Heathers

Heathers starts like a familiar high school movie and then snaps into something way darker and smarter, a satire that doesn’t let the adults, the popular kids, or the audience off the hook. We recommend it, and then we spend the episode tracing the moment it clicks: this isn’t just “mean girls with edge,” it’s a story about how cruelty becomes normal at school while everyone waits for a tragedy to finally pay attention.

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Music produced by Joey Prosser. X @mrjoeyprosser

Transcript

Welcome And Movie Recommendation

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hello and welcome to the We Recommend Podcast, a movie podcast where every week we recommend a movie for you to watch, and then come back here and listen to us discuss. I'm Jesse. I'm Jason. Whether to kill yourself or not is one of the most important decisions a teenager can make. Because this week we recommend Heathers. Good job, Jesse. Thank you, Mark, for recommending these two movies. Uh, Heathers and Devil in a Blue Dress. They're both god dang bangers. Uh holy crap. Everybody recommend movies that I haven't seen because I love them.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

I know I was completely not ready for this shit.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Yeah. Dude, this movie, like, I know I've already told you at work this, but like halfway through the movie, I had to stop taking my notes because I did not know what this movie was. I knew it was kind of like I didn't think it was a parody, but I knew it was kind of making, I thought it was just kind of making fun of, you know, movies like this. Like, uh, what's his name? Shit, completely blinking. Guy did like 16 candles and all those movies. I was like, oh, we're just making fun of that stuff. And then it came to the scene where after they cow tip and um when Ono Ryder's character is just walking back up to talk to um.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Which is upside down.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Right. And then I just see like um one of the dudes and one of the heathers, like, it seems like they're kind of fighting on the ground. I'm like, are they having sex? And I was like, Yeah, is this a date rate scene? Yes, and then I was like, wait a second. All right. I've been looking at this movie a little weird. This is like this is a dark satire, and I need to go back and restart it and restart doing and changing some of my notes.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Change your glasses. Well, I was just like From the rose color to the dark satire.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

I was like, this is saying this is definitely saying more than I thought it was saying. So it is John Hughes. It's like, I'm like, this is a satire on John Hughes movies and how we look at teenagers in high school and the lack of stuff, the the fact that we don't pay attention to him until a tragedy happens. And I'm like, oh, this is better than I this is good. This is a good movie.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

It was pretty good and fucking wild that he didn't get immediately arrested. I know, and not allowed to come back ever again.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

I didn't realize you could just bring guns in the late 80s to school and just shoot blanks. It's like, wow, this is really normal. But it's California. Yeah, it is California. Yeah, they

Realizing Heathers Is Dark Satire

SPEAKER_01 2:40

do.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

They're so pro-guns.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

They're very lenient on gun rules. They love them there. So there's so many bears. Yeah. We uh we obviously like the movie a lot. Um, I was curious, did you really have clicks when you were in high school? There's a few years' difference in us.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

We didn't Yeah, I mean, there was like sure, there were the clicks. I wasn't a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Well, was it like very uh like how in movies where you have jocks with jocks and with cheerleaders, and then you have like your nerdy groups, and then you have your golf. So I didn't really have anything like that. We all kind of meshed it. I mean, there had you had your friends group, but like footballers would hang out with like everybody and a nerds are I just got picked on by everybody.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Same. So like yeah, you know, even though I was a jock and a nerd. Yeah. Um, I I got picked on by both groups. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

So it was gr amazing. Do you know what's really sad? As like a um mid-30s man, I still have bad dreams about walking into the cafeteria. Oh, and like it's the you know, it's the a new semester and I don't know who's in the lunchroom with me. So I go in there and I'm like, I don't see anybody that I I don't see like the five people I feel comfortable sitting with in my in the lunch area. So I'm like, I have nowhere to sit. What do I do? Like, I still have those nightmares, and I'm like, this sucks.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Yeah, I I have nightmares, but I always um I usually like sometimes I I I never had a problem with sitting alone. Yeah. Because I was just weird. I guess I always felt like a loser. I had dreams about other things, but yes, I do still have those dreams.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Well, I still have dreams about like not getting my homework done and stuff like that. I'm like, I'm not in school, I haven't been in school forever. Yeah, they're horrible. It's like truth high school is way too traumatic for me for just in terms of social levels, not like I got beat up or anything, but it was just like I was never I was too quiet, so I didn't really have that many like friend groups. And my best friend was to like two grades above me. So once and then his friends were my friends, so once they were gone, it was like, oh no, I don't like anybody.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

It's like I have like these very small connections with a few people in my grade, so it's like you can't sit with the cool people, but you also don't want to sit with a guy who only eats ketchup packets. It's totally it's so I wasn't friends with that guy either. Yeah, I don't mean me neither. Like that's that's what I'm saying. It's like there's nowhere to sit.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

I spent most of my time in the lunchroom sitting with a table where I knew one person and then I didn't talk the entire time. That was like four years of my life. Yeah, this is awkward.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

I'd always start up my lunch first and then like leave. I gotta go. We couldn't do that.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

We had to stay.

High School Cliques And Lingering Trauma

SPEAKER_01 5:26

All right. Um, so um I was just curious, did you so a lot of the things that I was noticing the first time I was watching, I was like, man, this movie like really pinpoints colors, like the colors that people wear. Like you have like the red Heather Chandler, she has she wears red. It's kind of like power, she's the leader. And then you have Heather Duke who wears green, and I'm like, well, that's obviously greed and kind of um that was uh Shannon Doherty's Doherty, whatever however you ever say her last name's thing. Um and then Heather McManera wears MacInara MacNamera wears yellow, and she kind of symbolizes like I guess yellow is kind of like cowardice or you know, like just uh quiet. I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Yeah, that makes sense. No, I didn't I did not know this.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

And the Veronica, she sports blue, showing like intelligence and loyalty and stuff like that. I was like, oh shit, this movie that was kind of like one of the things I was like, all right, so they're changing colors for the Heathers. I was like, man, is this is this movie smarter than I thought it was gonna be? It's like it's just a kooky little 80s movie. I mean, it is, but it's also dark and intelligent. It's wild.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Yeah. No, I know I did not notice the colors. I was just so enamored by all this suicide. Yeah, it was just like, oh. And the And the uncaring adults.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

I know, it's wild. But the mother the mother has like a great quote. The quote of, it's like, you know, usually when people uh high teenagers are complaining about not um being seen as human beings, it's when they're being seen as human beings. And it's like, shit, that's untrue.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

That's true. They don't want to be human because they don't they feel like they're different.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Above, they're above.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Yeah. Did did you watch this in high school?

SPEAKER_03 7:12

No, I didn't watch it totally over.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Do you think it would have changed your uh, I don't know, your your mindset in high school, just being like, maybe I should just be like, fuck it. Not like obviously unaliving people, but um, you know, just like maybe I'm taking this too serious and I just need to I don't know. I just felt like this would have had an impact on me if I saw it while I was in high school and being like, fuck clicks. I can just talk to whoever I want. It wouldn't have because I'm too shy of a person back then. But uh just think I was like, really wish I watched this in high school growing up.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

Well, no, I watched Mean Girls, which was I felt like very similar. Yeah. Um without all the death. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

That's the problem. Whenever I watch Mean Girls, I'm like, where's all the suicide?

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Yeah, by that time, Christian Slater was not the devil anymore.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah. Uh I was never like the biggest Christian Slater fan fan. This is actually my next question. It's like, are you big into Slater and Ryder? I loved 100 Ryder. Obviously, she was in a bunch of movies that I loved growing up. But Slater, I never really watched a lot of his stuff. And after watching this, I was like, should I watch more Christian Slater movies? Man, this gave me a lot of respect for 100 Ryder. Greetings and salutations.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Yeah, she crushes. Yeah, she kicked ass. But no, I had always loved Christian Slater from the Robin Hood Prince of Thieves movie. Yeah. And uh I thought he was really great in that. And I I can't remember which came first, this this chicken or that egg.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

But um man, I he's I never was like a huge fan of it. He was always a good staple in a movie whenever you see him.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Like the the role I know him the best in is whenever Saber takes over Dunder Mifflin in the office. And then he and they do like an inch like a welcome to Sabre video like videotape that they watch, and he's the narrator of it. And he's like, Whoa, it's Christian Slayer.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Yeah, he's playing Christian Slayer.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

And I was like, I don't remember that. I was like, man, I guess is this like what he's most known for? I know it's not because I know he's in like true romance, which is a really good movie. I haven't seen it yet, but um but yeah, I was just like, yeah, that's the big role I know him from is he's in one episode where they're watching him on a TV. Um yeah, when I'm gonna write her, I feel like this is the she has such a manic but yet calming vibe.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

I don't know how No, I was really upset with her character because she's always just looking the other way, yeah, constantly, and taking part in crime. Yeah. And I'm like, I love you, but like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

It's also a coming-of-age story. She had to realize suicide is bad.

unknown 9:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Well, she's like, I guess, like after the first time you uh your boyfriend accidentally uh accidentally makes you kill somebody, you're kind of like, well, I'm kind of stuck, aren't I? I'm kind of roped into something I can't get myself out of. Sunk cost. You know, she just she's she, you know, sometimes in high school you just become a rebel, you know, and sometimes for people that's just not listening to your parents.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Other times that's killing your best friend, murdering uh people.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Which I mean, honestly, the only people there the two people that I was like, you know what? Probably a good thing they did it too, was the two football guys. I was like, these guys are gonna rape so many girls. Yeah, they were on that track. These two gots to go like now.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

I love when he's running through the woods, he's just like focused. Yeah, and he's just got perfect form running. It sucks.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

It's doing the Tom Cruise run. Can't catch me, gay thoughts. Yeah.

Teen Movie Favorites And Sex Myths

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Um, so do you have a favorite, like uh teenage movie? Like um, you know, I guess Teenagers in High School.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

Yeah, like Ten Things I Hate About You're Super Bad, probably my faculty.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

I think that would be that movie really. I know.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

I think that might be one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Even like just I mean, there's so many because there's like Halloween and stuff like that. But I think mine might actually be super bad. When I think of like a perfect, it also helps that it kind of came out when I was in high school. So, you know, it's kind of the perfect high school.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

I was right out of high school when that came out, I think.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Even though I was never obsessed with losing my virginity at any point in my life.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

Yeah, it wasn't really easy.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Which is a problem with most of the movies. I was like, I mean, like even when I was growing up, there was movies about high schoolers gotta lose their virginity. But I'm like lose it. Get that shit out of here.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

I never felt like I better hurry.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

No, I um I was super religious, so like that I'm and then that's one of the reasons I'm really angry at religion, is that I never because you could have gone to poundtown already. I could have went to poundtown so many times, but I never bought a ticket.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

It is everyone told me it's where you're probably going to hell. Uh it's a straight to hell card and my own.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

And then you have sex, and then you're like, really? This is gonna be what sends me to hell. Pretty cool. It's like this is this seems like something like everybody should be doing. We should be teaching everybody how to use protection and have sex. Like seems like a way better way.

