Studio Sessions
Discussions about art and the creative process. New episodes every other week.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
Studio Sessions
66. Back to Square One
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We catch up on the gallery space that didn't come together — not because of conflict, but because the arrangement shifted enough that the original vision no longer fit. What stings isn't the logistics, it's the built-in community that came with that particular spot, and the version of things we'd already started imagining.
From there the conversation turns inward. We're both feeling the gap between talking about making work and actually making it — the pull to get back out with a camera, the fatigue of looking at old sequences, and what it means when commerce brain starts crowding out everything else. We end up somewhere around the question of what art even is — Tolstoy's definition, the transcendentalist framing, Rick Rubin and George Saunders on process — and whether finding your own answer to that matters more than finding the right one. -Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
I may have told you and even shown you that it had a NICOR SC fifty millimeter one point four lens on it. Well, uh I sold it on eBay for like four hundred and twenty-five dollars to somebody in Switzerland. And I've had some videos about overhauling that camera on my TikTok and on my Instagram reels, and someone posted a message about this lens on TikTok and said, you know, that's a really special lens. So this is the lens that Robert Frank shot the Americans with.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, really? Yes. Not like this wasn't the lens.
SPEAKER_03:Not the lens he held in his hand. It is the lens. Not only that, but this one is much rarer because it is the nippon. And for those listening and watching, I'm holding my iPhone with a picture of the lens. Of what once was. Of what once was. This is a very early version of it because it says Nippon Kogaku Tokyo. And the later ones don't say Tokyo, they say whatever other city they started making them in. And then the guy said, and your serial number is really low on that one. So you have one of the earliest, most rare versions of that lens. And then I remember it sold to Switzerland. And I did some research, and there just so happens to be an institution there called the Camera Museum. And I am 99% certain that they bought this lens. Not only because it's the lens that Robert Frank used, but it's a very rare version of a very famous lens. And you had it. And I had it in your basement for like a year. Threw it up on eBay for 450 bucks, and this person offered me 425 and I took it. Now, other versions of this lens, the later one that says so. Then I went back and looked on eBay, and sure enough, they don't say Tokyo, the ones that all sold for$400-ish dollars. And the serial number is much higher. So I'm like, oh, did I make a big mistake here? Now I don't know if it's like a$10,000 big mistake or if it's like, you know, a$500 big mistake.
SPEAKER_04:Just cool to have.
SPEAKER_03:And just cool to have. And had I known that Robert Frank shot with it, would I have you know at least shot a few rolls in on a like a um Barnack camera? And I don't think it was the 3F exactly. It may have been.
SPEAKER_04:Just be like, hey, just want you to know, like, this is a very special lens.
SPEAKER_03:I didn't do too much digging, but eBay removes like the name and address of the person who bought it. Uh maybe there's some way to get it, I don't know. But um, you know, I don't like keep a copy of the mailing slip, you know. And even when you mail to Switzerland, like you you ship it to like someplace in Chicago, and then eBay takes care of getting it out to foreign countries to make that process easier for the side.
SPEAKER_04:There's only one way to find out. We have to go to Switzerland. We have to go visit the camera museum and find your lens.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's my lens. How much would you value that at? Uh uh That's oh priceless.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, over a million, certainly. So um this is actually this is the lens that Robert Frank used.
SPEAKER_03:This is the exact serial number. We have this photo of Robert Frank using it. You'll see this reflection if you zoom in. This is usually so it seems like the person you bought this from in Omaha had met Robert Frank and he gave him the lens. He mugged Robert Frank.
SPEAKER_04:Robert Frank actually got robbed in Omaha in 1974.
SPEAKER_03:And I brought this up to you because um we were at Jackson Street Books, and there were two Robert Frank books in like sort of their new arrivals section at the front of the store. And I was like, I should probably tell you about that. I actually didn't like text it to you or anything because I was like, I'll just wait to tell you in person. And then I waited to tell you in person on YouTube.
SPEAKER_04:So are you gonna let are you gonna let just kind of let it go? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna mess around with it. It was the$300,000 lens, it's fine.
SPEAKER_03:Yep. So I'm really trying to be very careful with how quickly I let things go and not to spend too much time on it, but I picked up the other day at a thrift store um this brand called West Coast Choppers. They make clothing, hoodies, t-shirts, and all that.
SPEAKER_04:Is that the American Chopper?
SPEAKER_03:No, this is uh Jesse James, I think. Oh yeah. That guy. Yeah. Um, and uh their clothing is very valuable, you know, and it's you know, a t-shirt, you know, depending on which one, you know, you're in the I don't know,$50 to$100 plus dollar range. It's not like it's like thousands of dollars. Motorcycle tees are so yeah, the motorcycle stuff and then Harley, all that is yeah, a big deal. So I saw, you know, going through the thrift store and I see this hoodie at the end of the rack, and there were some things that made me think that it had issues or whatever, but it ended up not. And uh I looked up prices that it had sold for on eBay, and it was$150 and$250, so not crazy money, but then there's this vintage clothing um uh brand called Bid Stitch, and they have Instagram and YouTube and all that stuff, and they had put on Instagram a post where a rarer version of a West Coast Chopper's hoodie sold for$2,500. And while mine wasn't that one, it is uh a specific line of um of hoodies that they made, this Choppers for Life um little run that they did. And so I put it out on Instagram and I did list it on eBay for like$1,300. That's not what I was expecting to get for it, but I was just curious if people would start submitting offers on it. So the highest offer I've gotten is like$280 for it, and I'm just trying to be careful because of this lens to not just put it up at the sort of first knee-jerk thought of what it's worth. And so yesterday, yesterday, yeah, I was up in Fremont at this estate sale dispersal store that does and they open once a month and they just have a bunch of stuff that they've gotten from different estate sales that didn't sell or whatever, and they sell it in the store. And I'm looking through the electronics and I grab some camera stuff per usual. Um, and actually got uh uh it's not like super rare, but I never see it, a 24 millimeter Canon FD lens. Usually you I only see 50 millimeter and then up or zoom lenses. Um, it took me a long time to get a 35 millimeter and a 28 millimeter, and now there's this 28 24 millimeter. So I'm like, oh cool, great. Then I go to this other shelf, and there's a sealed copy of Donkey Kong 64 for the Nintendo 64 with this special um uh I think it's called an expansion pack. It's a little doohickey you put a Nintendo 64 and it unlocks new shit that you can do. And I'm like, okay, well, what's this worth? I paid$30 for it. So I look it up on eBay, and uh uh a version of it with the box and the instruction manual and the game cartridge and all that sells for like 150 bucks. So I'm like thinking, well, I'll photograph this and get my money back and all that stuff. And then I'm like, well, I didn't check what sealed copies sell for. So I look up sealed copies. There's two that have sold in the last 60 days or whatever. Um, one that was sealed but not graded, like somebody didn't send it off to have it professionally graded and slabbed, what they call slabbed, sold for a thousand dollars. And then the slabbed one that was graded at a 9.4 out of 10 in condition sold for$1,500. So I'm like, this obviously isn't a 9.4, it had some little dings and whatever, but it's a sealed copy of this game.
