Synergy

Uncovering Hope Through Crime and Dysfunction | Luke Wilson's Story | Pt 1

• Daniel & Alicia • Season 1 • Episode 14

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Ever wondered how one’s upbringing can shape their life? Or how understanding and empathy can lead to personal transformation? Join us for a captivating journey with our guest, Luke Wilson, founder of Paylos. From a challenging background in Dandenong, to engaging in petty crimes with his Cambodian friends, and to discovering the startling truth about his lineage, Luke's story is nothing short of remarkable. His resilience and transformation are awe-inspiring, and there's much to learn from his journey.

We also take a deep dive into the often ignored but crucial topic of personal trauma and redemption. It's a raw, real and relatable tale of growing up in a dysfunctional family, the struggles of coping with trauma through drugs and crime, and the journey towards healing and self-discovery. Most importantly, we discuss the power of storytelling and understanding someone's narrative. This chapter, full of emotion and empathy, emphasises how learning someone's story can lead to profound understanding and connection.

Lastly, we touch upon a transformative experience – the powerful impact of Christian camps in shaping Luke's character and values. Reflecting on personal experiences, we juxtapose the serious expectations of everyday life with the freedom and exploration offered at the camps. It's an enlightening conversation about relationships, leadership, and masculinity. 

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Speaker 1:

One, two, three, four. Welcome to Synergy, the podcast where we uncover the secrets to successful relationships, effective leadership and transformative parenting. I'm your host, Alicia.

Speaker 2:

And I'm Dan, and we'll deep dive into relationships, friendships and, most importantly, the relationship we have with ourselves. Together, we'll explore different strategies, techniques and approaches that can help you achieve synergy in every aspect of your life.

Speaker 1:

Stay curious, keep learning and embrace the power of Synergy. Welcome to another episode of Synergy. We have.

Speaker 2:

I'm pumped for today. This is our first guest Yay welcome. Luke Wilson from Payloss, welcome to Synergy.

Speaker 3:

Thanks, I feel super welcome. It's been awesome.

Speaker 2:

I first met Luke very recently in the car audio business and did a job and we got chatting and I came home and I was like to leash straight away. We've got to get Luke on the podcast, Like it's such an interesting story about business in the small chat that we had. But I think the beauty about it is leash really doesn't know much about it.

Speaker 1:

So I'll be asking all the questions that everyone else listening will be asking. It was intentional, for sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah cool, so let's get into it. Yeah tell us, luke, tell us about what's your age, your gender Story. Yeah, asl, yeah yeah, so I guess we'll dive into personal stuff, yeah so if we wind back to, yeah, pre-business, and then we can sort of talk about how you landed in Payloss and what Payloss is about, so I guess more about you and your story and where this I guess the foundation of this started for you.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, for sure. It's really interesting telling your life story, essentially because you know you could. Yeah, I mean, it's what 31 years of life that you're trying to pick out the highlights, and so I'll try to focus on the highlights that are going to be most, I guess, relevant to this.

Speaker 3:

So yeah, so I grew up with predominantly a single mum on the disability pension in Deninon so housing commission kind of thing, we had a Cambodian family that their parents like refugees from the Khmer Rouge and that kind of stuff, so I guess they were dealing with their stuff. My mum was dealing with her stuff, you know, family violence victim and with her mental health and that kind of stuff, and so I guess the early years in Deninon were quite interesting, do you have brothers and sisters, yeah, so I've got.

Speaker 3:

I'm the eldest of three brothers, but I didn't know about them. I knew about one brother.

Speaker 1:

OK.

Speaker 3:

And so so kind of getting up to no good with my Cambodian family that I like to call them, cause their parents are gone and my mum was, I guess, struggling, so we're just really kind of. The best way to describe it was like Lord of the Flies, but in Daddy Noong kind of.

Speaker 2:

Thing.

Speaker 3:

Cause we're just yeah, we're just trying to make do, we're trying to like, we're just stealing food from like the milk bar and stuff like that, and we'll just kind of share that. So that's kind of the setting that we're in. You know our parents like we've been missing for a few days and we just kind of like into turn ourselves?

