Episode 45 - All AMP'd Up with Special Guest Dave Vickers

Episode 45 - All AMP'd Up with Special Guest Dave Vickers

In this episode Frank Perrone joins the guys to talk with Amps Master and Chief Judge Dave Vickers.  The guys talk about the new changes that will take place at the AMPS International Show in South Bend Indiana in April.  The guys also talk about what's on their bench as well as upcoming shows and also give Shout Outs to some great work they have seen on social media.   There is a great and funny cold opening as well as a closing to the show, so make sure to stay after the end music.  Hope you enjoy and have a few laughs.

Opening and end music by Supernova by Arthur Vyncke https://soundcloud.com/arthurvost
Music promoted by http://www.free-stock-music.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_12 0:00

Alright, alright, settle down. What is this? A support group for glue sniffers? I thought I'd see real models, you know, the kind that smile back. Instead, I walk in and it's plastic tanks, tiny airplanes, and five grown men arguing about paint decals and how to judge a plastic model. I didn't take a wrong turn, I crashed straight into a midlife crisis convention. And who do we got hosting this self-proclaimed masterpiece? Wow! First, we have Rob Riv here. Look at this guy, and he's the ringleader. He's got more ideas than a guy who's never finished one. I'm trying to understand him. Do I need subtitles or a translator? And he's speaking English, allegedly. Rob, I've seen your models. Even the glue is asking for paint. Justin Ryan, so you're bad saying, how the hell are you doing? Will you take a look at this poor guy? Do yourself a favor and trim the damn beard. Because you look like you lost the bet at a lumberjack convention. It's really not helping. This is the guy who says, quick weekend bill, and then vanishes for six months like the FBI's looking for him. You're free now. It's okay. Steve Santucci, the Tooch. It's really nice to finally meet you. Who am I kidding? It's really not. So what hobby is it this week, huh? Ancient pottery restoration? This guy nods the whole time. Quiet, calm. Then boom, best line of the night. I don't trust him with those shifty eyes and dressing up in all the rev war costumes like he does. I'm telling you, he's dangerous. This is how Bond villains start. Frank the Maddie. Oh, Frankie, my boy. What are we building this week? A model of the eighth wonder of the world. This guy paints so many tiny details, and it's gonna squint to see him. Relax, it's a model, not the Sistine Chapel. I asked Frankie for directions once. He gave me the weathering tutorial. Rum-bumadams. Rum. Hey, rum-up! Wake up over here, sweet hum. Jeez, not again. Every group's got that one guy you can't leave alone too long. This is that guy. Turn your back for five minutes, and he's drinking, leveling thinner, and calling in a tasting note. And together these five geniuses bring you a podcast about tiny plastic things that somehow takes three hours to explain. Hell, I've seen shorter friggin' wars. But I'll tell you something. They got passion, they got talent, and they got absolutely no friggin' idea when to stop talking. Hell, I'm Don Rickles, so I know all about that. So buckle up, you maniacs, because this isn't just a podcast. It's a full-blown modeling insanity meltdown. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.

SPEAKER_10 4:05

Hey everybody, Mr. Frankie Denati. Hello.

unknown 4:10

Mr.

SPEAKER_10 4:10

Steve Santucci.

SPEAKER_07 4:12

Hello.

SPEAKER_10 4:13

Mr. Rob Adams. Yo yo. Tonight we have Mr. Frankie Perome with us. So hey, Frankie. What's up, everyone? And our special guest for the show tonight, the Chief Judge for Amps, our good friend, Mr. Dave Vickers. Hey, what's up, guys? Thanks for having me. All right. Excellent. The reason why we have Dave Vickers on is because we are going to be speaking about Amps. Amps Nationals is coming up in about a month out of the day this recording. Today's March 15th. So it's about a month away before Amps National. So we're going to do our traditional Amps kind of um intro show for the show, but we're also going to talk about a lot of changes that have gone on in the judging system in AMPS. And we definitely want to talk about that so people are aware of it. A lot of good stuff is going on. It's been going off for quite a while. Neil Stokes, the president, he's been doing a great job doing a lot of we'll call like uh was it like subgroups or whatever they call them? Um working groups to go over a lot of different aspects of judging to come up with better ways of doing it. And it's actually been really good because you're picking a lot of people's brains and a lot of there's a couple of psychopaths in that group, actually. There's a couple of guys in there that I really wouldn't trust. You know, I'm a little worried about them getting their uh opinions involved, so we'll see if it makes it in there. But uh overall, I think everybody's doing a pretty good job. So we will get to that, right? So, Dave, it's going good, right?

SPEAKER_09 5:29

It's going fantastic. Yeah, uh, we're we're getting all ready for South Bend and everything is clicking right along. Uh, you know, we've got guys been doing it a while, so not any surprises. So, and we've been to South Bend before, so it's nice when you're going back to the venue, you know.

SPEAKER_10 5:45

It is a good venue, and we are gonna get to all that, but usually we clean things up when we have our podcast. We just want to say that the last podcast we did with our good friend from Red Beach One Studios, which is Rob Burnside, he was on our guest the last show, and that was a lot of fun. We did talk about um taking risks in the hobby, and I think it resonated with a lot of people about taking risks and trying new things to get to try, you know, to get better in the hobby or do different things. And I think a lot of people took that to heart, which I liked. We also released our well, I was on it, these guys weren't, but we did our ultimate sci-fi movie showdown with Dave Goldfinch and Whitey, which was a big hit. People loved the Arnie intro, Rob. Did you like the Arnold Schwarzenegger intro?

SPEAKER_05 6:23

Oh, yeah, dude. That was pretty damn idea.

SPEAKER_10 6:26

Well, no, Arnold wasn't, but the Terminator Museum that I used was.

SPEAKER_05 6:30

Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_10 6:31

Wow, I couldn't believe it. How many people really listened to that and uh really enjoyed it, and there was a lot of great feedback. Dave Goldfinch and myself are gonna be starting a new podcast. It's gonna be called The Misfits After Dark. We're gonna be doing movie talk and doing a lot of things movie related because everybody knows I love movies, and we just actually recorded our ultimate horror movie showdown last night. Myself, Dave Goldfinch, and Whitey. And uh that's gonna be released soon, too. And that was a lot of fun. It got even crazier.

SPEAKER_05 6:58

Was goldfin, did he did he do birds? Come on.

SPEAKER_10 7:02

Birds was mentioned, but not by Dave Goldfinch.

SPEAKER_05 7:04

Oh okay.

SPEAKER_10 7:05

Yeah, I actually like the Mel Brooks version of like high anxiety when the birds are shitting on him as opposed to getting attacked, which is really funny. Yeah, so we just recorded that. And listen, there's a lot of things going on right now in the hobby. Tooch and myself, we just went to Triple A Hobbies a week, couple weeks ago. They were doing their little 40% off because they're closing down right now. So they just did their 40% off in the warehouse, which was a good, a lot of fun. We did pretty good, right? Tooch had fun.

SPEAKER_07 7:30

Oh, it's always a blast with you and Lou. Well, just so if you people aren't aren't aware, Triple A Hobbies is the brick and mortar that's been around for over 40 years in Magnolia, New Jersey. It's also uh the home base for uh Mega Hobbies, their online retailer, and their international importer, which is Stevens International. So all three are shutting down simultaneously. I think they already had shut down Stevens International because they haven't been importing much. But we got into the warehouse, they uh cordon off areas where we could go out of safety reasons. There were other areas we couldn't, but you know, it was like uh, you know, watching Riff go down and up and down down the aisles. I wouldn't say it was like a crack baby, but it was pretty close.

SPEAKER_13 8:07

Was it like the Toys R Us toy runs from the 80s? Kind of. It was good.

SPEAKER_10 8:12

They had a lot of good stuff, they had a lot of good stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 8:15

Yeah, we weren't entirely sure, like we just knew we were getting in because we paid$25 and that$25 was coming off whatever we spent. Right. When we got there, there were there was ugh Rob, you gotta tell him the story. We're walking into the store, and what happens?

SPEAKER_10 8:27

Oh, yeah. Well, I want to give a shout out to Joe. Joe, I don't remember we never exchanged last names, but uh we're walking out of the car, and I'm saying, I don't know if I was saying something disparaging to Tucci. It could have been something disparaging, either to him or too. And as we were walking in, some a guy stopped and he heard me talking, and he recognized the voice, and we were talking for a while. He loves the podcast. I think Joe, I think it was Joe. It's a couple weeks later, really nice guy, and I really appreciated that. You know, sometimes when you know you you can't mistake this voice, for God's sake, but it was really good meeting Joe in front of the store while we were walking into AAA hobbies. So yeah, that was a good time.

SPEAKER_07 9:04

And he was the one who informed us there was 40% off when you went over to the city.

SPEAKER_10 9:07

Right, we didn't know that it originally like, oh no, they're not doing this. Hold on.

SPEAKER_07 9:11

You said you had to pay$25.

SPEAKER_05 9:12

So you paid for it. It was a deposit.

SPEAKER_10 9:14

Deposit to hold your spot, and that$25 was was held and was used towards your purchase. It wasn't like you paid an additional$25. It was$25, and then it was used, and it was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_07 9:24

They were doing our slots 12 at a time. So we had the 3 30, what, 3 30 slot, 3 o'clock?

SPEAKER_05 9:29

And everything was 40% off. It didn't matter what you're doing. Everything, everything in the everything in the warehouse. Holy shit, man. That's a field day.

SPEAKER_10 9:37

They had the full line of Gecko, they had like all like a lot of mini art, a lot of like MB models. See other one, the nice ICM ICM, like full line of ICM.

SPEAKER_07 9:47

I'll tell you the kit car guys, you know, that let us go into Michaels or Hobby Lobby and buying their 20% off sale cars, they would have had a field day at 40%.

SPEAKER_10 9:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had like Royfields, they had a little amount of Royfield stuff.

SPEAKER_07 9:59

And the Tamiya was they had lots of Tamiya planes, they had very little cars, nothing left in quarter scale. There was actually more in triple A hobbies than there was. We made the mistake. So you never go shopping when you're hungry.

SPEAKER_04 10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 10:11

We got there early enough, so we figured we walked around the store for a good hour. And I think I dropped like 200. You dropped like a hundred?

SPEAKER_10 10:19

I spent like 150 in the the brick and mortar part of the store, and I spent like 130 in the warehouse.

SPEAKER_05 10:24

So was the warehouse triple A still, or was it one of the other It's the same company, but they're different names.

SPEAKER_10 10:30

It's Triple A's the brick and mortar, Mega Hobby's the online store, and Stevens International is the brings it all in. Right. And the thing is it's over stimulating when you're walking through a warehouse and there's like thousands and thousands of kits back there. You know, you're looking and you're like, yeah, it's 40% off, but wow, it's still 70 bucks.

unknown 10:48

I'm not gonna buy it.

SPEAKER_07 10:48

Yeah, the thing is they had a QR code for the app to go to their Stevens International to see the prices because nothing is priced for obvious reasons. They did have a shelving where they had like uh battery operator radio control cars, they had a couple of airbrushes, decent ones too, and they had some paint sets and uh uh like uh some aftermarket, but they said because you know, Jack knows Rob's, you know, t uh, you know, his proclivity towards uh aftermarket photo edge. He said, you know, if you say the magic word to the right person, they can get you back there, you know.

SPEAKER_10 11:18

Yeah, but they only have like a lot of Edward. It wasn't kind of the photoetch that I would prefer.

SPEAKER_13 11:22

I was not able to go with you guys to AAA, which damn it. I was at ZoloCon that weekend painting my things and showing people uh all about figure painting and whatnot, talking to kids about art and how to get into painting miniatures and all that jazz and modeling. That was a two-day show, uh, not one that has a competition involved with it. It's more of like a uh comic book convention type thing, but for uh for vintage toys for the most part. Phenomenal. The lines were out the door. Was that the Valley Forge Casino? Oh yeah, the Valley Forge Casino. Way back in the day, that's where the MFCA was held. The line was up the steps and out the door of the casino just to come into the show floor.

SPEAKER_10 12:05

Dave Vick is you should be going to now that you're retired, you should be going up to MFCA. That is, I mean, it's the week after Amps, and it's probably really hard going from Indiana down back home to to Pennsylvania, but that is your shtick.

SPEAKER_13 12:18

You drive from Indiana to Philadelphia and you just hang out in the hotel until time to have MFC.

SPEAKER_09 12:23

You've been there before, Dave? Yeah, years ago. Years ago, I was there. It's been a while. But uh, so did you teach the kids how to play blackjack too since it was in the casino? No, we were in the basement.

SPEAKER_13 12:34

We were in the basement. Oh god. But no, it was it was actually really cool. There's an action figure, for lack of a better term, manufacturer. I got to talk with their head sculptor. Uh, he's from England, so we talked about bourbons and whiskies and stuff like that. Dude was amazingly awesome, and their head painter came over and we sat there and I shot the shit and talked about the the little octopus guy that I'm painting. Uh, she was really cool, and she made me determine you know what? What I want in my life is someone to be sitting next to me that we can be talking about painting figures and and art theory and color theory and all that shit while we're hanging out. Riv, you'll appreciate this. What I want in my life is I want the um Holden McNeil to my Banky Edwards. But it was uh it was no, it was really good to talk art theory and color theory and Amy for those people who like, what is he talking about? And to inspire some kids and and some talk to some kids about finding something for them when they need to escape whatever's bothering them.

SPEAKER_05 13:39

Was there lots of kids there?

SPEAKER_13 13:41

Yeah, surprisingly, yeah, there was. There was actually one dude walking around dressed up like Megatron.

SPEAKER_05 13:48

Like literally like silver paint on his face. What about the picture you posted with the G.I. Joe space shuttle thing?

SPEAKER_13 13:56

Oh, that was that was actually, I just shared that thing. I didn't didn't look for that. They said that was there. I don't know where the hell it was, but I did not know that existed.

SPEAKER_05 14:05

I was like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_13 14:06

Holy shit, this thing's massive. That's the kind of stuff that you find at that toy show. That's pretty cool. I was keeping an eye out for the aircraft carrier.

SPEAKER_10 14:15

Atlanta show took place, right, Frank? Amps Atlanta and then Atlanta figure show or amps show and figure show. Dave, you were also at Atlanta. So you were there with Frankie Perone. So how was that Atlanta show that you guys were at? I guess Dave, you go first and then Frank, you follow up.

SPEAKER_09 14:30

Well, I hadn't been there for a real long time, but I mean uh so long ago that it was like uh three venues ago that I went, and there wasn't even amps then, it was just a figure show with an ordinance category. So that that shows you how long it's been since I've been down there. And uh you know, as chief judge, I just don't get out to the other amps one-day shows or two-day shows. And um, so I figured, you know what, I'm close enough now I can make the trip. I think Frankie'd agree with me. A beautiful venue. I mean, shit. We're high class and the what was it, Hilton we were at? Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 15:06

Uh it was a Hilton, yeah. It was uh Marietta Hilton.

