Dogma

Dogma is one of the rare religious satires that can be filthy, hilarious, and strangely sincere in the same breath, and we had a blast revisiting it with fresh eyes. We start with the real-world saga around access and ownership, why physical media still matters, and how the movie’s long disappearance shaped its cult status, then we get into what Kevin Smith is actually doing under all the jokes: pushing back on self-righteous certainty while still leaving room for faith to feel comforting.

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Music produced by Joey Prosser. X @mrjoeyprosser

Transcript

Welcome And Why Dogma Now

SPEAKER_04 0:02

Hello and welcome to the We Recommend Podcast, a movie podcast where every week we recommend a movie for you to watch and then come back here and listen to us discuss. I'm Jesse. And I'm Jason. God's in heaven, and he's always got his eyes on you. God, I'd do anything to feel that way again. Cause this week we recommend dogma. Yeah! Finally able to watch dogma anytime I want, because I can own it now, and nobody can take it away from me. Like the Weinsteins. The opening, yeah, where he's talking about physical media and stuff like that. And it's just like Kevin his movies make you think he's a weird pervert. But he's just a normal like guy. He's just like apparently he's like a real sweetheart and stuff. Glad he's not dead. Yeah, I know. It's uh I got some facts about um him and uh Linda Forentino. Nice. I don't I think I nailed that name. I think I nailed it um about them, and it all stems from his heart attack, which I don't know, it really sucks because he was I don't know if you know when he had the heart attack. Do you know? So he was I think he was doing a stand-up, and then all of a sudden he's just like, I think I'm having a heart attack. And he did have a heart attack.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

A widowman.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

So he became like a vegan and stuff and lost a shit ton of weight.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah, started exercising.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

He looks crazy because you've only seen him extremely overweight. He was a big old guy. Um, so every time I see him, I'm like, whoa, oh yeah, that's how he looks now. Forgot. Um

First Watches And What Holds Up

SPEAKER_04 1:50

is up. Yeah. So when was the first time you saw Dogma?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Uh it's probably back in the 90s. When it first came up in DVDs, uh VHS. Yeah. Yeah. So did you like it then? Yeah, I do remember liking it. How did you like it? Fall in love with Silicon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:08

Uh our girl uh the muse. Yeah. It's like so funny. I love that whole scene because it's just so playful. At first, I'm like, oh, this is stupid, classic shirt. But then you see like Jay and like Kevin, he's like, eh, and they're fighting over who he gives her the next dollar. And the way he just like brings out the dollar, and he's like bobbing his head, and then like how playful Selma Hayek is. It's just like, this is this shit would just be like a dumb, scummy scene, but it's like so playful, and it it's for something that doesn't feel like an innocent scene, it's it feels like a very innocent scene. It's weird. It's like that's kind of this whole movie. It never really feels mean to anything, except for maybe demons and stuff. But outside of that, it seems like very sweet and kind-hearted to like even if it's critiquing like Christianity and Catholic uh Catholics, it still feels like there's love for it at the same time, which I thought it's a very weird balance that I feel like this movie does successfully. Yeah, interesting. I don't know if how that if if you feel that way about it, but that's kind of how I felt.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

I think they're means of the right people, like all the board members of movies. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like I know it all.

SPEAKER_04 3:23

Except for the one lady, even though she didn't say bless you. And that's such a funny scene because he I re-watching it for the first time uh maybe like a week ago or so. And then when he sneezes, and then he just like stops and looks around, I'm like, what is this bit? Like it's not that and then you didn't say God bless you. I was like, oh and I was like, I don't think that's a mortal sin, old Loki.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Um Yeah, why did why did they do the mismatch mishmash of like l like lore like that?

SPEAKER_04 3:55

So I know like it's it's gotta be because he's a he's a superhero boy, I'm assuming. Because yeah, Azrael is the god uh or the angel of death, not Loki. And it was Azreel, I think, that was really they should have like switched them almost. Because it seems like Azreel's doing more Loki shit than what uh Loki's doing, which I did find strange. I couldn't find anything when talking when talking about it. I didn't get to watch the documentary on the DVD, which apparently there is more. Yeah, just about the whole thing. From what I heard. Um so watching it then, watching it now, what'd you think of it now? Like it's more.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Yeah, like especially is it is it too much to say that maybe there was too many gross sex jokes?

