The NBA Report w/ CP The Fanchise
The NBA Report w/ CP The Fanchise
Early NBA Eastern Conference Power Rankings w/Mike Vorkunov
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On today's edition of the NBA Report, CP The Fanchise is joined by Mike Vorknuov, NBA senior writer for The Athletic. Don't miss another action packed episode we they dish on:
- The Summer of the Knicks
- NBA schedule reaction
- Eastern conference power rankings
- Are Jalen Brunson & Karl Anthony Towns Hall of Famers?
- The Lakers get flipped?!
- Latest on the NBA gambling scandal
Subscribe to the channel on Youtube - https://youtube.com/live/GkghAl_LCro
All right, here we go. Salute to NBA Nation Salute Knicks Nation on this Friday afternoon, a KFTV NBA report simulcast, TP the franchise in the building. Today's guest, he covers the business of basketball for the athletic, friend of the program, former member of the Knicks Beat. Our guy Mark Vorkinov joins us today. On today's show, we got an action-packed show, man. We will recap the NBA scheduled release. We'll talk a little Eastern Conference power rankings, man. A loaded Eastern Conference this year with all sights to target on the Knicks back. So we're gonna talk about that. Plus, Mike wrote a great article this week for The Athletic on Jalen Brunson, Carl Anthony Towns Hall of Fame candidacy. So we'll get into that and much more. Hit the like button, hit the share button, and subscribe to the channel. Number one show for the fans by the fans. Let's get into it. Alright, Mike, happy Friday, man. How you feeling, man?
SPEAKER_00It's been a long summer, CP. It's been a long summer. Let's get it out. Let's get out of the way.
SPEAKER_01It's been a long summer, man. I ran into you in the midst of the mayhem of the Knicks Championship Parade. I mean, just give me your thoughts on the summer of the Knicks, man. From the championship through the parade, what that experience is like for you.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's kind of crazy. I feel like, uh tell me how you feel. Like the spring was all about the Knicks. May, June, everyone was talking about the Knicks, no matter where you were, no matter what part of the country you were in. And they have been like super quiet ever since the season, well, since the parade ended. It was a hell of a parade. But like I feel that's like one of the quietest offseasons for a reigning champ in a very long time. I don't know. Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but like, hey, aside from the Mitchell Robinson thing, I don't know, not much has happened, and maybe that's a good thing for them. Extremely quiet and lackluster.
SPEAKER_01They they lost Mitchell Robinson. I was disappointed about that. We'll see how Andre Drummond can make up for that. And now they don't have a third string center. So I think that's gonna be their biggest question, their biggest hole, aside from you know, with Brunson coming back from the wrist surgery. Is he gonna be ready for the opener? But yeah, they they did bring back Alvarado, um, Landry Shaman, and Clarkson. I thought those bringing back that bench depth was was key there, but in terms of them trying to repeat and that window, it's not clear. You know, Deuce McBride has not been extended yet. Could he be treated? Like, there's this there's some questions there that I have about them in terms of their ability to repeat.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, look, I think it's always really hard to repeat nowadays. Uh, mostly because, like, listen, they were in the Eastern Conference Finals the year before that, then they made it to the finals. Uh, you're gonna have to essentially go three straight years of playing deep into May into June, and that's really hard now, right? Like, we've seen teams struggle to stay healthy for one full season. Now you're trying to do it for three with the load that's on these on these guys' bodies. Like, it's gonna be tough either way. So I I think they're taking like a rational approach, just run it back with their championship, with their legit championship roster. Like, we know those guys can win a team and um, you know, kind of figure it out because you got some questions about the future with the cat extension. Obviously, you know a Brunson extension is coming, yeah, Bridges extension kicking in. Um, you know, you got you got some stuff to figure out financially on that side of things, and you know that you essentially have a hard cap now with that second apron, wherever that is, because James Olin said he's not going there. So I get why they're kind of slow playing it a little bit and maybe see where things shake out by the deadline.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and you're right about the health. I thought the health aspect was a vastly underrated aspect of their championship run. Last two years in the playoffs, they were healthy. And and I I say to people all the time, I said, OG Ananobi, that hamstring being going from a tweak and not being anything major, that won them the championship.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. And the fact that like it came uh what was it? Early in Philly series. Yeah, in that Philly series, and they still won, right? So they didn't have to keep playing. It wasn't that it didn't have to be a six or seven game series. They withstood it, they blew the hell out of the Sixers, and so he got extra time to rest. Like, it became a best case scenario there, both in terms of severity of the injury and the rest that he got to get from it. So, like they they kind of coasted through that. And I mean, hell, but the Brunson, Brunson, Brunson had an injury, just played through it like a strong man that he is, and that was crazy too. Um, so they've had a few things, but nothing so severe that those guys had to miss you know a lot of time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and on the Brunson front, it was funny that in in game one, in the beginning of the game, he gets his knee buckled with Shaman running into him, then he gets his ankle stepped on, uh he gets like mauled by Wemby, and all of that wasn't the injury that had landed on the on the surgery table. So it's just very uh crazy how tough he is, and to be able to perform that like that, 45 points in a closeout with your wrist tendon, you know, hanging on, it's Captain Klutchman.
SPEAKER_00He's like Wolverine, he's got an enamantium in his body, kind of like helping them rehab in real time.
SPEAKER_01The schedule released in full yesterday. Uh, any key takeaways or did anything strike out at you with with the with the release of the schedule?
