It's like it's a shame that there that these are discussions that like these are problems that happen. And yeah, things get kind of co-opted and turned into these. I mean, it's just people want attention. That I like so much like so much of our world just comes down to like people wanting attention.

SPEAKER_01: 40:20

And I see it with my kids, I mean it's just natural. I see it with my kids. They want to show me their homework, they look what happened at school.

SPEAKER_02: 40:26

When we leave her and we ignore her, it's just give me attention.

SPEAKER_01: 40:30

Right. Validate me, make me feel loved. I, you know, I I want I want to know that I have value in your life, or that I make good decisions, or that I, you know, we talked about that with like the sort of the applying of sort of fatherly role to some of these older men that I run into, you know. And again, I I I think I think it's easy for us to be tempted to go to an event or meet somebody and to kind of even if we have a sort of a a gross-out moment or a negative reaction, or they do something cringy, it's easy to sort of like take their behavior as a symptom of something, this maybe predominant character trait that we overall perceive of as negative. And I just have grown to learn, and this comes from everything I learned in acting school, and this is what's been so good at helping me have situations like that, but then search for the character breakdown that we would do in class. You're playing a douchebag, you're playing a villain, you're playing whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 41:50

Like you have to they're like they're never just yeah, there's always a justification that makes perfect sense and not persons.

SPEAKER_01: 41:58

Yeah, and there's there's other things going on, there's deeper things psychologically. And I've been, you know, someone interested in armchair psychology my whole life and just sort of breaking down people's motivations and why they do this or why they do that. And a lot of the ability to do that comes from holding the mirror up to myself. Like, why are you doing this? Why are you into this vintage stuff? Like, okay, yes, it is some some parts insecurity, it is some parts avoidance of doing this hard work for this on this other thing that you don't want to do because it's more fun to find an old leather jacket and sell it for$400 than it is to make a new final cut effect and sell it to people. Um it is a reaction to consumerism in the sense of well, if I'm gonna be intro involved in consumerism, I'm not gonna hawk other companies' products through my YouTube channel and persuade people to buy them and use my link so I get a commission. It's like at least this way you get to they're interested in the thing because it has built-in value that I don't have to ascribe to it. They already know the biggie Levi's jacket is something they're willing to pay$300 for. I don't have to convince them of that. I'm just the person who found it and put it in front of them and they can buy it or not. I don't have to say anything. Whereas on my channel, I feel like, you know, obviously the best videos are the ones where like, hey, this is how I make my titles in Final Cut. I don't give a shit if you buy these plugins or not, but this is how I do it. Yeah. Versus, hey everyone, welcome to the channel. We're in the edit bay talking about Mo Sh. And today we're gonna highlight the M tutorial, and this is how I mobile blog and you're use my code and da-da-da, and it's a commercial, yeah. And so this is also a reaction to that. It's like, well, how can I make money that makes me feel that makes me feel like I don't know, like more grounded in the things that I have that I value. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 43:54

Um well, and it's also more like it's it's more customized to your vision. Like, you know, you you're just one guy out of a million selling plugins, but you're one guy out of 25 selling X or Y, Z. Yeah. And how you curate that, right? Like, yes, you can curate and be like, oh yeah, I'm doing video plugins, or like I'm gonna do the uh uh what's the uh the Squarespace? Yeah, yeah. Squarespace ads, yeah. I'm just gonna, you know, you could totally do, but yeah, it's it's like a way to be more of an individual, feel less like a just another boy.

SPEAKER_01: 44:46

Yeah, to me, you know, a sales book. Which also, yeah, that just then it just reruns like the century of the self. Yeah. And now look, I don't I don't want to make it seem like anybody that showcases a product on their YouTube channel is like a sellout or a salesman or they're a piece of shit because they do it. Yeah. Um I I think that um that there are a lot of people out there that need people to show them tools and products that will help them make work.

SPEAKER_02: 45:20

There's been several things that I've I've bought or purchased. Maybe not several. There's definitely been more than one thing though that I bought or purchased from an ad. Same here. Absolutely. That I'm like this added significant value to my life.

