They Can Do It - Even with Special Needs | Ep. 110

TD Flenaugh and Michelle Steiner discuss overcoming learning disabilities. Michelle shares her struggles with math and social acceptance, having been diagnosed with a learning disability in kindergarten. Despite setbacks, she found support in a writing group and advocated for herself, achieving a bachelor's degree. Michelle emphasizes the importance of early diagnosis, accommodations, and self-advocacy. She highlights her blog, Michelle's Mission, and upcoming projects. Michelle advises parents to encourage self-advocacy and support their children in finding activities that spark joy. TD Flenaugh underscores the need for parents to help their children access necessary accommodations and advocate for themselves.

Connect with Michelle Steiner

Follow her on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/steiner7250/

Follow her on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-steiner-0573ba260/

Follow her on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/michelle.steiner.493966/

Visit her website, Michelle’s Mission -  https://www.michellesmission.com/

Transcript

TD Flenaugh: 0:00

TD, learning disabilities are often invisible disabilities that affect the way someone learns and the way their brain works, something that a lot of kids struggle with, even adults struggle with, is how to navigate the challenges that a learning disability gives them. Our next guest today on the falling for learning podcast tells us how she navigated these challenges and how she achieved goals that people in her life told her that she wasn't able to achieve. Stick around for this show so you can find out how to give your child the competitive advantage no matter what disability they may be facing. Hello. Michelle Steiner, thank you so much for joining us today. How are you doing?

Michelle Steiner: 1:18

I am doing wonderful. How are you

TD Flenaugh: 1:20

doing great. It is summertime, and I have been on a little vacation. My very close cousin, my sister, cousin, is celebrating her 50th birthday. And so we had a cruise. We had like, all kinds of celebrations for her. And so I am really feeling relaxed and and great now that we I'm in the summer months. How about you? How has your summer been? So far, it's been going well. It's nice having that little break from school. We've been celebrating birthdays and our anniversary and just different things and being on a podcast and just enjoying the summer. Excellent. So a question that we ask all of our guests that come on the falling for learning podcast is what made you fall in love with learning as a child.

Michelle Steiner: 2:11

What made me fall in love with learning as a child was my dad found a story that I wrote about a dinosaur whenever I was young and I was I, he said, This is really good. And he would read me stories every night when I was little, and I just started to love reading, and I started to love writing, and that was so important to me, because up until that point, I was really frustrated in school, and I didn't think I was good at anything. And reading and writing really became my world

TD Flenaugh: 2:39

Okay, and so that is great, just seeing that your dad complimented something about you and that helped you to latch on to something that really that you felt good about you felt confident with.Tell me about some of your educational experiences that help lead to the work that you do today.

Michelle Steiner: 3:03

Well, some of I was diagnosed with a learning disability whenever I was in kindergarten. I can remember just really being in school and being frustrated in the classroom. My teacher noticed that I was really struggling whenever I was there. I struggled with math. I struggled with a lot of things, with writing my name, I also had a great difficulty just with learning and anything math related was really difficult for me, and I was diagnosed with a learning disability whenever I was in kindergarten, and I had to repeat the grade and I had to go to a different school, and it still was a public school in our in our district, but I had to do that, and school was a real struggle for me. I struggled to learn. I just wanted to be accepted by my peers. So I also struggled socially as well, and it was just really difficult for me with that, and I just didn't think I was good at anything. But luckily, I as I went throughout school, I started to be in more regular ed classes. I was in all regular ed classes except for math and resource whenever I was in school and socially, though, it got a lot harder for me. A lot of my peer groups became more defined, and I just didn't feel like I fit in anywhere, and I found a group that was right outside of our school district that was not as affiliated with our school, and I didn't have peers that went there, so I was able to find other friends that had similar interests, and I could shed that reputation that followed Me for all those years, and when I stopped hanging out with that group, I started to hang out with another group that I was involved with, and it was an adult writing group. And 30 some years later, we still meet once a month to talk about our writing and we're in each other's lives, and they really encourage me you should write about having a learning disability, math, oh, no, that's too personal, and I wrote some really bad poetry and some other stuff I wouldn't want to read today.

TD Flenaugh: 5:07

Well, thank you so much for sharing that like you know, I think something we have to highlight is finding that specific group for your child.

Michelle Steiner: 5:18

Yes,

TD Flenaugh: 5:18

It's really important. They may, you know, and I want to say, like, how you said, your family found something outside of your school. Sometimes not at the school. Sometimes you can change school, sometimes you can't, but you might be able to look outside of the school to find activities that will help spark some joy for your child, help them. Find a friend group, find their people, you know, so that is so good that you've brought it up, and hopefully we're taking those things to heart as we're some of us out there are trying to struggling with, how do we support our kids?