SPEAKER_04:Are you gonna get it graded?
SPEAKER_03:Are you gonna I don't think it's worth it because it's a little crumpled and there's some dings in it. I'd rather just not because it's like 200 bucks to get something graded and slabbed. It might be even more for a video game because it's so much bigger. Like people pay like a hundred to a hundred to two hundred dollars to have like a Pokemon card graded and slapped. So I'm like, I don't know if I'll mess with this. Plus, for sometimes it takes like six months to get it back. Yeah, so I'm like, I'd rather just put it up on eBay for twelve twelve hundred dollars and see what offers I get. Anyway, so my first instinct was like, oh yeah, 150 bucks, let's just throw it up there. Someone would have bought it in a heartbeat. And actually, I I made a mistake too with this 1950s um post-World War II uh heavy wind heavy winter flight coat, I think it's called an N3B flight coat. And I put it up on eBay for like 90 bucks and someone bought it immediately. Yeah, and whenever somebody buys something on eBay right away, it's usually a sign that you didn't price it high enough. Yeah, so I go back and really do the research on it, and sure enough, the jacket sells all day long for like$250 to$500, and I'm like, you dumbass. So they immediately took it. Yeah, immediately took it. Put it back, yeah. Yeah. And bought it. I think it went to Japan.
SPEAKER_04:A Japanese buyer bought it. That's hilarious. Like even today, just down at the shop, yeah. People like um next door is like, yeah, got this for five bucks, gonna probably resell it for 30 or whatever.
SPEAKER_03:Yep. So yeah, you gotta do your due diligence, especially with some of this older stuff so that you don't miss something. You don't miss something special. Um I was also gonna say related to the camera stuff, that I sent off my Nikon S rangefinder. I finally, not like it was a super hard search, but I found a a place um that can do a CLA on that camera. I was hoping to find somebody that was like an expert on Nikon rangefinders. Kind of like with the Leica, I sent it off to Yujin Yi. He's he just does Leica cameras and he's very well known for that. But and I didn't do a ton of research, but I wasn't able to find someone that specializes in Nikon. So it's down in Austin, Texas at Precision Camera. I'm surprised you didn't take it old, Kevin Walker. He he still has a camera of mine that I gave him over a year ago before his heart attack. Yeah. So and he keeps taking more cameras in, but he's just he's just um I think he's just changed a lot after his heart his heart attack. And um I don't know, isn't as focused on getting through those cameras that are in there. I should probably just go and get the camera back. I mean it's yeah, it's a little Olympus stylus, uh Infinity stylus, but it you know, it doesn't work properly, but it's not worth a ton. But so I'm hoping to get the Nikon S back in the next couple of weeks, and then uh I will have that as another camera that I can go out and shoot with because it's pretty cool. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So I got the uh dark home. Our last episode. That's a sweet topo label, by the way. Did you see that one? Good. Oh yeah. What does that say? Chattanooga Chico? It says what is that? Chatopo Chico. Oh, Chitopo. Yeah. That's cool. C-I-A-Topo Chico. That's sweet.
SPEAKER_03:Um update our gallery. Yeah, so two part ep two part two-part podcast uh talking all about it, and yeah, things have changed.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so Matt and I had a massive argument. No, I'm just kidding. We I threw a chair, it got heated. It's actually that's why we didn't do an episode so long. Alex is healing.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. Yeah, and I had a court mandate.
SPEAKER_04:Yep, you get a restraining order for a bit. It was rough. Very rough. We um no, I mean, I don't know, I feel like you'll handle it more diplomatically. Plus, you're you're closer, you kind of played point on it. Yeah, well, yeah, and you So I was out of town for most of the, I guess, person to person negotiations or whatever, but long story short, yeah, things didn't work out as planned, or things kind of got the original agreement was not respected, and that's not the person who we made it to with fault. But yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah, the circumstances changed a little bit, and without getting into the details, it's it's not like um like like a big contentious thing or people were, you know, fighting or anything like that, but um, the space that we were going to use um the sort of uh the access to it shifted a little bit because the artist that was in there working um w had an opportunity to basically take over the space before the lease was up. And instead of us having half the space essentially to ourselves where we could do what we wanted with it and uh and and sort of pay for that privilege, um the the agreement shifted to where we would have to work with the other tenant to share that part of the space. And we could have still moved forward with doing the gallery under those circumstances, but you know, knowing we'd both be paying.
