You Were Never Really Here

Paradise is a lie, and this week’s movie makes sure you feel it. We recommend You Were Never Really Here and then get honest about why it’s one of the most effective 90-minute films we’ve seen: a psychological thriller that treats trauma like the main character, not just backstory. Joaquin Phoenix’s Joe barely speaks, but every glance and every choice lands, and Lynne Ramsay’s direction turns editing, framing, and silence into pure tension.

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Music produced by Joey Prosser. X @mrjoeyprosser

Transcript

Welcome And The Movie Pick

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to the We Recommend Podcast, a movie podcast where every week we recommend a movie for you to watch, and then come back here and listen to us discuss. I'm Jesse. I'm Jason. Do you know what paradise is? It's a lie, a fantasy we create about people and places as we'd like them to be. Cause this week we recommend you were never really here. Whoa, that was deep. Yeah. I was gonna say something. I can't remember. We're doing a movie this dark and about things that kind of suck at 8 a.m. Oh god. Did you like the movie? I did. I really, really liked it. What an effective short ass movie that gets everything about the filmmaking correctly. Yeah. Like correct. And I feel like I don't know. It's wild. Because I remember the first time I watched it, I was like, whoa. That was like a perfect hour and 30-minute movie. And then when I rewatched it, I was like, shit, it really is a perfect hour and 30-minute movie. It's insane. It's this. Um, so

What Makes Joe So Compelling

SPEAKER_00 1:20

like uh what would what what was it that you liked about the film?

SPEAKER_01 1:24

I like Joe. Joe. Joe kicks so much ass.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Yeah, and you make you feel real bad for him.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Yeah, he was fucked up in the head.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

It's like if anything, everything bad that could happen to a person happened to this person.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah, man. And I don't like, I don't know what was going on with his medication situation, like why he was taking them. Probably for all the bad memories.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Well, he wasn't taking medication. That was for the like the people he was attacking so he could get information from one. Because you remember he gives the pill to the hitman. I thought he was just being nice. The hitman just kind of like starts telling him stuff. I guess I don't know what type of drugs would be a uh true uh truth serum drug, but it seems like that's what he was doing. Oh, what a fucking great scene. That was so cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

And I love his he's like reminds me of the wolf uh oh from Pulp Fiction Pulp Fiction, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

But like God, how you just his favorite weapon is a ball pee and hammer. And then whenever it cuts to like showing why that's what he uses, because that's what his father used on his mother, and it's just like this is dark, dude. I was just like, how are we gonna talk about this and be funny? And I was like, Well, how do we talk about it? We talk about so much and constantly laughing at it. Um man, I just think the the way of filming the violence is so effective in this movie. It's like whenever he's choking out the cop, the crooked cop in the motel hotel room after uh Nina gets taken, and it just like pants up to the um mirror. Yeah. And I was just like, whoa, it's like very similar to how in No Country Old Men, whenever you have Anton Shager like choking out the cop with his thing, and you get that aerial view, but this time it's like you're lower and you're up, and then it's just like I don't know, it just gave me the sensation of like this is jarring to watch. It's like because it's kind of a voyeur-esque type of look. And you know, we've talked about that before and how weird and exciting, but also scary that can feel to watch. I don't know. It's just and then also like forcing you to not because it kind of forces you to not be in there with the violence, almost kind of like maybe Joe kind of disassociates with all the violence and stuff like by filming through the security CCT

Violence Shown Through Distance

SPEAKER_00 3:45

camera. It's like we're not there and we're not seeing the violence, and it's almost like how he I feel like is just kind of blocking it out as he does all the violence. And I'm just like, whoa, this movie's perfect. How much fun is it to kill a bunch of pedophiles?

unknown 3:59

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

It's it's just like, give me this. Could have been a four-hour movie, yeah. I know that's why I was saying, like, with Donnie one, because Donnie's I was like, Donnie Darko. I was like, oh, this is kind of a good movie to go after that. Not like, because you know, there's obviously the pedophile and Donnie Darko, but also like the feeling of loneliness and like depression, and and then also, you know, it talking about pedophiles, this makes us think about what's going on in our world. And it's just like in 2017, I was like, oh man, what a fantasy. All these politicians being pedophiles, right? And then now it's like watching this movie, it's way more harrowing.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

What are they called? Those rooms where you go in and smash glass, uh just destruction rooms, something like that. They have one in Huntsville, those, but with pedophiles instead of faces and windows.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

If I was them uh like and I owned one of those, I would definitely like put up just tape a face to it. Tape Epstein's face to it, like uh the prints in London and stuff. Dude, they have um they have Saturday Night Live in in the UK now. So they have like a UK version. We watched it, and it's like they essentially kind of talk about the same stuff because you know they're also dealing with people being on the list over there. Yeah. But dude, the Saturday Night Live in UK is really funny. I'll have to watch that. I didn't know they had one. It's like the Are they allowed to have a Saturday? Yeah, I guess you know. I'm sure Lauren Michaels makes money off of it too. But it's really, you know, it's just kind of got that British humor. Um I love British humor, which is great. And the first episode has Tina Faye in it. Um that's cool. I think it's kind of like a great first host, but it the second episode when they actually have a British actor up there, it's uh Dorian, no wait. I can't remember his name. It's a guy that's uh in Fifty Shades of Grey, um the lead. Uh, but it's that guy. He's also in other yeah, he's also in good movies as well. He's a really good actor. He just it's kind of like everybody that was in Twilight where they ruined their careers immediately and had to fight their way out of it. Um but yeah, you should watch it as checking out. But it's just kind of funny them talking about the list and like the same things, but just seeing it from their perspective. It's so fun.

Dark Humor And Real-World Dread

SPEAKER_00 6:20

That's great. Um, well, back to the movie. So uh what what's your favorite walking Phoenix film?

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Oh man. I don't really know.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

I mean, uh I really liked him in The Gladiator. Yeah, he's great in that. Um he's kind of like my favorite actor, I think. He's really good. I can't remember another movie. He's in Walk the Line. He's great in that. He's in her. See, I never watched that one.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Napoleon, your favorite movie?