Michelle Steiner: 5:55

I began to receive specialty instruction, and I also began to have accommodations as well in the classroom. And learning was really hard, especially in the very beginning. I didn't I really struggled. I just wanted to learn like my peers, and I just wanted to have all that, and it just wasn't coming together very easily for me. And I also wanted to be accepted, and I was also bullied from a very young age. I went to a very small, conservative school district where I couldn't hide that I was struggling in the classroom. I couldn't camouflage that I went to learning support, to have classes or to have a test read to me, or to have extra time on tests. It was just really difficult for me, and it started very early on with that. I even struggled when I was in learning support, because most of my peers struggled with reading, some behavior issues. Sadly, some of them had trauma backgrounds, and I can I know there's also students in my class that, looking back, I don't think they had learning disabilities. Some of them had autism and other things, and we just didn't know what to do, so they just dumped them in the class. As I got throughout school, though, it got a lot easier for me academically. We figured out that I could read really well and I could learn, as long as it wasn't involving math or handwriting. I that was something typing changed a lot of that as well.

TD Flenaugh: 7:21

Can you, yeah, so your disability, they found out. Can you tell us what it was, or what they called it?

Michelle Steiner: 7:28

Sure, whenever I was young, they just said that I had a learning disability.

TD Flenaugh: 7:32

Okay,

Michelle Steiner: 7:33

that's how it was explained with with my parents,

TD Flenaugh: 7:36

okay, oh,

Michelle Steiner: 7:36

yeah.

TD Flenaugh: 7:39

And so then as you got older, you're saying that you could notice it was more about math. So do they have, like, another diagnosis for something more specific? Now?

Unknown: 7:49

they didn't give it anything more specific. As I went throughout school. They didn't find out a lot of the other thing. I mean, they knew visual perception was another thing as well, but we always knew math was the was going to be my big challenge. And I can remember, they tried putting me in a regular ed math and even the basic class, and I still I just didn't do well. So I ended up back and learning support. But one thing that they found out really did work was if I was I could be in all regular ed classes by the time I was in high school, except for math and a resource room, and I was doing really well. I was I made honor roll. I had good grades. But I mean, the the bully, it got harder for me socially. Though, whenever I was in in those higher grades, I can just remember the peer groups are more defined, and I just didn't feel like I fit in. Like I fit in with anybody, and it was hard. So what I ended up doing was I found a group outside of our school district. They was an arts based group, and I found people that didn't go to my school, and they accepted me for having for who I was. They didn't know that I had the disability, and when I later shared I did, I found out there was other people that had that. And whenever I stopped hanging out with that group, I found an adult writing group that, 20 some years later, we still meet every Saturday to, I mean, once a month, to talk about our writing and we're in each other's lives. And that really made the difference for me,

TD Flenaugh: 9:24

I just yeah, like a lot of you know, parents and caregivers, educators, like helping a kid find a place, something that they really love to do, and find, like a peer group that they could do that with, is really pivotal in a lot of kids' lives, and so that's something that you know, if you're not sure how to support your kid, that could be one thing is like, get help them. Try to connect to what they like, really take notice of what they do. Well, like you were saying, like, you may not be good at math, but you've got your compliments about your reading or your writing, and. That really helped you to find a friend group as well. So sometimes they don't know per se. You may have to point it out and, you know, give them compliments, and then they might gravitate towards something, but it it doesn't happen right away, but it's something that you could be looking out for, for sure. So thank you for

Michelle Steiner: 10:19

yes, definitely. Again. Yeah,

TD Flenaugh: 10:22

yeah. So, so you did tell me that you did have some people telling you that you wouldn't be able to do certain things. Like, I don't know, you know, who are those people that told you those things? Like, you know, what kind of role did they have in your life? And then what were

Michelle Steiner: 10:37

sure those things they were telling you couldn't do well. I had a learning support teacher who told me that I couldn't handle going to college because of my math, and she was telling me that I should just go to a trade school, but nothing that really interested me. So I decided that wasn't going to be a wise choice. So I decided I wanted to go to college. I had a psychiatrist who told me that I would not, most likely not, go beyond Community College, and that was really discouraging. And when I got to community college, I had an advisor who told me that I would have limited job choices because of my math. And I also had people that just didn't think that even using disability accommodations was right. Some people thought that they were cheating. I can remember I had a professor that said that when I asked, Can I use a calculator in this class? And she said, Well, we use our brains in this room, not calculators.