SPEAKER_09 15:09

My god, that thing was nice and uh a reasonable rate for the hotel. And um I just wanted to see how the the guys down there did things. I figured what the hell, since I'm going down, I'll I'll bring a couple of things. Uh for me it was kind of embarrassing because I was the only master who entered anything, so I won best master, which was absolutely meaningless.

SPEAKER_10 15:29

Well, that usually happens at those local shows. I mean, Armor Khan, there's never any masters. Occasionally my one might pop up, but you know, there's not many masters that come to those shows because there's not many regionals or whatever shows around, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I guess there was the one the super regional Indiana a few years back, which was, I guess, hosted by the Chicagoland Amps chapter, right? Back, you know, before the Nationals, right? And Armacon and Canada.

SPEAKER_09 15:56

That was kind of an experiment to see if we liked it. And plus, we did that along with the uh the real one-to-one modeler guys. Yeah. I can never remember their official name, but you know, these are the guys that restore the real things. And and that was really cool kind of seeing those together. But but the Atlanta show was great. I I thought there was good quality of models there, and uh the figure guys. John Rosengrant was there, which that was Oh, John came? Yeah, it was a real treat for me to say.

SPEAKER_10 16:25

Oh, he did a figure. Uh he did the figure part of the show, right?

SPEAKER_09 16:28

Oh no, he didn't know he did, but he had uh an M4 with uh fully original sculpted crew and infantry on the back of it. That was really cool. And he did uh SAS Jeep too that was there. But I got a chance to have breakfast and uh have a lunch with him and catch up on things. So I knew him way back when he was with Warriors in Pasadena, and I'd go down to their shop there.

SPEAKER_10 16:52

So what a great man. He's a great guy, John. We actually have him interviewed, and I'm actually and and I and I keep saying it, I'm gonna get those MFCA interviews up. Tooch and Justin interviewed him at MFCA. John Rosengrant is he's just a great man, just a wonderful person to talk to, a wealth of information, not only in the hobby, but also like in the movie industry. Matter of fact, you're like in that succession of interviews for MMI. You had um, if I remember right, I think it was either John Rosengrant, then Greg Solar, and then Dave Vickers, or it was either Greg Solar, John Rosengrant, Dave Vickers, or vice versa, however way. But you were like in the three when you guys were interviewed in the magazine. So you followed either John or Greg Solar, which was a great run of modelers interviewed in that magazine at that time.

SPEAKER_09 17:35

So well, those two dudes are my heroes, so you know they really are. Those two guys are my favorite modelers.

SPEAKER_10 17:41

You were in the mix with them because we were trying to get more um American-based modelers interviewed in there, and we've been doing a lot more of that lately, too. And and it worked out great because you were in the amps. We did a mat we did an issue leading up to amps for that show, and in that show, that's when you were interviewed, and we promoted Amps in that magazine, and that was the purpose, and I think it worked out really, really good.

SPEAKER_09 18:03

Fantastic. I had guys come up and tell me that you know, saw the article, and you know, yeah, it was great.

SPEAKER_10 18:09

And you are now a contributor to the magazine full time. We're getting your articles in there, and you will see Dave Vickers' work. He does amazing 116 scale stuff too, and also 35th. But I think you do a great job on that. That large scale is not easy, man. It is not easy. You just don't bang it out with like a vertical, you're doing groundwork, you're doing figures, and that's what Rosengrant does. Rosengrant pulls out the big boys, too, you know.

SPEAKER_09 18:32

And you go through a shitload of paint. You go to go through a shitload of paint.

SPEAKER_10 18:36

As long as it's not mission models, we have we have no problems with that, right? It's not mission models paint, is it?

SPEAKER_09 18:40

What's that?

SPEAKER_10 18:41

You're not using mission models paints, right?

SPEAKER_09 18:43

No, all right. No, I'm on old school. I'm to me and Dileo. That's my two good.

SPEAKER_10 18:48

Fantastic. That's what I want to hear.

SPEAKER_05 18:49

As long as it's not mission models, and that was funny when Scott was like, Yeah, I painted with mission models. You're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Right.

SPEAKER_10 18:57

No, we're not doing that shit.

SPEAKER_13 18:58

Well, real quick, gonna add into your uh your conversation. I I'd kind of forgotten about it. Your purchases at uh the mega hobby run the next weekend. I went up because Jack Lynch lured me in with hey, you need to come get your Spitfire out of my case. I ended up coming home after spending$313 with uh all sorts of 75 and 25% off purchases inside triple A. Yeah, that's great. I was like, you mother.

SPEAKER_10 19:26

But back to the show, Frankie Peron was there, and we never got to Frank. Frank, you uh you took some nice awards at the Atlanta show. So what did you win?

SPEAKER_08 19:36

I did. I won Best Allied and my first ever best of show.

SPEAKER_10 19:47

That's not how it's supposed to be, man. You're supposed to buy for everybody else. That's the rule. Now good for you. So I think it is.

SPEAKER_08 20:02

I think they've really rounded it out pretty well. There's a lot of great work on both sides of the uh the contest room. And it's just that show is getting a little bigger and a little bigger every day that I go to get more entries.

SPEAKER_10 20:16

Well, David Hobbes, right, gets everybody together. You guys go to Fort Benning, right? To go see the year.

SPEAKER_08 20:22

I didn't go this year. I went last year and the year before.

SPEAKER_10 20:25

Did you go, Dave?

SPEAKER_09 20:25

Did you go to Fort Benning? I didn't go to Benning, but you know, I as a Marine tanker, I went to school. Both the the armor basic and the armor advanced at Fort Knox were that's where that collection was beforehand.

SPEAKER_10 20:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 20:40

And I've been down to Benning several times too, because the Marine Corps detachment moved down there when all the armor shit moved down there. So yeah, Dyer, I don't is is Dyer still there? Do you guys know? Lynn Dyer was the the guy who was, uh if I remember right, was running the place and knew him.

SPEAKER_10 20:57

I'm not sure, I know, I'm not sure. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_09 21:00

Super great guy. And um, you know, the only reason they were able to save that collection. I don't know if you guys know this, was they don't really call themselves a museum. The way they were able to save it was through education and calling it a training facility. So they take all the guys going through armor school and bring them to that museum to teach them about the evolution and uh design of armor and through the years. And uh, I think that was a very smart thing for them to do because there were some folks that wanted to get rid of a lot of that stuff, and that would have been just to guys like us, that would have been horrible. But uh that they've done a great job and they were able to get a building and have a proper museum now. I don't know if you guys remember back in the day, but ugh man, the the way that they're gonna get government funding now, too. Yeah, they they got that for the the building, if I remember right. So good on them. And it's great. So I haven't seen a new building yet. I really want to, so Time.

SPEAKER_10 22:00

Well, Frankie, you did great. I'm glad I was an inspiration for you when it came to your JSU 152 build. I know that it was very inspiring to you when it comes to the build of it, the actual building.

SPEAKER_09 22:11

It was a beautiful piece. It was really, really nice.

SPEAKER_10 22:13

I got a real close look at it.

SPEAKER_08 22:16

Thank you, Dana.

SPEAKER_10 22:17

Frankie does good stuff. Frankie's got his nice little style. He's got a lot going on, man. Frankie's doing a great job. And uh one last thing I want to talk about, and then we're gonna get on to the topic, is the Musaru Cup. Justin Ryan participated for the insanity in the Musaru Cup. The submissions have been submitted to the Musaru Cup committee, I would say, that's gonna be judged or gonna be announced at the HeritageCon, right, Frankie? That you're gonna be at HeritageCon. What's the date of the HeritageCon again? It's Sunday, March 29th. I'll be there. Sunday, March 29th is when they'll announce the Musuru Cup winner. I know Justin kind of almost gave up the hobby because of this build. We haven't seen him. Like I was saying, Justin's now divorced, and we see him less than we saw him when he was married. Um, yeah, I can't wait. You're gonna be in your own place, we're gonna hang out all the time. We never see the guy, but uh the Moosuru Cup actually almost made him quit the hobby. So don't do the Moosuru Cup, I guess, next time, Justin. Do not volunteer. Look, I do what I gotta do. Jason Hanscomb is doing it for the Model Car Mania show, which is our car podcast. Um, and he did a great job. Brian Denklow. Do you see Brian Denclau's entry, man? He did a really great job on that too. I'm I call shenanigans on his bill, though.

SPEAKER_05 23:27

Fuck you, just took away my social media shout-out, you dick. Now I gotta find someone.

SPEAKER_10 23:30

No, no, you don't. We'll talk about the motion card.

SPEAKER_13 23:34

Brian's workmanship, craftsmanship is phenomenal. And I get it, they gave him a friggin' family sedan, you know, a Richie family sedan, but he kind of did it a little off topic. You know, the the theme was fast and furious, need for speed type 2000 speed racer, and and he did his with the, and I don't even know what it's called, but in Japan they have these real ostentatious over-the-top splitters and spoilers and exhaust pipes and stuff. And that's kind of how he did his. And like I said, I'm not knocking his craftsmanship because god damn. But but but, Brian, but big butt.

SPEAKER_10 24:16

What? Yeah, listen, Brian Denkla's a you know, he's a big good friend to the show. He's a good friend in outside of the hobby. He's a great guy. I love him. One of the nicest, greatest guys you'll ever meet. He's an amazing modeler, and I just hope he doesn't win.

SPEAKER_13 24:31

You know what, though, the the the work he did put into it, the work he did put into his car, I wouldn't be surprised.

SPEAKER_10 24:37

Frankie, you gotta grease some palms when you go up to that show. You're Frankie Donati, the greaser. You're my grease man.

SPEAKER_11 24:43

It's already decided. It's decided uh a week before the show even.

SPEAKER_10 24:46

Listen, Frank, you got Pullet Heritage Con. You can go up there and kind of change some minds. That or there's gonna be a problem. You let them know.

SPEAKER_11 24:53

You you change this, or you know, like like the pull I had when I did it or when Rob did it, right?

SPEAKER_10 24:58

Don't be the French Canadian Frank. Don't be French or or or what's the word Holland? Where are you from again? Denmark, Denmark? The Danish. Don't be Danish Frank or West Germany Frank. Be Italian, Frank, when you go there, please. Okay, don't be Francois, you can be Frank. I'll be Frank, Frankie Figgs. Frankie Figgs.

SPEAKER_05 25:18

Frankie Figgs.

SPEAKER_10 25:20

All right. So well, we're gonna do this. This is how we're gonna do this. Before we go on to Dave, what we're gonna do is we're gonna try to get a quick ad spot in first before we go ahead. So before we go to Dave and talk about AMPS and AMPS judging, we're gonna go to our first ad spot for squadron.com.

SPEAKER_06 25:39

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SPEAKER_10 26:42

All right, we're back and we're gonna talk to our good friend Dave Vickers here about the Amps National. So just give a little like uh like a heads up on where the show is, when the show is, and then we'll get into talking about the changes that we're gonna see with the judging there.

SPEAKER_09 26:56

Yeah, so uh you know, it when you do these amps international conventions, it's uh it's a big deal uh for amps. It's our one biggest show, and uh it is international. We get guys from all over the place, a few from England and sometimes uh from uh Asia. It's it's really crazy how far people come, but this year it's going to be in South Bend, Indiana. Uh, we've had it there before. Uh we've had several shows there before. So it's nice to be back at a venue with that that worked well for us. It's uh it's a great venue, it's tons of room. You're not like, you know, I hate those model shows where you're like bumping each other's butts, you know, trying to look at models. So it's it's a huge uh venue uh for display and the vendors. There's a lot of vendors, and uh that's gonna go uh Thursday, the 16th of April, until Saturday, the 18th of April. And uh so it's a three-day show, and it wraps up with the awards on Saturday evening, and then everybody has a great time. Of course, at night you'll find everybody out having dinner and socializing and doing all those things that we love to do as modelers.

SPEAKER_10 28:04

As Amps, what we need to do is we figured out a way to make that award ceremony go very, very quickly. You took an award ceremony from like two hours to like 30 minutes, which is amazing. You edited out an hour and a half of that. We we were the amps was able to figure out how to cut out an hour and a half of awards into a half an hour. We also now as a group, we need to figure out how to do that for the general meeting on the Friday night. Cut that thing down to a half an hour. We should actually even do that virtually instead of like at the job, but that's just my opinion.

SPEAKER_09 28:38

Yeah, yeah, and and you know, I I think you know, Neil's working on that, the the president of AMPS. But yeah, what we did with the the award ceremony is and we ended up calling everybody out by name and then all their awards all at once, right?

SPEAKER_10 28:53

Not every category, every model. Oh yeah, we'd be there. It was really it was it was it was labor-intensive, those shows, and then you know what, man? You get into a small like room, unlike South Bend, where you're like like in a little amphitheater in Camp Hill, it's sort of like like a seminar room, and like I shouldn't talk right now because I'm getting extra chunky again, but sitting next to like overweight, smelly old men for too long is not the best thing to do. So you don't think we gotta try to yeah, we don't need that. You you don't really you don't you're not affected by it, Dave, because you're up front talking, you're announced, you're like giving out the awards and giving hard handshakes.

SPEAKER_09 29:31

Actually, I'm probably the the smelliest guy in there because I'm running back and forth giving the damn medals out there.

SPEAKER_13 29:37

The room starts to smell like ass soup real quick, yeah. Really all right.