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Science. Napoleon wasn't that great of a movie, but it was cool.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Have you seen The Master? Uh-uh. Um, it's Paul Thomas Anderson movie. It's uh essentially a movie about Scientology, but it's not about Scientology. Nice, you know. Um, but essentially Philip Seymour Hoffman plays uh L. Ron Hubbard. Um it's also got Amy Adams. And um it's probably his best performance. Um, and then Bo is Afraid is another great performance, which we'll eventually do on here. He's also uh the creep guy in 8mm. Yeah. Which one day we will do on this pod once it's on something. Because I just want to watch a dirty ass movie. Kind of like this, right? Um he's also super good in her. I remember I was really bummed out he didn't win the Oscar for her. But he won it for Joker, which he is also really good in.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

But that movie has one thing I I thought was like crazy about her was it's about as far as I got anyway in the movie is when he's laying in bed and joined the like chat for people who just want to masturbate and go to bed.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Oh what was this him having sex with his AI girlfriend? It's a very relevant movie.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Well, no, like when when he like he just like queued up to be with to like listen to another person masturb like per masturbate at the same time. It was like right in the beginning. Oh man, I need to rewatch that.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

I don't remember because I remember there's the masturbation scene where it's like him and Scarlett Johansson and it's like like the skin the screen cuts to black, and it's just like you hear her like, uh yeah, yeah. And then he's just like uh it was just you know uh more artfully done than how I explained it.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

But and then the next morning is she really needy and like pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

No, not too long after that. She dips. Oh, dang, she's like, I became smarter than everyone on the planet. I gotta go. Yeah. Smart. It's honestly a really good uh uh allegory, metaphor for um a relationship from the perspective of a man because it's like, yeah, the woman kind of I kind of stayed the same. She got way smarter than me and left. There's also this point where she kind of like she dips and like he can't like contact her. So he's just kind of running around and panicking, and it's a perfect metaphor for whenever you're like starting to lose uh someone in your relationship.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Oh, I thought you were gonna say Wi-Fi. No, because that's the way I panic.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

That is, I'm always like running to my router. Oh my god, it's my day off. I need internet. What am I just gonna play games on my phone? What do you want me to do? Read a book? Am I gonna go drive somewhere and do something productive? No thanks. Um, so uh, how does this movie in your eyes do with representing PTSD? Accurate. Think it was pretty good? I thought it was pretty good. I don't have it, but I from what it seems like I talk to myself sometimes, like Jason, what the fuck are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Like that. Like when I get like lost in thought and you kind of have to ground yourself back to reality. But yeah, yeah, it happens, man.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Just like I have to sit there and try to like get all the bad thoughts out of your head, and then it's like, all right, clarity, finally. Exactly. Yeah, those are definitely probably the most um, well, one of the most affecting parts of this movie is this when he well, I don't know, puts a bag over his head and he's just like, Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Oh, I just supposed to remember the good old days. Yeah when his dad was still around putting bags on his.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

The movie does a really good job at like slow rolling like all the trauma he's done. Because you at first you just like see someone's foot scratching the ground. You may see him like in an FBI uniform, kind of like opening a door, and you just see like a visual, just like a second of children in a room, and you're like, they don't seem

Joaquin Phoenix Movie Rabbit Hole

SPEAKER_00 10:35

great.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yeah, or like one of those uh Oh yeah, the the con X things. Yeah, the giant the giant metal boxes they put on ships with the containers turn into a house, apparently. Yeah, in uh Afghanistan, there is whole like small little towns built out of stacked up shipping containers.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

A lot of different like countries do that. Um like in New Zealand. Well, like uh usually cults do it. Cults love to do that.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah, I've seen I've seen on TikTok where people will like bury one in their or bury three or four in their backyard and then make a like underground like living situation with them. Kind of like Hobbit style. I love it. That's so dope. That's the coolest the coolest man cave.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

I'm just gonna go bury myself. That is like if I was a millionaire, I'd want like a tunnel system. And it'd just be like it'd be great as like a little fun house situation, like have the house above, and then you go underground, and there's this whole other house, and then it's also keep people there against their will. It's a great tornado shelter, it's also a great bomb shelter. It would just be amazing, you know? That's but I don't get to have that money. Just make sure you ventilate it well. Unless you like and subscribe, and then we get plenty of listeners, and then you could start a Patreon, and then I'll start a bomb shelter and I'll let it and then there'll be a tier where it's just like if you pay a thousand dollars a month, if a nuclear bomb's coming, you can come over to our place. Our numbers just go all the way up to like a million followers, and it'd be like, hell yeah. I'm gonna have to build a really big bomb shelter. We have a million people giving us a thousand dollars a month. You could buy that whole field behind your house. I know. You know how like that field connected with that house is over a million dollars. Dang, that's cool. I guess. If you can afford it, I think it's been on sale for like two to three years at this point. Nobody can afford anything. So, according to director Lynn Ramsey, the scene where Walking Phoenix characters lie down on the floor next to the agent and begin singing and holding hands was improvised by Phoenix.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Oh yeah, that was a really touching scene.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Weirdly. It's like weird that it's touching, and it also infuriates me that it's a little touching because it's like, well, this guy works for a pedophile and he just killed his mom and like his coworker was helping him find all these winter girl little girls. But then it is just like, but there's just something like sucks that people have to die at the same time. Something very human about it. And that uh the song that's playing there, it's uh very eerie song. Like if you just I had I had the uh subtitles on and it's all about like submitting to like a king or like a man or something like that. It's weird how all the songs in this movie are like from the 50s and 60s. That was really cool. I like it to it's maybe like the third or fourth song where I was like, what what decade is this? But it's almost kind of like he's stuck in like in his childhood almost. Yeah. Because of you know, his trauma. It kind of shows that he's stuck in this one moment of time.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Was there a song playing while his dad was murdering the whole family?

SPEAKER_00 13:52

I can't remember. I don't either.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

But I did like that how they kind of overlapped it over violence. That was fun.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Yeah, it's a great um con uh contrast, I guess. So in this is uh this was a novel novella, and in the novella, You Were Never Really Here by Jonathan Names, the main character Joe uses a lot of props like latex gloves and gadgets. Lynn Ramsey stated that it was Walking Phoenix who suggested a get rid of most props to keep the character more authentic. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, what is this guy supposed to be like? Some James Bond-esque character in the most darkest like universe.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Yeah, I like that they kept this simple.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yeah, just need some duct tape, uh, some sodas for the kids to get, uh, and some like makeup remover and um a ball pen hammer. Yeah. It's funny that we, you know, we listened to last podcast, and uh one of the last series we listened to was about the the hammer. The hammer brothers. Ugh. So, according to Rolling Stone, Wonkee Phoenix has stated that Lynn Ramsey gave him an audio fire of fireworks mixed with gunshots to suggest what's going on in Joe's head. Mm-hmm. Um and so the film marks the second time Radiohead guitarist and Grammy Award-winning and Academy Award-nominated composer Johnny Greenwood scored a Lynn Ramsey film, the previous being We Need to Talk About Kevin, which is a school shooting film, I believe. The film also marks the third time Walking Phoenix appeared in a film scored by Greenwood, the first two being Paul Thomas Anderson's The Master, which I talked about, Inherent Vice, which was in 2014. That's kind of like a uh it's like if a PI uh did too much acid in his life. Um it's a very convoluted and complex movie that I loved because I read the book first, which is something I usually didn't do, and the book was way more confusing. There's just like a billion people in the book, and you have to remember their names, and then it there's one point, and it happened exactly in the movie too, where I was like, What's happening? But it was funny. I was like, ah, I think this is kind of like the point of the story is it's just like you're supposed to be as confused and like crazed as the lead character, and it's very effective. Intriguing. Um, so Alessandro Navola was cast as a different character in the film and performed all his scenes under that belief. This is the guy that plays the Governor Williams. Oh shit. Uh the guy that at the end of the movie had his throat slit. I don't know why I didn't say that for the podcast. You can't see me. It was only midway through production when someone told him that Lynn Ramsey had decided that he was actually portraying a different character. Oh no. Navola called this the most fucked up weird gaslighting experience I've ever had. As a result, he refuses to watch the film. Of Ramsay, he says, She's a legendary filmmaker. She's a little nutty.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, I can see that.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