SPEAKER_03 12:32

Even when I went to college, when I went to college and I was still a stupid virgin nerd. One of we had this presentation because I went to a Christian goddamn college.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

But this guy was like 40%, he was like 50% of condoms break or don't work every time. That that number is way off.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

I know and then that's the same. On the balls, they literally say it's percentage.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

Wow. That's uh that's wild. Uh and then right after that, we had a presentation about no, and I'm serious about this. They sold t-shirts, no wanger yankin'. It had a WY with a no symbol. Yeah, you know, like the circle of the line through it. Yeah, it's like Ghostbusters. Yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

And it that was I didn't go, I didn't buy a t-shirt. Yeah, I mean, I that would be the most insane thing you could ever buy. Yeah, I walk over with no wanger yankin' t-shirt.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

Although, to be fair, I never saw anyone wearing in that shirt.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

If you should have bought one, because that'd be a hilarious shirt to wear now. Right. You just like go to like our jobs picnic in the UK with a no Wanger Yankin shirt.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Well, but like looking at it not knowing what it means, it just says like no Wyoming. You know? Yeah. Like we hate Wyoming. Yeah. No, Wyoming is a beautiful state. So anti-Wyoming. It's amazing. I've never been there. Continental divide is there. Uh Yellowstone is there.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Man, I can't I always think that Yellowstone is not in Wyoming. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

Part of it is. Part of it's in Idaho, part of it's in Wyoming. That's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I was like, I thought it was like in Montana.

SPEAKER_03 14:17

It's a you know, it's a big space. It's bit it's everywhere. It's basically all of Ted Turner's land. Yellowstone is everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Didn't he recently pass?

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Yeah, like a couple days ago.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Yeah. Yeah. He made uh Turner Classic movies. World Championship Wrestling, also. WCW. Really? Yeah. Because he was a part it was like on TNT and TBS, and that was his that he he started those companies. Yeah. He was so rich and now he's so dead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

How how old did he live to be? I think he was like 80, he was in his 80s, 85, 87.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Money really helps people live forever. It does. It's like that South Park episode.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Yes, where you just grind it up and yeah, it's like, how does Magic Johnson still alive?

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Oh, it's money. It really feels like that might be an actual true statement.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

You know, I thought about that when I saw there's a um Housewives series going on right now where the Charles Sparkley's wife is in it. And I was like, wait, did he have a disease? I mean, probably at you know at some point.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

I mean, everybody does a I mean you're a basketball player or a super famous basketball player back in the day or famous person.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

Yeah, we need to start wiping down those basketballs. Yeah. It's all bouncing around. You're all just passing them around, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Wanger yanking them.

Wild Behind The Scenes Facts

SPEAKER_01 15:37

All right, let's get into some facts. So, Shannon Doherty, know her that well? She's in a bunch of movies. Um, but I know her most from Fear Factor. Nice. She was a host for a while on that. Um, but she was.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

Remember when I was in Heathers?

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Do you remember when I was in Heather?

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Well known at Fear Factors.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Are you scared? Yeah, you're on Fear Factor. Love that. Not Fear Factor, Scare Tactics. Uh Scare Tactics, my bad. Um love scare tactics as a kid. It was the best show. They brought it back recently, and it's just like I thought it was good. It's just it was better than I remember. Don't remember it at all. So uh Shannon Doherty had problems saying the profanity is in the script because of her conservative upbringing. She couldn't keep a straight face. As a result, she smirks when she says, Veronica, why are you pulling my dick? And she goes, Hey, it wasn't too long until I was like that, until I started a podcast. You can literally see me starting to cuss through the podcast. It's fun.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

I told my daughter the other day that she was like, she goes, So can we say whatever we want at home? My smile, my seven-year-old. I said, Yes, you can say what when you're at home, you can say whatever you want. And she goes, and just this look of the world opening up to her, just was like the possibilities.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

It's just like she immediately says every single cuss word in the world.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

She was like, So can I say fuck? I was like, you can.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

And she was like, you know, I'm sure she won't get in trouble later on in what she met. I just thought at school, but here, yeah. Yeah, I mean that makes sense. Do whatever you want at school. All right, at home, right? Um, so uh the same week when Ona Ryder received the script, a student from her high school committed suicide, which only inspired her to do the film. Fuck. Yeah. I don't know if uh because you know, I didn't go to high school in the 80s, so I have no idea if there was a lot more back then. Uh there wasn't as much, you know, uh from what I heard. I didn't watch the news, so I have no idea how many people were committing suicide back then.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Not a lot of school shootings either.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Yeah. Trying to think if that's a true statement. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna say there's not a lot. At my high school, I remember someone just uh brought a gun to school and just kept it in their locker. Uh he only got caught because I guess he like brought it out and say, hey, look what I have. Check out my and then he was no longer at our school. Wow. Because he, you know, brought a gun to it. He wasn't gonna use it at school, but he brought one for some reason. Guns are fucking cool. I'm just like, did you just think this would be a cool thing to show people to show and tell?

SPEAKER_03 18:25

Hell yeah, dude. These are my hollow points. It was funny because like he definitely hand out targets to everyone.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

He definitely seemed like somebody that's like, ah, this guy would definitely probably have like guns. But you know, I always I guess because he had a similar last name than me, and like so did like two of his friends. So I always like in classes that I had with him, I'd sit near them a lot. And you know, they're always talking about like selling like pills and stuff like that. That's how I learned so Billy heroin, like oxy and things like that. They were like, Yeah, I got some if y'all need some. And I was like, Oh, no, I'm good. I'm not a part of this group, I'm just constantly with you guys because of our names. Good old Tennessee. Um, and then I was just like, I don't think he'd ever actually shoot anybody with it, but he had one.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Um Yeah, you know the the first day I'm when I moved to Sparta, yeah, the first day of school, I was this guy came up to me. He's like, hey, you see that girl over there? She'll have sex with you for $20. I was like, man, I don't have any money. You just look at her, it's like, she really could help her prices. She could have.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

She really should have. It's like I gotta save my lunch money all week because.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

I need to talk to her just about business practice.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Yeah. Can I uh hi, my name's Gator, and uh I'd like to help you out a little bit. I did some walking around.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

How about we triple your prices and uh I get half and you get half. You make $10 extra dollars and uh I get $30. If only we have the time machine from Napoleon Dynamite. If only you, if the other guys came out a little bit earlier in your life. And I think that we're just not teaching women about self-morth, you know. Yeah, it's like $20. Come on, man. Podcast cancelled. Local podcasters, Jesse and Jason, support prostitution in high school.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

I know, and I'm not condoning it. I'm just saying that she could have done better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

So, uh, to change the subject, at one point, Shannon Doherty confronted a married crew member, crew member who was having an affair with an underage, underage extra. According to Doherty, this was the first time anyone had ever called her a bitch. What? Yeah. Well, that's good. Surely someone's called her that before. No, no. That's what your reaction seemed like for a second. I mean, no, but a way to go, Shannon Doherty. I can't remember the first time I was called a bitch. Probably younger than that. I don't know. Uh, it's definitely probably later in life that was called a bitch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Right? Yeah, it has to be.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Pretty sure my brother did. Probably called myself a bitch before anybody ever called me a bitch. Every day you look in the mirror. It's like you're a bitch. Good morning. Spit at the mirror mirror in the college parties basketball. Smile. Um look at the It's like spit on me. So Christian Slater has stated that his performance was heavily inspired by Jack Nicholson. No doy. Uh he claims that he wrote a letter to Nicholson asking him to watch the film, but did not receive an answer. Oh, that's too bad. But I can totally like while watching it, it was one of those things is like this guy, he he seems like he's doing like another actor. And then I read the notes and like, yeah, that was Jack Nicholson for sure. Wow. Jack Nicholson kind of talks like this. Greetings and salutations.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

Yeah, it really is. But he did he base his whole life on him around him?

SPEAKER_01 21:57

I mean, it's he's such he's such a good actor. I mean, even I mean, it got to the point where Leo started looking like him after doing one movie with him.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

One of my favorite line from Christian Slater is from the Robin Hood movie, is when Robin Hood gets launched over a wall with a catapult.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

And he goes, fuck me, he cleared it. I just can't.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

I've never seen it. I did not know that was a part of it. That's wild. If it's ever if it's on something, why'd they do that after uh Devil in a Blue Dress? Um, so Tori Spelling, who had seen the film, uh recommended Shannon Doherty to her father, Aaron Spelling, for one of the lead roles in his new show about high school students called Beverly Hills 90210.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

No, so that's kind of a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

That's for people who've watched that show. I know a lot of people love that show.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

I never watched it. I never watched it either.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Um so Brad Pitt auditioned for the role of JD. He was rejected because he was considered too nice for the role. Pitt would later start with Christian Slater in Interview with a vampire Andrew romance.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

It's so funny. Christian Slater was in Interview with a vampire?

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Yes. I haven't seen it in a while, so do not ask me which character. Yeah, that movie's fun. We should do that. Maybe that'd be a good like, you know, September, October movie. We have to keep that in mind. Um I just love that Brad Pitts too nice. Yeah. And then he likes, though.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

He's got such a nice face.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Then he did uh I guess he got rid of that aspect after he did Fight Club when he was punching people. Yeah. It's like, oh.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

And he showed his penis.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Now he likes to eat and punch people. Now we can put him in mini roles. Um so JD is named after Winona Ry writer's favorite author, JD Salinger. With the character's rebellious attitude and loner persona, the name is obviously a nod to James Dean, also. Um, never read JD Salinger, but this is obviously they wanted to get um that actually might be a quote later, but they wanted to um I guess use his book Catchin' the Rye, I think. Catcher in the Rye. Yeah, I think they wanted to use that instead of Moby Dick. Because I guess it has very rebellious intimacies in that.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Yeah, Moby Dick's a weird choice.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Eskimo. Like they're gonna be so confused when they see Eskimo underlined in.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

I was, for sure. Like call me Ishmael, that's the only thing. I know it was about a whale. Yeah. I've seen movies. There's an albatross.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah. Uh it's just about fighting that great whale, you know. So uh according to Winona Ryder in a Harper's bizarre YouTube interview, Heather's has become a cult classic, but it did not do well originally, despite getting amazing reviews. In fact, she remembers going with Christian Slater around the country and seeing protests at movie theaters due to the dark subject matter.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's how you know you're making a good movie. Nobody protests movies anymore, do they? Not really.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

