Hereditary

A mother who builds perfect little worlds. A family that can’t speak plainly without tearing open wounds. A coven that’s been patient for decades. Hereditary still gnaws at us because it splices private pain with public ritual—and then shows how both feed on silence. We unpack why the movie’s most terrifying sequences aren’t the skittering on the walls but the moments at the table, in the car, and in the bedroom when stress thickens the air. Toni Collette’s ferocity and Alex Wolff’s unraveling make shock feel real; Gabriel Byrne’s weary restraint shows what denial costs. We trace the breadcrumb trail of Paimon from lens-flare “light” to carved sigils, Joan’s too-convenient seance, and the party that feels engineered—down to the mountain of chopped nuts and that marked utility pole.

We also dig into Ari Aster’s craft: the dollhouse aesthetic as a thesis about control, the way the camera slides from miniature to “real” to make the home feel like a set, and those snap day-night transitions that flip the world like a switch. The house doesn’t add up spatially, and that’s the point; like The Shining, geometry becomes dread. When the sketchbook burns and Steve combusts, when Annie’s face empties under that gliding light, the story stops flirting with the supernatural and lets the ritual run. By the treehouse coronation, the film’s logic is brutal and tidy: inheritance is more than blood—it’s atmosphere, pressure, and choreography.

If you love elevated horror, occult symbolism, and movies that hide clues in plain sight, this deep dive is for you. We chart what’s scary, what’s staged, and what the film is really arguing about grief and control. Hit play, then tell us: what shook you more—the family drama or the cult’s endgame? Subscribe, share with a horror friend, and drop a review to help more listeners find the show.

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Music produced by Joey Prosser. X @mrjoeyprosser

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome, Setup, First Impressions
• 1:02 What Makes Hereditary Scary
• 2:40 Family Tension vs Cult Horror
• 6:25 Miniatures, Frames, And What’s “Real”
• 9:08 Ari Aster’s Intentions And Style
• 12:05 Plot Walkthrough Begins
• 21:02 The Party, The Cake, The Pole
• 25:20 The Decapitation And Aftermath
• 31:20 Seances, Joan, And Red Flags
• 37:30 The Seance At Home Escalates
• 42:20 Symbols, Paimon, And The Coven
• 48:00 School Possession And Head Smashes
• 52:20 Corpse In The Attic, Steve’s Fate
• 56:30 The Night Siege And The Treehouse
• 1:04:00 Themes, Performances, And “The Point”
• 1:08:30 The Good, The Bad, The Ugly, The Fine
• 1:13:30 Pairings: The Ice Storm And The Shining
• 1:18:20 Next Week: The Empty Man + CTA

Transcript

SPEAKER_04: 0:00

Hello and welcome to the We Recommend Podcast, a movie podcast where every week we recommend a movie for you to watch and then come back here and listen to us discuss. I'm Jesse. I'm Jason. You know, Annie, you can always build a shrine to all the terrible things in the world, but it doesn't mean that you have to destroy anything that is good. Cause this week we recommend hereditary. Jason! First time watching, second, second. Alright, I want to know what did you think the first time you watched it, and what do you think now after re-watching it?

SPEAKER_00: 0:37

The first time I watched it, I thought it was one of the scariest fucking things I'd ever seen. Yeah. Creepiest. And then um the second time it was like still very chilling at times, but it was just very entertaining and and pretty.

SPEAKER_04: 0:52

So uh what did you find scary in terms of like what's scary in this movie for you?

SPEAKER_00: 0:57

Uh the the well, the intense grief. Yeah. Um and you know, the little thing with the mom sawing her own head off. I don't know what that's scary. And like floating through the air. That was what really got me the first time.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12

So um I thought when I first watched this movie, I was so stressed out. This movie stresses me out. And that's where I find I get all like the horror from. Like, you know, the cult shit, the sawing the head off, like her skittering on the wall. That was cool. That shit I'm like metal. But then it's just like her screaming at her kid at the dinner table. I'm just like, I feel like I'm going to the sunken place and get out. I'm like, please just send me to a different. I hate confrontation. I hate feeling confrontation in the air. It makes me want to die inside. Like, no joke. So this movie is, I don't know. I feel like I use the word masterpiece too much. Like I even used it for long legs. It's like obviously not a masterpiece. But man, in terms of like stress and everything that I have fears of in like my life, this movie's a masterpiece for that. Just uh, just scared that there's one person around you that's just gonna like go off at any time. Oh, like uh, like I remember being, I don't know, just around friends, and you know, like if they had a parent that was like getting really upset and you could tell, and I'd be like, all right, we need to chill out what we're doing in here because the adult in the house is starting to get upset. And then whenever it just like you just like it breaks, right? And all of a sudden, like the dad or the mother's mad, and it's like, oh man, can I just leave?

SPEAKER_00: 2:38

It's kind of like how Peter was saying that he could feel the air flexing.

SPEAKER_04: 2:41

Yes, God, that's so, yeah. Yeah, yeah, Jason, yeah. It's like in this terms, they're meaning ghosts or demons, but I'm like, nah, there's this like you can cut the tension in here with uh with the knife. And it's always I don't know. Um, and then you know, I kind of go to learn that like I've always been like that as a kid, and I was always scared of being in trouble and stuff, like my parents said. Said if I did something, I'd I'd just be like worried that I'm gonna get in trouble. Mom be like, you didn't do anything wrong. And I'm like, but I feel something weird. And that's what this movie makes me feel like. And it's it's I don't know why it's so scary for me. I really liked how they did the ghost. Yes, the light. Yeah. When I first watched it, I was like, because it shows up when Charlie's in a room and there's almost kind of like a glare, like a lens flare almost. And I'm like, ooh, that was kind of cool. And then it boop all over the room, and I was like, oh way.

SPEAKER_00: 3:36

That was neat. Oh no. I was we're talking about the like the mom and like showing up in the corners. Oh, just the corners. Yeah. That was pretty cool. Yeah. But yeah, that thing is really neat.

SPEAKER_02: 3:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:47

That gave me like, God, I don't know. Like, is this supposed to be Charlie or Paymont or what? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 3:55

Yeah, I was debating on whether I should just start and just explaining like the whole ritual that has been going on, or if I should about I think I'm just gonna wait as we go through the plot. Um I do want to say at the beginning, um, you know, the head cutting off, that's that's like the um that's the payment for Paymon. Oh. Or Paymon.

SPEAKER_00: 4:14

Whatever we say at at the end that we've correct what did they say? We've corrected your first body or like did something to it. Yeah. Which was the daughter. Yeah. So it's uh we'll wait till we get into the plot.

SPEAKER_04: 4:29

Just because I feel like if we explain it now, there's no reason to get the cool hood. Yeah, it's uh it's rat, and I I want to know more about the or old, you know, one of the king, one of the eight kings of hell, you know. Didn't even know there was that many of them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:42

Well, who are the other ones?

SPEAKER_04: 4:43

You know, it's you know why it's hell down there? There's too many bosses, too many cooks in the kitchen.

SPEAKER_02: 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 4:49

It's strong with hell. Um, so I guess I want to know what's scarier in the film. The family drama or the the horror of the cult? What did you find scarier?

SPEAKER_02: 5:01

I've already said what I found scarier. I mean, the family drama is very intense. Um I don't know. Yeah. I don't really know. I think there's a pretty good balance there.

SPEAKER_04: 5:15

You know what I love about this movie is about how Tony Cullick's character Annie just hates Peter. Just does not want anything to do with Peter. It's like, because the whole movie she's kind of being like, oh yeah, he's always got a smug look on his face, or he's always like, gonna say this or that. It's like the entire time in this movie, Peter's in a little angel. Peter. I mean, he just goes and asks his mom, like, hey, is it okay if I take the car? I'm gonna go hang out with the parents. She immediately is just like, just like so fed up with him. I'm like, he literally came in so politely asking you a question, and you just immediately made the situation worse for him. And same thing at the dinner table. She he just asks, Hey, this is good, and she's like, Fuck you. It's like, man, this movie hasn't showed us any of the stuff that you seem to have issues with your son, and it's just but then we figure out why, because you know, she didn't want him at all. Yeah, isn't that crazy? Yeah. She was, you know, just pressured by the mother for what reason, I wonder.

SPEAKER_01: 6:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:20

So does that mean that Steve's not his dad?

SPEAKER_04: 6:24

No, Steve's his dad. Okay. Yeah, we'll get into it when we get into what this is just uh the whole beginning of this one big tease of us how we're gonna explain everything.

SPEAKER_00: 6:34

I'm so confused.

SPEAKER_04: 6:35

Um, so uh some facts. The producer said that it worked out well that Gabriel Byrne and Alex Wolfe, that's Steve and Peter, had worked together, and that Alex and Millie Shapiro, uh, which is Charlie, had also knew each other from school, actually. They went to school together because it made Tony Click the outsider, which mirrored Annie's character and feelings of alienation with her own family. Bro. So true though. I was like, man, Annie, you gotta get out of this fucking room and talk to your people. Like you're just going nutso in this room building miniatures. I love her miniatures though. Dude. It's very cool. How crazy is it that throughout the film when watching, there's some times where I was like, I don't know if this is miniature, if this is real. And I'm so confused at what's real and not.

SPEAKER_00: 7:22

It all looked so like those pastels. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 7:25

And the darkness was almost exactly the same as all the houses she was building, but it was gosh, it's so wild because it's it'd just be like we'd cut to like the face of Peter, and then it'll be zooming out of a doorway, and because the way the movie enters into the story is by looking out at the treehouse in the room where all the miniatures, and then it zooms in into the miniatures, and then that's where the movie starts taking place, and it's like, well, what the fuck is real here? Um, but then like because of that, the entire time you're watching, nothing feels real.

SPEAKER_02: 8:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 8:01

At the same time. And then there'll just be times where it zooms out of a door, and I'm like, is this the miniature house or is this real?

SPEAKER_00: 8:08

Are we all inside of Annie's imagination all the time?

SPEAKER_04: 8:11

Is it just cutting from them doing like a zoom out of a room through a miniature and then kind of doing the creative thing that they did at the beginning and zooming into another area where it's actually the real scene happening? And it was just Moo did a good job at making you feel uncomfortable 24-7.

SPEAKER_00: 8:30

And I love when movies do this with like sometimes they'll do it with dollhouses, you know, yeah and things like that. But I think this is the best that I've seen this type of thing done.

SPEAKER_04: 8:42

I mean, it's wild that this is Arias's first film. Yeah. It's just like, how did you just how are you able to just do this? I get having the idea, and of course, you have a whole cast and crew that can help you piece it together because it's no movie is one man's like creation. It's and it's it's the whole list of casting crew at the end of the movie. But man, it is like everything came together just right. And God bless A24, you know, they make some of the best and stressful horror movies. Um Ari Astor wanted to go for scares that were emotionally justified rather than solely leaning on traditional horror jump scares. And I believe he was very successful.

SPEAKER_02: 9:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 9:25

You know, I was thinking uh me and Natalie talked afterwards, uh, because we watched Long Legs together and Hereditary, and I asked her, I was like, which one do you find better? And like we couldn't really answer. Like, I think this is a better movie and better overall put together. I think so too. But man, I've like I love this when it came out, immediately bought it when I saw it. Um, and then I never watched it until now. And I think it's it's a movie that's gonna be kind of hard for me to go back to because it stresses me out so much. Versus long legs, you know, I said it was like a a warm blanket. Hereditary is like a a like I'm using my favorite blanket, but it's soaking wet. And it's on fire. Yeah, soaked in paint thinner when you're holding a box of matches. It's like I'm glad I got my favorite blanket, but I wish it wasn't like covered in water or something or fire. It's like I enjoy the situation. It's too warm. Yeah. It's like this is the best way I can explain it because it's just like, ah, this is horror. I'm living in horror, my favorite genre. So at around an hour and six minutes, uh, to make the chalkboard write on itself, the special effects team put a magnet in the chalk and put a magnet on the other side of the chalkboard to make the chalk move. It was very difficult to get a small magnet inside the chalk and make it right smoothly. Coincidentally, the same technique was used in the film version of Matilda. Oh, yeah. Um, and Mili Shapiro, who plays Charlie, starred as Matilda in the Broadway musical. A couple little fun things. She's a scary little girl.