I'm playing a governor.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Oh, wait, what am I doing? It's like, whoa, I've got all these pictures of little girls. These must be my daughters. Uh this is fun. Oh, wait. No.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Yeah, that would definitely suck.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Be like, cuts his own throat.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

It's like, you know, I actually didn't never want to play a pedophile in my career, and now I am, and I didn't even know. Hey. Yeah. This is why actors, you should read the books. Unless she just like completely unless it was one of those things where it's like, oh, he's not gonna play this character, and then like halfway through production, she's like, you know, actually, let's just have him play the character, and we'll scrap his actual character that we originally had him, and now he's this. I don't know. It's not like he has any lines. Yeah, that's true. I don't think we hear him talk at all, except for like on TV during a fight scene once.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah, I I actually I thought it was the governor was Voto at first. Because they look so like kind of similar.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Yeah, wasn't that weird? Um Voto is a senator. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Um, so there are several changes made to the film from the novel, most notably the ending in the novel Senator Voto. Spoiler if you want to read it. Um, Senator Vato does not die until the end, and Joe does not end up rescuing Nina. Rather, he confronts confronts Voto at the mansion, where it is revealed that Votto intentionally sold her into slavery so the mob would boost his political career. He then had his wife killed to keep the truth from being getting out and then covered it up to look like a suicide. His mission now turned into a personal vendetta. Joe kills Votto and then heads to Philadelphia, where Nina has been moved, thus ending the novel on a cliffing.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

God damn, that's a crazy movie too.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Um This movie like, uh, show don't tell. This movie is such a show don't tell type of movie. It's wild. It doesn't, it's like you don't have like Joe going to therapy and just like explaining everything that's ever happened to him. It's literally like whenever he's on the train, right? And it's towards the end of the movie, and he's like gonna go to Williams to just like murder the hell out of him. Um and then he got in a like sees Nina's reflection in the uh window of the subway car, and then it just kind of cuts to like different like little scenes, Votto in the same room as Williams, and then it he just like kind of stares at the camera and it's just like

PTSD Depiction And Sound Choices

SPEAKER_00 19:10

that fucker.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Yeah, maybe you think he had schizophrenia.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Yeah, and it's like But he's just going through the clues in it, like connecting the dots and it's a way that he can it's like the opposite of the Agatha Christie novel where like the person's like, I'm gonna lay everything out for you, which I also do love in those movies.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

But especially when they do it in that 20s voice.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Yeah. I just assume all Agatha, I know like sh sh I don't know when was Agatha Christie writing? Was it as early as the 20s?

SPEAKER_01 19:48

I think if more people delivered news that way, like on TikTok, it'd be more fun.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Uh her first novel is in 1916. So I can do this once, and it works out perfectly.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

You hear the noodles are in the pot and they're boiling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

But yeah, I just that I think that's what I appreciate the most about this movie is that it doesn't tell us anything. You just have to watch it and it works. Um, but for people who do not like that, are the ones that gave it bad reviews on IMDB. They're like, this movie's confused. I don't get nothing. They talk very much. Yeah, they talk like noids, little kid noise.

Fan Mail And Listener Feedback

SPEAKER_00 20:30

So we're gonna hop into the plot of you're never really here. Um, at the end, we do the point of the movie. If you have any idea what the point of the movie is, you can leave us some fan mail and tell us, and we'll talk about it next time on the podcast. There's a link in the description. It's at the top, you can click it. It says send us some fan mail, and at the bottom we have an email. We recommend at mailbaggmail.com. I said it all wrong. We recommend mailbag at gmail.com. Let's hop into 2017. You were never really here. Time for some fun things to talk about. Let's go!

Plot Recap Joe’s Brutal Routine

SPEAKER_00 21:05

The film opens with Joe in a motel with a bag over his head. Yeah, potential unaliving.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Woo! Or strangulation masturbation.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Yeah. Uh would have been a different turn for the movie if there was masturbation involved. Yeah. Especially with the content of the movie. Um, he is a hired gun who recovers missing trafficked girls for a living. After, man, I really feel like I shouldn't have that. He's uh blah blah blah. I thought he was just like a hired killer. Uh no, he's like he recovers uh girls. Yeah, and uh brutally hits people with hammers while doing so. Yeah. And it's great. It kicks out. And it's what all those people deserve. So uh after finishing a job, he cleans himself up, removes any trace of him being there, and he leaves. Uh he burns a picture, plastic cover over the fire alarm. You know I love my process, baby. Just like the shot to that. I was like, hell yeah. Um Sim car break and phone break with washing bloody hammer and throwing away Sandy's necklace.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

He's so tidy.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Yeah. I love that shit though. Oh.

unknown 22:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

What's the deal with with the necklace? Like that was I'm assuming that was the girl that he rescued. Yeah, but why would he still have? Or maybe what uh maybe that was actually maybe he didn't save that girl. Maybe she was already dead. I don't know. Um I think it's just kind of giving you the idea of like what he's doing. It's like, oh, Sandy's a girl. And he burns a little picture. So I it could be at first you could think, like, oh, did he kill a little girl named Sandy? Or you know, maybe like throws off, but then you like realize what he actually does. Um so Joe is attacked by a man in the alley, but Joe fights him off of these, headbutts the shit out of him. I love he heads butts him and then he just kind of like stares at him. And I was like, Whoa, this guy's unhinged. It's like a great way to show that he's like kind of weird. Yeah. Yeah. Um, or traumatized. He then goes to find a phone to confirm to his handler that the job is done. It's done. Walks away. Oh, love that shit. Um, we see a girl just staring at him at the airport where he made the call. It's like, there's a and I'm assuming so with like aspects of like that. Um, so you know, a little later. Yeah, I don't think she was real. It's probably Sandy. Uh no, just from the picture he burnt, it didn't look like Sandy. But I think because you know, like a little later he takes a picture with like some girls, and then all of a sudden, like they're kind of smiling, and then they start screaming and like look real sad. Yeah, they look terrified. Yeah, I'm assuming it's kind of that he's seeing like it's like his PTSD coming in, and it's just like a girl alone in an airport, I'm assuming getting trafficked. I don't know. Um, or it was just a girl in an airport and she was tired. But I I I think it was the first one. Um and then he gets into uh uh an on his way, like you have the taxi driver singing a song, and then it cuts to the taxi driver singing, but the audio cuts out, and you can see that he's singing. You were never really here. Oh, yeah. Love it, love it. Oh my god, this movie's so good. It makes me feel terrible, and it's so good at doing it. So Joe lives at home with his ailing mother uh in New York City. Uh, she's the only person Joe has in his life. He has a good relationship with her. She pranks him by pretending to be asleep. Indeed. Yeah, she's takes a glass of it. Gotcha. And he's like, this kid, this guy does not need anything. This guy does not need this in his life. Please don't do this to him. But it's like, I love all the little moments with his uh his mother. It's so sweet. And it makes him it gives this uh uh Avenger, like a soft side to him, right? Yeah, and then we'll realize a little later why he's so protective of his mom. Um she also watched Psycho. That's awesome. Which online gave a lot of people um many different interpretations of this movie. A lot of people are like, oh, is this movie is most of it not really happening? Does he have a weird relationship with his mother? Yeah, I think a little bit. I don't think he really has a I think he has a very protective relationship with his mother. Yeah. Uh because of what she went through with Hammer Father. And right now she's going through dementia or something, right? Yeah, she's definitely having like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Because he had like the back door radio where she couldn't open it.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah. I think that was so I don't think there's like any weird like sexual things with the mother. No, I don't either. Cause it seems like a lot of people were like, Did he have a weird sex thing with his mother? I was like, No, I think he had a very protective thing over his mother because hammer father. Um, so the next day he ices his shoulder, then acts like he is gonna drop a knife in his mouth. Super fun. Yeah. It's just like he's just so like, you know, if I die, I die. If I die, I die. With everything he does. But maybe he was practicing for this like sword swallowing. Yeah. I don't know. I used to join the circus. And then uh his mother's in the bathroom and she's like struggling in there with something. And I love that there's a part where he's like, he's like, Mom, get out of there. He's a psycho. Um, and then he cleans the bathroom that his mother got all soapy and water everywhere. I don't know what she was doing in there, but man, she got soap and water everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Taking a bath, baby.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Um, Joe goes to the bodega to collect payment from Angel, um, the middleman between Joe and the handler. He tells Angel that his son uh Moises? M-O-I-S-E-S? How do you say that? Moises? Yeah. Oh, Moises. You saw him the previous night returning home, indicating the boy has some idea what Joe does and where he lives. This pleases Joe, and he chooses to cut tie with him. So back home with his mother, he cleans out her fridge and she brings up uh That was great.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