SPEAKER_04:A bit drastically different than our original vision, intention. And it was just getting um and there were a bit of like uh there was a bit of like nannying going on, or maybe just curation on not on our path.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, just um just a little bit of um it felt like all of the decisions that would be made about how the space would be used would have to be done in committee, basically. And that um that person would have sort of equal weight, if not slightly more weight than us in the decision-making process because they were there before us. And um and we liked obviously the previous arrangement, which was a little bit more relaxed, but because we were paying the bulk of the rent for the entire space, we were in the driver's seat with how we could use it. Um and the space would have been partitioned uh with like a curtain so that for that, and we we could basically go come and go as we pleased. Um so because of that shift, we decided not to move forward with what we were going to do, and now we don't have any any place to showcase the work and create what we were hoping to create, which was uh a gathering place, even if just for a few months, uh, and uh other opportunities potentially for photographers to display their work um in the space as well.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's it sounds like I don't know, like listening, you might be there, might be like the oh well, it was gonna be a co-op anyways, it was gonna be a collaborative effort. And yeah, that's true, but it wasn't I it's different when it's around photography versus when it's you are the means to somebody else's dream. Yeah. Which that's kind of what the the relationship shifted into is to we were just we were a means to an end for the person who was in that space.
SPEAKER_03:We yeah, we were we were a tool to make the financial commitment less um intense, less risky, less uh burdensome to them.
SPEAKER_04:Rather than like, oh, we're gonna go in and and I you could say that kind of about the original agreement, but it's it just the relationship with that person is different. There's a there's a bit of an understanding there, a silent understanding that wasn't really present. So I don't know, shit happens. Yeah. If anybody has a space out there and happens to watch this show, which is like a zero percent chance.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. But yeah, we've you know, we had talked part of why we got excited about this space was because we had talked for a while about finding some space that was available, but even if it was rough, like uh like a a a commercial space that had been vacated and they were looking for a long-term renter, but wanted to make some cash in a sort of low-stakes agreement for us to be able to use the space for a few events, you know, a gallery type thing, and and we would essentially use the space as is. We wouldn't necessarily like move a ton of stuff in and like need to paint or do any of that stuff. I I personally was excited about just sort of embracing the space as it was and sort of working with it to display photos and and hang out with friends there and and start sharing the work and um bringing the photography and mainly more street photography or artistic photography community together. And uh then this happened, then it went away, and now we're if we want to do this in some other way, we have to find something like that again.
SPEAKER_04:It would have been cool though, especially as we've been like hanging out down there on Fridays and stuff, just in in Josh's shop. Like it would have been sweet to just like go next door and well, like on a night. We would have probably gone and hung out tonight, right? It's like you invite, you know, you invite some people and come hang out. It's like what we were doing in the shop, but it's kind of more ours. Right.
SPEAKER_03:There's more of like uh it's your music, it's your furniture, it's your work that's up. Um probably would have just done this, yeah. And you know, it could be conversations about photography, it could be showing each other's work, it could be photography books, it could be can't, you know, gear. Yeah. Um and then, you know, like in a really exciting situation, it could be like we were down there at the shop, I was loading a new inventory, you were hanging out, um, you know, a few customers coming by, uh, hanging out with Josh, talking to Stefan, grab something to eat. And then there was, and then there was like a formal thing that we were gonna do. We're like gonna get, hey, all you know, come on down, we're gonna have like music and you know, some food and drinks and stuff, and like just check out the check out the work, and anybody can come in off the street. And we've also invited 25 people to come check this out.
SPEAKER_04:That's what was more exciting about that particular space than anything, is just the built-in community. Yeah, like that's what's kind of a bummer. Like, I don't know the person that's in there right now very well, but it does seem like like I've never I've been down there and I've met everybody. Yeah, yeah, had never have talked to him. Yeah. And so it's just like, yeah, I don't know, it's just a shame. Like I feel like it would have been sick to just that space would have been completely transient and open and yeah. I don't know, maybe it'll still happen.
SPEAKER_03:We'll see. Yeah. And, you know, fortunately for the person who's in there, you know, I have no hard feelings and we still talk and, you know, are, you know, friendly with each other. And I, you know, I've I go into the space and check it out because I'm really excited about his work and what he's got going on. Um, I know he's gonna do really he is doing really cool stuff. He's collaborating with people. Um uh a person in the restaurant keeping it.
SPEAKER_04:Me though, I broke one of his windows.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, smashed it through a flaming bag of shit on his doorstep.
SPEAKER_04:Um yeah, no, it's it's no hard feelings. I don't know. It's it's like just uh it stinks, like it would have been cool. Yeah, yeah. I I I I hope that space comes available. Like I even thought about like, oh, what if we I mean, and we've talked about there's other spots too. Yeah, it it it is just kind of like the built-in community of that spot, right? Which is cool. Um, you know, like if we if we had something like a little more formal in Xarbon or something, like that could be cool. Yeah. Um by like a priori, but it's like you know, is that community the same? That kind of I don't know, though it's just right. It's like you can walk in there anytime. And there they're there's it seems like like Stefan's more at workshop and then is or is it just kind of all over the place?
SPEAKER_03:It's hard uh to to tell. I I think it's probably more of an even split, but he's also going back to school, so he's probably gonna lean into some of their employees a bit more. Doxing all of his personal life on that. No, I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_04:I think it's public information than he does. But yeah, yeah, uh yeah, I don't know. It's just it's cool. There's something to be right there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and there's something about the old market, the the history there, and sort of you know, there's not much about the old market that I feel like has I don't know, there's there's nothing there where I'm like bummed that that's that thing is there, you know. Like I could bag on scooters or spaghetti works, you know, like not every restaurant's gonna be artistic.