SPEAKER_00: 10:57

Yeah. It's uh she's always got that doomed look on her face.

SPEAKER_04: 11:04

Yeah, she always looks like I'm walking to death. And it's like, hey, can you can you talk other than just click? And then when she does talk, she says the most messed up shit, and it's like, never mind, don't talk anymore. Just click. It's makes those great little wicker dolls. Yeah. And which turns out, I guess she was just making little effigies to Palomine. Hell yeah. And she didn't even know it. I'm assuming that's something like the grandmother taught her or something. Oh yeah, I bet. Um, so the house was constructed completely on sets on a sound stage in Utah in order to follow Ariaster's shot list. They needed to be able to remove walls and ceilings in order to shoot the rooms to look exactly like the miniatures. It's a badass house. Yeah, it really does. It looks great. And there's fun little facts when we go through the plot. I will uh be like, hey, did you notice this? Okay. Uh when we get there. That's why I kind of want to add this in the notes, because um, this movie's very similar to Shining, where uh throughout the movie they're showing you parts of the house, and you're like, this doesn't physically make sense with how your house is set up. And there's a lot of times where I felt like Peter's room is switched, like it's on opposite sides of the house every once in a while. Like you'll see him coming from the room, and then you'll see him go into a room and then he leaves and goes back into the hallway, and you're like, wait, but I thought Peter's house was over here. And it's very it's kind of like shining, where you're like, the thing feels like it's real trick. It's just it's it just you're mentally subconsciously, you're like, Wait, what's happening?

SPEAKER_00: 12:39

Doesn't make you feel good.

SPEAKER_04: 12:41

My point. So confused. Um uh so oh yeah, this is fun just because it's Halloween season. In uh Peter's first scene at school, the words escaping fate is on the chalkboard with the teacher discussing it. This is a reference to Halloween 1978, where the main characters discuss the same thing in class. Appropriately, this movie was released also the same day as the trailer of Halloween 2018.

SPEAKER_00: 13:05

It's crazy.

unknown: 13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 13:07

Always love that. Love that when directors put things from their favorite movies in it. Um, Errari Astor had originally written this film to be a straight-up family drama dealing with the grief and loss one experiences with death of close family members, but Astor saw the potential of turning the film into a horror story and rewrote the script to what it is now. Had this remained a family drama, Midsummer would have been the first horror film like he initially intended it to be. Wild, because this one's way scarier than Midsummer.

SPEAKER_00: 13:36

Midsummer, I mean, they both have that that air of being strange and and just I guess the fear of strangeness.

SPEAKER_04: 13:47

I don't know. Have you seen Bo is Afraid? No. That's his third movie? Bro, you think those these two movies are scary strange? Go watch Bo'fraid. Oh yeah. Fun thing with Bo That's Afraid is it's not really a horror movie. I mean, it it deals with like grief and stuff like that, kind of like both Midsummer and Hereditary do. But apparently that whole movie, um, Bo is Afraid, the story of the movie isn't even in like the character that we follow. Like all the story for the universe, I guess, is all in the background. And Aryaster said, People don't even know, haven't even found out what the real story behind Bo is Afraid is yet. And I'm like, I've only seen it once because it's three fucking hours because every movie is now. But I was like, wait, what? How many times do I gotta watch Bo is Afraid now? Now you gotta figure it out. It's also a very stressful movie. It also has some like, I don't know, that movie's like ingrained in my head from a lot of the visuals in that movie. If you haven't seen Bone is Afraid, you should watch it. It is a visual treat it out of just psychos everywhere. So uh Tony Collette, um, Annie, uh, probably gives like a fucking Oscar-worthy performance in this movie. She wasn't even nominated for it. Yeah, she's been in like Sixth Sense and a lot of other different movies. Uh, the remake of Fright Knight, um, Krampus. She's in Krampus, she's great at Krampus. But she doesn't actually, she doesn't like horror films, uh, which is what made her hesitant at first to act in this film. The only reason she accepted her roles in Fright Knight and Krampus were because she saw them more as black comedies rather than horror films. But because she kind of swore off doing um horror movies after a while, I think it's sixth sense, you know. Probably just tired of like, you know, this is really hard on me as a human being to constantly feel stressed and emotional. Um, but then she read the script of this and she said, Fuck, I have to do it now.

unknown: 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 15:46

And she's amazing. She has some of the best uh I am terrified faces. Yeah. Like, and it's always like it's so good. It's so good. Um, and then uh the last thing I got, and I just really liked the way Ariaster put it. So, one way that Ariaster pitched the film when he was first taking it, uh, first like thinking about it, it says it's a story about a long-lived possession ritual told from the perspective of the sacrificial lambs. Damn. That's it. That's hot. That's everything I got. That's hot. Paris. Thank you, Paris. Um, all right, man. I think we should just hop right into it. I'm excited to talk about this movie. I've been excited since uh we finished talking about long legs.

SPEAKER_02: 16:32

Hell yeah, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_04: 16:35

All right, but before we get into the plot, remember, as we just go through it, think about what the point of the movie is. Like or like if you didn't do it while you're watching it, like think about what's the movie trying to say. It's pretty obvious. The title says it almost, but you know, it was fun watching this. I watched it yesterday uh with my wife, and you know, I just kind of I felt like when I watched it the first time and the second time, all I could see was like what the point of the movie is. And this time for doing the notes, I was like, what are they what's the cult trying to do in this movie? Like, what's the whole succession of the cult? Why are they all naked? I felt like I was just, you know, watching the first couple times, I was just feeling what the movie was making me feel instead of trying to piece together what the I mean, like I got what the cult was doing, but I didn't try to like visually like, all right, what are they doing? Pause it. Okay, so this means this, this means this. So that's that's another reason why I really like this film. You can watch it in both ways. You can watch it as a family drama or just a cult drama, and it's kind of great or horror. Um but yes, so think about what the point of the movie is, and we'll get into it. Hereditary 2018 rated horror. Nominated for no Oscars. Bullshit. This was the year Green Book won. You're telling me Hereditary couldn't be in there instead of fucking Green Book. Never saw a green book, but uh, so I guess I shouldn't have a strong opinion. I'm just mad that this movie wasn't nominated. Tony Clarette wasn't even nominated. That's ridiculous. Bullshit. All right, anyways, hereditary. So the story begins with a viewer looking out of the window into uh from a workshop to a tree house, then turning and zooming into a bedroom in a dollhouse that is in the workshop that leads to an actual scene. Fucking great. Yeah. Immediately good. Treehouse. My dad walks in, you're like, shit. It's like, wait, what? Is this movie about dolls? Um, also, wonderful tree house. Crazy how scary it looks for me. I don't know. It's so such an ominous treehouse. It doesn't look like it's got a lot of support. Yeah, it doesn't look like that it makes any sense of being there. Which I think is the point. Yeah. Um, so Steve Graham wakes his teenage son Peter and 13-year-old daughter Charlie for their 78-year-old grandmother Ellen Tapper Lee's funeral. Steve finds Charlie sleeping in the treehouse, and Annie, the mother, is already waiting in the car. Weird to wake them up as you're literally needing to leave. Yeah. That was a bad plan. Really, when I watched it the second time, I was like, these are bad parents, man.

SPEAKER_00: 19:09

Maybe they just got up real early. And she's just like, I'm gonna sit in the car for three hours. She's gotta practice her speech.

SPEAKER_04: 19:15

Also, I forgot. I took a I forgot I took some pictures on my phones instead of writing them down. Uh, but yeah, it does start with an obituary that reads, uh Ellen Tapper Lee, 78, passed away after a prolonged illness at her daughter Annie's house on April 3rd, 2018. Beloved wife of the late Martin Lee, R.I.P., devoted mother of Annie Lee Graham and the late Charles Lee, R.I.P., cherished grandmother of Peter Graham and Charlie Graham. She is also survived by her son-in-law, Dr. Stephen Graham. She will be missed. Love that. That's all they have to say. She will be missed. It's like it just goes because it's a very weird obituary, not to say like at least a couple sweet things about him, you know. Well, maybe it sounds like they tried.

SPEAKER_00: 20:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 20:01

Like devoted mother.

SPEAKER_00: 20:02

Yeah, but it doesn't really sound like it.

SPEAKER_04: 20:04

We don't really have much more. I will miss her. Um, so Annie, an artist who sculpts miniature dioramas, delivers the eulogy at her mother's service. Annie seems to not really like her mother or even really wanting to do the eulogy. Charlie makes a like clucking noise, clicking noise. I don't know how to explain it, but while drawing a strange sketch sketch during the speech, Charlie visits Lee's caskets. She notices a necklace, and a strange man smiles at her. Yeah, that was weird. Sure, that won't come up later. Sure, he won't end up naked in your living room, smiling. Um hope he does. Yeah. You know, and like whenever watching it for the second time, you know, it kind of does that zoom, or the where the guy's out of focus, then he's in focus, smiles at Charlie, and then comes back. Me and Nally turn to each other like I don't remember that. Forgot about that, I guess. Um and then uh they get home and Annie is worried about the fact that she isn't sad. Yeah. And there's nothing kind of weirder than just being like, shouldn't I be more sad in a sad situation?

SPEAKER_00: 21:11

It's it's funny how people grieve differently. Yeah. Um I mean, I've been I've been there. And uh I act I act super spry fucking strange whenever I grieve.

SPEAKER_02: 21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:23

And it's different every time. So like I don't know. I get nervous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 21:27

Like going before funerals, especially if it's like peop people like I know like are new a lot. I kind of get there and I'm just like I just get panicky a little bit and it's weird.

SPEAKER_02: 21:40

Sure.

SPEAKER_04: 21:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 21:41

Makes more sense. But it's normal. And I think maybe she because she isn't grieving.

SPEAKER_00: 21:49

I know I had a cohesive thought there coming, but it left me.

SPEAKER_01: 21:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:54

Sorry. Maybe we'll I'll remind her of it.

SPEAKER_04: 21:56

Um, but yeah, I do think it was like a really funny scene because she comes home, it's like, should I be I'm not really sad? And it's like, oh yeah, that and then it's a little funny because a little later Peter's like, he's like, You all right, Peter? It's like you're sad and you talk about it. He's like, eh. Like nobody was really sad that she's gone. She was obviously I think Charlie was a little bit. Yeah, Charlie was, but that's because uh reasons we'll find out later. Don't know why I'm doing a voice. Uh so Annie is working on her miniatures. She has uh six and a half months to finish. Annie talks to Charlie about El Ellen, or Lee. I call her Lee the rest of the time. At bedtime that night, Charlie makes a lot of weird sculptures out of trash, almost like effigies. Charlie claims that her grandmother always wished Charlie were were a boy. To Annie's confusion, Charlie also wonders aloud who will take who will take care of her now that uh Lee is dead. Annie tells her she never cried as a baby. Then Annie notices the word Satoni written on the wall.

SPEAKER_00: 22:56

I didn't know what I didn't notice that. I saw her drawing it in her minute in her diorama later, but I didn't.

SPEAKER_04: 23:01

Yeah, uh there's like three or four times it like zooms in on a word that's like scratched into the wall. Yeah. Um, and I forgot to put what those words mean in my notes, and I apologize to everyone. It's just weird cryptic satanic shit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I have a big bull of Satoni. Yeah, man. What a what a fucking this movie just like will say things that are traumatizing. Like the who's gonna take care of me.

SPEAKER_00: 23:34

Uh I think a lot of kids probably think about that. Now that she's dead.