SPEAKER_01: 45:37

Yep. And there are products that I'm like, look, this is so great. I will make that video. Like Auphonic, the thing that's processing our audio right now. I mean, it is like it is magic to me. Every video I've made, dude. I just blended two different audio tracks. One was uh a boom mic in my back studio with the boom mic in my edit bay. I would have spent hours trying to match the sound quality of the two to like make it not seem like it was an abrupt shift in the source of the audio, and Auphonic just makes it more easy. Yeah, just did it, yeah. And I'm just like, the fact that this Oh, it's it makes life way easier, and uh like you know, so so there's that, and then there's certainly there's effects plugins that I use and work well, and I'm really happy to have them, but you know, it's not so mind-altering that I'm like, you guys have to know about this. Yeah. At the same time, though, you know, the channels that I have on YouTube, I put links on some of them to my eBay where I have cameras and vintage clothing because if people are watching those videos and they're interested in that stuff, they can go and and check it out because I do want to sell this stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 46:56

Um I almost part of um I've always wanted to do the like don't buy anything for yeah X amount of months, or like obviously like you're buying food, sure, like shit like that, but gas. Yeah, gas, you know, you gotta get the car repaired, paying your bills, shit like that. But I've I have always wanted to do the like yeah, like don't buy any new clothes, don't buy any new shit. Yeah, I mean, I like I don't know where you draw that line, but I've never actually done it. Audrey and I have talked about it before, and I mean I I definitely you know, especially if I get fired up on like a book or something, I'll just go out and I'll just gotta have it. Yeah, like it's just easy. And but I I don't know, I might I might want to try that. Like we're coming into the the new year, and I'm not like a new year resolution person, but yeah, just see what it's like. Yeah, just like okay, it's a good you know, that's the one thing about New Year's, is it is a good point to kind of like drop it. Yep. The problem is is before you get to these, I'm not gonna buy anything, it's almost like an excuse, like, oh well, you better get all your shit in. Right. Like you've wanted this for a while, just go ahead and get that, and then you bail after a month, and then you're like, oh great. So I just spent a bunch of money and now I'm right back in. I don't know though. I might want to I know it's not like feasible for us to do it as like a show thing because you literally buy things for your living. I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 48:32

Um well, and I'll I'll add a little extra shading after you've finished your point. Yeah, that is part of the vintage thing as well, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_02: 48:39

Yeah. I mean, I've I've I've really wanted to try it though. I just like you're you're talking about this, and I'm like thinking about yeah, I mean, I've like how many times have I bought shit to just hit get a dopamine hit or whatever. And I don't know. I mean, it's like look, this is not a novelty. There this is literally a massive trend on social media, just no spend or whatever. But I might I want to try it. Not not like I don't really I mean, obviously, like money is money, but like just to see if I can break that.

SPEAKER_01: 49:13

Like, oh, you need something. I think it would be especially interesting if like you still like you didn't say to yourself, Well, I'm not gonna go to Jackson Street, that you go and just like and you still walk out with nothing, even if it's really hard.

SPEAKER_00: 49:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 49:26

Um, or you know, go do your normal life and when that moment of decision comes that you're that you because you've made that commitment for the month or however long. I think you'd have to do like three to six months.

SPEAKER_02: 49:39

Like draw draw it out. Like, what do you see? Like, give me a challenge.

SPEAKER_01: 49:44

Or or do this, do this. Um every time you had an impulse to buy something and you knew that you normally would, take that money and like just like put it, you know, put it in something, like set it aside, like actually transfer the$14.12 that you would have spent on Amazon to like and just see how much money it adds up to.

SPEAKER_02: 50:03

I don't know if that would make the huge, like the big difference. Like, I mean, obviously, like the money is, but I don't know if I'm as financially motivated as it is just like I have a deep disagreement with because it's not like I'm I mean, you know, I'm buying books. Like I'm but like you can buy a shit ton of books for like a hundred bucks. Right. Like it's not like I'm out here buying thousands of dollars worth of you know whatever, but forty dollar paper uh hard covers fresh off the press. I mean, like, yeah, it's like you you can go to Jackson Street and buy 20 books and it's like a hundred bucks. Yeah, like which I'm not saying a hundred bucks isn't a lot of money, I'm just saying like I'm not like like a hundred bucks isn't gonna change anybody's life. Um, I mean, I I that sounds I don't know. Anyways, yeah. Um I mean, yeah, I mean draw it out. Like, I'd be curious, what what do you think? And then maybe I can come in and be like, okay, would I have trouble with that or this? Um I'm gonna have to buy asthma medication.

SPEAKER_01: 51:05

We gotta get a nebulizer or something.