SPEAKER_00No, you know, I'm not like a person who makes a lot out of the schedule. Like, you know, you're gonna play, it's not the NFL where you don't know if you're playing everyone all the time. Like the Knicks seem to be a good one. Like, I, you know, if you look, Shemit Dua, who who was out in New Orleans, has like built a really cool, interesting uh schedule analyzer and looks like you know the Knicks did pretty well. They're like 28th and 3-and-4 game stretches. I'm looking at 20th and back-to-backs, you know. They only have 13 of those. Really, the hardest one is that the net rest isn't great for them, but I mean, in terms of like the things that matter for schedule, which is rest, back to backs, three and four, like they handed it out pretty cool. Uh, pretty interesting, I think. The only the only thing that kind of jumped out at me is uh if they make a repeat to the NBA Cup Finals, they already got a game scheduled for the day after. So are they gonna be playing the NBA Cup Finals on a back-to-back? Like, but you know, that's kind of a champagne problem if you get there. That's true.
SPEAKER_01And uh and very interesting. I did think the the one interesting thing I was uh the fact that they played Philly twice within 10 days to start the season, and then the next two are also like kind of jumbled up in February. So I didn't they didn't really, you know, space out the LeBron and Brunson factor, that the the rivalry, if you will, with the two teams who are considered the favorites in the East.
SPEAKER_00But for TV purposes, you're hoping to guarantee as many LeBron healthy Knicks games as possible. So if you're front loading in the start of the season, you're hoping LeBron stays healthy, Knicks stay healthy. Nobody's season has got off you know off track just yet. So you're guaranteed two marquee matchups before that all, you know, like kind of lowering the risk that it all blows up and it's not as sexy a game later on.
SPEAKER_01The first year of the new TV deal, have you heard anything in terms of reactions, feedback in terms of how that performed with the fan base? I mean, so many different platforms Amazon, Peacock, you gotta go to ESPN now. Any anything that you heard over the course of the season or afterwards?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's probably the same as you, which is like, listen, I think people are annoyed at you know, subscribing to everything, uh, for sure. Everyone has subscription fatigue uh by now. Um, but you know, there's also been some benefits too. It's more stuff on broadcast TV, right? Like if you have Amazon, you probably are watching that for free since you have Amazon Prime. So it's just, you know, once kind of everyone gets adjusted. And for the NBA teams, I mean they get more money out of it, and so they're happy in that regard. I I think it's been I think it's been fine. I don't know. I it's always hard to make what to uh you know what to make of it. Um the ratings have been great, obviously. The league had its highest ratings in God knows how many years last year. Um so from that standpoint, people are watching.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it it is interesting. I mean, for me, it's a little different. You know, I got League Pass, I I gotta have everything kind of subscribed to and activated when I need to, but you know, you did hear those complaints. I think the one the one common complaint is like, you know, people took for granted the uh the last button on the cable. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because now you gotta jump out the app, cycle through to the next app, then you gotta load up, load up. That's gotta change. That's gotta change. We gotta find some sort of like Chat GPT module or something to like, you know, quickly jump from platform to platform. That'll be the next uh innovation, I think.
SPEAKER_00I think the NBA app does allow you to like go from the app to wherever the game is being broadcast, if it's a national broadcast, so you can use that as a jumping off point. But one, how many people know about that? Two, still not, you know, it's still annoying. It's not still not as easy as cable. And like whoever thought we'd be like, hey, let's get our cable back, like that was so easy. Um, people will get adjusted to it. Also, assuming the way that uh that everything in media is going, we're just like bound for consolidation somewhere. Yeah, it's gotta happen soon. Make it easier at some point in time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, something, something's gonna, it's gotta come to a head for sure. Uh, you know, we talked about the Knicks and they're relatively stagnant offseason. Obviously, Philadelphia made a ton of moves. Is that the team you're looking at as the most improved in the East?
SPEAKER_00I think the Sixers, the Knicks, and the Pacers to me are in a separate class. Like, that to me is the top tier of the East right now. I guess you can throw Cleveland in there, but I just have concerns about them in the playoffs that we saw when the Knicks, you know, tanked them in four again. Um, but if Halliburton is Tyrese Halliburton, like if he's back to being healthy by the time the playoffs roll around, like to me, those are the three best teams as of now. Um, you know, all for different reasons. Like we saw how the Knicks did it. Philly just gonna have amazing top five depth, right? Like that starting lineup, they have a better bench than they did last year. Obviously, LeBron being like the connector is an amazing player to have in that role. Um, and Indy, yeah. I mean, listen, Halliburton uh and Siakam are great players, and then they got better since that Eastern Conference Finals run because to me, Zubac is a big improvement over Miles Turner because I think he was barely playable by the Eastern Conference Finals and by the finals. Um and they still took you know OKC to halftime of game seven. I think they were up. So that to me is kind of like the big the big three in the East. And Cleveland, you know, I still have questions about how playable James Harden is in the Eastern Conference Finals or deeper in the playoffs, like for all the reasons that we see, right? Like they I think they still need another playmaker there. Their defense got torched because you're just hunting James Harden, and there's nothing that they could do. Um, so I'm curious to see where they go with that. And then, you know, everyone else has kind of questions. I I don't know. Like, do you think that there's another team that can creep up there? Like, Miami has guard questions. I don't know what they're gonna do. Um, Orlando, maybe Sean Sweeney works miracles. But like it to me, those three teams kind of uh are separated a little bit right now.