People, I mean, they usually just like go on Facebook now. No one's no one really Yeah, because then you have to like leave the house. Yeah, so now everybody just kind of protests everything just through Facebook and social media. Um, so quoted from the American Film Institute, according to the March 23rd, 1989 Los Angeles Time, um, Daniel Waters based the script on the high school experience of his sister and her friends, as well as a chapter about the cultivation of female identity in Simon De Bevor's 1949 book, The Second Sex. He also told uh Los Angeles Angeles Time that he had grown tired of Hollywood's romanticization of suicide, and that he believed most people would actually harbor an ultimate fantasy of attending their own funeral. I actually had that fantasy. Not suicide, but like attending my own funeral. Yeah, that's crazy. Just watching everybody be like really sad. That's that emo part of me that I had in high school. Still there, still thinking about it. Um, Winona writer claims that she has many favorite moments from the film. The one that usually comes to mind is when she is walking up the hill after seeing JD in the cow tipping scene in the background just barely visible. Heather McNamara is being date-raped by one of the jocks. Ryder says the scene is so subversive and dark that once you notice it, you can't stop thinking about it. And that was very true. Yeah, exactly. It changed the entire tone about which I mean, there was like shitty things that happened before, like, you know, uh Heather Chandler having like her boyfriend be like, Come on, give me a blowjob, give me a shit. And then she like spits in the mirror because she's like, fuck. Um, and there's this later, so it's like very rapey beforehand. But that was like the that was the one where I was like, I was like, shit, man, they're just like so nonchalant about it that it's kind of eerie. And then I'm because then it makes you think, shit, I mean, like in my high school when I went to high school, how many times has this happened to a girl? And then it's just like I was like, I gotta rewatch this movie. I gotta start from the beginning and start doing this again. Because it was uh, I don't know, just like really changed the perspective of how I was looking at the movie and just honestly how I was that was the point of start over. Yeah, that and that was how I was like, even kind of this perspective, like, should I think about how high school was again? It was kind of like it's just very effective, very effective scene and movie. And I get why Wynner says it's one of her favorite scenes. Yeah, not my favorite scene, because it makes me feel icky and bad.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Yeah, she was definitely not a girl's guy.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

I I can definitely tell, like, she's like, Yeah, fucking boys suck. Yeah, see this shit that we're not paying attention to that happens all the time. Yeah, we only care whenever it's like a suicide situation or something. Cover them both in cow shit.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

And they were and and they just went along.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

And then the guy's like, ah, I want to have sex now. It's like, what is going on?

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Maybe it was the immense strength that it would take to push over a cow, because that just doesn't happen. Yeah. Like cow tipping is a myth. Like you just can't Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

They don't fall asleep standing up, do they? They guys see them all the time sleeping on the ground. Yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

So um the original screenplay had a different ending in which Veronica kills JD by shooting him and then straps the bomb, a much larger and more complicated piece of equipment described as being a cylindrical, a cylinder.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Like a pie bomb.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah. It was as large as a television set. Well, those are huge. She's gonna um attach it to herself, blowing up as JD does the in the final ending. What is placed in the final ending as JD's boiler room speech about Imagine I Blew Up the School, Imagine I Blew Up All the Schools, is contained in a suicide note found in Veronica's Locker by Heather McNamara and Betty Flint. Then the movie ends with an eerie prom sequence set in heaven, tying into JD's assertion that the only place everyone will truly get along is in heaven. The prom begins with students dancing with their social cliques, then switching partners in odd pairings like Metalheads dancing with Heathers and one the murder jocks getting his prom picture taken with a tipped cow, the punch being served. The punch being served as drain cleaner used in the first murder scene, and Dump Truck is singing on stage as the entertainment for the evening. This was intended to be shot, but the studio brought thought it was too dark for the target teenage crowd and opted for a lighter ending. It's like, hey, you already it was already dark. Let's just finish it. I'm not gonna lie, that might have been a little too much.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

Yeah, that would have been a little crazy.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

It would have maybe been a little too goofy. I didn't think that was dark. When I read that for the first time, I was like, that's not dark, that's silly.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

That is that would have taken away from some of the stuff I felt like. Yeah, I think so too.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Oh, I really want to see it. I really want to see it just in case it has like a crowd on it, just in case it was perfect and it made the movie better. I would still like it to be an option that was out there. Just film it anyways. Yeah, deleted scenes. That would have been hilarious to watch. Or maybe it would have been the best ending ever. I don't know. I think the cow would have made it too far. No, no, no. That would have been the one thing that was too far.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Just like, why we got a cow in heaven? That cow died too. JD killed that cow.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Sorry, hamburgers. Um, so last fact. Writer Daniel Waters said in an interview, I'd come up with this crazy cockamaney Heathers 2, where Veronica becomes a page for a senator named Heather, played by Meryl Streep. The ending is her assassinating the president and getting away with it. And it's a good thing. Winona writer has heavily supported the idea for a sequel, but as 2024, nothing has come out of it.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

I thought you were gonna say she's heavily supported assassinating the president. If the president was a tremor monster, yeah. Which is not far off.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

You know, and I already see like the reason that um I could already see like um because you know it says assassinating the president, getting away with it, and it's a good thing. I can already have ideas what they would probably use. Ma'am. You know, pedophilia.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

I think it's time for Heathers 2. Yeah. We're we're ready.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Yeah. I would it would probably be bad, but I'm in. You know, we get all these sequels to things that don't deserve sequels, so let's let's let's do a heather's two. It doesn't deserve it, might as well let's let's get it though. More one owner rider the better. Put Mel Streep in that shit. Mel Streep's amazing. Yeah. All right. Well, that's all the facts I had. That was a lot of facts. I did a little bit of too many. There's a lot less in Devil in a Blue Dress. Um, so yeah, we're before we get into

Fan Mail Plug And Side Quests

SPEAKER_01 31:39

the movie. Uh after we finish the plot, we usually talk about the point of the movie. And if you have any suggestions about what the point of the film is, you can leave us some fan mail. There's a link in the description. You can just click it and text us from your phone. And then at the bottom we have we recommend mailbag at gmail.com in which you can send us some fan mail that way. Um Mark, uh I guess he listened to our Mortal Kombat episode, and uh there I have this whole speech because you weren't on that episode, and I had this whole thing, he's like so it was like in our 28 days later, he commented um again, but YouTube never showed me the comment. It never gave me the notification. And I literally have to go through the filters and filter and set it to a certain filter to where I could see his comment. Just set it to Mark. Yeah, the Mark filter. Would you like that? Like, yes, please. Um, but yeah, then he like in the last episode, he said he gave me like four movies to do. One of them was uh shit, I'm blanking on it. Uh the Brad Pitt movie where he's like he punches one guy one time. Snatch! Snatch! He he didn't know we did that yet. Um we already did that. And there was a like a bad good football or like sports movie, but I was like, I don't really know if I want to do a bad good movie. But he said Heather is in Devil in Blue Dress, and that's why we're doing it. See, if you come leave us comments and say things, we're we uh you know don't have that many fans, so we'll most likely respond to you pretty easily and do whatever movie you say. Hell yeah. Thank you so much. Um I feel like I'm talking fast. Yeah, it's okay. We need it. I feel like I always do though, so I have no chill.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

It's all right.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

It's actually a funny thing that like back in high school, it was like a reason I didn't like to talk to people is because I did talk to talk so fast. Yeah, and usually I'd end up saying something stupid. Yeah, me too. That doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Um, I still do that to people, I especially when I feel uncomfortable and I don't really know what to talk.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Any party. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

I don't know what to say. I always end up saying something, then like walk away. I'm like, I completely screwed up that sentence.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

I sound like an idiot. Yeah, my first go-to is just to sabotage the the relationships, last conversation.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Then I don't have to talk anymore, and I can go sit outside on the porch.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Like someone like keeps talking to you, and it's like, yeah, you ever had human flesh?

SPEAKER_00 33:57

It's like, oh, I think that ended the conversation. See you later.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

At the last Halloween party I went to, I brought up the Jim Jones tapes. And they did not want to talk about it. And I was like, afterwards, they're like, hey Jason, what was going on? I was like, he didn't want to talk about the Jim Jones death tapes. I'm like, what the hell, man?

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Yeah, and I didn't nobody they're like, I thought everybody thought that was interesting. Does anyone else listen to them? I guess um I don't know. I know because if someone came up to me and was like, you know Jim Jones, I'd be like, I absolutely do know Jim Jones. Well, should we talk about the tapes?

SPEAKER_03 34:30

That is not where it started. I think he was just like, hey, what's uh what's your deal? And I was like, you know what? Jim Jones death tapes. Let's get into it. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Well, I guess it just depends. It just depends who you're meeting. Because if that was the first time we met and you brought that up, I'd be like, this is gonna be a good night.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

You're right.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Let's go out and talk on the porch about it.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Maybe I just need to meet more people. Yeah, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

That's true. Just hold hold up a sign. Anyone want to talk about Jim Jones?

SPEAKER_03 35:07

There's so many kids there that want to know.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Dude, that tape, like as he's trying to talk everybody into drinking to flavor aid.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

Yeah. And he's like, he's like, just help your kids. Just and it's just getting quieter and quieter and quieter. You're just like, wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Yeah, guys, if you if you want to feel real good, you should find a true crime uh podcast that talks about it. It's great. They usually should uh uh you know let you listen to the whole thing. And it's uh it is one of the most fascinating sad things in your life. Yeah, especially since there's like people like there's because there's that one girl that's like, I don't think we really actually have to do this. It's like, are we sure we should do this? Like the whole time. Like, sit down, just take your drinks. Just drink it up. I can't have no idea how to do his voice. Tangents.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

We did it first, and then you don't have to try it again.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Yeah. All right. That's sure. Never again. You actually wouldn't have to try anything ever again.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

That's what I tell my kids when they didn't when we eat something that they don't like. I'm gonna just take one bite. If you don't like it, you don't have to eat it.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah. And you'll probably like it when you get older. That's how everything that I didn't like, I like now. Because I hated eggs. I love eggs now.

unknown 36:30

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

All right. Shell and all. Tangents. Heather.

The Heathers Run The School

SPEAKER_01 36:35

1989. For this. Alright. Uh so the movie starts with some posh ass Heathers uh smashing roses, playing croquet where they really hate these bitches.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Entitled fucking bitches.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

They're playing croquet where they are trying to hit Veronica, who's comically in the ground with her head out. Um, the leader is Heather, Heather Chandler, who always wears red, at least for a little while. Then Heather Duke, she dresses in green for a little while. And then Heather McNamara, who sports yellow. Veronica is usually in blue. Um, that was one of the things that when I redid my notes, I didn't have in there. And then I was like, I have to pinpoint this now.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

Yeah, what the fuck? Okay, first of all, my neighbor is gonna build a croquet feel in their yard, and they're like, you need to come over. And I'm like, sweet, we're on it.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

I will also call it a play.

SPEAKER_03 37:24

Yeah, that'd be cool. But I immediately thought this was a dream because there's a human buried in the ground with her head sticking out. It is a dream.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Yeah. I mean, she didn't she didn't really get buried.