Speaker 1:

So your dad, in all of this, was he with you, or?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I might get to him in a second, just because the way he fits in is really interesting. So, I, the man that I thought was my dad, wasn't actually my biological father, which is an interesting kind of piece, so I had. So I was born in Mexico and my mum yeah.

Speaker 3:

And my mum came to Australia. So my mum married my stepfather in Mexico, came back to Australia when I was you know seven months, whatever, and then, when I was three, had my brother Tony, and then when I was four, they split and you know similar kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

So this whole time you thought that that was your dad.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I thought that was my dad and so, yeah, so at the time he was struggling with his mental health and trauma and that kind of stuff, and so I guess we were kind of being impacted by that and mum had to kind of put some space in there. And so with my Cambodian friends, we're getting into a lot of trouble and we essentially, I think, we started robbing houses in our area and we got in trouble with the police because there was literally just a crumb trail of. So we stole a PlayStation, some cookies and some chips and some lollies, that kind of stuff, and so it's just Getting ready for a good night.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, right Because.

Speaker 2:

I'm like Some key items there yeah.

Speaker 3:

And because I was in the police to just laugh and like what burglar it takes to play a PlayStation and some cookies.

Speaker 2:

You might get a munchies while you're playing. I'm 100% and so but we were right next door.

Speaker 3:

So, like when we got, we were found out by the police. I think I was like seven at the time, the first time we had police involvement and we're just like you know, burglar monkeys with like chocolates and obviously. I couldn't do anything with us. But I was like, yeah, I talked about first kind of police involvement. Yeah, so it's around that time we were doing burglaries because we had like a four-year-old or a five-year-old like keeping watch. Yeah, you stand in the leatherbox. Let us know, if we know, what that's like Really.

Speaker 1:

Right around like rocks with the ingot ofant. Wow, I just thinking about it, like Nikietas 4?. Yeah, yeah, that's insane.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so it's. It's just absolutely yeah, I just so. Anyway, in my mind, this triggered my real dad to enter the picture. So I'm now 31 and I've only recently, like this year, learnt the full story about my relationship with my dad, with me, which is crazy, and that's almost like its own podcast.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah yeah shit.

Speaker 3:

But so what happens is my mom, my auntie, tells my mom like you've got to tell Luke's father about Luke, because he doesn't know about me, right?

Speaker 2:

I think he knows about me.

Speaker 3:

Right, so my dad is like remarried to other kids.

Speaker 1:

And doesn't know that he has a son. Doesn't know.

Speaker 3:

And I think that he knows and doesn't want me.

Speaker 1:

Right, so I think that he thinks that I'm this mistake from his previous relationship, and so was it never a conversation with your mom, like your mom never had this conversation? No, yeah, so that yeah.

Speaker 3:

So at seven, this is where my mom bumped into him at the plaza and kind of was like my mom bumped into the plaza that my auntie was like to her, look, you really need to tell him. And so the mom was like I got it, I got it. So then my mom sits me down and is like you know, this man's not your dad, this man's your dad, right, and I so at the time my dad wanted me to come to live with him, but I wasn't aware of that. That kind of got lost in communication. I thought my mom was like, oh, he's getting in trouble with the police and I thought she was tapping out. So like, obviously I'm seven trying to make sense of my.

Speaker 2:

I was gonna say like when you reflect back on that as a seven year old being told that, like that pretty heavy news to hear. How did you process that at seven?

Speaker 3:

Yeah well, so it was weird, because I guess my main focus was my brother that I was living with. I was like oh, am I still like, is he?

Speaker 1:

still my brother.

Speaker 3:

That was the thing with that running through my mind and then then there was like it was definitely a rush right. So there's a rush of like why didn't he come?

Speaker 2:

before, like where has he been?

Speaker 3:

So many questions, yeah, and then it's like, and then and this is something I'll unpack a little bit later around like what like a child's brain does when it, when it experiences like trauma and that disruption relationships, like we feel we feel gaps, right, and that's what I've kind of learned about my story. I've field a lot of gaps and and I was speaking to my mom and speaking to my dad as we started to unpack this recently, hearing their side of the story, I'm like oh, that made so much sense, but I had and then my mom's feelings, like today, like my mom still cries and like apologizes.