He's like, this cream cheese is from 1978. Yeah, I use that. I still use it.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

It's like I'll just go buy you some mother. Uh Joe uh she brings up Janice, who is an old girlfriend of his. His mother wishes he would get married and have a life. Because there's one part where he's like, what do you do all day? It's like, uh, I don't want to tell you. So Joe T Joe has PTSD from being a veteran and rescuing kids from sex trafficking in the FBI. He again has a bag over his head and having flashbacks of a kid in danger. Contemplates jumping off some train tracks. We see a woman with a bruise on his face watching him. Uh not I doubt she was really there. That's what I mean. You were never really there. I think there's like or here. I think there's a lot of that there. Oh, hell yeah. Just from the title. This title has like so many different meetings uh while watching. So Joe later goes to meet with the handler, John McCleary, played by John Donman. He informs Joe of a new task in which he must recover the daughter of a state senator, Albert Votto, after she's run away. And don't worry, soon you'll want Votto to die. Jump off something or anything. And uh just like um a prominent rich person, he will mysteriously be unalived.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah, he'll uh trip and fall off a building.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Yeah. So uh Votto doesn't want authorities involved since he's working with Governor Williams and is willing to pay $50,000 for his daughter returns. Joe later meets with Votto personally to discuss what he knows about his daughter's whereabouts. He tells Joe her name is Nina and that she may be located at a specific address known for housing trafficked girls. Joe gives Votto an address for them to meet when the job is done, and Votto requests that Joe hurt the men responsible. Yeah, hell yeah. Yeah, those are like a really good scene. It's like, I hear that you're brutal. Can be. Can be. Make sure you are. This guy. And then it's just you're just like, ah, yeah, what a good father. He wants his daughter back. And then you're like, I hate him. I want him to die. I mean, it's nice he had second thoughts about it, but you know, too late, motherfucker. So after it's been just feel like I shouldn't go so peppy after this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Did you ever explain in the movie that he sold his because I didn't get that in in uh that he sold his daughter?

SPEAKER_00 29:21

It is not it's kind of that part where I said on the subway train where because uh just based off of context clues from the film. There's also um we're gonna get there soon, but during the crooked cops, while he's fighting one of them on the television screen, because like the audio in this movie is amazing on how it cuts into songs and like uh but also in the background, you'll be hearing something very important and also the loud cityscape, especially for someone with PTSD, how jarring it can be. But like while he's fighting that crooked cop, you can kind of hear things about Votto, like some of his like darker things in the past, like sexual misconduct and things like that. So no, so then you know he's kind of not a good person. And then whenever you kind of do the little uh scenes on the subway train, you can see that Votto, like just some of his dealings or some of the things they show, like him with Williams and the sadness on his face, where it's like, ah shit. Yeah, bad guy, not good.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

And like well, yeah, okay, we'll get to it.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

After spending a good part of the afternoon looking for supplies, such as duct tape, hammer, dental card, all three things you need to murder people to fix a drain? Yeah. So he then gets stopped by some girls visiting New York and is asked to take their picture. Okay, take your time.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

It's I can't. I'm trying to force it out.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Trinkle that nose. So while doing so, his PTSD kicks in and the girls' smiles start to become screams, and then one girl is frozen in fear and tears cut starting to well up into her eyes. Um, we have narration asking, What are you doing? And then we see him kicking a door with kids in it, but quickly. Then it cuts back to him sitting later at night on the sidewalk, overwhelmed. He's gotta stop to breathe. Yeah, that's rough, man. But yeah, it's just uh, how affecting is it to be like first of all, you're like, please don't let this guy take pictures of you. He's so weird. You guys don't understand what he's going through, he's about to do. But then like you see it, and it immediately just turns into like an ickiness feeling, and then like a real sadness feeling for him, and you know, just seeing like these young women with the faces that they put on is just very just very uh it makes me feel bad inside, you know. And that's what makes this movie so good. Yeah, man. Any movie that makes you feel this bad is usually a good movie. But like in not like a gr uh well not gross, but like uh not in a manipulative way. I feel like it's earning everything that it's doing.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Yeah. It's really an accomplishment when a movies make you f like feel strongly anything really.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Yeah. And it's uh more tastefully done than something that other movies potentially.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yeah, they they kind of gloss over all the violent parts.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

And could only show you the emotions.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Yeah, and it's like it's just giving you a more realistic look. Like they could have made Joe this like crazy hero that saves these women, which he's great one-liners. Yeah, and like he is he is like a hero when doing these things because it's around. But they don't like they're like, he's fucked up. You know? It's like you can be a hero and still, I guess, be fucked up really bad. Yeah. Not all heroes wear capes. Yeah, some does some of them just wear zip-up hoodies. Um, so yeah, then uh Joe then buys some drugs. Uh that's what he was getting. I was like, what is he doing? He buys drugs. Uh don't know, uh we'll later, I guess, feel like they're truth serum drugs. I don't I don't know what else to call them. And then punches a guy because he's late. Like, don't ever make me late. And I'm like, damn, dude. Like, take it easy on the brother, the guy. So he gets in his car where he takes-get it, dude. Yeah. Um, he gets in his car where he takes out various things like makeup remover and sodas. In a sauna, he goes and does some deep breathing to prepare himself for what he's gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

It was a weird scene because I I didn't know why he was he was doing all this like Tai Chi. Was he doing it in the sauna around other people?