SPEAKER_03 37:36

Okay, continue.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

So after Veronica gets hit, she looks at the camera and says, Dear Diary. Um, and then it goes to her. Dear Diary. Heather told me she teaches people real life. She said, real life sucks. Sucks losers drive. You want to fuck with the eagles? You have to learn to fly. I said, so you teach people how to spread their wings and fly? She said, Yes. I said, you're beautiful. Because we kind of see this as she's like going through like the high schools of high school. I don't know. But yeah, I think it's that's like a dream sequence. Yeah, I must have just man. I don't know. I don't know how at first I also thought it was real, Jason. So don't worry.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

I mean, judging could just by judging what uh all the other shit that happens, like yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Yeah, I mean it definitely feels like a dark fantasy of a movie, which it I guess technically it kind of is. Um so two of the underlying Heathers, uh Duke and McNamara, tells Veronica Heather wants to talk to her. The Heathers use Veronica to play pranks on other students and hurt their feelings and sentiments. The Heathers ask Veronica to write notes in other students' handwriting and use those notes to spread nasty rumors in school to destroy other students' reputations. In this instance, Veronica is made to write a note from Jock Kurt, um, Kurt, to a uh bigger girl named Martha expressing his love for her. Martha approaches Kurt in the lunchroom and is laughed at by the entire football team. This whole scene is wild. Just in general. Like, even while they're doing the notes, it's like because there's gonna be polls later. Everybody seems to always be staring at each other at some point. Then you got Mr. Greetings and salutations in the corner, just like staring at Veronica. Sitting with the guy that's sleeping, and then you're immediately feeling bad for Martha, even though she hadn't even gotten laughed at yet. And then you're just like, uh I hate this school immediately.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

I know it's so such a small school, and like it reminded me of the girl from Donnie Darko.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yeah. Oh yeah. Or if they took it. Shut up.

unknown 39:39

Shut up.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

So while this is happening, Heather uh Chandler goes around taking a poll asking the question if someone gave you a bunch of money right before aliens attacked, what would you do? What the fuck? What are we talking about? It's like, what did people do polls back in the day?

SPEAKER_03 39:58

I love polls.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Was it like in 1989, like a very poll-heavy lunchrooms?

SPEAKER_03 40:03

Maybe it was an electioneer.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Must have been. Um, all this because they are going to Remington University Party and want to brush up on conversation skills. Hey, good thinking.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

These are going to be some professional ladies.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Yeah, too bad. They don't make it. But I mean, it's like, that's the question that is it. Do you think that's going to be asked in high school in college? It's a great question, but it's like, is that are you you just have that question loaded up for the college party at the end?

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Yeah, I don't know what it has to do with college, but like maybe they thought the college guys are into aliens, which yes, they are.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Yeah. Um and then while this is happening, JD keeps locking eyes with uh Veronica and Veronica locks eyes back, and they're gonna fall in love and it's gonna be totally normal. Yes. Um, and then there's a great line from Chan uh Heather Chandler. Well, fuck me gently with a chainsaw. Do I look like Mother Teresa? If I did, I probably wouldn't mind taking the talking to the geek squad. I might have gotten along with this Heather. Yeah, I mean, she's mean, but she's funny.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

I may not have gotten along with her or liked her whole thing, but like that would have been, I would have laughed.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Can I honestly I'll be honest with you, there was somebody in high school uh that did remind me a little bit of her. Oh, wow. She fucking sucked as a human. There's no way you would have liked this person. Yeah, you're probably right. Yeah, I remember I accidentally bumped into this person, she just like elbowed, elbowed the shit out of my side. And I was like, you walked into me standing still, just about. And I was just like, oh, so mad. I was like, oh.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

Well, she was on her way to lead like the fellow Christians of America meeting.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

No, I think she probably I think she was in like like the uh what the like future business leaders of America and shit like that. Oh, I just remember I was like, because like she sat near like our lunch table that I sat at, and like she some like her little group would sometimes talk to our group, and I was like, oh, these people are pretty funny. Um, and then like the more they did that, I was like, I actually think these people are kind of douchebags. And then she did that to me, and I was like, Hope you don't get in a car crash.

SPEAKER_03 42:17

You're like, I got touched today.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

No, but like she literally laid all her body weight into this elbow directly, like kind of like in my side and ribs. I was like, And you still got a boner. I was crazy. No, insane. I was red with rage. I was like, I've never talked to you in my life. You're just gonna hit me. I like it now. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

You just unlock something, you know.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Yeah, my internal rage that I didn't know I had.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

A broken river, dude. So after helping one of the heathers Heathers vomit, this is Heather Duke, uh, she goes to talk to JD. Greetings and salutations, Veronica.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

Oh, God.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

She asked him the poll question. He answers the most hipster way. Go to the lake with a bottle of tequila, his sacks, and Bach. And Bach? Yeah, Bach. I'm pretty sure he said Bach.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

Like Sebastian Bach? Yeah. Uh, the music.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

When I heard that, I was like, oh, why don't you just put on a top hat and a monocle, which actually is worn by somebody like that?

SPEAKER_03 43:20

That sounds fucking rad.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

And I was just like, and put on your best flannel uh flannel shirt and watch the world burn. Bring a pipe with you and everything. I was just like, wow, this is very hipster. I'm down. Um then some jocks, Ram and Kurt, try to intimidate him, but he pulls out a gun with some blanks in it. I put in my note different time. So I still left uh I still left uh this part in my notes from the first time I started watching it. I was like, what? And then I realized I was like, oh, I get it. We're doing like a weird like no one pays attention to kids in schools, and this was totally okay. Because no one died, so no one cared. That's the only way people care in this movie. You can do literally whatever you want, but as soon as a teenager dies, all of a sudden it's a tragedy. But they could be bringing guns to school and shooting blanks or date raping each other. Not just a gun.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

It's like a 45, like Magnum. Yeah, it's giant.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

It's a it's a cannon. And um, so I didn't realize that like revolvers don't uh didn't think about it, but they don't like release their shells.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

Yeah, you gotta dump them out.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Yeah, and I was watching uh some true crime thing, and they're like, Yeah, we couldn't find any shell casing, so it had to be a revolver or something, and then they're like, that makes it the case a little bit harder to f um, you know, solve because of it. And I was like, I never thought everybody I didn't think about that. Use a revolver, yeah. Really, this movie really brought a true criminal. So the Heathers and Veronica play some passive aggressive croquet. Veronica talks to her parents. Oh, um If I knew the rules of croquet, I would have understood a lot about this. Because this is um this is a scene where it's like it's kind of Heather Duke and Heather Chandler kind of sizing each other up, trying to beat each other in croquet. And because, you know, Heather Duke, Shannon Doherty's character, obviously wants to be the leader of the group. And but Chandler keeps putting her in her place and stuff like that. So it's fine. Um and then uh Veronica talks to her parents about prom, um, which she has very limited interactions with her parents. She usually sits, eats one tiny piece of something, and then says, I gotta go. Yeah. Um, but the great line here is uh why do I read these stupid spy novels, Veronica? Because you're an idiot.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

No, it was because he was smoking a cigarette, her dad.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

He's like, Why do I smoke these cigarettes? It's the second time. They say it twice. Oh, my bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Um, because he's like, Why do I smoke these stupid things? Because you're an idiot.

SPEAKER_03 45:47

That's a fun relationship. I just don't know what's oh you two.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

It's just like, but at this point, and then whenever we get to the second time they do it, I'm like, what is the point of these scenes? And then I eventually figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 45:59

The way that she sees her parents, they just don't really give a shit.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

They see more as friends than actual parents.

SPEAKER_03 46:05

They're just kind of yeah, yeah, on the sidelines.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Yeah. Not paying attention to anything. Like they didn't they just watch the most passive-aggressive croquet match in the history of croquet matches.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

They're probably already drunk.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Yeah, they probably are. Well, they don't really eat anything, they eat like flatbread, and that's it, it seems like. Oh man, that sounds good. So before the party that night, Veronica runs into JD while at a store. We learn that he moved around a lot. Veronica liked his stunt at school earlier, um, which uh not a good not a good sign, Veronica. You gotta learn what red flags are. Yeah, stunt is a good word for the all your friends have red flags too. So JD's father is in destruction and construction and has money and a motor, and JD has money and a motorcycle. His mother also passed away. We'll learn later. Veronica says she hates her friends. And he's um JD's like, I don't like them either. Um, and then uh here's a little line. There are people I work with, and our job is being popular and shit. And then JD, maybe it's time to take a vacation. Yeah, fuck yeah, man. Um He's got a point. Yeah, and this is something that I also think is very important. Um, all these people are rich. Yeah, all our main characters are rich as fuck. Yeah. And I was just like, oh, that also probably plays into some stuff here. For not caring about anything, yeah. Yeah, and like why they get so much attention when tragedy happens to them versus Martha, who tries to do the same thing, and you know, nobody gives a shit about her. Yeah. It's like so Veronica later attends a frat party of Remington University with Chandler, but refuses to have sex with one of the uh other men members after Chandler had already given one of them a blowjob and ends up vomiting on Chandler. Um, but also like after, so the guy that Chandler gives a blowjob to, she's like, I don't want to. And he's like, Come on, just real quick. You know, real shitty guys. I just can't control myself. And then obviously she doesn't want to do it. And then afterwards she goes and like is washing out her mouth and it like spits all over the mirror. She's like, fuck. Um it's like the shit I have to do to stay popular. Uh-oh, which you don't have to do that. Just don't hang out with those people. Yeah. Um, and then so Veronica doesn't do it, even though because the guy's like super rape, it's like, I don't what did he say? Because she's kind of like saying like a feminist um like speech, and then she or she's saying something, and then he's like, I don't want to hear from Martin Luther King. I just want you to get on top of this, or something like that. It was something like that. Malcolm X, maybe, and then she just like walks out of there. Um and then uh Chandler starts Heather Chandler starts like kind of berating her, and then she's like, I don't feel good, I want to go home, and then throws up. And in retaliation, Heather Chandler vows to destroy her reputation. It says that Veronica was nothing before she met the Heathers and would go back to being a nobody.

SPEAKER_03 48:53

She threatens to tell everyone about her throwing up. Yeah. How about I'd be like, Yeah, that happens.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

Yeah, but you suck that dude's dick. Yeah, right. And you didn't want to. Like, there's so many bad things that are happening. Oh, it's just like, I don't know. Um, but here's some quotes. Heather Chandler, you stupid fuck, Veronica. You goddamn bitch. Heather, I brought you to Remington Party, and what's my thanks? It's on a hallway carpet. I got paid in puke. Veronica, lick it up, baby. Lick it.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

I really love such a good last time. I love that shit. And like, even the nerds, like give it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Yeah. And I just feel like in like high school back in the day, you just had to be tough. I guess. Yeah. You had to have a backbone, otherwise, everybody's gonna walk all over you. So Veronica returns home and spews her hatred for the Heathers in her diary and wishes them dead. Um, just to let everybody if for whatever reason you haven't seen this movie and you're listening to this, she wears a monocle. That's and she writes in giant letters in words. Like she says like six probably words a page at this point with how big she's writing.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

And how fast she's writing. She is so aggressively.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

It's it's very comical. See, this is not a good school. Yeah, not at all. Um uh yeah, but she she writes in her diary and wishes him dead. She feels regret that she mistreated her nerdy friends just to impress the no-good social lights. JD arrives at Veronica's house and the two have sex outside. They express to each other the their mutual hatred of Heather Chandler's uh tyranny. Tyranny? Yeah, it's like, wow, this is the best game of croquet I've ever played. Yeah. Or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

There's just mallets and balls everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

It's like I wonder if those were used in the process.

