12 Monkeys

The scariest part of 12 Monkeys is not the virus. It is the feeling that everything has already happened and you are just sprinting toward it anyway.

We recommend Terry Gilliam’s 1995 sci-fi thriller and then pull it apart scene by scene, starting with our shock at how “normal” 1996 Philadelphia looks like a pre-apocalypse. From there, we get into the performances that make the whole time travel puzzle work: Bruce Willis playing James Cole like a man whose brain is getting sandblasted by the timeline, Madeleine Stowe turning Dr. Catherine Railly from confident psychiatrist to reluctant believer, and Brad Pitt delivering an iconic, twitchy Jeffrey Goines who is hilarious, unsettling, and weirdly on-point about consumerism.

We would love to hear from you! Send us an email and maybe it will be read on the podcast! werecommendmailbag@gmail.com

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2199769

Music produced by Joey Prosser. X @mrjoeyprosser

Transcript

Welcome And Movie Pick

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hello and welcome to the We Recommend Podcast, a movie podcast where every week we recommend a movie for you to watch, and then come back here and listen to us discuss. I'm Jesse. I'm Jason. I am insane, and you are my insanity. Because this week we recommend 12 monkeys. Jason, I'm so damn glad you wanted to do this movie for the podcast. This movie rips, dude. It's so good. It's so different than what I thought it was gonna be. I only saw like little spots.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

I didn't remember shit.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Yeah. The whole time I thought it was they were in a post-apocalyptic present and then they were going to the future. Or no. No, I I thought, yeah. I thought they were so just from the vagueness of watching it and seeing clips, I thought he was traveling to a post-apocalyptic area. Turns out that's just 1996 in Philadelphia, I guess. It's just what it looks like right now. They film Philadelphia and make it look like the worst city in the world. It's constantly like you're constantly getting attacked. Trash everywhere. I was like, what is this 1970s New York film or something? I was like, man, this place is run down in this movie. And then it's like, oh wait, no, that's the president. I was like, what? It was so uh it was very surprising when I watched it. I was like, oh, okay, I did not see that coming.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah, I heard a TikToker named Pearl Mania, and he was saying that they have trash tornadoes in Philadelphia.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Really?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

I think that is a phenomenon that is just for them.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

For what I know about Philadelphia, it's now this movie, all of M. Night Shyamalan's movies. Really? It's always sunny in Philadelphia and the Eagles go birds. That's all I know. So yeah, I guess uh outside of M. Not Shyamalan, it's all pretty trashy. Got the Eagles fans, just

Surprise Take On Philadelphia

SPEAKER_00 2:10

fucking got the Eagles fans. Just kidding. I've rooted for you guys in every Super Bowl you've been in.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

You know, maybe things have changed since 1996. Yeah, it has been 30 years.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Well, except in well, I will say the it's always sunny. They're trashy people, so you only see the trashy side in that show. Um but yeah, I was just I this movie goes. It's so good. The acting from the three leads, or well, I guess Bruce and uh the girl, which I'm totally blinking on the name of her, um, which I've never really noticed or anything, Madeline Sni Stowe. She rules in this. Yes, I thought she was crazy. When she goes from, all right, he's crazy, and then she believes, and then they get the they leave the voicemail and she's like, We're not crazy! We're not crazy, or we are crazy, we are crazy. I was like, dude, she's crushing this, but and then Willis and Pitt, God dang, dude, like they were they're so good in this.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

I know it's it was the way that uh Brad Pitt portrayed uh what do you think? What's going on with him? You think he's twitchy. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

It seems like he my backstory is that when he was a kid, this is not true probably at all, is that his dad like experimented on him or something. Oh or got something into his dad's stuff and just kind of went twitchy. Yeah, I could see that happening. But man, like he like I don't know. He's already kind of uh I feel like when in movies he always eats, and I feel like maybe that's because he's a twitchy guy when he's acting. I don't know. So instead he just shoves his food with his mouth with food.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Oh, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

So in this, he's got nothing to eat, so he's just crazy.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Um but yeah, he's great. And it's it seems like a prelude to uh fight club, like his character in Fight Club.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yeah. A little bit. Now I this movie actually made me want to do Fight Club soon.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

So you know is that your double feature?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

No, but I definitely want to do Fight Club now.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Yeah, I want I kind of wanted my oldest to see it. Fight Club? Yeah, yeah. I mean, how many times do we get to look at Bruce Willis's butt? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

I couldn't get it. Um, and like speaking of Bruce Willis and this, it's kind of great. He's like one of the most charming actors ever. Not charming at all in this movie. He really made me just be like, oh man, you're hard to believe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Yeah. It's just like it's like Manhattan Leonard.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yeah, just like, man, usually you're kind of more suave, and that's kind of what you're known for, but he gets close.

The Three Lead Performances

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Yeah. And then whenever you do, it's just like, oh man, now he's kind of run down and beat down. So I don't know. So um, what is it about 12 monkeys that like draws you in or that makes you like it?

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Uh it's like arc raiders.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Yeah, it is. I put that in my notes somewhere. It's like at one point point, it's like towards the beginning. I put, oh man, Ark Raiders much.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Although I think they had some really shitty like costume design choices that they've made here. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 5:27

I think like well, this is very it's very Terry Gillum who he does he did a movie before called Brazil, and it's very is esoteric, futuristic, kind of weird. Like the d everybody's outfits are like strange, and the way people act are always strange in a Terry Gillum movie.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

I and the only I guess the only problem I really had was the the suit he had to wear. It looked like a fucking Christmas tree out there. Wait, which suit? The the Bruce Willis wears the big gets in the big condom and goes up Yeah, I did put that.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

I was like, huh, it looks like sperm. But that's so that's like weird futuristic stuff that like in the 90s and 80s and 70s, people are like, this is how people are gonna dress. This is how aliens look too. They're all weirdly they have no figure in our stuff. We've just come a long way with movies, you know. Yeah, because I mean I guess it's because it's post-apocalyptic uh future.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

So it's usually trash they find in Philadelphia, drab and like very that makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

LaTeX, they just found all the latex they could.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

They harvest the trash to make everything that they have.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

I mean, I think that's why they essentially are going up.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

It's like we gotta get stuff and spiders. Tweedy trash and spiders. You know what this sounds like? You remember that cartoon, all real monsters? Yeah, worked it. That's what the software got the guy with the hands, yeah. The eyeballs. Yeah. Oblina uh was the stick lady. I can't remember the other ones.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

One of the best parts about staying home from sick was to watch all those toenails of money. Yeah. Well, I think with uh 12 monkeys, obviously I'm a big um time travel guy. Yeah, love time travel movies. We've done so many on this podcast. This will make the cool video game.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

I mean, they would really like time splitters, I think, was one kind of like this. It was kind of sweet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

And then just, I don't know, it's always the fast it immediately well. Obviously, I kind of enjoy all the post-apocalyptic stuff. Uh like future when he goes up and there's this like lions and bears and stuff. It's like, what the fuck is going on here?

SPEAKER_01 7:40

You think they they know that there's bears up there, right? Yeah. But they send them up in a Christmas tree. Yeah. And don't give him a gun.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Very much eatable. I don't know if they even have any at this point. They have to have something. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

They set him up with a flashlight in a suitcase. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Even like with all the tech, like the giant ball that whenever he gets in his chair and he like is lifted up, and that giant ball comes to crazy. And it's got like all the eyes of everyone. And there's one where it's a TV and you got the doctor, and then you got like a glass in front of it to like so he could see closer. I'm like, can you see through the TV?

