{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":5.0,"endTime":9.041,"body":"Each survivor told me I feel completely"},{"startTime":5.0,"endTime":9.041,"body":"torn from within."},{"startTime":9.041,"endTime":13.463,"body":"My experiences have not left me a complete"},{"startTime":9.041,"endTime":13.463,"body":"person anymore."},{"startTime":13.463,"endTime":15.164,"body":"And that one..."},{"startTime":16.124,"endTime":21.57,"body":"central statement that ran through every"},{"startTime":16.124,"endTime":21.57,"body":"interview became also"},{"startTime":21.79,"endTime":26.816,"body":"the central ritual that was presented on"},{"startTime":21.79,"endTime":26.816,"body":"top of the image."},{"startTime":26.816,"endTime":31.0,"body":"So I just realized that if her soul is"},{"startTime":26.816,"endTime":31.0,"body":"injured and if she doesn't feel complete,"},{"startTime":31.0,"endTime":34.004,"body":"then the surface of the print cannot be"},{"startTime":31.0,"endTime":34.004,"body":"complete either."},{"startTime":35.096,"endTime":37.79,"body":"Hello and welcome to the SheClicks Women"},{"startTime":35.096,"endTime":37.79,"body":"in Photography Podcast."},{"startTime":37.79,"endTime":40.423,"body":"I'm Angela Nicholson and I'm the founder"},{"startTime":37.79,"endTime":40.423,"body":"of SheClicks,"},{"startTime":40.423,"endTime":42.296,"body":"which is a community for female"},{"startTime":40.423,"endTime":42.296,"body":"photographers."},{"startTime":42.296,"endTime":46.131,"body":"In these podcasts, I speak to women in the"},{"startTime":42.296,"endTime":46.131,"body":"photographic industry to hear about their"},{"startTime":46.131,"endTime":49.376,"body":"experiences, ⁓ what drives them and how"},{"startTime":46.131,"endTime":49.376,"body":"they got to where they are now."},{"startTime":50.928,"endTime":52.889,"body":"Today I'm joined by Sujata Setia,"},{"startTime":52.889,"endTime":56.271,"body":"an interdisciplinary artist whose work"},{"startTime":52.889,"endTime":56.271,"body":"explores social justice,"},{"startTime":56.271,"endTime":58.272,"body":"gender-based violence, identity,"},{"startTime":58.272,"endTime":62.614,"body":"and lived experiences. ⁓ She creates"},{"startTime":58.272,"endTime":62.614,"body":"powerful work that invites conversation"},{"startTime":62.614,"endTime":66.676,"body":"and reflection. ⁓ She was also the 2025"},{"startTime":62.614,"endTime":66.676,"body":"recipient of"},{"startTime":66.676,"endTime":68.157,"body":"the SheClicks Spotlight Award."},{"startTime":69.061,"endTime":72.28,"body":"Hi, Sujata, thank you so much for joining"},{"startTime":69.061,"endTime":72.28,"body":"me today on the SheClicks Women"},{"startTime":72.28,"endTime":75.58,"body":"in Photography Podcast. It's really"},{"startTime":72.28,"endTime":75.58,"body":"fantastic to have the opportunity"},{"startTime":75.58,"endTime":76.58,"body":"to chat with you again."},{"startTime":76.882,"endTime":79.194,"body":"Thank you so much Angela for creating this"},{"startTime":76.882,"endTime":79.194,"body":"space."},{"startTime":79.194,"endTime":85.475,"body":"I ~ I've always been very honored to work"},{"startTime":79.194,"endTime":85.475,"body":"with SheClicks and there have been"},{"startTime":85.475,"endTime":86.929,"body":"a few opportunities in the past."},{"startTime":86.929,"endTime":88.67,"body":"So thank you so much for this."},{"startTime":89.361,"endTime":91.284,"body":"You're very welcome and thank you for"},{"startTime":89.361,"endTime":91.284,"body":"getting involved."},{"startTime":91.284,"endTime":96.333,"body":"So can we start at the beginning and learn"},{"startTime":91.284,"endTime":96.333,"body":"a little bit about your background"},{"startTime":96.353,"endTime":98.757,"body":"and what first really pulled you into"},{"startTime":96.353,"endTime":98.757,"body":"photography?"},{"startTime":99.774,"endTime":106.098,"body":"~ I think it's a lot of destiny and a lot"},{"startTime":99.774,"endTime":106.098,"body":"that I think"},{"startTime":104.956,"endTime":105.956,"body":"huh."},{"startTime":106.098,"endTime":111.852,"body":"I had always planned for. I ~ remember I"},{"startTime":106.098,"endTime":111.852,"body":"was very young when I started thinking"},{"startTime":111.852,"endTime":118.386,"body":"I want to be an artist. ~ My work is very"},{"startTime":111.852,"endTime":118.386,"body":"autobiographical in nature."},{"startTime":118.386,"endTime":123.59,"body":"~ I am Indian. I moved to the UK"},{"startTime":123.59,"endTime":128.433,"body":"in 2009 ~ as a trailing partner and then"},{"startTime":123.59,"endTime":128.433,"body":"did my masters here"},{"startTime":128.433,"endTime":129.433,"body":"at King's College London."},{"startTime":129.943,"endTime":133.337,"body":"And I was a radio presenter and a"},{"startTime":129.943,"endTime":133.337,"body":"journalist back in India."},{"startTime":133.337,"endTime":137.862,"body":"So my focus has always been marginalized"},{"startTime":133.337,"endTime":137.862,"body":"narratives in whatever work that"},{"startTime":137.862,"endTime":139.155,"body":"I have done, some way or the other."},{"startTime":139.155,"endTime":144.101,"body":"I circle back to stories that do not find"},{"startTime":139.155,"endTime":144.101,"body":"a space in mainstream media"},{"startTime":144.462,"endTime":146.184,"body":"and ~ public discourse."},{"startTime":146.527,"endTime":149.067,"body":"Moving into photography in the UK was a"},{"startTime":146.527,"endTime":149.067,"body":"very practical move."},{"startTime":149.067,"endTime":153.207,"body":"I did my masters here, did not get a job"},{"startTime":149.067,"endTime":153.207,"body":"for the longest time."},{"startTime":153.207,"endTime":156.327,"body":"None of my qualifications from back in"},{"startTime":153.207,"endTime":156.327,"body":"India at that time when I"},{"startTime":156.327,"endTime":161.467,"body":"was looking for opportunities were"},{"startTime":156.327,"endTime":161.467,"body":"suitable for the job market in the UK."},{"startTime":161.467,"endTime":166.127,"body":"So I was scrambling for a while and I"},{"startTime":161.467,"endTime":166.127,"body":"don't know how from where a camera came"},{"startTime":166.127,"endTime":169.647,"body":"my lap at the same time as a newborn baby"},{"startTime":166.127,"endTime":169.647,"body":"came into my lap."},{"startTime":169.647,"endTime":170.647,"body":"So I became..."},{"startTime":170.871,"endTime":173.632,"body":"A mother of a child and a mother of"},{"startTime":170.871,"endTime":173.632,"body":"photography at the same time."},{"startTime":173.632,"endTime":179.034,"body":"~ And ~ yeah, it started by me taking"},{"startTime":173.632,"endTime":179.034,"body":"photographs of my daughter"},{"startTime":173.956,"endTime":174.956,"body":"You"},{"startTime":179.034,"endTime":182.094,"body":"and soon I transitioned into child and"},{"startTime":179.034,"endTime":182.094,"body":"family photography."},{"startTime":182.094,"endTime":185.776,"body":"And then it was only after the passing of"},{"startTime":182.094,"endTime":185.776,"body":"my mother,"},{"startTime":185.776,"endTime":192.332,"body":"in 2019 when I started to focus on"},{"startTime":185.776,"endTime":192.332,"body":"narratives of gender-based violence."},{"startTime":193.426,"endTime":196.299,"body":"Yeah, so it seems like if you used to be a"},{"startTime":193.426,"endTime":196.299,"body":"radio presenter,"},{"startTime":196.299,"endTime":200.574,"body":"then storytelling and communication has"},{"startTime":196.299,"endTime":200.574,"body":"always been part of what you do."},{"startTime":201.152,"endTime":202.152,"body":"Yes,"},{"startTime":202.129,"endTime":203.37,"body":"absolutely. From the beginning."},{"startTime":204.722,"endTime":207.114,"body":"And what was it about photography?"},{"startTime":207.114,"endTime":210.421,"body":"I mean, obviously it's a great way to"},{"startTime":207.114,"endTime":210.421,"body":"document your child's introduction"},{"startTime":210.421,"endTime":214.418,"body":"to the world, but what was it about"},{"startTime":210.421,"endTime":214.418,"body":"photography that really kind of pulled you"},{"startTime":215.532,"endTime":220.842,"body":"~ I think motherhood made me realize"},{"startTime":215.532,"endTime":220.842,"body":"there's just so much history to it."},{"startTime":220.842,"endTime":225.814,"body":"I have grown up with the abuse within my"},{"startTime":220.842,"endTime":225.814,"body":"own personal space."},{"startTime":225.814,"endTime":228.555,"body":"I've just seen domestic abuse while"},{"startTime":225.814,"endTime":228.555,"body":"growing up."},{"startTime":228.555,"endTime":233.486,"body":"I've been a survivor myself of child"},{"startTime":228.555,"endTime":233.486,"body":"abuse."},{"startTime":233.486,"endTime":236.067,"body":"And so when I had a daughter..."