SPEAKER_03 50:48

Like zombie stripper nightmare. Did you ever see that movie? Nope. Where she shoots uh billiard balls out of her hoo-ha.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

I did not see that one. I must have just missed that one. Yeah. Was that like on like Spike TV or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was easy to miss. I think I actually I think I actually I remember hearing about that.

SPEAKER_03 51:09

The whole strip club was going absolutely nuts for all these zombie strippers. Like, this is the best thing I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

I think it was actually on Spike TV that I saw a little part of it.

SPEAKER_03 51:19

Probably was.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

I remember thinking, well, this doesn't look good.

SPEAKER_03 51:22

They put out a lot of really questionable material. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Isn't that what also like Stripperella was on?

SPEAKER_03 51:28

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm absolutely sure that is, even though I don't know. Uh I'm that had to be blank. It's like the only pro only network that would show.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

One of Stan Lee's greatest comic book characters. Striparella? Yeah, that was Stan Lee. Yeah. Um all men that grew up in the that was popular in the 60s and 70s. They're all perverts. As we know from just at our job. Um, so the next morning, Veronica and JD break into Chandler's house, where JD puts drain cleaner in a mug for Chandler, but Veronica dismisses his plan.

Drain Cleaner Death And Fake Grief

SPEAKER_01 52:05

She mixes orange juice and milk together instead as in an attempt to make her vomit and give revenge and potentially spit.

SPEAKER_03 52:11

Okay, so this scene. I was very confused. Yeah. She's like, Ha, you're silly. I'm gonna make this other gross concoction.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

And that's how I thought. I was like, oh, JD's just being a silly little boy. He's just like, oh, this is a good joke, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 52:27

Well, I didn't. I was thinking he was like definitely wanted to kill her, and then she's like, No, I'm not gonna let that happen. And then she grabs the mug, obviously that has a lid on it. Yeah. And then he's like, I'll grab the other mug as a like, cause I and then I was like, okay, maybe he thought it was a joke too at that point. Yeah, I'd like the whole time the milk orange juice.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

Yeah. I thought the whole time he was gonna just let it play out until the very last second, just to mess with everybody. That was before I knew what the movie was. And then, so yeah, Veronica approaches Chandler, apologizing for the previous night and giving her the mug as a hangover cure and peace officing. Veronic Veronica accidentally brings the wrong mug to Chandler's room. JD notices this but dismisses it. When Veronica does not hear JD, JD's like, oh hey, Veronica, never mind. He didn't really try that hard. So I still thought he's probably not gonna actually let it go through. And then JD hands Chandler the mug with drain cleaner, killing her. And I was like, he wait, he was he just what? So they're just both slightly I was like, oh, I thought this was like people accidentally get murdered and people are still calling us because I didn't know what this movie was yet. And I was like, I thought that I didn't realize what this was at this point. I was like, oh shit. Is this funny?

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Is this this is is this a good show? Is what's happening here?

SPEAKER_03 53:57

Um but hey, what what's in the fridge? Oh I got Kool-Aid, yeah, milk.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

Oh, Sonny D. I will say my biggest my biggest complaint was this was like, Veronica, you thought orange juice and milk would make somebody throw up. Would that make any?

SPEAKER_03 54:10

I mean, it does orange juice does make milk curdle, so like it could give it an upset tongue.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

Yeah, but like as soon as you take it, like I would just like take a sip and be like, no, nope, I know this is not right. Veronica's idea was way worse than no, she's like, give it the blue stuff. J Veronica's idea was bad. Uh JD's idea, way worse. Um, and then some lines, oh my god, I just killed my best friend and your worst enemy. Same difference. Um, and so they're both stunned. Um, but JD was a little surprised. He seemed to have like a surprise. Look, I don't know if he was just acting, was he kind of playing it, but I don't think he maybe his first murder, too. Yeah, I don't think he thought maybe it would kill her. I don't know. But I was just like, Why you gave her poison, dude? You're the one that literally handed her a cup of blue drink, and you're surprised.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

Uh yeah, and but then he's like, No, you need to write a suicide note.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Yeah, because like she starts to panic. JD urges her to forge a dramatic suicide note in Heather's. She's really not, she's really not panicking that much. Veronica? She was panicking a little bit. A little bit. She's like, Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. Yeah, but then he's like compared to JD's, it's like greetings and salutatious. Dead Heather. Yeah, I guess. Um, but yeah, so it's like that day, the school and community look on Heather's apparent suicide as a tragic decision made by a troubled teenager, making her even more worshipped in death than in life. Veronica and JD watch as students gush over her on the news, even the ones that didn't like her. We meet JD's father, because they're back now at their uh at JD's house. Um, they have like this weird father and son bit where JD calls his father son and the father calls him father. They're both children.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

It's very weird.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

They're very weird around each other. Veronica seems weirded out by the dad and bails because her mom is making spaghetti. And then we go to it.

SPEAKER_03 56:11

And so with oregano, which she did not say did not have any sauce on it. It didn't. It was just noodles and oregano.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

She didn't even eat the spaghetti, she just ate a piece of bread and walked off.

SPEAKER_03 56:22

She just likes to look at it.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

She just likes to look at it. It's the prettiest spaghetti. But like, I'm not gonna lie, this father creeped me the fuck out. Yeah, dude. I immediately did not like him, and it made me immediately say, JD, you you got to go. He needs a therapist. Veronica should as soon as the whole father and son bit started happening, she should have been like, This is not the relationship for me.

SPEAKER_03 56:42

Yeah. No. But she's been brought up to ignore red flags.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Yeah, yeah. I feel um, so yeah, we cut to the scene with the parents, the the prom is brought up again. She barely eats anything and leaves. And then then this is where we get the next line. God damn it, why do I smoke these? Because you're an idiot. Yes. So later, at Heather Chandler's funeral, everybody goes and prays at her dead body. One of the jocks asks, God, why you had to kill some hot snatch. Um that's what he said. Whoa. Um, Heather Duke expresses that she wanted her to die. Uh, Veronica says she technically didn't kill her in their little prayers. Um, but yeah, like Heather Duke was just like, you know, I've asked you to kill her many times, and you finally did. Now I can be the leader. Good for her. And then I think it was the jock that said, uh, why'd you have to kill Hot Snatch? His prayer was pretty funny. He's like, I'm just kidding, God. So uh Heather McNonara convinces Veronica to

Cow Tipping Turns Into Violence

SPEAKER_01 57:46

go with her. Oh, whoop. Um, went too far. Um so yeah, Heather McNonara convinces Veronica to go with her, even though Veronica says that she's dating JD. Uh, to go with her with Kurt and Ram on a double date. Veronica says she will go as long as they don't get hammered and take them to the pasture to tip over cows. Oh that night, um, the boys end up drunk and tip over cows with those newer splashes on the grass. Just immediately exactly what happens. Um, then uh Kurt passes out while Ram has uh oh well I guess essentially I I didn't change this in my notes, but I said had sex, but actually it's date rape.

SPEAKER_03 58:24

I think it's rapey. Heather Magnonera, Veronica leaves while this is happening in the background after JD came looking for plus if you know they're gonna if the the objective is to tip over a cow, like wouldn't you think that you should stand like somewhere else? I mean that's why the school system sucks. They never taught them physics or anything.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

It's also why I mean I guess the reason Heather wants to go with the jocks is because she has to do that because she's a popular person and this is what popular people do. Yeah, I guess. But it seems like to me, I'm like, this is this seems to be like an incident that happens all the time.

SPEAKER_02 59:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

So I'm like, no wonder Heather was also like the Magnumero was like, you know what, give me some pills later in the movie. It's like, yeah, I get it, girl.

SPEAKER_03 59:09

Yeah, I think that's what the their parents probably do too. Yeah, yeah. It's just take that Xenax, just deal with all the pain.

SPEAKER_01 59:17

This movie, this movie made me not want to have kids. Yeah, kids. Um, so the following day, they spread a false rumor about Veronica performing oral sex on both of them, uh, Ram and Kurt, ruining her reput reputation. Um and this scene all happens while the school newspaper, who it takes their jobs very seriously, is just trying to essentially, you know, uh sell papers by just boosting up Heather, Heather Chandler, and like essentially acting like a real newspaper and like real news where it's like there's this strategy. We have to just constantly put it all over the place in this newspaper. Hell yeah. Which is kind of what I think some of the point is in the movie. Um JD proposes that she lure them into the woods and then shoot them with non-fatal tranquilizer bullets and humiliate them by staging the scene to look like they were lovers participating in a suicide pack.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:07

Nazi bullets, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

Yeah. Yeah, Veronica, that checks out with me. These are totally safe bullets. Veronica, like, I mean, you know, we didn't have Google back then. No, so we couldn't just like Google these German bullets, are these real?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:24

Are these safe bullets?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:25

Like, not a real thing, Veronica. We'll just break the skin and not really and just tranquilize them. It's like, no, girl. If you're gonna do this, prank on them, you probably should just go ahead and kill them because they're probably gonna kill you. Yeah, these are psychos.

unknown 1:00:41

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

Elsa's just like, yeah, checks out to me, Veronica. This is totally how situations like this work. She's like, check. But she kind of, you know, she likes it. She wants revenge, she's rebelling right now. Yeah, she's like, I killed one, I can kill more. Yeah, they suck. So she really doesn't want anybody to die, but she definitely wants them to some sort of revenge on them. So Veronica gets them in the woods and asks them to strip. She's like, hey boys, all right, you two stand in these circles and strip, and then I'll join later. Um, so then JD pops out. JD sh pops out with a gun. Yes, um, shoots and kills Ram, but Veronica misses Kurt, who runs away. JD chases Kurt back towards Veronica, who realizing that the bullets are in fact lethal because they're bullets, um fatally shoots him in a panic. Oof, man, these gunshots uh brutal looking. I was like, shoots him right in the throat? Yeah, I was like, damn, they uh even if it was made it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

Even if if you would have shot him in the chest and it wouldn't have been fatal, shot him in the fucking throat. Yeah. The softest part, arguably the softest part of your body.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:52