SPEAKER_01 8:15

And then like the face is all stretched out.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yeah, it's like everything, every choice in this movie is so fascinating. And then as soon as they send them back to the wrong time, it immediately becomes like, oh shit, it's even better.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

That was yeah, that was sweet.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

And this is uh, it's based on a French film, La Jette. Ooh. Um, it was made in 1962. Um, all it is though, it's just it's pictures and then like a lot of like whispering over it. And it's very weird, and it's something that like if you go to film school, you have to watch. Yeah. Um, and it's just kind of interesting. I was like, oh man, I can't believe I never saw 12 monkeys, even though I knew that the little short, because I think the movie's like 28 minutes. Um, as a college kid, I did not appreciate it because I was like, snooze fest, Mr. Professor. But um I watched a little bit of it yesterday after watching this, and I was like, oh man, no. Later today fucking rips. Um, so Pitt, Bruce, and Madeline, they obviously crush. Um, which performance out of those three did you like best?

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Well, uh you know, I thought it was really cool. I'm not really sure. Um, I thought she did really well. I was having my issues with Bruce and Brad. But yeah, I mean none of them are like good people except for Stowe, but I feel like they all uh I mean as far as like portraying like I don't know, maybe Madeline. Yeah, she really is really good in this. Well one thing I thought was really interesting was like she has this deja vu going on kind of with Bruce's character.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, because it's like why do I know you?

SPEAKER_01 9:54

And I learned the other day playing disco Elysium, or uh that there's an opposite to that called Jame. Right. Nothing that you normal nothing that you see every day

Gilliam Style And Future Weirdness

SPEAKER_01 10:05

seems normal to you. Huh. So it's the opposite, you know. Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

And that I feel like that's why that's Bruce's character. Just like you wake up confused every day. Yeah. Where am I? I think that's uh I think they have a brain tumor if that's the situation.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Well, that's what I'm saying. It's like one of those fleeting moments, like deja vu, usually.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Man, that's wild. It's like you're sitting there watching TV, and the next thing you know, I don't know what any of this is. And then like five minutes later, like, what is happening? Who am I? Where am I? And then it's like five minutes later, oh, that's who I am and where I am. Whoa, I'm gonna look more stuff up about that.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

I think it's pronounced Jean Mayvu. It's in French.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah. I actually think I think I think Bruce Willis is probably my favorite in terms of acting in this. I just think he really does a great job.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Especially when he kind of flipped. Yeah. It was so like two different characters.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

When he whenever like he comes back towards the end and he's all sad and it's like, I'm crazy. Yeah. Just like send me in. I'm like, it's wild because that's when both um Stowe and uh Willis both really it kind of kicks into gear for me. I'm like, this is so much fun. And they're crushing it. Um, so do you have a favorite time travel movie? And is it kind of like your favorite subgenre of sci-fi films? Because I think it is mine. I think time travel in sci-fi is probably my favorite. Yeah, I think that really kicks ass. Um I don't know about a favorite. I don't know what my favorite time travel movie is.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

I used to love Back to the Futures, but as far as more this type.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

I mean, Looper is so good. Looper was Looper. And yeah, I think that might be it. And it's funny that Bruce Willis is also in it. I think I just love Bruce. I love Bruce Willis. Um and then well, we also did Source Code, which that was one I liked a lot. Yeah, that was that one was great. And then, you know, there's obviously Back to the Future. The Back to the Future is a movie that I like, but it was never like a pinnacle movie for me.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Like I never really child it was for me.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

I never really watched it as a kid, so I was older when I watched it, and I was just I don't know. Every time I watch it, it's hilarious and great, but like it's just never like one of those movies where like I gotta watch back to the future, you know? Doc's one of my favorite characters ever invent, ever made. He's fantastic. Oh, and then uh, uh, uh the daddy's so funny. It's the best. Um, why do mentally ill people always and activists, why are they always bad? Why are they they either you know kind of seem crazy or they're bad in movies? But I'm always like, man, they got all the right ideas. It's like because like, you know, like um Brad Pitt's character, he's constantly saying thing stuff about consumerism and like uh wanting to help animals. And I'm like, this guy in this uh in this uh um uh uh place is crushing it. And everything he's saying, I'm like, yeah, I agree with all this. And then I'm like, wait, I shouldn't be saying it's like this is the guy that needs meds every five minutes. He didn't be locked up, and then like, you know, every time it's always like um green peace activists and stuff like that in movies, it's always like they go way too far and things like that. And it's like why is that why are they always the bad guys in movies like this?

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Well, that's so weird they're kind of extreme, like setting bear traps for people out the street.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah, sounds great. That's kind of I know, but they always make them go that extra mile in movies like this, and it's it, it's like it's weird because I remember when it was like a year or two ago, it was like a conservative person that was just like, I don't think it's I think it's pretty obvious why most of the time, whenever you have more liberal ideas in movies, they're always the bad guys. I'm like, why are they always the bad guys? It's so weird. Um but yeah, like you know, Brad Pitt's character the whole time in this movie is you know, he's supposed to be kind of mentally ill. And I'm like, I like he's saying a lot of good like ideas here about consumerism and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

I'm gonna change my opinion on best performances gonna be good, Brad Pitt. Yeah, I think I had more fun watching Brad Pitt,

Time Travel Favorites And Comparisons

SPEAKER_01 14:25

just that Madeline made me feel less uncomfortable. What do you mean? Brad Pitt's character. It was really funny to watch, Jeffrey. Yeah, but like something about it made me feel really weird.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Yeah, well it's because the whole time you're watching him, you're like, this guy might be the best.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Like, why are they letting him run around and like tap people on the head and like chase people with brooms?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

He gets to do whatever he wants. I guess he's I guess he's the most uh at this point the most lucid or the most uh stable, but he's also unstable.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Highly unstable.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah. Um so we'll hop into some of the facts here. So Terry Gillum was afraid that Brad Pitt wouldn't be able to pull off the nervous rapid speech. He sent him to a speech coach, but in the end, he just took away Pitt's cigarettes, and Pitt played the part exactly as Gillam wanted. So that's what he is.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Oh, that's why he's always easy.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Got no nicotine. You know. That that is like how it kind of feels like whenever, you know, like the first day or two without nicotine. And I'm already a fidgety person, which makes vaping even worse because I'm constantly just like Yep, pacifier. Yeah. And that's why I like play with my wedding ring a lot. Um but yeah, whenever like I'm trying to stop. Oh, have you seen these media rings you can get? Yeah, where you can spin it. Yeah, yeah, I know. Sounds cool.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Once it's cool if it had a buzzer like you know, like a clown.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Yeah. I need one that is like every time I touch it, it like shocks me. So I'll stop fiddling and dropping it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Um so or that so Natalie could control it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Honey, can you take out the trash? Uh yeah, just one minute. Okay, I'll get to it.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Just wrapped it around your false account.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Ooh, sounds fun. Oh god. So Bruce Willis. Bruce Willis took a lower salary than his star status would normally entitle, partly because of the budget restrictions, but mostly because he wanted to work with Terry Gillum. Actually, Bruce did the movie for free. It was only after the movie was released that he was paid.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

That's fucking cool.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yeah, I love when I hear that actors do that. It's like, if you that's um, it used to be a bigger deal back in the day when it's like, oh, there's a really good director and he like an um a tour. It's like, I gotta work with him. And now it's just like, how much is Jeff Bezos gonna pay me for this uh CGI slop? Oh, okay, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