},{"startTime":236.969,"endTime":242.2,"body":"It just felt like a strange form of fear"},{"startTime":236.969,"endTime":242.2,"body":"where I felt that I would not"},{"startTime":242.2,"endTime":248.402,"body":"be able to bring her up in a world where"},{"startTime":242.2,"endTime":248.402,"body":"the cycles will not be repeated."},{"startTime":248.402,"endTime":252.423,"body":"And so I felt a sort of distance from her,"},{"startTime":248.981,"endTime":249.981,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":252.423,"endTime":258.524,"body":"very instantaneously. And ~ camera became"},{"startTime":252.423,"endTime":258.524,"body":"a via media between her and me."},{"startTime":258.524,"endTime":263.586,"body":"It became a language. It became a bridge"},{"startTime":258.524,"endTime":263.586,"body":"that brought her and me close"},{"startTime":263.586,"endTime":265.827,"body":"to each other in a space where we were"},{"startTime":263.586,"endTime":265.827,"body":"both equals."},{"startTime":266.243,"endTime":268.964,"body":"So I realized that through the medium of"},{"startTime":266.243,"endTime":268.964,"body":"camera,"},{"startTime":268.964,"endTime":271.585,"body":"and she was the first person I started to"},{"startTime":268.964,"endTime":271.585,"body":"photograph."},{"startTime":271.585,"endTime":273.626,"body":"I started photographing her little"},{"startTime":271.585,"endTime":273.626,"body":"moments."},{"startTime":273.626,"endTime":279.839,"body":"~ And it made me realize that we came into"},{"startTime":273.626,"endTime":279.839,"body":"a space where she needed me to"},{"startTime":279.839,"endTime":284.351,"body":"see her as much as I needed her validation"},{"startTime":279.839,"endTime":284.351,"body":"~ in that moment."},{"startTime":284.351,"endTime":288.653,"body":"~ And so camera has been a language,"},{"startTime":288.653,"endTime":292.474,"body":"~ a way of speaking for me ever since"},{"startTime":288.653,"endTime":292.474,"body":"then."},{"startTime":293.207,"endTime":295.549,"body":"I'm actually a very very inward looking,"},{"startTime":295.549,"endTime":300.704,"body":"not inward looking but a very shy and"},{"startTime":295.549,"endTime":300.704,"body":"socially uncomfortable person"},{"startTime":300.704,"endTime":306.209,"body":"and photography is just my way to feel"},{"startTime":300.704,"endTime":306.209,"body":"like I belong wherever I'm sitting."},{"startTime":307.393,"endTime":310.886,"body":"Was there a point when you specifically"},{"startTime":307.393,"endTime":310.886,"body":"can remember realising that"},{"startTime":310.886,"endTime":313.458,"body":"it wasn't just about taking photographs of"},{"startTime":310.886,"endTime":313.458,"body":"your daughter,"},{"startTime":313.458,"endTime":316.861,"body":"it was actually a method of forming a"},{"startTime":313.458,"endTime":316.861,"body":"connection with her and communicating?"},{"startTime":317.559,"endTime":319.66,"body":"Right in the beginning. moment,"},{"startTime":319.66,"endTime":324.263,"body":"like I said, just picking up the camera"},{"startTime":319.66,"endTime":324.263,"body":"and starting to photograph her"},{"startTime":324.663,"endTime":327.585,"body":"was the first time I started feeling that"},{"startTime":324.663,"endTime":327.585,"body":"connection between her and me."},{"startTime":327.585,"endTime":330.726,"body":"~ Until then, I just felt fear,"},{"startTime":330.726,"endTime":335.109,"body":"anger, ~ and just a whole lot of emotions"},{"startTime":330.726,"endTime":335.109,"body":"that,"},{"startTime":335.109,"endTime":340.352,"body":"you know, traditionally you do not"},{"startTime":335.109,"endTime":340.352,"body":"associate to or with a new mother."},{"startTime":340.352,"endTime":345.645,"body":"~ And it was literally the camera that"},{"startTime":340.352,"endTime":345.645,"body":"saved that bond."},{"startTime":346.52,"endTime":347.712,"body":"and brought us closer to each other."},{"startTime":348.118,"endTime":353.573,"body":"Yes. And now you take a lot of photographs"},{"startTime":348.118,"endTime":353.573,"body":"or do a lot of work around other people's"},{"startTime":353.573,"endTime":355.955,"body":"stories, not quite so close to,"},{"startTime":355.955,"endTime":357.726,"body":"know, not within your family as such."},{"startTime":357.726,"endTime":360.639,"body":"How did you step out into that area?"},{"startTime":361.216,"endTime":364.728,"body":"It also was a very practical decision ~"},{"startTime":361.216,"endTime":364.728,"body":"once I realized that I"},{"startTime":364.969,"endTime":369.832,"body":"do take decent photographs ~ and thank God"},{"startTime":364.969,"endTime":369.832,"body":"for my daughter she was just"},{"startTime":369.832,"endTime":373.935,"body":"so adorable looking at that little young"},{"startTime":369.832,"endTime":373.935,"body":"age that I think it just ended"},{"startTime":373.935,"endTime":378.298,"body":"up being decent looking images and I"},{"startTime":373.935,"endTime":378.298,"body":"started posting them on social media"},{"startTime":378.298,"endTime":381.209,"body":"and a lot of friends and family started"},{"startTime":378.298,"endTime":381.209,"body":"asking me if"},{"startTime":381.209,"endTime":385.723,"body":"I take photographs professionally so also"},{"startTime":381.209,"endTime":385.723,"body":"at that time I was unemployed"},{"startTime":385.723,"endTime":390.566,"body":"I did not have an opportunity to work so I"},{"startTime":385.723,"endTime":390.566,"body":"just picked up the camera as a way to"},{"startTime":391.118,"endTime":397.442,"body":"~ bring bread on the table. And it's so"},{"startTime":391.118,"endTime":397.442,"body":"worked out really well because ~"},{"startTime":397.442,"endTime":399.233,"body":"I never did a free shoot right in the"},{"startTime":397.442,"endTime":399.233,"body":"beginning."},{"startTime":399.233,"endTime":401.265,"body":"I never did a shoot to build up a"},{"startTime":399.233,"endTime":401.265,"body":"portfolio."},{"startTime":401.265,"endTime":406.568,"body":"I just started off straight off by selling"},{"startTime":401.265,"endTime":406.568,"body":"photo shoots to friends and family."},{"startTime":406.568,"endTime":409.59,"body":"And that's where it turned into a"},{"startTime":406.568,"endTime":409.59,"body":"profession very quickly."},{"startTime":410.091,"endTime":413.294,"body":"Yeah, good move I think. So how did you"},{"startTime":410.091,"endTime":413.294,"body":"start discovering,"},{"startTime":413.294,"endTime":416.744,"body":"you going beyond taking the portraits of"},{"startTime":413.294,"endTime":416.744,"body":"your friends and family"},{"startTime":416.744,"endTime":420.481,"body":"who were prepared to pay to starting to"},{"startTime":416.744,"endTime":420.481,"body":"tell other people's stories?"},{"startTime":421.742,"endTime":425.675,"body":"I used to always do it. when I started"},{"startTime":421.742,"endTime":425.675,"body":"doing photography,"},{"startTime":425.675,"endTime":428.848,"body":"I realized that it is... And I think I say"},{"startTime":425.675,"endTime":428.848,"body":"it very often,"},{"startTime":428.848,"endTime":431.869,"body":"it was like having... Being in a torrid"},{"startTime":428.848,"endTime":431.869,"body":"love affair."},{"startTime":431.869,"endTime":435.643,"body":"You know? I was just obsessed with the"},{"startTime":431.869,"endTime":435.643,"body":"camera at that time and I just wanted"},{"startTime":435.643,"endTime":438.536,"body":"to take photographs and I wouldn't get..."},{"startTime":438.536,"endTime":442.038,"body":"~ You know, the... I had this vision."},{"startTime":442.038,"endTime":444.881,"body":"I had all of these crazy visions and ideas"},{"startTime":442.038,"endTime":444.881,"body":"of how..."},{"startTime":445.344,"endTime":446.935,"body":"the perfect image needs to be."},{"startTime":446.935,"endTime":449.957,"body":"And when you're doing your client and"},{"startTime":446.935,"endTime":449.957,"body":"family photo shoots,"},{"startTime":449.957,"endTime":454.659,"body":"~ you're doing it for them. You're doing"},{"startTime":449.957,"endTime":454.659,"body":"it for the perfect image"},{"startTime":454.719,"endTime":458.661,"body":"on their living room wall. You're not"},{"startTime":454.719,"endTime":458.661,"body":"doing it for yourself."},{"startTime":458.661,"endTime":461.933,"body":"So very, very quickly I realized that the"},{"startTime":458.661,"endTime":461.933,"body":"images and visions that I'm getting"},{"startTime":461.933,"endTime":465.335,"body":"in my head, I need to jot them down on a"},{"startTime":461.933,"endTime":465.335,"body":"piece of paper and start"},{"startTime":465.335,"endTime":466.786,"body":"to photograph them."},{"startTime":467.21,"endTime":471.901,"body":"So that became a way for me to start"},{"startTime":467.21,"endTime":471.901,"body":"creating my own personal projects."