Speaker 3:

I'm like I'm sorry, like she feels really guilty that she didn't explain that to me. But I think you know both mom and dad have said there was a lot of assumption. They thought that I knew these elements right, but honestly I was just hit with like a bomb.

Speaker 2:

And I'm just trying to like. I'm shell shot.

Speaker 3:

I'm like, oh, so you're here because the police have rocked up, because I got caught doing a burglary, and I'm like, oh, like, nah, you can get F Like I don't know, and I was so angry at him Like you want me now, like you know, and I thought my mom was tapping out that she had enough Like, oh, he's too naughty, take him.

Speaker 2:

Go passing it on. Yeah, right At that time.

Speaker 1:

So there's like all this abandonment happening and I'm like, oh, he's.

Speaker 3:

He's rejected me, right, Like in my mind, like he's rejected me and I don't want to lose my mom, so I'm too,

Speaker 2:

much for my mom yeah.

Speaker 3:

So I'm like, and I just remember. And probably your brother too.

Speaker 3:

Yeah 100% and I remember like my mind kicked into don't worry, I'll be good, I'll be really really good and we'll make this work, like don't give up, we can. We can kind of pull through this. It was really interesting. Is that just resulted in more drugs and crime? But I think it was like it was my kind of way of like I talk into my Cambodian neighbors and I'm like guys, we've got to like you know, I don't want to go to my dad. We've got to do this, we started doing like.

Speaker 2:

Can I just ask how much was that drugs and crime your medication for dealing with what you had just been told?

Speaker 3:

That didn't really come in Cause. I didn't really start like. I think I first started, like you know, like smoking weed and that can start for around like 12, I think at 11 or 12, I remember that kind of kicked in, so there wasn't that kind of like trying to numb pain. I think really happened in 14, 15, 16 in like those teenage years, like I was.

Speaker 3:

the trauma was really coming up and anger towards my dad and feeling like you know, looking for that identity and sense of purpose. So that's kind of all happening. And then right, so substances that you can just kind of numb at all.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like think about it.

Speaker 3:

Really play a good part there. Yeah, 100%. And then you got, like you know, I experienced sexual abuse, I think, at like four or five or six around that time, and then again, I think, when I was at 13 or 14, right.

Speaker 1:

So there's like two significant Events.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, of like being quite violated and then kind of impacting like obviously at the time not knowing, but now as an adult and kind of the studies that I've done been like, oh, that would have really impacted my view of how safe I was in the world and my response to the world and how do I keep myself safe? Right, so that really came out in. I get adolescent years, I think younger.

Speaker 3:

it was like on the grind of like so we started like doing more robberies and that kind of stuff, like we've got to get cleverer to not get caught.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

But I've got to be less of a burden on my mom so we can start to like yeah, like cause I'm talking like basically stealing like two or three or four dollars so we can go get a box of migraines. So then we can then like last another two or three days that my mom doesn't have to cook for me.

Speaker 1:

So then she's not feeling the stress, yeah, so you're like taking all her shit on, yeah, as well as your stuff. Yeah, such a young age.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, my mom wasn't really aware of this, when she feels really guilty about this. And but that was just me kind of like trying to make sense of that, yeah, right.

Speaker 3:

And so so that kind of goes on a trajectory and and, and, like you know, the older guys that I was hanging out with, like you, know, they. They'll get the younger kids to fight like pit bulls, like, oh, like you punch on with them and and and then like you can't stop until somebody bleeds or whatever it is Right. So it's a very kind of dangerous.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Like it just wasn't wasn't nice.

Speaker 3:

And my mom was like, such a pacifist, like we weren't allowed to watch Power Rangers or Ninja Turtles was too violent.

Speaker 1:

But you're out here. Yeah, punch it on, dude.

Speaker 3:

And I'm like seven years old and, like the older boys, like you got to fight, david. And then, yeah, we start crying and then we're like someone towards the punch and because we're scared that we're going to get beaten up, but we just love each other so much it's like my best friend and like so, yeah, so that was. It was just a really kind of isn't that so interesting.