He probably made a mint from Die Hard. Yeah. And so he's like, he can handle it.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Or everything after Die Hard. He probably made like five million each movie he did at that point. Um so although never addressed directly in the film, the script and some promotional material reveal that the future scenes take place in the year 2035. And I'm like, well, that makes sense based on the age of 1996 and how old Bruce Willis was. So director Terry Gillam first met Bruce Willis while casting his film The Fisher King. You ever seen it? Uh maybe. Apparently, really it's got Jeff Bridges and uh Robin Williams. It's supposed to be really good. I think I did, but I don't really know. I think I own it, I just haven't watched it. Like 12 monkeys was for me. So he was impressed by the sensitivity shown by Willis in the scene from Die Hard where McLean talks about his wife pulling glass from his feet while pulling glass from his feet. Talking to Willis, Gillam discovered that this part was ad-lib by Willis. Gillum remembered this and was convinced to cast him in this film. So sometimes he's just like, oh, you ad-libbed it. He's like, right as actor F. I'll be in my film. Um but yeah, that's like another perfect part about like um so kind of when Die Hard came out, you know, every action star was these big macho men. We kind of talked about it when we talked about um Die Hard originally and Patrick Swayze and uh Keanu Reeves and Point Break that everybody had to look like Stallone or Arnold, and they're like, We big men, we men. Even when we like high-five each other, we gotta break each other's hands. And then like Swayze, Keanu, and Willis, they kind of brought the more emotional and sensitive versions of action stars. And like when it just that makes me think him pulling the glass out of his feet, like him sitting on bed on the bed talking to Stowe, just being like, just turn me in. I don't deserve to be here. I'm like, that's something that like Arnold wouldn't be able to do.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

No way. Oh, turn me in. He'd be setting traps for the police.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

I don't want to be back. Crush that accent. Just rips apart the police car. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Takes off the handcuffs as soon as I put them on.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

I am

Why Activists Look Like Villains

SPEAKER_00 18:55

future now. I ate disease. So when Cole is drawing blood from himself, the shadow of a hamster in a hamster wheel can be seen on the wall. The scene the scene I'm gonna skip that. Who gives a fuck about that? So the first cut of this film didn't do too well in test screenings, and so those involved discussed making major changes to the film. However, producer Charles Rovin and director Terry Gillam, who attended the screenings and had talked to the audience members, felt although viewers had certain issues with the movie, they generally loved it. Since Gillam had final cut, he eventually decided largely to keep it as it was. When released, it went on to make over five times its budget. Nice. And the budget of it was I didn't have it prepared.

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Damned.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Now I'm gonna have to look away from my game for five seconds to make this edit. The budget was $29 million. So it crushed. And it's so weird because you just don't feel like movies like this would make that much money. Like now, if you have weird ass movies like this, sometimes it's like it's not gonna make that much money. And it's like, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

You also had things coming out like bats around this time. You remember that one where they introduced bigger bats to take care of the little bats?

SPEAKER_00 20:12

And then like the and like the bats are like, yeah, because there's like the one really worse bat. I remember seeing that on a sci-fi channel when I was a kid. I I I will say I do love movies that just are like it's the creature. Bats.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Yeah. Frogs. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Yeah, uh, I love them. So the army of 12 monkeys is inspired by a passage in L. Frank Baum's novel, The Magic of Oz, in which the Gnome Gnome King and Kiki Oru convince 12 monkeys they will have an endless supply of food if they become human soldiers for them. So that's where they got the title. All right. Take a drink of water. And then we're gonna get into the plot. Before we do that, we want you to think what the point of 12 monkeys is gonna be. And if you have any idea, you can leave us some fan mail. Link in the top of the description just says send us some fan mail. You click it, you can text us from your phone or your computer. And then at the very bottom, there's an email. We recommend mailbag at gmail.com. Just send us some goddamn fan mail.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Let us know if there's anyone out there on the top ground.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Ooh, yeah. Hey, is anybody from the future? Let us know. All right, Jason.

unknown 21:32

I don't know if I'm gonna make it.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Yeah, man. Are you okay? I'm so fucking full, Jason. I'm so full.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Why do you do this to yourself?

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Because I was like, we're gonna do two movies. It's gonna cross into my lunch.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Usually when I eat lunch, so I was like, You can't possibly take a lunch break.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Let me eat a bunch because we gotta hurry up and get this done so I can also edit it.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

All right. Man up, Jesse. Some people go to war. I could talk and be out of breath. That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

You're at war with yourself.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Twelve monkeys, 1995. James Cole is a convicted criminal living in a green grim stroking. I'm having a stroke, not stroking. In a grim apocalyptic future. In 1996, in the earth's surface was contaminated by a virus so deadly that it forced the surviving population to live underground. Seems so fun. Yeah. Uh-huh. Also, I love the jail. Oh, where everyone lives now, apparently? It seems so terrible. It's awful. Giant crane that you just have to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

I know, like the hand thing. Or like the where you pick up the toy, the crane toy. Yeah, it's like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

It's so good. I immediately it was like, I love it. I want that job. I was bummed we didn't get more of this. I was like, let me see this future a little bit more inside this like underground area there. Oh I'm assuming there's like a whole separate like suburb or something like that. Yeah, where people aren't in prison. Yeah, I'm sure this is just like a probably an isolated prison place.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

I thought it was really interesting how they you're forced to be social, and that was one of his problems. Like I would never make it this in this future.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Like, please. Give me five minutes to my spider.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Let me eat some spiders. I just want to be alone.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Yeah. A lot of spider stuff in this. Didn't expect that. So we start with having a flashback of a kid seeing a man shot, and it turns out that little kid is Bruce Willis. And then later we might find out someone else is Bruce Willis. We'll see. And 2035, James Cole is a prisoner living in an underground compound beneath Philadelphia. Cole is sent to the surface periodically to collect biological samples to ascertain the condition of the planet. This is where I put our graders might be.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

But he this is his first time going up, though, isn't it? Seems like it, yes. Because they say no, they were saying no one comes back.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Except. And everyone is kept separate.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

And usually if you do come back, I think they just send you back in time.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

And you're you're pretty much gone forever. Yeah, because you go insane.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Yeah. Um, when you go to the surface, you dress as a sperm and then it wants your futuristic suit. When he goes up, it's the best of sperm. Yeah. When he goes up, it's a snowy rundown landscape. He collects a roach and then gets scared by a bear. See you later. After collecting more samples, he finds a sign with a red monkey on it saying, We did it. Then a lion roars on a building.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Oh my god. Love it.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Just like immediately, I was like, I didn't know what this was. I don't know why there's a lion just roaming in Philadelphia. And we'll find out later. So, to earn a pardon, Cole allows scientists to send him on a dangerous mission to the past to collect information

Production Facts And Box Office

SPEAKER_00 24:55

on the virus, thought to be released by a terrorist organization known as the Army of the Twelve Monkeys. If possible, he is to obtain a pure sample of the original virus so a cure can be made. Cole is trouble is troubled with recurring dreams involving a chase and a shooting in an airport that I said earlier. So yeah, it's just like, hey, you get pardoned. I don't know where you go after you get pardoned. This is why I want to the uh the colony. The colony. Be social again. It's like you have to you get there, it's like I don't want to talk to anybody. Just send me back to jail. So on Cole's first trip, he arrives in Baltimore. Jesus, Baltimore in 1990, not 1996's plan. He is arresting for creating a public nuisance and doesn't have any idea on him.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

And then it turns out covered in goo.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Yeah, and he like beat up some police officers. Um yeah, Cole is hospitalized in a mental institution on diagnosis of Dr. Catherine Rayleigh. Cole claims that he lives underground and says that he's supposed to be in 1996, which is the past for him. I don't know. This part or like Bruce is just kind of crushing it. He's just like drooling out of his mouth. But like, I don't know. You think they drugged him already? Yeah, at that point, well, whenever she first talks to him and he's in a cell, he's already been drugged, and she's and he's just I just thought he was like his brain was rattled from time travel. Yeah. This movie is also anti-doctors.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

These doctors are the worst.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Very anti-doctors. Both doctors in future and now.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Like she's not a good doctor.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yeah, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Not at all. Not that I could tell.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

At first, she seems good, and then like about an hour and a half in the movie, it's a or an hour in the movie, you're like, lady, you're making some wild choices here.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

They have online psychiatrists school doctorate programs.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

It seems like that's what she did. So uh Jimbo is scrubbed down. He asks for a phone call, but everyone is very rude to him. I said Jimbo because that's what the one guy calls him the whole time. You know, loved it. So there he encounters Jeffrey Goines, a fellow Goins, yeah, a fellow mental patient with uh fanatical animal rights and anti-consumerist learnings, or accurate ones.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Just educated him, man.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Jeffrey goes on a spew about commercials and how everything is automated, so all humans are left to do is consume it, feels correct that he says that.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

And everything is so unnaturally like weird in this psych ward or whatever to me. I don't know if this is a normal thing, but they just the the cartoons playing are absolutely nuts.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

It's almost like in every every like um movie, like it's always just like some old like 30 years behind the times on whatever cartoons they have, like mental patients in these wards, like watching, and I'm like, do y'all just know I don't know how like regular TV?