SPEAKER_04:Most of the shops are kind of mad too, but like it is there is like that. I it's more Jackson Street, yeah. Is cool. Yeah, like you get into the old market and it's like uh yeah. But Jackson Street is just special.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, that that that south end of the old market is is is good. Um I like it all. I don't really I don't really have anything where I'm like you know, there's not like a Starbucks down there, you know, or I mean the boom deli. Yeah, yeah, that didn't work out. But um so yeah, I just I just like the vibe down there, and I always have, and it's it's been really cool to feel like I'm a part of it with what I'm doing with Josh at Lost, and then you know, Alex, you and Audrey have been down there just doing your own thing with going to the deli or going to Jackson Street, and now you're integrating a little bit more with hanging out at the shop and getting to know Josh and Stefan and Trey and all those guys down there, and it's just fun. And then I have my connections with homers and grapefruit, you know, the record shops doing business with them. Um, so it's just yeah, it's fun to go down there and park and like be a small part of it. Yeah, and I was excited, especially for you, to be a bigger part of it by having that space down there, shooting more street down there, all the stuff that we were gonna do, and um, we're gonna have to find another way to figure that out.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, maybe an opportunity will come back up. Yeah, we just need to start like subtly, oh man, there's just really great space available here would be great for pottery. And I'm really hoping too that maybe maybe it will be wildly successful and he'll want to move to like a better storefront.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think I think it's certainly possible, and and I think that would be the biggest scenario for all the biggest issues he faces that there's not, you know, there isn't like a restroom in there, there isn't um like you know, easily accessible running water and sinks and all that kind of all that kind of stuff. Now it it could be that he does well and he works with the landlords to have that stuff installed because he likes that spot, or like you said, he's able to find a different space, but um we'll see. In March, Josh is Josh's lease is up, and if um this person takes it over, then they take it over. Uh and then if they decide to move on from that, if they do like a month-to-month thing, then it could be available again. Now, is that something that we would we would some sign a big lease for without there being like in a sense some kind of stronger commercial aspect to it? Uh, I know that that would be very difficult for me to go in$400,$500 a month on something that was if it was month to month at first. It would have to be that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. Yes, we will. What else do we have? We've been floating around here. Oh man. What's what's been what's been going on in your neck of the woods? What you been thinking about?
SPEAKER_03:I've been thinking about hiding. I I I haven't been out taking any pictures. I have all these projects that I want to continue or start, and um I haven't done it. Yeah. Yeah. And with that Leica all done and ready and completely CLA'd and refurbished and all that stuff. I haven't loaded one roll of film into it.
SPEAKER_04:We gotta get you into uh you should you should join this dark room that I joined and yeah, we'll talk about that. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to like point out where it is or anything, but yeah, there's a dark room in Omaha. I uh I joined it and yeah, it's just uh I've got you know got a new batch of chemicals. My chemicals were like four years old, five years old at this point. Um I'm like starting to unbox all my old negatives and cut them and put them into sleeves and get a bit of organization going. Yeah. Um and then yeah, I mean, once I kind of have an idea of what I'm looking at, um I bought a bunch of Tri-X 24 rolls instead of 36, which I meant to do, I start doing a long time ago, but yeah, I still have a shit ton of film in my fridge, but most of it's like Portrait 800, which is worth probably I could probably sell it all million dollars. It's like silver price. Yeah, yeah, legit. It's probably it's the only thing that's outpaced silver in like the last five months. It's Portra 800. Um, no, in all seriousness though, um, I was talking to a buddy of mine and he hasn't shot for a while, and um recently started looking around and was like, oh, maybe I'll get a Rico or something, and just some you know, something pretty low stakes, easy to use. And so he he was developing film again, and then um we were on the phone and he's like going looking at film for the first time, and like I mean, this was somebody like we used to shoot like ultra max. This was like in like 2016, we'd shoot like Ultra Max or something, I guess 2017 or whatever. But like, yeah, like almost 10 years ago, film was very differently priced. Yes, you get it from like Walgreens and eight bucks a roll. Yeah, he's he's on the phone with me, and he's like, Holy shit. Yeah, dude. It's like 14 a roll. Yeah, Portra is like$20 or something. I'm like, yeah, that's it's about right.
SPEAKER_03:So I mean, I was getting Ultra Max at Walgreens within the last 18 months for nine bucks a roll.
SPEAKER_04:Well, so okay, one thing, if anybody helped can help me out with this, and I mean I know like I don't really like asking for advice, but I might get like a personal experience um because it's hard to find shit like this on Reddit or whatever. Um I was thinking about essentially rolling my own film and like buying a loader, doing my like self-loading, and it it would just be Tri-X. That's all I really care to shoot. It's just easier to develop and it's easier to it's just the whole thing, easier to push, pull, it's cheaper. Um, and I like the look of it just fine. Um, does anybody have any experience with self-loading and more so what canisters can I use? Because I've heard that all of like the plastic canisters that are for sale today stink. Yeah, like they're just not good. The felt is like you you get 10 of them and like there's an 80% failure rate in some of these brands. So if anybody has any guidance for me on that, it would be appreciated. Um because I don't want to I don't want it to be so prohibitive, yeah, that I just don't do it. I have a shh I don't mind just buying 24 roll of triecks.
SPEAKER_03:I have a shit ton of expired film in my fridge. Yeah. That you can I mean, I don't know if those canisters from the 80s and stuff are better. I mean, some of them are plastic, I don't know if any of them are metal. Yeah. But you know, you can tear all the film out of there and reuse them if that's something that's yeah, it's and that's like like can I reuse?
SPEAKER_04:Like, how do you reuse a canister? What's the best way to do that? That's kind of what I so anyways, any guidance? I mean, if anybody just wants to leave me a message, and even if you're just like, hey, leave me a message and I don't know. I don't well, FaceTime or something. I I don't know. I like I'm sure I can find information on it if I looked harder. I don't think people have said, like, oh, go get the old Leica or the old Kodak um reloadable canisters. But they're like 50 bucks a pop on eBay. Yeah. And I mean I'm gonna need at least if I'm doing 36 rolls, which I like doing 24 rolls, I just it's just an ideal amount because you can push or pull a lot easier. It's easier to if I need to blow 10 shots, it's easier to you know be at 14 and blow 10 than it is to be at 14 and get to 36.
SPEAKER_03:So um, yeah, I don't know if anybody has any advice. And I can't remember if Jason at Grainy Days has a video about because he bulk rolls, buys in bulk, and then rolls his own film. He does, yeah. Interesting. Um I think he did it with ectachrome. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So I don't know. That's the other thing too about if you send off to a lab, you have to be like, hey, don't please don't.
SPEAKER_03:I think he mentioned like in one video too.