SPEAKER_10 29:42

So listen, South Bend is a great venue, it's not the best when it comes to distance for me because it's a freaking long trip, it's like a nine-hour drive, so it's not like close, but you also can't be selfish because the people who can go to that show in the middle of the country, it's closer for them. It can't always be like in Camp Hill or things like that for us. Plus, you're in like North Carolina now, so any place is far for you now. Well, we're in Canada, yeah. You're in Canada, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 30:09

Well, and that's exactly why we move them around for venue to venue, is to try to be fair to all of our members. You know, when we do the Midwest show, we get some guys, you know, maybe out on the west coast even, but they're not gonna come all the way to the east coast. So they're not. But then uh after South Bend in 2027, we're gonna be back in Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_10 30:29

Back in Pennsylvania, and my club, the Gotham Amps, that I that I started with Jim Gould, we are the host chapter for that show. Steve Santucci, who's reading his phone right now, will be the he is the coach chair of that show with our good friend Jim Gould. And that got the amps chapter is like a New Jersey, Long Island, lower New York State chapter. So all the New Jersey guys are part of our group. So uh, because we didn't have an Amps group anymore, so that's why we started. It was Long Island, but we changed it to Gotham because it sounded cool, and it's probably the best cool. It's the coolest named Amps chapter. I think Nova Amps is actually pretty cool too, but um Gotham Amps is just as good. I think that's a cool name. So listen, there's a lot of changes. I know that there was we we did something, we as a in the insanity actually did um, well, it was me and Santucci were on with TJ and John Bernani on the Insanity to talk about judging, not just in amps, but in general, right? We had a big discussion after last year's nationals, just talking about judging in general. It wasn't just amps specific, it was IPMS and all like local shows, it was everything. And we just brainstormed and had a great discussion regarding how we felt about judging at these shows. We agreed, we disagreed. I thought it was a great conversation. It caused a lot of discussion on social media. A lot of people kind of messaged, emailed, talked about it and on other threads on Facebook, and it churned up a discussion. And at that discussion that we had, I think was the catalyst for amps to try to come up with these working groups to come up with better ways of maybe how we can improve the rubric, right? The score sheet that we use at AMPS, which was always the point of contention, I will say. So, Dave, just give me the breakdown so we can discuss this and have a conversation about it. The way the rubric was or the score sheet for amps was prior to what's happening now. The so the sheet that we used last year at Amps, it was broken down. How is the point allocation on that sheet? If you can I know you're an expert, you're the cheap judge, so you can rattle this out without looking at a like a cheat sheet right now.

SPEAKER_09 32:37

Well, so there's three areas there's the build, and then there's the finish, and then there's the degree of difficulty. The build is the first part, and that that's your basic model building, and then like I said, that the painting is the second part, and then what was called the degree of difficulty was the one point, which I think that might be the one you're talking about.

SPEAKER_10 33:00

Uh right, the scope of effort.

SPEAKER_09 33:01

Uh yeah, so yeah, we that's one of the changes. We actually changed the name from degree of difficulty to scope of effort, and um you know, we've kept the definition the same.

SPEAKER_10 33:12

Wait, it's still scope of effort today. I thought that was integrated into painting now.

SPEAKER_09 33:16

Uh no, no, no. That was a proposal to get rid of it.

SPEAKER_10 33:20

Uh uh Oh, and it's not going to be getting rid of it.

SPEAKER_09 33:22

No, and that's one thing I I should probably start out with when I'm talking about all these is working groups. We presented sometimes two or three different proposals for a change to fix something. And the e board um made up of the elected folks for amps, then they all voted on what they wanted to do. And of course, my job as chief judge is to enforce whatever those decisions are and institute them and make it happen. So that's one thing, too, is a lot of people are like, Vickers, why did you do this? I don't like that. It's like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm the enforcer, I'm the guy who makes sure that everything is adhered to. But right anyway, back to this whole scope of effort thing. It has been misunderstood. And we hope that by if we talk about it more in the training, which is another thing I'll talk about a little bit later, is um we'll talk about that more so that people get it. Because you know, one of the things when it's degree of difficulty, they're saying, Oh, well, you know, if it's a to me out of the box right model, then that's not gonna get a degree of difficulty. And it's like, well, uh, what if it has a very difficult paint job like paint job camouflage or something? Yeah, you know, so maybe the judge decides not to give him the full point, but certainly might give him a half point. And that that's judging. You're never gonna get out of this uh subjectivity of judges. That's why it's called judging. Right. We can't run a model through the computer, and you know, these are pieces of art, and then we come up with the number.

SPEAKER_10 34:58

Well, that scope of effort point, I think at one point when it was the degree of difficulty point, did actually say in the I guess the caption of that point that it was like aftermarket detail, photo etch, scratch building, things like that, was kind of incorporated in there, and they felt that that was too narrow. They changed it to scope of effort, meaning it could be anything, it could be painting, like you said, intricate weathering, things like that, and try to make it even more to incorporate. The build aside, and I always say the most points in an amp show on the rubric goes right, Frankie Perron, goes to the build, right? Five points goes to the build, four points goes to the painting, weathering and decals and things. Actually, less points go to the painting, really. If you take out the did the fit the decals and the finishing, right? I mean, whatever. But that scope of effort is the one point that actually gives people as a judge the most problems, and that's where your ACJs come into play, I think, when it comes to that point to try to describe a little bit more to people and training, like you said, to talk about training.

SPEAKER_09 36:01

Yeah, you know, my own opinion here is I was of the camp. I want to get rid of it, the degree of difficulty altogether.

SPEAKER_10 36:07

So this I know this one point always has is like a matter of contention with people, and it's something that's I think sticks people sometimes because I think some people who have a really well-done model are losing that point, they're not getting the full point. Models that should be getting the point aren't getting half a point.

SPEAKER_05 36:24

If it's a well done model, I give them the point. Simple as that.

SPEAKER_10 36:28

Right. You know, today, remember, all kits for the most part, a Royfield kit is no different than a Tamiya kit today. Sure. Right? Really isn't.

SPEAKER_05 36:35

If it's a nice model, if it's a nice nice model, they get the scope of everything.

SPEAKER_10 36:38

The funny thing is, is people who've been in the hobby for a long time know what it was like to build certain kits back in the day, like uh, you know, a DML and like Imperial Kit or you know, do building a resin kit or building like an old, you know, um help me out here, Frankie Perona denial. RPM, an RPM, um right. People remember building those kits and it stopped. Right, but today in 2026, most kits, even the kits that we consider maybe the inferior companies, are still well done to a point where the fit is pretty damn good. So that whole Tamir is this, to me is easy, thing needs to go. Matter of fact, I think Tamir kits are actually can be not as good as you think they are as like they once were. So that's my opinion.

SPEAKER_09 37:20

Yeah, I I I would not disagree with that at all.

SPEAKER_10 37:24

So uh but so this is what I'm gonna ask, Dave. So this year, when it comes to like different changes that are gonna happen with the show, when it comes to the judging in particular, um, you do do judges' trainings. I want you to get talk about that as well, as well as table captain trainings or at least meetings, also what we call assistant chief judges, which is there to help you not lose any more hair or get grayer or whatever. They failed. Right. And and you know, and the ACJs do make a difference there. Just talk about a little bit about that, how that's gonna happen this year at the show.

SPEAKER_09 37:57

Yeah, well, um, okay. Uh maybe I'll just kind of walk you through the changes one by one, and we'll just you guys can we'll check it off.

SPEAKER_10 38:05

I got a box here. I got a I got a I got a cheat sheet going, so let's go.

SPEAKER_09 38:09

So probably the the biggest thing that's probably getting the most uh talk about is uh we've instituted a new skill level. So what's happened is if you've been to AMP shows lately, and I I've been going to them forever, it used to be kind of a we had three skill levels, you know, your novice, your intermediate, and you're advanced. And back in the day, way back in Harvard de Grace, there was kind of a balance between those skill levels. Well, over the years, all those models and novice and intermediate have made their way over to advanced. So there's this huge glut of these advanced modelers. Right. Okay, so why do I think that happened? I think there's a number of reasons why that happened. Number one, the guy's been modeling for a long time, and we've had guys in the and the organization for quite a while. Number two, and you just talked about it, Rob, the kits have gotten so much better, and there's so many modeling products that make it uh maybe not easier to do a model, but you have so much more choices and techniques that you can use to get to a high quality representation of what what whatever entry it is you're doing. And I think that the other thing is the internet. I mean, my God, used to we used to just sit in our rooms and you had no one to talk to. You you were just experimenting with you know, and shit.

SPEAKER_10 39:34

Just because there is no one to talk to, and now you can literally talk to the entire products too, the products that are available too, like the weathering and finishing products, yeah, like right, Frankie Donati sitting there scraping pastels on a on a sanding uh piece of sandpaper to get his weathering products now. He's just buying a job, right? Videos on YouTube helping people and stuff like that. So, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_09 39:57

I mean, some of the membership came and said, Hey, look, you know, we we got this glut of advanced modelers, and you know, and the only way you're gonna advance from to from advanced to master is you have to win the best of shell. So we should have a way of recognizing some of these guys that have consistent excellence, right? And so there were a number of proposals a way to do that. I I said, okay, do we want to make it easier for somebody to be a master? Uh that vote was a no. Uh, that it would continue to be the best of show.

SPEAKER_10 40:31

So I'm not a fan of that though. I'm not a fan of the best. I mean, I know that's how it's been, that was never the original intention. Um, but that's a whole nother discussion, maybe we can have after this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

But gotcha.

SPEAKER_09 40:41

Then it was okay. Then I said, okay, well, how you guys want to do it? Here's some proposals. It could be like you have to win three best of whatever number of best of how many gold medals. And it was decided ultimately, with not belaboring the point too long, is that it would be 10 gold medals at the international convention over any period of time. I mean, if somebody brought 10 entries and they all got golds in advance, then they're automatically gonna go into this new expert skill level.

SPEAKER_10 41:15

Right.

SPEAKER_09 41:16

So when we ran the numbers on that database, now our database does not go all the way back to the 90s.

SPEAKER_10 41:22

I think it's 08 they went back to or something.

SPEAKER_09 41:24

Uh yeah, something like 08 or something like that.

SPEAKER_10 41:28

Maybe later than that.

SPEAKER_09 41:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 41:29

You know, I don't enter shows really anymore, and I haven't for a long time. So I've only entered one show in like 10 years. So, like, so for me, if I wanted to enter now, I wouldn't be able to enter as an expert because I don't meet the criteria because I don't have 10 gold medals over the 15-year period that that's the look back, you know.

SPEAKER_09 41:50

Well, the period could be as long as uh forever now, like it could take you 20 years to do it, you know.

SPEAKER_10 41:55

No, I thought that I thought there was a cutoff. I think Chuck Rothman said there was a cutoff, like there was a no cutoff, any amount of time.

SPEAKER_05 42:01

Yeah, but they only have records that go so far back, like you were saying. That's that's the issue. That's right, that's the thing though.

SPEAKER_10 42:06

I think it only cuts off. I think it went back to like 2008 or 2009. I think it might be more than that. I don't know, something like that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_09 42:13

You're in the ballpark, and the thing is, is we even had problems when we did the first list because if a guy spelled his name Thomas as an as a modeler in one show and then he's Tom in another, the database thinks it's another person. So we had to go back and actually look at it and go, Oh shit, that's the same guy. So we kind of screwed up the first list. But the bottom line is we ended up with a little over 35 modelers that are now qualified as the expert skill level.

SPEAKER_10 42:42

I love it. I think it's a great idea. I that's perfect.

SPEAKER_09 42:44

Yeah, and you know, it recognizes excellence, and um expert is a little bit harder than advanced. And I know there was a lot of talk, like, oh, you're so screwed up, and well, I took some heat too. Like, you know, why are you just talking about gold medals? You should be using your your best doves. Well, guess what? A lot of those advanced that got gold medals also got a best of. So right, and the thing is, is if you win 10 gold medals, that shows more consistency than winning uh best doves.

SPEAKER_10 43:13

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_09 43:14

And absolutely, and I could explain that for over a beer if somebody wants to.

SPEAKER_10 43:19

No, I know, and I agree with that. You got to show consistency, that's the thing. Yeah, um, you got to show consistency.

SPEAKER_09 43:25

So when you get into expert, you'll get gold and silver only, and you're judged on the same point spread as advanced. But if your model gets a bronze score, you don't get anything.

SPEAKER_10 43:35

You don't get anything, so just silver and gold for expert and only gold for masters. Correct.

SPEAKER_09 43:40

Now, some of the guys said, Oh, well, you know, if if you're an advanced modeler, you're just gonna get another gold, and who needs another gold? I beg to differ, but I've seen some modelers get bronzes in advanced. Oh, sure. It doesn't happen a whole lot, but it does. Right. So it keeps the modeler at the expected skill level, if you will. Nobody's gonna sandbag and slop something in there and expect to get something.

SPEAKER_10 44:04

Right. There's a lot of good consistent modelers and amps, definitely. You know, listen, I and we're gonna talk about the judging too. And listen, this is gonna be a a candid discussion because there are some issues in all clubs, whether it's amps, IPMS. I just helped judge for models without borders. I just did the armor, and that's done. So by the time this podcast is released, people should be getting notifications on how they did during that models without borders, the armor category. I think was the only one that was left. But there's never ever gonna be a perfect system, Dave. Ever. And you're always gonna have people complain no matter how good or how bad it is. You're right. And there's always gonna be a human element in it. And AMPS as a group, I think, has done a very good job at trying to correct things. I know Neil Stokes, like I said, has been doing a great job as the president to try to institute discussion as a group and also incorporate or get people who are not necessarily part of the e board or the eboard extension, we'll say the people who are non-voting members, to actually have a discussion on how to make things better, not just the judging, but this amps in general, which I think has been good.

SPEAKER_09 45:16

Yeah, and we believe me, we've had a lot of discussions, man. I've had a lot of nights sitting behind this PC on uh Zoom calls and what have you. And uh I I think we have, you know, we try not to be stagnant, but we also want to hold true to our philosophy. And, you know, that is I'll read it verbatim. AMPS judging is a form of peer evaluation and mentoring and not a performance critique by a panel of experts. That's why we have these tally sheets, is why we train all these judges. We have over 350 judges, so they're all peers, they're all peers, and you get feedback. And the goal is we want to keep this hobby alive. We want guys to keep coming, guys and gals, keep coming back to the show. We want them to say, Man, I went to the AM show and I had a blast. I learned a lot. There were great seminars, I learned things, and I got great feedback on my models to be a better modeler later. That's what we're that's what we're all about.

SPEAKER_10 46:12

You want to be judged by your peers. There's no better way to do it, right? And like you said, and we talk about this, and I don't want the other guys to jump in here too. I don't want to dominate this conversation. There tooch is shaking his head. Thanks, Tooch. You want to be judged by your peers. You also want to make sure that, you know, listen, people go to a show, they bring a model, they want to make sure that they're gonna get a fair shake. And obviously, some judges are like I always consider like I don't judge the tables anymore. I haven't done it in quite a few shows. I don't sit at the foretop anymore and judge. Um, I do ACJ for you, Dave. You know, I'll do a shift or two. Yeah, and I like to do that, but I don't sit down and look at models. My eyesight isn't the best without my optimizer, so kind of remove myself from that. But I think that obviously there's some judges like myself who are a lot more forgiven. I'm more of a higher scoring judge as opposed to a lowing scoring junge. Yeah, and you have judges out there that like, I don't give tens to anybody, no matter how good it is, unless it's like totally something that I've that's gonna wow me. And that's the things that I don't like to hear. And then there's also the other end of the spectrum. There's these people that give like like you know, you've seen it, Dave. You get like a six on a score sheet and something, and it's not really a six or a very low score. That's what we want to try to avoid, I think, as a group.