},{"startTime":471.901,"endTime":475.172,"body":"The very first personal project I created"},{"startTime":471.901,"endTime":475.172,"body":"was with my daughter and my"},{"startTime":475.392,"endTime":479.964,"body":"dog at that time. I would just look at"},{"startTime":475.392,"endTime":479.964,"body":"them playing in these really beautiful"},{"startTime":479.964,"endTime":482.834,"body":"moments, but every time I would pick up"},{"startTime":479.964,"endTime":482.834,"body":"the camera,"},{"startTime":482.834,"endTime":485.995,"body":"that moment would go away. So I would"},{"startTime":482.834,"endTime":485.995,"body":"start writing those moments down."},{"startTime":485.995,"endTime":490.466,"body":"And then the day I would get the perfect"},{"startTime":485.995,"endTime":490.466,"body":"light in that space where that moment"},{"startTime":490.466,"endTime":492.617,"body":"be reenacted, I would place them there and"},{"startTime":490.466,"endTime":492.617,"body":"start."},{"startTime":493.057,"endTime":496.637,"body":"photographing them. So from there on then"},{"startTime":493.057,"endTime":496.637,"body":"I started working on the projects that"},{"startTime":496.637,"endTime":499.137,"body":"I really wanted to, like working with"},{"startTime":496.637,"endTime":499.137,"body":"elderly couples,"},{"startTime":499.137,"endTime":502.137,"body":"working with great grandparents and great"},{"startTime":499.137,"endTime":502.137,"body":"grandchildren,"},{"startTime":502.137,"endTime":508.437,"body":"know entering narratives and spaces which"},{"startTime":502.137,"endTime":508.437,"body":"are sitting right in front"},{"startTime":508.437,"endTime":512.736,"body":"of you are truly endearing but are rarely"},{"startTime":508.437,"endTime":512.736,"body":"captured, you know how often"},{"startTime":512.736,"endTime":517.677,"body":"do you capture a 90 year old great"},{"startTime":512.736,"endTime":517.677,"body":"grandmother with a 9-day old newborn baby"},{"startTime":517.677,"endTime":519.256,"body":"who does that? So I started"},{"startTime":519.903,"endTime":522.953,"body":"I started focusing on those moments that"},{"startTime":519.903,"endTime":522.953,"body":"really spoke to me."},{"startTime":524.372,"endTime":528.297,"body":"I think it's true to say when you start"},{"startTime":524.372,"endTime":528.297,"body":"thinking about the people around you,"},{"startTime":528.297,"endTime":531.442,"body":"everybody's got some sort of story,"},{"startTime":531.442,"endTime":534.005,"body":"something's a little bit different about"},{"startTime":531.442,"endTime":534.005,"body":"them that becomes"},{"startTime":534.005,"endTime":536.008,"body":"an interesting opportunity for a project."},{"startTime":536.513,"endTime":540.153,"body":"So well said, Angela. I wouldn't be able"},{"startTime":536.513,"endTime":540.153,"body":"to put it any better way."},{"startTime":541.416,"endTime":543.489,"body":"So your project, A Thousand Cuts,"},{"startTime":543.489,"endTime":548.104,"body":"that won the Creative category in the 2024"},{"startTime":543.489,"endTime":548.104,"body":"Sony World Photography Awards."},{"startTime":548.104,"endTime":551.809,"body":"And it's a very powerful piece of work or"},{"startTime":548.104,"endTime":551.809,"body":"body of work."},{"startTime":551.809,"endTime":553.792,"body":"What inspired you to start that?"},{"startTime":555.883,"endTime":560.136,"body":"So, ~ like I said, for a good decade or"},{"startTime":555.883,"endTime":560.136,"body":"so,"},{"startTime":560.136,"endTime":563.228,"body":"I focused entirely on child and family"},{"startTime":560.136,"endTime":563.228,"body":"photography."},{"startTime":563.228,"endTime":568.002,"body":"My projects were also very focused on this"},{"startTime":563.228,"endTime":568.002,"body":"utopian ~ childhood world."},{"startTime":568.002,"endTime":570.924,"body":"And in a way, when I look back at that"},{"startTime":568.002,"endTime":570.924,"body":"world,"},{"startTime":570.924,"endTime":576.878,"body":"~ at those images, I do realize I was"},{"startTime":570.924,"endTime":576.878,"body":"trying to sort of wipe"},{"startTime":576.878,"endTime":582.472,"body":"out my own ~ childhood experiences and"},{"startTime":576.878,"endTime":582.472,"body":"create this perfect universe that perhaps"},{"startTime":582.472,"endTime":583.472,"body":"does not really exist."},{"startTime":583.766,"endTime":587.888,"body":"But through hiding my own reality behind"},{"startTime":583.766,"endTime":587.888,"body":"that perfect universe,"},{"startTime":587.888,"endTime":591.97,"body":"I felt ~ a momentary sense of peace."},{"startTime":591.97,"endTime":595.912,"body":"~ so in every step,"},{"startTime":595.912,"endTime":599.344,"body":"every work that I did, I was always"},{"startTime":595.912,"endTime":599.344,"body":"looking back at my own life"},{"startTime":599.344,"endTime":603.296,"body":"and my own experiences and how I want to"},{"startTime":599.344,"endTime":603.296,"body":"translate them in my own visual language."},{"startTime":603.296,"endTime":608.689,"body":"~ In 2019, like I said, I lost my mother"},{"startTime":603.296,"endTime":608.689,"body":"and she was literally the fulcrum"},{"startTime":608.689,"endTime":612.041,"body":"of my life. She was the only good thing"},{"startTime":608.689,"endTime":612.041,"body":"about my childhood."},{"startTime":612.371,"endTime":614.883,"body":"And losing her made me stop for a while,"},{"startTime":614.883,"endTime":617.584,"body":"completely lose my visual language."},{"startTime":617.584,"endTime":619.566,"body":"I went silent for an entire year."},{"startTime":619.566,"endTime":621.237,"body":"I did not know what I wanted to do with"},{"startTime":619.566,"endTime":621.237,"body":"the camera."},{"startTime":621.237,"endTime":625.709,"body":"I felt angry towards it. I felt like the"},{"startTime":621.237,"endTime":625.709,"body":"world that I was continuously trying"},{"startTime":625.709,"endTime":629.212,"body":"to create and manifest ~ was just snatched"},{"startTime":625.709,"endTime":629.212,"body":"from me."},{"startTime":629.212,"endTime":634.545,"body":"And after a year is when I picked it back"},{"startTime":629.212,"endTime":634.545,"body":"again and I realized that I need"},{"startTime":634.545,"endTime":637.557,"body":"to focus truly on the pain that is sitting"},{"startTime":634.545,"endTime":637.557,"body":"with me."},{"startTime":638.237,"endTime":642.38,"body":"And that's when I started working first on"},{"startTime":638.237,"endTime":642.38,"body":"the project called"},{"startTime":642.38,"endTime":647.414,"body":"~ Changing the Conversation, in which I"},{"startTime":642.38,"endTime":647.414,"body":"was working with people with visible"},{"startTime":647.414,"endTime":652.017,"body":"and invisible differences. So literally"},{"startTime":647.414,"endTime":652.017,"body":"trying"},{"startTime":652.017,"endTime":656.881,"body":"to ~ bring into ~ artistic domain a"},{"startTime":652.017,"endTime":656.881,"body":"conversation around"},{"startTime":656.881,"endTime":662.795,"body":"the binaries of beauty, that there is"},{"startTime":656.881,"endTime":662.795,"body":"something more than just beautiful or"},{"startTime":662.795,"endTime":664.757,"body":"girl or boy, good or bad."},{"startTime":665.665,"endTime":668.568,"body":"there are so many nuances to humanity and"},{"startTime":665.665,"endTime":668.568,"body":"beauty in itself."},{"startTime":668.568,"endTime":672.851,"body":"So that I did by working alongside people"},{"startTime":668.568,"endTime":672.851,"body":"who were perhaps burn survivors,"},{"startTime":672.851,"endTime":675.894,"body":"amputees, limb different, with rare"},{"startTime":672.851,"endTime":675.894,"body":"medical conditions."},{"startTime":675.894,"endTime":679.417,"body":"And following that is when I started"},{"startTime":675.894,"endTime":679.417,"body":"feeling that I could go deeper into"},{"startTime":679.417,"endTime":685.792,"body":"my pain ~ and address something that has"},{"startTime":679.417,"endTime":685.792,"body":"been sitting with me historically,"},{"startTime":685.792,"endTime":688.704,"body":"that is domestic abuse. And that's when I"},{"startTime":685.792,"endTime":688.704,"body":"started working with survivors"},{"startTime":688.704,"endTime":689.704,"body":"of domestic abuse."},{"startTime":690.91,"endTime":696.146,"body":"Did you find that a painful process at"},{"startTime":690.91,"endTime":696.146,"body":"times or was it entirely cathartic?"},{"startTime":696.893,"endTime":699.154,"body":"It was in the beginning, it was many"},{"startTime":696.893,"endTime":699.154,"body":"feelings,"},{"startTime":699.154,"endTime":702.386,"body":"~ Angela. It's so difficult to actually"},{"startTime":699.154,"endTime":702.386,"body":"define that feeling and"},{"startTime":699.603,"endTime":700.603,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":702.386,"endTime":706.328,"body":"I'm still continuing to have ~ those"},{"startTime":702.386,"endTime":706.328,"body":"feelings resurface over and over again"},{"startTime":706.328,"endTime":707.778,"body":"as I continue to make this work."