SPEAKER_01 27:47

They're just encouraging the insanity.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Yeah. And then then I love like one because um Jeffrey's the one that's gotta show them around because I guess he's the only one that can talk at this point in this place. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Um most of them are pretty coveted.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

And there's like a guy that like constantly keeps sitting down in private seat and he keeps slapping him on the head, telling him to get up. And I love it. It does it like three times, and on the third one, you can see how the third time they do it, you can see how frustrated the guy that keeps sitting on the tree. It's like, I just want to sit here. Um and then there's also this guy. Uh, he like comes up and he says, I'm from outer space. Yeah, planet Ogo. It's like uh it says I'm he's from outer space, and then he's near neurodivergent, escaping different realities. And I'm like, Well, I mean, he might be because Bruce Willis is from the future. I'm like, I don't know, this guy might be an alien. He could be true. Anything at this point could be true.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Uh but then when he puts his head on his shoulder and then you see his buddy slippers. Yeah. Snappy dressing, though.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Yes, very snappy. Yeah. Cole is interviewed by a panel of doctors and tries to explain that the virus outbreak has already happened and cannot be prevented. He says that the virus will be released by the army of 12 monkeys in 1996, and by 1997, only 1% of the population would survive. He says that he was sent to the wrong time and begs to make one telephone call to sort all this out. Cole tries unsuccessfully to leave a voicemail on a number monitored by the scientist in the future, but the number was not being monitored in 1990. And this is like a family, or it's like a single mother with like five kids that are just going bzonkers, just banging on everything in there. She's like, shut up. Um but yeah, like tough luck. It's like you should have monitored maybe just like 10, just 10 years before it happens. This is if you can catch anything, you know. I don't know. So Cole wants to escape. Jeffrey tells him it's possible, but Cole gets a uh Cole grabs a spider and eats it. And you're like, I have no idea what this would be.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Uh well, he you can kind of see he was looking for something to put it in.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Yeah. But at first I had no idea what he was doing until he goes back to the scientists and say, Hey, I swallowed a spider if you want it. And it's like And that looks like one of those hobo spiders, like like the giant ones, right? These are these are toxic. Well, there's like because you know, it's it's a lot of times like the smaller ones you gotta watch out for in terms of spiders. Because I remember at home growing up, there'd always be like a giant spider web with a giant fucking hideous spider, and I'm like, that thing will bite me and kill me instantly. And then it's like, no, they're completely harmless. Except for the bacteria. But then you're like, oh, this little brown recluse that's like I don't know, a fraction of its size, and it's just like, yeah, I'll kill you in like a day.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

It'll make your body parts rot away and fall off. So I did my dog. Sucked. That's rough stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Anyways. Um, so Cole wants to escape. Jeffrey tells him it's possible, but Cole eats the spider. Jeffrey keeps going on about germs, and while he does, Cole eats the spider. I already said that. Then Jeffrey says he can help him escape.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Wasn't

Send Us Fan Mail

SPEAKER_01 31:05

he like saying you're not crazy? And then he eats the spider. He's like, huh?

SPEAKER_00 31:10

You know, actually, even compared to me, that's a little weird. He also says he will get out soon when his father hears he is in there. Um, orderlies come in and Jeffrey moons them and starts acting up the next day while we see experiments done on animals on TV. Jeffrey hates it and Cole says maybe humans should go extinct. Jeffrey snatched the key and tells Cole it's time to escape. So he starts up some chaos, but Cole is drugged out of his mind. He gets kind of far before being found out and then restrained again, though.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah, it was kind of wild that everybody's just letting them walk by. Yeah. No questions asked.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Like the security guards like, see you later.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Is that like normal protocol? Because he just calls it in, he doesn't actually try to arrest it.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Yeah, I think it's just maybe like an idea that like no one. Did they think he was a doctor?

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Did he think he was a doctor?

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Potentially. I don't know. I don't think this guy was just paying attention that much. I I didn't understand it either. I was like, is this just trying to say something about how the people in charge of these places and things like that like just do not care and they're kind of abusive a little bit and all? Yeah. Because it seemed like it did not like this movie, did not like any of the employees in this place. The only person that seems like a doctor that this movie acts like it likes is uh Rayleigh. Yeah. That's the only one. Um, so after a failed escaped attempt, Cole is restrained and locked in the cell, but then disappears. See another flashback where the man in the airport was Jeffrey. What a twist. Will it also become two different twists later? It will. So, back to the future. Back

Plot Walkthrough Starts

SPEAKER_00 32:55

in his own time, Cole hears a voice from potentially another prisoner. He tells him time travel is not an exact science and makes light of the 12 monkeys. Cole is interviewed by the scientists who play a distorted voicemail message which gives the location of the army of 12 monkeys and says that they are responsible for the virus. Cole says that he did not leave the voicemail as he was in the wrong year. He has also shown photos of numerous people suspected of being involved with the virus, included, including coins.

unknown 33:26

Whew.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Um very fun.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

So that call didn't happen until he went back and went back like a second time.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Like a second time. Yeah, because he goes back like twice, right? After this.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Yeah. Um yeah, and this movie is a time loop movie. Everything's already happened. We're just seeing it from the certain point.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

That's what I was asking though. Is is this a recording that they already knew about before they sent him, ever sent him back in time? Yes. Because if it happened back then, it's had to happen. Because they keep saying that he can't change the future, even though he's trying to. Yeah. But that would have meant that he would change the future.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Yeah. It's just one of those things where you can't change your fate. It's gonna happen. Um but yeah, love it. Love that shit. That stuff makes me all giddy inside. Ugh. If I wasn't just chalk full of food, I'd be pumping my arm right now. Um so this uh disembodied voice we hear, right? Later on, we're gonna hear it again, and it's gonna be like the homeless man. Yeah, bitey. Um, and then he's gonna hear it again later at an airport, and it's there's just a and it's like, is this just an effect of time travel? Yeah. And that even though he hasn't heard this voice yet, he will hear it eventually, and it's because his mind is kind of scrambled in like this timey whimey like loop or whatever, that that's why he's hearing the voice and it's and it's coming from the man that he's about to meet. Like, that's the only thing I can think of. I have no idea otherwise. His brain's messing with him. It's uh it's always fun. Time travel, there's always one point in it where it's like, ah, my head hurts. I don't understand what this or there's just like an aspect where it's like, I don't get what this is.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Well, I think this is one of the or it might be the first time travel movie I've seen where the time travel itself causes like a physical ailment. Yeah, yeah, which is fucking rad. Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Yeah. Which I'm sure it would. Which it makes it more risky, which is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

So the scientists offer Cole another chance to complete his mission and send him back in time. Cole briefly arrives at a battlefield during World War I where he sees another per prison inmate who was sent back in time. Jose. Cole is shot in the leg and gets transported in 1996. Yeah, he's like his face is burning. And then Bruce Willis is appears in naked and then gets shot in the leg.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Terminator style.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

And it's like all these people are like, who are you? Why are you here? It's like Did they send him back naked? I think they mess, I think you get sent naked. Okay. So every time he like has to steal clothes.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

The time tunnel must be super slippery.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