TD Flenaugh: 11:31

Yeah. So people's attitudes toward disabilities and then, like those special accommodations that are needed are sometimes a challenge. I think, hopefully, as we are getting we're evolving as a society and everything that we're more understanding. You know, our families may run into some of these barriers, and so it's good to be aware of it, so you can help prepare your child for it and really be able to circumvent these, you know, challenges that come up, what made you keep going when you're even hearing from other people, like, probably not Michelle, not able to do this, like, what kept you going?

Michelle Steiner: 12:13

I did have one person was really encouraging. I had a student teacher when I was in high school that told me you can go to college because you know how to study, and that sometimes I would hear that voice whenever I was at school when it was hard. I also was really blessed to have parents that were there for me as well and understood that. And I also had great friends that they couldn't fix the problem, but they could be my friend throughout everything. And I think that's really key in life is to have that

TD Flenaugh: 12:42

something for our audience to really take away from this is like helping your kids find a good friend group, good friends, identify good friends, and really being encouraging of your kids despite whatever you know setbacks or shortcomings that they may have, right is really, really important. So that kept you going. And so tell us about, you know, your education level that you were able to achieve despite different people saying, no, not Michelle, not able to handle it.

Michelle Steiner: 13:10

I was able to get my bachelor's degree, and that came as a real surprise. After I got my associate's degree, I moved out on my own. After a while, I had some temp jobs. I not able to drive because of my disability. So it was really nice that I was living in a place that was in a central location. But I always wanted more for myself, and be careful what you wish for, because that it just might happen. And I can remember I had to move back in with my parents because of financial reasons. And during this job, my down with my job was downsizing, and I thought, I'm going to give University a try. And I found a program that had the least amount of math and science possible, and it had disability accommodations and a program that I loved, and I went in there, and I used the accommodations. I had a note taker, I had extended test time on test I had tutoring when I needed it, and most importantly, I advocated for myself. I would introduce myself to new professors and tell them the services that I needed, and most of them were wonderful and did everything they could do to help me. I had a few that didn't quite get the memo, and there was still that stigma with disability accommodations with other peers, but I was just able to silence that and focus on what I needed to do to be to be a success.

TD Flenaugh: 14:24

I, you know, as a as a teacher, as a parent, you know, I've heard from lots of parents, and I've experienced this myself as a teacher, where sometimes as kids get older, they're really ashamed of the accommodations. They don't want to use them, and obviously they'll need them, so that shame, or whatever, which, you know, it'll stop them from going where they want to go, because they're not getting the support that they need. And so I just want to highlight like, you know, you're able to get your bachelor's degree, you're able. Able to find a career that worked for you. Be independent, but you did use those accommodations because you needed them, and you advocated for yourself. So I I really hope out there that kids and parents are helping kids to advocate for themselves, because they do need those supports. Right? It's, it's not that there's something wrong with you is you need extra support in certain areas, right? And all of us have something that we're not so good at. And trying to take that shame away and just really use what you need to get where you need to go, is really important.

Michelle Steiner: 15:36

Exactly

TD Flenaugh: 15:37

this may what other people are worried about is that you said there's a stigma with your peers like so some people saw you using something and they said some things or what. What did that look like? Yes, it did look like that. And this was actually in one of the classes where they were teaching about disabilities, and I had a peer that was saying, Oh, they get extra time because they have a disability on a test. I wish I got that. They were saying, well, maybe I could use it with my allergies. And I, you know, I'm hearing this, and I have allergies myself, and that wasn't the reason why I was getting the extra time. I was getting it because I had a separate condition with having a learning disability. But I learned that, okay, somebody can think that, people can feel that and but it's just not worth my time and my energy to go out and try to convince people that I need this. I have to just go forward knowing this is what I need to do, and take that action. And there's always going to be people that are going to think that I don't need it, or they wish they had it. I can't control that. Absolutely, I'm so glad that you said this and you talked about, you know, how you dealt with that, because, you know, we don't know, right? A lot of times it's just silent. The kid doesn't want the accommodation anymore, so they may not tell us, you know, Kim over there said something when I had, you know, or they made a face, or they were laughing, or whatever it is, right? They don't always tell us. We just know, okay, they don't want to use it anymore, but obviously they need it. So how can we help them? You know? And of course, they won't, you know. Sometimes they don't make it through their classes and everything, and they don't achieve their goals because they're worried about what someone is going to say. But it is their right. It is your right in in learning to advocate for yourself and just move on like you can't dwell on what other people are going to say when you're getting the things that you need. You know.

Michelle Steiner: 17:32

Yep, exactly.