},{"startTime":707.778,"endTime":710.239,"body":"~ Right in the beginning there was a lot"},{"startTime":707.778,"endTime":710.239,"body":"of fear."},{"startTime":710.239,"endTime":713.261,"body":"Again, it was almost like having a newborn"},{"startTime":710.239,"endTime":713.261,"body":"daughter and not knowing what"},{"startTime":713.261,"endTime":715.622,"body":"to do with her. ~ It was literally that."},{"startTime":715.622,"endTime":719.444,"body":"I had this project in my mind but I did"},{"startTime":715.622,"endTime":719.444,"body":"not know how to produce it."},{"startTime":719.986,"endTime":722.898,"body":"It was a very big and surmountable"},{"startTime":719.986,"endTime":722.898,"body":"responsibility."},{"startTime":722.898,"endTime":725.199,"body":"I knew I'm not only taking my own story,"},{"startTime":725.199,"endTime":727.6,"body":"I'm also taking stories from some other"},{"startTime":725.199,"endTime":727.6,"body":"survivors."},{"startTime":727.6,"endTime":731.943,"body":"So, you know, just that responsibility of"},{"startTime":727.6,"endTime":731.943,"body":"honoring their lived experiences"},{"startTime":732.143,"endTime":734.704,"body":"in a way that is true to them and not"},{"startTime":732.143,"endTime":734.704,"body":"sensationalized."},{"startTime":734.704,"endTime":737.175,"body":"~ Something that I had never done before."},{"startTime":737.175,"endTime":738.466,"body":"I was a portrait photographer."},{"startTime":738.466,"endTime":741.328,"body":"I was very ~ into editing the images,"},{"startTime":741.328,"endTime":745.89,"body":"know. Aesthetization of the physical"},{"startTime":741.328,"endTime":745.89,"body":"landscape of the image was very,"},{"startTime":745.89,"endTime":749.012,"body":"very ~ integral to my visual language."},{"startTime":749.288,"endTime":753.502,"body":"And here I was met with the survivors who"},{"startTime":749.288,"endTime":753.502,"body":"told me they don't want their faces"},{"startTime":753.502,"endTime":757.355,"body":"to be shown. Also the work was moving into"},{"startTime":753.502,"endTime":757.355,"body":"more research-based work."},{"startTime":757.355,"endTime":758.728,"body":"I was sitting with the survivors,"},{"startTime":758.728,"endTime":761.14,"body":"interviewing them over and over and over"},{"startTime":758.728,"endTime":761.14,"body":"again."},{"startTime":761.14,"endTime":766.085,"body":"So just creating a whole research on"},{"startTime":761.14,"endTime":766.085,"body":"stories that have never come out in the"},{"startTime":766.085,"endTime":769.098,"body":"These were women who were speaking about"},{"startTime":766.085,"endTime":769.098,"body":"their trauma for the very first time."},{"startTime":769.098,"endTime":771.991,"body":"So I went through a lot. I went through"},{"startTime":769.098,"endTime":771.991,"body":"many,"},{"startTime":771.991,"endTime":772.991,"body":"many feelings."},{"startTime":773.132,"endTime":777.175,"body":"There came somewhere in the middle of"},{"startTime":773.132,"endTime":777.175,"body":"working on this project,"},{"startTime":777.175,"endTime":780.038,"body":"think, towards the end of the first year"},{"startTime":777.175,"endTime":780.038,"body":"is when I started feeling"},{"startTime":780.038,"endTime":783.961,"body":"a sense of freedom. A freedom from my own"},{"startTime":780.038,"endTime":783.961,"body":"lack of boundaries."},{"startTime":783.961,"endTime":787.984,"body":"know, the very first time at that,"},{"startTime":787.984,"endTime":791.147,"body":"I was 41 when I started working on this,"},{"startTime":791.147,"endTime":793.028,"body":"or 40 when I started working on this"},{"startTime":791.147,"endTime":793.028,"body":"project."},{"startTime":793.028,"endTime":797.512,"body":"And that was the very first time I started"},{"startTime":793.028,"endTime":797.512,"body":"drawing boundaries around me that,"},{"startTime":797.512,"endTime":801.726,"body":"you know, this is what belongs into my"},{"startTime":797.512,"endTime":801.726,"body":"space and this does not belong into my"},{"startTime":801.726,"endTime":802.726,"body":"And that is..."},{"startTime":802.708,"endTime":804.509,"body":"a knowledge that I have gained through"},{"startTime":802.708,"endTime":804.509,"body":"this project."},{"startTime":804.509,"endTime":809.586,"body":"So this project has ~ taught me a lot and"},{"startTime":804.509,"endTime":809.586,"body":"definitely has been truly cathartic."},{"startTime":811.22,"endTime":814.279,"body":"At what point did you start actually"},{"startTime":811.22,"endTime":814.279,"body":"making cuts into your prints?"},{"startTime":815.265,"endTime":819.007,"body":"~ So this work was born through several"},{"startTime":815.265,"endTime":819.007,"body":"iterations."},{"startTime":819.007,"endTime":820.978,"body":"~ In the very first iteration,"},{"startTime":820.978,"endTime":824.29,"body":"I just was looking at my own personal"},{"startTime":820.978,"endTime":824.29,"body":"story,"},{"startTime":824.29,"endTime":827.511,"body":"literally. even when I had only"},{"startTime":824.29,"endTime":827.511,"body":"interviewed at that stage,"},{"startTime":827.511,"endTime":832.934,"body":"I think around 20 survivors, and I was"},{"startTime":827.511,"endTime":832.934,"body":"just"},{"startTime":833.074,"endTime":837.296,"body":"so focused on my own story, that I was"},{"startTime":833.074,"endTime":837.296,"body":"literally not listening to what they were"},{"startTime":837.296,"endTime":838.517,"body":"telling me about their own thing."},{"startTime":839.273,"endTime":845.805,"body":"And so I ~ started working with sketches"},{"startTime":839.273,"endTime":845.805,"body":"of how my personal life"},{"startTime":845.805,"endTime":849.376,"body":"was like, and I started drawing storyboard"},{"startTime":845.805,"endTime":849.376,"body":"shots."},{"startTime":849.376,"endTime":853.397,"body":"And I decided I'm going to stage this"},{"startTime":849.376,"endTime":853.397,"body":"entire thing."},{"startTime":853.397,"endTime":858.708,"body":"And every image will be a staged"},{"startTime":853.397,"endTime":858.708,"body":"representation of how a woman's life"},{"startTime":858.708,"endTime":861.839,"body":"is when domestic abuse unravels."},{"startTime":861.839,"endTime":866.921,"body":"~ And then I sat with it for a good six"},{"startTime":861.839,"endTime":866.921,"body":"months,"},{"startTime":866.921,"endTime":868.381,"body":"and I realized this was..."},{"startTime":868.959,"endTime":872.15,"body":"not a true representation of domestic"},{"startTime":868.959,"endTime":872.15,"body":"abuse and certainly not one"},{"startTime":872.31,"endTime":873.771,"body":"of the unique lived experiences."},{"startTime":873.771,"endTime":877.452,"body":"Then there came another iteration that"},{"startTime":873.771,"endTime":877.452,"body":"again I sat with for a couple"},{"startTime":877.452,"endTime":879.873,"body":"of months and realized I wasn't still"},{"startTime":877.452,"endTime":879.873,"body":"doing justice."},{"startTime":879.873,"endTime":884.835,"body":"And then finally is when I went back and"},{"startTime":879.873,"endTime":884.835,"body":"listened to those interviews"},{"startTime":884.996,"endTime":891.608,"body":"all over again and I realized that Each"},{"startTime":884.996,"endTime":891.608,"body":"survivor told me I feel completely torn"},{"startTime":891.608,"endTime":896.44,"body":"within. My experiences have not left me a"},{"startTime":891.608,"endTime":896.44,"body":"complete person anymore."},{"startTime":896.44,"endTime":898.141,"body":"And that one..."},{"startTime":899.101,"endTime":904.547,"body":"central statement that ran through every"},{"startTime":899.101,"endTime":904.547,"body":"interview became also"},{"startTime":904.767,"endTime":909.793,"body":"the central ritual that was presented on"},{"startTime":904.767,"endTime":909.793,"body":"top of the image."},{"startTime":909.793,"endTime":913.977,"body":"So I just realized that if her soul is"},{"startTime":909.793,"endTime":913.977,"body":"injured and if she doesn't feel complete,"},{"startTime":913.977,"endTime":916.981,"body":"then the surface of the print cannot be"},{"startTime":913.977,"endTime":916.981,"body":"complete either."