SPEAKER_04:Because I've heard a lot of people they'll just it'll slip their mind and they'll send off. And then they toss it. And then they toss them and they're like, oh fuck. Like it's not like you can call the lab and be like, hey, remember that thing you processed at some point in the last four weeks?
SPEAKER_03:Take it out of the garbage bin that's full of canisters. Yep. So well, and I know um Justin at Midwest Film Company rolls, yeah. So maybe his can he has some canister tips for it.
SPEAKER_04:Because he's doing um, that's a good I that's who I'll call. Yeah, he's doing vision three. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Is he removing the layer or is he leaving it no, no? He processes it ECN. Yeah. And uh that's what I've been buying because it's twelve or thirteen dollars a roll. Yeah, because he's buying it in motion picture spools and just the only time it bit me was I I had a roll in my F1 and I tried to goose it for a couple extra frames, and I got to the end, and when I did the film advance, it pulled the film out of the canister in the camera. Oh Jesus. Like it just it because you know there's there's something in there, however, that gives yeah, that gives it and that came out, and so the roll came completely out of the canister. No, I'm a dumbass, and I rewound it, and I'm like, oh, okay, we're good. And then I popped it open, all the film sitting there. Damn. I think I talked about it on a podcast actually. It was the bulk of it was all the interior photos I did at my grandma's house after she passed away to capture the house as is. And so those are all gone. Yeah, yeah. Wasn't meant to be.
SPEAKER_04:See, stuff like that, just I don't know. And that was also juices worth the squeeze. It's like I think I was paying something like seven dollars a roll for the 24 rolls. Yeah. Which obviously, like, that's not an inconsequential amount of money, but I just got greedy though. I don't shoot, I don't shoot a ton either. Like, I mean, I I do take a lot, like I'll burn through a roll if I if I find a good situation, but yeah, I mean, there'll be days when I'm like you'll walk around with me and it's like, oh yeah, I took 13 photos in six hours or something. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So and that's usually how I am with film anyway. Just I just I just um edit editing, you know, what I see and what I'm gonna shoot much more than if I'm shooting digital.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But I yeah, I deeply miss being out there, not just only for the times that we walk around and do it, but all the different um times I was out with uh stuff for the photo videos channel, shooting different areas of town and then doing video as well and making those into videos. I haven't put a video together for that channel in probably nine to ten months. And I have a few that I can edit and put together, but I haven't gone out and and done it because I've just been caught up with trying to get everything out lost off the ground and getting my life figured out with creating content and YouTube channels and all that kind of stuff. Um so I I've really it's it's really been hard to not be out there more regularly shooting. Um so I need to get back to that. No, 100%. And I had, you know, that that last time I was doing it consistently had some you know just really cool opportunities. I was in Poland and shot there. I was in Las Vegas for NAB, which I'm going to in two months again. Um and uh there's all kinds of different areas around Omaha and the surrounding smaller towns that I want to go and just shoot all day long. But I feel like I I just feel like I need to be focusing more on revenue growth than than that kind of stuff. So whatever. I'll get it figured out. We'll get there.
SPEAKER_04:I feel like we should like revisit our um our goals episode. Oh yeah. See how that's going in a couple months. I don't remember. I mean, like I obviously I remember, but like yeah, I'd like to actually watch it and like note down what the specifics were. Like off the top of my head, I don't have the hyper specifics, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, just in general, I would say that I'm doing fairly well with what I set out, you know. Um you know, uh there's things like my studio's pretty messy right now, which I don't want. Um uh revenue. Reven revenue's been pretty good so far this year, so that's good. Um and uh you know, personally, just with the the year resetting, I feel really good about kicking off the year in uh a more focused and disciplined way. Uh if anything, I just feel like I'm not out making the more meaningful work the way that I want to. And then I'm also um haven't been as consistent as I want to be with exercise. Um the walking part has really fallen off, but I'm still doing my strength strength training three days a week. Um not perfectly, but uh but that's been a little bit more consistent. So there's still room for improvement. I just don't want like the the excitement of the beginning of the year to um to throw me off. And then with the weather here, it's like it feels like all of a sudden it's May.
SPEAKER_04:It's just crazy. It was like 70 today.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean so you know, we basically have not have not had really any meaningful winter weather here. We had a couple cold snaps, yeah, a little dusting of snow here and there, under under yeah, zero or whatever. Maybe two weeks of like really cold weather, not all at once, but you know, the uh uh roughly two weeks. But the last week or so we've had snow after Thanksgiving. Yeah, and the last couple weeks we've had temperatures as high as 70 and you know, in the upper 40s and 50s. I mean, today you you we could have walked around the old market with you know short sleeves and yeah, short sleeves, a light jacket, and been perfectly comfortable. So that's kind of throwing me off. Usually, this is the time where you know my walks are easy because you don't get all sweaty and gross because it's so cold out. It's easier to be inside working because it's not that nice out. But now I'm like feeling all yeah, I just want to get outside, I want to go shoot, I want to go explore, I want to go treasure hunt, I want to do everything that isn't sit at my computer and make videos.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So yeah. If I'm it seems like I'm yawning a lot, it's because it's literally like 10 o'clock.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, getting close, 9 30. Uh so how about you on your uh I don't know, man.
SPEAKER_04:I'm I mean, yeah, I feel like the last couple weeks we were gone for a long time. The last couple weeks, we've just kind of been getting back into into rhythm here. So we'll see how that goes. Um I mean, yeah, I probably report back like next time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, maybe in a few a little bit longer to talk about other things. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But I mean, yeah, you know, I can't complain too much. It's been fun. Like we did uh, you know, we've done a couple movie nights and just feel like there's been a lot more community this year. Even in the short period of time that I've I mean, I've literally have only been in Omaha for like nine days of these of 2026. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, last night hanging out was great. And I I I did have a moment of reflection where I'm like, man, it's just so cool. And I was uh some people were abs, you know, weren't able to make it, but uh so cool to be able to just have so much rapport and comfort with all of you guys hanging out in uh you know your home, yeah, watching a movie, having you know a smart conversation about it um afterwards. Smart conversation about it to find I mean you know you know you're you're talking we didn't get we didn't like get podcast in depth with everything, but you know, people are are I was and I wasn't I wasn't pointed at other people that was pointed at myself by the way it was good, it was good.