It definitely is not an accurate time machine. So in 1996, Rayleigh gives a lecture about the Cassandra Cassandra complex, a psychological phenomenon that describes when someone's accurate predictions of a crisis are ignored or dismissed. The term comes from the Greek mythology, mythological figure Cassandra, who was given the gift of prophecy by Apollo, but was cursed so that no one would believe her. That sucks. You just spend your whole life getting gaslit. Yeah. So yeah, while she's there, um, she's given this presentation to a group of scientists. Um, she shows a picture of Jose and brings up

Mental Ward Chaos And Escape

SPEAKER_00 36:45

that he warned them about 1996 at the post-apocalyptic the post-lecture book signing. Rayleigh meets Dr. Peters, who tells her that apocalypse alarmists represent the same vision while humanity's gradual destruction of the environment is the real lunacy. Um yeah, and he's got a line. The cries of let's go shopping is the cry of the real lunatic. This movie hates that people buy stuff. Anytime I do watch a movie like this, I'm immediately like, I'm never spending money ever again on anything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

Anti-consumerism.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Yeah. I know, it's like the most expensive thing. Games and movies and gas. Other than that, I don't really buy anything. No. So Cole arrives at the venue after seeing flyers publicizing it. Cole kidnaps Rayleigh and sets out in search of goins, learning that he's the founder of the Army of 12 Monkeys. They listen to the radio on the way to Philly. He thinks uh a Florida Keys commercial is talking to him and loves the radio and fresh air.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

It's an advertisement, Mr. Cole.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Rayleigh is freaked the fuck out though. Um, he says his father told him never to cry wolf. That's how you know he's telling the truth. He wouldn't be crying wolf for no reason. But yeah, and like her performance the whole time is great. Like, oh my god, I'm gonna die. Oh my god, this guy's gonna kill me. I'm so fucked.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Um, yeah, I'd be terrified.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Yeah, and especially because it's like if he wasn't doing the whole radio, what music, crazy, fresh air, I love it. Yeah, which only makes them seem more insane to a normal person who doesn't live underground in a post-apocalyptic 2035. So they stop at the Oasis Hotel, and while sleeping, Cole has a dream of the airport and he sees a vision of Rayleigh running the airport, running in the airport. He creeps her out by standing over her and touching her face while she is laying down. He explains his dream to her. Yeah. There is a lot of almost uh uh sexual abuse in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

That happens. There's still a lot of chances for her to just get the fuck out of it.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Well, there, yeah. But I mean, there are a lot of parts in this movie where I'm like, oh no, is he about to? Or and then there's a scene that's about to come up where they get attacked and it's like, oh no, please don't do this. And then like there's a scene a little later where he's like, he smells her hair and it's like, I'm so sorry, and she starts saying no. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? Why do we keep almost making this happen in the movie? Making me feel gross. Yeah. Um, so they head off again um on the radio, they hear about a boy stuck in a well. Get him, lassie. Cole says it's the first time he uh, whenever he was a child in 1996, it was the first time he was ever actually scared.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Man, there hasn't been like a good will fall in a while.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

For real. The last time we had something like that was like the boy in the balloon. I don't know if you remember that. Where he tied a bunch of balloons to his Well, there's like this giant helium balloon, and I guess he got in it, and it turns out that he wasn't in it at all.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Oh I think they had a documentary on it. So they just watched this chair fly through the sky and they thought he was on it.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

No, it's like a giant balloon, and he was inside the balloon. Yeah, and they so they couldn't see him, so they didn't know if he was in there or not. And they're like, we can't pop it, we just kind of gotta wait for it to fall down, and then it like turns out he wasn't there at all. That's crazy. Spoiler if you ever read about that. Um, he tells her the boy isn't in the well and is hiding in a barn. She's like, oh, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Um, you know, that kid is probably freaking out. He's like, oh man, I didn't mean it for it to get this bad.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

This got a little bit crazier than I thought.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

So I can't go back now.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

My family is gonna be ridiculed forever. So Cole stops the car because he sees the 12 monkeys sign. Uh, she could have left, but gets out. He drags her around following a paint trail of the 12 monkeys. He goes into a homeless den. They are both attacked. Cole fights them off uh both off. Uh then they run off. Cole sees a door with a pig over it called FAA, where um they have animal noises playing. He goes in saying he wants to speak to the leader, then pulls a gun on them when they're like, we don't know what you're talking about. Then they mentioned Jeffrey. They explained that Jeffrey didn't think protesting was enough and wanted to do more like setting off snakes in a Senate meeting. Jeffrey then wants to help his father with his work to help protect animals. You know, it's like, oh, this is how he's gonna get the virus because they're doing like biological work in his business and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

It's crazy that he tells uh James there that it was all his idea.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

So that kind of threw me for a loop.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yeah, because the whole time from the Yeah, it's just like, oh, you gave me the idea in 1990.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Um if they never would have sent him back, they would have been okay. Or they had to.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Potentially, but it had to happen.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Because it's but it really wasn't his idea.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Yeah, it wasn't his idea. Okay.

Time Loop Logic And Side Effects

SPEAKER_00 41:55

So they steal one of the cars to go find Jeffrey. Uh Rayleigh tells him that he heard all about all this from Jeffrey in the Missile Institute. He then reveals he has been shot. She says he has to take it out while taking out the wound. We hear I don't know why I'm doing it like that. We hear more radio about the Newman boy in the well. Um, she takes out the bullet uh out of the wound and sees it's an old timey whimey bullet. He loves seeing the sun. He sniffs her hair and says sorry and looks like he's about to molest her, and then it cuts away. And I'm like, What did he do?

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yep. Uh but uh when he grabs her wrist, she's like, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Yeah, and it's like uh stay tuned. It's not gonna be that bad. Um, we hear two guards at a mansion talking about lowering a monkey to find the kid in the well. There's a lot of monkey business in this movie. Not just 12 monkeys. I can only assume they said 12, they don't they said monkeys 12 times. I can only assume that's the bit. I don't know. Um we see Cole hiding under a car and goes to the mansion but drops his gun. Classic. So in the mansion, an old man is making a speech, which is uh Jeffrey's father. Jeffrey is sleeping and then is called away to meet Cole. He gets mad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

It's like my father's giving a presentation.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Yeah, I was getting my some sleep in. When uh Cole confronts Jeffree, he denies any involvement with a group and says that in 1990, Cole originated the idea of wiping out humanity with a virus stolen from uh Jeffree's uh virologist father, Dr. Leland Goines. After getting upset, we hear while Cole is being oh, so then he gets upset and he's like, ah to Jeffrey, and then like people are like, oh my god. Um and then he starts getting chased and he's like running. Um and puts him over the balcony. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

It looks crazy.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

And then while Cole is running around, we hear um we hear Hear that Riley was uh strangled and mutilated by Cole, but she is actually in the trunk of the car. Um, and like, so yeah, whenever he gets out of the building, he uh comes back to the car, she pops out, starts beating the shit out of him. Yeah, yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

That was that was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

But then she still just wants to uh just give some help to him.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

That's when she could have totally got away. Yeah. She had him by the balls.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

Well, which I mean, then like, you know, um while trying to get help, Cole just disappears and she turns around and she's like, well, fuck. And then we kind of cut away to she's being interviewed by Christopher Maloney. Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. Because he's the law and order guy. Yeah. Or more importantly, he is well, American summer guy. Oh, nice. That talks to a can and loves the refrigerator.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

That's him.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Yeah, that's him. Wow. Yeah. Um love that guy. Yeah. At her house, she finds out that the kid was actually hiding in the barn. Got her. Cole's like, told your bitch. Um, and then there's also a line where like someone's like, Oh, do you need to take something? She's like, Sedet sedatives mess with my head. And it's like, oh, you don't have any problem subscribing, subscribing it to the mental patients, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Just willy-nilly injecting people with them.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

This movie hates the way people are treated in mental.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Yeah. I mean, it's uh sorry truth.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yeah. So Cole is transported back to 2035. They are where they are singing Blueberry Hill. They tell him he is close to getting his pardon. He says he's terrified. He just wants to get well.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Do you think these people would know how to wake someone up gently? It's gonna be like a traumatic experience.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