},{"startTime":917.89,"endTime":921.292,"body":"Yeah. When I first saw your work,"},{"startTime":921.292,"endTime":925.055,"body":"it was at the Sony World Photography"},{"startTime":921.292,"endTime":925.055,"body":"Awards exhibition and you walked into that"},{"startTime":925.055,"endTime":929.938,"body":"space and there was a huge print and it"},{"startTime":925.055,"endTime":929.938,"body":"was equally beautiful"},{"startTime":929.938,"endTime":931.819,"body":"and shocking because it was, you know,"},{"startTime":931.819,"endTime":933.97,"body":"apparent that something, there was a"},{"startTime":931.819,"endTime":933.97,"body":"message there,"},{"startTime":933.97,"endTime":938.854,"body":"there was a story, ~ but it was just so"},{"startTime":933.97,"endTime":938.854,"body":"beautifully done and you couldn't help"},{"startTime":938.854,"endTime":941.986,"body":"but be struck by it and be interested."},{"startTime":941.986,"endTime":944.907,"body":"I think you were just standing to one"},{"startTime":941.986,"endTime":944.907,"body":"side."},{"startTime":944.907,"endTime":946.368,"body":"So we had a bit of a conversation."},{"startTime":947.413,"endTime":950.548,"body":"I think that really had impact and"},{"startTime":947.413,"endTime":950.548,"body":"obviously you won that category which"},{"startTime":950.548,"endTime":955.526,"body":"is absolutely fantastic. Have you found"},{"startTime":950.548,"endTime":955.526,"body":"since having that exhibition"},{"startTime":955.526,"endTime":959.723,"body":"and maybe others that people have been"},{"startTime":955.526,"endTime":959.723,"body":"more willing to be your subjects?"},{"startTime":963.322,"endTime":967.105,"body":"No. Unfortunately not."},{"startTime":967.105,"endTime":972.309,"body":"~ It is a very sensitive theme and also,"},{"startTime":967.266,"endTime":969.673,"body":"No, it's still a very sensitive area."},{"startTime":972.309,"endTime":975.652,"body":"one, nobody has openly reached out to me"},{"startTime":972.309,"endTime":975.652,"body":"saying that they would want"},{"startTime":975.652,"endTime":979.275,"body":"to be photographed. ~ But at the same"},{"startTime":975.652,"endTime":979.275,"body":"time,"},{"startTime":977.024,"endTime":978.024,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":979.275,"endTime":984.219,"body":"~ which means that people still don't feel"},{"startTime":979.275,"endTime":984.219,"body":"comfortable in reaching out."},{"startTime":984.219,"endTime":986.431,"body":"~ And that is something that's expected."},{"startTime":986.431,"endTime":991.595,"body":"It's a theme, subject shouted in complete"},{"startTime":986.431,"endTime":991.595,"body":"silence."},{"startTime":991.949,"endTime":995.629,"body":"But at the same time, I also feel that"},{"startTime":991.949,"endTime":995.629,"body":"when you are working on these narratives,"},{"startTime":995.629,"endTime":1001.009,"body":"it is only safer to work alongside"},{"startTime":995.629,"endTime":1001.009,"body":"organizations that are trained"},{"startTime":1001.009,"endTime":1006.629,"body":"to take care of these themes and the"},{"startTime":1001.009,"endTime":1006.629,"body":"people who are involved with it."},{"startTime":1006.629,"endTime":1009.149,"body":"So if I go directly to somebody who is a"},{"startTime":1006.629,"endTime":1009.149,"body":"survivor,"},{"startTime":1009.149,"endTime":1014.889,"body":"because I am not a trained social worker"},{"startTime":1009.149,"endTime":1014.889,"body":"or"},{"startTime":1014.889,"endTime":1019.249,"body":"a carer or I am not legally trained or am"},{"startTime":1014.889,"endTime":1019.249,"body":"not psychologically trained,"},{"startTime":1019.249,"endTime":1020.649,"body":"I might leave their wounds."},{"startTime":1021.067,"endTime":1022.986,"body":"bleeding at the end of it, which is not"},{"startTime":1021.067,"endTime":1022.986,"body":"fair."},{"startTime":1022.955,"endTime":1023.955,"body":"Mm-hmm,"},{"startTime":1023.707,"endTime":1027.817,"body":"no, no, that's a good point. Was it the"},{"startTime":1023.707,"endTime":1027.817,"body":"first time you'd entered the competition?"},{"startTime":1030.125,"endTime":1033.788,"body":"Let me think. I think Sony was the very"},{"startTime":1030.125,"endTime":1033.788,"body":"first one because until then"},{"startTime":1033.788,"endTime":1037.742,"body":"I was only showing this work in small"},{"startTime":1033.788,"endTime":1037.742,"body":"groups and walking with the little"},{"startTime":1037.742,"endTime":1042.496,"body":"box that I had made with all of my"},{"startTime":1037.742,"endTime":1042.496,"body":"artworks to different people,"},{"startTime":1042.496,"endTime":1046.669,"body":"gatekeepers in the industry. was literally"},{"startTime":1042.496,"endTime":1046.669,"body":"knocking on doors and showing the work."},{"startTime":1046.669,"endTime":1048.501,"body":"So yeah, I think Sony was the very first"},{"startTime":1046.669,"endTime":1048.501,"body":"one that I"},{"startTime":1049.825,"endTime":1052.689,"body":"So was it a pleasant surprise,"},{"startTime":1052.689,"endTime":1055.873,"body":"a shock to you when you walked into that"},{"startTime":1052.689,"endTime":1055.873,"body":"exhibition at Somerset House"},{"startTime":1056.274,"endTime":1058.347,"body":"and saw just how big that print was?"},{"startTime":1059.229,"endTime":1061.871,"body":"More than that, just receiving the call"},{"startTime":1059.229,"endTime":1061.871,"body":"from Sony,"},{"startTime":1061.871,"endTime":1065.884,"body":"I was stumped. So there was a call that"},{"startTime":1061.871,"endTime":1065.884,"body":"came and I didn't pick up"},{"startTime":1063.996,"endTime":1064.996,"body":"huh."},{"startTime":1065.884,"endTime":1067.896,"body":"the phone call because you know those"},{"startTime":1065.884,"endTime":1067.896,"body":"numbers,"},{"startTime":1067.896,"endTime":1071.218,"body":"if a strange number is calling,"},{"startTime":1068.49,"endTime":1069.49,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1071.218,"endTime":1074.691,"body":"you don't pick up the phone. And then I"},{"startTime":1071.218,"endTime":1074.691,"body":"received a message saying Sony Photography"},{"startTime":1074.691,"endTime":1077.203,"body":"Team and I was like, why are they"},{"startTime":1074.691,"endTime":1077.203,"body":"messaging me?"},{"startTime":1077.203,"endTime":1080.285,"body":"And yeah, the print was massive."},{"startTime":1078.542,"endTime":1079.542,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1080.285,"endTime":1082.057,"body":"Yeah, the print was beautiful."},{"startTime":1082.057,"endTime":1086.14,"body":"And just the thought that Somerset House"},{"startTime":1082.057,"endTime":1086.14,"body":"is hosting that work,"},{"startTime":1086.14,"endTime":1088.732,"body":"know, these narratives are getting placed"},{"startTime":1086.14,"endTime":1088.732,"body":"in."},{"startTime":1087.073,"endTime":1088.073,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1089.196,"endTime":1093.939,"body":"~ institutionalized spaces, ~ I think it"},{"startTime":1089.196,"endTime":1093.939,"body":"holds meaning."},{"startTime":1095.361,"endTime":1098.325,"body":"How did you make your image selection or"},{"startTime":1095.361,"endTime":1098.325,"body":"was it immediately obvious"},{"startTime":1098.325,"endTime":1099.571,"body":"to you which should go in?"},{"startTime":1100.394,"endTime":1102.526,"body":"At that time, I only had 10 artworks,"},{"startTime":1102.526,"endTime":1104.367,"body":"so I submitted all 10 of them."},{"startTime":1104.367,"endTime":1108.941,"body":"~ Now, sometimes I am faced with the"},{"startTime":1104.367,"endTime":1108.941,"body":"challenge of,"},{"startTime":1108.941,"endTime":1112.124,"body":"know, somewhere, there are some places"},{"startTime":1108.941,"endTime":1112.124,"body":"where you're only allowed to enter four"},{"startTime":1112.124,"endTime":1115.897,"body":"or five images, but it is now getting very"},{"startTime":1112.124,"endTime":1115.897,"body":"clear to me what are the images that"},{"startTime":1115.897,"endTime":1119.58,"body":"~ hold most space in the public domain."},{"startTime":1119.58,"endTime":1123.433,"body":"~ Unfortunately, those are the ones I need"},{"startTime":1119.58,"endTime":1123.433,"body":"to push forward because ultimately,"},{"startTime":1123.433,"endTime":1125.024,"body":"to bring the larger story forward,"},{"startTime":1125.024,"endTime":1129.288,"body":"you need to go with ~ which images are"},{"startTime":1125.024,"endTime":1129.288,"body":"creating a visual impact."},{"startTime":1129.6,"endTime":1132.755,"body":"That's just the unfortunate nature of how"},{"startTime":1129.6,"endTime":1132.755,"body":"things work."},{"startTime":1129.899,"endTime":1132.192,"body":"Yep. Yeah."},{"startTime":1133.895,"endTime":1138.361,"body":"Do you still do other portraiture work now"},{"startTime":1133.895,"endTime":1138.361,"body":"or are you fully committed to"},{"startTime":1138.361,"endTime":1141.485,"body":"the kind of the commentary work that"},{"startTime":1138.361,"endTime":1141.485,"body":"you're doing,"},{"startTime":1141.485,"endTime":1143.839,"body":"the project-based work?"