SPEAKER_01Well, here's my top eight. Can I give you my top eight? Preseason. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Hit me.
SPEAKER_01I'm going with the Knicks, number one. All right. You gotta be to be the man, you gotta beat the man. Run it back. I'm running it back with the Knicks at the top. Now, Brunson, the Brunson situation is gonna be ready to start. Do they I think you know the rest would be beneficial for him, but we'll see how they handle that. I'm gonna go with I think the Celtics are gonna still be up there, man. I do. I still I do think the Celtics are gonna be up there as a regular season team with Tatum, with Paul George. You know, you add the Robinson factor with Cater. They got a lot more stat at the center position, which is really where they needed to get stronger, even though a lot of guys, to me, played far and above their expectation last year. You level up Pritchard, Derek White, you know, was last year just a one-off. He had a bad year last year. Does he bounce back? I'm still gonna go with the Celtics there. I'm gonna go with the Pacers at three. I like what you said about Halliburton and Zubox with Tiakam. If Halliburton is the same guy, you know, obviously they they have a very high ceiling there, and they're gonna be a thorn in the Knicks side. Halliburton's he annoys me a little bit. I will go with the Sixers. I just don't know how you know how many games are they expecting out of LeBron James and MB. That's that's a big that's a big question. You know, he's for he is 42. You know, um of the all the hype and hoopla aside, he is 42 years old. Is Father Time finally gonna like pick him up by the back of the shirt like say, all right, enough already now? I don't know. I've been asking that question for like five years, and he he he still has to fight it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And he's gonna have to do less this year, right? Like, that's the nice thing. Let's say Embiid doesn't play that many games. You still got uh Tyrese Massey that can do a lot, you still got Jalen Brown that can do a lot. Vijay Edgecombe is gonna be able to do more next year as a second-year player. Like, you're not gonna need LeBron to play heavy, heavy minutes for 65 games, carry the offense, and play defense. Like, you don't need him to carry the offense and defense optional. It's a good place to be. And so I think he'll be able to play. You know, I'm sure they'll try to manage his minutes a little bit for all those points. But yeah, like in terms of a regular season team, you know, that team's not constructed to win 65 games. That's not the point of what why they're doing it. Here's a team I'm putting after that.
SPEAKER_01I like Orlando, man. I'm gonna go with the chemistry factor. A healthy Franz. I mean, they were able to get by with Franz and Paolo out for periods of time last year, especially the Franz knee injury. Another year with Bain. You add in Sean Sweeney. I think their defense is still gonna be good, especially with him. We'll see offensively, that's where they need to make their biggest leap. They finished 18th in the in the in the offense last year, but I think I I liked how they came out of that playoffs. I I think they were battle tested. They went toe-to-toe with Detroit. They should have won. If Franz doesn't get injured, they would have beaten Detroit. I'm gonna go with Orlando. I think Orlando makes it up there.
SPEAKER_00I like that. I like that. I still got questions about their offense. Yeah. Uh Sean Sweeney comes in with a reputation as a like a great defensive coach. Right. What's he gonna do with their offense? I feel like he'll try to switch it up a little bit, but on the other hand, it's still running through Palo, right? Palo is who he is as a player, as an offensive player, especially, unless they kind of tilt a little bit more to Franz Wagner and what he can do. Um I see the appeal. I'm not ready to put him in that group just yet, unless we just get some offensive juice. Maybe Anthony Black takes a jump. I don't know. I'm just not ready to go there.
SPEAKER_01It would be him. To me, he's the key. To me, he it's been Anthony Black. He he's the key for that bench. Um, I'll go Detroit after that. I'm gonna go Detroit after that.
SPEAKER_00From 60 games to sixth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm dropping him. I'm not impressed with anything that they have right now. They have a I'm gonna give him a high floor with with Cade and his MVP caliber play. I also think with their defense and athleticism, especially over the course of an 82-game season, it's enough to win you a chunk of games. You know, I think it's enough to win you a chunk of games. But with the Duran situation in flux, they still haven't addressed their scoring, uh, the lack of scoring there, rather, a true second option. They lose to bias. I'm really not impressed with that roster all that, all that much, man. I think Detroit's gonna take a little step back.
SPEAKER_00No, for sure. I mean, I assume they'll sign Jalen Duran. Like it's just headed there, whether it's a multi-year deal or then him just taking the QO. Um, but losing Tobias, losing beef stew, yeah, all you bring in is uh John Collins, which I like. I like John Collins, but I don't think he's better than what they lost. And I know they had a first round pick, but I think they, if I remember correctly, they took a small scoring guard. Um, if that works out, maybe, but even then, like as a rookie, what do you can you what can you really expect as a rookie? Yeah. Um, so I get the drop. Like, I think they'll still win a good amount of regular season games. They're kind of like one of those Celtics types grinders that'll win more regular season games. But if I'm looking at where how are they gonna do in the playoffs, I think where you got them is fair.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh, that's what that's what I think. And then so that's six. Now, the Raptors situation, are they getting Kawhi Leonard or not? That's a big difference. Now, I was very impressed with the with the way that their defense carried them. I mean, they finished with the what, the fifth seed. Fifth seeded, yeah. Yeah. Finish with the fifth seed with not much offense at all. I mean, look, Ingram is Ingram. I've never been a high Ingram guy. Um, but the Kawhi thing, you know, if they have him, I like them with Barnes. I love Murray Boyles. RJ's my guy. We'll see what quickly has. But if they don't have him, I don't know. So I'm gonna put the Raptors seventh for right now.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01I'll put him seventh.