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Well, he's just like had the like the towel over his head and doing like deep breathing. Yeah. Just to kind of clear his mind and prepare himself and try not to get PTSD at the moment. So maybe he was at one of those like gay clubs. No, it was just a sauna. Okay. Yeah. That'd be I I mean, if he was, uh, completely different element of the movie. Yeah. Um, but all this deep breathing doesn't seem to help because then he flashes back of him uh in Afghanistan giving a kid a candy bar. And then another kid who wants it shoots him, shoots him in the face and takes his candy bar and runs away. God damn. Yeah. It's like, that sucks to see. Then he splashes water on him and sings the alphabet song that he was singing earlier with his mother. It's kind of like, Oh, they're polishing silver. Yeah. It's just like, oh, that's so cute. Which I can see, you know, paired with the psycho thing and then him singing that with his mother, why people might get the idea. He might have a weird relationship with his mother, but I still refuse to believe that. Yeah, I don't think so. So cut to him, serious in a car in his car, driving to the location of Nina. He takes out he stakes out a place while waiting. We see flashbacks of him as an FBI agent where he finds a bunch of dead girls in a container.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Oh, were they dead?

SPEAKER_00 34:44

I thought they were he just kind of Well, they weren't moving and they were like laying on top of each other. It seemed like it was a bunch of kids just thrown into there.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Well, sometimes it does in this movie, they they'll show victims as not moving or like expressionless faces. So I wasn't really sure.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Because like going through that, they're all empty inside and you just want to die. And that very well could have been the situation. Because I did think that too, where I was like, maybe this is just kind of like that heightened reality or like a fantasy, almost kind of like how his flashbacks always seem almost like dreamlike. Yeah. Which I guess is I'd assume maybe that's how that feels. I don't know. Sure. Um, so he then uh attacks and interrogates a man going in and out of the place to know how many guards are in there. Um, he's like, How many guards in there? It's like, well, there's three. Uh, one on the first floor, two on the second floor, the girls are on the third floor. Um, he's like, What's the code? It's like, d I'll tell you don't don't kill me. Don't kill me. Like, punches him, puts duct tape on him after he tells him the code. It's like, yeah, you can kill him, that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

So he why why hold any kind of like loyalty to these people? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

I guess it's I guess at that point it's like, I probably shouldn't kill someone on the street, maybe. It's like inside the house, he probably is more comfortable. I thought he was just gonna take him and kill him somewhere, but I don't know. I don't know how he decides who I guess his main goal is just to get the person out and not kill every single person. Yeah. But he did kill the people guarding. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

And I love how you just is anywhere he walks, people are just when

Nina’s Rescue And The Trap

SPEAKER_01 36:20

he leaves, they're just dead. Yeah. Yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Um, so Joe enters the house or apartment, as seen on CCTV, and proceeds to kill the guards and a guy caught in the act with a young girl before he finds Zina, who's counting down. Yeah, the guy who like he throws out he's just like out there, he's got like a mask on and like he's naked, and then the girl just like blank stare, just walks out and goes sits on a chair at the end of the thing, and I'm like, save her too. I know, all right? But I guess his I don't know. He does he's just doing the job. Yeah, so it's just like uh he's not like the best person.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Yeah. Um but yeah. That's what kind of made me think this was a special situation. Like I thought he was just a hired gun, like a contract killer, and then he gets he'll but he'll just do anything. Like I think.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Well, I think because he's from the FBI, he's just uh a specialized thing. And I I think because of the trauma and uh the trauma of being in the FBI, he's like, if I'm gonna be on this planet, I might as well just be saving these girls that I've seen in terrible situations. Girls and guys, I'm assuming. Um So uh yeah, we see Nina's counting down. It's just like it's very quiet, and you just hear her counting, and it's very eerie. Um he leaves with her not before beating another man, another man in front of her, which she watches, even though he told her to close her eyes. And I'm assuming he beat a woman that comes in too, because a woman comes in, like, what's happening?

SPEAKER_01 37:50

He didn't beat, I think he just like tied her up. Oh, you think that's what happened? I couldn't I don't know, because he didn't it didn't show him like beating the shit out of her. Do it. He's like he kind of just like held her hands behind her back and put her down so she couldn't do anything.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

I guess in that situation, you don't know how much agency that girl has on whether she's in it or she's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

It's definitely a Glen stuck situation. That's what it seems like. She's probably the one that gets the girls, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Yeah. But it's like one of those situations where you don't know it's like maybe she's there against her will as well.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

The house mom.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

She's just mom to all the trafficked girls.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yeah, it's like, but you don't know, she might be a prisoner there too. So maybe just to take care of the girls. Um, yeah, so yeah, uh Nina just kind of watches um what he does to this man, which I think is a part of which ties into the ending when she takes vengeance in her own hands. Yeah. So they go to a garage and wait in the car, he offers her the soda, and then she hugs him and then starts to kiss him, and he stops her and like buckles her in. It's like, stay there. This is not what that is. You don't have to do this. That's so fucking sad. Yeah, I know. It's like, oh god, icky. I feel icky. This movie makes me feel icky. But then it makes me pump my fist in the air when he camers somebody. It's get great contrast. That's awesome. Um, so they get to the hotel where he anticipated her father's arrival, only to see on TV that Votto has apparently jumped to his death.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

It's a really fun way to find out your parents dead. Yeah, he's like, Don't listen to this, honey. Well, this is what I was gonna I was gonna say something about this scene before, because whenever he says I'm taking you back to your dad, there's nothing. There's nothing there. There's no like anticipation on her face or like Yeah, she just seems dead inside. She does seem dead inside. Understandable, but also there's no relief of being reunited, the possibility of being reunited, or even when she finds out he's dead, she's like, Yeah, and that was that was kind of a part like thinking about after watching the whole film.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

I was like, does she know that her dad did this? Um I think so. It yeah, or is it just like she's just like she's broken forever type of situations? And yeah, that's probably part of it. Probably both. Probably both, right? Um, so there's a knock at the door. Joe goes to open Joe's like immediately, like he hears that the guy's died, and then there's a knock at the door, and he's immediately like, fuck. Yeah, he knows what's up. He opens the door and a cop shoots this guy in the back of the head, blood splatters all over Joe's face, and he immediately is like, What? Yeah, and then that was cool.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Um the splatter on his face was so good.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Yeah, and they immediately pick up Nina and take her out, and she yells for Joe. And it's just like kind of one of the first times she really says something. Yeah. Like, or shows like an emotion. Joe, I'm being taken again. It's like, because there she did talk uh beforehand, like in the garage, like she had to pee. And like he's like, but she like said everything in like a I'm dead inside type way. And then when she's getting taken away again, this is like the first time you see her have an emotion of like, Joe, no. Um very effective. Um, so yeah, and they like they have Joe sit on the uh bed, and he's like, I don't know what's going on. And then wham! Bam! They fight, um, guns go off, and uh a little later he says that like they shot me in my face, but you never see you never see anything. So like maybe he was talking about whenever he shot the guy got shot at the door, maybe like some impact of the bullet like bounced off his face or something because he did pull a tooth out. Yeah. Later.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