},{"startTime":1144.428,"endTime":1148.75,"body":"At my core, Angela, I am now very focused"},{"startTime":1144.428,"endTime":1148.75,"body":"on gender-based abuse."},{"startTime":1148.75,"endTime":1151.471,"body":"I am very focused on actually gendered"},{"startTime":1148.75,"endTime":1151.471,"body":"narratives."},{"startTime":1149.345,"endTime":1150.345,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1151.471,"endTime":1157.094,"body":"So ~ I try to ~ find commissions around"},{"startTime":1151.471,"endTime":1157.094,"body":"that."},{"startTime":1157.094,"endTime":1159.975,"body":"But also it has worked the other way"},{"startTime":1157.094,"endTime":1159.975,"body":"around."},{"startTime":1159.975,"endTime":1164.017,"body":"My client base has just started to believe"},{"startTime":1159.975,"endTime":1164.017,"body":"that I do not take those kind"},{"startTime":1164.017,"endTime":1167.078,"body":"of portrait works. So it's just sort of"},{"startTime":1164.017,"endTime":1167.078,"body":"worked in a way where I'm"},{"startTime":1166.612,"endTime":1167.612,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1167.078,"endTime":1169.239,"body":"not even getting that work and I'm not"},{"startTime":1167.078,"endTime":1169.239,"body":"pushing for it."},{"startTime":1169.239,"endTime":1170.32,"body":"But when it comes, I take it."},{"startTime":1171.232,"endTime":1176.348,"body":"Yes, okay. Good."},{"startTime":1172.374,"endTime":1174.28,"body":"I have not lost the skill, the skill is"},{"startTime":1172.374,"endTime":1174.28,"body":"still there."},{"startTime":1176.348,"endTime":1178.967,"body":"So how do you, are you still able to,"},{"startTime":1178.967,"endTime":1182.055,"body":"if you don't mind me asking, make a living"},{"startTime":1178.967,"endTime":1182.055,"body":"through photography,"},{"startTime":1182.055,"endTime":1183.197,"body":"through the work that you're doing?"},{"startTime":1183.455,"endTime":1185.706,"body":"I'm going to be very honest, it's not very"},{"startTime":1183.455,"endTime":1185.706,"body":"easy."},{"startTime":1185.706,"endTime":1187.697,"body":"When you start working in this domain,"},{"startTime":1186.241,"endTime":1187.241,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1187.697,"endTime":1190.149,"body":"you need to make sure that you're putting"},{"startTime":1187.697,"endTime":1190.149,"body":"your eggs in several,"},{"startTime":1190.149,"endTime":1194.821,"body":"several baskets. You cannot be just"},{"startTime":1190.149,"endTime":1194.821,"body":"pushing for one kind of work"},{"startTime":1194.821,"endTime":1196.692,"body":"and hope that that's going to satisfy."},{"startTime":1196.692,"endTime":1201.355,"body":"~ So, award money is definitely a very big"},{"startTime":1196.692,"endTime":1201.355,"body":"place for me to"},{"startTime":1201.355,"endTime":1205.237,"body":"~ gain ~ constant living from."},{"startTime":1205.237,"endTime":1209.9,"body":"~ Then there are, I get a lot of"},{"startTime":1205.237,"endTime":1209.9,"body":"university talk opportunities."},{"startTime":1210.284,"endTime":1213.966,"body":"~ I get other industry talk opportunities"},{"startTime":1210.284,"endTime":1213.966,"body":"as well."},{"startTime":1213.966,"endTime":1219.728,"body":"I get commissions from organizations that"},{"startTime":1213.966,"endTime":1219.728,"body":"are allied with my field."},{"startTime":1219.728,"endTime":1224.991,"body":"Besides that, I have started selling"},{"startTime":1219.728,"endTime":1224.991,"body":"prints of this work."},{"startTime":1224.991,"endTime":1230.893,"body":"~ One of the artworks is in the process of"},{"startTime":1224.991,"endTime":1230.893,"body":"getting acquired."},{"startTime":1230.893,"endTime":1234.575,"body":"So acquisitions. I get writing"},{"startTime":1230.893,"endTime":1234.575,"body":"opportunities."},{"startTime":1234.575,"endTime":1236.476,"body":"I've started getting opportunities to..."},{"startTime":1237.036,"endTime":1242.052,"body":"~ write in academic papers and other books"},{"startTime":1237.036,"endTime":1242.052,"body":"contribute to other books."},{"startTime":1242.052,"endTime":1246.208,"body":"So there are a lot of different pots from"},{"startTime":1242.052,"endTime":1246.208,"body":"which money has started to flow in."},{"startTime":1247.265,"endTime":1248.265,"body":"good."},{"startTime":1247.808,"endTime":1249.531,"body":"Obviously, there's been lots and lots of"},{"startTime":1247.808,"endTime":1249.531,"body":"hard work,"},{"startTime":1249.531,"endTime":1253.708,"body":"but do you think entering that competition"},{"startTime":1249.531,"endTime":1253.708,"body":"and winning that category"},{"startTime":1253.708,"endTime":1255.091,"body":"has really been a catalyst for you?"},{"startTime":1255.091,"endTime":1256.914,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1255.191,"endTime":1257.345,"body":"Definitely. ~ my god, the recognition"},{"startTime":1257.345,"endTime":1262.755,"body":"from Sony has really brought about a"},{"startTime":1257.345,"endTime":1262.755,"body":"massive change to ~ the journey of this"},{"startTime":1262.755,"endTime":1266.792,"body":"in itself. ~ Otherwise, it was just"},{"startTime":1262.755,"endTime":1266.792,"body":"sitting in the periphery somewhere"},{"startTime":1266.792,"endTime":1268.075,"body":"and nobody was paying attention."},{"startTime":1268.802,"endTime":1273.107,"body":"Yeah. If you could go back and give your"},{"startTime":1268.802,"endTime":1273.107,"body":"younger self some advice,"},{"startTime":1273.107,"endTime":1274.85,"body":"what would you say?"},{"startTime":1275.379,"endTime":1280.794,"body":"gosh, that's a tough one. I wish I had"},{"startTime":1275.379,"endTime":1280.794,"body":"started working on this theme at a much,"},{"startTime":1280.794,"endTime":1282.856,"body":"much earlier age. I feel like..."},{"startTime":1282.189,"endTime":1283.189,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1282.856,"endTime":1289.562,"body":"~ I just recently had an exhibition in"},{"startTime":1282.856,"endTime":1289.562,"body":"York and I was sitting with some"},{"startTime":1289.602,"endTime":1295.818,"body":"really wonderful female artists ~ and we"},{"startTime":1289.602,"endTime":1295.818,"body":"just started talking about"},{"startTime":1295.818,"endTime":1300.492,"body":"the God Complex and they asked me what my"},{"startTime":1295.818,"endTime":1300.492,"body":"thoughts on the God Complex is"},{"startTime":1300.492,"endTime":1301.623,"body":"and I said all of us have it."},{"startTime":1301.946,"endTime":1304.447,"body":"I said, I as an artist believe that with"},{"startTime":1301.946,"endTime":1304.447,"body":"my work I am going"},{"startTime":1304.447,"endTime":1307.438,"body":"to transform the landscape of gender-based"},{"startTime":1304.447,"endTime":1307.438,"body":"violence and it will end by the"},{"startTime":1307.438,"endTime":1309.689,"body":"end of my next series in the world."},{"startTime":1309.689,"endTime":1313.931,"body":"So I said, each one of us have got complex"},{"startTime":1309.689,"endTime":1313.931,"body":"but to be honest,"},{"startTime":1313.931,"endTime":1317.911,"body":"artists are just idealists. We believe"},{"startTime":1313.931,"endTime":1317.911,"body":"that we can change the world with whatever"},{"startTime":1317.911,"endTime":1322.054,"body":"we are trying to say and I ~ held that"},{"startTime":1317.911,"endTime":1322.054,"body":"idealism very,"},{"startTime":1322.054,"endTime":1325.535,"body":"very deeply when I was young. I just wish"},{"startTime":1322.054,"endTime":1325.535,"body":"I had the momentum at that"},{"startTime":1325.535,"endTime":1329.296,"body":"age to start this work. Maybe I could have"},{"startTime":1325.535,"endTime":1329.296,"body":"brought about a little,"},{"startTime":1329.296,"endTime":1330.437,"body":"little, little change."},{"startTime":1330.839,"endTime":1332.404,"body":"which now I can just hope for,"},{"startTime":1332.404,"endTime":1333.404,"body":"you know?"},{"startTime":1333.1,"endTime":1335.591,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's coming."},{"startTime":1335.591,"endTime":1337.612,"body":"think, you know, like you say,"},{"startTime":1337.612,"endTime":1339.433,"body":"it's about you have to build momentum,"},{"startTime":1339.433,"endTime":1341.994,"body":"don't you? And there's there's key points"},{"startTime":1339.433,"endTime":1341.994,"body":"that develop it and,"},{"startTime":1341.994,"endTime":1346.076,"body":"getting getting yourself started and then"},{"startTime":1341.994,"endTime":1346.076,"body":"entering competition,"},{"startTime":1346.076,"endTime":1348.747,"body":"getting success and attracting attention."},{"startTime":1348.747,"endTime":1351.538,"body":"It's it's all part of the building of"},{"startTime":1348.747,"endTime":1351.538,"body":"momentum,"},{"startTime":1351.538,"endTime":1352.538,"body":"isn't it?"