Speaker 1:

That bit right, that bit right there is really curious. It really fascinates me, because if I hear your story and there's so much in like not security in your life, with your loved ones that you're with your friends who you love.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Punching on.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That kind of. Has that played out in your like later years?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean oh geez AE saying in terms of like dysfunctional connection, is that yeah, yeah?

Speaker 3:

Dysfunctional connection around like the violence and the people that you love the safety, the safety part, for sure.

Speaker 1:

And then with the people that you love. But you're, you know, I just look at that's like how you do anything's how you do everything For sure.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so having impact on how I understand relationships and how relate? Definitely I think you know I was speaking to Daniel out there. So if I skip a little bit forward to towards the where things take a positive turn, is that 18, I became a Christian, I gave my life to God and what you see from, I think, from.

Speaker 1:

Can we just like just go one step before that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

How did that happen? Yeah, Okay, Cool so so.

Speaker 3:

So I guess my yeah, okay, so I'll jump back to that, but I'll just quickly say I did kind of work out a lot of my adolescence with some positive mentors, and that's kind of how we got to here.

Speaker 1:

Right so.

Speaker 3:

I definitely saw the impact of that. But I was really lucky I had support networks that helped me to kind of remap relationships and I and I refer that I refer that to. I refer to that as my discipleship process. Before I was a Christian there was like a. I said to my friends like I felt like I was being discipled before I became a Christian because we're having really important conversations around relationships and sexuality.

Speaker 1:

And where, where, where? Yeah, cool, all right, so yeah.

Speaker 3:

So, so essentially, where right now is you've got? Yeah, you got like kind of like being beaten up by kids in the area with with with stealing things, with starting to dabble in drugs, starting to get interested in girls and and that's happening. And so around about 12, there's an organization called Temcare that donates some money to my mom to send us on a camp called COIC, so Christian youth camps, right, and so we're a really strong atheist family and and yeah, I mean look at my last start like I'm not at all rotten tied to flandests.

Speaker 3:

You're like I'm not on that end, right. And so then my mom signs up these camps and I'm so angry because I had like a party go to, I had like weed to smoke, I had like, yeah, and I put on this bus and I'm just like really, really angry. So I got to this camp called COIC down in Phillip Island and and they put us, they put us to bed at around about like seven or eight, and I'm like, of course, you Christians, you've got to go to bed early, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I was like, oh, so annoying. I'm just like, anyway, and then at 10 o'clock at night they wake us up and they take us down to the main street of cows to the later tag and arcade game place for us to have unlimited games, and I'm just like my world's been rocked. I'm like, oh, isn't this a sin, like you guys are late, like it's about your bedside Right.

Speaker 1:

Just all these like stories that you think.

Speaker 2:

What, what? The picture of what you think, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

And they just shattered that picture, yeah, and I thought it was going to be like a monastery or a conversion camp, was like they filled up a swimming pool, like inflatable swimming pool, with like jelly spaghetti and we had to like wrestle around and like it was like.

Speaker 2:

Nickelodeon yeah.

Speaker 3:

And I'm like yeah, my mom's a single mom on a disability pension. Like we got no money. We're not going to these funk.

Speaker 1:

And I'm like, I'm like singing songs around a campfire.

Speaker 3:

I'm like, yeah, doing Nickelodeon things Like this is the stuff that I watch Nickelodeon and I'm with my Cambodian mates like oh, how cool would it be to you know, do that.

Speaker 1:

And I'm doing that.

Speaker 3:

And so essentially now, for the first time, I have a safe place to go, and this is a pivotal moment in my life that. I like I would cross the bridge at San Remo and and I just remember this, this weight kind of coming off my chest, like I knew that for these next five days no one's going to jump me what did you go like?

Speaker 1:

was this the first time? Yeah, that was the first time.

Speaker 3:

And then I was like I was like, like mom, that's like that's the closest I'm going to get to Disneyland.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so.

Speaker 3:

Temcare paid for half of it, and then CYC paid for the other half, and so me and my little brother were able to go for like 50 bucks for like a whole week of camp and food. Wow, that's so cool, and we did that every single school holidays and my favorite thing to do, and so I knew I've got five days when no one's going to jump me. Yeah, I've got five days, you're accepted and you feel safe.