SPEAKER_02: 51:08

It just hasn't got like it has like I'm running and I'm in pretty good shape right now, so I don't know why, but I just haven't lost the yeah, anyways. What would it look like to you? I I think I might try this, and then we could just literally check in on it for six months. This would hold me accountable, you could hold me accountable. God, six months, and just like you could I mean, yeah, you would almost be like my sponsor, yeah. Not thinking about buying no, but very little, very like I think it would just be an interesting experiment that you and I could just talk through. Yeah, like we just touch on it for like five minutes a show and just see how long I just I'm out.

SPEAKER_01: 51:51

It's only been 24 hours. That's how we gotta start this episode. I'm out. I'm out. Are you the master of your domain?

SPEAKER_02: 52:03

I'm gonna have to watch that after this. So good. Um yeah, I mean, what would it look like? Like in your mind. Like, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01: 52:13

I mean, I would probably just say like let's still like go see a movie and have some experience-based purchases.

SPEAKER_02: 52:22

Yeah, no, like I'm it's not yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 52:25

You know, maybe you just say to yourself like clothing, you know, more traditional products, clothing appliances, yeah, books, books, um yeah, anything. Anything.

SPEAKER_02: 52:42

I mean clothing, appliances. I mean, what do you buy though?

SPEAKER_01: 52:48

Books. Do you buy books? You buy you know, maybe some a little crusette thing, you know, like I like it's tough though.

SPEAKER_02: 52:57

Fucking like motorcycle shit, yeah. Like, I don't know. Car shit.

SPEAKER_01: 53:03

That's what's tough about like the thrift store and the estate sales. When you come across something good, you're like, this is never gonna be here again.

SPEAKER_02: 53:10

It sucks because I do buy, like, I don't really buy a lot, but no, other than books or like when I when I buy stuff, it's usually like, oh yeah, like I don't know. Like I buy some nonsense, trust. Like, don't get me wrong, but I do try to buy yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 53:29

Like well, could you like split it between like is this a needs-based purchase or is this a desire-based purchase?

SPEAKER_02: 53:37

And no desire-based purchases.

SPEAKER_01: 53:39

Yeah, and like like the La Crusette thing is like, I mean, yeah, could you get by with yeah, but it's like, I don't know, like you guys are building uh uh uh uh a uh a reasonable every book I buy, I'm building a library for my my kids. I know this is this is the rational. I'll tell you what my rationalization thing is here, but yeah, I don't know. I mean it's probably just easy to be like, look, any hard goods, I'm not buying them.

SPEAKER_02: 54:08

I think it's gotta be that. I think it's literally gotta be like and I mean maybe like if there is some weird thing I could just call you and just be like, hey, like what do you think about this? We chat about it for five, ten minutes. I mean, but I would love to do it just to see, like just to put myself to that. I mean, yeah, just make it work, you know, yeah, work with what you've got. Yeah, get creative with what you have. Like, you don't need something else. Look, take stock of what you have, get creative with it. End of story. Yeah. And it's just not an option. And just I would love to just kind of follow that. Yeah. Just be like, oh, yeah. You know, I went, yeah, we went to Jackson Street, we hung out, I really wanted this. They had this book that I, you know, super pumped about. And I, you know, I went home and I read one of the other books that's been sitting on the shelf waiting to be read for a while. Or yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 55:12

Yeah. I mean I mean, maybe I maybe I would I would I would just start with 30 days and then go from there and add on if you saw fit. I mean, six months is uh that's a big let's go January to like March.

SPEAKER_02: 55:25

That's a big commitment. January to March. Okay. And there's no summer and yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 55:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 55:35

And then I mean Yeah, it's like if if I have I don't know. Like if my shoes give out or something. This is what I mean.

SPEAKER_01: 55:47

If you need something, your running shoes get stolen, like you need to repair, you know, like report or something, and it's just yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 55:54

But yeah, I think honestly, what I could do is I could just make a list. Like anytime I buy, I purchase something, yeah, I can make a list. Yeah. And I think it goes for digital things too, like subscriptions, things like that. Sure. The only thing I see is we rent a lot of like movies on Amazon sometimes just because it's easier. Sure. I'll probably still do that.

SPEAKER_01: 56:15

I'll share it if I and that's tough because that's like you know, watching the movies and an enriching experience.