},{"startTime":1352.131,"endTime":1353.131,"body":"Hopefully, yes."},{"startTime":1354.52,"endTime":1357.516,"body":"Okay, well I think it's a good time to go"},{"startTime":1354.52,"endTime":1357.516,"body":"to Six from SheClicks."},{"startTime":1357.516,"endTime":1361.935,"body":"I've got 10 questions from SheClickers and"},{"startTime":1357.516,"endTime":1361.935,"body":"I would like you to pick numbers from"},{"startTime":1361.935,"endTime":1364.85,"body":"one to ten and answer six questions"},{"startTime":1361.935,"endTime":1364.85,"body":"please."},{"startTime":1364.85,"endTime":1366.614,"body":"So could I have your first number?"},{"startTime":1368.501,"endTime":1370.208,"body":"~ Five."},{"startTime":1371.822,"endTime":1376.5,"body":"Okay. Have you ever experienced imposter"},{"startTime":1371.822,"endTime":1376.5,"body":"syndrome and how did you get through it?"},{"startTime":1376.5,"endTime":1378.006,"body":"That was asked by several people."},{"startTime":1379.401,"endTime":1382.886,"body":"All the time, my God. I get the"},{"startTime":1379.401,"endTime":1382.886,"body":"imposter's..."},{"startTime":1382.886,"endTime":1385.329,"body":"I am living with it. I am the embodiment"},{"startTime":1382.886,"endTime":1385.329,"body":"of it."},{"startTime":1385.329,"endTime":1389.114,"body":"How do I get over it? By just pushing my"},{"startTime":1385.329,"endTime":1389.114,"body":"work out there."},{"startTime":1386.019,"endTime":1387.019,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1389.114,"endTime":1395.262,"body":"~ By ~ just ~ telling myself every morning"},{"startTime":1389.114,"endTime":1395.262,"body":"that"},{"startTime":1395.823,"endTime":1397.495,"body":"my courage is more important than my fear."},{"startTime":1398.348,"endTime":1404.294,"body":"Yes. Do you think when you're working on a"},{"startTime":1398.348,"endTime":1404.294,"body":"cause essentially that helps"},{"startTime":1404.294,"endTime":1408.728,"body":"you because actually it's not about you"},{"startTime":1404.294,"endTime":1408.728,"body":"and how you feel it's about those other"},{"startTime":1408.728,"endTime":1410.54,"body":"people, those other women who need your"},{"startTime":1408.728,"endTime":1410.54,"body":"help?"},{"startTime":1410.785,"endTime":1416.718,"body":"Yes, absolutely. It makes me realize ~"},{"startTime":1410.785,"endTime":1416.718,"body":"that I need to put my ego aside,"},{"startTime":1416.718,"endTime":1418.241,"body":"that I have to become very selfless."},{"startTime":1418.241,"endTime":1419.745,"body":"This is not me, this is them."},{"startTime":1420.577,"endTime":1423.051,"body":"Okay, good. Can I have your second number,"},{"startTime":1423.051,"endTime":1424.051,"body":"please?"},{"startTime":1425.666,"endTime":1429.025,"body":"What is your proudest moment in connection"},{"startTime":1425.666,"endTime":1429.025,"body":"with your photography?"},{"startTime":1431.316,"endTime":1433.3,"body":"~ gosh, that's a tough one."},{"startTime":1439.05,"endTime":1440.255,"body":"It is yet to come, I think."},{"startTime":1442.636,"endTime":1444.558,"body":"That's a good ambition to have."},{"startTime":1444.558,"endTime":1449.122,"body":"mean, you must have been very proud to win"},{"startTime":1444.558,"endTime":1449.122,"body":"the category in the awards,"},{"startTime":1449.122,"endTime":1452.045,"body":"but I think you have to believe there's"},{"startTime":1449.122,"endTime":1452.045,"body":"more to come."},{"startTime":1452.045,"endTime":1456.589,"body":"So that's good. Okay. Can I have your"},{"startTime":1452.045,"endTime":1456.589,"body":"third number,"},{"startTime":1452.312,"endTime":1453.312,"body":"Two"},{"startTime":1456.589,"endTime":1457.589,"body":"please?"},{"startTime":1459.75,"endTime":1463.773,"body":"Your projects like Changing the"},{"startTime":1459.75,"endTime":1463.773,"body":"Conversation deal with very sensitive"},{"startTime":1463.773,"endTime":1468.166,"body":"themes. How do you build trust with your"},{"startTime":1463.773,"endTime":1468.166,"body":"subjects to capture such intimate"},{"startTime":1468.166,"endTime":1470.348,"body":"and vulnerable moments? That question's"},{"startTime":1468.166,"endTime":1470.348,"body":"from Caroline."},{"startTime":1471.288,"endTime":1473.149,"body":"Thank you so much Caroline for the"},{"startTime":1471.288,"endTime":1473.149,"body":"question."},{"startTime":1473.149,"endTime":1479.18,"body":"~ I enter the room with my own"},{"startTime":1473.149,"endTime":1479.18,"body":"vulnerabilities ~ and the important thing"},{"startTime":1479.18,"endTime":1482.111,"body":"is to remember where you positioned,"},{"startTime":1482.111,"endTime":1484.952,"body":"~ what you are allowed to ask,"},{"startTime":1484.952,"endTime":1488.033,"body":"how much can you ask without being"},{"startTime":1484.952,"endTime":1488.033,"body":"extractive."},{"startTime":1488.033,"endTime":1490.374,"body":"So that constant reflexivity is very,"},{"startTime":1490.374,"endTime":1493.945,"body":"very important. And also to belong in the"},{"startTime":1490.374,"endTime":1493.945,"body":"same space,"},{"startTime":1493.945,"endTime":1497.786,"body":"you have to bear yourself as honestly and"},{"startTime":1493.945,"endTime":1497.786,"body":"as equally as you expect"},{"startTime":1497.786,"endTime":1498.786,"body":"the other person to."},{"startTime":1500.152,"endTime":1506.238,"body":"Do you go into the conversations as a"},{"startTime":1500.152,"endTime":1506.238,"body":"photographer thinking or telling them that"},{"startTime":1506.238,"endTime":1509.891,"body":"at some point you want to take their"},{"startTime":1506.238,"endTime":1509.891,"body":"photograph or do you go in and just start"},{"startTime":1509.891,"endTime":1510.891,"body":"the conversation?"},{"startTime":1511.082,"endTime":1513.363,"body":"No, I always when I interact with them,"},{"startTime":1513.363,"endTime":1514.984,"body":"the very first time when I reach out to"},{"startTime":1513.363,"endTime":1514.984,"body":"them,"},{"startTime":1514.984,"endTime":1517.996,"body":"I inform them of what the basic premise of"},{"startTime":1514.984,"endTime":1517.996,"body":"the project is."},{"startTime":1517.996,"endTime":1520.258,"body":"But for example, in the case of A Thousand"},{"startTime":1517.996,"endTime":1520.258,"body":"Cuts,"},{"startTime":1520.258,"endTime":1523.79,"body":"I was very, very open with the survivors"},{"startTime":1520.258,"endTime":1523.79,"body":"and I told them that I don't know where"},{"startTime":1523.79,"endTime":1526.782,"body":"this work is going. I don't even know what"},{"startTime":1523.79,"endTime":1526.782,"body":"I'm going to come up with because"},{"startTime":1526.802,"endTime":1530.404,"body":"I have no idea. So I told them the only"},{"startTime":1526.802,"endTime":1530.404,"body":"thing we need here right now"},{"startTime":1530.404,"endTime":1533.886,"body":"is to sit together and create a space"},{"startTime":1530.404,"endTime":1533.886,"body":"where no one will judge the other"},{"startTime":1534.266,"endTime":1537.248,"body":"and no one will stop the other person from"},{"startTime":1534.266,"endTime":1537.248,"body":"talking."},{"startTime":1538.767,"endTime":1541.741,"body":"Okay, can I have your fourth number"},{"startTime":1538.767,"endTime":1541.741,"body":"please?"},{"startTime":1542.136,"endTime":1543.136,"body":"4."},{"startTime":1544.278,"endTime":1547.348,"body":"What's the most valuable piece of advice"},{"startTime":1544.278,"endTime":1547.348,"body":"you've received from someone"},{"startTime":1547.348,"endTime":1548.773,"body":"in connection with photography?"},{"startTime":1548.773,"endTime":1549.957,"body":"That question's from Liz."},{"startTime":1551.884,"endTime":1552.884,"body":"valuable piece"},{"startTime":1552.644,"endTime":1553.644,"body":"of advice."},{"startTime":1553.365,"endTime":1559.347,"body":"~ I think"},{"startTime":1559.628,"endTime":1563.849,"body":"I get ~ very good advice from people who"},{"startTime":1559.628,"endTime":1563.849,"body":"are very close to me in the industry"},{"startTime":1563.849,"endTime":1566.627,"body":"and I have very few very close friends in"},{"startTime":1563.849,"endTime":1566.627,"body":"the industry."},{"startTime":1566.627,"endTime":1570.452,"body":"There's a friend called Anu Gamanagari and"},{"startTime":1566.627,"endTime":1570.452,"body":"she's a really good friend"},{"startTime":1570.452,"endTime":1574.414,"body":"and she always tells me to be"},{"startTime":1574.414,"endTime":1578.636,"body":"~ less negative about things that are"},{"startTime":1574.414,"endTime":1578.636,"body":"going on."