SPEAKER_04:Um it was a lot of fun, and I mean, yeah, even just like like got together with some good friends to watch the Super Bowl. Nice. Um sorry was awful, dude. Um yeah, I mean it's just been yeah, it's been fun. I feel like we've had a lot of hanging out at the shop last couple of weeks. Um you finished your website? I did, I did I did finish that. See, that almost felt like not a big deal. It is cool, like everything works.
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah, it looks great.
SPEAKER_04:Everything, I mean, knock on wood again, but like it seems like everything works, like it's all functional, which was the biggest thing. I mean, it's not like there's not a ton on there, yeah. But all the features that are on there work, which is pretty cool. So um, yeah, no, I mean that was big. I've been working on that for a while, I guess. Yes, you have. Yeah, that's cool. Now but now it's like just empty, like it needs to be populated right now. Right, you gotta start stuff, so I gotta be careful. But it is nice, it's it's like it's the first time that I really feel like I actually kind of have an outlet that's completely not reliant on social media, and which is a good timing because yeah, it's like I just deleted one of my like Instagram accounts that I had for a long time. Obviously deleted Facebook last year. Um the mid-by is still there. Okay. I mean it hasn't been used in years, but um I don't know if I will ever.
SPEAKER_03:I can just tag you and it just the notification goes into the event nowhere.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know if I'll I don't I mean I might not even use it again. It so it logged out on my computer a couple of months ago. Yeah. And so now I just have no way to get, I mean, I can like log back. I have the login somewhere, but it's like a pain in the ass to log back. I don't know, it's probably not that bad, but so I just haven't had it logged in. So don't have Facebook anymore, and you know, don't have like a Snapchat or a TikTok or anything like that. So I'm pretty much just like off of all of that. Yeah. Do you are like I got off crack or something?
SPEAKER_03:Well, are you gonna miss my Facebook Marketplace?
SPEAKER_04:Is that I just use my wife's okay, gotcha. So there's still a pathway to Facebook Marketplace. I don't need to be on Facebook Marketplace. LT like 1992. Shopping. Royal Infield 650 Interceptor. I'm like, yeah, that's the problem. I need to get off Facebook Marketplace. I need to burn it.
SPEAKER_03:Probably a good idea.
SPEAKER_04:Um, I scour it often. I mean, yeah, that's the thing. And I mean, I talked about that last year about just trying not to really, I don't I kind of don't want to buy shit. There's a couple of things like you know, I would love like an old truck or something, even just for like the project aspect of it, to work on it and just have something to focus on. Um, I mean, there's there's plenty of there's like a couple of things that I would like love to have. Um, but there's nothing I need. And I kind of just want that this year to be kind of that like I don't want to buy new clothes. Yeah. Um new old clothes. Yeah, I mean just like yeah, but just clothes in general, though. It's like I mean, yeah, I just I don't want to buy a bunch of shit, so I don't know. And I've done pretty good with that so far. I'll say, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Modest upgrades here and there, but for the most part, very disciplined.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so we'll see. Um, I mean, I can't really think of too much that I've bought this year. Even like books, I'll you know, I'm like, ah, you need that. Yeah, that's probably just the freaking, I'll just get the Kindle version.
SPEAKER_03:That's probably the one thing that you were really going. But geez, of all the things to be buying, like to be self-critical about, I don't know that books.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, to an extent, but yeah, it's like if you don't use them.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, uh, yes, and I think that's always the sign. Like, am I actually reading these?
SPEAKER_04:Did I show you some of the did I do show and tell with what I got? Some of the books that I got in Nashville? No. I did get a couple. I don't know any of them. This thing is freaking cool, by the way. This just feels good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Harbor Freight, FEW Bottle opener. I'd just get a couple of books. For those listening, Alex held his wrench slash bottle opener from Harbor Freight.
SPEAKER_04:I got this one for Christmas.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I've got that one. It's a long time ago. Yeah, I love this book. So he's pulled down William Eggleston's guide.
unknown:I got this.
SPEAKER_03:That's a good one.
SPEAKER_04:Use bookstore.
SPEAKER_03:Dante. It's a divine comedy.
SPEAKER_04:It's a divine comedy, but it's with the illustrations.
SPEAKER_03:James Forsyth's copy. I know, dude. Can you imagine getting like they're just ink ink illustrations? Well, I think it's is that called Lithograph, where they do an ink transfer on the copper plates or whatever that they carved, which is crazy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It's just yeah, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_03:So it'd be cool if your website looked like these pages. Like, you know, like has that has that like vignetting around the sepia vignetting around the edges. It's beautiful. Yeah. I do love me some William Eggleston's guide, though. And that's it. At war with the obvious here. Just the best photos. I love that one of the suburban street with a car. Yeah, these things are great.
SPEAKER_04:Naked guy. Naked guy. I think that guy killed himself. Oh man, brutal. He's a buddy of his, a dentist.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, he's got some good ones in here. Yeah, this one. I always love this one. Page 75. Number 74. Southern Edinburghs of Memphis. Yeah, it's a great project. It's really, really, really good. I thought this one was one of my Alzheimers, too. Page 70. Tallahatchie County, Mississippi. I love that.
SPEAKER_04:So that was a gift from my father-in-law. Yeah, it's a good one. Dad Nancy.
SPEAKER_03:So this, you know, when I think of myself out like yesterday up in Fremont, like I think about these photographs often.