But there wasn't a like a hole or anything. Yeah, so maybe it's like and he poured this antiseptic onto his face.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Yeah, maybe it was just like Could have been a graze. Then you know he did have a beard bounced off his tooth. And like I'm assuming it's like when the bullet goes through the guy's head and you know, slowed down enough that it didn't like penetrate through his full face, or it's like ricocheted whenever the gun's just wildly shooting. I don't know. Um, so and Joe fights the cop and kills him, but he still gets shot in the face, apparently. And while the fight, we hear the TV saying that Votto had sexual misconduct and may have been a crooked, but he says that Senator Williams was running a smear campaign against him. Um very effective scene, great shot of seeing the fight from the mirror. It's like you never really fully get to grasp other than the gunshot to the face, like you don't really grasp the violence in the film because it's usually not seen.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Or it's at a weird angle.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Yeah, to where you're kind of almost like disembodied from the violence a little bit. Um, so burps, burps, burps. So Joe leaves the hotel to find a place to pull out a broken tooth. Ouch! That's pulling out teeth and fingernails, there's something about it where it's like I was just like while watching it, I was just like, eh. Just like moving my jaws from side to side, like, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow. Um, and then like with whenever they pull out like fingernails or something, I'm always like just like wiggling my fingers like ow, ow. Oh god. Um

Home Invasion And The Truth Pill

SPEAKER_00 43:05

so Joe attempts to contact McLeary for help. He goes to his house, gets his gun, pets his cat, and then finds blood um in the house. And then just love that it cuts to him just like petting the cat. Um and then he finds him dead at his office with his hands all cut up. Oh man. And I'm assuming that was like a torture method to get the information where Joe lives, who's some of the middleman. Fun. We see Angel and his son being murdered, uh, gun to head. Joe flashbacks of his uh has flashbacks of his abusive father telling him to stand up straight. Jesus Christ and abusing his mother. Joe returns home to find that his mother has been murdered as well in her bed, got bloody glasses with a bullet hole in them.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Yeah, I know the have you ever heard that the the mafia uh likes to shoot people through the left eye.

unknown 44:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Something I heard as a child. It was like it was I think it was in a movie. It was like the guy was taking advice on how to shoot maybe it could have been the it wasn't the godfather. It was like um Mafia guy giving him advice on how to kill someone. It was like shoot him through the left eye.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Because that is like extra dead. Extra dead. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

It's interesting. I would look it up, but I don't want that in my search history. No, I'll have to like check that out after this to see what that's all about.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Headshot ones don't always kill. It's more effective to shoot them in the heart. But I think if you're gonna do a headshot left eye. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

Huh.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

I don't know. If you know. Send us some fan mail.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Are you in the mafia? Please let us know. Uh so he discovers that the killers are still in the house waiting for him. Joe pauses and we see more flashbacks to when he was a kid. We see that Joe would put a bag over his head when his dad was violent to his mom. His dad seemed to use a hammer on her. We see a small shot of his mom walking with cut marks on her legs, kind of like he disappears from the scene, and then like we just see like his mother who walks, and it seems like there's cut marks on her legs. So I'm assuming that she was probably like depressed. Fuck, dude. Um, yeah, not fun. Movie, movie, not fun. Um, so Joe manages to get the upper hand and shoot both of them. One of them is alive but moments away from death. Joe questions him as to which of them killed his mom. He then gives him a pill. He asks if either of them killed Voto. The hitman says Voto wanted out, as he apparently conspired with Governor Williams, who the hitman says was most fond of Nina. He asks if his mother was afraid and the hitman says she was asleep. Um, yeah, and there's like a song playing at this point. It's like Undressed by Kings. Yeah. There's a line from it, and it seems like a kind of a dark song. And I don't know if it's supposed to be a dark song or if it just because of the context of the scene.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

It kind of reminded me of that first scene with the taxi driver when he because the song's playing, but the guy's mouth is moving. Like what is he saying? It does it, it didn't really so show what he's saying.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Yeah. Well, it's like I I was lucky enough to like be able to have the subtitles on while watching.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

I was watching it with subtitles, but all I was only seeing subtitles from the song. Oh, gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Um so well, in in this scene, he's either telling them about Vado or singing the song as well as it's like.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

Yeah, or saying like a prayer. Yeah. Because he knows he's gonna die.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Yeah, right. Um, so they sing together and then the hitman dies while holding Joe's hand. Um, so Joe dresses in his Sunday's best.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

He's like, You're my best friend.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Yeah, it's like this is the only friend I can have is you, apparently. And takes his mother's body to the lake where he buries her. He also attempts to drown himself by filling uh his pockets with stones. As he sinks deeper into the lake, he has a vision of Nina that snaps him out of his moment so that he can may swim back to the surface and continues to help.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

That was a cool ass scene.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Yeah, because it's like it's it's almost like he's in a tank, not like an actual lake. It's very dark around him except for a light shining directly on him. And at first you see him, the one floating down, and then it like changes to Nina uh falling, uh sinking down, and then he's kind of counting backwards like Nina was. Uh-oh. And then it turns into her counting down, and then he's like, I gotta do this, I gotta finish the job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

That's what this scene reminded me a lot of the movie Under the Skin because they use that this whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

Yeah, where she's like walking in water and it's like dark.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

Being submerged in a black void of water, yeah. And then crazy shit happens.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

It's like it's like I'm assuming it's kind of a representation of depression, I would assume. Like for this, like you have that sinking feeling that you can't get out and you're just in like this blackness that like engulfs your whole body and mind. I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

And then the alien sucks up your body, yeah, and just leaves your skin husk floating.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

So first time you ever see Scarlet Johansson nude. Oh, yeah. Giggity. Cool. Glad I brought up Quagmire in this movie. That's fun. So, Joe on a train has visions of Nina. In his head, Joe puts the pieces together. Votto and Williams were both involved