SPEAKER_04: 23:37

It's just like you have three people in the house with you, lady. Yeah. But it's just like, there's nothing probably worse to hear than that. Just like in um Annie's dream to Peter, where it's like, I didn't even want you. And it's like, man, imagine hearing that, right? God damn. Hey, and if you've heard that from a parent, we want you. So lit listen and follow and subscribe. Um safe space. Yeah. So Annie looks through some of her mother's old things and finds a book of spiritualism. Then she finds a note that Jesse will read off his phone. That was a reminder for me to read this note on a phone. My darling, dear, beautiful Annie, forgive me all the things I could not tell you. Please don't hate me and try not to despair your losses. You will see in the end that they were worth it. Our sacrifice will pale next to the rewards. Love, mommy. Oh. And it's funny because you think, like, don't despair your losses. You're mean she thinks she's meaning, oh, the fact that she died. No, it's the fact that you're screwed.

SPEAKER_00: 24:44

It sounds kind of like those letters kids were getting from their parents before the rapture was supposed to happen a couple days ago. Oh, is that something that was I saw some some people were reading the notes off on TikTok.

SPEAKER_02: 24:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:54

Because they were their parents were 100% sure that they were gonna be lifted up into the sky naked.

SPEAKER_04: 25:03

Guys, again, just if you're out here, you're listening to this, and your parents come up to you and say, the rapture's happening. Just be like, reread the Bible. Come on. Okay, it tells you you won't know. Yeah. So just, you know, tell them that. Tell them that they're bad at being religious if they don't even know what the whole thing they base their life is says.

SPEAKER_00: 25:29

It works every time.

SPEAKER_04: 25:30

Crazy. Can't just pick and choose what you want to like listen to in that book. All right, guys.

SPEAKER_03: 25:37

But, anyways.

SPEAKER_04: 25:40

Annie, as she leaves her room, sees her dead mom standing and smiling in the corner of their room in the dark, but she is gone when she turns on the light. Then Annie angrily turns a model of her trying to breastfeed Charlie, but her mother is also trying to get in on the action. Oh man. Fuck. Could you imagine that? Super straight. It's like your wife's trying to breastfeed your baby, and then all of a sudden your like mother comes in.

SPEAKER_03: 26:02

Hey, let me get in part of this action.

SPEAKER_04: 26:04

How about to say?

SPEAKER_03: 26:06

If everybody's just doing it, why not, right?

SPEAKER_04: 26:11

It's like, damn, Lee, you sound weird. Oh man. You got a demon inside you? Yes. Um, I love what this movie does with light, right? I know we talked a little bit about it before, but the flickering of lights and that the fact that outside, it seems that it works the same going from night to day. It's always like a flick of a switch. I love that. It's beautiful, really cool. It's maybe the greatest thing I've ever visually seen. Because the outside, when it does the big views, and you're like, is this miniature? Is this the actual house or whatever? It kind of is.

SPEAKER_00: 26:44

It's just right, because you're flicking on the hallway light or the room light. Right.

SPEAKER_04: 26:47

And it's and it seems like that'd probably be the easiest way to get those shots. That's yeah, that's badass. Beautiful, wonderful. Hey, by the way, we like this movie. Um, so at school, Charlie gets in trouble for playing with her sculpture. A bird dies flying into one of the Charlie's classroom windows at school. It leaves the mark of payamon. Really? Yes. I didn't notice that. Um that's yeah, kind of cool. Yeah, bro. That fucking symbols everywhere. Peter at school is staring at a girl's butt, and we learn he likes to smoke weed. Um, and a line from inside school whenever they're talking about like whatever subject they're on, the last thing we hear is that um it's like extremely hopeless because the pawns are in this hopeless machine. Hell yeah. Which is the family or a bunch of pawns in a hopeless machine. That's awesome. Yeah. Um, Charlie goes outside and cuts off the bird's head. Yes. When they're across the streets, like, hey Charlie, great job, girl. Ten out of ten head cutting off.

SPEAKER_00: 27:51

Do you think she's gonna put it on one of her little toys? Yeah, she does. Oh, oh, she does. Yeah, she does it. Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 27:56

Yeah, they show it. Oh wow. Um, and then she draws, you know, in the little book, a bird with a crown on, which is the ending of the movie.

SPEAKER_03: 28:03

Sweet.

SPEAKER_04: 28:05

Her bird's heads are falling off. It's like if Charlie was that little blind kid and Doma Domer, she'd be like, this is exactly what I needed for my sculptor.

SPEAKER_01: 28:15

Perfect.

SPEAKER_04: 28:16

Um yeah. Um yeah, I'll actually I'll bring that up later. Okay, anyways, so Annie begins researching apparition apparitions. She notices her mom's room's door is open and we see a triangle triangle burnt into the floor. Uh Ariester loves triangles. She loves shapes. Yeah. And this is something Ariester. Well, I guess you know, triangles are inverted triangles, things like that, like long legs. Yeah. Pentagrams are made out of two triangles. This slipped. They love it.

SPEAKER_00: 28:47

Um I love geometry too.

SPEAKER_04: 28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 28:50

When you can get a shape to equal out to 180 degrees. Oh. Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_04: 28:56

Put your pants back on. God. Um, and then yeah, Steve receives word from the cemetery that Ellen's grave was dis uh desecrated, but he decides not to tell his wife.

SPEAKER_00: 29:13

That's a weird thing not to talk about. Probably should have told her though. She's I mean, she is grieving. Just for weird.

SPEAKER_04: 29:19

Yeah, but you know, it's just like it would have helped for later on in the movie. It's because there's also like little secrets they're all kind of keeping from each other. Yeah, that's kind of and it implodes kind of towards the end because Steve never believes Annie and Annie can't get Steve to believe her anymore.

SPEAKER_00: 29:35

Yeah, that's lack of communication. He's trying to keep her from having an an episode that she's kind of prone to having.

SPEAKER_04: 29:42

Yeah, because heredit the hereditary genes that he thinks like runs through this family, and he's like, shit, I gotta be careful around these people. We'll bring it up at Thanksgiving. Yeah. The ice storm takes place during Thanksgiving. Uh, you guys are probably wondering why did he say that? You'll find out at the end. Um Yeah, so Annie tells Steve he she is going to a movie, but actually attends a grief counseling support group when she sees more secrets, which is gonna cause problems later.

SPEAKER_00: 30:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 30:10

Well, I think it's just I don't know. I it it's obviously she's uncomfortable about showing emotions because she's scared that she might be like her mother and her mother before that. For sure. Yeah. When she arrives at the meeting, it is dark outside. Annie openly discloses her mother's mental health issues, including the dissociative identity disorder or and dementia, which all led Annie not to be close with her. She explains that Lee's husband died of starvation because of his psychosis. Um, and her son killed himself because Lee was putting people in him. All this is actually just the outcome of rituals she's been performing.

SPEAKER_00: 30:46

Damn. So yeah. Wait, how do we know that?

SPEAKER_04: 30:49

Uh just based off what I think the whole ritual to bring Pi uh Paymon back. Right. I guess. Because they need a male host. Oh, right. Um, the kid says, My mom's trying to put people in me. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and I think that's not the normal way. And then as we see through this, um the demon or the key one of the kings of hell uh kind of just drives people crazy. Yeah. As it kind of is doing to Peter to weaken them. So I think all it was doing is uh the demon was weakening both of them and it to the point where the husband was like, I'm just gonna die of starvation, and then it was obviously gonna be put in the sun, and he's just like, Mom's trying to make me a demon. I'm gonna die instead. They were weak. So yeah, that's our first uh but the movie is so good because we don't really know any of this shit yet, right? We don't know if there's a cult or anything, so it just sounds like oh, this is what she's worried about. She's worried about she's gonna be like her mother. Yeah. Um that'd be terrifying.

SPEAKER_03: 31:49

Danny, you don't have to worry.

SPEAKER_04: 31:51

It's not quite what you think yet. Um but yeah, I love this, and this is why this movie is so beautiful upon a second watch, because you start clicking some of these things like, oh shit, no, this is just a failed attempt at a first ritual.

SPEAKER_00: 32:05

Um fun. Went right over my head though. Yeah. I really like it.

SPEAKER_04: 32:09

Did the first time for me too.

SPEAKER_00: 32:10

Do we talk about the part when the Annie's on the phone with saying that she's oh, we talked about she's got six months, right? But then they said they wanted a some of a like a picture of what she's got so and she makes a miniature display of her miniature displays. Yeah. It's like what? It's like what was that movie with a dream without a dream with a dream? Exception?

SPEAKER_04: 32:36

Yeah. It's kind of well, she's following it's it's wild because you know, she doesn't really have this um well, I mean, she may there may be some like uh psychosis issues within her family, but it's like, is the cult shit just making her go further and further into it from all the stress and not talking about how she actually feels? Um or is it just like, I don't know, this is where coping with her issues. Because like when she's looking up apparitions, she literally starts painting a laptop with like the apparitions paper like page, and it's like, what are you doing? You're just creating things now. That's awesome. Like you should just finish this thing, it seems pretty big and nice. Like, I think you've done it. Um, but anyways to continue. Charlie's no, you're fine. No, don't apologize. This is the whole point is us talking. So Charlie sees a strange light in her bedroom. Payment, payment. So uh yeah, and it's just because it you see kind of like it's almost like a lens flare, and then all of a sudden it covers the whole thing, and then she's like, wait, what just happened? And then you see like the little light shining on the wall and it goes to the window. It's like, go outside.

SPEAKER_00: 33:44

Like a shiny in a video game telling you which way to go.

SPEAKER_04: 33:46

Right. But it's just so great because you know, it's the first time you're kind of seeing something like, oh, there's like ghost shit. Well, like, oh, something's like in control here.

SPEAKER_00: 33:57

Yeah, something, yeah, there's something smart.

SPEAKER_04: 34:01

Trying to do something for these people. And it's just a great first wave being like, all right, I don't know what's gonna happen anymore. Because you think it's just gonna be a ghost story about grief, and then it becomes nope, something weird's there's a little bit extra to this all of a sudden. Um and it's fun. I love when just because this one little thing opens up the entire movie to like possibilities are endless now. Which you could say that's what the mother thing is in the corner, but you know, it could just be a ghost story, right? But instead, yeah, I mean it's a demon story.

SPEAKER_00: 34:32

I've I've I've had like really crazy dreams about people who had just died, you know. And then I'd never have them again. So it's just that grief, I guess.

SPEAKER_04: 34:42

Yeah, it's just like that subconscious of like, you need to feel this, so I'm gonna make you think about it and through a dream.

SPEAKER_00: 34:47

Your brain is not your friend.

SPEAKER_04: 34:49

Yeah. It's like, oh, do you think you're gonna have a good day tomorrow? Go to sleep and see what happens. Um, so gallery owner Sylvia Archer contacts Annie about the progress of her works, which include a piece featuring Ellen. They want a picture. Peter asks his mother if he can go to a party where he hopes to see Bridget, the girl that he's staring at the butt at a butt, a classmate he is interested in. Annie asks Peter if he invited his sister to go with him since he claimed it was a party related to their school. She seems very combative towards her son for no reason. Uh, really doesn't seem to like him. So I think Ariaster has some feelings about his mother. You think so? Watchbo is afraid. Okay. Definitely something about his mother in his past. Or maybe not. Maybe he's just like he just knows that that's a thing that kids go through in their lives, like you know, relationships with the parents, and it's usually sad as it is, we always blame our mother for everything, right? Um but yeah, because I feel like, especially in this movie, it's like the mother, like Annie just is always so rude to Peter. And it's to the point where I'm like, Ari, you got something to work out with your mother in these movies? Family therapist. Yeah. I put that later in my notes. Like, family therapy, guys. It's all you need to do. Um yeah, so yeah, she just doesn't really seem to like them that much. Definitely um, we'll figure out a little uh reasons later. But so Charlie experiences a vision of her grandmother surrounded by fire. Charlie makes her clucking noise when she's shaken out of her trance. Charlie tells Annie that she wants Lee. Annie forces Peter to take Charlie with him to the party, even though she doesn't want to go. It's like, do you think she just uh wants them gone? Just like, I give me a night, I gotta work on this project, right?