SPEAKER_09 47:28

And I think we do. I and here's how that happens is I might have a new table captain, but my assistant chief judges look at all the scorecards coming off of a model. We all look at them. And then if there's a problem, the ACJ comes to me and goes, Hey Vickers, take a look at this. And we tell we tell the right and field judge training and the table captains, if there is more than a two-point spread between the judges, like if one gives a six and one gives a ten, that's a red flag. Right. We go back to the table and go, uh, what's going on here? Do we have a math error or did somebody just not score this right? What's the deal? I will also say that if I've got like a basic modeler and he's given a score that is uh below a bronze, I'll give that modeler a second chance. And what I mean by that is I will send that model to another judging team. And if they come up with the same score, then they come up with the same score.

SPEAKER_05 48:25

That's a sweet idea. Didn't know that happened like that.

SPEAKER_10 48:28

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:30

I did not know that that was a thing, so that's fine.

SPEAKER_10 48:32

Yeah, they will do that, and I've seen him do it, so he's spot on with that.

SPEAKER_09 48:36

Yeah, we do not let scores fly that have more than a two-point difference. I still have problems with comments, that's one of the things that we're gonna be talking about and judging. Sometimes they even mean it to be constructing, but it's not really like if you tell a basic modeler you have a floating road wheel. Well, basic modeler may not even know what the hell a floating road wheel is, but but even if he does, which wheel is it? Or tell him people what you would do on the model, right? You know, and you don't have a whole lot of time. I mean, you know, each model we we use a standard of about six to eight minutes per model to try to get through the 700 plus entries that we have in two and a half days, but we try to give them that feedback that they can maybe go back and fix that entry for the next show, or if they put in another show somewhere, right? Um, or the next model would be better. And that's part of what we're gonna cover in the new training. Uh, it was actually covered in the old training, but we're trying to condense the training down. Uh, what I heard a lot from the working group is the training's too long, nobody wants to listen to you, Vickers, for an hour. So, okay, we'll try to make it short.

SPEAKER_10 49:40

An hour that they're complaining about an hour?

SPEAKER_09 49:43

Yeah, oh yeah, you know, uh what can I tell you? But I I hear all kinds of things, but uh uh one thing I would tell everybody to do too is we've just put the new training slides up on the AMPS website, and I've also updated all the AMPS rules because we hadn't updated them since 2018 to reflect some of the changes that were going. So brand new, fresh, updated AMPS rules for 2026, they're all there, so that was that was a lot of work too, and got a lot of comments on that. So that's good. We're gonna hold judging sessions too before the show. So this Friday, and I don't know when this is gonna air, but this Friday night I'll be doing a Zoom. I might have this out before Friday.

SPEAKER_10 50:28

So this might be out before Friday. So cool.

SPEAKER_09 50:30

It'll be out by next weekend, but it might be out before Friday, so yeah, and then uh Saturday in the afternoon, I'm doing the same for field judges, and I've asked everybody, everybody, I don't care how long you've been in AMS, how many judging sessions you've done, to take the training. So what we're trying to do is level the playing field, and everybody will have had the same training. Because some of the things I've heard is that, oh, well, you know, some of these judges, they last time they took the training was like 12 years ago, and they really don't know what the hell they're talking about now, which I don't really agree with that, but okay. On the assumption that's true with everybody taking the training, then it everybody should be on the same playing field.

SPEAKER_05 51:12

So was there like a a certificate or something that you could print out that says you've done the training? You know what I mean? Like shows that you've actually done it.

SPEAKER_09 51:19

So I actually have a master list of all the different judges, my field judges, my table captains, my assistant chief judges, but it doesn't show when they actually took the training. So yeah, when everybody takes this training for 2026, there'll be a check block that they took the the training in 2020.

SPEAKER_10 51:38

You get a pen for your lanyard too. I got the pens.

SPEAKER_05 51:41

Yeah, at least there's some sort of vetting going on at that point. You know what I mean? That's the good thing because it's like we've said before, you know, you just walk out and off the street, judge, right?

SPEAKER_10 51:51

You can, and that's the thing, like it's rare, right? It's rare, but you can.

SPEAKER_09 51:56

You can, and I only do that in desperate situations, guys. Like, if it's a Saturday afternoon and it's like 10 o'clock in the morning, and I know I got an award show coming up in about six hours, and I've got a hundred models still left to judge. I'm not turning away, folks, because you'd be sitting there till eight or ten o'clock at night waiting for the award ceremony.

SPEAKER_10 52:17

No, no, that's it is true. It definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_09 52:20

Now, usually what will happen is if somebody hasn't judged before, what we ask them to do is to shadow somebody. So they don't actually judge, but they'll sit in a chair behind the judging team and watch it. And I've done that with young kids that have gone there with their dad. Uh, you know, we don't let them judge, but we'll let them sit behind their dad and and listen and learn.

SPEAKER_10 52:40

I love that though. I love that when that happens, though. I think that's the best too. That's what this group is about. Come sit with me and Frank, me and the Franks, man.

SPEAKER_05 52:48

We fucking never that shit out.

SPEAKER_10 52:50

Will Tuoch's son we used to do that at a couple of like the regional shows? Will would sit down and with other gentlemen to touch, but it would what that's how he learned. Two of mine, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 53:00

Yeah, and then you know, and I'll get guys going, okay, this doesn't look so hard. I'm gonna go take the training and then uh, you know, I'll come back next year. I'm like, that's that's beautiful. That's what we want. Uh another thing I should talk about the judging because it did come up is uh this whole idea of well, you know, I got screwed because I only had three judges judging my model instead of four. The way AMPS works is the four judges do their scores and the low score gets knocked out. If you're judged by three modelers, three guys, then there's no low score that's that's dropped out. Now I've heard the argument that, well, that's not fair. I should have four judges instead of three. I don't really know where that comes from because honestly, you could actually get a better score or maybe not a worse score. But talking with the e board, I said, okay, guys, do you want me to stop doing three-person judging teams? Because I will, but know that there could be a cost to that. And they said, No, continue to do that, but only if you need to. And where it usually hits me is uh for some reason I have a hard time getting diorama and vignette.

SPEAKER_10 54:03

Yeah, because people don't want to judge it, you know.

SPEAKER_09 54:06

Yeah, nobody wants to judge them, and but we have a tremendous amount of those entries, so so I gotta judge them somehow.

SPEAKER_05 54:13

Not only that, but you said a two a two-point spread is a red flag, right? So could be, yeah, that's right. I mean, yeah, that kind of takes away from that fourth person as well, right? Like it's it does, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 54:25

So I scratch my head over that, and I have a lot of discussion with modelers about that. So so that's that.

SPEAKER_08 54:33

You know, Dave, as a table captain, and Rob and Frankie can attest to this. We've always tried to keep the point differential within a point and a half, not as far as two points. If we got anything point and a half or above, we went back and looked at the model and looked at the discrepancies to see what we have missed, or you know. The other thing was is that we don't usually all three or four of us don't take a half a point or a point off for the same issue that may arise from it. I agree.

SPEAKER_10 55:04

I know they were gonna say that even like they like they want it to be consistent. So if there's a road wheel error, they're saying it should be a road wheel error for everybody, right? Because if you're only taking half like I I know that we talked about that, but let me caveat this a little bit.

SPEAKER_09 55:17

So, okay, there's a road wheel that's not touching. One judge may see that as a half point, another may see it as a full point. That's fine, but you don't divvy up the corrections like, oh, well, I'll gig them on the road wheel and you gig them on the the barrel that's missing that got a seam on it, or whatever. Every judge sees it the way they see it because the aggregate score reflects all three judges of what they're seeing. Yes, individuals. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:47

Right. So are you gonna all write the same comment on the sheet though as feedback? Your road wheels fucked. That's why you lost a mark. Your road wheels fucked. That's why you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_09 55:56

So that's usually where the discussion will come in. It'll be like, hey, uh, and this is a table captain kind of thing where okay, hey uh Chris or George, you talk about the road wheel, I'll talk about the seam on the barrel and what have you. So at least the Mahler's got feedback on all the issues that the team found. Okay. That's the way we try to do it.

SPEAKER_08 56:14

I'm glad I brought that up to clarify it for a lot of people too. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 56:18

And that's one of the things we're gonna be talking about in the training.

SPEAKER_10 56:20

I can understand the rationale behind it, but when it comes to the way the rubric is, you're supposed to. I was originally under the thought that that should be like that. But you when you're thinking more about it, Dave is right though. You really if it's a road wheel error or an error or a track is canted, or there's a build error like seam somewhere, glue mark somewhere, it's got to be a glue mark for everybody because then the modeler is never gonna learn to fix those things, then too.

SPEAKER_05 56:45

That's true. But what happens if one of the judges didn't see that until another judge pointed it out?

SPEAKER_09 56:51

Well, that's the discussion that you have at the table, too, about well, then I would say if the other judge doesn't see that, then that's the benefit to the modeler, and the error's already been called out by another judge. But you may have a difference of opinion. I've seen discussions of is that really a mold seam or is that not a mold seam? And one guy goes, That's definitely a mold seam, and the other guy's going, No, it's not. That is not a mold seam.

SPEAKER_05 57:14

Yeah, that's how Riff tries to get me all the time. Look at those fucking seam lines. I'm like, nah, here's the picture.

SPEAKER_10 57:18

Listen, Dave, you know, I'm a builder by it's just the way I look the modeling, is building is the most important thing to me. And I have a keen eye for that as a builder, right? So, and I'm familiar with I build a lot of different models, and I'm familiar with a lot of different subjects. So, you know, I'm able to spot issues with things, but I always try to give the benefit of the doubt to the modeler. And especially when I did judge at the foretop, um, and I'm the head judge at our IPMS show that's going to be in a couple weeks in Long Island, the IPMS show. I always try to give the benefit of the doubt to the model. That's the type of judge I always was. Unfortunately, and for some people who do judge at amps, they judge the wrong way, right? They start at 10 and they go backwards. They're trying to find problems right away instead of looking at the good things, right? A model is earning as you're looking. They're not losing as you're going. The score dictates what the medal is. You're not supposed to say, well, you know what? We this guy's got a gold. I don't know if this is a gold. I, you know, we got to take a half a point off somewhere else because this, I don't think this is a gold. They will have that talk. And the thing is, is I I always I tell people, you do your rubric, the rubric dictates the score. It doesn't matter if they're a beginner, intermediate, or advanced modeler. You score it like it's supposed to be, and then the score is gonna dictate what metal they get in that particular skill level. Am I right about that or am I right?

SPEAKER_09 58:34

Rob, you hit the nail on the head. As a matter of fact, a couple of guys in a working group thought it'd be a great idea to put the metal scoring spread on the judging tables. And I said, absolutely not. No, because you are not judging to the point spread on something like, oh, we can't give this a gold. The score speaks for itself, right? If that judges see it that way, then that's the way they see it.

SPEAKER_10 58:58

That's the one thing that I want that to be emphasized. I that's the most important thing to me.

SPEAKER_05 59:03

And one of the hard things about it is like so you get a novice. What are you allowed to, or what should you be letting slide that you wouldn't as you go up in the in the skill levels, right? A lot. Oh, there's three mold lines. That's still okay. Build gets a five still.

SPEAKER_10 59:19

Well, you're not gonna get okay. So three mold lines is not like there's gonna be three points taken away because there's three of them. You got to use your discretion on how many points you want to remove. Like for a beginner, you know, the build is not gonna be as good as an advanced modeler, it's just not gonna be unless they shouldn't be a beginner. You know, you see a model and they go in as a beginner, and they're like, you know, Dave, as the chief judge has the discretion to maybe find that person and say, Listen, you know, you can go in as an intermediate because you are not a beginner modeler, and they have that discretion. And it depends, most of them like, nah, I'll stay in as beginner because they don't, it's not really getting a good idea.

SPEAKER_05 59:52

And I mean, like, literally, I've judged at nationals twice now, lots of judging, and I didn't really run into any beginner modelers.

SPEAKER_10 1:00:02

Very little, there's not a lot, yeah. Yeah, they've said it's becoming very top heavy now, too, in that group.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:09

So yeah, yeah. But that's what we asked the table captains. The first thing they should do is you know, read what the model is and then say what the skill level is. So that puts you in the right mindset when you're judging. Right. You're gonna be far less lenient within an advanced modeler than you are an intermediate or a basic. Uh, and again, you know, I always ask people, like, if you've got a basic modeler, think about when you first started out, it could be your first amp show. Do you want to absolutely slaughter a guy so that he never comes back to that show again?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:38

That's where I was getting at with that line of questioning was like, you know, how far do you go? Because at some point you're actually helping them as well, or you you think you are, right?

SPEAKER_09 1:00:48

Yeah, well, you really help a basic modeler is in your comments where you go, you know, hey, you should pay more attention to your track alignment. The left track is, and you may only deduct a half point, but an advanced modeler, boy, that boof, that that'd be a killer.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:04

Yeah, you're out fucking bronze. No, just kidding.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:09

Yeah, it's that bad.

SPEAKER_10 1:01:11

I think someone's skill level or how good a person is a modeler doesn't always dictate them to be a good judge, right? Sometimes, yeah, how can you say it? I think that yes, some really experienced modelers do make very good judges, but also on the flip side, it can also be the a problem because this like when the subjectivity comes into a lot of and it's always the like we talked about this, Frankie Prawn, and this is where you're gonna come in, Frankie, about your particular model. The subjectivity of somebody does play a factor, but when it comes to certain things, I think it can kill a model that can be in contention, especially the nationals, where somebody has a very, very good solid model done very well, technically built, technically well, scratch like scratching or you know, extra half the mark, whatever. Marking's down great, great paint job, and they're losing a half a point or a point because there's like, oh well, I think the mud's a little too much on the tracks. Like, that's bothers me. And Frankie, this is where you're gonna come in because I want you to tell your story here.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:15

Yeah, no, the uh the judging comments and the point losses on my JSU 152 were subjective in the sense, or at least I feel correct me if I'm wrong. They said, well, the vehicle was in Berlin, so the mud would have been knocked off the tracks at that point, and it's you know, too much mud. And you know, I get what they're saying, and that's fine because we're all different, we all look at things differently. But I just thought that was a little subjective on a specific area of the vehicle, right?