SPEAKER_00I'm curious who you have rounded out the top eight. I'm gonna say what I'll go off with my top eight after hearing yours, but I'm curious who you have eight. It's tricky, man.
SPEAKER_01At eight, it's very tricky. I don't trust, I don't try I'm not impressed with Miami, man.
SPEAKER_00Hmm.
SPEAKER_01I think that's fair.
SPEAKER_00Who does the guard stuff? That's kind of like been my question. I know it's simple. Yeah, who's scoring? Who's playmaking? It's so much front court oriented with him and Bam. And the offensive hit uh with him and Bam is gonna be interesting, too. I know Bam really jacked up his three-point rate last year. Yeah. That doesn't mean he's a great three-point shooter, and I don't know if that's his strength either. So, like, I'm curious what the fit's gonna look like.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna go with the Hawks.
SPEAKER_00Interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm gonna go back with the Hawks, man. I like how they finished the season, obviously. They went into the playoffs on a high. You get another year with Jalen Johnson, his maturation. You add indoor. Didn't have a great year with OKC. Seems to be coming back to the pack a little bit, but he continues to solidify their defense. Do they get anything from Wiggins off the bench? Any more firepower? Got, you know, Londale off the bench, Nikhil Alexander Walker coming off of the uh the MIP year, or is it six-man rather? I'm gonna go with the Hawks there, man. But it's gonna be very tight.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it's also interesting because like the teams that you didn't mention, right? Like, that's how deep the East is this year. You could have 11 teams make a playoff, like a top six case, and that means one of them uh has to miss it. You know, we didn't mention I didn't even mention Cleveland. You didn't mention Cleveland. Uh the Hornets, you know, arguably a case. If they get better, maybe they took a step back, trading LaMelo, but like that's still an interesting team. Hornets, Hornets are interesting. Yeah, you didn't mention Cleveland. I I'm thinking it through. I think to me, obviously New York has one. I have Philly two. I think even if Embiid is hurt, you got now enough center depth to kind of work through it. And it seems like Mike Gansy has come in and he's willing to make big changes right away if he needs to. Like Darren Mori kind of kept that team static. Obviously, he he added to, but he kind of kept that team static. Um I'm gonna put the Pacers third. I got Toronto fourth, Cleveland fifth. I'm gonna go the Pistons sixth because you got Cade, and Cade, I think, is really, really good. Um I think the Celtics are gonna be seventh. Man, Orlando. Orlando's there. Atlanta's loaded. Atlanta's there. Oh man. I I think I think I'll have Orlando ahead of Atlanta. Um and then I think what that makes Charlotte 10th. Am I missing anybody here? Um, the Heat. The Heat Heat. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the question to me is like, how many games is Giannis gonna play? He's at hurt the last few years. Calf injury. Um like if he plays a full, you know, like 70-ish games like that, like I think they will finish ahead of Atlanta and they'll finish ahead of um Orlando, and they'll be right there on that 6'7 line. But if he's hurt and he plays 40 games, 50 games, I don't know if Miami has the depth and the talent around them. Like they're gonna be playing in a play in uh game, like that's gonna be dangerous for them.
SPEAKER_01I think so. But you know, the thing with these power rankings, it never goes how you think it goes. I never thought. I had no thought that Detroit would have been the number one seed last year. I thought they were sixth seed completely.
SPEAKER_00That's the thing, like who finishes first in the conference in the standings to me is a little different than how you kind of tier them as the best team in the East. Like, yeah, I could see Orlando winning the conference. I could see Atlanta winning the conference. Yeah. Um like Boston, like, those are all teams that are gonna play hard the whole season. They're they're trying to win as many games as they can. Like Toronto, too, you know. Right. Hawaii last year played a lot of games. And Scotty Barnes is young, that's a young team. Like, I could see any of those teams kind of winning the number one seed. Um, but when we're talking about who's getting out of the East, I think it's just a little different.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that's why I don't I don't necessarily think the Knicks will get the number one seed. No, because I don't think they're gonna go hard. They didn't this year, and we were totally fine with it. You know? Yeah. I said on the show last night, I said health will be the number one seed for the Knicks. Just get the you know, crack the top four and go in there healthy. The the the rest, they they'll be good from there.
SPEAKER_00And honestly, the way that the the fans traveled, like home court advantage might matter less to them than any other team because wherever you go in the playoffs, it sure seems like they're gonna take that building over and neuter home court advantage for whoever else.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that that's exactly right. So uh kind of be interesting, but I I mean, based on this exercise, the East, with Halliburton coming back, what's going on with the Raptors? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot. I think that Charlotte, you know, Charlotte. How would they be strong interesting? Yeah, they were strong last year. With Charles Lee, he's finally gotten them together. They have some young scrappers. Um, Brandon Miller, sensational year. You know, they're gonna have a good year again. I think they're gonna be a strong team, man.
SPEAKER_00I think you can make the case that Kobe White will replace most of what Lamello does. He's able to do a lot of the same stuff, not as well as Lomelo. He doesn't, he's not the same playmaker, he doesn't have the same gravity, but still he can do a lot of the same stuff. Like they have a I think a much better front court. Like trading out Miles Bridges and getting in Nasmi. I think that's an improvement. Um, they're stronger at the center position now, power forward. Like, I don't think losing Miles Bridges is gonna hurt them that much. Um, and then Con Kanipple and Brandon Miller get better, like that could be a pretty good team there. And if they get in as like a seven or eight seed, no one's gonna be shocked.