TD Flenaugh: 17:33

Okay, so tell us about your company now, Michelle's Mission,

Michelle Steiner: 17:38

yes, I have a blog where I write about my life with having a learning disability, and I feature photography and a lot of nature metaphors on there. I might talk about the process of my accepting my disabilities like a flower that's unblooming. And I try to make it simple so people can understand that might have a disability. And I also make it simple so other people who may not understand learning disabilities, understand, have a knowledge of that as well. And I also have a store where I do put my photography. I have take a lot of pictures because I'm not able to drive. Whenever I'm on my walks, I take pictures of flowers and other things in nature that then inspire me, and that gives me that chance to stop and smell the roses and to notice details that I would miss if I was driving a vehicle.

TD Flenaugh: 18:28

I'm just so glad. Like, you know, I It's so wonderful to hear like, you know, you're able to be independent. Maybe you're not able to do this one thing. Just to tell you, Michelle, like driving was the hardest thing that I, I learned how to do. It really was, but also now my my dream car. I don't really have a dream car, but it's a personal driver. So it's, it's something,

Michelle Steiner: 18:54

yeah, Don't blame you

TD Flenaugh: 18:57

and there's lots of self driving cars and all that kind of stuff. So, I mean, just one thing, of course, you know is, is not a big thing to you know, from your life, you have so many things going on. You also like publishing. Can you tell us about some of the things, some of the writing that you've done and been published?

Michelle Steiner: 19:15

Sure, I have a couple few stories published in two anthologies I had a chance to write about one. It was called rediscovering your story, and I went to a workshop where people talked about different things, and we had prompts. Some of the prompts were fun ones where we talked about our hair were our favorite place, but we also had the chance to talk about Where I have that, the link for that as well on my website, and I have another anthology that's tentatively coming out in the fall, and it's about just my experience with having a learning disability and growing in a garden with that.

TD Flenaugh: 20:16

All right, so we'll look out for that. All the links are in the show notes, so we'll take a look at that. Um,

Michelle Steiner: 20:22

sure.

TD Flenaugh: 20:22

So can you tell us your website? Can you get your tell us a little bit about Michelle's, Michelle's mission? Can you tell us the website and and all of that?

Michelle Steiner: 20:31

Sure My My website is www, dot, Michelle's mission, com. And on there you'll find my pictures for my adventures and my walks, and also just different blog articles where we get information.

TD Flenaugh: 20:50

The rewrite method and the rewrite method workbook are your go to resource for helping kids to learn to fall in love with writing. It has the tips, tools, resources, strategies and skill building activities to help kids fall out of writing, hoot and into loving to write. Get your book set today,

Michelle Steiner: 21:33

and about having a learning disability,

TD Flenaugh: 21:37

okay, all right, so when people are what kind of advice right will you give to people who's there may be afraid to get tested or assessed like you know you said when you're a little kid, your teacher was like, I think she may have a disability. But I have really spoken and worked with a lot of parents who are, like, worried about that their kid may be behind, but they're worried like, I don't want my kid labeled. I don't want this to be a burden in their life, or like a barrier right now that they've been identified, or something like that.

Unknown: 22:18

I think first of all, if you are identified early, it becomes more of a lifestyle, and you have a chance to adjust to that as being part of your life. I know very early on, just it became, it was not always fun, it was not always easy, but that became a lifestyle. I knew that I was going to have to do things differently, and that gave me a realistic approach when I went to college and whenever I even approached problems in my everyday life, that I knew that I was going to have to have certain accommodations, I also understood that I would need to have just different ways to be able to be a success in life. And my parents explained to me things in simple wage appropriate terms. They told me that I have a learning disability and that my brain works differently and learns differently, and that was much better advice than I was hearing from my peers. A lot of my peers were telling me that I wasn't very smart. They were using a lot of unkind words to describe me, and I just think that if I wouldn't have had that diagnosis and I wouldn't have had that help. I might have spent years struggling in school. My parents might have not, weren't educated on what to do, and I could have been punished a lot more for bad grades or things like that, and I don't know if I would have been able to go as far as I have with having that confidence and that knowledge of myself that

TD Flenaugh: 23:45

is, you know, it's so important that you brought that up. I'm so glad that, you know, hopefully people are really taking those words to heart, right? That getting diagnosed early, like finding out what the problem is being being able to name what it is that's the issue, and then as you grew, right, you're learning how to adapt, and you're able to advocate for yourself, you're able to pinpoint what the issue is. Saying, like you're gonna struggle, but if you have a way to address that struggle, you've got supports in place, like they could always reach out and get and have, then you're gonna do better than just being, you know, behind with no end in sight. Like there's nothing. There's no definition, there's

Michelle Steiner: 25:20

Yeah. So exactly

TD Flenaugh: 25:21

yeah, there's nothing documenting. Because, you know, sometimes teachers or whatever, or people don't want to give you the extra but if it's documented, it's like, no, I do. I'm required. I am right. It's my rights to have this extra support, this extra time or whatever. So it means a lot. We just have to, I know it's hard. We, you know, we all like, love our kids, we all want the best for them, and we don't always know if this new thing coming in or someone testing them, or whatever right is going to be the right thing for them. Right?