SPEAKER_04 4:43

You know, I actually watching it the first time I felt the same way, but then watching it for the notes, I was like, it's really not, it's all just Jay.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

It's just Jay, which I absolutely love Jay. He's somehow like a more charismatic. They're like be with some butthead, just a little dumber in some ways.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

Yeah, well, it's just it I and I would like to know why he made you know um Jay and Silent Bob. Was it like the idea of the character is it's like, man, every time I'm around Jay, all he does is talk. And I feel like when I talk, it's too much. So he's like, I'll just be quiet and he'll do it, he'll do the talking for the two of us. Which I think is what you know, Alan Rickman at the end is like got a mouth on him this sweat. And then I was like, all right, that joke hits. That joke hits. It all built up to this. Yeah, it's definitely very uh he's a very rapey guy, but then he's also like he's also like super respectful. He's also pro choice and just like respects women at the same time, but he's got that shitty, like uh filthy teenage mind at the same time. I don't know. What do you think snoogans means?

SPEAKER_00 5:57

I don't know. Mean either snow. Or snooch the nooch.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Snoochie boochists. It's like I don't know what any of it means. Um, so I know you used to go to

Church Backgrounds And Faith Stories

SPEAKER_04 6:08

church.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Like, what type of a church was it, like Catholic or with the many different ones. Um mostly Protestant and some Mormon for a while. And then so like uh had a dowsing yeah, yeah, that was like five times.

SPEAKER_04 6:24

Those are like two of them that are it's like outside of Catholic Catholics. I I would those are the other two I wouldn't want to be in.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

My parents drew the line to Catholicism, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 6:37

That's just too crazy. I was Methodist, and that was uh that was actually it was just really chill. Yeah, that's what I hear. That was like the chillest one I think I ever heard of.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Yeah, that's I wish I would have been a part of that one. Probably would have been a whole lot better off. Yeah, it's uh Southern Baptist was most of it what I love. Yeah. Um like the worst one.

SPEAKER_04 6:56

Yeah. Um, so it's funny. I um after I finished doing notes yesterday on this, well, I was actually like time kind of typing out the point. You know, it's like kind of a movie about losing faith and stuff like that. No fucking joke. A car pulls up and it's two little old ladies, and they were literally like, Hey, do you go to church?

SPEAKER_00 7:20

And I was like, oh my God.

SPEAKER_04 7:24

Well, I was just like, you know, it's just because the whole film is just like signs and like regaining faith. And then I was like, Did I just get sent a Jesse? Did I get sent a sign? And I would say, yeah, if I didn't get like one to three of those every single week. Nice. I don't know what it is about our little area that seems like no one should ever be driving through, but we get so many solicitors, it's insane.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

I'll tell you what to do. It's just scatter some like used hypodermic needles around the yard. I'm sure Natalie has access to a lot of them, being, you know, where she works. Just like, you know, put one here, one there, maybe like one on the walkway. I'll just like I'm thinking about just putting spikes on our door so nobody can knock on it. And you need a mask to wear when the you see those people pull up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:13

Just need to get a gun, come out. It's like do you not see the sign? Shoot on side. No kidding. I hate people like that. Yeah. Um, so in terms of have you seen all of Kevin Smith's

Kevin Smith Favorites And Performances

SPEAKER_04 8:31

movies? Probably not all of them, but I've seen a lot of them. Um, do you what do you think is his best? I don't know. You know um I'm a big Kevin Smith guy, like ever since I was younger.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

So, Clerks and Clerks 2 is even pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

It's pretty good. That one like Chasing Amy and like uh Yeah, I've seen.

SPEAKER_04 8:55

I think this is probably I think this might be his best film in terms of like maturity. It's because I mean he obviously knows a lot about the religion. I mean, he grew up a Catholic and he's I guess he still is. I don't know if you watched the whole credits, but it was just like he put something in it. It's like I know people are gonna be mad, but I am a Catholic, and uh please, you know, buy and watch this movie because uh I gotta raise another little Catholic because he's he was uh had his daughter at that time. And like I also like the beginning of the movie where it's just like this is a work of fiction. Please don't get mad. Please, this is all fun. I am also a Catholic.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

It's crazy that he's still a Catholic.

SPEAKER_04 9:39

Yeah. Which I don't know, maybe he's not as much, I'm assuming, but uh yeah. So uh who was your favorite character in the movie?

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Maybe I always love Alan Rickman. Oh no, he really brought like a he brought a uh prestigeness to the movie. And the whole like spitting up the tequila is really funny.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

Yeah, yeah, because angels can't get allowed to drink. Showing his kin doll body is hilarious. Oh, it's so gross at the same time. I was like, can you please pull up your pants there? Um I think yeah, I think mine was probably Alan Rickman. I don't know. I think he's always gonna be my favorite character if he's just in a movie. You know what?

SPEAKER_00 10:21

I really like the other actors, just I don't know, this isn't like their best like performances, but it seems like there was so much exposition, there wasn't really a whole lot of character building for because they were s introducing him so fast and there's so many of them.