SPEAKER_01Could could could be dangerous for sure. Uh CP the franchise, we got Mike Forking off of the Athletic on the ones and twos. Hit the like button, hit the share button, and subscribe to the channel. Uh, Mike, this week you uh released an article on the athletic Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns Hall of Fame candidacy. Let's talk about that a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Let's do it. I'm gonna ask you a question. Yeah. I'm gonna ask you a question. I know we want to talk Brunson. Yeah, but I wrote about Kat too. And that's the one I struggled with. Is Carl Anthony Towns a Hall of Famer right now? What he's done right now. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I think if you go off of the numbers as one of the best shooting bigs. How many all MBAs? Two?
SPEAKER_00He hasn't made he's only made three. Three. I think they've all been all 13.
SPEAKER_01Three all all MBAs, six all-stars, if I'm not mistaken. Six all-stars. And his ceiling is going to be high playing on this team. They're gonna win a number of games still, assuming they're all healthy and together. I do think that they will come to an agreement with Towns and that he will remain with the Knicks. And so with Brunson, with Towns, their ceiling, their window will be I think it stays open, you know, no guarantees on back-to-backs or anything. But I think for the next at least three years, let's just say. And with those numbers and his shooting ability, I do think even though he's a big man, his game, I think it'll age a little bit better than most, right? Like some guys like Giannis, where it's predicated on athleticism, I think they will find ways to utilize his shooting gravity, utilize his abilities as a shooter, and with the numbers that he has, yeah, I think he'll make it. I think he'll win it.
SPEAKER_00But you think right now, if he retires tomorrow, I've had enough of the NBA. I want to go run a trading card store in Middlesex County, New Jersey.
SPEAKER_01He's heavy on the tops, man.
SPEAKER_00And he says, that's it, I'm done. I've had enough of basketball. He's in. I'm putting him in there. I'm putting him in there. That one I really struggled with because like the numbers are great, as you said. He's one of like 15 players ever to average 22 and 11 for his career. All the guys who can be in the hall are in. Um the numbers are great, the shooting numbers are great. He hasn't had much team success, but for the last few years. Right. Like, it's three all NBA teams, no first teams. Like, that's it's the it's the classic cat argument, right? It's like we know the numbers are great. We know he's a good player. Is he that good? I assume he'll get in. The NBA or sorry, the basketball hall of fame is pretty leaky. Like, they'll they'll you know, their threshold's not as high. It's the one I yeah, he's the one I struggled with. Jalen Brunson seems like he's he's a shoe now. Yeah, like winning a title, finals MVP, best player on the title team, two titles in college, yeah. You know, play national player of the year. Like, he hasn't been a great NBA player for that long. If you remember, it's only been three, maybe four years, if you want to count his first year with the Knicks. Yeah. Um, but it seems like he's done enough. And and you know, usually you win a finals MVP, you're getting in, pretty much no matter what, except unless if you're Cedric Maxwell. So apologies to Cedric Maxwell.
SPEAKER_01Four for I'm gonna get to Brooks in a second. Four towns with those numbers, you said there was about 15 players within that that range. Yeah. Who had, in terms of win-loss, who had like the least amount of success? Do you remember off the top of your head?
SPEAKER_00I don't I don't remember off the top of my head. Um, but you know, it's like the legends of the game. Like those are the guys who have averaged it. So usually, like big men, especially in the 70s, 60s, 80s. If you're a great big man like that, you're getting in. And the guys now who are averaging that are like, you know, Jokic, um you know, I think I think maybe uh uh Giannis was on there too. Yeah. Um, but like usually it's those types of guys. But all those other guys who are on that list, they probably made first team all NBA a bunch of times. Yeah, they probably had a an MVP or two, right? Like Kat doesn't have those. He doesn't have those awards, he doesn't have those first team all NBA appearances. Like he has the numbers, but he doesn't have everything else, and that's kind of the complicating factor. And if the basketball hall of fame was a little bit more stringent, because the last few years, like it seems like it's gotten easier to get in. Michael Cooper got in, Walter Davis got in, um you know, like even Chauncey getting in, Amari getting in, like those are very good players, but I don't know if they say they were some of the best players in the league at the time they were playing. Um, so if you know if someone if those guys get in, like Kat probably is gonna be able to get in uh with the career that he's had to this point. And then to your point, like another final Eastern Conference finals run next year or the year two, like he's still got you know a few more years of putting up some pretty good numbers. Like he'll he'll be there eventually.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm looking at Stat right now, and that that's a that's a good one to look at. I mean, Stat five-time all NBA, um, six all-stars. He did win the rookie of the year. Uh, you know, best season with the Suns, uh 25 and 8. Oh, I'm sorry, with the Knicks. Oh, best season with the Suns was 26 and 8. And then he had a great season with the Knicks. Uh he did. First year was he was awesome. First yeah, he he was incredible. He was incredible. And then the Melatrae kind of and the injuries just went down, he just went downhill from there. But I mean, prime example, you know, how many great, great years did Stat really have? You know, one, two, three, maybe five.