Yeah. It's not like she knows how to aim the gun and shoot perfectly. It's her first panic.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

Baby's first gun.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

She didn't expect it to kill people. Um for some reason she didn't think bullets hurt. Um, so JD plants material next to the boys, implying that they were gay and a- And I love the the stuff that they picked out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:15

And it's like a fourth grader's idea of what a gay person would. Yeah, because it was like an uh a bottle of mineral water.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

Yeah, that that's what it was.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:26

Eyeshadow.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:27

Yeah, and then like a pornog. So still in its wrapper, by the way. All right, but yeah, so note stating the two word lovers participating in a suicide pact.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:40

Oh, so sad.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:41

Yeah. So, but there's some nearby cops, they hear the shots. JD and Veronica Bale.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:46

Maybe the dumbest cops ever.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:48

Yeah. Um just when they popped up, I was like, This is why they're on a night show. They can't be trusted. Well, first of all, it's just like, why are there cops randomly here?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:00

Just chilling.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

Um, so they find the scene and they were having a sex pack. That's honestly what I was kind of thinking. They find the scene and hear and hears a noise and chases them, but they just pretend to be making out in a car. Um, the cops are really dumb asses. That shit works, dude.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:15

I've done it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:16

Um, and then uh, but the really creepy thing, one of the cops stays by the bodies, and the one that chases him is just like, I just do teens making out in a car. The other one, they naked. He look looks over and it's like, they're teenagers. He's so basful. They're like 17 or 16. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:35

They're making owls.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:36

Um then uh one of the lines of the quarterback was buggering the linebacker. What a waste. Oh, the humanity. It's like, you know what? Actually, it would have been better if they were just gay together uh instead of day raping people. It is California. I mean, I'm pretty sure that this was like a normal thing, maybe even then. It's just like I think there's like a little bit of commentary here on like the fact that if anybody was to go and say, like, oh, Ram, you know, like date raped uh Heather McNamara, they they'd be like, ah, boys do what boys do. Oh, boys will be boys. But then, you know, oh, these two men are are gay. Oh, the humanity, you know. It's like this is why I'm glad that like before this point I went back to like, you know, yeah, uh restart and have a new perspective over the movie because uh like that probably I'd just been like, oh, this is supposed to be a bad 80s joke. But I'm like, no, I think it's actually saying a little bit more than that. So the next day, Veronica and JD wake up in the car at school. Veronica is feeling bad about killing the boys and uh burns herself with a cigar car cigarette lighter, and JD uses her burn to light the cigarette.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:45

That was wild. That shouldn't, that's not a thing. That doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:49

But it was also like the fucking coolest thing I've ever seen in my life. Yeah. It's like as much as I'm like, these people are all shitty. And that's like the point. I'm also just like, I love the style of Veronica and JD. They're like Bonnie and Clyde. Except kind of are, which I think even in this scene, she says, like, I'm not trying to do a Bonnie and Clyde thing with you. Oh, it's just like, I don't know. It definitely is doing that. Yeah. So Veronica's mad that JD tricked her into killing them. He says it doesn't matter because she wanted to do it, but didn't have the guts. Um, JD, football season is over, Veronica. Kurt and Ram had nothing left to do, nothing left to offer the school except date rapes and age jokes. True.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:32

Still bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Yep. I don't know. It's just like one of those things, you know, it's like just because it's a movie, I can say this, you know, good reasons, man. These people were gonna be bad people. Probably all the way up until they're 30, and then they'll be like, Oh shit, I was a piece of shit. I mean, I would just hate to go to the same college as them. I would just that'd be scary. Yeah, because it'd be just like, Oh god, here comes Ram and Kurt, they're either gonna kill somebody or do something.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

Car Ramathorn. Or ramrod.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:03

So at their funeral, the boys are made into martyrs against

Martyrs And Media Spin At Funerals

SPEAKER_01 1:06:06

homophobia. Kurt's dad, my son's a homosexual.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:12

The dad, my son's a homosexual, and I love him. I love my dead gay son. JD. Wonder how he'd react if his son had a limp with the had a limp wrist with a pulse. Because you know, he probably wouldn't have uh accepted him in back then. Um especially since the way that the cops react.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:30

But it was really touching whenever um they were laughing and then you see like the little sister. Yeah, like the sister look behind. She's like, oh fuck.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:38

But then at the same time, hey, your your brother was a bad person. Um but yeah, it is really and it just kind of hits Veronica where it's just like shit, like what we're doing here is wrong. These people have people that love them. Yeah. So later Veronica writes in her journal, um, Veronica, suicide gave Heather Depp, Kurt a soul, and Ram a brain. I don't know what it's given me, but I have no control over myself when I'm with JD, and we're going to are we going to prom or to hell? This movie has so many like great quotes. It's it's like I could see this being if I watch this um like in high school or junior high, like I these would be this is be something I'd be quoting all the time. Yeah, I can't believe I never heard of this. Yeah. It's crazy. And it's a big movie for a lot of people. I just was never on my radar. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so Miss Flynn. Um, so I haven't been putting in there, but like after every death, there's always like this council meeting in the school. Right. And Miss Flynn is one of them. Yeah. Like all all the main, all like the normal, I guess, like uh teachers and principals are all like, ah, well, let's just do something quick and get it over with. Versus Ms. Flynn, who's like, we really need to, you know, talk about talk this with the kids and their feelings to make sure they're all okay and they're like, ah, you damn hippie. Um then you're like, oh well, Miss Flynn, she's a little dopey, but you know, she she's got good she's got good in a heart. We will soon realize that is not true. Miss Flynn has all the kids get into the cafeteria so they can express their emotions and to feel better. She has a news station cover it because she just wants publicity about it. She just wants the people to see that she's doing all this great stuff because she's actually not that great of a person herself. JD makes light of everything, and Verona gets pissed at him. His dad comes in and shows a video of a building he blew up.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:36

With a person inside of it. Yeah. Well, that was because he was like, I locked a Vietnamese guy in the boiler room, and then he's like watching a murder. Yeah. His dad is a murderer.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:47

Well, yeah, he also already killed his.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:50

Well, he didn't purposely kill. Well, yeah, she walked into the building because he is a psychopath.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:54

Yeah, and he is not a good person in the galaxy. He's a shitty person. JD and Veronica should do something about it. Yeah, Apple don't fall for. Because he's like, didn't he like call like um it's like some older people didn't want the building teared down? He like calls them bitches or something like that. Or like was it nuns or something like that? He's not a good guy. He just wants to make his money. Um, and so his dad comes in, shows a video of a belt building he blew up. JD tells her that his mom walked into a building two minutes for it's supposed to explode. Then their song comes in, on comes on uh it's called Teenage Suicide by Big Fun. I think that was the name of it. It's not a real band.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:34

Oh, so that's the shirt that she was wearing.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:36

Yeah, and then you start seeing like throughout the film everybody wearing these Big Fun t-shirts. It's so good. It's oh, this movie is so good. JD then shoots the radio with a gun. Veronica's like, all right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:47

And it looked enough. It looked like a Flintstones radio because it was shaped like a rock.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:51

Yeah, it was so weird. Um, Veronica's like, I've had enough, and tries to leave. He grabs her and starts kissing her. She pushes him off and tells him to not talk to her anymore.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:00

And then he kisses her some more. Yeah, and it's like, she's not happy.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:04

And then it's like, I know JD wasn't like a good guy, but he's killing shitty people, so it's just like, uh, now it's just like, well, you don't mess with Nona Ryder, all right? Yeah. We protect her in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:15

She also said that she like had trouble not like turning him away.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

Like, yeah. So I feel like Yeah, it's a toxic rebellious teen relationship. Yeah. It's like we also, you know, it it's everybody looks like they're in their 20s, so it's like tough to you know, not look at it like that. But like whenever you think about it's like these are people whose hormones and testosterone are like off the charts right now and they're all making terrible decisions. I never made decisions like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:46

Yeah, I try not to make any decisions.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:48

But as a, you know, an enhanced version of like real life, you know, you can see how what they're doing here. So uh later, JD talks to Heather Duke. He is blackmailing her with a picture of Martha uh dump truck as kids. Uh he convinces Heather to become the leader of the Heathers and Populate Kiss. JD says he will give her the pictures after he asks her for a favor later. He then gives her Heather Chandler's red scrunchie. Duke now is the red Heather.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:17

Imagine someone trying to blackmail you with being friends with someone in elementary school. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:22

Be like, okay. Yeah. People wouldn't.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:25

The emotional immaturity is just off the charts.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:28

It's like, yeah, I did not know that in like 10 years from then that this would be a big deal. It's like, and it's not. That was um people, well, no, people similar thing in our next movie. People in high school were pretty weren't this cruel for me. I mean, they were cruel because high schoolers are cruel. Um but even like, you know, like the bigger people, like they weren't always like pushed away. It was mainly if you were awkward. That was the thing that got people like in which some people that didn't were unfortunate looking. I guess this is a nice way to put it. They were always usually pretty awkward, but like no one was ever just like, you're a big person, I don't like you. Right. It's like, no, that didn't really happen. Not so much. It was just mainly if you were just an awkward, weird person, they just didn't like you. Uh yeah, so Heather Duke is now Red Heather. Um, Veronica visits Chandler's locker and is sad. Duke comes up, um Heather Duke comes up looking like her and Veronica is weirded out. Later, Veronica asks Betty, an old friend, to come up and hang out with her and play croquet. Uh, they have a good time, but then the Heathers show up and Betty leaves. They're like, gosh, fucking the Heathers are here. Let's get out of here. Yeah, fuck them. Veronica's um, but yeah, and they're just kind of like, you know, they're just being the Heathers. And then Veronica's like, you guys suck. Um, so uh Veronica's parents are watching the news showing Miss Flynn's cafeteria grieving session. Veronica gets mad and says she's tired of people being you, she's tired of teenagers being used as guinea pigs or patronized like bunny rabbits. The dad never patronized a bunny rabbit. He's so disconnected from everything. I love it. It's such a funny line. And then it's just like, you guys aren't listening to your daughter at all. You guys have no idea what's happening in their lives. No. Um she says they just want to be like treated like human beings. Her mother says that teenagers complain about being human beings, usually when they are being treated like human beings. Heather Duke then comes in telling her about Martha uh Dumptruck. Dunst.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:38

Yeah, her actual name is Dunstock.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:40

Dunstock,

Martha’s Pain And A Cruel School

SPEAKER_01 1:13:41

yeah. Um, I thought I misspelled dump truck, but I was actually spelling Dunstock. Um so Martha, um, a frequent target a frequent target of bullying, pins a suicide note to her chest uh as she wants to be popular like the other dead kids and walks into traffic. She survives but is badly injured and then mocked by her peers. Woof. Because some people just can't catch a break. Yeah, because now at this point, suicide has just become a it's like, ah yeah, that's just something the popular kids do.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:10

You know, you just try to be popular by killing yourself and we failed.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:15

I remember when I wanted to be popular, I was like, I want to pair Converse. And uh it didn't do anything, but I did love Converse at that point.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:23

Um so Heather Dick just says it's another example of a loser trying to imitate the popular kids, and then Veronica slaps the fucking shit out of her. Oh, yeah. And I was like, Why'd you stop at one slap? Yeah, just get down. Uh it was so I was just like, I didn't realize like how much rage was building up towards like the Heathers. And then when she slapped him, I was like, oh yes. And then it's immediately undercut with her. Later in the room apologizing. I'm like, no, Veronica, slap her some more. She deserved it 100%. Uh just like do and then Heather says she shouldn't be so upset because Martha is a loser, and it's just like I fucking hate the Heathers. No, they suck so bad. Um, and then they start listening to a uh radio show that Heather McNonara calls um to discuss her depression. And this she like uses a fake name like Marilyn Monroe. Sweetie. And then it's like Veronica and Heather Duke are like, She knows we listen to the show. Why would she call? It's like we're gonna know it's her. So the next day, Heather Duke tells the entire school about the radio call. Magnomera sporting red for the first time attempts suicide by overdosing in the girl's bathroom. But Veronica intervenes. An oddly sweet moment with her, a he with a Heather, she calms her down. Heather, suicide is a private thing. Veronica, you're throwing your life away to become a statistic on US fucking A. Today's today that's about the last private thing I can think of. God, if you were happy every day, you'd be a game show host, not a human being. It's like um that whole line, I was just like, shit, okay. That's just essentially telling us the point of the movie. It's like people really love teenage tragedy and don't want to do anything about it, but they they love to report on it.