},{"startTime":1579.16,"endTime":1586.018,"body":"~ I tend to sometimes become very angry"},{"startTime":1579.16,"endTime":1586.018,"body":"very quickly ~ and the best advice I've"},{"startTime":1586.018,"endTime":1591.385,"body":"really got is to stay calm and stay on my"},{"startTime":1586.018,"endTime":1591.385,"body":"course and the doors will start"},{"startTime":1590.926,"endTime":1591.926,"body":"Good advice."},{"startTime":1591.385,"endTime":1592.385,"body":"to open here."},{"startTime":1592.528,"endTime":1595.442,"body":"Good advice, I think. Yeah, it's very easy"},{"startTime":1592.528,"endTime":1595.442,"body":"sometimes to have"},{"startTime":1595.442,"endTime":1600.338,"body":"a little downward spiral, but it's better"},{"startTime":1595.442,"endTime":1600.338,"body":"and often more helpful to focus"},{"startTime":1600.338,"endTime":1603.462,"body":"on the positive. Okay."},{"startTime":1601.954,"endTime":1602.954,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1603.462,"endTime":1605.906,"body":"Your fifth number then, please."},{"startTime":1606.444,"endTime":1607.444,"body":"Thanks."},{"startTime":1608.396,"endTime":1610.209,"body":"Your imagery often has a painterly,"},{"startTime":1610.209,"endTime":1611.351,"body":"ethereal quality."},{"startTime":1611.709,"endTime":1616.217,"body":"Is this look a conscious choice to soften"},{"startTime":1611.709,"endTime":1616.217,"body":"the blow of a difficult subject that"},{"startTime":1616.418,"endTime":1618.732,"body":"matters to you? That question's from"},{"startTime":1616.418,"endTime":1618.732,"body":"Caroline."},{"startTime":1619.255,"endTime":1622.597,"body":"Visual aesthetics are very very important"},{"startTime":1619.255,"endTime":1622.597,"body":"for such work,"},{"startTime":1622.597,"endTime":1625.619,"body":"know, and it's not appropriation of beauty"},{"startTime":1622.597,"endTime":1625.619,"body":"in that sense,"},{"startTime":1625.619,"endTime":1630.352,"body":"but it is just ~ borrowing from the visual"},{"startTime":1625.619,"endTime":1630.352,"body":"language that"},{"startTime":1630.352,"endTime":1636.276,"body":"is most acceptable ~ to bring such a"},{"startTime":1630.352,"endTime":1636.276,"body":"difficult theme into the room"},{"startTime":1636.276,"endTime":1639.729,"body":"and then draw an audience in who do not"},{"startTime":1636.276,"endTime":1639.729,"body":"care for it,"},{"startTime":1639.729,"endTime":1643.771,"body":"do not want to hear about it and do not"},{"startTime":1639.729,"endTime":1643.771,"body":"want to see it at all."},{"startTime":1643.771,"endTime":1645.953,"body":"When there are such strong barriers,"},{"startTime":1645.953,"endTime":1648.835,"body":"the only way to break down those walls is"},{"startTime":1649.123,"endTime":1650.805,"body":"through entering the room with pure"},{"startTime":1649.123,"endTime":1650.805,"body":"beauty."},{"startTime":1650.805,"endTime":1656.493,"body":"~ And so, yes, I put in a special effort"},{"startTime":1650.805,"endTime":1656.493,"body":"to ensure that visually"},{"startTime":1656.493,"endTime":1658.396,"body":"~ the work has"},{"startTime":1658.884,"endTime":1662.322,"body":"strong, beautiful appeal as,"},{"startTime":1662.262,"endTime":1663.703,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"startTime":1662.322,"endTime":1663.322,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":1663.883,"endTime":1666.364,"body":"okay. Can I have your last number,"},{"startTime":1666.364,"endTime":1669.462,"body":"please? Number one,"},{"startTime":1666.751,"endTime":1667.751,"body":"One."},{"startTime":1669.462,"endTime":1673.234,"body":"This is from Liz. Do you work on multiple"},{"startTime":1669.462,"endTime":1673.234,"body":"projects at one time?"},{"startTime":1673.234,"endTime":1675.265,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1673.508,"endTime":1675.075,"body":"Yes, I do. Yes, always."},{"startTime":1675.84,"endTime":1679.442,"body":"So do you always sort of make it known"},{"startTime":1675.84,"endTime":1679.442,"body":"that you're working on different things"},{"startTime":1679.502,"endTime":1681.263,"body":"or do you just, do you keep some,"},{"startTime":1681.263,"endTime":1682.814,"body":"you know, quietly to yourself?"},{"startTime":1683.227,"endTime":1685.598,"body":"I keep trying a lot of things all the"},{"startTime":1683.227,"endTime":1685.598,"body":"time."},{"startTime":1685.598,"endTime":1691.02,"body":"99.99 % of the times I fail. So I'm"},{"startTime":1685.598,"endTime":1691.02,"body":"sitting on a pile of a lot of failed"},{"startTime":1691.02,"endTime":1697.243,"body":"~ So I never really share my ~ work until"},{"startTime":1691.02,"endTime":1697.243,"body":"it's reached a point where it needs"},{"startTime":1691.506,"endTime":1692.506,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1697.243,"endTime":1700.174,"body":"to be shared. So for example, there is a"},{"startTime":1697.243,"endTime":1700.174,"body":"project which I showed"},{"startTime":1700.174,"endTime":1703.206,"body":"at the SheClicks Fujifilm Talk."},{"startTime":1703.206,"endTime":1707.738,"body":"~ I have been doing that work for two"},{"startTime":1703.206,"endTime":1707.738,"body":"years and it's still not out"},{"startTime":1704.765,"endTime":1705.765,"body":"yes."},{"startTime":1707.326,"endTime":1708.326,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1707.738,"endTime":1710.109,"body":"in the public domain. It's almost"},{"startTime":1707.738,"endTime":1710.109,"body":"complete."},{"startTime":1711.069,"endTime":1717.509,"body":"But I will not share it until I am 100%"},{"startTime":1711.069,"endTime":1717.509,"body":"sure that it is okay"},{"startTime":1717.509,"endTime":1721.149,"body":"to send it out there. It takes a lot out"},{"startTime":1717.509,"endTime":1721.149,"body":"of you."},{"startTime":1718.825,"endTime":1719.825,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1721.149,"endTime":1727.189,"body":"It's like bearing your soul every single"},{"startTime":1721.149,"endTime":1727.189,"body":"time and just keeping it out"},{"startTime":1727.189,"endTime":1731.869,"body":"in the market to be judged and laughed at"},{"startTime":1727.189,"endTime":1731.869,"body":"and commented upon."},{"startTime":1731.869,"endTime":1735.889,"body":"There's a lot of fear and there's a lot of"},{"startTime":1731.869,"endTime":1735.889,"body":"protection that you feel towards your"},{"startTime":1735.889,"endTime":1737.985,"body":"projects. So I take a while always to send"},{"startTime":1735.889,"endTime":1737.985,"body":"them out."},{"startTime":1738.504,"endTime":1740.826,"body":"Yes, I can understand that as well."},{"startTime":1740.826,"endTime":1746.991,"body":"As you say, you know, if it's the theme or"},{"startTime":1740.826,"endTime":1746.991,"body":"the subject that you're interested in,"},{"startTime":1746.991,"endTime":1750.575,"body":"it can take a while to work out how you're"},{"startTime":1746.991,"endTime":1750.575,"body":"going to photograph it,"},{"startTime":1750.575,"endTime":1753.657,"body":"what you're going to do with those images"},{"startTime":1750.575,"endTime":1753.657,"body":"and where they're going to be seen."},{"startTime":1753.657,"endTime":1756.39,"body":"So you need to find, feel your way really."},{"startTime":1756.743,"endTime":1757.785,"body":"Yes, absolutely."},{"startTime":1759.08,"endTime":1761.033,"body":"Well, Sujata thank you so much for joining"},{"startTime":1759.08,"endTime":1761.033,"body":"me today."},{"startTime":1761.033,"endTime":1763.436,"body":"It's been absolutely wonderful to hear"},{"startTime":1761.033,"endTime":1763.436,"body":"from you and thank you"},{"startTime":1763.436,"endTime":1764.608,"body":"for answering all those questions."},{"startTime":1764.807,"endTime":1767.057,"body":"Thank you so much for making this space"},{"startTime":1764.807,"endTime":1767.057,"body":"once again,"},{"startTime":1767.057,"endTime":1768.057,"body":"Angela."},{"startTime":1768.03,"endTime":1769.295,"body":"You're very welcome. Bye bye."},{"startTime":1770.882,"endTime":1773.515,"body":"Thanks for joining me for this episode of"},{"startTime":1770.882,"endTime":1773.515,"body":"the She Clicks Women"},{"startTime":1773.515,"endTime":1775.768,"body":"in Photography podcast. I hope you enjoyed"},{"startTime":1773.515,"endTime":1775.768,"body":"it."},{"startTime":1775.768,"endTime":1778.652,"body":"Special thanks to everyone who sent in a"},{"startTime":1775.768,"endTime":1778.652,"body":"question."},{"startTime":1778.652,"endTime":1783.279,"body":"You'll find links to Sujata's website and"},{"startTime":1778.652,"endTime":1783.279,"body":"social media channels in the show notes."},{"startTime":1784.421,"endTime":1786.056,"body":"I'll be back with another episode soon,"},{"startTime":1786.056,"endTime":1789.356,"body":"so please subscribe to the show and tell"},{"startTime":1786.056,"endTime":1789.356,"body":"all your friends and followers about it."},{"startTime":1789.356,"endTime":1791.875,"body":"In the meantime, enjoy your photography."}]}