SPEAKER_00Six. And the furthest he got was to the conference finals in Phoenix, right? Because they never got over that hump. Right. And that's kind of where Kat was before this last year. He got to the conference finals a few times, but he never got over that hump. Um, and so really, this winning the title is kind of what separates him. And winning matters, right? Like, why else is everyone doing this but to win games? And so he's now he's got the numbers, now he's got the winning. Um, I I assume eventually he'll make it, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh uh Jalen to me is a lock. You know, if it were to today, tomorrow, the next year, he's a lock. You know, 26 points per game as a Knicks, the clutch stats, uh the playoff leading score over the last few years, even when the Knicks weren't, you know, advancing to deeper rounds. And then you put on the championship, the finals MVP, two championships in college for the basketball hall of fame, he's a lock. Jalen's definitely getting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, to me, like if you count just this time with the Knicks, he's essentially the basketball version of like Sandy Koufax. Like, yeah. It's like a lefty who just goes off, comes out of nowhere, and just causes havoc and is one of the best players in the league. Um, and listen, you know, Sandy Koufax had five amazing years, and that was enough to get him into the hall. Uh Jalen's had four amazing years in New York, and aside uh in addition to what he did in college, again, national player of the year in college. Like that matters, you know. Um, and who knows, maybe down the line in 28, he'll add an Olympic gold or an Olympic silver medal. Um, you know, like all that stuff adds up to the resume. That is true.
SPEAKER_01You know, the one person that was very interesting on that article, and I'll be fascinating to see his career is far from over, at least I don't think, and we'll see what he does with the Wizards, that's Trey Young, man.
SPEAKER_00He's tough. Like he is, you know, he's kind of he was kind of guard cat for a while before Kat kind of started winning some games, but the numbers are amazing. He's like he's got like the third highest assist per game average in NBA history. Um, you know, he's averaging a lot of points for his career, but the all-NBA recognition is not there. Not there. They made one Eastern Conference Finals run. Like his career is kind of stagnated. I I don't think he's made any other all-NBA teams. I think he's just got one on his on his record. Like, I don't know what you do there. Um, because the numbers are there, but everything else is not. And I feel like if he goes into the hall and he's still on the trajectory that he's in, there's gonna be like a riot. Uh, there's a lot of people who think Trey Young is not that good. And so uh I'd love to see him. Like, it's gonna be fascinating. Knicks fans might come just a heck of him at his own damn Hall of Fame induction.
SPEAKER_01The Knicks fans will show up at Springfield with Pittsforks and Tomatoes. He's made four-time All-Star, once all NBA, and that's it. So he better hope AJ DeBonsa turns into Kevin Garnett. He needs some wins, man. But he's averaging like 25 and 9.5 for his career, right? Yeah, that's crazy. 25 points, nine and a half assists for his career.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But you know, the thing that they're gonna people are gonna struggle with, I call this the DeMar DeRozan problem. Like, DeMar DeRozan could end up 10th all time in points scored in two years by the time he's done playing. Is DeMar DeRozan the Hall of Famer? Nobody says he's a Hall of Fame player, but the numbers are there and they're just kind of undeniable.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. It's it's like you said, man, I think from all three sports, basketball's the easiest, it seems like. Well, I I I haven't uh I haven't included hockey, but the three top major sports baseball, NFL, baseball to me being the hardest, I I think that I think the NBA is the easiest. Well, it's a basketball, basketball whole thing. So that does include college as well. But it does include college, international.
SPEAKER_00International. But I mean, most of these guys now, if you're an international player, you're playing in the NBA too, right? Eventually, you're getting there. Um, you could if you win Olympic medal or FIBA stuff like that, I'll help your resume. But so much of it now, if you're an NBA player, is gonna be based off what you do in the NBA.
SPEAKER_01True indeed. Once again, we're talking to Mike Vorkinoff of the Athletics. So everybody in the chat. Like, share, and subscribe. Remember that this show is available also in audio podcast format, so you don't have to miss it. And make sure you guys are following Mike on Twitter at Mike Vorkanoff, V-O-R-K-U-N-O-V. Uh Mike, this week, surprising news. It just came out like, oh, by the way, the Lakers got flipped. I said, wait, wait, what? You know, I thought I was reading old news. I thought I was reading last year's news. The Lakers getting flipped from by Mark Walter. He comes in, you know, he's got the Dodgers, he's got this, that, and the third. Oh, the Lakers are gonna be phenomenal. Next thing you know, he flips them for you know bucky for pennies in his terms. What'd you think of that?