SPEAKER_10 1:02:47

They took a well a point and a half because everybody took a half a point away, correct.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:51

But again, accuracy is not supposed to be a thing, right? So that that would fall under accuracy, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:58

And I didn't present it in a scene, I just presented it with the observation of Berlin 1945. That's all I said. So it could have been in a park in Berlin, it could have been in uh, you know, it could have been anywhere.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:09

It drove through a field at some point to get to Berlin.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:12

So though those kind of comments will draw my attention or the ACJs if we see it. And uh I I can't speak for the Atlanta guys, but uh I was there too, and uh I had some comments on my model that and I had a chance to talk with one of the judges afterwards. It didn't make a difference with my entry, but I was concerned because I didn't want it to happen to another modeler. Right. I do these big build things and I do my references and I even show the front of the book and the page of where I got it, you know, because I'm just ingrained to do that research, right? And get the half research point. And I noticed on all three of my entries I got no points. And I'm like, what happened? So it finally came clean. They said, you know, well, your paperwork was behind your entries, so we didn't look at your your paperwork. And I was like, Oh, that's not good.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:10

Um that that's so that's a reason to fucking not give you the point when you did the work? Well, they didn't read it, apparently, correct? Yeah, well, fuck that. Then they should have just automatically given you the point.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:20

Yeah, and those subjective comments like uh that uh you had on yours. Uh I had one, it made me actually kind of laugh on my tiger. Uh, I had it on a Russian road, which you know, the terrain is very flat in Russia. If you look at those pictures, it looks like a pool table almost with snow on each side of the road. So that that's kind of the way I made it. And uh one of the comments was, Well, we felt like you you rushed your terrain, and we couldn't tell if it was melting snow for or if it was freezing mud. And I'm kind of like, Well, isn't that kind of the same thing if it's right in the middle? I mean, that's awful subjective.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:59

Were you in vignette, or did the base even fucking matter? I was in vignette. Oh, you're in vignette. Okay.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:05

But I'm like, that that's a silly comment. It's if the mud isn't well done or the snow's not well done, but this idea of what was we couldn't figure out what the temperature was.

SPEAKER_11 1:05:16

I'm like, that's just it just kind of blew my mind. That's taking subjectivity to the nth degree, which I I disagree with. I've seen some comments like that, like Frankie's. You know, we had a guest on our live stream, and you know, he was a tanker in Afghanistan, and he's like, Well, I put mud on it, even though you're in the desert, you still get mud every once in a while, and the tranks will show up in the middle of a city with mud on it. Like, I mean, we've all got, for instances, but when you see comments like that, I agree, Dave, that's a headshaker. Worse even than well, I didn't look at your research, so I'm not gonna give you the point, even though like I can see the paperwork. But to say, you know, well, I couldn't tell if it was freezing rain or if it was sleet, that goes too far. And that and I appreciate when you have your ACJs and your guys there to do it. Just like the last time that the three of us, I mentioned Rob and Frank, when we did judging, and you know, you came to us with a couple of builds that you wanted us to look at. And one of them was from a friend of ours, and we let you know we know who did this, and you're like, Yeah, well, this is a tough one.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:22

That was fucking the little baby cannon.

SPEAKER_11 1:06:25

Little baby canon. And we're you know, but full disclosure, we know who made it, so you know, we will be as unbiased as humanly possible. If you're okay with it, you were happy with it, and and we judged it accordingly and happily to help you out with that at any time.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:39

I mean, too, like if we knew that if they had paperwork that went with it, one of us grabbed the paperwork, whoever the paperwork guy was. Yeah, flip through that and and have a look and see if they you know did a little put some effort into it. If they put some effort into it, then they get the point done, moving on.

SPEAKER_10 1:06:55

The research point is another point of contention to use the word. It is definitely something that one table might give the point, and another table might not give the point. And that's the other thing. And I know that Frankie Perona, even the Frankie Donati and Rob wanted to talk about that actual research point because it's important. Now, again, it's not a point by every judge, it's just one point added to the score at the end of the judging itself.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:18

0.5. 0.5, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:21

0.5. So if it's a 28, you get a 28.5. If it's a you know, whatever, uh added at the end. So, but I know it is a problem, though. Dave, so the question was this, though, too. We asked right before we went live, was the criteria of what would be considered the research for it. Like, is it has to be particular exact vehicle markings, or could it be something from a particular time frame that doesn't have to be a little bit more than a little bit the general overall, like this is the vehicle, this is what it can do, blah blah blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:49

In the interest of time, I would tell you to go and read the AMPS judging rules because it will lay out for you what's accepted and not accepted. Now, again, the the same with the degree of difficulty discussion we've had, we've had some people not understand what constitutes the point five for the reference. And we've had some people give the point when they shouldn't have. Like, hey, I got this off the internet and they have a picture, but the internet's pretty damn big. So you have to look at it. Would a modeler know where to go to find that same information? Right. So, you know, it said, I got it off this website, and if they give the URL, that's great. And then they have the picture, okay, that's good. But we also provide in the judging rules, there's a couple of appendices in the back that actually give you examples of good qualifying reference half points, how to do it. There's one of the working group guys, a couple of them actually said, Well, why don't we come up with a standard form? And then that was like, No, no, that's too hard. And we got into a big discussion about this. So we decided to leave it the way it is with the examples to give some leeway. And this is something that only the table of captain is the one who awards the point five. The field judges do not. So this is something we're gonna concentrate with the table captains and make absolutely sure they know. And I will tell you, sometimes the table captains will come to my ACJ or sometimes even me and go, Hey, does this thing qualify for the half point? Again, I wanted to completely get rid of it.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:25

Yes, I think it should be gone personally.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:28

But again, I lost that battle and we're gonna keep it. And it does have some good points. I mean, we're supposed to be the armor modeling and preservation society, so you know. You know, so we should be learning about the things that we're modeling if we care about the preservation and the history of them. So I I see that's that side of the coin too of keeping it.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:51

But what if you're building something that you know it could be a what if or something that it only exists in a museum, it was never put in the field, you know, like those uh those DOS work uh guns that they put out there, the little guns, you know what I mean? I will I got a perfect 30 there, but how how am I gonna show you research on that? There is no research besides what it says in the instruction.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:12

You can on a what if unless you pulled it off like some sci-fi website or something like that, or or like the Mac stuff, you could go, you could point to even the box art and say, Hey, this is a this is a what if I copied the box art and off of this kit, blah blah blah. And then maybe we would. But yeah, that's a problem when you get into the what if.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:32

Yeah, it it it it becomes an issue, right? Because it's like there is no research to do on it. Right. Yet I'm still allowed to enter it, so you don't even bother because you're screwing yourself. You you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_08 1:10:43

Like I'm building a uh vehicle right now that actually was built, they built two or three of them, ran them through testing success successfully, and the war ended. So they never went in production, but they you know, they were actually built, they ran them through testing and they passed all the the qualifications. The only reason they didn't make it because World War II ended a month later. So, how would that fall, Dave?

SPEAKER_09 1:11:05

I would say even if you don't have a a photo of it, if you can say that hey, look, no photos of this thing existed, but uh in this book uh by this author and this chapter, it talks about these two or three vehicles that were made. They know that they were based on this chassis, or give some sort of narrative that how you arrived at that model based on your research. I would think that you're all photographs and there's plenty written about them.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:33

So that wouldn't be a what if that would be an actual actual vehicle, yeah, because you researched it, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:40

I mean, I I researched a mark five, right? I did the Mark V. I researched and I put three pages together. I think it was three pages, right, Frankie? Something like that. Yeah, just about a mark five, because I didn't build a particular Mark V, it was just a mark five, and I didn't get no points for it.

SPEAKER_10 1:11:57

And you used that as your research because you did do the full interior, and right, and you did a great job. You probably would have been in contention for a best of, but you got knocked a point because one of the people said that you didn't put a part on that should have been there, and then they realized after the show when they saw pictures of it that you did have it there, and that person actually had the whole table take a point off because of it, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:19

Yep, and then when he was looking through his photos afterwards, he actually did reach out to me and apologize because he knew he fucking screwed me.

SPEAKER_10 1:12:29

I don't know if you remember, Dave. Yours didn't make the magazine because I did take pictures of it. Did it make the magazine that pick that model or no? No, but it was it was a mark, it was that mark five that had like the sides off, and then they were magnetic, and you can see the whole interior. He did a really good job of that. Yeah, I remember that. That was cool. He did a really he did a really good job job. Yeah, that was mine. That was awesome. We're bombarding you, Dave, with some good questions here. You know, we can't we're prepared here. Oh, we're gonna give you a hard time. This is even the hard, these aren't the hard questions yet. We still got an hour, we're gonna bombard you here.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:00

No, but these are good questions for everybody to hear and understand to add to their builds or to maybe understand what they're entering, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:09

Yeah, sure. And there's no better guy to answer them than Mr. Dave.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:13

That's right. How's the lighting gonna be at this? And are we are we in the same judging area as last time?

SPEAKER_09 1:13:19

Uh yeah. Uh the blessing we have is at least we have uh better LED lights over the tables.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:29

I thought they should have moved the judging to the like the little I wouldn't, whatever you call it, the little area outside where you can eat and just have that like sectioned off and have that to where the judges were outside because not only that, but it's just really good airflow because it was really and they do provide you a table light and a flashlight. You don't want to use flashlights, man. You don't, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:49

Dude, remember Frankie, Frank and Frank? Oh fuck, we were pissed with this one table. That's all they did. They were like, find a bigger flashlight. We tried, we couldn't.

SPEAKER_09 1:13:58

Years ago, I don't know if you guys know we went to the show, but we did one that was at a private armor museum, it's defunct now, but the lighting was all that real yellow fluorescent stuff. Yeah, oh god, it was horrible. It threw off all the colors. You couldn't even tell what colors things were. It was so bad. But so we tried to get better lights on the tables at least.

SPEAKER_10 1:14:22

All right. So, Dave, any other changes with the judging this year when it comes to like a criteria or a category that you that or like changes like in the the way judging's gonna happen for the show?

SPEAKER_09 1:14:33

Uh categories are the same. The the big thing is to get all the judges trained, hopefully at the show or before with the zoom calls. Matter of fact, we have over uh I think we're up to 60 or 75 people for the zoom calls. So that's a that's a good start, you know. But uh those were those were mostly there's some minor things like I two new best stuff, though, this year, right?

SPEAKER_10 1:14:55

Artillery and sci-fi, right? Uh oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:58

Uh sorry about that. Yeah, that is uh something. And this is something I'll I should I probably should talk about too is we really want to try to get younger modelers, and we're no dummies. We know that kind of where it's at with the young modelers right now is with the sci-fi, particularly with Gundam and uh I can never pronounce it right, machine and machine and Gregor. Yeah, thank you. Just say M AK. Uh but so we're trying to lead get them over to the dark side eventually because they think our stuff's cool, and a lot of times they haven't even seen it. But I don't know if you've noticed, but uh our hair keeps getting whiter and we all keep getting balder, and we don't have any young guys coming behind us, and that's very concerning to me.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:42

And hold on, you also want to talk about there's something going on with the hatches in the show, right? The open hatches now when it comes to a model that has an open hatch.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:50

Yeah, that's that's the only really the only big thing that I wanted to touch on because that was a I don't know how something that small got such a big discussion, but it sure did.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:59

Yeah, well, didn't you have to enter it in full interior if it was open or something like that?

SPEAKER_09 1:16:04

Well, so yeah, you had to if a hatch was open and you didn't have a figure or anything, it had to go into the open hatch category, you know, and then you got dinged if there wasn't anything in there. And a lot of people disagreed with that. They said, you know, it's my model. If I want to build interior, fine, I don't, but if I enter it in close top and I have a hatch that's open, just don't judge anything that's inside the tank, period. So that's what was decided on is that um it no longer matter of fact. We used to have some guys are being kind of snarky, they would just paint an uh they just have an unpainted figure and they would just stick it in a hatch just so they could have it in closed top, you know. But you don't even need to do that now. The training to the modelers to the judge to field judges is ignore anything on the inside if it's an open hatch and it's in closed top. Obviously, if it's an open hatch and you have an open hatch, which you should, uh then everything's gonna be judged that can be seen on the inside of that hatch. That makes sense. Yes, I think that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:15

I kind of agree that if you're gonna have a hatch open, you should be able to see something inside. Yeah, close hatch. But the the the way IPMS does it, it's really shitty. Like you're automatically stuck into vignette or some some fucking thing where it it's not even a not even a thing. You know what I mean? Like who cares?

SPEAKER_09 1:17:34

Yeah. Well, and you know, since we're on that subject, one of the my complaints about IPMS is uh at a lot of the shows that you don't have a vignette category, you only have diorama. And it says right in the IPMS rules that storyline is everything. So if you've done beautiful groundwork and you got like a uh great crew that you painted up on top of your tank, it's got to go in diorama, and if it doesn't have a story, it gets killed. That's exactly why we came up with the vignette category for amps. That was me because I'm a diorama guy, and sometimes I do vignettes that don't necessarily have a story. I'm like, we should be recognizing the work that these guys are doing, and vignette category is one of the most popular categories now at amps. Uh, it just took off like I I've never seen. And I love it, I think it's great. I I because I want the modlers. How many times before we had that where we'd be looking at a tank and we go, man, that tank's beautiful, but god, look how nice the figures are in the groundwork, and we're not even supposed to be judging that. So I'm glad that they've got an option to do that now, and it's worked out great.

SPEAKER_10 1:18:41

Anything else you want to talk about, Dave, before we kind of move on and wrap this the AMPS discussion up? Anything else you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_09 1:18:48

Well, I I just want to again, I just want to thank you guys for having me on and being able to talk about these changes. And again, there were other proposals. Uh, but what I would tell all the AMPS members too is hey, if you're not happy about something, first thing go back and read the rules because you may not even be understanding what the rules are. So once you read the rules, and if you still got a great idea and you're like, you know, I don't agree with this, that's why you're a member. You're a member of organization. You don't have to be on the e board or whatever. Talk to me or talk to someone. I mean, you can get a hold of all of us right on the right through the website, and we'll listen. Um, because it takes all of us in this organization to run the show and to judge it and to be fair. And yeah, not everybody likes everything, nobody ever is, but but we try to make the playing field as level as we can for all the skill levels of the modelers.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:45

And I'm not gonna lie, Dave, I learned a couple things today about AMP's rules that I didn't know before, and we've had many, many, many discussions about them. I'm pretty fluent in them, but uh I did learn a couple things today, so I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:58

Sweet.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:59

So I will take the uh I will take the judging um whatchal training as well.

SPEAKER_10 1:20:06

Great, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'll retake everything. This Friday night, right?

SPEAKER_09 1:20:11

Friday night's the first session via Zoom, and uh you can get the link. Just go on the website and they'll send the link to you. And or if you can't make that on Saturday afternoon at one, this is East East Coast Standard Time uh on these times. And then uh and then at the show we'll have field judge too. I think Thursday and Friday evening we're doing that.