Overdose Attempt And JD Escalates

SPEAKER_01 1:16:15

Um, so we see JD burning the picture of Heather and Martha. He agrees to burn it because he wants to get everybody to sign a petition to get a band to play there. It's big fun, the Teenage Suicide uh song. She agrees. We get a montage of everybody signing while she basks in the sunlight in front in front of a window.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:34

It's just like she's like, I'm a perfect person just basking in the sunlight.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:38

Um then Veronica shows up. Heather spills the beans that JD asks to to get everyone to sign it. Heather thinks she Heather thinks she is jealous. Veronica tries to slap her, but she stops it. Um Veronica, Heather, why can't you just be a friend? Why do you have to be such a mega bitch, Heather? Because I can be. Veronica, why are you pulling my dick? It's just like Veronica, just like be a she's just asking someone, can you just be a human for five seconds? Nope. Because it it does suck how much you think high school is a big deal. And I think I was lucky enough just to be like, there's nothing here for me. Like, I can't wait to get out of here. But like, you know, I think I think that's kind of how everybody looked at it in the 2000s, where we're just we're kind of just over like we grew up watching movies about like pep rallies and stuff like that. Like in my class, we didn't stand up for pep rallies, we didn't do anything, we didn't cheer. We were just like, we don't want to be here versus like I guess like back in like the 70s, 80s, and 90s, like it was this high school was important for people. People peaked then, yeah. Everyone peaked, and it's like to me, I was just like, there's no way this has gotta be my peak. And it wasn't, it was college. Well, not I wouldn't even say that was my peak, but that's when I was like, oh, I can be a normal human being. Because everyone lied to you and said you are gonna do so good. Yeah, it's just like, but it's just like, no, college was I learned how to be myself a little bit more back then in college. Um, anyways, so JD comes in and starts kissing her, but she thwarts them off. She goes home, and her parents think that she might want to kill herself because JD came over saying that he is worried for her. Upset, she goes to her room and finds a Barbie doll with a big fun uh t-shirt on it hanging in her room. That night he sneaks in her room quoting Heather's Moby Dick book, and Veronica is pissed. Veronica, you're a rebel? You think you're a rebel? You're not a rebel, you're fucking psychotic. JD, you say tomato, I say tomato. Tomato, tomato.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:45

Tomato, potato.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:48

Um, then JD underlines Eskimo in her book to make it so mysterious after he mur after he eventually murders Heather.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:55

Dude. Maybe he's like, what does that mean? I'm gonna have to look that up in the dictionary later.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:00

Uh but yeah, so he's essentially bringing breaking into the room, just being like, oh yeah, marking up her.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:06

He's always breaking into her room. Like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:08

It's just such a classic 80s and 90s thing. Get rid of that ladder. It's just like Dawson's Creek where Dawson always walked into the scream. Yeah. Like that's how that it's just it was such a thing back in the day. Everybody had a huge ladder, apparently. I'm assuming that was something actually just like uh boomers did a lot, and they wrote it for all their Gen X, all their Gen X uh high school movies. Um, and then uh JD now fully unhinged, takes Veronica um out of a room and into the kitchen to grab a kitchen knife to kill Heather Duke. Veronica, that knife is filthy. JD, what do you think I'm gonna do with it? Take out her tonsils? Veronica, excuse me. I think I know Heather a little bit better than you do. If she was gonna slit her wrist, the knife would be spotless. So Verica says that she's not gonna write the note, so he can't do it. He says society loves teen tragedy, so the handwriting doesn't matter. Uses her hand to write life sucks and terrible handwriting. He says he has a marked up Moby Dick that that's all he needs. He then goes to the other room where Heather is sleeping. He locks the door so Veronica can't get in, and then we cut cut to her funeral where the pastor says Eskimo. Everybody has weird 3D glasses on. Then Dettel Heather Chandler comes in saying your funeral is better and that the afterlife is so boring. Turns out it's a dream.

unknown 1:20:28

Oh fuck.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:28

Because I was just like, I know. I was too this isn't this isn't Veronica's house. This is not the same house. And actually, that house was the same as Heather McManera's kitchen, but just done up and lit differently. Nice, yeah. Uh, because of budget reasons.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:45

Makes sense, but yeah, uh, this is such a fun cookie cutter and also like cookie cutter house, cookie cutter people.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:53

Yeah. I love this scene though. It's so unhinged, it's so fun, and it's so dark. It's just like, I'm just gonna go in and just stab this one. It's like I'm not, and I'm just gonna let it happen, I guess. How long into the scene did you realize it was a dream? Uh I would say the 3D glasses. I it was whenever I saw Heather Duke, I was like, why is she here? I was like, I don't know what's going on. Then I was like, Oh, this is obviously a dream. And then it was, and then once the funeral happened, I was like, this definitely is a dream. So Veronica says that she's not gonna write. Veronica wakes up and puts on her best monocle to write in her diary for the last time.

Bomb Plot And Final Confrontation

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

She's gonna show JD uh um, yeah, she's gonna show JD by committing suicide before he can do it for her. JD finds her and assuming she is dead, says that he loves her and was gonna ask her to reconsider before killing her.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:49

And almost lights a cigarette.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:50

Yeah, yeah. I just love it. Oh, I didn't think you'd actually do it. Oh I was gonna tell you I love you and hope you'd reconsider. And then if not, I was gonna kill you. Yeah. Um, so um, then he gives a a monologue revealing his plan to blow up the school at the pep rally and make it look like a mass suicide. Her mom comes in and then she wakes up surprising her mom. Their mom because it's like then she's like, Oh, hey mom. Oh just tie myself down. Um, and then we see JD prepping some explosives at school. Miss Flynn is surprised to see her because JD said she committed suicide. Um, she's like, we need to talk. Committing suicide is the most important decision a teenager can make. Oh man. Miss Flynn, a shitty person. Yeah. Fuck. We thought she was a good person. She's not a good person. Veronica's if you would have done it, we could have had the news card. Yes, we would have had the entire news. We'd had CNN here for. Sorry guys, you're gonna have to go back to the It's like fourth suicide CNN pops up, and Fox News pops up. Um, so Veronica searches for JD while he sets up explosions around the school. Veronica confronts JD with a gun um in the school's boiler room as he plants dynamite. He takes the gun from her and knocks her out. He preps prepares more dynamite as she wakes up. So they fight and they kiss, and then she shoots off his finger. Yeah, it's like, hell yeah. He says he says, peace before shooting him. He says his peace before shooting him. JD, the only place different social types can generally get along with each other is in heaven. I said that weird. It's like, I mean, I guess back then that wasn't the only place you could do it. If any of our media has shown us anything from around this time, it's like that was the only way people could get along if they're all dead.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:39

But there's even social hierarchies in heaven. So like that's not even true. That's true. I just I get to heaven, I'd be the janitors on the goddamn. Hey, still not that bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:52

I wonder if if people like clean off the seats.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:55

There's no toilets in heaven, so they just pee wherever they stand. It's a big job.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:00

And it's like, really, whenever it rains, it's just everybody in heaven peeing. So before being shot, JD stabbed the detonator and stopped the explosion. Veronica goes outs um side and JD follows her with a bomb strapped to his chest. He offers a personal eulogy. You got power. Power I didn't think you had. The slate is clean. JD, let's pretend I blew up the school, all the schools. Now that you're dead, what are you gonna do with your life? Hell yeah. He walks away and detonates the bomb, killing himself as Veronica watches and smokes a cigarette. Afterwards, she smiles. Hell yeah. As students and faculty rush to see what happened, Veronica walks back inside, disheveled from the explosion. She approaches Duke, takes the red scrunchies, and asserts that Duke is no longer in charge. Veronica invites Martha to spend prom night watching movies together. The end.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:52

And then she rides around there in a circle. Yeah, it is so funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:55

It's like, hell yeah, Martha fucking got jokes. Martha seems like uh a pretty dope joke. She's a good hang. Yeah, I'd say. I really I really rush through that ending. But it is pretty much just action throughout that. Yeah. It's just kind of like tension. We know he's not gonna blow up the school. She's gonna stop him, but um yeah, let's pretend I blew up the school, all the schools. Now that you're dead, what are you gonna do with your life?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:19

Some part of it made me feel like none of this was real, and like she really did die. I don't know. Or like he never existed in the first place. It's like a fight club situation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:30

She was the one doing everything else the whole time. Kinda. It seems like that would have that would have been kind of a good little twist if that was a thing. It'd be like, oh, JD was actually all your rebellio rebellious rage. Um but I mean it can still even him existing, it still has like the exact same meaning, I feel like. Yeah. It's like, oh, it's like we all have that rebellious rage. If we meet the right person, it'll come out.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:55

But if he didn't exist, that would make sense to why he wasn't immediately put in jail for bringing a gun to the school and shooting it, even though they were blank.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:04

True. If if everybody else didn't talk to him about talk about him so much, I would be like, yeah, maybe he didn't actually exist, but yeah. So that is the plot. Um, let's get into the point of the movie.