SPEAKER_00I mean, listen, I'm like everybody else. I was shocked, right? Like he took control of the team in October or something like that. Um, I was shocked. But, you know, you take a step back, it kind of makes a little bit of sense. I don't know how many how much people have been following this, and honestly, I understand if you haven't, um, it's very in the weeds, but Mark Walter and you know, a few of his companies are under federal investigation, right? The feds are looking into whether those there were some financial improprieties with some of these insurance companies that he runs and kind of how he allocated certain things. And so it seems like um, you know, there's been reports that he was looking for investors and looking uh for a way to kind of make some uh to claw back some money so he could deal with this um investigation into him. And so, you know, Bloomberg reported the other day that selling the Lakers was one of them, was one of the ways. And, you know, it's it's really fascinating because it was clear when he bought the team, he wasn't trying to be a short-term owner, but then stuff popped up and it he had to be, and he made look 25% uh appreciation on the Lakers value in like a year, basically, which is pretty good. It doesn't mean he's netting two and a half billion dollars. He only owed like I think he owned somewhere around 60% of the Lakers, but that's that's still you're clearing more than the billion dollars profit in a year. Uh so that's pretty good. And now, like, I'm kind of curious what happens going forward because the whole thing was we're gonna make the the Dodgers and the Dodgers defy the Lakers, right? Like more process, more analytics, more all this type of stuff, all the stuff that makes, I think the Dodgers to me are the best organization all sports, period. Um, and they were starting down that track. They had Dodgers GM kind of like going in there doing some analysis. They had another former high-ranking baseball exec in there doing some analysis. And so, like, what comes of that now? What do Bob Iger and Josh Kushner stand for, aside from you know, owning a team and paying a lot of money for it and getting to say that you're an NBA owner? I don't know because that could have been a real way to like turn the Lakers into not just somewhere that's in LA, but like a real, like one of the best organizations in the league, right? And as the Knicks have shown, if you're in New York and you're one of the smartest organizations in the league, like that's pretty dangerous. So we don't know where that's going. We don't know if they're gonna reboot that, take another route, uh start from you know the ground floor all over again. Nobody really knows how Bob Iger and Josh Kushner want to run a team, but it's a pretty important question for the NBA going forward.
SPEAKER_01And that is my question, not just with the Lakers, but in in sports in general now, as you're seeing, the valuations are going up, profitability is questionable, expenses through the roof when you factor in salaries and and all of that, you know, the Lakers fan, the passion fan base, the ump team championships and all of that. Like, what is a Lakers fan supposed to be thinking now? Your team just gets flipped, like, you know, with with the proliferation of private equity now in sports, how is a fan supposed to trust like the direction of a team? Is it just a cash grab, or are you really truly investing in a winner? Very interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a tough question. I mean, look, I will say, in most cases, you're not owning an NBA team to make money, but you can make money with an NBA team. Like, if you look at the Knicks, they're one of the few publicly traded companies, right? They just released their earnings earlier this week. Uh they made they played nine playoff games in 2025 at MSG and nine playoff home games in 2026, and they made 67 million dollars more in revenue this year, which is wild. They're averaging, I think, $20 million per home game in revenue, which is crazy stuff for the playoffs. Um, you know, I think they ended up making like $58 million in profit, MSG Sports did. So there's money to be made, right? That's after paying his salaries and expenses and all that type of stuff. Um, so there's money to be made there. And I think the way that the NBA uh rules with the new CBA work is you know, it's kind of curbing owner spending, right? Like you got the second apron, it's a great excuse to say we don't need to spend to the moon now. Like we've got all these things in place we can't do, we can't go into the second apron. That's kind of putting a limit on spending, and owners get to get out of, you know, spending to the level that the Warriors and the Clippers did five, six years ago. And so as I think as long as you are not um for a lot of teams, as long as you're not kind of like getting into that second apron or hovering around it, you're probably gonna make money. Like there's so much money in the ecosystem for the NBA now. You're probably gonna be good. Um, especially if you've you know, if especially if you're not one of those teams uh that lost their local media rights stuff. And so it shouldn't be one or the other. Can we win, right? Or do we have to make money? Like, you should be in a position to be able to do both. If your owner's not trying to do both, that's a problem. Uh, you're not owning teams to try to make 20 million profit every year. And so um I I think I think it it is harder to become an NBA fan now because like you don't know what the real motivations are, but like I mean, really, it's never been easier to see if you have a smart organization and smart front office and smart ownership group than ever before, because now that every owner is basically under the second apron, spending is no longer an excuse. Now it's like, are you competent enough to do the job? And if you're not, does your owner care and is he willing to start over and get someone who is? Yeah, that that's certainly a good point.
SPEAKER_01Uh this week you spent some time in the courtroom, the uh the gambling scandal going on. Terry Rosier, you had the co-defending situation, uh Chauncey Billups, not this week, but he's also getting processed. Um, what were some of the developments uh from from the gambling scandal?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was a little bit crazy. I mean, we we came in, they had a kind of a you know a status update hearing, and someone, you know, one of the defendants left in handcuffs, right? Uh they the judge ruled that they were probably intimidating witnesses and trying to obstruct justice, and so they lost their their uh their freedom and got put into custody, federal custody. And so um aside from that, which is a very big aside from that, you know, it looks like Terry Rogier and Chauncey Bills are headed to trial. Uh Chauncey Bills, who's in the rigged poker game case, about half of those defendants have you know pleaded guilty. It seems like some more are gonna plead guilty in the future. Um, and they're headed for trial November 30th. It seems like Chauncey and his lawyers have made it seem that they're willing to go to trial. And then uh in the other case, the Terry Rogier case, his lawyer said in court this past week, he's headed to trial. That trial's scheduled for February 8th, uh, 2027. So that'll be interesting. And I mean, you you could have a listen, nothing uh nothing takes back the curtain on what's going on in the NBA more than a federal trial where you're gonna have discovery and people on stand and testimony under risk of perjury, right? Um, so we'll see. I'm sure the NBA would not want that to happen. You don't want your you know, your league essentially um put on stand, but that's kind of where we're headed. And you know, Malik Beasley and Ed Davis are are in a case of their own, and we'll see what happens with that too. But it's a it's a fraught time for the league and to have so many players charged with federal crimes. You know, John Tay Porter, Damon Jones have already pleaded guilty. And so we'll see what trial brings if uh if we get there in November and in February.