SPEAKER_04 10:42

Yeah, yeah, and it was it was definitely like a heavy just be because there was a lot of you know critiquing and but also burning up like a lot of kind of fun things to think about because especially whenever Chris Rock's character, Rufus. But yeah, whenever he's kind of talking about, you know, um sleeping on his shoes, yeah, telling Bethany that she's eventually, you know, she's actually related to Jesus and stuff. Jay, you're part black. So good. Um, but you know, like the ideas of thinking he's like, yeah, you know, we cut from when Jesus is 12 to when he's like in his 30s, and then he's like that's when the Rufus was around. Yeah, it is like, you know, they would have had another kid. And it's just like they don't make you think that at church. That it's like don't think it's outside of the Bible. It's like only think about what's inside the Bible, but you never think it's like, oh yeah, how many brothers and sisters did he have?

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah, it says, yeah, it's some brothers and sisters.

SPEAKER_04 11:41

And I just think that's like, you know, just a lot of things like that. It seems interesting. It's like who's been cut out, who's not been cut out. I remember watching on some history channel stuff about the Bible, and it's like the the lost books of the Bibles and things like that. And it's like, you know, like how Mar like they found things with like Mary was supposed to have a book and then she does, yeah. And then he, you know, they go into this movie about like, yeah, you know, they didn't, you know, there women has no power in these in the Bible, and it's like, oh well.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah, the early church leaders like cut that shit out of it. It's like we don't want that, come on. Only the Yeah, that's uh those extra books that that are not included are called the Apocrypha. And they are included in certain like the Syrian Bible, because it's like one of the oldest ones that we have.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

And all the Apocrypha was still in it. Yeah. But they removed all those like in the sixteen hundreds or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

Wonder why. How can we use this to manipulate people in the best way for us?

SPEAKER_00 12:38

It could have been like the twelve hundreds. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

I don't know history.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

Um how what did you how did you feel about uh Alanis Morset being God?

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Oh, that was really great. Love it. She's so pretty.

SPEAKER_04 12:51

Yeah. Then it's like, wow, the girl God is the girl that sung about going down on Dave Juliet in the theater. It's like so tiny. I know, I didn't didn't realize it. I actually didn't know what she looked like until I see saw this movie. I think I saw this at least probably in junior high or high school in Comedy Central or something. Um, and before I get into some notes, I want to talk about Linda Forentino. Um so I was listening to a podcast a couple days ago that was just kind of talking about this movie, and they said like they didn't feel like she seemed right for the movie. Yeah. But I completely disagree. I like she's quiet, but there's also like this almost kind of there's sometimes where everything that she says she kind of gives a little smirk to. And I was like, it it kind of rolled. I kind of actually loved it. Um, because it was like, oh, this is all so silly. And I don't know. I feel like it worked for the movie. I don't know if you felt the same way.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah, I thought she's fine. I mean, her character is kind of put in this position where she's has to make time for 12 other characters.

SPEAKER_04 13:58

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

She has to be like pretty quirky to kind of stand out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:02

Sometimes, but I'm also believable enough to be like, yeah, this is probably how I'd think of it. It's like, okay. Even though I'd probably be a little more like, holy shit, there's an angel in my room. Well, she kind of was at first. It's like you just transported me to a Mexican restaurant house as possible. It's like, are we in Mexico? It's like, no, just a Mexican restaurant down your road. Yeah. All right. Um, so we'll get into some facts.

Protests Set Stories And Dark Trivia

SPEAKER_04 14:28

So William Donahue of the Catholic League lambasted the film and publicly protested it for months without actually seeing it. When his office called ViewSkew and requested a special screening so he could speak out about it intelligently, Kevin Smith responded, So what's he been doing for the past six months? Speaking of it like an idiot, essentially. And then never even seen it. Even, even uh, and then also unbeknownst to protesters, Kevin Smith joined one of the Catholic groups that protested his film. He managed to get interviewed by a reporter who recognized him, though Smith managed to stay incognito by giving his friend's name as his own, Brian Johnson, who was also representing the rally. Yeah. And telling her that he is often mistaken for the clerk's director. During the interview, Smith also made the comment that he kind of liked uh his first uh Smith's first films. So it's like great, he's just there at the protest, like, yeah, this movie sucks. And it's like he directed it, but they literally know so little about the movie they don't know who he is.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

I think I've seen that picture of him at the front of a picket line.