SPEAKER_10 1:20:31

Great, great, excellent, excellent. Yeah, maybe I'll jump on like the 48 and 48, and I'll say this now. The 48 and 48 is gonna be this this upcoming weekend. Uh, this should be dropping before the weekend of the 20th, the 21st. So the 48 and 48 auction charity auction um is gonna be taking place this weekend. On uh there'll be stream yards, it's on the 48 and 48 YouTube channel, and there's gonna be auctions and great products. James Skiffins, obviously, from just making conversation, right? Justin, Scott Gentry and I think Scott Samo and Nemo is gonna be doing the hosting for the North American stream. I guess James Skiffins and uh Malcolm and those guys are doing the Europe, the UK stream and uh Goldfinch and those crazy Aussies and all those other guys. Callum, our good buddy Callum from the Micro Machines podcast, is gonna be doing over there that uh Australian New Zealand stream, which I should be getting on that Australian stream as well as the North American stream at some time. Point. But Dave, this was great. I really appreciate you having this conversation. You're staying on for the rest of the show. We got a couple other things we want to do. We're gonna talk the hobby. We got some upcoming shows we want to talk about. But before we get to all that, what we're gonna do is we're gonna go to our next ad spot for guideline publications in Military Modelcraft International.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:53

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SPEAKER_10 1:23:10

All right, we're back. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna do upcoming shows, and this might be out of date order because I just want to talk about the Amps National show first that Dave just spoke about, but we'll just do the official upcoming show here. So again, the Amps 2026 International Convention will be Thursday, April 16th to Saturday, April 18th. It's at the Century Center 120 Dr. MLK Jr. Boulevard in South Bend, Indiana, 46601. As of right now, it's 31 days out from that show. And the theme award is Vietnam. The theme is Vietnam, right? And what Dave said was there's two new best of this year. Joey Andriano. And we also have Best Sci-Fi. So there's gonna be two new best ofs that'll be in the show. I will be there. I originally didn't think I was gonna make it, but I will be there with Justin. Tooch is not gonna make it because Tooch has another obligation um for other things that he does, as well as Frankie and Rob won't be there at the show. The Insanity will have our podcast table there. So we will have the mics and uh our podcast table at the show.

SPEAKER_13 1:24:19

I got some new swag, I got buttons. You got buttons?

SPEAKER_10 1:24:23

I got buttons. I gotta get I gotta order chips and I gotta order some new stickers. So we will have a lot of merch to give away. No shirts yet again. I know we gave out a lot of shirts, but we probably won't have any shirts for this show. But hopefully after this, we'll have some shirts for people. People keep asking for more shirts. We might have some new design shirts coming up. So again, so that's Amps National. So we will be there. It's gonna be a lot of fun, okay? Frankie, you want to read a couple of yours really quick?

SPEAKER_11 1:24:48

Yeah, sure. So big one for us up here in north of the 49th is uh HeritageCon, biggest show in the country. So that's March 29th in uh Hamilton at the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum, uh, Mount Hope, Ontario. So that's on that Sunday. Great venue. Mr. Adams has been with me. Uh, he knows how much fun it is to be there.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:08

Yeah, I'm having some bad FOMO already. Yeah, I hear you.

SPEAKER_11 1:25:12

So um I'll be there from the podcast. Yeah, the scale model podcast is there. Sometimes uh one or two members from the Geeks, uh the uh Mojo shows up. So uh we'll see. It's all right.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:22

I think Mojo's gonna be there for sure. I'm pretty sure that's on their docket. So they'll they'll be there again.

SPEAKER_11 1:25:27

Next show is uh we got the wine and country model expo that's at the uh Petaluma Community Center, I guess I'm pronouncing it right, 320 North McDowell Boulevard, Petaluma, California, uh April 11th. Now, the organizers wanted us to let people know they're intentionally structured a bit differently from traditional shows. There's an open uh evaluation format, but they're also using an exhibition-style display approach where all of each modeler's work is grouped together on the table and the modeler clearly identified with a name placker. The goal they want is to encourage more conversation, learning, and connection. So I told uh the organizer, James, to get back to me and let me know how that went. We're really interested to hear how their show went.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:12

So again, that's oh yeah, that sounds like a cool idea for sure.

SPEAKER_10 1:26:15

That's sort of like that's sort of like um like Rocky Mountain was their inspiration.

SPEAKER_11 1:26:20

Rocky Mountain show, right, yeah. So that's one country model expo down in California. And then uh for me, finally, BufCon 41 scale model show Sunday, April 12th, 2026, at the Knights Events Center at 2735 Union Road, Chicawaga, New York. Outside of Buffalo theme award, spirit of 76. 41 years, man. Big show, always a good turnout. I'm hoping to try to make it to that one. I doubt it, but uh, we'll see what's going on. But uh for more information, you go to their website, they've got uh tons of contact info. Just do a search on BuffCon. That's it for me, Robbie.

SPEAKER_10 1:26:58

All right, so they're gonna jump around just a little bit. So then I gotta just do this show. This is my local IPMS show. I'm the head judge and do the MCing at that show. And that's Replicon33, and it's on March 28th from 9 to 4, and it's at the Freeport Rec Center on 130 East Merrick Road in Freeport, New York, 11520, and uh is at a region one show. Of course, it's hosted by the Long Island Scale Model Society, and the contact person is my good friend, Mr. Jim Belukas. So I will be at that show again. That's March 28th, and the other show that there's two more shows we got I want to tell talk about. The other is Mosquito Con, which is the week after Replicon, which is April 4th from 9 to 5. It's at the Wayne PAL on 1 PAL Drive in Wayne, New Jersey, 07470. And it's a region 2 MIDI show, and it is the New Jersey chapter. And like I said, wow, Bill Schwartz, that guy still walking uh around, God bless. And you know what? I gotta say this, man. My good friend Vinny Delesio passed away. I just On Facebook, and he was such a great man, and he was a part of this Jersey chapter. He was a part of Amps 2. I don't know if you knew him, Dave. If you know Vin, you've probably seen him, you'd probably recognize him.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:28:11

He was a really great guy. I loved him dearly. Um, I used to really look forward to seeing him. I'm getting a little emotional. I used to really like seeing him at shows. I used to he was very big, he was a big supporter of mine, always encouraged me to do different things and more things. Uh, he was just a great man, and uh, I always look forward to going to the MosquitoCon to see him over at that raffle table and break his chops a little bit. And he's not going to be there this year. And he is a big loss to this hobby. He's just a great man.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:37

Girl to hear, man.

SPEAKER_10 1:28:39

Yeah, he was a great guy, Vinny. All right, so again, that's that's MosquitoCon. And then the last one I need to talk about is from my good buddy Ron Hogue up in Vermont. And you know Ron Hogue, Dave. Ron Hogue up there with those Vermont guys. So this is for Canam Con 2026, and it's on April 11th from 9 to 5, and it's at the Williston Armory on 7846 Williston Road in Williston, Vermont, 05445, and it's a region one northeast show. And again, the contact person is Ron Hogue. And Ron, because I said your show, I expect a nice PBA card from the chief of police saying, Please forgive my friend Rob Riv for speeding and let him go, please. I'm his good friend, I'm chief of police Ron Hogue. All right, so if you can do that for me, we'll be square.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:28

There's no wheel greasing going on, man.

SPEAKER_10 1:29:30

Yeah, he's I gotta grease the things. So we'll do that. So that's a lot of upcoming shows, a little out of order date wise, but we got them all in there. And what we're gonna do is we're gonna have a little fun. So let's just do no new kits. We don't do that anymore. People got bored by new kits in the news because by the time that things change, everything's out. So let's talk about what's on the bench. Let's talk about the hobby. I'll know some of you guys have been doing very good with on the bench, some people have been very disappointing, Mr. Rob Adams.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:57

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_10 1:29:58

Some people haven't been really participating in the hobby, Mr. Steve Santucci. But let's talk about what's on our bench. So, you know, we're gonna go to our main guest, which is Mr. David Vickers. So, Mr. Vickers, you're always working on something because you sent me a lot of in-progress picks. So I know you're working on a lot of things right now. So, what do you currently got on the bench?

SPEAKER_09 1:30:17

It is my largest 116th diorama ever. A 116th diorama.

SPEAKER_10 1:30:23

Yeah, he goes crazy, man. He's got yeah, yeah. Come on.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_10 1:30:26

That's why they couldn't get his research thing from beyond the taiga. It's just so big.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:31

So it's got an M4A3E8, uh, that wonderful new kit that's out with a lot of goodies on that, with some uh great stuff by Steel Put Studios. Uh the the gear that he's putting out and everything, I encourage everybody if you're doing 116th, that's some really good stuff. But uh it's also got uh Jeep that I'm fixing up as a recon Jeep. Yeah, I'm doing another Jeep, Rob. I know you gave me shit about that. Last time I was on the TACOM Jeep? Yeah, the TACOM Jeep, but it's converted to uh a radio Jeep, so that's pretty cool. But I just got the uh there's a French barn in the background. I just got that done. Uh well, that was job.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:10

But how big is this thing then? What's big, man?

SPEAKER_09 1:31:14

It's uh 18 by 24 inches.

SPEAKER_10 1:31:18

Well, you did do a 16-scale Abrams as well on a little vignette, didn't you?

SPEAKER_09 1:31:22

Yeah, that was my tank from that.

SPEAKER_11 1:31:25

Yeah, I think it's any bigger, Dave. You're gonna have to wear a truss when you bring it to the show.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:30

Yeah, I I actually started thinking about because I was trying to get my tiger to the show I just bought, and that was one sixteenth, and that damn thing's heavy. And I thought to myself, well, shit, this one's gonna be bigger. Yeah, I'm getting older too.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:43

Man, what do you do? You got an SUV, then I guess, to get these things to the show, or what?

SPEAKER_09 1:31:48

Uh, this one I will I'll need one because I don't think it's gonna fit my Toyota Camry. I don't think it's gonna be a good one. No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:54

That's no, it ain't yeah, but it's gonna take me about another six or eight months.

SPEAKER_10 1:32:00

So that's what's on the bench for me. Well, you churned out that Tiger One pretty fast from like blueprint to like the from when it was done. Like you're like, wow, I was like, You got this done fast. Like you just like had it all like mocked up, and then all of a sudden, like sending me like painted pictures of it. I'm like, Christ, Dave, you're doing this fast.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:17

So what is uh is it the hobby are the I love or whatever drummer?

SPEAKER_09 1:32:20

No, no, no, it's uh the Andy's Hobbies Andy's Hobbies one, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:24

Oh, okay, gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:26

Uh and maybe it'll be in the magazine.

SPEAKER_10 1:32:28

Maybe it's gonna be. Listen, you do good stuff. The hardest thing is the fucking photography on that thing because it's so big. It's yeah, it's hard to get it in frame. Anyway, I'm gonna direct you, Dave, to a good backdrop because you got that you got your own big room now where you move to, right? You got your own dedicated big hobby space. Now, I'm gonna direct you, I'm gonna try to find you the a perfect backdrop for for you to take pictures of, and then what you do is you take the pictures, you send them to me, and then I'll crop them up and I'll make sure that they they're all behind the background. That's the biggest thing, you know. Lighting and the background, that's the biggest thing, you know.

SPEAKER_09 1:33:07

I've got a big photo box, but these damn things don't even fit in a photo box, right?

SPEAKER_10 1:33:11

But they believe it or not, they make even bigger ones, believe it or not. So, and they're not expensive, they're not expensive.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:17

Taking pictures of a 30-second scale plane, jet is hard to do, man.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:22

Yeah, they're massive, they're massive, they're big. All right, so Frankie Perone. I know what you're working on, but let everybody know what you're working on right now because you're doing a great damn job on this, man.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:32

Yeah, I think uh everybody's seen pictures, it's been all over the internet a little bit.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:36

Uh, I am working it everywhere, man. God, I'm sick of it.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:40

Yeah, trumpeters 135th scale, su 101 SPA. I did all the copper fenders. I scratch-built all the fenders for it, scratch-built all the fuel tanks, and today I just mounted the uh photo edge smoke canisters on the back.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:58

You did a good job on those, man. How'd you do the ribbing?

SPEAKER_08 1:34:02

Uh what do you mean? The ribb it was all it's all the photo edge kit, the whole thing.

SPEAKER_10 1:34:07

Right, right. So, do you did the how did you do your embosing of the ribbing on those canisters? What did you do? I was like you don't know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_11 1:34:16

You used to say embossing, not embosing.

SPEAKER_10 1:34:20

I was gonna say, I don't know what embosing is, but how did you add the embossing? You know what I'm talking about. It looks like a can of tomato soup, man. You know what I'm talking about on the on the fenders.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:36

I took uh I made it.

SPEAKER_10 1:34:40

Aren't they ribbed a little bit?

SPEAKER_08 1:34:42

Yeah, but the result they come ribbed already. They come ribbed already.

SPEAKER_10 1:34:49

Oh, time and money. Who makes those? Which ones are those? It's a whole photo edge set.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:58

Who's who's taking a half a point off whose is that?

SPEAKER_10 1:35:02

Is that Abers?

SPEAKER_08 1:35:03

This no, this is from that actually up by you in Brooklyn. Uh i model is sore. They're uh a Russian importer, I guess.

SPEAKER_10 1:35:12

Yeah, so you cheated. So I thought you made it.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:14

That's the set there.

SPEAKER_10 1:35:15

You you use pixely. Yes, I see. You cheated. You cheated. Okay. I don't know if how do you put them in then?

SPEAKER_08 1:35:21

What do you use to put them in then? That was the only part I didn't scratch me on the key.

SPEAKER_10 1:35:25

I got a tool that makes the little ribs on them and stuff. He cheated, but it's okay. You did a great job. You went from a 10, you went from a 10 to a 10 now.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:33

I'm in a bronze now. So do you make the ribs and then you roll it?

SPEAKER_10 1:35:37

Or right, that's what you do. You make the ribs and then you roll it, right? But this one already comes with the ribbon.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:43

How does that not fuck up the ribs?

SPEAKER_10 1:35:44

Because the ribs are on the outside and you're rolling from the inside. Like when you roll something, you already made the the ribbing and you're rolling it around a dowel or a metal bar to make the roundness of it, and it's not gonna Dave.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:56

That's that's what I'm building right now.

SPEAKER_09 1:35:58

I could talking about condoms right now.

SPEAKER_10 1:36:02

Right, it's ribbed for your pleasure. Ribb for her pleasure.

SPEAKER_13 1:36:05

You mean you didn't you didn't make the tool and die set to put the ribbing in there? That's cheating. No, yeah, you cheating.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:11

Dave, that's what I'm building.

SPEAKER_10 1:36:13

If you want to take a quick look, it's you're a little pixelated because there's a lot going on here, but yeah, it looks good, Frankie. Yeah, look, you look you're doing a really good job. Don't butter up on the chief judge, Frank. I'm not, you're not getting any points or the amps.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:28

He's the only one who didn't see what's going on.

SPEAKER_13 1:36:30

He's already taken a half a point off her scope of effort because you already had ribs in that. That's true.