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, no wonder Adam Silver has no hair, man. I don't know if I want to be the commissioner of the NBA, man. You got gambling scandal going on, you got Kawhi Leonard taking money under the table. He seems to be on phase, he's just he's globe-trotting everywhere, like, hey, I'm I'm here. So, you know, you got expansion. Are they going to Vegas? Uh I mean, hey man, he the commissioner's got his hands full, man. Uh but you know, one thing I didn't hear from him when he was in Vegas doing the uh the State of the Union. I didn't hear if, you know, the NBA, if they're gonna enact any like additional governance procedures, or they are any mandates for the teams to kind of guard against this. I didn't I don't think I caught that in his address.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean they've they can you know once the feds dropped their indictment and made it public, the league kind of like they say restarted their gambling investigation because they were looking into Beasley, they were looking into Terry Rogier. Obviously they didn't find anything, right? Because those guys did get taken off the court. Um, but you know, they've tried some things like making teams report injuries a little more frequently. Uh they're continuing to look into it. You know, it's really a question like it's a question of like how can you really police who the players and the coaches are talking to? Because like you don't you just don't know, right? Like, why was Terry Rogier and his, you know, one of his good friends in communication allegedly with sports gamblers, right? Like, why was Chauncey Bills? He hasn't been charged with it, but why was he in communication with someone else who who got charged and has a history of um being charged by the feds? Like all these types of situations happen, and even Damon Jones, he was, you know, he was he was alleged to have sold information to sports gamblers, he pleaded guilty to it. Like, you just don't know who everyone's talking to, you don't know their financial situations, and I don't know what the NBA can do to really fully stop that. And not that's not to let the league off the hook, but it's just a legit problem. It's like, what can you really do? You can't get into everyone's phones, you can't get into um you know policing who you can and cannot talk to. And so that's a problem, and as long as that's unsolvable, I don't know if you can ever fully say, okay, we got to hold on this, like we know what we're doing here, because you just you don't know what you don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good points. Certainly good points there. Uh anything on the fires? Are you working on anything um coming up next week?
SPEAKER_00I'm working on vacation. That's it. That's all I'm doing. I'm working on vacation. Don't bother me next week.
SPEAKER_01That's it, man. Well, Mike, it's a great time, man. Saw you in Vegas, saw you in the city. So I appreciate the time here, and we'll catch up during the course of the NBA season, man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely, man. You're living a good life. I saw you at the parade, saw you in Vegas at the uh, was it not? It wasn't Thompson Mac. I saw you at Cox Pavilion. Yep, yep, yep. Uh hanging out. So I'm sure next MICU is gonna be MSG in October.
SPEAKER_01That's it, man. Enjoy the weekend, enjoy the time off, get some rest, and we'll catch up.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, man. You too.
SPEAKER_01Yes, sir. All right, ladies and gentlemen, that was the great Mike Vorkinov joining us on today's show. Hope you guys enjoyed it, man. It's a great, great conversation, great conversation, lots going on in the league. You know, the league's got everybody in their frenzy, man. They got guys gambling, they got guys taking money under the table. Uh team spending, teams not spending. We're gonna get new teams to beat the Knicks. We gotta get a team in Seattle, we gotta get a team in Las Vegas to topple the New York Knicks Juggernaut, the Hall of Fame Juggernaut. Everything, see how everything, all the topics on the show came together. Shout out to Mike, though. Good guy. Very, very good guy. And uh great reporter. Make sure you guys are following him at Mike Vorkinoff, V-O-R-K, U N O V. Shout out to Mike. That's right, man. Salute. So to everybody in the chat, man. Whether you're watching on the NBA report side, you're watching on the Knicks fan TV side, shout out to um everybody on the Facebook checking in. Sean Aiken says, who cares? Talk Knicks and Knicks only. No, sir, this is my show. I will talk about what I want to talk about. You watch what you want to watch, I will talk about what I want to talk about, okay? You thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Shout out to Terry Cow in the chat. JJ from Brooklyn. Shout out to JJ, shout out to you. This guy thinks he's a producer on the show, man. What is this guy talking about? It's my show, sir, not your show. I don't dictate what we're gonna talk about on today's program. Timothy Dans, I see. Shout out to Will Latima on a lunchtime grind. It's good to be back, man. As you can see, it took me a little while to get my sea legs and and you know get it get it going. But I'm back, man. Back in full tilt. So, yeah, man. Uh, enjoy the weekend. Remember, like, share, subscribe. You can catch these shows on audio podcast format. What do you guys think? Brunson Towns, Hall of Fame bid, Eastern Conference Power Rankings, Lakers getting sold. What do you guys think, man? Leave some comments in the comment section. Well, once again, great to be back. All my daughter, salute to you. Shout out to Aiden Wilson. You know, I was talking about my vacation last night with Alex. No, I forgot to mention who I ran into in Croatia was one Bojan Bogdanovich. Shout out to him, man. Yeah, he was at uh he was at this jazz bar that I that I typically frequent. So he showed up there. I was like, what are you doing here? He was like, what are you doing here? I was like, yeah, you know, I'm I'm here, man. Nixon 5. You know, so haha yeah, shout out to him. Yeah, I ran into Bogdanovich, man. Just randomly just chilling outside of my jazz bar in uh in Dubrovnik there, man. But either way, happy Friday, man. Gonna eat some lunch, get to the gym. Nixon 5, ladies and gentlemen. We out of here, man. Like, share, subscribe. Great show. Thanks again.