Michelle Steiner: 25:52

Exactly. It's just knowing that it is having that as a as something that they need, and it's documented, and that way they have to follow through with that.

TD Flenaugh: 26:04

It holds people accountable for giving you the support that you need as well. I think it's also important for parents to know that, just like as a parent, you could say, No, I don't want my child assessed. Once your child is assessed, they you still have control over, like, what kind of supports they they need if you don't feel like there's enough there or enough support, right? This isn't working. I need you to do something better. I need you to do, you know, so you have more control. It's not like just out of your hands once your child is, you know, get the individualized education plan, like you still have rights, and you get a say so about their placement and all kinds of things. So it's something, it's a tool to be used for the benefit of the child. So sometimes we people don't understand that, because they it's just unknown. They haven't been in it. You know

Unknown: 27:03

exactly, yeah, of

TD Flenaugh: 27:05

course. What were there some changes over the years that you had to make, or added accommodations, or different things like that, that you needed, that you had to advocate for,

Unknown: 27:17

some of the things that I really had to make, I didn't have a note taker when I was in all my years of school, so that's one of the things I had a college I also had an additional diagnosis of limited hand dexterity in both of my hands, so that's been an adjustment, but the lights went off after I figured out that. So basically, sometimes what some of the things that I've had to do that that's actually what inspired me to write my first article was my struggle to open up doors and being able to open up my door. I was so frustrated when we moved into our home, I couldn't open up our front door with with my hands and it I wrote an article on the mighty and it got published, and I had a great response, but some of the things I've had to do is I have, like, a key helper that helps me be able to open a door. I have jar openers and bottle openers for things if I can't open up a jar. Those are a few things that I that I can do. And definitely, with having a phone, it's a lot of the technology too. If I'm out in public and I need to leave a tip, I can use my phone to do that. So I think that's some of the things that we've adjusted. Typing has been a big thing too. Instead of handwriting, I think that that helps out if someone wants to read what I have to say. And there's things that I can sign, like documents online, rather than having someone try to figure out my my

TD Flenaugh: 28:44

That is so good that you brought up those things. And I think the door handle is such a common thing that we all open so, so easy, quote, unquote, for a lot of people.

Michelle Steiner: 28:59

Yeah,

TD Flenaugh: 28:59

that you know you understand. Like, you need to give them access. Like, if you know, if this person is not able to open it, then give them support they need. And the same thing for the academics, like, if they need support note taking or something like that, please give them that support so they could access it. So, yeah, that's something I feel like people maybe can relate to more because they don't understand. Like, that's so simple, but not for everyone, right? And people needing support to get inside of a door is so essential, but something that maybe people could think about make them really think like, okay, no, this person does need some extra support, and it's okay, right? It's okay,

Michelle Steiner: 29:36

right?

TD Flenaugh: 29:46

like, what's coming up next for you. Like, what is coming up next for you?

Michelle Steiner: 29:50

I would definitely love to increase my blog definitely and more speaking arrangements to be able to share my story. And I would also like to have a book in the future. I. About my life a memoir. Where can we find you? Like on social we told we heard about your website. What about on social media? Are you what a platform I'm on Facebook and Instagram. Okay, great. And again, that will be in the show notes for everyone to see. You can reach out to Michelle, okay, thank you guys. Thank you so much for joining us on the falling for learning podcast. Are there any like last words that you want to give advice to educators or parents out there watching or listening to the show? I would just probably say to really encourage students to advocate. I know that I work as a para educator in a school, and I always encourage my students to advocate, because someday our students are going to leave us, and they're going to graduate, and hopefully they'll be able to achieve every single dream that they have, but it's really for so many of them, their disability isn't going to leave them. So it's so important that they know how to advocate and speak up for themselves.

TD Flenaugh: 30:58

Okay, thank you so much. Do something today that's going to give your child a competitive advantage. Thank you for joining us. Thanks again for supporting the falling for learning podcast. New Episodes go live every Saturday at 5pm you can watch us on youtube.com/@fallingforlearning or listen on all major podcast platforms such as Apple, Google, Audible, Spotify and much more. For more resources, visit falling in love with learning.com. We really appreciate you. Have a wonderful week.