SPEAKER_10 1:36:35

All right. Frankie Denati, we what did you just finish? I know you have nothing on the bench because you just finished something. What did you just finish? I got something on the bench already. What did you just finish and then what's on your bench?

SPEAKER_11 1:36:46

So I just finished the Hobby Boss uh T35, which is the land battleship. It's uh one of the Russian tanks that's got five turrets on it. So uh that took me what close to a month. And uh she's all done, photographed, spammed the internet, going around the world. I'll take it to HeritageCon. Great kit, lots of great stuff on it, value gear stuff. I scratched a few things, did a couple new things on it. Absolutely rock solid kit, not a single complaint about it, except the machine gun turrets have seams on the back that you gotta work to to hide. But other than that, I mean it was just an absolute joy, and it looks massive. As a matter of fact, I'm I'm working on a hetzer, and uh this thing is two and a half headers long.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:33

2.5 headzers.

SPEAKER_11 1:37:34

It's 2.5 heads, it's massive. So it is a big kit.

SPEAKER_10 1:37:37

That is a big kit, and you did a good job on it, Frank. Metric or standard?

SPEAKER_11 1:37:41

Uh metric. And now I'm doing uh a prog Hetzer. So uh hey Frankie, uh where did you get that from? You interrupted me again. I said I got this kit from my close personal and emotional friend, Justin Met Santa Orion, who in a moment of weakness after riffs spent 15 minutes going, yeah, come on, it's a Frankie kit. Order it, you bastard, you cheapskate. Hey, you freeloader, get it, it's on sale. If you were closer, I'd order it for you. Justin said challenge accepted.

SPEAKER_10 1:38:14

I was even further away. That is a Frankie kit. That is a Frankie kit, so awesome, Frankie.

SPEAKER_11 1:38:19

So yeah, it's actually it's a snowman model, which means it's it's actually the Tacom Hetzer with the snowman 3D print extras, and then it's the uh Star Deckles package for the uh the decling because there's four different variants. So it's really, really cool. It's going together really nice.

SPEAKER_10 1:38:35

Fantastic, Frankie. All right, so uh Mr. Santucci, so since you're so damn talkative tonight and I haven't kept you haven't been able to shut up, what do you got on your bench?

SPEAKER_07 1:38:44

Um still have the same thing on the bench the last time, but it's uh it's ready to be the base paint and the detail painting is the Copper State Models Russian uh Garford Putilov armor truck. There's subassembly, so just gonna find time to paint, which maybe this week. I have a short window this week where I'm not I don't have grad school work, too much grad school work this week. That's on the bench, but I did get a lot of packages from Eastern Europe from uh Edgar over at Copper State Models. He did me a solid because there was something missing from my initial order, and boy, did it come fast. So I have some some small projects that I'm chomping at the bit to get done, like a World War I era US motorcycle. And uh was it missing parts or what? No, it didn't. Uh one of my one of my items that wasn't in the first shipment, and I let him know, and he was like, dude, I'm so sorry. And he sent me something else on top of the missing item. So I have a World War I era German bicycle that's really cool and intriguing that I also want to do. Build reviews for, and there's a few figures in there as well.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:44

Well, you got a nice little connection with with um Copper State, so well, I mean I bought 35th scale, god damn.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:51

Well, I've already done the British part for I've done the British version, so this one's you I'm on hold, you'll see it. I'll let you guys see it in the magazine when it comes out.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:59

Oh, I know. I you you do a fucking awesome job on those bikes, too. Yeah, those bikes and motorcycles I love.

SPEAKER_10 1:40:05

You do a good job. You actually do a good job on the rubber, like that weren't like the white rubber or whatever. You do whatever it is, you do a little really good job on that.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:12

Yeah, I've got the right combination now after looking at actual period motorcycle tires. Right. Um, I will say the American motorcycle, uh, he's figured out how to 3D print the tread pattern, which is basically no skid, is the tread pattern. It's the words no skid, which is a hundred percent accurate. So that was an early yeah. The word no skid was a tread pattern on on um real rubber tires back around that time period. Yep. So he figured out to do it on a 135th scale motorcycle.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:43

I I want to see that, actually. I really want to see that.

SPEAKER_10 1:40:46

Yeah, Mr. Justin Ryan, who was swearing off models for a while because of what he what he went through with the Musuru Cup. You are so excited. Like, we should have done like a before and after, like those pitches when people like like they're so excited about like normal right, like they're not like well, they're like they they get to like this deserted island, and you're all excited to be like like isolated, and you got this big smile on your face, and then they have a picture of you like three months later, all emaciated, and which like can't wait to get the hell back home. That's you right now when it comes to the hobby. You were so happy, like, oh I can't wait to get into this mushroom cop and like giving updates, and then all of a sudden, you're like it gradually your attitude was changing, you were falling deeper and deeper to the abyss. And look at you now, like you don't even want to look at a fucking model anymore.

SPEAKER_13 1:41:33

You know what the killer on that was? It wasn't anything I was doing, and it wasn't the kit, it was that piece of shit 3D printed stuff that I spliced in. God damn, that guy needs to learn how to do his shit. Last time I buy from that guy, anyhow. Bootbook is done. And it yeah, by the way, that was not Iceman, it was not VCG, it was some rando off of eBay. But he was the only one that had that uh wide body kit for the Nissan Sylvia S15, so I was kind of stuck with it. But now that that's off the bench, I am trying to find my mojo again, and I'm working on the Tamia P38 Lightning, uh, the FG model, because I don't want to do it in bare metal. So yeah, I mean, I started it, kind of forced myself about two weeks ago. I started it. It sat here until I got the Musaru done, and I picked it back up again today for the Sunday builds uh with Mike Outlaw and Jason Hanscom, and then I had to stop what I was doing. I was in a nice flow. I had to stop what I was doing because my son's car died, and I had to go and rescue him. But I was actually kind of been working on it now since we've been talking. So yeah, to me, uh P38.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:42

What about the fucking octopus?

SPEAKER_13 1:42:43

Uh let's see, that's that's one I need to I need to focus on that. I did start painting this guy at Zolokon, as I had mentioned before. I probably have another eight hours, maybe even 16 hours until I finish this guy. Yeah, I need to find my groove back on that one too.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:58

All right, me? Kind of nothing on the bench because I just finished that Gecko Models Matilda 1. It's not released yet. I well, it's I think it might have just been released overseas, but it's not released in the United States yet. But it's a really, really great kit. And I just released a YouTube video, which is actually doing pretty good on YouTube on the modeling insanity TV YouTube channel. So take a look if you want to see it. The article is going to be in Military Model Craft International in the April issue. Should be out uh any day now. It should be available. It's out, I think it's available over in Europe, but it'll be available in the states in a couple of days. I am going to be starting to work on the the 16th scale moder 2 from Gecko that they sent me as well. I don't think that's released yet, or it might be just have been released as well, but I have to build that up. I am definitely not gonna have it ready for next month, though, because of everything that's going on. So just be a a preview in the next issue and then probably a full build the issue after. So that's it for me. So, Rob Adams, I know you've been trimming a lot of bushes lately. And when I've been trimming bushes, trimming a lot of bushes, trimming a lot of bushes. So besides trimming bushes, um, what are you but are you building anything? Because there are things behind you, but I don't know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:05

I've been working on a big dragon. So I'll show you. There you go.

SPEAKER_10 1:44:10

Very Justin Ryan of you working on that dragon.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:13

Yeah, but it's big, so I can airbrush it. That's what I like about this.

SPEAKER_10 1:44:16

Well, you do a good job. Oh, you're an art. That's what you do, man. You you really enjoy that. So yeah, that's it though. I mean, you didn't you still gotta finish the F-35.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:24

I've got to finish the F-35. I have an F-14 70 second scale sitting here. Which is a great kit. Ready to go. I and I just haven't taken the plunge yet because I'm like, ah, I don't fucking feel like doing a cockpit right now.

SPEAKER_10 1:44:38

You know, I should be getting that, you know, talking about I should have said when I went, I should be getting that to me at Chaffee any day soon. So soon to do because I know that's gonna be released soon, too. So that should be a pretty cool kit. Not my type of cup of tea, that kit, but I know to me is gonna be sending it out for reviews and builds, so that should be pretty cool. All right, so on that note, we're gonna go to our last segment, which is our social media shout-outs, because we're going on while here. Um, so we're gonna go to our next ad spot for Demon Barber Designs.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:09

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SPEAKER_10 1:45:52

All right, we're back, and we're gonna go to social media shout-outs. So again, Mr. Dave Vickers, who was your social media shout-out?

SPEAKER_09 1:46:01

Yeah, well, I actually kind of got a couple. I went to the Atlantic Amp show, and uh I just want to say hats off to the guys who put that show together. It was like having a show in a palace. Uh having it at Hilton was great. I thought they did a great job on the show. One of the guys that uh I really enjoyed at that show always is uh Tony Zadro, had some stuff on the table. It was exhibit only, but he did this really funky, weird Iraqi NBC vehicle. Tony's known for doing picking this stuff out that nobody else does. And I don't even know where he found the pictures for this thing, and I was like, what the hell is that? But it was really cool, and uh he had it in display only, which I think I gave him a hard time about that. Told me he should enter it. Uh and then my last guy is uh I just went to uh an IPMS show down here, uh Beach Con. And uh the guy won Best of Show. I don't know his name, but the guy had to be pushing 85, maybe 90. And he won Best of Show for this Japanese battleship that he did. It was really beautiful, and uh you could tell he was really humbled, and uh it was just really cool to see that. So those are my shout outs.

SPEAKER_10 1:47:10

I love seeing the show, that's awesome. Tony Zodro, great guy. Tony, listen, Tony's not listening, but I will say this great guy, but a weird guy. I told Tony, I go, Tony, two years ago, South Bend. I was like, uh you know, he won Best Master, right in South Bend because you don't enter your stuff, you always go display only because you're the chief judge. That's what you do, right? So Tony won best master, I think at South Bend. I said, Tony, your models are gonna be in the magazine for when in best, you know. This was two years ago when we did our spread at the South Bend. So I messaged him and I was like, Tony, you're in the magazine, and then I saw him at Camp Hill. I'm like, Tony, you never messaged me. You were in the magazine a year ago for your he's like, Really? I didn't know that. I'm like, Oh my god, yeah. I mean, come on, Tony. I mean, you know what day it is? Would you have for breakfast? You know, I love the guy, but he's just like totally out there. Fireman, man, they're weird guys, right? Frankie Peron. Tony's exit. Tony's on to our own. All right. So on that note, Frankie Peron, who is your social media shout-out?

SPEAKER_08 1:48:11

Mine is going to Mr. John Hale for his remanufactured M4A3 DV in Okinawa, 1945. Beautiful Sherman. He did a great job in this as always. His work is just so pleasing to look at. All his subjects.

SPEAKER_10 1:48:27

Yeah, excellent. Thanks, Frankie. All right, so you know what? We're gonna go to uh Mr. We'll go to Rob Adams since we almost forgot him on our last segment. So who's your social media shout-out?

SPEAKER_05 1:48:37

My social media shout-out goes to uh all the entries that I've seen into the Musuru Cup. So so far I've seen Brian's, the mojo's. I think they're I think they're almost all done now. Justin's, yeah, I know you gave up, you bastard.

SPEAKER_13 1:48:52

No, I gave up, but I didn't give up.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:55

No, I know. You've you did a fantastic job. Everybody did a fantastic job. I was getting uh some previews from Brian, which was kind of cool. So before they hit the internet, I got to see them, and he's done an amazing job. In my opinion, he's gonna win. That's just my opinion.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:12

All right. Well, I mean, listen, Brian's a great guy, he does great work, man. And uh let's just hope that uh while he was walking the model to take pictures of to send to Musharu Cup, it fell out of his hands and broke.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:23

He took good good photos as well.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:25

Oh, he already took the photos, that's right. Well, hopefully the photos go missing during the transfer.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:30

I mean, I'm I'm always cheering for you, brother. You know that.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:33

No, Brian knows how he feels. He's a big part of our, you know, he's a big part of our group, and even though he's the built sideways, he they're very good friends of ours.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:41

Brian's a good friend, and but you know, even Whitey, so he did the Japanese meatball right on the side of the car, and it's I saw it last night when we filled we recorded. Which that is a degree of difficulty, right there, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:56

Whitey showed it last night when we recorded our uh horror movie show. Down episode with me, him, and Dave, and he showed it and he was he's a little proud of it. We'll do all right.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:06

Listen, why do you he should be fucking proud of that? That and yeah, it looked good. I think it was awesome. And like, like I said, where he put it made it a lot hard. It's not like it was just on the roof, you know what I mean, where you just stick it on there, it was where all the doors and everything are, so you have to cut it all apart, right? You know what's funny?

SPEAKER_13 1:50:25

He started off with the same attitude I ended with. He's like, This car's a piece of shit.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:34

What the yeah, he ended up getting motivated by the end and it demotivated you. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_10 1:50:43

Whitey's from Boston, and we have very, very low expectations for anybody from that part of the country. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:54

I guess essentially at the end of this, it was all the Musaru Cup people but Whitey. Because I thought Whitey.

SPEAKER_10 1:51:01

I thought that putting that meatball on the way he did, it was fucking uh the Musaru cup do they do uh places or is it just a winner? No, it's just a winner. So you don't know where you fell in and the other button.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:14

All right, no, understand.

SPEAKER_10 1:51:16

Listen, I did see a seam line on Brian Denklau's car, and I did see some issues with the exhaust. I don't I just want to put it out there for the judges.

SPEAKER_13 1:51:24

Did the exhaust goes up 13 feet above the top of the car?

SPEAKER_10 1:51:28

I want you to put that model in Photoshop and do AI and see how touched up in Photoshop prior to judging. This I think it's some shenanigans going on with that build. That's just I'll edit that out because we have so losers. I'm only kidding. Mr. Santucci, who is your social media shout-out?

SPEAKER_07 1:51:45

My social media shout-out goes to Pavel Matusik uhusic. Hopefully I didn't pronounce that right.

SPEAKER_10 1:51:51

You probably said that total entirely wrong.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:54

Well, I don't know. It's Pavel Matusik. He posted on Copper State Modelers Facebook page, a the 132nd scale brist British school scout type C. He did an amazing job. Uh he goes through I I reposted it on our page. So you want to look at how this beautiful, the beautiful World War I aircraft came out, which is gorgeous. I have this kit. Now, after seeing what he did, I'm just gonna box keep mine on the box where it belongs because I can't mess it up. That's a good idea.

SPEAKER_10 1:52:22

Yeah, well, it's gotta check it out. I mean, there's always some really good stuff on that page, too. Yeah, Frankie Venati, who's your social media shout-out?