SPEAKER_00: 36:40

I think maybe. Or maybe she just wants because Charlie's pretty strange. She's probably gonna have a lot of friends. So she's just maybe she's worried about her friends.

SPEAKER_04: 36:51

I don't know. A part of me is just like it really just feels like she doesn't want any of the kids in her house. She's just like she ignores them almost.

SPEAKER_00: 36:58

And like this this uh Peter is so much older, like those kids are gonna be his age. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04: 37:05

And there's just like this whole thing where it just seems like anytime she's talking to any of the kids, it's always just like, ugh, stop doing this, stop doing that, stop doing this, which I mean maybe that is being a parent.

SPEAKER_00: 37:17

She kind of flipped out on Charlie for going outside without shoes.

SPEAKER_04: 37:21

And which both times that I watched it, but today when I was doing my notes for it, I was like, it must be really cold where they're at. There are they're in Utah, yeah. So I'm assuming it's freezing. But I was like, She's alright. She ain't gonna fucking die for being outside for five minutes. Jeez, I've been outside tons of times without my shoes in the house. Um, so here we go. Ready? Um, as they're getting ready for the party, we see the pole in the broad daylight. Yeah. There's a symbol of the mother's necklace on the pole. It's the symbol of Paymon. Nice paymon. Say it again for me. Paymon? Paymon. I keep wanting to make it a Pokemon. Paymon. Um, so they arrive at the party, Charlie and Peter. We see an atom bomb of nuts being chopped up. They're like cuts students' like enormous fucking pile of nuts. And I'm like, turn to Natalie, I'm like, damn, they got an atomic bomb for Charlie.

SPEAKER_00: 38:14

She shouldn't even be in that room.

SPEAKER_04: 38:15

Yeah, she's probably already like just walking in. Um, Peter blows off Charlie so he can smoke weed with Bridget and their friends is a great awkward, like, oh, is it a good party? And he's like, Why do you want to come? He's like, I was thinking about it. It's kind of a little charming and awkward at the same time.

SPEAKER_00: 38:31

That was funny whenever he's trying to get her alone, and she and then she's like, Yeah, let's go to the back room with the ball. And there's two other people.

SPEAKER_04: 38:39

He's got weed. It's so great. Um, and he tells his sister, he's like trying to get rid of her, and it's like, hey, look, there's cake. Go get some cake. I just want to smoke with this hot girl. That's all he's trying to do, right? Um and then, like, so Charlie goes to eat the chocolate cake containing a substance to which she's allergic to. Nuts. All the nuts. Thousands of nuts. Charlie begins choking as she experiences an anaphylactic sh reaction. She waits too long to tell Peter, though.

SPEAKER_00: 39:06

Um, and then like she does try to call him twice while he's in the room.

SPEAKER_04: 39:11

Well, that was mom. That was mom, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 39:13

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 39:14

It said mom on it. Oh, maybe. I thought it was her. I think it was like probably calling to be like, hey, y'all okay?

SPEAKER_00: 39:18

We're going to make sure your sister's not eating anything. We're going to bed.

SPEAKER_04: 39:21

Uh, why she didn't have her little EpiPen? No idea why they didn't force her to bring it. Again, Annie is not the best mom.

SPEAKER_00: 39:30

Well, say they also say that like they they say earlier that they don't have an EpiPen. Like they haven't replaced it.

SPEAKER_04: 39:36

They went to the funeral and she's eating a chocolate bar and the dad comes up, it's like, does that have nuts on it? And then Annie's like, Does that have nuts? We didn't bring the EpiPen. It's like they're constantly not prepared to take care of these children. Yes. Right. Um But yeah, and so while uh Charlie's going through it in the kitchen or whatever, um, Bridget starts talking about the sister, uh Charlie, and she's like, Hey, your sister's weird. She drew pictures of me and she made me look uh mentally challenged. He's like, ah, that's just that's Charlie for you. That's what she does. Um, and then the mom calls, and then Bridget gives a weird look to Peter. I think Bridget might be in the cult. Hell yeah. Because there's also this weird look that he she gives him, like in the classroom when he gets in trouble. It looks like it could be one of those looks like, hey, you you got caught or whatever, but it's her facial expression's weird, right?

SPEAKER_00: 40:33

That is kind of strange.

SPEAKER_04: 40:34

Because he was just on her phone and she didn't catch him looking at her butt. So I was like, is this weird thing with it? She does have a necklace on. I couldn't really tell what it was.

SPEAKER_00: 40:43

I thought it was kind of a like, I thought you were smarter than that. You know, because she gave like a really good answer to the question. And then he's just like, What? Yeah, he's like, 'cause he's on his phone.

SPEAKER_04: 40:53

But I don't know. There's this look that he gives Peter when she's like, he's looking at the phone, and it's just like this weird stare into his eyes, like soul almost. So I'm like, Gonna get you. And as we'll figure out, everything has been planned for this family's demise. And I'm like, well, so they there's there's the little sigil on the pole that her head's gonna get hit on. He had to have a reason to come to this party. He gets a text saying, bring your dick to this party because uh potential for having sex with Bridget, I would assume. Yeah. So I would assume that Bridget is a part of this.

SPEAKER_00: 41:28

Well, no, she wasn't the one chopping.

SPEAKER_04: 41:30

But she is sitting alone talking to no one on a couch, perfectly visible to the entrance of when they walk in. It feels like a setup. Yes, like this whole party feels like a weird setup. Yeah. So I'm like, how many people are and a lot of flannel at this party? I don't know. Like all the people in the room are wearing flannel, it's probably very or the two girls are in the room. So it seems like maybe this is a cult thing, like set up by a cult. Um weird to have that many nuts, man. That's a weird pile of nuts to have in the house, right? Just chopping it up for at a high school party. To make a cake for everyone. Did you think that, like, oh, have you ever been to have you been to a high school party where everybody's like, bring all the nuts you got?

SPEAKER_03: 42:14

Chop them up.

SPEAKER_04: 42:15

No, it was your your entrance fee for the party. Never been to a party where there's a giant pile of nuts. It's a trad wife party. The only time I've been to a party where there's a ton of nuts is when there's a cult around. When it's a sausage party? Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think like this is kind of this whole scenario's been set up and planned. Um yeah. Uh yeah. That's what I wanted to say about Bridget. So um Charlie comes in and is like, can't breathe, dude. And so he like picks her up and oh, so fucking this is a crazy scene. Buzzkill. Peter carries his sister to his car and rushes her towards the hospital along a dark country road. Charlie sticks her head out of the the window in an effort to breathe better. Peter swerves the void of a dead animal on the road. Charlie is decapitated when her head violently hits a utility pole. Yes. And Peter just sits and stares in shock in his car. The first time I watched it. Well, let me go through this. Peter drives home in a calm daze. Annie comes outside when it's light outside and is horrified to find her daughter's headless body far back seat, cut to detapated head, and Annie grieving loudly and wanting to die while Peter is outside the room. This scene fucking flipped my shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 43:35

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_04: 43:37

Because not only the stress of just hearing and seeing this like young like kid, it's heartbreaking and seeing how scared he is. He's like, shit, she shouldn't have been at this party. I shouldn't have been in like the I shouldn't had to supervise her. She shouldn't have been here. She's not the same age as these kids. And then she sticks your head out the window, and you're like, shit, don't fall out the window. Oh, didn't know our head was gonna come completely off. But then to make everything so much worse, he just keeps driving. Yeah. He gets out. First time I watch it, I'm like, what are you doing? Say something, do something. Then it cuts to her. You hear them downstairs, like, oh, I'm gonna go do this.

SPEAKER_00: 44:15

That was the most stressful.

SPEAKER_04: 44:16

And then she starts screaming. Yeah. And he's just like he starts to squeeze onto his pillow and is just like, I want to die myself right now. I'm so stressed out. It's fucking good.

SPEAKER_00: 44:31

It was crazy how uh how they captured like the just being in shock. Yeah. Um that was one of the that was awesome.

SPEAKER_04: 44:40

It it may it makes me realize I've never been in shock.

SPEAKER_00: 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 44:43

Well you might have. Well, like a little bit when I got mugged, which I've said before. There's a bit of shock because I didn't know what was going on. But I mean, damn, I didn't see a decapitated head. Didn't see a head fly off. I don't know what I'd do in that. I'd probably just scream, I'd like to think, but I don't know. Maybe this would be me be like, maybe I get out of car and just walk till I'd somewhere different. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 45:04

It's like when when I was a kid, I broke my glasses and tried to glue them together. I was really scared my parents are gonna find out. God, so much. Maybe he should have tried to, you know. Glue her head back together.

SPEAKER_04: 45:13

Yeah, just puts her head back on, leans her up in the seat, drives home. Mom comes out, like, it's like, mom, she loved doing this with birds. Great scene. Makes you hurt inside.

SPEAKER_00: 45:27

Yeah, and she's really good at when she's screaming, crying.

SPEAKER_04: 45:32

Yeah, which is something that they also do in midsummer, whenever you know, like the whole cult is with Danny, like and everybody starts crying with her, and it's like so supportive. Yeah, it's just it's a great way to, I guess, get rid of grief. Next time someone dies in my life, I'm gonna be just a screaming cry. So the family holds a funeral for Charlie. Steve walks through the house and we see a word written in their bedroom. Zazoz. Zazoz? Z-A-Z-A-S. Zazoo! Zazaz. Zazoz. Sounds like a Star Wars character. But a Star Wars character would be saying. Um, so Peter getting ready uh for bed notices a red light coming from the treehouse. Steve then looks through Charlie's sketchbooks of drawing. Got a bird with a crown on it.

SPEAKER_00: 46:20

Oh yeah. The the red, the bright red light coming out is so cool. I know the ominous. I want like that.

SPEAKER_04: 46:26

I want that just that frame uh framed on my wall. I want like a picture of that framed. Just because it it's it's so scary, but also comforting. It's weird. I just like that shot. And then whenever it cuts to Peter, you see the red in his eyes from the thing. And it's like, oh, just beautifully shot, movie. Um then we see the red light is Annie sleeping with heaters on. Peter at school has visions of Charlie at school. He then experiences a panic attack while smoking marijuana, but more like he's having an allergic reaction before biking home from school. Peter arrives at home in the dark in uh the dark and is hesitant to go inside because he's scared to face. I'm assuming his mother at this point. Annie grieves alone while sitting in the car in the driveway. So, smoking marijuana and then start having a panic attack. At first I thought it was a panic attack, but then I think uh maybe there's like a little bit of like the possession thing kind of happening to where or he's just like grieving through her by having the feeling of his throat closing up, kind of like that's the way she died. Yeah, maybe because he started like being like my throat, and it's like, oh shit. He's kind of experiencing grief through.

SPEAKER_00: 47:36

Yeah, and it just kind of hits when grief hits you like real hard. Yeah. Maybe that's what it was.

SPEAKER_04: 47:41

And I feel like because he's constantly thinking about I should have been paying attention, otherwise, she wouldn't have gone in anaphylactic shock. Think he's probably and he's getting high, so he's now maybe hallucinating that his throat is closing up himself. Very smart, very fun. Uh, don't smoke weed when you're that paranoid and scared.

SPEAKER_00: 47:57

I love how his friend was like, just hold my hand.