The Lake Scene And Resolve

SPEAKER_00 48:35

in a child sex trafficking scheme in which Votto sold Nina to Williams to get Williams good graces. However, the guilt doing so drove Votto to suicide. Joe then follows Williams around the city until he figures out where he's headed. Joe then follows Williams to his home. We see Williams blowing out candles and in and there's like pictures and picture frames of young girls. He puts some decorations in a dollhouse. This is intercut with Joe walking outside to the house. Just leaving a trail of bodies. It like keeps cutting back and forth, but we're never seeing him do the violence. We're only seeing the aftermath of the violence. Um and he doesn't have a spot of blood on it. Yes, so wild. Um, and then as he's continuing through the house, he proceeds to the room that Williams held Nina, only to find him with his throat slit. Joe in disbelief sits on the floor and begins to cry and take off his shirt while having PTSD of his father. It's like kind of reminds me of Jarhead. Do you ever watch Jarhead? I don't remember much about Jarhead. Um, it's like, you know, the whole spoilers for Jarhead, like the whole movie, you know, it's a it's kind of similar to um Full Metal Jacket, right? Where it's like they made these killing machines, these humans and killing machines, and then kind of gets to the end where Jake Gyllenhaal, he's a sniper and he's like, he's got a shot on this guy, and he's like really ready to do it. And then they uh tell him it's like, no, don't take the shot. And then it's just like, this is what you've built for me to do, right? And so it's kind of like this where he's like, he was so ready just to get to avenge and get this revenge on this man. Oh, I see what you're saying. And then he's just like, he doesn't get to have it, and then it's like all this just bad and sad feelings like hit him. So he sits on the bed and falls to the floor and it's like, I gotta take my shirt off for some reason. Because it feels like he's like, Because that's what he did as a kid.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

He had a shirt on.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

I thought maybe it was that's it's really interesting that that I never thought about that. But I thought it was because maybe he did the same kind of thing to his dad.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Oh, like cut his oh yeah, I didn't think about it.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

But it never tells you, but like maybe he took maybe he was the one who had to take it into his hands. Yeah, maybe that was it.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

And that was what the girl had to do.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

That's actually a good interpretation of it as well. Because we don't know how his father died. So it could have been a situation with that hammer in his left eye. Um yeah, so then Joe goes downstairs, we hear like noises and thudding. It turns out that's just the soundtrack. Um assuming that's supposed to be the feeling of people.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

I thought she was gonna walk into somebody getting like just like making an Iron Man super. Like banging her head against the glass or something. I don't like, I don't fucking know. It was so cool.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Yeah. And then while investigating, he sees a vision of his mom, his younger self, and then he sees Nina eating food with her hands covered in blood and a straight razor next to her plate. Yum. He walks to her and she says, It's okay, Joe. And it's just like, because he like puts a hand on her shoulder and it's like, it's okay, Joe.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

And it's like, pass me some of them carrots.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Yeah. It's like I actually uh kind of been thinking about getting tired rid of this beard if you want to straight razor in my beard.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

He did a pretty good job upstairs.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Yeah. And then like, we're gonna see that later. They kind of just like are gonna just go off together. But I was just like, man, is there a sequel to the book where it's her and him, him with a ball pen hammer, her with a straight razor, and they're just like a vigilante.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

I know, I was the same thought. Like he teaches her the ways of being a contract killer.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

It's like it would not vibe with this movie, but hell yeah, I'd watch that movie. Just a whole nother revenge movie. Yeah. Oh man. It'd be like it'd almost be kind of like uh kick-ass with uh hit girl and uh whatever Nick Cage's character is called in that. I can't remember. We should do kick-assing. That maybe kids ass. So Joe then takes Nina to a diner for a meal. Nina asks, Where do they go? And he says, Wherever she wants. Um, she goes to the bathroom shortly after he shoots himself in the head and nobody seems to care. There's like blood everywhere, it's all over people back of people's head. The um the waitress comes and lays down the check and the blood just like engulfing it. Um Nina returns and we see it was a fantasy. Joe is slumped over, tired and stressed. She tells him they should go because it's it's a beautiful great day. And he says, Yeah, it is a beautiful day. And then we end with the booth now empty. And we just kind of hear stuff. And it's just like that's the end. It's like he saved the day. But you're it's like one of those shots um where it's just like after it's done, you're just like shit. Like happy ending, I guess. She's got no family and just is gonna hang out with this BTSD guy who's like just really depressed, and but there is like also this kind of hope that maybe she can bring like some hope to his life. Yeah, they can kind of or they become a crime fighting duo. You never know.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

Yeah, they just have to help each other pick up the pieces and start over. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

So that is

Ending Breakdown And Meaning

SPEAKER_00 53:45

you were never really here. Um, Jason, you gotta what do you think the point of the movie is? God, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 53:53

I don't know, man. I I guess it's fuck.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

You want to hear what I got, I guess? So um I think the movie is a visual representation of what it's like to be depressed and have PTSD. The title itself is like uh is just a show associated from his own body, like he was never really there. Yeah. Um, uses trauma and past violence to avenge young traffic girls, and then in the end, it's him and Aunt Nina, a character that now gives him hope and someone that can tell him, even though he's depressed, that it's a beautiful day. And even if they both may be as empty inside as the booth that the film ends on, they can still maybe make it through the world. Um I guess it's just more of an explanation of what the movie is, but I think it's just like uh, you know, use your trauma for something good. Yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

That was a perfect job for him.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

Yeah, it's like uh all I know is violence, so uh might as well save it on a farm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

Just go live on a farm.

SPEAKER_00 54:49

Probably just go to another country at this point. Uh especially since he didn't wear gloves anywhere and he put his hands everywhere on a bunch of crime scenes. So it's probably they're probably just gonna have to go to Mexico or some other country.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

Yeah, that would be the best thing.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

And I'm sure Williams has it set up to where he is. Well, I don't know, because then at that point, you know, there's just gonna be a bunch of evidence of pedophilia all in that governor's house. So, you know.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Um they have to leave the country because the cops are they're coming at. They're all crooked, so I mean, but they're gonna they're gonna go looking for her. They're gonna go looking for him.

SPEAKER_00 55:22

And she can't be found because you never know what's gonna happen to her at that point. But yeah, I just think it's a very effective movie of uh just showing you what depression and BTSD looks like.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

Yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

I don't have either of those, but if I did, it might look like this. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Might be ultraviolet.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

It made me

The Good Bad Ugly Fine

SPEAKER_00 55:40

feel those things. So cool. We're gonna hit up our next category: the good, the bad, the ugly, the fine. It's where we discuss the good of the film, something we like, the bad, something we didn't like, the ugly, something that didn't age well, the fine, something that did age well. For the good, I put um the direction, editing, sound design, and of course walking phoenix. The effectiveness of not always seeing the violence instead seeing the aftermath. Also the way the violent was shot, seeing it almost the way that Joe did, disconnected from his own body. Very effective. Yeah. Oh. It's like as much as you wanted to see the violence on these people, it's just like I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 56:12

Kind of glad I didn't. It's like you're glad you didn't.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

And you're glad that it was happening to these people, but you know, I don't know. It's just it made me feel conflicted, which uh is fun to feel when watching a movie because you know that it's working. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

I I think my good was just walking this might uh be my favorite walking phoenix. Hell yeah, boy. Yeah, uh just Joe's character was so d fucking deep and crazy and loved it.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

And not very vocal. Yeah, right. He didn't really have to say. It's like when an actor can portray so much just by looks and action, that's how you know someone's a good actor. Yeah. Um, so the bad, um man, I don't know. I just think it was a solid film and I enjoy the way it was made, so I don't really have anything. Um for the ugly, I put uh, you know, a lot of little truths in this film that, you know, we weren't privy to. You know, there's conspiracy theories about it, you know, like Pizzagate and things like that. And it's just like one of those things where you hear and it's just like, yikes, there seems to be a lot of like things that maybe it's true, and then it's just like, ah, no, it's not, and then it's like, well, half of it was.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

We'll never know, we'll never be in that world that all these super rich people are in.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Yeah. Well, we got the files, and turns out a lot of the people that we thought were involved with Pizzagate were uh some of the people that are involved in the Epstein files. So it's like yikes uh, yikes uh.