You know, hey, yeah, we know that time travel is scrambling your brain, so we're gonna sing really close to your face. A very like jarring song to wake up to. Um, he's begging to like he's like

Cassandra Complex And 1996 Trail

SPEAKER_00 46:05

really he's starting to lose his mind, so he's not even sure that he's like any of this is real anymore. Yeah. He's like, Am I hallucinating at this point? Um, and then like this is where I got the line from the beginning: I am insane, and you are my insanity. Yeah, hell yeah. After receiving a shot and waking back up, he hears the man again calling him Bob, the same man, old man that confronted him on the street. The voice tells him that he wants to be outside, see this guy, and be with her.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Yeah. Seems a lot better than whatever he's going through. Yeah, what's happening right now, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Every I'd make that decision every time.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

Yeah. So after Cole disappears, Rayleigh begins to doubt her diagnosis diagnosis of Cole when she finds evidence that he is telling the truth, including a photograph of him from World War I. I think this might be where she remembers him. Uh Cole, on the other hand, convinces himself that the future experiences are hallucinations and persuades the scientists to send them back again. We see Dr. uh Goins talking on the phone with Rayleigh and won't give any information about Jeffrey. Dr. Goins' assist assistant was at her lecture earlier. We see that it's Dr. Peters. He looks terrible with red hair. Yeah. And then the little ponytail at the same time. I know. It's awful on him. It's brutal. And then uh Dr. Goins wants to beef up security because he might be worried that Jeffrey's coming.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

I couldn't even look at him without just like being disgusted.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

It's never a good thing when he's in a movie either. Every time you see him, it's like, oh, he's gonna be a shitty person. And it was funny because like as I was watching it, once we get to the end and we find out it's him, the whole time I'm like, I don't, I it never popped into my mind. I don't know if it's because there's so much happening constantly throughout this movie that I'm just like bombarding my senses that I can't even think about this one guy that just randomly popped up for one line and then disappeared an entire movie, essentially. I should have seen it coming.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

I I've never thought the same about what's his what's his name? Um that actor since he did that video for the army. Like I'll never forget it.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Oh, really? I didn't I haven't heard about that.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

It's he's like on one of the one of those things you ride on with the wheels segue while the soldiers are doing uh PT in the morning, they're all running, and he's talking to the soldiers um and this girl says something, and he's like, Yeah, you are more than a pretty face. Wow. And she just smiles and giggles. It's so bad. Wow. That was one of the first videos they showed us.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

It's a recruitment video?

SPEAKER_01 48:50

No, it was like um how to deal with stress, basically. And like they never showed it again after that, but we did watch it.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

Was everybody just like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 49:01

Nobody said it either.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

Or everybody's like, eh, nah, she just had pretty face in my fit. That was probably more like that. So Rayleigh goes to the 12 monkeys hideouts, and they are actually working with Jeffrey that we see inside. The homeless man talks to her again, and we s and when she brings up Cole, he acts confused. So then we're immediately like, so this guy doesn't know him, but we're hearing his voice. So she is spray painting the building, and she sees Cole, who is saying he wants to turn himself in to get better. He sees that she spray painted something about the virus, a picture he saw in the future. Jeffrey rants about how he thinks Rayleigh knows about the 12 monkeys because of all the testing on his brain. It's like they put me in all these things, doing x-rays in my brain, things like that. It's like they know everything.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

I love how they've got all those like vitals, like video of his vitals on the screen everywhere around him. So he's watching it, probably going insane and watching his heartbeat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Oh, and apparently, um, for this movie, they uh the contacts that Brad Pitts wears, like they're hand-painted and stuff like that. Yeah, because so that it's like because I think he has like blue eyes, Brad Pitt, and they wanted to make him, you know, not look like a beautiful Brad Pitt. They tried it as hard as they could, and it still only kind of worked.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

Probably also to distinguish from that little boy, so you wouldn't think it was him. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Um, yeah, so they stop and rent a room. The guy at the desk calls a guy asking if he has a new prostitute, because it's essentially just like a rundown building where prostitutes come and have sex.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

Yeah, maybe pay by the hour.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Yeah, pay by the hour. It's expensive too by the hour, Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Especially in 1996.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

Yeah. Um, she wants to find out questions, but now he thinks he is actually crazy. Then she shows him a picture of World War I. He tells her he wants to he wants this to be his president and he wants to stay with her, and it's just like, oh, Bruce Willis is acting good and making me feel no. And then uh Rayleigh has the idea to call a number from earlier, but is interrupted by Pimp, who thinks she is a prostitute and is on in his territory.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

This guy plays a great and like crazy psycho person.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

And then, like, immediately a wimp. As soon as he doesn't have the upper hand, he's a baby. He hits her and coal attacks and kills him, or so we think he's going to. Uh, she just wanted to tie him up and rob him. It's like, because at this point, she's like, it's like, tie him up and take his money. It's like we're gonna need it. Yeah. Uh, but then it's like he we think he's gonna kill him in the bathtub and ends up just pulling out his own teeth so that he can't.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

Just goes uncovered in blood with a knife.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

And it's like he can't, because apparently we learned he can't be taken back to the future. If they can't find him or something, well, uh yeah, it's like something in their teeth. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

So that was real. Yeah. Because I look when he showed his open his hand, it was just a tooth. I didn't see anything.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Yeah, well, yeah, it's just two teeth. So I don't know if it's you have to have all your teeth.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

Well, he said just to make sure. So he really he didn't find anything, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Yeah. He just took us to like. I'm not gonna lie, I have no idea what this aspect of the film was. It was not very well

Voicemail Paradox And Proof

SPEAKER_00 52:20

explained.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Um but they did get some money. Yeah. Some walking around money.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Walking around money. Gator don't play no shit.

SPEAKER_01 52:31

So then they run away. All Gator's bitches were rubber.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

So Rayleigh attempts to settle the question of Cole Sanity by leaving a voicemail on the number he provided, creating the message the scientists played prior to his second mission. They both now realize that the coming plague is um oh, well, so yeah. So she goes, makes the voicemail, then she comes back, we're insane, we're insane. It was just the carpet company. We're going crazy. Yeah, none of this is real. And then um, then she's like, Yeah, called, and then I said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then he's like, and then he finishes the rest of everything. It's like, I was way over there, you couldn't hear me, could you? And he's like, No. And she's like, Fuu. So they both now realize that the coming plague is real and hide from the police by getting disguises. They shop in the same store from the beginning of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

Oh, that was all fucked up.

SPEAKER_00 53:29

Yeah, because you kind of see a lot of like a bear at the makeup counter.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Well, I don't know if you I don't know if you notice. Um, like because I think it was during the scene, he's kind of looking around. He sees like a fake bear in like a store and then like a lion, and it's like, huh.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

What is real?

SPEAKER_00 53:46

Yeah, and I because I think that was like a part of it for him, is like, oh, this is where I'm getting all this stuff in my head. I'm walking around and seeing it, and then like coming up with these hallucinations in my mind. Um, and then it's immediately completely like, no, actually, it's all real. So we see the 12 monkeys gang getting ready. They have Jeffrey's dad tied up. He tells his son that he doesn't have access to the codes or virus anymore, and then they start making monkey noises.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

These people are so stressful to be around. I couldn't handle it.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

A bunch of odd ones.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Like, I'm all for standing up for animal rights, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

And which is like something they always do in movies. It's like they make them just completely crazy. So while watching the Redwood scene in Vertigo, let's go go to our previous episode of Vertigo.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

Yeah, Vertigo was cool.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

Um, and bandaging up coal in a theater, they make plans to enjoy the time they have left. They decide to depart for the Florida Keys before the start of the plague, and she a lot of advertisements for Florida Keys.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Yeah, yeah. Um I mean, I guess it's nice. I've never been.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

I mean, I'm assuming they just put all that in there just to be like, oh, and then they're gonna go to Florida Keys, and it's just all a setup to make sure they get to the airport and wear a Hawaiian shirt. Yeah. Um uh before the start of the plague, and she dyed her hair blonde like a Hitchcock female lead. Oh, yeah. Birds, all of them, psycho. They all have blonde hair. At first, she is so happy that oh wait. He says it's like a is it says it's like it's like my dream now. And it's like that you should be doing everything the opposite of what your dream is to make everything completely wrong. Um, she says it's like she has always known him, and then they kiss and embrace.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

I know I was sitting there trying to figure out how the fuck does she know him? Is she gonna end up being like his mom?