The Point Of Heathers Today

SPEAKER_01 1:26:16

Um, let's see, I did the point like a week ago. I don't know if I still agree with it. Um, but what I put a week ago was this movie is kind of like a fuck you to John Hughes movies. Um, it's putting up a mirror to society. John Hughes movies always have the same archetypes, popular kids, um, jerks, nerds, stoners, and all that. But instead of being a romantic look at teenagers and its problems, it tells the truth in a dark comedic way. Society loves teenagers and their problems, but doesn't care to fix it. Throughout the film, nobody cares that Martha is being bullied, that JD pulled a gun out in school. But as soon as some popular attractive people off themselves, then suddenly people care. But when an unpopular attractive unattractive person tries it, nobody cares and they say she is just needing attention and trying to be cool. As a society, we love teenage tragedy so we can make our insecure or insincere comments about it and how it all went wrong, but until then the teenagers' problems are just drama and something everyone goes through. Talk to your kids.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:16

No, that's a good point. Um I guess it definitely than it was then. Um thoughts and prayers, I guess. Yeah, right. It's just like all they have to offer.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:29

It doesn't seem to do anything. It doesn't writing thoughts and prayers on Facebook is nothing.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:33

Just to let you guys know. Or even if it comes from fucking Congress. Yeah. Uh it means jack shit. Yeah, because I mean it's like every school shooting is just immediate. There's no different things. There's been a hundred and thirty one shootings this year. Not all of them schools. Yeah. But mass shooting.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:50

It's just like when I think about it, it's like I never hear anybody say, Oh man, like the kid like if we're at work and there was a school shooting, right? And it's like The big topic of the day at work. You're never going to hear anybody say the names of the people that died. All it's going to be is someone's either going to be, hey, there shouldn't be guns in school. And the other one, or guns, the other people are going to say, there should be guns. And then there's like no other discussion about the tragedy. It's all just, we we just want to talk about these guns. Yeah, this is all we want to talk about. Guns star, this should be. And it's just like, we got to figure out what's wrong with everybody here, guys. We we need to before the situation came up, someone should have been looking at this person that did the shooting, and we should figure out what their problem, but we all just want to like push them to the side. It's like, ah, he's just a weirdo. Let's not talk about him. Let's talk about the politics about it. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck that. Which is kind of, you know, the movie was pretty resonant in 1989.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:47

Yeah. Um wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:49

Crazy. They nailed it.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:51

Fun movie. No, I'm sad. So we'll hop into our

Good Bad Ugly Fine Breakdown

SPEAKER_01 1:28:56

next category. The good, the bad, the ugly, the fine. It's where we discuss the good of a film, something we liked, the bad, something we didn't like. The ugly, something that didn't age well, the fine, something that did age well for the good. Slater and Ryder, baby. Yeah. They nailed it. Both so cool in this movie. Yeah, that was really cool. Even though they're weirdos. But like their style, just the way that they presented themselves. I was just like, even though like uh JD's a creepo, I was just like, man, he's got so much swagger. Charisma. Same with Winona writer, but we've you know, I've always known Winona writers at swagger and charismatic. I mean, damn, she's like the best ever in Beetlejuice. It's iconic.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:37

Yeah, hell yeah. She was amazing. No, I I thought yeah, um Christian Slater's character was so crazy. He was like a a psychopath. Almost like he's just like obviously a killer, a psychopathic killer, but like he's I don't know. It's like he can't it's just it's kind of like he represented something that he wasn't, like he that people can't be. Like he was just like their urge to the vengeance.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:09

He he's like every high schooler's bad thought.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:12

Yeah, because he always he wore all black, so I was thinking maybe he's just supposed to represent like death, or like the urge to kill or like the bad feelings.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:23

Yeah, it's like it's like that dark part in every every teenager that most likely never comes out, uh but under the worst circumstances can. I feel like yeah, I've made this joke like a lot in these past like couple weeks. I don't know, just from things we watch, you know, like in Dexter, his uh his you know killing urge is his dark passenger. Oh, right. Like I think everybody's the dark passenger. I think everybody almost kind of has like a dark passenger in them. Just some of us are more capable of not letting that come out. Right? It's like I've never you know hit anybody, and that's because I don't have that urge. I can keep my dark passenger far down. Keep him in my butt.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:10

That's where he belongs.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:13

Hey Jesse, uh do you have a dark passenger in your butt?

SPEAKER_03 1:31:16

Do you personify it as Christian Slater? Because I think I will now. Um I mean, it's a handsome choice.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:22

Yeah, I mean, uh actor, not character, yeah. So um for the bad, I got nothing. I thought um first half that I watched for the first time, I was like, I got some critiques. And then the second when I restarted it, I was like, I actually have no critiques now.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:38

There was a really funny part I thought that was kind of um overlooked, yeah. At least maybe not bad, but when the the first Heather that died. Yeah. Um, when she's in her coffin and they're all over her, looking at her body, saying things about her.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:54

You can see her chest in one scene, it's like way up. Oh second scene it's way down. Next scene, it's like way up. It's like, did they forget to put a pillow behind her back? Is she holding her breath real hard? Yeah, I think that's probably what it is. Like maybe she's like breathing. It's like up and down, up and down, up and down.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:09

I was like, She was dancing between scenes. I didn't notice that. Oh man, it's usually the shit that I'm immediately like, I see that.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:18

No, I'll just maybe I shouldn't have been looking at a dead girl's boobs, but like I did notice it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:25

She's laying there, right? Sure, dark pass dark passenger coming out under you. That was my dark passenger. From your butt to your brain. Look at the dead girl's boobs. So uh for the ugly, I actually just put the fact that I didn't watch this as a teenager. I think uh this would have been a big movie for me. I'd probably watch it a billion times since then if I saw it earlier in my life.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:47

Yeah, I think I would have really enjoyed it back then.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:49

Yeah. I would have at least been like, damn, I could have been quoting this instead of Anchorman.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:54

I would have made so many, I would have made so many friends going up greetings and salutations.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:02

Probably would have got to know girls a lot better. Because I told my wife about this movie. I was like, have you seen this? She's like, Are you fucking kidding me? Of course I've seen it. Yeah, it's definitely every girl has seen this movie. That's so true though. It is.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:14

Yeah. When I went on IMDb, it's like all like, you know, like the IMDB reviews, they're all just from the names, I assume that they're all they they all had like female names. I was like, man, this is a big like movie for a female audience. And I get it. Lead character. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it's just like, you know, kind of about the female journey through high school. Sure. Um, in a crazy way. Yeah. Um for the fine with me, I put dark satirical comedies. Mostly they aren't understood until a time after release, but they usually say something about society in a better way than most dramas do. Because it didn't make that much money. Um and it became a cold hit.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:54

Yeah. So Yeah, I think that's really interesting. Like, I I agree with you on that. Like the dark satirical stuff. It is um oh man, it's just crazy. I never saw this before. Yeah. I never even heard about it. I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:08

Thanks, Mark. Dog Mark with a C. Because he doesn't spell it with a K. That's why I keep saying Mark with a C Mark with a C.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:16

Mark Anthony?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:17

Oh, damn. That's hot.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:19

Yeah. Hey Mark, we don't know what you look like, but Jason has a crush on you. He's like, you know what? Actually, I'm not gonna follow this podcast anymore. Cool. So uh, oh yeah, I guess we should move on to double features, our next category.

Double Features To Pair With Heathers

SPEAKER_01 1:34:32

Um, what did you get for your double feature? World's greatest dad with Robin Williams. Really? Have you seen it? Yeah, like oh that was while I was in high school, I think I saw that. I don't really remember it though.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:45

It's kind of the his son commits suicide, and then he he's a teacher at the school and he tries to push his book as his son wrote it. And everyone thinks that his son was just like this great like author, and like he was so deep after he was just he was just a piece of shit. Yeah. But like same thing in with the Heathers, you know, everyone thought so much about how deep they were and passionate, but really they were just pieces of shit. So like that's what that was about.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:17

I should really go back and rewatch that. That'd be interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:20

It's a good movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:22

Um, I chose the 1999, 10 years later, jawbreakers. Nice. Uh with um shit, what's her name? Yeah, it's got Rose McGowan. Um and shit, what's her name? What's her name? Oh god, I'm blanking on her name and I don't see it here. But uh, anyways, um, yeah, she's kind of like uh three of the most popular girls at Reagan High School High accidentally killed a prom queen with a jawbreaker when kidnapping goes horribly wrong. That sounds hilarious. Yeah, and it's oh shit. I cannot believe it. It's um how do you die from a jawbreaker? Joke on it. I've only seen this once. Is it one of those really big ones? So they stuff it, it's a big one. They stuff it in her mouth when they kidnap her so she can't talk and tape her mouth, and then she dies in the back of their car. Uh spoilers for jawbreakers. Um but yeah, it's kind of like a dark, goofy comedy about high school. Um sounds great. And popularity and stuff. It's a little, it's I would say Heather's is a lot better. But I watched it once with my wife. My wife loves jawbreakers, and uh, I was just like, this movie is wacky and funny. Um but I feel like uh just the position of those two would be fun. Uh watch, and then another watch. What is her name? Um why is it not popping up on here? Judy Greer, Jesus, cool, but yeah, jawbreakers and Jason. That's the conclusion of

Next Week Tease And Wrap-Up

SPEAKER_01 1:36:46

Heathers. Yeah, thank you, Mark, for recommending this. And we'll be doing another movie from you for you next week. It's called Devil in a Blue Dress. It is a god dang banger, dude. There are so many parts in the movie where I was like, fuck yeah. Oh, when Don Cheadle enters the chat, it's just like there's so I was just like, oh my god, I love this movie. I was just like, Denzel's great. And then Don Cheetle walks in with a fascinating character, and I was like, oh my god, I love this silver tooth. And then I was like, this movie kind of gives me like center vibes. Um, and guess what? It was an inspiration for centers. Really? Yeah, cool. You can so can't wait to discuss that for you guys. You guys gotta wait a week. We're gonna be doing it in five minutes. So join us next week for Devil in a Blue Dress. Thank you, Mark, for another recommendation. Um, but yeah, this is uh leave us some fan mail. I told you how to do it earlier. Link in uh click the link in the description at the bottom. We recommend at mailbag gma we recommend mailbag at gmail.com. I'm talking too fast. Um yeah, so just leave us. Uh recommend us to people. Um obviously, some people like us. My dog Mark with a C. He's like, you know what? If y'all keep saying my name like that, I'm not gonna listen anymore. Stop. We've done it enough. Um uh I do actually absolutely love the fact that you know, like when people comment, it just it makes it feel like a little community, even though it's not a lot of people. It's like we've had like a few people comment and stuff, but it's so fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:21

Yeah, it's very, very appreciative.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:23

Um, so yeah, uh join us next week for Devil in a Blue Dress. Leave us reviews, like us, subscribe us. Um, and thank you, Joey Prosser, for our intro and outro music. You can follow him on follow him on X at Mr. Joey Prosser. Um, this has been the We Recommend Podcast. I'm Jesse. I'm Jason. Um, the opposite of greetings and salutations.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:47

Bye.