Speaker 1:

I'm in love.

Speaker 3:

I've got good food I don't have to like try one of my neighbors.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, to get my next meal, right, yeah, and so yeah, so that's just been so pivotal.

Speaker 3:

And I remember getting there and and they did like 30 minutes of like a Bible study in the mornings which I was like you know, I was like, ah, snooze, like this is boring right, but then I had people that yeah, like you know, spent some time with me and then I was really skeptical of this Christianity stuff and then I started to be, yeah, like just kind of all right. So why, you know, asking questions.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and that's when it really started to unpack around things like, yeah, sexuality and relationships and conflicts and rupturing a relationship and then repairing that relationship. We started to talk about things like humility and and the role of leadership and the difference between a leader and a boss. Like a boss would kind of like, you know, tell people what to do, whether the leader would have, kind of like, set the example and what forward.

Speaker 3:

I remember the guy that was managing the camp. I thought it was a millionaire, right. He had like a boat, a few cars and had this this camp for a while. And and I saw him cleaning the toilets one day and I remember I was like this little camera was like maybe 13 or 14. And I'm just like I was like, hey, man, like you, what are you doing? Like you, like, why are you cleaning the toilet? Like you're the richest man that I know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's why you can pay someone to do this.

Speaker 3:

And I remember he said to me something along the lines of like you know, if you want to lead a team like you can't, you can't expect your leaders to, or you can't expect your, your staff members to do things that you're not prepared to do yourself.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

And so my view of like leadership, my view of like healthy masculinity, my view of like adulthood and all that kind of stuff like, was significantly impacted and rocked.

Speaker 1:

In a positive.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, at this at this place, it was like there's a new perceptions on like relationships. There's new perceptions on like forgiveness and rupture of relationships and repairing relationships.

Speaker 1:

Like how do I repair relationship?

Speaker 3:

and and that humility to kind of to own something, or or even owning something that's not really on you but like I do, I'm just going to. I'm just going to own this one. So I really value our relationship more. Like I got to see that out worked from 12 to 18 on these camps every school holidays.

Speaker 1:

So how many did you go on?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I don't know. It's six years of four. I don't know. Yes, what's that 24? At least 24 camps, yeah, if not more so like summer holidays and school holidays kind of thing, and yeah.

Speaker 2:

How much of those camps took you from the boy to the man?

Speaker 3:

Oh, I saw it like so much, Like I can't yeah, Like I just I'm so, so grateful to like these guys are just the most valuable, yeah, and so I think where that really comes from like we're kind of really kind of to unpack that is what's really sad, I guess is that no one from that from my group have really made it out Right. Like I was saying, I had a few friends that have died because of a heroin overdose. I had friends that are like homeless or in a psych ward or I have the ones that have gone to these camps with you.

Speaker 2:

No, the ones that did Prior to the camps.

Speaker 3:

Right, right, right. Friends that I grew up with, friends I was doing drugs with, and that kind of stuff, right, and so Can I just ask that me, that when you went to these camps yeah, what was it like coming back to?

Speaker 1:

what was reality for you?

Speaker 2:

Because there's an element of like I guess you separating from the herd of Like your close mates, and then like maybe there was jealousy playing out or rejection playing out, like when you came back, what was that like?

Speaker 3:

So A very clear thing was that, like there was an element of being parentified, you had to be the adult in that space, right. You had to, like at eight or nine or ten or whatever it was. The expectation was that you were meant to be quite serious and you had to get money or get something or you had to be cool and whatever they kind of perceived to be cool kind of thing, right. So there was no real role to be a kid and be silly and do that kind of Nickelodeon stuff, right. So I guess the main thing that I experienced between the two worlds was I had to come here and be serious and try to be cool, to fit in, but secretly, like everyone.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, you've got to pretend like you're a man, it was almost like you know, like if you have like someone that's like a closeted, like homosexual, that they really want to express this, and I just like bury that down deep, as that's what I was almost like. I had this child in me that just wanted to play and I had to like kind of bury it, to be like yeah, that's what we don't do, that here, that's not for now.