SPEAKER_02: 56:23

Especially, you know, that's like all we like we watch movies all the time. But yeah, I mean, no, like, oh, buy the subscription package or anything like that. Right. Yeah. I mean, I just I because I I kind of want to, and instead of instead of buying the thing, I'll just note down the urge and then we can talk about it. Cause you know, I'm just sitting here, I'm like thinking about like, oh man, like the consumerist of like fashion and da da da. And I'm just like, put your money where your mouth is, just like yeah, really see how it feels. Like, yep. I don't know. It sounds exciting. What were you saying? You're adjusting.

SPEAKER_01: 56:59

So this other aspect of it, you know, when you're out there at estate sales thrift stores picking, you know, picking through somebody's storage unit or something like that, like you can find stuff that is very valuable, and you can find stuff that also is going to gain value over time. So the action comics reference, you know, someone buying that is an appreciating asset, you know, 7 million, 7.4 million or whatever it's sold for in 20 years, it's going to be worth, you know, 50% more, double. I mean, who know, who knows what by then. And so some of these people are buying these things for that reason. And I have found that something that has crept into my brain when I have found something particularly good, especially if it's a combination of um high demand and rarity, where I'm like, well, I'm gonna keep this because it's just gonna go up in value. Now, this isn't like obviously a seven million dollar item that's gonna appreciate, even if it appreciated 25%, you're doing pretty good after 10 years or whatever. Um but I I like I I went to the thrift store and I made a video on my little vinyl project YouTube channel, and I call it a vinyl project because I'm not like trying to like be a vinyl YouTuber, I'm just documenting the stuff that I find. That's a great name. Is there a vinyl project channel? Um I almost like hooks, just like vinyl project. The vinyl project, yeah. That's interesting, that's cool, anyways. Sorry. But I went to the thrift store and randomly went through a box of 45s, and I almost never find anything good in the 45s. And if I do find something decent, like a heavy metal 45 or Pink Floyd or something, they're always scratched up and shitty. So I'm going through it, and um uh there's this yellow label, and it's a a label I didn't recognize, a record label I didn't recognize. So I look it up on Discogs, and this record has sold twice in the last few years for$500. This little$45 by a band called the Rogues out of David City, Nebraska in the 1960s. And I'm like, holy shit. Yeah. So kind of took it to the record short, talked to Mark, you know, was gonna sell it to somebody that was interested in it for like a hundred bucks, do a quick flip. And then Mark was like, I think you can sell this for like 500 bucks on discogs. I'm like, really? He's like, oh yeah. He's like, it's in great condition. And then so I put it in the the YouTube video and I threw it out to the viewers. I'm like, what should I do with this? Should I keep it or sell it? And almost everybody that comes is like, keep it. It's gonna go up in value. Tuck it away, and in like 20 years you'll have a right. So you think about the biggie jacket, the bomber, the the bomber jacket I picked up. You start combining again rarity due to age, demand because of rarity, cool factor, all that kind of stuff. Um, and yeah, I'll tell myself sometimes with a piece where I'm like, like this leather jacket I picked up today. I'm like, maybe I should just hang on to this, clean it up, wear it, enjoy it, appreciate it. And then, you know, when my estate sale time comes, or if I sell everything before that happens, I'm gonna have all the cool, the coolest shit. It's almost like like I think about the art collection at the at the Jocelyn. This lawyer, I think he was a lawyer, yeah, um, accumulated all this abstract art over the course of his life. Crazy shit. An amazing collection.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:47

Uh like he had basquiats. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:50

And I don't know if um it got it's on loan there or if his estate still holds it, if they bought it from him, bought some pieces, whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:59

It seems like it's a permanent collection. It seems like it was like absorbed by the music. Like maybe he just said when I donate he could have donated it. I think it was that, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:09

And um, there's an element of that to it, too. I mean, obviously it's not the same level, you know. They're not gonna be like, oh my god, like the stuff this guy got thrifting and going to estate sales, this rogues record and this leather jacket and this whatever, like we're gonna put this in the museum.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:25

Who knows how the you know context of what these items are will evolve over probably not because it is so mainstream already. Right. But yeah, I mean, definitely.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:37

But it's a katsuper product rather than a work of art. Although, you know, a comic book going for seven years.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:42

Well, I mean, that's kind of what we just we I think we titled the last episode. Like Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:47