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Yeah, that's yeah, that's what I thought. And then like by the end of the movie, you just like she only knew it, I'm assuming one one of two things. She saw him in the World War I photos, yeah, and that's how she knows him. And then also just kind of maybe that's like the product of messing with time, like the ones you get close to, maybe it kind of just like gives them weird deja vu and stuff like that. Um, so you see that the 12 monkeys have let out a bunch of animals from the testing center. Well, in a cab, they learn about the 12 monkeys uh and how they have struck, but it was just letting out the animals. So they're like, oh, it's all safe. We are kind of crazy still.

SPEAKER_01 56:17

And then you're like, oh shit, what do we miss? Yeah, right. Now we gotta start over. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

And then so uh Cole and Rayleigh learned that the army of 12 monkeys was not the source of the epidemic, um, and just releasing animals.

SPEAKER_01 56:29

Or was it? Was red hair in charge of 12 monkeys? Was he could he have given them the idea?

SPEAKER_00 56:38

No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

So at the airport, Cole realizes that he was

Twist At The Airport Ending

SPEAKER_00 56:45

at this airport as a kid. While getting tickets, we see a case that we saw from the earlier vision visions of Cole. Cole leaves a last message telling the scientists they are on the wrong track, following the army of 12 monkeys, and that he will not return. We see someone dressed like Jeffrey from Cole's Vision, getting a bunch of tickets all over the world. Cole goes to the bathroom and he hears the voice from the future, and it's just some guy in the bathroom, though.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

This poor guy.

SPEAKER_00 57:10

And so it's just like, is he? I'm assuming he's just hearing things.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

And I bet this happens a lot in Philadelphia.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Or like, is this guy from the future and he just follows him around? But it did the guy didn't sound like it sounded like the older man, so uh yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's just like time. Time won't even know how to describe it. Like some brain jelly. Yeah. So Cole is soon confronted by Jose, an acquaintance from his own time, who gives Cole a hung handgun and instructions to complete his mission. Rayleigh spots Dr. Peters at the airport and recognizes him from the newspaper as an assistant of uh Jeffrey's father. Peter is about to embark on a tour of several cities that matches the viral outbreaks chronologically and geographically.

SPEAKER_03 57:58

So we should talk about this.

SPEAKER_00 58:02

He's gonna die too. Yes. What's the point?

SPEAKER_01 58:05

I don't think he's even gonna make it to be king. Or how long does it take for you to die from this thing? I mean, it looks like he's already having trouble.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Pretty much immediately, it seems like it's it's a fast acting for sure.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

And you think like towards the end of his journey, uh, they see this guy that is sickly ill and dying, like oh man, he can't get on this plane.

SPEAKER_00 58:26

Yeah. And do you think which I mean maybe we'll get into a little bit later at the point, but so like in this whole movie, like all these mentally ill people uh are being told that you know they're dangerous and have all these problems, and then it's just a doctor that is like, I'm gonna destroy the world. I feel like there's a little bit of a point there, right? Yeah, as a true psychopath. It's like how we're treating all these like sick people, and then this doctor is just like he views humanity as a disease. Yeah, and it's like, man, this movie red flags we all looked over with this. Doctors. So uh Rayleigh tells Cole that it's Peter's. While they are fighting through a crowd, we see security checking Peter's bag and little Cole in the airport. Peter tricks security because the virus is invisible and looks like empty containers.

SPEAKER_01 59:24

Yeah, I'll I'll never understand what would make someone like want to open a canister like that.

SPEAKER_00 59:31

Yeah, it's like, look, uh yeah, it's uh I guess TSA has really come a long way. 1996, you know, he used to be able to do whatever you want then.

SPEAKER_01 59:39

Where nobody thought that anything bad could happen on an airplane. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 59:44

It's like airplanes do the safest things ever. Yeah. Um, so Cole, while fighting through security, is fatally shot as he tries to stop Peters. As Cole dies in Rayleigh's arms, she makes eye contact with a small boy, the young James Cole, witnessing his own death, the scene that will replay in his dreams for years to come. Yeah. Peters aboard the plane with the virus, sits down next to Jones, one of the scientists from the future, who comments that her job is insurance. The young Cole watches a plane take off from the ground outside of the airport. The end. I kind of really dislike, you know, just really ran by the ending of the climax of the movie, didn't I? But it really is. It's just like a long slow motion thing of him running and then just get shot and he just looks like uh you've already seen the scene like five times already. And he looks exactly like the guy that got shot at the beginning of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:35

Mustache was falling off.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:36

Yeah. So, um what's the point of the movie?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

Uh I don't know, man. Is it something like feeling hopeless about not being able to change the future?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of what I put. You can't change the past, but you can learn from it. Which I feel like is the ultimate point of the movie. It's like, hey, you can go back in time, you can't change any of it, but you can learn and then, you know, fix the virus.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

And that there's definitely something going on with our healthcare system.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

Yeah.

unknown 1:01:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

No, that it all seems to be checking out right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

And uh, yeah.

unknown 1:01:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

Consumerism, like basically everything that Brad Pitt was talking about.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

Yeah. So um, and then also like the whole move is just like a facade, right? Bruce Willis is just being used. All they need is to know who set off the virus. Once they know this, the doctor is sent back in time as insurance. Uh, and it's like just a whole time loop movie. Because I'm assuming like when that's a scientist, she looks exactly the same age from 2035. Assuming it's like, oh, so now we know it's this guy. Now we can go back in time. Now I can go back, be on there, get the virus, learn from it, and then come back. She's insurance. And then yeah. That's how I that's how I perceived that final.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Do you think she took the virus back to the future? Well, she at least got her hands on it a little bit so that they're definitely infected. She touched his hand.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

That is what I don't get. Because he opened the whole canister, but I guess it's closed while she's I mean, it's already around. I don't know. I think they kind of like just uh I think she took it back to the future and destroyed the human race for good. Yeah, maybe it was her the whole time. Um I also find it interesting that the present looks like a pop post-apocalyptic. Everything is run down and the streets are filled with homelessness and trash and everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

So yeah, you couldn't even tell the difference.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:33

I feel like it just seems like Terry Gillam was trying to say something about uh present day in America, maybe. I don't know, back then. Can't tell. But I was just like, there is no reason to make this town look this run down this much.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

That's a huge problem, apparently.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

Yeah. Um which I really didn't know about. You never really hear about it in Philadelphia, mainly just New York and LA and stuff like that. They never really come out and say it about other cities. I guess it's because those are like the most liberal parts, so it's like a topic in Tennessee that people constantly talk about. And it's just like I wasn't even I didn't want to talk to you. Why'd you just walk up to me and bring that up?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

Yeah, well, I think uh

Themes Hopelessness And Consumerism

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

trash tornado kind of sums it up.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:12

Yeah, I mean, uh gotta look that up after this. So we're gonna hit by our next category: the good, the bad, the ugly, the fine. It's where we discuss the good of the film, something we liked, the bad, something we didn't like, the ugly, something that didn't age well, the fine, something that did age well. I just put uh for good acting and set decoration. Yeah. Crushed. Loved it. It's like everything looked great. Well looked shitty, but look great.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:36

It was kind of cool. Yeah. I did there's some lighting that was weird, but very like steampunky the feature was, which is it was, but it was also a little too um sterile. Yeah, it's very mechanical slash sterile.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:50