Speaker 1:

Like with your, with your friends back at home that we ever like come with me, like I want, can they? Could they have gone with you? Or were they just not open to that?

Speaker 3:

Look, I think, was, I think, was. I think it was a little bit tricky in the sense that, look, I think there was an element of like I needed that break.

Speaker 1:

So I think it was an element of like you needed to break away from.

Speaker 3:

Yeah and I like yeah. I think there's an element of like you're not gonna let me yeah sing a song around like a big great big moves or something whatever like this to the camp songs, because I'm like yeah, I think that was an element of like I just won't enjoy myself.

Speaker 2:

Yeah too. Too much judgment in that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and it's not like it's not like they'll bullies judgment. I think it was just there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they will culture with that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, they weren't trying to pee on me, like, yeah, that's how they knew how to do life and to survive. I had to do life with them, like they're like, oh, that's not if I'm cool. I'm like, yeah, it's not cool.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it was all of us. Just really, I just want to see.

Speaker 2:

Jumping a bullet spaghetti.

Speaker 3:

You just, I just want to be and I know they just wanted to be a kid. But we can't tell anyone that you wanted to be a clear kid, right it's like.

Speaker 1:

I relate that back to business, though, because that's culture right. So, when there's a culture of something, can somebody's in that culture and they don't feel like they can do anything outside of that culture. That's essentially what it is right. It's your guys. Operated as a friend, sure.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it was almost like I didn't really have to transition. I could live too large yeah do the kids stuff and I could come here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm cool.

Speaker 3:

Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah like was there anything going on for you inside, like feeling wise, like did you feel like when you like? What did you feel when you're at the camp? And then what did you feel when you went back home and you were doing those things? From like a congruency perspective, like yeah um, look, I mean, you were pretty young, so I don't know if this is yeah, yeah so I think so.

Speaker 3:

So for some context, like the, the movies that we grew up on were like boys in the hood and menace the society. But, out which I see, no seven year old should know right, yeah, but you want to do the stuff that you see on the movie. So it's not that I didn't enjoy being cool and breaking into houses and because I was just like one of those, but this local is, I was just like one of those dudes from Crenshaw, what about it?

Speaker 3:

So that was so cool. Yeah, kind of like ride a bike and. Yeah, I'm not saying that you know it, but it was like that, yeah, hanging out with those friends, it was like there was an element of excitement and that's kind of like a little bit later with the youth work and payless like and stuff. We are trying to connect with kids who have significant pool factors because it is really fun to steal cars and do yeah, hang out with girls and you're literally living a GTA lifestyle.

Speaker 1:

That's a significant pool.

Speaker 3:

So our program has to combat that pool. To be like I understand it's really exciting and I've got to kind of respond to something Super exciting is kind of pull you away from that.

Speaker 2:

So you make positive choices to. But understanding the world.

Speaker 3:

That Do not deny that, like riding around in the car at 14 or 15 is not gonna be fun and cool. Yeah and then rocking up to a house, because I remember that. I remember being like with some of my friends at like 15 or 16, rocking up to a house party and we're like my mates go to WRX, like everyone else that walked there to the house buddy, and then you like talking to a girl and like I would drive you home. You know, yeah, like what a step up, as I'm 15 years old.

Speaker 1:

And you're not allowed to drive, so it's even cooler.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no one else is driving when I'm allowed to drive and one of my mates is driving illegally using his brother's license or something it's like that was cool.

Speaker 1:

So you have to acknowledge the social status that it gives you right.

Speaker 3:

You can't ignore that so don't be ignorant to how cool that is, and for a teenager or for like a. Yeah for a teenager that's trying to look for identity. Like man, you've got to step up. Like you've got to step up to be able to rock up to a party with a car and all that kind of stuff. Like yeah.