Uh yeah, feel uh yeah, fe feelings and not objects. Yeah, not objects, yeah. So there's there's that extra layer that pokes into your brain that says, you know, like if I found a a cure concert shirt from 1986, you know, and it's worth 500 bucks, like part of me goes, maybe I should hang on to that. As something that's gonna gain value.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:15

I feel like you could almost sell it though, and like put it into a you know, SP 500 too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:24

And it could appreciate equally or more. I think there's an argument that it could more. That's part of what I was getting at with your no spending, like accumulate the money, and then like if I put this in the SP 500, you know, for the rest of my life, it would turn into 20 grand.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:41

Yeah. You know, I mean, and that that part's definitely like appealing, but I I think what's more appealing to me is the is the just the discipline of not the discipline and just the tracing the urge and not doing anything with it. Like, oh, I want this. Like, oh, I want to, you know. Like, yeah, you know, if you you don't need to buy new bourbon. Well, I good. Like you don't need to try a new thing. Like it, you you if you run out of something that you have, like you know, you can ri restock it, like I can restock the cutty or something, but yeah, you don't need to go out and just take that off the table. Yeah, it's not an option.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:18

And we talked about that. I I come up with that spectrum that made sense to me many episodes ago, but we talked about the spectrum of sacrifice and indulgence. And uh obviously you're gonna kind of bounce back and forth a little bit from one or the other, but what happens if you really go to one extreme? And I think you know extreme sacrifice, extreme indulgence can cause issues with relationships, it can cause issues with damage to your home. I mean, you know, who knows what? Uh both ways, indulging, filling your home with shit, or sacrificing not doing repairs and maintenance and stuff and things going bad. Um, and so you know, thinking of it in that context of saying to yourself, you know, maybe I have inched just incrementally toward indulgence in a couple categories of purchasing. And I'm gonna try to take a look at the mirror image of that for a month or two at three and see what just see what it feels like. Yeah, I'm just gonna start.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:22

I mean, I don't know if I'll start this month.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:25

Obviously, we've got no no Christmas present for you, Audrey. Sorry. Yeah, sorry. Alex is all a ploy to not have to buy Christmas presents. Yeah, this is just a I made a donation in your name to the human fund. The human fund. The run Seinfeld reruns after this fucking episode. Um just do the intro.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:47

Instead of ours, yeah. That's what I'll do. Um no, I I I just I think I'll I'll start and I'll just start not notching it down and we'll just touch on it for like five minutes. And I mean, yeah, I I don't know. I just I'm I'm curious. I'm curious, like because I remember the feeling when we left that uh a priori um the wardrobe theory and that the ward yeah, and I was like, oh, that would be interesting to try. And I buy new shit all the time. I bought like new hats over the last couple of months and like just stuff that I don't yeah, just really, you know, pay. Figure out how to use what you've got, and like that's it. And uh yeah, I think I might try it and just see where it goes. I mean, maybe I get a month, maybe I get two months, maybe I get three months, and maybe I you get, I mean, you know, momentum is what did I heard something recently. It was like momentum is a spiritual quality or something, or spiritual energy or something.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:47

It's that's cool. You see more, yeah. Stacking wins, yeah. You yeah, I I think there is something about that. And I think I think that where I am right now, which is probably much more in a state of these indulgences, like, and then trying to rationalize them because it's like you're trying to figure out if it can be a viable sort of business pursuit. Like, can I purchase all this vintage stuff from um music to clothing, um cameras, and have a big element of that be reselling for profit to earn revenue, but still somehow like keep it in a in a in a in a place of rational thought discipline, um, or is it just gonna be a mess?