SPEAKER_04: 48:00

Well, no, he said that to his friends, like, let me hold your hand. And it's kind of like a sweet little moment, and the guy lets him, and it's like, uh, there is one part in this where I kind of wish we had a little bit more with some of the students around him because they don't he just kind of goes back to school and it's like, Did you take any time off for school? Since you know, seems like you'd take some direct. Maybe don't go to school. Yeah, I can't. I take a couple days off. I take the rest of the semester off. So Annie drives the grief support group meeting again, but decides to turn around while still in the parking lot. It is dark when she arrives. However, before Annie can leave, fellow group member Joan spots Annie and stops her to talk. After hearing about Charlie's death, Joan confides in Annie about the loss of her own child and grandson. Joan gives her a number so she can call if she needs to. Tony Collette is great in this scene. Yeah. Because she's like, I don't want to be here. I don't want to talk to you. My daughter died. And then she says, Yeah, my son died too, drowning with the grandson who's only seven. She's like, What the fuck?

SPEAKER_00: 49:04

It's like competition, Joan.

SPEAKER_04: 49:06

I know, but it works. The conversation works. Like Joan knew, like, oh shit, she needs someone that's experienced a similar thing.

SPEAKER_00: 49:15

So do you think Joan killed her kids too? I think it's completely made up.

SPEAKER_04: 49:20

Yeah, I don't think it's a real story at all. Joan's a big fat liar. Might as well come to find out later. So uh later, uh yeah. When Annie returns home, Steve makes a pass at her, like in bed, puts her arm on her shoulder. I think it's a pass.

SPEAKER_00: 49:39

I think he's just trying to comfort her.

SPEAKER_04: 49:40

Like I don't the more I've rewatched it, the more I think he's like, he's wanting some intimacy back. But possibly. Because I don't know how much time has passed at this point. Uh but Annie rebuffs him because as soon as he she he puts his hand on her shoulder, she's like She kind of cringes a little bit. Yeah, she's like, don't try this now. And it's like, hey man, I don't know if you ever get to have sex anymore after what's happened to Charlie, right? And she saw that. I think you gotta wait a couple years for you have sex again at that point. Go to therapy, maybe. I don't know. Um, Annie sleeps in the treehouse. Peter hears Charlie's clucking noise and sees what he thinks is a vision of her of his dead sister in his room, but it appears to just be his own hoodie in the corner.

SPEAKER_00: 50:21

Yeah, I thought it was her too.

SPEAKER_04: 50:22

Yeah. I was like, is she like slouched over and that's the back of her hair? And it's like, I think it's just a hoodie. So Annie visits Joan at Joan's apartment, and he tells Joan about a sleepwalking incident in which she dowels Peter and Charlie and herself from head to toe and paint thinner for waking up to find herself preparing to light a match. From her body language, Annie implies that the matches were in her left hand and a can of paint thinner in her right. Annie explains that her relationship with her children were never the same afterwards. So I think this is subconscious subconsciously trying to save the family for what's about to happen at a younger age, right? I thought yeah, because killing them would not allow the pain that they're about to go through and you know the possession of both her kids essentially.

SPEAKER_00: 51:08

And maybe that's what happened to Joan's kids if she wasn't lying.

SPEAKER_04: 51:11

Yeah, because they're like they felt like they knew what was going on, so they decided to kill themselves. Or she's a big fat liar.

unknown: 51:18

Damn it.

SPEAKER_04: 51:18

All these liars. So um, but yeah, another great scene. Tony Collette does delivers monologues like she's just been fucking doing it since she came out the womb. She's like, she's a professional actress here. She's so good at just making you hurt, man. It's great. She does the same thing in the sixth sense. Yeah. Every time she talks, you're like, oh, it hurts to hear the things you have gone through. Um, I don't know, but I love this whole scene about the sleepwalking. Because at first I was like, damn, she got some problems. And now I'm like, you know, actually, it'd probably have been better if they just all burned right then and there. Which Paimon uses to uh that information a little bit later, though. So nice. Steve finds Annie constructing a disturbing diorama of the scene where Charlie died. Steve is worried if Peter sees this. I don't know. Think about your fucking son, Peter. Probably doesn't want to see something he did like this again. Uh Annie doesn't care though, and Steve is getting frustrated at how distant Annie is and her strange behavior. Because I mean if Peter walked in and be like, Cool, Mom. Obviously, I'm totally fine and this isn't something that I'm dealing with. But yeah, let's just make it a part of your collection here. But also maybe a way of her fighting through her grief.

SPEAKER_00: 52:36

I think that's yeah, that's what I thought too. Because she did feel better after making it. Yeah. A little bit. Seems maybe kind of maybe she's just sinking deep.

SPEAKER_04: 52:44

But I think maybe all the discussions with Joan, it's like, oh, this is making me feel better. Maybe let's do a little bit more of this, right? Yeah, a little artistic expression. Maybe just don't make it as bloody as it was then, though. You know, maybe pretty rad. Yeah, pretty great. Pretty much. Hey Annie, if you're gonna if you're gonna sell that, you know, maybe that would be badass.

SPEAKER_00: 53:05

And like all of these, like with her ghost mom in the hallway. Yeah, like her son beheaded on the bed. Like I would I'd love a miniature of this house.

SPEAKER_04: 53:16

Or at least even just a miniature of the outside and with the tree house, it would be dope to have in the house.

SPEAKER_00: 53:21

Yeah, that'd be a fucking great exhibit.

SPEAKER_04: 53:24

Yeah. So Steve, Annie, and Peter have an awkward dinner. Peter compliments the food, and Annie makes a comment under her breath. Peter asks if anything is on her mind. Annie goes the fuck off because of years of holding in her anger at her son, Peter. She blames her son for Charlie's death, and she's mad that he hasn't said I'm sorry, because she wanted, she was thinking, man, I wish something good could have at least come from this, that we could all have been closer as a family instead of being driving them apart even more. Um, and then because it's great because you know, Peter's like, Do you have anything you want to say, mom? And then she immediately is like, What the fuck did you say to me? He's like, just say it. It's like, I've been trying to tell you, but you always sneer at me. He's like, I don't fucking sneer. What are you talking about? I'm a teenager, mother. Help me out here. God, you tried to burn me alive at one point. What do you want me to do here? And then she's like, I'll tell, don't. And then he like kind of cusses at her. He's like, Don't cuss at your mother. And it's like, you know, I get you're mad, but this isn't gonna help. Um, and then, you know, goes off. It's like, uh, you know, family, we could have been sorry. And then she sits down, and Peter's like, he went from being mad at his mom to like scared, to then being like, Oh yeah? Why did she fucking have to go, mom? Yeah, she didn't want to go. It's your fault. I didn't want her to go. You just didn't want her around for a night. And look what happened. You didn't want to be the adult and take care of your daughter. I had to be. But he also lied about it not being like a party with drugs and alcohol and stuff like that. But hey, your daughter's younger than your son. And you know by a large margin. He obviously just wants to go and talk to girls. Don't bring a little sister, you know? Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 55:10

And then the father's like, everybody got to get stop.

unknown: 55:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 55:16

And then she walks off because she's pissed. And then I put my notes. Therapy. Go to therapy.

SPEAKER_00: 55:22

As a family, little birdie calling.

SPEAKER_04: 55:28

Long legs walks in. Guys, y'all got a problem here. Even the devil's talking about our feelings. The devil's getting stressed out here. Put my long legs on for this. Mommy!

unknown: 55:40

Daddy.

SPEAKER_04: 55:42

So Annie runs into Joan at an art supply store. Joan excitedly explains to Annie that she attended an open seance that changed her skepticism about uh psychics. Joan tells Annie that a medium was able to conjure her dead grandson Lewis and taught Joan how to conduct a seance as well. And if you notice in the back in her car, Joan has a chalkboard in the trunk that is unopened.

SPEAKER_00: 56:03

Oh, because she's yeah, so it is a huge lie.

SPEAKER_04: 56:06

Yeah, it's all a lie. Because she was preparing to bring all this stuff there to be like, yeah, and I had this chalkboard at home that I use. Like, nope, chalkboard's in the back seat. Damn it. That's why it's perfectly inframed. I just already asked her, it's a god dang genius. Also, what I love about this is, you know, once you learn Joan is uh part of this cult, if you notice like her body language towards Annie is she never is allowing her to walk away or leave. She's constantly grabbing her during this scene. And it's kind of the same way in the car where she won't stop grabbing onto the car. She won't let the car go. She just keeps holding on to it. Same way in this. She's every time Annie kind of moves a little bit, she like pulls her back. And which is just a nightmare. And oh man. Because people do that at work where they like to talk real close, and then I kind of move and they get closer, and I'm like, Oh god. And we know who we're talking about.

SPEAKER_03: 56:56

We both know who we're talking about.

SPEAKER_04: 56:59

And if they're listening, they'd be like, I wonder who they're talking about.

SPEAKER_00: 57:01

Well, I'll have like my earbud in one ear, so I'll turn my good my open ear.

SPEAKER_04: 57:06

And they turn to the other ear.

SPEAKER_00: 57:07

Yeah, they keep going. I'm like, uh we just turn in circles. Yeah. So fucking weird.

SPEAKER_04: 57:14

But a lot of those people that do that do not have a sense of boundaries. And it's something we talk about. Their lack of sense of boundaries. Yes. Um, so yeah, then Joan invites Annie over to witness a seance firsthand. Joan seemingly makes contact with Lewis, who uses a glass and a chalkboard to communicate. Joan assures Annie that she uh she can conduct a similar conjuring herself by using a personal item from the deceased, reciting a cryptic incantation and making sure that her entire family is in the house during the summoning. Annie hears a clucking sound while driving home afterwards and freaks out. Great scene. So fun. It's a little spoopy. Very spooky. Especially when like the wind blows in her face, because you know that's either I'm assuming that's the demon just going, It's the devil. Just blowing in her face. And like the the slight movement of the glass and the chalk, and it's like, it's so perfect. That's so cool. And it's even better that it was practical effects. It wasn't fucking fake. So great. And it's obviously Paymon doing it. It's no Luis or anything because as we learned, Jones is a big fat liar. So Annie wakes that night to find a swarm of ants leading to Peter's dead body. Fun! Annie wakes from a sleepwalking trance over her son's bed, prompting a conversation with Peter. Peter asks why Annie is seemingly scared of him. Annie involuntarily confesses that she never wanted Peter's at a Peter to be Peter's mother immediately grasped her face. And it's like, when that happened, I was like, shit. Well, I don't know what the next morning's gonna look like. But then we'll figure out. Um, and tried to have a miscarriage. Her mother pressured her into having a kid. Annie suddenly wakes to discover she was experiencing a vision within a vision. Yeah, that was cool. Um but it happens once because either like yelling at each other, and then you see Peter's soaking wet, and then we're like, Annie's soaking wet, and then the flames come up, and then she wakes up and it's great. Yeah. Um, and the scared face Annie has where she's like, it's so funny. It's kind of comical. It is a little bit, but it's also scary. Yeah. There's an she does another face whenever her husband catches on fire. But the funniest part of this movie is Peter in the basement yeeting himself out of a window. Because this is like you see a cultist and you're like, I'm out of here. Yeah, we'll get there though. So Annie recites Joan's incantation with Charlie's sketchbook while Steve and Peter are asleep, claiming she summoned Charlie. Annie excitedly wakes her husband and son for another seance. She starts the seance after much convincing. Because Steve's like, What are we doing?

SPEAKER_00: 59:52

Wake up in the middle of the night. We're talking to ghosts.