Speaker 2:

What's your view on how society views it? Obviously, from having your story, what's your view on how society views these things? Because, I mean, we're talking about crime and invasion of people's homes and, for the people that experience this, that are on the other side of the fence, not the cool side, do you feel that society lacks empathy towards the people that act out in this way and what might sit behind their story?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's awesome. I think I was talking to my mentor about this. You know, I think I was watching Like Breaking Bad or something. I was watching some kind of oh or where I'm watching Nightcrawls or whatever it is. I'm watching some kind of TV show where the main character is a criminal right and I was saying how you would watch this film. And when the police are coming to raid them, there's a part of you as you're watching it, because they're the main character.

Speaker 3:

You don't want them to get caught, You're like yeah, but I could watch another movie where the main character is a police officer and you're barricading for the main character. We're like he's going to go raid someone, like oh get him.

Speaker 1:

He's going out on the door, yeah.

Speaker 3:

And I was saying that we will always barric for the main character in the movie and when we watch a movie we don't really bring our morals into that where we go, Because when, I watch that. When I think about Breaking Bad or whatever it is, I'm like that guy is selling a significant amount of ice to the community.

Speaker 3:

I'm sure my friends have like died and lost kids or families and homes because of what they're doing, right, so if I thought about that, that guy is horrible, but in that moment when you kind of captured in that story, you can really barric for the bad guy. And so when I was talking to my mentor about this, I was saying, like the power of learning somebody's story for empathy.

Speaker 3:

So, like if you take time to learn somebody's story, you can really start to barric for them. Now I'm not at all suggesting that we barric for somebody to do well as a drug dealer or barric for somebody to do well as a criminal.

Speaker 1:

No, but it's an understanding of how you got into that position and why you got, you know, like that avenue for you to actually go down to do that 100%, and it's like the response.

Speaker 3:

I think the response to any kind of issue is that level of understanding, right. So I think the most powerful step is trying to learn somebody's story and like taking time to learn somebody's story, because once they become like a main character for you, like you're starting to learn about them and they're the main character in the movie that you're essentially watching, you then really start to barric for them.

Speaker 1:

And obviously you're not barricing for them to continue to do drugs, but you're now barricing for them to get a job or get an apprenticeship or getting into a tape course, or whatever.

Speaker 3:

It is Right and I think, yeah, one of the most powerful things the world can do is live more in the city.

Speaker 1:

That's really cool because I've got one of my best friends is in film and she was explaining to me how they actually like frame the story up and what they do before the actual like punchline happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that you can build a relationship with that character for that punchline to happen for you.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, they really like what they're doing or like what they're doing and because you, yeah, like a good movie will make you get butterflies when they're getting butterflies, because I think, yeah, as humans, we're really wide, we're really wide for that Right, and I think as well.

Speaker 1:

We think of you know, like, because I look at that and I'm like OK, that's just a cry for help. Right, that's something's going on for them. They need help, x, y, z. And I think you can look at that and not have that understanding, but I think when we can come from a place of that's, that's a cry for help, that's a cry for love. It's a whole nother story and.

Speaker 1:

I think we look at like we put other people on a pedestal, but when we and we're like, oh, I want to know their story, but really like what you're saying is like, what's this person's story? That's going down, Because everyone has a story and everyone has a really interesting story as well. So I think that's really yeah, really powerful.

Speaker 2:

One thing I was just reflecting on is I remember we got we got bit hooked on a Netflix series called Queen of the South. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it but it's about a lot of Mexican.

Speaker 3:

I think I'm under the drug cartel.

Speaker 2:

It's about Mexico.

Speaker 3:

Oh no, my mother got it sat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And it just made me reflect on what you were saying about where it will barrack for. You know who we barrack for and I think about so many series and things that are out there where you're in that position barracking. But when you take that and put that into society, you know barracking anymore do you understand me?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:

And I think one of the big things that you mentioned is time and understanding someone's story.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:

And in a world today where you know I guess we're all trading for time and a level of convenience, somewhat to give someone that time can be inconvenient and is a path of resistance. But hearing your story is like that's actually what's required for the catalyst of change 100%, 100%, that's exactly.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's exactly yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I think with this is like. This is like a perfect segue to how this personal journey has impacted you to do what you're doing in the business, Sure, so we're going to take a moment and then we're going to get into part two of Luke with Payloss in business.

Speaker 1:

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Speaker 2:

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