It's like weird, it's a weird combination. It's very terribly, which was fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

Hell yeah. So for my good I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:59

I think um it's just time travel, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:06

Yeah, time travel.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:08

Makes you think it's so much fun. It's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:12

For the bad, I would say uh his costume. Yeah, his condom costume. It's con his sucks. I feel like they could have done better. And also like the cops, uh the underground security guards had these like weird blinking things on their chests.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

Like this is all very I just don't know what any of it is. I feel like I thought it was cameras, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

I felt I felt like it looked like a toy. Yeah. You know what I mean? It looked it looked kind of cheap. Yeah. In a way. But maybe if if you think that they're getting all their garbage and they're making it in the city, yeah, if everything is like possible.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:43

They're just kind of like probably recycling all their plastic to make things and things like that. Yeah. I think it was kind of I think that was kind of what it was trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:51

The repurpose, like everything's repurposed for real things.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

Yeah, it's like I don't even know how they made that giant ball TV thing. I don't know. For my bad, I I really I didn't have anything that I thought was bad in this movie. Uh, I thought it the film holds up pretty good for um 1995. Um, for the ugly, um, movies always make um the crazy people talk about a virus that is gonna kill a bunch of people, but in real life it's the people who don't believe in the viruses that seem more crazy. Um and also Terry Gillam, he was very anti-me too. Oh man. Yeah, he has uh he has some comments about things like that that he did. I mean, it was mainly just like it's just like we're just we're just like ending people's careers with like no evidence things and stuff like that, which I don't know. Well, I mean 'cause he's like, yeah, Harvey Ryan. There's a lot of evidence.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

In some cases.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

It's like a lot of cases there was plenty of most of the people that got me too, uh, there were like pretty obvious reasons why they should have been.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

True.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

But it well, it's always also that kind of thing where I mean, and there were people that it like, you know, they start getting me too, and it's like, oh, it turns out they weren't it didn't happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:10

And then I can't imagine that that was the majority though. Wasn't a lot. Right. No.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:14

But I mean, there were like some like even like some cr creators that like I watched

Good Bad Ugly Fine Ratings

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

and like got me too'd, and I was like, this really came out of nowhere. There's like some like some of those cases where it's like, oh, it wasn't anything, and then like their careers are already ruined. And I think that's where he is getting his point, but it's just like I don't know, man. I'm not here to discuss any of that. I don't know. The world will situate itself out.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

I was so mad when Lewis CK got me too. I mean, one that deserved it a lot. Yeah, so they thought it was like it's it's so horrible. Like when you're people you you find out things about people you like.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

Yeah, especially because he was like, he seemed like a genuinely good dude, and like his comedy was amazing. Like he was one of the funniest comedians. And then it's just like, why do you have to put people in those situations, dude? Go look at yourself in the mirror and jerk off your freak. So frustrating. And hey, everybody out there with opinions, you don't have to say them. I say them all the time in my podcast, and then I listen to him editing it while I'm editing, and then I cut it out. Nice because I'm like, this is a fucking movie podcast. Why why am I discussing this? Um, well, so something that aged well, 90s Bruce Willis and 90s Brad Pitt. I look amazing. They're like some of our best actors in that decade, and it was great.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:38

Um, and also I was surprised when I saw uh that it wasn't a body double for Bruce Willis's shower scene. I was like, God, I was like, for sure they used a body double.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:49

He he he shows his butt. He showed his butt in plenty of movies for free? Are you kidding me? Well, he got paid later. Who shows their butt? I'm sure he probably got a lot of money after this.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

This is bad business.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:58

Once it made five times his budget, I'm sure the boy got paid a lot of money afterwards. Uh I'm sure it was one of those clauses like I checked. I'm sure he probably got a portion of the profits. That's probably it's like I'll sign on if I can get some profits right. But yeah, that's uh you got anything for the fine? H twil?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

Uh I don't know, weird science shit. You know, yeah. It's always fun, like mad scientist type stuff, which these guys are on the verge of, I feel like.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:28

Yeah, and I feel like if you're gonna make a sci-fi movie from the future, it's gotta be a little wacky. Needs to be wacky. Otherwise, why set it in the future in sci-fi? So we're gonna hit up our next category and our final one double features where we recommend a movie to go alongside this movie. I picked the

Double Features Primer And Fight Club

SPEAKER_00 1:08:45

2004 very uh it's uh it's called Primer. I don't know if you've heard of it. I don't know. It's a time travel movie, it's made by with a $7,000 budget. What? Yeah, crazy. Um, and it's essentially like these two guys that's going to make a time travel machine very tough to watch in junior high when I first watched it. It's so not cinematic. The movie is not cinematic at all. But and it's just like there's portions of it where like it's not like, hey, they time travel. It's like it just kind of happens, and then the next thing you know, you're seeing multiple versions of them in different areas, and you're like, what the fuck is going on?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:33

That sounds cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

Um, but then like I watched it a little later in life and I was like, I'll get it. It turns out I needed to not be like what year four, like uh 13 or 14 when watching this, and then I could understand it. Um so even a movie like my mom watched, she's like, Yeah, I really liked it. Don't know what happened, but I liked it. And I'm like, nice. Are you where I get all my sci-fi and time travel stuff from? It is. Um, but yeah, it's just like two friends make a time machine and it's great. Uh so what do you got?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:05

Are they like shaking it for like the time travel sequence? Yeah. It's like rocking back and forth.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:10

It's wild. It's just like it just goes to show you what you can make with even on a low budget. It's fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:17

I guess I'll choose fight club. Yeah, yeah. Jeffrey reminded me a lot of uh what's his name? Dirt uh uh Tyler Durden. Tyler Durden. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

Just less switchy.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:29

Lessy less switchy.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:31

More more uh fisty, less twisty.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:34

He did get he did get fisty.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:35

He was real fisty about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

And he wore the gloves to get fisty sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:39

Get

Next Week Anaconda And Wrap

SPEAKER_00 1:10:40

fisty. Cool. So that is the conclusion of this week's episode on 12 monkeys. I hope you enjoyed it. And if you're like me and watched it for the first time, hell yeah, right, guys. Make sure you join us next week for Anaconda. Watched it earlier this year, wanted to immediately do it for the podcast, so now we're doing it. It's a goofy ass movie. Don't ask me what John Boyd's doing. Screaming snakes. Yeah. Derpy ass looking snake. I love him. He's so handsome. So yeah, join us for anaconda. It's a 90s classic baby. It's so bad that it's just bad, but I also fucking love it. No, it's a very fun, it's a very fun, uh I can't wait. Very fun 90s movie. It's like back when we, you know, we could even make bad movies, and they're still better than any movie. Any mediocre movie today, just about. Um, but yeah, join us next week for that. Um, yeah, so leave us some fan mail. Told you how to do it earlier. Just go to the description and see everything you need to see. Yeah. Um, we're getting a lot of new listens, like 40 or 50 a day now. Oh, yeah. It's getting pretty cool. I'm getting very excited. I'll look at the numbers right now for today. Watch it be the first day in like a week, we get very low numbers. Nope, 52. It's so fucking wild. Nice. Especially since a week ago, we're getting five to six a day. So I don't know what has happened. We must be on some sort of list or something. Oh no, shit. This is what happened. They put us in the draft list. Now we're getting views. Um, but yeah, thank you for listening. Please leave us some reviews, rate us, you know, like, follow, subscribe, tell your friends about us. Please. Uh it won't hurt you. You know?

unknown 1:12:27

Probably.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:28

Put down Pocopia and leave us a review.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:30

That's a big ask.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:31

It is. Uh uh, but yeah, this has been the We Ray. Oh, thank you, Joey Processor, for intro and outro music fallmont x at Mr. Joey Processor. This has been the We Recommend Podcast. I've been Jesse. I've been Jason. Um time travel.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:49

Bye.