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:49

Uh, and I think the jury's still out on that a little bit because you know, just like you're talking about experimenting too with this this this uh this idea of not buying anything. I think I am in a state of experimentation, like how far can I take this before there's like because here's the other element of it. You know, you start trying to find the wall. Well, you start buying vintage stuff, you know, from a VCR to a TV to a record, like there's a lot of work that goes into getting them ready to sell. You gotta wash them, you gotta sometimes get them tailored, you gotta do repairs, you gotta clean the record, you gotta just clean the VCR. And you know, that by itself might only take 20 minutes, but if you have 12 electronics that you have to get, whatever, and then you've got a hundred articles of clothing that not only need to be cleaned or dealt with, photographed, listed on eBay, double listed on Depop, um, you can get yourself into a state, and this is part of what I'm clocking right now, this state of perpetual buzzing of over being overwhelmed, just feeling generally overwhelmed. And just creating a bunch of arbitrary tasks for yourself that have no and then none of the items are so massively profitable that you sell one and it covers your expenses for two or three months, and you can just be very selective. You know, you're you know, I'm in a state right now where I'm more going for volume, but I'm also learning like what's the stuff that really has a high sell-through rate? What's the stuff that doesn't sell for shit? Um, what stuff do I tend to keep that probably does have a high sell-through rate and more profitability? And how does that negatively impact what you're doing? You know, all this kind of stuff. Um, but then at the same time, you're having fun, you're outdoors, you're meeting all these people, you're, you know, you're getting so much fulfillment in other areas. But again, it's it's a it's a lot of uh upheaval and chaos and um and sort of the opposite side of the spectrum of where things were, you know, two plus three years ago. So it's fun to sort of like be aware enough to clock all that, but it's also a lot to manage. And I think you know, stress levels have ticked up while money has gotten better from combining this with YouTube and other things. Um you're certainly not like hey, this is working great. Um money's rolling in. Uh my my my sort of what's all on my plate to do as far as daily tasks, all that stuff. I mean, like, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:32

So getting, yeah. Do you think you'll have to like reassess going into we should do it, we should do so. Matt and I used to do this thing probably I think from like 2019 to like 2023 or 20. I mean, honestly, like right before this podcast. Yeah, the the annual goals and get together. And I think at some point we just looked at each other and we're like, this is silly. Like not in like a I mean not in a bad way, but it was just it it kind of got to where it was just like it was like hustle borne kind of like like oh these are the metrics I'm trying to optimize, and we were just kind of like Yeah, I don't know, the headspace changed.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:14

You know what I I did find I think I did find that um for me personally, the way that I approached it where I it was more less like the metrics toward the end, and it was more like what do I want my life to look and feel like? And I would describe, you know, describe it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:34

Well I remember when we made that shift, and then we never continued it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:39

I would almost like to I guess we've kind of done podcasts in the past where it's like like I think I can't recall, but I feel like maybe in the first year we might have done something.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:49

I think we should do it for an episode.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:50

I do too. Okay, so and we it's just literally like we'll just have that con, like we'll do it on a in the day, we'll do a day episode coffee, just like we used. We used to actually like go to a coffee shop, and I think we just yeah, like, hey, what like what do we see? Yeah, and then I mean again, it's going back to that episode from a few weeks ago where it's just like this is a great way for us to kind of hold ourselves accountable and like explore things outside of our own interpersonal dialogue, and I think part of why we got away from it was the other participants either fell off or they didn't really do it the way that maybe at least I was hoping that they would.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:36

Yeah. Um and and not that they necess didn't necessarily take it seriously, but I I because I don't want to sound disparaging about their participation in it, but I feel like I had a grasp of it to where I really wanted to go pretty deep into the specifics of what I wanted my life to look and feel like for myself. Yeah. And sort of like what if if it looked and felt like that, what are some of the results of it? And so it could be everything from more intimacy with my wife to it's it's easier for us to decide to go away for a three-day weekend or something, you know, all these little details. Um and I think that would be interesting because with the last two years being a little bit more upheaval, chaotic, experimentation, and all that. I think part of that honestly is from getting away from having some kind of a I don't want to say foundation or goal setting to me sounds like$120,000 a year and gross revenue and 80,000 subscriber growth, you know. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:46

Well, and I think that's kind of what killed it for us originally. Yeah. And kind of metric based push towards goal setting. We're gonna shift to do this. And then once once we did we decided we wanted to do it more this other way, for some reason it just kind of lagged and didn't didn't continue.

unknown: 1:13:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:04

And I think that's helped me get away from exercise, which I think about all the time. I'm not walking, I'm not doing any strength training anymore. Um diet, nothing crazy, but definitely a little more carbs and candy and stuff like that, you know, stuff that that that was not and again there was a little groove where discipline was at the forefront. I felt great, mental health was good, consumption of stuff was lower, things you know, things in some of the big categories were really good. It just wasn't I just wasn't feeling as fulfilled, like you know, and and now that I have a lot of fulfillment, all that stuff's a mess. So I kind of want to figure out like how to bring them how to sort of meld the two now. Yeah. If every instinct you have in your life was wrong, do the opposite. And by logic, the opposite would be right.