SPEAKER_04: 59:54

Yeah, it's like, hey, you know, you could have maybe just waited until they woke up in the morning, acted less Uh hysterical. Yeah. And she was just really excited. She's excited. She's excited. She's like, hey, we can talk to Charlie. And it's just like, Are you sure you want to do that? Poor Steve. Yeah. So she starts the seance after much convincing. The glass moves, but it doesn't seem to move as you know, as nicely and as slightly as it did at Jones. Annie tries to get Charlie to write in her sketchbook, but it doesn't do it. And then like a cabinet glass breaks, and the candle like blasts up. Steve's like looks under the table, like, what the I don't know how to explain this. Okay. And then and then this is also where we get Peter's being like, it feels like the air is constricting around us and stuff like that. And he's getting like super scared. Yeah. He's becoming childlike scared almost. He's crying. Fucking stop. He's also the one that convinced Steve to do the thing. And I think he was doing it for his mother. Oh, yeah. It seemed like Peter's like, let her do this. She obviously needs this. And it's like, Annie, it's real. He loves you. Like he this is he's wanting to help you cope with shit. Um, yeah. Then the cabinet breaks, and then Charlie seemingly becomes possessed by Annie. That was cool. Or Annie becomes possessed by Charlie because he's like, ooh. And as Steve's gets standing up from looking underneath the table, and it's like, good.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:24

This movie good. You're okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:26

Yeah. And then she starts talking like out of Charlie's Charlie's voice starts coming out of her, it seems. Um, and then uh she almost like seems like she's like, Why is everybody so scared? What's going on? Why is everybody angry and scared? And then Steve snaps Annie out by throwing water in her face. And she's like, Why'd you do that? Hey, why am I wet?

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:49

Such a bitch.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:50

And then he's got Peter like, it's just like, okay, what is happening to my life? Peter, stay with your friends. Yeah. Time to go. Just I just be like, Stay with a friend. Hey man, can I just stay at her house for a month, please? Uh, then we see more words written on the wall. Uh liftoach pandemonium? Pandemin? Something like that. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:13

Um, fun scene. Do you think this is the the incantation that she gave her? I think so.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:19

I think some of these, I think some of these are the words for the incantation. They are some of the sports. Or maybe it just uh it's like taking down barriers to hell. Yeah. Maybe like it's knocking the walls out, kind of like they have to do with the film sets. Yeah. Like how they have written all over everything. Yeah. That's why I kind of think it is, except it's instead of keeping the evil out, it's helping them draw them in. Nice.

unknown: 1:02:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:43

So during school, because you know, you just have to keep going to school apparently in this universe. I'd be like, I quit. It looks like shit. I quit school, mom. I'm sorry. I'm not going. I'm gonna tell you I'm going, but I'm just gonna travel.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:54

I'm just not going. You gotta do drugs instead.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:56

Um, this is where Peter finally sees the same strange light that Charlie previously saw in her bedroom, just kind of on the ground. Peter notices that his reflection looks back at him with a different expression. He's happy. Oh. King Paymon is free. He's allowed to do whatever he wants now. Because they said the incantation. Yeah. He's free to enter whoever and do whatever he wants.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:17

I love when his hand shoots up in the air. He kind of looks like he just got sassy for a second.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:21

Hey, I'm from hell. Uh you wanna my dad's Satan. Um uh Steve admonishes Annie for Peter becoming convinced that a ventral spirit is threatening him. Annie traces her studio in frustration when she accidentally breaks a tiny model chair after another voicemail from a gallery pressure her for about providing new pieces that night. Steve takes a lot of sleeping pills and sleeps on the couch. I love it. The voicemail. Hey, yeah, we're just calling because we're so worried about you and your family and all the things you've gone to. Anyway, so are you like ready for this thing?

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:59

Well, he also he also said, like, we can push it back, you know, no problem.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:03

He does not care at all about her emotions or feelings. It was just like we can push back, but hey, we need evidence that you're doing something. Because is that great? It's just that way of toning of like, I'm being fake, synth uh like sympathy, supportive, but actually, Bish need to get her stuff done.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:21

We got a deadline.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:22

Yeah. Um, so Charlie's spirit supernaturally draws in her old sketchbook. Peter sees a vision of his dead sister in the corner, and her head falls off, turning into a like a uh bouncy ball on the floor before being choked in his bed. Peter accuses his mother of sleepwalking and attacking him again because like the door closes because the dog's barking, and um and then like it cuts. We just hear Annie screaming and she's in there. It's like, what is wrong with you? He's like, You're trying to choke me. Crazy. And like Annie's like, no, no, no, no. Don't tell your dad that this happened, okay? I was not this time. I know I wasn't doing it, okay? So please don't tell Steve what happened. Annie goes on to explain that something supernatural is happening in the house, and she is the only one who can stop it. The window above Peter's bed has the mark that looks similar to the one in Charlie's classroom when struck by the bird. Oh shit. Yeah, baby. It's everywhere. I need glasses. Also, uh, when we rewatched Long Legs uh yesterday, uh I found all those hidden Satan.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:30

Nice!

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:30

Yeah, and it's so wild how obvious they are as soon as your brain is able to figure it out in the shape of the darkness. Well, yeah, I mean so good. Well, there's some that are so obvious it's insane that I after like twice watching it, didn't see it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:45

We will get to it in a second. It took me a I missed the time of whenever he's she's up in the corner. I had to rewind it. I was like, fuck because Ashley's like, Did you see it? I was like, see what? I saw I was like, I had to rewind it a little bit.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:57

Yeah, oh I know, I love that. And it seems like we're doing a lot of movies right now that has like hidden stuff in the background. Like I think it's really cool. From the ritual, House of the Devil, uh, long legs, and now this.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:10

It's so easy to miss the thing if you're if you're because your focus is centered on something in the middle. Yeah. And it's just like right off center. And it goes it's so easy for me to miss.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:19

And it goes to show that the like how well they're drawing you in through these characters because you're so focused on like what is happening in these characters' lives, it's hard to look outside uh their frame, like the them that's in the center. Um, yeah, so realizing that the spirit she summoned is not a good spirit, Annie throws Charlie's sketchbook into the fireplace. Annie's arm mirrors the burning book by also catching fire, forcing Annie to rescue the book. Hell yeah. And then fucking Steve said, You know what? I'm taking all the sleeping pills, one night of rest. So I just want one good night, and thank goodness he did, because it's his last good rest he'll have. Um, Annie returns to Joan for help. Um, and it's great because Peter wakes up the next day and he kind of gets on the very far side of the hallway to walk past his mom's room because, like, my mom is crazy. She's nuts. Don't come home, Peter. Please, for the love of God, do not come home. Um, and the camera, you sh you get a visual of Annie in the bedroom, just like waiting for him to leave so she can run out the door next. Because he goes to Jones for help, but no one's there, and she does not go inside Joan's residence. The camera shows us Joan's place is decked out in witchcraft paraphernalia, including a photo of Peter inside a ceremonial cert triangle, like we saw in uh Lee's room. Uh, Charlie's little sculptures and figurines that she made. And then also the symbol of Payamon, Paymon, uh, kind of, you know, like in like almost like a little treehouse. Yeah, that was neat. Like birdhouse looking thing. Um and then Annie recognizes uh symbol on the little bat, a little door mat, because earlier she said, My mother had doormates, made door mats just like this. Yeah, and she's like, I should go back and investigate my mom's stuff, you know?

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:06

Yeah, it's wild that it's the first time you go through it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:10

Yeah, and then um we cut to Peter just eating lunch outside, and old Joan comes out. It's like, Peter, I expel you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:19

Peter's like, anybody else? Yeah, no, no one else heard it. Nobody else hearing this? It's crazy lately. That must happen a lot. I guess. She's always there screaming shit. I mean, who knows?

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:30

Maybe like all these cult members that's been sitting outside this school for like 10 years or something, just like, hi. Yeah, we're just yelling at these kids. Uh, but yeah, he's like expelling them. It's from a distant behind a fence. She yells to Peter to get out, and he just keeps looking around, like nobody's noticing. But then, like in the movie, there's kind of when he says Peter, get out, he kind of shoots and looks to the left and like nobody's there. But it almost kind of has that same feeling to when uh the possession happens to Annie and how Peter says like the air is constricting, and almost is kind of that feeling that he had. Um, it's really great. And then Peter's like, Well, I guess I better go to class.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:12

Doesn't he start following the pulsing light around school?

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:16

Um, yeah, this all kind of happens at the same time through a couple of scenes. Um but then we uh Annie learns that the symbol is associated with the demon. Uh Paimon, one of the kings of hell. Annie also finds photos of Joan with Ellen revealing that Joan and Annie's mother were in the same coven devoted to gaining riches by conjuring Paimon in the male body. We see Lee being uh dosed with gold in a wedding dress, making her marriage to Paymon. She is queen. I also have one more picture that I have to read. So when successfully invoked, King Paymon will possess the most vulnerable host. Only when the ritual is complete will King Paymon be locked into his ordained host. Once locked in, a new ritual is required to unlock the possession. Um, yeah. And essentially it needs a male body. So, and then in that book it continues to read that uh it pre the face of Paymon is not really said to be male or female, it just prefers to be in a male body. Uh, because you know, uh back in the day, nobody liked women, you know. When they're writing all these books and shit, they're all like, women suck, dude. So there's always this like, yeah, women can't have any power or any control. Everything's gotta be happening with a man's body because it's the only thing that matters.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:36

Plus, if it was in like an adult woman, they would be like, Oh, she's on her period.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:41

Yeah. Like trying to take over the world. She's already got too many demons in her. But it's got hysteria. It said, uh, like later in that book, it also says that um, like when it is put into a female's body, it uh becomes angry. It doesn't like to be possessed, it doesn't like to possess a female, it just becomes very vengeful and angry. Which is what it's doing to them because it possessed Charlie and it's possessed onto her soul, which is why it's able to move around and why whenever Paymon does come up, it's in the form of like Charlie's and things like that because it's possessed onto her. That's cool. And so when Charlie goes into Annie, it's Charlie and Paymon into Annie and then comes out. Damn. Yeah. So fun. So Peter continues to walk through school following the light of Paymon. We see a man motioning Peter through a door while Steve gets emails about uh Ellen Lee's grave being dug up. Annie discovers Ellen's headless corpse in her house attic. Uh above is a simple Paymon. Fun. Just like undoes the thing, tons of flies. Oh no, no, it's it's the mother's. Okay. Yeah. Um, and at the same time, Peter is in class and starts to hearing Charles Charlie's click. Then his hand contours up and he looks like he's having a stroke essentially.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:03

And then he starts slamming his head on the desk and wakes up screaming. A24 just like this is the movie that I remember started the character smashes head on desk. Oh wow. Doesn't long legs, talk to me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:16

This movie and a couple other movies uh I can't remember the end by do you think if you even if you tried that you could smash your face into something hard enough? I could do it once to like hurt your nose. Couldn't do it twice? Yeah. I do it once.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:30

I ow.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:31

But I think I would have I would like resist myself. Like because you know you like you can't bite off your own finger. Right. I mean, you probably could.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:39

If you really wanted to. You have to be desperate though, right? It's like in long legs, he was desperate to kill himself. He's like, I did everything I can do. I don't want to stay in a jail though. Yeah. It's like um, so at the uh yeah, it's great. Also, when he wakes up screaming and you see Bridget like looking at him, kind of like terrified, and that's where I'm like, mate, maybe she's not in it, or maybe she was a part of it, and she's like, ooh, I actually kind of liked him, and this cult's kind of creepy now. I don't know. I don't trust Bridget. So Annie stands in the pouring rain below the treehouse with Ellen's scrapbook, and we see that Peter's room behind her in the real house does not exist. Damn. I don't know if you noticed that. No. Yeah, I noticed it this third time. Because I paused it and I was just trying to see if there's anybody in the windows or something. Cause you know, I know that there's people sometimes hidden throughout the movie. And then uh also paused it earlier when it was on her model of the house. And so when you see the house, there's a section added on uh in the model where it's like kind of on stilts and that's where Peter's room is. Then when you cut outside, there is no Peter's room. Damn. So it's like, that's cool. Does that mean anything? Or is it just one of those things where it's like Ariaster's like, all right, this is the house we have, we're just gonna trip people out. And it gives you that kind of shining idea where it's like nothing makes sense. This house doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:03

And it yeah. And it doesn't really, you don't even have to notice it for it to make you feel uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:09