SPEAKER_01 57:49

Um We need more Joes in this world. Yeah, help us out, Joe's pretty much just trafficking.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Any kind of trafficking is all bad. Yeah. Um, what do you got? You got anything of the ugly? Didn't age well? No. It's like the move, none of it from the movie didn't age well. It's just life didn't age well. Reality doesn't age well, I guess. Yikes. Yo. Um, for the fine, I put walking phoenix, man. I mean, he just always delivers. Um it's probably my favorite actor. I love revenge.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

He's a weird old guy, but one of my favorite actors. He's great. And I love revenge. Revenge movies are fucking sick.

SPEAKER_00 58:29

Just it's like the best outlet to feel to give you that satisfaction of revenge without actually doing it is through films. Yeah. Unless you're a crazy person, and then you take it too far and not replicate films.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

I think that's why I love The Punisher so much. Even the it's even like the superhero movie, you know, the I guess.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

You got the sh you got the show The Punisher, and then you got the movie The Punisher.

SPEAKER_01 58:55

The movie was the one. I haven't really seen the show.

SPEAKER_00 58:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:58

But the movie, oh god, I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 59:00

I loved how ultra game was. It's also got Kevin Ash in it. Yeah. That movie, uh, I haven't watched it in a long time. I always remember liking it as a kid, and then I would rewatch it like as uh in my twenties. I still enjoyed it alright. Um, there was a there's a second movie called Um Punisher Warzone that's just batshit crazy and off the wall. I actually kind of liked it more. I would see it. It was very comic booky, which was fun. Oh, yeah. Um, especially at the time. Probably wouldn't care for either one of them now, just because I'm just kind of tired of you know, that land. Even though I was thinking we should do a month of just superhero movies, like my favorite. Oh, yeah. Um that'd be a good one for kick-ass. Yeah. Kick ass. Probably do like kick-ass, the first Sam Raimi Spider-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, and then one, a DC movie.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

I just the one with the the happy face. Watchmen? Watchmen. Yeah. I like that one pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

I am not the biggest fan of that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

Alright. But I love the book. You know like hanging dog? I love the book.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

It's just like um it's just like the graphic novel is it just does not have it has all the cool stuff from the graphic novel, but it doesn't have the context from the graphic novel, which is what made that graphic novel so good. That's cool. Um, but I would love to talk about it um so I could say what this movie's missing. Um but if you do like Watch Me, I understand, it is a rad ass, beautiful looking movie. It just like makes me feel nothing. Yeah, which is um the problem with some superhero movies. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

It's like the ones that I really love make me feel a lot. What I really liked about it was that it was so different from Marvel.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:46

Yeah, especially at the time. Yeah, because that was when Snyder was doing his Snyder shit. And before he just like just made everything kind of boring in his movies. Um we're gonna hit up our next category. Sorry if you're a Snyder fan. I'm sorry. I know there's a lot of people um his first movie that I saw of his, Dawn of the Dead, the remake, is a wonderful zombie movie, and they can never take that from him. Um and Batman versus Superman, that's pretty alright. Um till the ending.

Double Feature Picks And Next Film

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

So um we're gonna hit up our next category double feature. It's where we recommend a movie that goes alongside this movie. I picked a movie that is very similar, Drive. It's a hero that doesn't talk. He's in a CD underground world, and uh it looks good. Sound tri the sound is designed great, and both like similar to Walking Phoenix. Ryan Gosling's a great actor when he's not talking, and even when he's talking, he's also good. But uh, I don't know. One of my favorite movies, and this movie reminds me of that. So this is a great movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

Yeah, that that was a really good movie. Um I guess I really got thoughts of watching like Sin City again. Yeah. Along with Under the Skin, a little bit kind of a one of those two would be a pretty good watch on the side.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:06

Very like three very stylized movies. Um Sin City's almost too stylized. But that was like his trying to be a lot like the graphic novel. Um that's uh Robert Rodriguez who did um like from Dust Till Dawn and movies like spy kids and all those things.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

Yeah, like Bruce Willis's character is kind of like Joe, a little bit taking out, you know, all these the senator's son who's a pedophile.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

That movie has Daniel Radcliffe in it, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:33

Yeah, yeah, I thought so. Times him up in a tree, cuts off his arms and legs, yeah, and lets the wolves eat him or smiles. I should rewatch that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

Give me some more. I've not watched it, never saw the sequel either. I didn't either. I watched the Sin City when I was a child, so it's in it needs a rewatch.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

Yeah, I think it's worth one at least.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:52

Jason, that's that's we just concluded the the episode. We're done. We can um, and because you know, we already had this uh next movie planned because of Donnie Darko, and uh it's honestly gonna be a breath of fresh air after Donnie Darko and this, right? We're just gonna have a good hootin' of a time with Army of Darkness, baby. A movie that is very funny. And if you thought Evil Dead 2 was over the top, well, just wait for Army of Darkness. And also, the fucking effects of all the skeletons are so good, and honestly, the final battle fucking rips, dude. It's so good and so goofy. Oh, it's just like it did not make enough m money, and it sucks. It sucks because the the craft put into this movie is amazing. Um, so yeah, join us for Army of Darkness. It will conclude our Evil Dead trilogy of Sam Raimi. Oh, but don't worry, there's another Evil Dead we'll definitely do.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:56

Yay!

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

Potentially a third one, because I just want to talk about Evil Dead Rise's opening at some point. Fuck yeah, man. Because it might be one of my favorite things in all of Evil Dead, the opening of Evil Dead Rise. Uh it's just there's this part where this girl is just like floats out of the lake, and then Evil Dead Rise appears, and it's like this is way better than the rest of the movie.

Wrap-Up Reviews And Goodbye

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

Um, so yeah, join us for Army of Darkness. Yeah. All right. Swallow souls. Yeah. Cool. So join us next week for that. Let's uh uh uh clean up and act like we were never really here. So leave us fan mail, link in the description, email at the bottom. We recommend mailbag at gmail.com. Uh follow us, like us, love us. Live and laugh at the same time. Uh and don't let the the bastards get you down with all the negativity in the world. We're here to bring you up with some joy. Um, I don't know what I'm doing. So uh, but yeah, leave us some reviews, please. Some nice things would be nice to hear. And yeah, if you say stuff to us, reviews or anything, we'll uh we'll shout you out on the podcast, which isn't that fun. Um, thank you. Thank you, Joey Prosser, for our intro and outro music. This has been the We Recommend Podcast. Don't know why that accent came out me mouth. Keep it up, let's go. I am Jesse. Um, it's a beautiful day, Jason. Let's get out of here.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

Bye.