SPEAKER_04:Have you seen not just this one? The Stephen Shore? Yeah. You have that?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, absolutely. And I'm like, I just I want I want to go do sort of like my treasure hunting work, you know, to get stuff for the shop or to to sell or whatever. But I want to have these stretches in between where I'm just exploring, pulling over in the truck, walking around, and grabbing photographs. I want to make like a deal with myself where I'm like, okay. Picking spots to kind of go to that estate sale dispersal store, go to the Goodwill or whatever, do your thing for you know for an hour or whatever, and then take a break. Go shoot. And then go, you know, go back on the clock and then hit up the antique store or whatever. I basically want to travel locally looking for the stuff that pays the bills, but then like sharing the day with just being out there, not in commerce brain and treasure hunter brain, but just take in the environment.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I could see a thing where you're like picking for things like full-time. Yeah. That's kind of your gig. Yeah. I feel like you're closer to that than I would have expected or you would have expected that this time last year.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And it's like there might be a time when that kind of I mean, yeah, I think you'll still do like the record videos and stuff, but it's more because you enjoy doing them. Yeah. Or maybe because there is like a bit of satisfaction with like the growing of the channel. But then yeah, I mean, maybe that'll open it up to where you don't have to worry about editing a bunch of videos or whatever.
SPEAKER_03:Well, it would be nice. You know, my I I wish that it was like going out and doing this stuff, whether it's exploring just for the sake of photography, um, or exploring to look for, you know, look for treasure, that the experiences that I was having and the people I ran into led to documentation and storytelling. And so, like the woman I met with a car heart who talked about being clairvoyant and having been a butt model. Yeah, I'm like, okay, like those should trigger me to go into storyteller mode and just be like, look, I've got a camcorder and a microphone. Tell me more. Tell me more. And yeah, can I take your portrait, you know, and then make a video about that? Yeah, you know, and it doesn't have to be like all this amazing high-quality 4K footage and a lit interview and all this. Like, I want it to be rougher. Um, you know, I still want the audience to be able to enjoy it, but I want it to just and I I you know, I always feel like I'm crunched for time, you know, so like my brain doesn't kind of pay attention to the signals that you're getting that this is really interesting stuff. And um, it's like I gotta get to the next thing or this person's waiting for me, or I gotta get back to the shop. And I I I don't want that. I want that stuff to to just breathe more. Yeah. And I want to remember, even if even if I just started taking a portrait of these people that I meet when I buy their stuff, um, like that that just by itself is an interesting project for sure. For a a gallery or a book or just whatever. Yeah. So I mean, watching some of those Wig William Eggleston videos on YouTube where he's out with his son and they're just he's just wandering around taking photos, and like that is like a perfect day to me.
SPEAKER_04:That's the best documentary. Oh man, that's about the photography period, I think.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's up there. I mean, I haven't seen a ton of photography documentaries, but I mean, I remember watching that, and I'm just like, I think about doing what you're doing.
SPEAKER_04:Well, that that one and then uh the Gary Winnegrand documentary. The Gary Winnegrand documentary is great because it it'll it just it has a lot to teach you about just like the morons. Like, I don't I'm sure that these are like good like nice people, but it just everybody's got like this. Oh, I think the work is like this, and like I think because of this and this and this, this is what the work is, and the work is this, and this is da-da-da-da-da. It's just this like really pretentious yeah, idiocy. And I don't know, it taught me a lot, and then it's just kind of overlaid with Gary, you know, talking or shooting, and then the actual photographs, right? And you just kind of hear these people reacting to it from like a very localized perspective, and I don't know, it's almost just polar opposite ends, and it's like if you understand these two things, then like it's kind of a great starter kit for yeah, photography. Agreed, but yeah, it's a good book though. I'm excited to actually finally have it in the collection. Yes. I I don't have a huge collection of photo books, but I've I've got yeah two or three shelves of them.
SPEAKER_03:I went pretty ham on them for a while.
SPEAKER_04:You did, yeah, yeah. I I have quite a few. I don't yeah, I don't know. I've just never really I like like I mean there's nothing where I'm like, oh, I need to own like the most well-known ones. I like finding obscure ones and then I mean I own a lot of well-known ones, but like Yeah. I've got you know I don't know, like the Jerry Schatzberger, like some of those are cool and a little more.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Well, even just opening this one and looking at it again, it was like You're like, I need to block these open. Well, not just that, but I'm like, I need to get out and make work because I I I just see opportunities like this all the time. And not to say that I'm gonna take photos on par with William, but I at least feel like I have been in these places like this with opportunities to capture things the way that I see them, and I just haven't done it. I've just let these other things and I just see this, and I'm just like, yeah, I gotta get back out there. I've gotta make time for that, not like let some level of achievement or revenue or something like grant me permission to do it. Yeah, I know. Like I I run into people like this all the time. You see me at like a you know, when we go to estate sales together, that intensity, that's what happens to me, and it like makes me like ruins your just makes me not bright right, right.
SPEAKER_04:And I think I think I I see it too. Like, I mean you're you're almost like like when I'll when I'll go with you, and I I do enjoy going with you. It's like but yeah, you are like locked in. It's I mean it's like you're like, hey Matt, check this out, and you're like, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But like right. And there's a few times that some of these dollar signs with some of the estate sales where I see how a room is situated, and I'm like, oh, I have to take a picture of this. But I think there's way more opportunities for that um in those spaces. I I was going back looking at photos for the gallery that we were gonna do, and some of my favorite ones that I was considering putting in there were ones I just took with my phone in some of these estate sales.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:The way that the room was arranged, or there was an impression on the bed, or like just the way that these people's homes get kind of out of whack at an estate sale. Like in that there was a basement where like a refrigerator was just like cockeyed in the middle of the basement, and it just looked yeah, disembodied and bizarre, which to me is what these estate sales feel like as well.