Yeah, it's just like there's something wrong here. Um, and then so Steve brings Peter home. Annie approaches the car and is dry with no sign of a downpour, even though she was just soaking wet a few minutes ago. I didn't notice that either. Annie tells Steve that Ellen's corpse is in the attic, but it is now decapitated. Annie allows also shows Steve the photographs where Joan and Ellen are wearing a the seal of pay payment. Annie explains that their family became cursed when she tries tried contract contacting Charlie. Annie also explains the connection of Charlie's sketchbook, adding that Steve needs to destroy it in order to save Peter. Peter sleeps in his room in the background and is not wakened by the conversation.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:50

Um Steve's like, we should call the police. Why didn't you call the police? She could have been telling all of this to the police.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:57

Yeah, it's like, this is fucked up, dude.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:00

Great investigation.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:03

Well, Steve is like, all right, dude. And he's like, and he's he gets the book in his hand and he's walking towards the fireplace, and he's like, he's like, doesn't believe her anymore. And like the while her wild claims. Steve accuses Annie of digging up Ellen's grave because when going to the movies, and she's obviously been lying about that. When Steve refuses to burn the sketchbook, Annie throws it back into the fire, even though she presumes doing so will kill her. Instead, Steve spontaneously combusts. Annie is horrified, and then we see the light and her face changes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:34

It was kind of because right before she threw it in the fire, it's almost like she knew that he was gonna die from putting it in the fire. Well, she thought she was gonna burn.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:42

She thought the sketchbook was connected to her because she read the cantation. What she doesn't know is that it's she's catching on fire because of Paymon. Yeah. She's not catching on fire because there's a connection between this book. Paymon can do whatever he wants. But what he's trying to do is he's trying to weaken the family so that he can possess Peter. So everything is just slowly weakening, like his Peter's mental health, physical health, everything. By the time you see Peter at the end, it's just like, damn, dude, dude been through a war. Take a nap. He looks terrible. But I just remember like when she threw it in, I was like, damn, she's gonna die. And then I was like, oh fuck. And then the light and then she's got like a horrified, crying face, and then the light flashes, and then she's like, uh, and now she's possessed by Payman. So then outside the house, it turns uh from daytime or nighttime and a or outside the house, it goes from day to night, and there's a bunch of naked people outside, and then we cut to Peter's room. I just love the the fucking switch to nighttime, it's so good. And there's like naked people, yay, orgy incoming. Um, with his possessed mother hovering in the corner above his head, Peter gets up to search the house. We see the tree house lit up and his mom scurrying out of the room. It's so good. It's like a little spider almost. When Peter leaves his room, the ladder to the attic is withdrawn and not there because last time we saw it, it was down. Peter finds his father's charred corpse while his mother is hovering on the ceiling again, just as she does. Peter turns away from his father's corpse, and we see a naked, smiling man from the funer from the funeral that we earlier saw. Yeah. And and he doesn't do anything. He doesn't say he just smiles. All right. It's like that uh episode. Uh what's the episode? I didn't really watch uh How I Met Your Mother, but there's I just remember one episode where um what's his name? Uh I don't know. I didn't remember. He was a child actor. He's in Gone Girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh uh he's he talks about yeah, he's like, you know, just uh go to the girl's house, and then when she comes back in the living room, just be naked. It's like that guy really took it. He really liked that episode of How I Met Your Mother. Took too long to make the joke. Sorry. Um, then the mother disappears from one corner of the room and runs from a different corner because like, look up, it's like, oh, she's not there. And then it shows the other, and you're like, wait, is that her? And then she's like, twist.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:21

And he chases Peter to the attic. The ladder to the attic is now down when it just wasn't a second ago. And he jumps up and furiously pounds her head on the attic. That was awesome. After Peter climbs the ladder and retracts it into the upstairs ceiling, while the mother is pounding her head. Peter desperately yells that he is sorry and begins to call her mommy like a child. Peter is completely lost and weak now.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:44

Yeah, some fucked up shit happening to Peter.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:47

Yeah, and look, the mother, God, God, that was great.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:50

Creepy. Because Ashley was what she looked away on her, she was on a phone call and she looked back. She goes, Is she possessed or something?

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:56

And then she's like, wham, wham, wham. I think so. This is a new therapy. They decided not to do conventional, obviously.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:04

Now they're trying to kill each other. Just in case you need to lock yourself in the attic.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:13

And I think it was because they thought like the mom was crazy. So they're like, this is somewhere the kids can go if she has a breakdown. Yeah. Same through. In deleted scenes, it's shown that um Peter actually has like a deadbolt lock in his own room that he locks because he's scared of his mother. Yeah, hell yeah. Yeah. Apparently, this this movie, there's a three-hour cut and it's just a lot of family dialogue was cut out of it. Kind of glad because I don't think I could handle any more family drama. So, Peter in the attic, Peter finds flies, candles, and a photo of his face with eyes punched out. Ellen's body is gone, and he suddenly hovers above Peter before severing her own head with piano wires. Confronted by this horror and three undressed devil worshippers, Peter jumps out of the window. So funny. It's wildly comic. It's the way the music is, because you got her and she's just like and it's scary, and it's still scary. And then all of a sudden, like he hears a noise, he looks over, and the music kind of cuts out, but it feels kind of comical. And then they're just like, hey, we're naked. And then he's like, fuck it. And so Peter's head hits the ground below, uh, which seemingly knocks him out. Peter rises after the oddly glowing light seen previously hovers around his body and then dissipates into him. Now, Peter slash Charlie slash Paymon follows his mother's headless corpse as it floats into the treehouse.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:37

That was awesome. So good. Oh, I'd love to know how they've made that look so good.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:44

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:45

The body floating.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:46

It's either a dummy or this was like this. He he didn't completely not use CGI. He tried to not do it any time he couldn't. I mean, this could have been, but it looks so realistic. It is fucking cool. It could have been miniatures, who knows, right? Um oh man, the float, the floating corpse into the and it is it's like a UF getting sucked in by a UFO. So, here we go. An assembly of mostly evil devil devil worship, Burz in various states of undress, greets Peter inside the treehouse. There is one woman with long hair in a bathrobe. Charlie's decapitated head sits atop a statue of Paimon. Peter looks around with a dazed flat expression, and we're shown Annie and Ellen's headless bodies lie bowing on the floor, bowing on the floor in front of the statue. Joan's voice calls Peter Charlie as a woman crowns him but welcomes Peter as Paimon while the coven hails the demon's arrival. The story ends with a shot of a mottled treehouse filled with dolls that look like Peter, the Coven, and the headless Annie and Ellen. Ban and air. The end.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:52

Oh, we also see like a pic. I don't know if I said this, there's a picture that says Queen Lee. Yeah, I did see that. And that's like, you know, when we saw earlier a picture of her in a wedding dress and so he married his grandma.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:03

That's so sweet.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:04

Technically, yeah, he's kind of married to his dead grandma.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:07

Um, yeah, a little so at least he's not gonna talk of him to death. I'm already right.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:14

Dang, Tuts, you talk so much, I had to cut your head off. But yeah, so uh I feel like uh everything kind of came together in the explanation of the plot about what the coven was doing and everything, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:28

Yeah, yeah. It was it was great. It's pretty great. There needs to be a spin-off series, Teen Demon.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:33

Yeah. You can call it Peter slash Charlie slash Paymon and their adventures.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:39

It's like the the adventures of Teen Just and Teen Payment.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:44

All I need is a million dollars in an eight ball. Come on now. It's teen just y'all. Teen just like what does that mean? It's teen Jesus.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:58

Uh well, didn't expect us to be talking about that at the end of it. Uh anyways, movie, great. Jason, what's the point?

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:07

Uh I think it's uh about what happens in the what you do when you're hit with the extreme grief of losing uh a child.

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:17

Yeah. Really? Loved one and child, especially so close together, right? I mean, if you lose your parent and your child at the same time, it's like well and you have another kid, it's like, well, I already feel like a kid who just lost a parent, and now I gotta take care of these kids, and then one of my kids die, and it's like, who do I go to? Yeah, right. It's like you're stuck in this in-between of being having to be a parent, but also wanted to be sad like a child. Yeah. Which is kind of crazy. It's gotta be tough.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:46

Drives the parents apart, you know, it's like ruin your marriage.

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:49

Yeah. It's like I think about it all the time how my grandma on my dad's side, she saw so many of her kids die of cancer. God damn. And I'm just like, I mean, at least like four kids maybe die.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:01

I think.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:02

Maybe it was just three. But like, you know, as a kid, I was sad because you know, my uncles are dead. Yeah. But now, like as an adult, I'm like, fuck. Having to go through that must have been crazy. Like, what? And then, like, you know, you kind of remember all the times where she's like, she can barely stand up because she's just excess exhausted from crying. And I'm like, I get this movie. But yeah, I said the point of the movie, generational pain and suffering. We pass down our demons from one generation to another, whether it be mental or other, but also there's the coping with grief and uh the loss of loved ones.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:36

Yeah. That was deep. It's all hereditary, baby. Alcoholism, too. Yeah, I did put that too, but I was like, man, I think I'm pretty sure I brought up alcoholism like five times in a row. Um, but yeah, good movie, make me stressed. Uh, also fucking metal, baby. It was awesome. So good. I love how it's like, what's the point of the movie? Generational pain and suffering. Five seconds later, movie metal, baby. It good, love it. Um, so let's discuss categories. There's the good, the bad, the ugly, the fine. It's where we discuss something good about the film, scene, acting, whatever, the bad, something we didn't like about the movie, the ugly, something that didn't age well, the fine, something that did age well. The good for me, Tony Collette and Alex Wolfe, fucking good actors, man. Yeah, they really are. They're good in everything they do, and they'll probably always be good at acting. Uh also a movie that hides things in the background.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:31

Yeah, and that's that's kind of what I was thinking was my good is the the set design. Just the house is beautiful and just like the weirdness of everything, the light, the way they like some of the stained glass windows. Like sometimes it was obviously nighttime, but there's still lights shining through the window.

SPEAKER_04: 1:25:49

It was so weird. It was like it was always so it almost seemed like there was a full moon every night. Yeah. And I had a hard time deciphering sometimes on like, is it is it morning time? Like, you know, times where she got got up and was to go to the treehouse, and it's like in the house, it looks like it's daylight, like twilight. And then you go outside, it's dark. And I'm like, I don't and it just I don't know. I felt like more these couple times I watched it, I was like, Arias playing a trick on us in like every instance. He's trying to trick us on feeling uncomfortable about being like, what's happening?

SPEAKER_00: 1:26:27

Yeah, it's the illusion of uh just the illusion was great. And I did you notice there's a coffee, it's like a I don't know if a coffee table, but it was like an it was this weird like stand thing, and it was made of like a growing tree, but it had houses inside the tree that were growing. Dude, I did it and like is this in Charlie's room? Or no, it was just like uh there's it's in like the uh foyer. Oh, gotcha. Foyer.

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:56

Oh, I think I know what you're talking about. Yeah, because there's cause little things like that. Sometimes there's random miniatures in areas. It's probably something she made. And it but it felt odd for them to be there, and it sometimes felt like they weren't there, yeah, and then other times they were there.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:11

Yeah, I just I love that. All those little details and you know, she was building all those little dioramas. I just thought it was really great. Yeah. Everything went along with the story.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:21

Yeah. And it's always fun because with things like that, because it's like, did they just actually screw up while making the movie and this didn't have good continuity, or is it just like, is it there on purpose? But I feel like when there's movies like this that are so well crafted, it's like it's gotta be on purpose, right? It's like the shining when everybody's always like, oh man, this the layout doesn't make any sense. Like, was it a mistake, or was it, is he just like a master director? And it's like, have you seen his movies? I think he's a really good director and has ideas. All right. So what do you got for the bad? I put honestly nothing. The only thing I had that it might be bad is that the movie's kind of hard to fully grasp everything on first watch. You know, when you make a movie and people got to come out of it and are gonna think something about it, when you make a movie where there's so much hidden context, like with especially with like the horror stuff and what's happening with the cult, some people may miss that and they'd be like, I don't get what this movie is.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:21

Yeah, that's true. A lot of that uh stuff goes over my head because I'm so focused on what's happening.