SPEAKER_11 1:52:30

It's a gentleman named Steven Demo, Crazy Scale Models, and Justin will be familiar with this. Uh it's there's a USAC Camaro build, 2026 USAC. Anyway, he did a um a Camaro dragster in gold metal flake with a purple top, wired the engine, the full interior. Uh he's got pictures of it with the body on and off. Absolutely fantastic. So crazy scale models. Your 2026 USAC Camaro build of the dragster is absolutely uh out of sight, man.

SPEAKER_10 1:53:00

Awesome. Sounds good. So, Justin, who is your social media shout out? Well, with St.

SPEAKER_13 1:53:05

Patty's Day, just two short days away from our recording. I'm choosing a pulse from Irish Scale Modeler. Uh now he put he's got uh the Meng F-18F Hornet, and he's only in the paintwork stage, but hot damn is his paintwork amazing. Uh, he looks like he's using stencils and and all that other jazz, but holy smokes, Irish scale modeler is kicking ass on this F-A-18.

SPEAKER_10 1:53:34

All right, so my social media shout-out goes to my buddy Ramon Saguer. If anybody knows Ramon Saguer, he goes by Ramon Seguerra Madalista on Facebook. He's a big contributor to MMI. It's an STKFZ3B, it's phenomenal. He always does great stuff. He actually just got the cover for the last issue with the stag hound because we're doing a little British mat British um focus, especially on the on the cover. So his stag hound is on the cover of the April issue of uh military model craft. It's actually really good. Um, so good job, Ramon. You always do great stuff, very inspiring, great, and you always do great photography. And uh it's always great to see you're very diverse, very diverse, like a Frank. It's like Frankie Donati with his diversity in his modeling, unlike Frankie Peron, who I've told him I've given him strict rules: no more German and no more Russian. Commonwealth and US, that's your stick.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:23

Stay in my lane. Russian is his stick.

SPEAKER_10 1:54:26

No, no, no, no, no. Stay away from the Russian and them German stuff, and we won't have any problems, Frankie.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:32

Stay in my lane. You did a good job.

SPEAKER_10 1:54:35

All right, this was a fun show. Dave, Mr. Vickers. We always appreciate you coming on. You were on the live cast a few months back. We had a great time, was a great show. We had you on the show again here on the the podcast. We definitely got to do this more often. I am looking forward to seeing you in person at the show. God willing, there's no issues, but it is a month away, but a lot anything can happen in 30 days.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:55

Shut up.

SPEAKER_10 1:54:56

But we will be there. And uh, you know I'm always willing to help, especially uh not having to take pictures might make uh it a little easier this year.

SPEAKER_09 1:55:04

Hey, you always pitch right in, Rob, and I sure appreciate it. And again, thank you for having me on the show. And uh anytime you want to have me back to answer any questions or maybe give my two cents as a chief judge, I'm happy to do that.

SPEAKER_10 1:55:17

Yeah, absolutely. And um listen, you great model of Dave. You're you're doing great, and you're you're doing something that you didn't do for a long time, and that's the publishing side of the hobby, which I think you should have been doing years ago, but uh you are doing it now, so that means more and more people will get to know you outside of the states. I think more people outside the states need to get to know Dave Vickers and outside of Amps. Uh you weren't on an IPM mask, but I'm talking about like I think it's time for people to see the work that you do because you do great stuff.

SPEAKER_09 1:55:46

Great stuff. Don't make me blush, man. But thanks.

SPEAKER_10 1:55:49

No, you're making me you do and you're and this and Dave, this is the and I'm gonna be honest to you. You are a great chief judge, and you are a model as judge, and uh that goes that says a lot. I think a lot of organizations, uh even IPMS included, need to have more people that are model as judges, which you should have when you're doing your thing and you are overwhelmed sometimes. I've seen the overwhelmed Dave Vickers face, where you know I'm trying to make you laugh a little bit and you're not even fucking cracking a smile. No, so I'm like, Oh, Dave's a pissed. I'll leave him be for a little while. Dave, you want something to drink? Yeah, give me a water. Okay, I got you. Yeah, um, but uh Dave, but yes, you do a great job, and this is gonna be a good show, man. These are always great shows, and South Bend's a great venue, and it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_09 1:56:36

Well, I I have a great team, and uh I appreciate the compliments. That's probably some of the nicest things ever heard about me. Usually it's other stuff like I hear from other guys, you know, because not everybody's always gonna be happy, but listen, I'm I I I hear a lot, I'm involved a lot, so I know a lot of the you know, there's a lot going on behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_10 1:56:55

People don't realize all the shit that goes on, and the shit slinging, like you said, goes on too.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:00

But um like I said, I learned a lot, I learned a lot today uh from you, so I appreciate that as well. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Dave.

SPEAKER_10 1:57:09

Yeah, that's good, and that's what this is for. This is for the listeners. I know we always do these AMP shows around this time, and this is good for the listeners to hear, especially if they plan on going to AMPS National, is that they have a little insight before they go and also know about the trainings that are being coming up. And it's the more trainings and the more training people do, trainings at your job make you a better worker. Trainings judging makes you a better judge, so it will definitely make you a better judge.

SPEAKER_13 1:57:32

Could you say that this is one of our amp up shows? That might be the title of the show. Sorry, I've been away.

SPEAKER_10 1:57:42

We're all amped up, amped up. That's the title. Good job. Justin, you are contributing for a change. You're just not showing up. You know, I I Stella's gotta find her groove again. And I joke and I say, Well, Justin hasn't been around, we haven't seen him in the build rooms that much. He has gone through some stuff, he's in his new place, and I always say Justin's pulling a freight oh, he's probably banging two cocktail waitresses right now because that's why he's not in the room. I can't even do my two hands at the same time. But like I will say this. I mean, the mode when I had a talk with Justin way back, and we talked about maybe doing another podcast, not me on it, but doing a car-related podcast. We always talked about Justin being a part of that, and I realized you know what, Justin, you know, he this guy does a lot for our group. I gotta pay him back. Maybe we'll do a little car podcast. And when the opportunity presented itself with Jason Hanscom and Mike Outlaw and Jody and BG, and the Model Car Mania started. I didn't realize that we would lose Justin in a lot of ways, he's not even part of this group no more.

SPEAKER_13 1:58:44

No, it's not that.

SPEAKER_10 1:58:45

So, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna have an open audition for Justin C. Remember they did that on Howard Stern, like win stuttering John's job. We might do a Justin Ryan's job here. We might start doing that because Justin might be just on the Model Car Mania show. No, all right. So, the couple of things though, I'm happy to say that the uh charity auction that we did in December, and now it's three months away. We're about three weeks um behind schedule, I should say. But everything has been pretty much shipped out. Only a few people haven't sent their money that's outside of the group. The guys inside of the group still need to send their stuff in. There's only one little issue, and it's what matters is scale slash uh inside the armor. John Cole Santi had a a little bit of an issue, and his stuff will be going out once he's able to print and get production going again. I know that I had put a post up, but I am gonna email or message people, the four people who bought stuff through John. And uh, if you want to refund, I will send back the money. If you need the product right away, I will refund the money, but John will get it out. But we are like almost 100% done with the auction, so we really do appreciate it. I did underestimate some of the shipping, I will say that. Some of the shipping costs, we estimated it. There were some people I was like, ah, it costs about$50 to send this package, it was$140 through UPS. There was somewhere I was like, ah, this is$30, it was$90. One package I didn't realize was going to Canada. I misread it. I thought it was going to like I I don't know what I misread it. I thought maybe it was going to Ohio, and I says, ah, this is only$15, wound up being$60. So there was some shipping that was a little messed up, and I didn't ask those people to send the shipping. I I covered it, so because that was my era. So we have that, but Frank, you know is this story. So I don't want like people to have to send more money for the shipping, but that did happen. Overall, things are going good. Like I said, I just I personally just released a new video on the insanity TV, which is doing really good for that Gecko Models build video, which is really good. So check it out if you can. It's really I think it's good. Um, I tried some music in there. Frank, you listened to it. My friends here didn't even fucking watch the video. That's the support I get. My friend Rob's like, oh, you released the video? Yeah, asshole. I told you I was releasing it. He doesn't want to watch it.

SPEAKER_05 2:00:58

I'll watch it.

SPEAKER_10 2:00:59

It's doing pretty good. I like some feedback on it. Again, upcoming shows. We got Amps Nationals, like we talked about today. Well, that you know, a lot. We also got our local shows like Replicon, Mosquito Con, Con Ancom. You had Heritage Con for Frankie Donati up in Canada. You'll see Frankie Donati there in his very, very tight jeans. Right, Frank? Very long legs.

SPEAKER_11 2:01:21

Guess my age, count the rings.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:23

It makes his ass look nice.

SPEAKER_10 2:01:25

Frankie Denati has when you're at a show, all you gotta do is look for the guy who has unusually long skinny legs on a very large Audi.

SPEAKER_11 2:01:34

No, as a matter of fact, I have negative ass.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:36

I owe ass. That's why you need to wear tight jeans so that you can accentuate the very little that you have, which is nice.

SPEAKER_10 2:01:44

If you're at a show and you need to find Frankie Denati and you don't know who he is, just look for the legs, you'll find him quickly, right? Yeah, absolutely. I'm a tripod.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:54

He's like a daddy long legs.

SPEAKER_10 2:01:56

Yeah, he is. Oh, Frankie Daddy Long Legs.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:59

Frankie Daddy Long Legs, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 2:02:01

And again, they're gonna be announcing the Musuru winners at that show. Hopefully, it's either Jason, Justin, or Brian, or Whitey, or who else is doing it for the mojo? Actually, I sent uh Basquette did it for the mojo. Basket, Mike Basquette, okay.

SPEAKER_11 2:02:16

Actually, I sent Rob uh Adams a clip of the uh the one for uh scale model podcast. Actually, take a look at that one, Rob. It's pretty good.

SPEAKER_10 2:02:24

Yeah, okay, cool. I'm gonna be sitting in. Hopefully, um it works out, but I'm supposed to sit in for El Prez tomorrow night on the Model Geeks podcast. We're gonna I think I'm invited to record with those foreign gentlemen over there. You know, I gotta kind of they kind of they come on, I gotta kind of like elevate the intensity over there. We gotta we gotta spark over there, we gotta spark them up, right, Justin? A little bit.

SPEAKER_13 2:02:44

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_10 2:02:48

Hopefully, I'll get the horror, the horror um movie showdown. I had to work on the AI intro, which took me a long time to get the sound right, so I think it's gonna work out and sound pretty good. Justin, do your spiel.

SPEAKER_13 2:03:00

All right, ladies and gentlemen. If you enjoyed this episode of Model Insanity Podcast, you can go on over to modelpodcast.com. That is a consortium website where you can find all your favorite podcast listening for your oral pleasures. And if you like to pleasure your eyeballs with reading, you can also find some blogs over there to read and all sorts of good stuff. That's modelpodcast.com.

SPEAKER_10 2:03:24

And also check out the modeling insanity TV. Quarterscale Madness has not recorded in quite some time. There's been a lot of issues trying to get us together. I know Luke is starting to get really pissed at me right now. He's grumpy Luke. You know when Luke gets grumpy, man, he's crazy. So he calls Luke Australian. Yeah, so Luke is cranky. Stan's got the model box shop. Anybody listening? Model box shop. The plastic posse actually did a nice video doing a little tour of the model box for Stan. It's a great store over there in that part of Texas. So you definitely got to check it out. Just look it up. The model box is doing really good with that. And hopefully we can get a recording for quarter scale, Model Carmania. They're gonna be up to episode seven, I think, right, Justin?

SPEAKER_13 2:04:04

Uh yeah. So damn close to it. Right. So yeah. My commute is literally now like 10 minutes and 37 seconds. So I don't have time to listen to anything.

SPEAKER_10 2:04:14

Well, you are coming up episode either. I think it's episode seven, and you guys are doing really good. Obviously, we're doing our live cast on the insanity TV, which is you know always a lot of fun too. So keep an eye out for that. So on that note, we are gonna say our goodbyes. So for the modeling insanity podcast, I'm your host, Rob Riv, and my co-host, Mr. Justin Ryan. Have a wonderful evening and a great work week, ladies and gentlemen. Mr. Frankie Denati. Thanks for spending some time with us. Mr. Rob Adams. Good evening, everyone. Mr. Steve Santucci.

SPEAKER_07 2:04:46

Build what you love, love what you build.

unknown 2:04:48

Mr.

SPEAKER_10 2:04:48

Frankie Perone.

SPEAKER_08 2:04:50

Have a great night, everyone.

SPEAKER_10 2:04:51

And our special guest tonight and Chief Judge for Amps, Mr. Dave Vickers. Yo, have a good one. All right, guys. Thanks for listening, and we will catch you on the flip side.

SPEAKER_12 2:05:18

That's it. I've had enough. I gotta get out of here before one of these guys tries to weather me. What a group, what a group. Five grown men, a couple tubes of glue, and more issues than a magazine rank. Let's start with the boss, Rob Riv, the little general himself. Loud, fast, and that Long Island accent? What is that? English or Morse code? I need closed captioning just to argue with her. Great modeler, they tell me. Doesn't like to paint. That's like a chef who hates cooking. What are you doing, kid? Plating empty dishes? Justin Ryan. Hey, Justin, where are you? Missing, divorced. This guy's got more disappearing acts than a magician. Bill's car models. Yeah, when he shows up. That beard trimming to charge it rent. Quick build, he says six months later we're filing a missing persons report. Frank the Notty. Frankie! The organizer, the backbone, the guy keeping this friggin' circus from burning down. Builds a damn model every day. What are you, a machine? And those legs, my God. You got more leg than a flamingo and nowhere to sit. Buy a chair with a warning label. Steve Santucci! Um Steve. Always in a bad mood. Revolutionary war reenacted. This guy's still mad about the British. Collects cards, stamps, coins, what are they? A hobby museum? Lighten up, will ya? I smiled at him. He looked at me like I taxed his teeth. And then we got Rob Adams, the prominent canada. Half the time he's modeling, the other half he's marinating. Great modeler, no question, but I don't know if he airbrushes or just exhales. Every sentence sounds like it's trying to find its way home. And this is your crew. This is the Modeling Insanity Podcast, not a show, a condition. Three hours of plastic paint arguments and five guys busting each other's chops like it's an Olympic sport. I came in here healthy. I'm leaving with a headache and a shopping list for hobby supplies. Full disclosure, I agreed to do this because I am one of the many that owe that little guy Rob Riv money. Consider this payment on the debt. I'll tell you something, and don't let it get around. Because I have a reputation to protect. These guys, they're funny. They're nuts. And they love what they do, even if they drive each other crazy doing it. So keep building, keep arguing, and most importantly, keep having fun. So on that note, lose my number riv, and I bid the rest of you all a farewell and very good night.