SPEAKER_04:Maybe so we're about we got just a little bit of time left, but I'm interested, yeah. Like this I went through and looked at photos too, and I I think part of part of me, I think I'm kind of done with the photos that I've shot. Like I'm just very familiar with what I've shot so far, and they're kind of all boring to me. And maybe if I get away from them and come back to them and but it's like I've sequenced them so many ways, and like I know exactly what's in there, and just I'm like, okay, whatever, I've seen these, I don't care anymore. Like I just don't want to see these anymore. Yep. Um, and I mean obviously the way to fix that is to go make new photos, and so I think I'm probably I I'd like to get really aggressive about it this year and kind of build a new body of work that I'm actually excited about and like that has something to teach me because I just not that the work doesn't have anything to teach me, but I do feel like I've just kind of I'm like, all right, I've looked at this like a hundred ways from Sunday and I've sequenced it like 30 different times, and like it's some of it's good and some of it's and some of it's like okay, and it's oh that's a you know, how did you catch that? I don't know, right? Whatever. No, but it's I mean it's just like it's not interesting anymore. Yeah, yeah. And maybe it's interesting to some, and I get that. It's like, well, it's like it hasn't been displayed or whatever, and it's like, yeah, but at a certain point you have to be engaging and excited about the work, or else like that's like you can't, I don't know. And I was excited, and I did a bunch of sequencing, and um, you know, I'm probably I'll probably take the selections I made, edit them, and put them on my I my new website. Um that's a good idea. The portfolio website hasn't been touched in a while. Um and maybe uh maybe I'll go back. I also I was looking at my portfolio website and I was like, dude, I pay format or whatever X amount of money a year to host this thing for me, and I'm like, I could build this better than this is. Like, especially now, like I'm like, I'm confident that I could build this better than what this is, and I could just host this myself. Yeah, so I might that might be a project that I approach at some point. I I also don't know if there's like it's worth having the differentiated, like I do think it's kind of good to have that just like professional, but I don't know. Man, I don't want to be a commercial photographer or anything, I'm not really interested in that. Um, but yeah, no, yeah, photography is definitely something I want to kind of engage with more same over the next um next eight months or ten months or whatever we've got. So we'll see where it goes. I don't want to make but even like this, like I don't want to make work like this even. Like I kind of want to see what else, like where is my work gonna go?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So I don't know. I haven't been excited about anything I've taken a picture of in like a year and a half though. So like you know, street photography in Omaha doesn't really get me pumped like it yeah, like it did. Um I don't know, man. I don't know. I just need to find something that catches my attention.
SPEAKER_03:And I think being out in the world and having your camera and being open and all that, like it'll just start happening. You'll see something.
SPEAKER_04:Well, there was a great, I don't know if you listened to um there was a Rick Rubin interview recently. And I watched it on there actually. Um, because it was in his yard, and yeah, his yard is like I mean it's what does he call it, Shangri-La? Yeah, like it's literally Shangri-La. It's fucking great. It was with uh George Saunders though, the author. Oh yeah, I didn't watch that. It's really good. You should you should give it a yeah, but essentially he's like, yeah, uh you know, the creative process is just this thing that you you know, it literally doesn't exist if you don't do the process. Like you can't be like, I have this thing and I need to bring it in. It's like the act of bringing it in causes it to be the thing, yeah. And yeah, it's just like yeah, it's all about just doing it and slowly make it like you make a hundred thousand decisions over the course of a year or whatever, and you know, if you're making that many decisions, your your personality is gonna be a piece of that final output. And so, you know, whatever that is, is what that is. And if you're making those decisions in an honest way and actually based on your taste and not like what you think your taste should be or what you think you don't want to impress or or yeah, what you're trying to s to, you know, support or say or whatever, then it'll be a reflection, you'll learn something from it. And if you don't take that process seriously, then you're not gonna learn anything from it. And you're not gonna teach anybody anything either because nobody wants to learn from your bullshit. Like that, and that's kind of just one of the things. It's like and I don't know, it was a very pragmatic way of looking at it. Obviously, we've talked about stuff like that before of what is you know what it what makes something artistic. Yeah. Um but yeah. Also been thinking about that a lot while I was gone. I haven't talked to you about that, but like what is like what is art? Like what is what makes something art? Um, and we don't have to get into that now, but yeah. It's just interesting. I always I always really liked um Tolstoy, the what is art book, and I've been thinking about that more. I'm like, I don't know if I agree with that that much actually. Um it's also it's funny. Um who was the the book critic? Um brilliant guy, he died like a while ago, but um we got we uh sent back and forth a bunch of like interviews of him a couple years ago. Um uh Harold Bloom. Yeah, Harold Bloom. Yeah, yeah. And so he's like the the Western canon is his thing, and we actually saw one of his books in Nashville. Um he but he hates that Tolstoy. Um because I think Tolstoy essentially says something about like Shakespeare not meeting the definition of whatever, and he's like Shakespeare is like like recreated like the metaphor and used it in ways that nobody had ever used it and like completely reshifted, like structured, anyways. That's I'm getting off on a tangent, but um I don't know why I was thinking about that, but yeah, I just like Tolstoy's definition of art is like transmutation of feeling from one individual to another, and I'm like, I really like that definition of it. And I heard something though, it was like more of an Emersonian, like um, like I don't know if it's like it's definitely not like started with Emerson, but it was kind of like started with that like pre-transcendentalist, so probably German thought, and then it kind of got adopted into like the transcendentalist early American, and it's like like there is a there's human and then there's like divine, and art is able to reach through that barrier and like pull like connect the two things, and that's not an exact quote, but it's it's kind of you know that's kind of like the concept, and like I kind of like that one too, but obviously that's within a very like like that is it that is a worldview specific thing. Like if you're atheist or whatever, you're not gonna see that as being you know, being the true definition. So I mean, I don't know if there's a definition, it's probably worthless to even try to, but everybody has like something that they agree with, and yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So I've just been thinking like, where do I well maybe it's not about finding it's not about finding like what I this is what I believe, but it's like and it's not about finding the definition of art, but it's maybe finding your definition of it.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's like what's most true for me at the moment. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that is with anything. That's what it's great about this podcast is every week we can just change our mind. Yeah. This is actually how I feel now.
SPEAKER_03:That with that and that's the point of documenting all these conversations is to capture the evolution of those thoughts and feelings over time and uh and how making work and not making work informs that. Yeah. Which is what I love about doing this.