SPEAKER_04: 1:28:27

Yeah, the emotions of it. Like you're because this movie's so emotional, it's like fucking hitting you with a hammer over emotions, it's like you can't concentrate on anything else.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:37

Well, maybe their idea is that maybe the viewer won't catch everything, but when they do catch something, it'll be really meaningful.

SPEAKER_04: 1:28:44

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:46

So that's kind of neat.

SPEAKER_04: 1:28:47

But it's also because I think about asking people, like, hey, did you like this movie? And people are like, I don't know, man. I thought it was gonna be it seemed more like a family drama and not as much of a horror movie, and it's you know advertised more like a horror movie. And so when you hide a lot of like the horror elements, it's like some people will come out of the movie being like, I I just thought it was alright. There's too much talking or something, which it is you know, some people don't want that, right? They just want to go see a fun horror movie, so it's like that could be the bad. Like, you know, people come out with the wrong opinion about the movie because they have to kind of do a little bit of homework almost. Yeah. I don't know. Do you have anything for the bad? Did you already answer?

SPEAKER_00: 1:29:25

Not really.

SPEAKER_04: 1:29:25

Um I'm talking so much.

SPEAKER_00: 1:29:27

It's fine. Uh nothing. I couldn't really I didn't really find anything that I didn't like fully enjoy. I thought it was a solid A plus movie in terms of that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:29:40

Pretty cohesive. Yeah. Uh for the ugly I put being a parent, man, it's gotta suck.

unknown: 1:29:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:29:46

It's like it's good when it's good, but man, if it gets bad, what do you do?

SPEAKER_00: 1:29:50

But that makes it all the more heartbreaking whenever you see things like that happen to kids. Yeah, it's like And it makes you angry at the parents.

SPEAKER_04: 1:29:58

Yeah, but it's like Be nice to your kid. Their brains aren't fully developed yet. You have to be the adult. Cause like while watching this, I was thinking, I was like, man, I wonder how Jason's thinking this movie. This is gotta be very stressful for him, the way she's handling her relationship with her kids.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:16

Yeah, it's it yeah, it does kind of bring to light the things you say to your kids when you're you know you don't really mean to. Yeah. You know, it makes you think about being more careful.

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:26

Yeah. And there's a bit of like selfishness, I feel like, to Annie a little bit about um, you know, the fact that she didn't want the kids and like she's kind of putting her frustrations and emotions forward more instead of thinking and taking a step back, being like, Look, my kid been through some shit, right? And sometimes when I think about like, oh, you know, people are like, Are you gonna have a kid? And I'm like, I feel like I'm too selfish to have a kid, you know? But I mean that could all change when I had if I have one, you know. So, you know, just the stresses of being a parent doesn't age well, I guess, for me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:57

No, yeah, it's it's rough, dude.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:59

Yeah, um, did you have anything for the ugly? It's hard because I mean it's it's in your life. It is kind of difficult.

SPEAKER_00: 1:31:09

Um but yeah, I'd I'd probably say that would be like I feel like maybe she was being a little out of touch. Yeah. And that sucks to see that. Yeah. It's just, but you know, that's that's the move. That's the movie. That's the movie, baby.

SPEAKER_04: 1:31:25

Hey, this is cinema. This is what happens. Uh for the fine, I put Ari Aster crushing his first film. And honestly, uh, it also could go in the ugly. It's like, man, when you make your first film a masterpiece, it's tough to keep making movies.

SPEAKER_00: 1:31:40

Maybe this isn't the masterpiece, maybe this is just a little taste.

SPEAKER_04: 1:31:43

Yeah. Um, it's tough because, you know, like this is the movie that I have the least amount of problems with of his movies. I love the other two, don't get me wrong. But in terms of, you know, fully forming everything perfectly, this does it well. Uh, with Midsummer, you know, it's they're almost kind of like two pieces together. It's all about grief and stuff, and Midsummer too, and just like a weird, different cult going through it, right? And there's also relationship shit in it. Um then Bo is afraid. It's kind of the same thing a little bit too, but his movies get bigger, but also a little messier versus how I think this was smaller and is well condensed. Yeah. You know, uh narratively, right? Yeah. Bo is afraid. You're like, I don't I mean, I feel like I know what it the movie is, but I don't know, it's three hours of wackiness. Um, what do you got for a find? Something that age well for you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:32:38

Miniatures. Yeah. I always love to see miniatures.

SPEAKER_04: 1:32:41

Like small things are cool when we're big ourselves.

SPEAKER_00: 1:32:45

And when you can use it for horror, like I know. Like little kid putting scary dolls in like scary situations in the dollhouse. You're like, why is a kid playing like that? That's weird.

SPEAKER_04: 1:32:57

You know what? You need a parent that pays attention to you more.

unknown: 1:33:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:33:02

Um, also, I it another thing that aged well is like the fact that they use miniatures in this movie and probably used it for certain areas in the movie. It's like how we used to make movies, you know, using miniatures, and it's fun.

SPEAKER_00: 1:33:14

Making them look the same.

SPEAKER_04: 1:33:16

And it's crazy, like, because you know, when you watch older movies like Hitchcock films, you can be like, that's obviously a miniature car movie. And in this like on a popsicle stick. And in this, you can't tell the difference between what's real and what's a miniature, and it's it's unnerving. It's unsettling. Yeah, exactly. All right. So, Jason, we're gonna hit up our next category, and it's where we recommend a movie to go alongside this movie. Um, I decided to go with something not horror-related because you know, Thanksgiving's around the corner. And this next movie takes place during Thanksgiving. It's called The Ice Storm. It's actually directed by Aang Lee, who did um Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Cool. Hold Brokeback Mountain, you know, all good movies. And bro, it is great. It's just about kind of just a couple and they're failing marriage a little bit, and you know, they're they're so wrapped up in their own personal issues that they're not paying attention to these kids, and these kids are acting strange. Um, and then there's something horrible happens at night. One night during an ice storm. Um, dude, the movie's so good. The drama and it's great. Yeah, I can't wait to watch it. Yeah, I think it's on it used to be on Max. It doesn't look like it's on anything now. It's a Criterion film, which I own. If you ever want to watch, nice. We will eventually do it though. All right. Yeah. Cause I there's something about just uh, you know, uh boomer drama, you know, from back in the day. It's fun. Because, you know, their experiences are different than ours, and it's fun to see that through film. Nice. Yeah. So what do you got for yours? Uh well, the shining. Yeah. Perfect. There's a lot of similarities between the shining and hereditary.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:01

Yeah, I love seeing Jack Nicholas just uh go insane. Yeah. I know. And talk about like a slow-paced movie, but is this so good. And I worked at a um hotel up in Yellowstone where they claimed that some of the s a few scenes that were shot in that hotel. I don't know if it's true, but the hotel was very spooky and it looked a lot like the hallways, especially. Oh, nice. And I don't know, it was very creepy walking around in there. Beautiful hotel is the old, old faithful inn.

SPEAKER_02: 1:35:38

Yeah. Uh that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:40

Did you experience any ghosts? I did not. Do you believe in ghosts? Uh, I don't know. Yeah. It's kind of I used to believe. I used to believe in them, but I don't really see some weird things happen. There's some weird shit. Weird things happen.

SPEAKER_04: 1:35:52

And I just like I just want to be a ghost. I want to high-five a ghost, then I'll know it's real. Then it's just like, man, if humans can be ghosts, I mean, dogs have to be ghosts too. And if they were ghosts, you'd be like, dude, shut up in the corner of my room. Stepping in ghost shit. It's like oh in your yard. It's your whining all the time, be like, stop. Just constantly gotta get up, let a ghost dog outside. You can go through doors. You're a ghost.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:17

Yeah, but you you need to do that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36:19

That'd be like if the worst thing ever is if my little dog snake was to just come back as a ghost. Like every time you come over five minutes before you get here, he starts barking. It's like, I got it when you're alive. Even though I didn't, I don't understand how you know when someone's five minutes down the road and you start barking. But now, as a ghost, you're still doing it. Unless it's like a ghost bark, like, ooh, roof, ooh, ooh, woof, oof, ooh. I'd be like, okay, now we're just gonna have to make this an Airbnb and you're gonna make us money.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:52

I mean, ghost cat would be worse, just logging shit off the shelves all the time.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36:56

That's true. Because then it'd be like, well, is this a human ghost or cat ghost? But then, like, you're laying in bed, then all of a sudden, be like, like this ghost. Like this ghost. Alright, you can stay. Yeah. All right, man. That is our discussion on hereditary. I guess we should tell them what we're doing next. It's a movie. Not gonna lie, no one probably has heard of that we're doing this. This is gonna be our least listened to movie, um, unless people actually, you know, watch it. Um, it's called The Empty Man. Yeah, I've never heard of it. It came out in 2020, like right at the start of uh COVID. Uh, they couldn't release it, um, obviously in theaters at the time. Oh I have a feeling this is gonna be a movie that people are gonna be like, actually, I hated this one, man. Uh it's slow, it's uh has some similar it's a lot of similarities to Long Legs and Hereditary Mixed Together. Uh on the trail of a missing girl, an ex-cop comes across a secretive group attempting to summon something. Neat. Uh bro, the first 20 minutes of this movie is so good. It's it's I mean, the whole movie's good, and there's some of my favorite visuals are in this movie. Like recent horror movie visuals. I can't wait to see it. Like it goes along a lot like with long legs and hereditary, where it's just like you see a visual and it's like, damn, I'm gonna think about that the rest of my life. Empty man. It mainly takes place at kind of like at this little cabin camp thing, the scene that I'm talking about. You'll know it. Is it a summer camp with teenagers? Uh no. Oh, and and big chetties. Nope. Oh my god, I'm just watching the trailer right now. I'm so excited. I can't wait. I'm gonna watch it tomorrow and take notes because I'm so excited to watch it. Yeah, join us next week for The Empty Man. Uh has the title of like the Bye Bye Man and like Slender Man, all these shitty movies that came out with a similar title, and it's way better than those, just to let you know. Um oh shit, I didn't even say the director of it. Uh The Empty Man.

SPEAKER_01: 1:38:56

Uh, it's directed by okay, that's fine.

SPEAKER_04: 1:39:01

Let's just fucking not bring up any of the things that I need to click on to get to the director. David Pryor, who uh worked alongside David Fincher a lot, um, he did a lot of like the behind-the-scenes stuff in all the David Fincher movies. Cool. So yeah, he has uh similar looks to Venture in this movie, so which is also great. So join us next week for that. Damn it, we're done with this podcast. Uh hey, leave us um, you know, some fan mail. Link in the description at the top. You can just click it, text us, or at the bottom. We recommend mailbag at gmail.com. You can send us an email through there. Just fucking do it. All right, and also, hey, you know you can leave reviews and rate our podcasts on whatever you're listening. Yeah, we're gonna do it. Or you can follow and subscribe.

SPEAKER_00: 1:39:47

Yeah, we're kicking ass.

SPEAKER_04: 1:39:48

Oh shit. Like on Spotify or in Apple. I can't really look at Apple because I have a Google phone, and Apple's like, we won't let you do it, dude. So annoying. Um, but yeah, we got like I think 12 on Spotify, and that's just the reviews. We got more listeners. So if you're listening, just hey, just simply click on some, give us five stars. Just fucking do it. Just kidding. Um, I like to thank Joey Proster for intro and outro music. You can follow him on next at Mr. Joey Proster. This has been the We Recommend Podcast. I'm Jesse. I'm Jason. Don't lose your heads out there, guys.