SPEAKER_04 15:31

Yeah, I think I remember watching the actual interview, and it's pretty funny. It's just it's like you're there just protesting something you have literally zero. And it's like, this is why he made the movie about you guys.

unknown 15:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:43

It's like you don't even know what you're doing, you're just doing it because you feel like you should. Yeah. So um Jason Muse had the entire script memor memorized before rehearsals. When asked why, he said it was because he didn't want to anger Alan Rickman, because Kevin Smith took him aside before rehearsals began and said he needed to be his best behavior and bring his A game to the set. Nice. And Kevin Smith talked to Alan Rickman and was like, hey, it's like uh sorry if Jay's you know being too much or anything. He's like, no, Jay Mu Alan Rickman says, no, Jay Muse is an American treasure. It's like he absolutely loved Jay Muse. I'm like, what? I fucking love Alan Rickman. It's like he loves little shitheads like we do. Um and so Kevin Smith wrote a lengthy multi-part blog detailing Jason's Mews battles with drugs. In it, he describes how Muse was using heroin during the filming of Dogma with specific reference to the scene outside of movies where the apostle is telling Bethany, Silent Bob, and Jay his life story. Muse kept nodding off during takes where he wasn't in the shot, earning himself a telling off by Smith. Later during the scene in the bar where Azrael was has them all sitting down and is lecturing them, you can often see Jason Muse on the nod. Clearly, they forgot to wake him up for the takes with the wide shots. That sucks. That's gotta be rough. Such a sad thing. It's like, damn it, it's my best friend. Do better. Be better. Which I think now he's gonna help out a lot. Yeah. And now he's uh obviously not on drugs or anything. I follow him on Instagram, so I feel like I would notice him a little bit if he was.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Are they still making content together?

SPEAKER_04 17:23

Yeah, they uh came out with Clerks 3, I think. Uh 2022, 2023. So I mean I haven't watched it yet.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Um Jay's like a dad, like a community leader.

SPEAKER_04 17:33

Yeah, I mean you could probably I I I remember watching uh Jay and Silent Bob uh the reboot. Um I don't know, it was a pretty sweet movie. I mean, none of like Kevin Smith's movies are really like good anymore, but it I don't know, they're love letters to his like friends and previous characters that you just kind of can't help but like them at the same time. It's not like Kevin Smith's really like the greatest director. He's more he's a better writer than director. I think um there I remember hearing something that he was told it's like someone was like, you know, you don't have to just film everybody against a wall. You can, you know, put them in front of a window so there's depth on the scene.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

And you can shoot every scene at a diner or a restaurant or a bar.

SPEAKER_04 18:25

As long as everybody sits down. Well, I think that's I don't know, he just wants to let his writing do the talking or the work. And um I will say there are some movies that he's gotten much better at filming. Like I think of Red State and Tusk, where they look a lot better and you know, the directing's better.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

I haven't seen those. I haven't heard of those.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

Uh, Red State rolls. You should watch Red State. We'll eventually do it on here. Nice. Um maybe after Jay and Silent Bob. So according to Kevin Smith, Alan Rickman held on to the Moracas all day when they shot the scene in the Mexican restaurant when Metatron shook them after his meeting with Bethany. He started driving the crew and cast crazy playing them all day long.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

That's hilarious. And the name Metatron just sounds like a I know it sounds like Transformer. I don't know. I was like, That makes the Bible so much more interesting.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

Yeah. I don't even remember hearing a Metatron when I went to church, which is wild. Because they don't they don't preach the Old Testament, man. That's sure. So he's all Old Testament. That's that's definitely why then. So uh when Kevin Smith and Scott Mosier heard Alan Rickman was a chasing Amy fan, they asked him to play Metatron. He read the script and came back with two questions. Would they stay faithful to the script? And were the rings real or CGI?

SPEAKER_00 19:44

And what's Metatron?

SPEAKER_04 19:45

Yeah, what's Metatron? Um, so Robert Rodriguez, you know, he did um From Dust Till Dawn, the Spy Kids stuff. So Kevin Smith pursued Robert Rodriguez to direct the film. Rodriguez enjoyed the script, but in seeing how personal the story was, insisted that Smith direct it himself.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Um, all right, I got a lot more, but I'm actually just gonna do just three more.

SPEAKER_04 20:10

Okay, so according to Kevin Smith, Linda Florentino was very difficult to work with. Some days she wouldn't even speak to him. He later said that he wished he'd offered the role to Janine Groffolo instead, which I could see, but I'd almost feel like she'd be too funny at the same time. Once filming Rap, Smith and Florentino didn't speak to each other anymore. After Smith suffered a heart attack in 2018, he was contacted by many people he hadn't spoken to in a long time, including Linda. During their conversation, he apologized to her over his earlier comments about her. Smith said, I was thankful to hear from her, and it also gave me a chance to say I'm sorry that I ever said that thing years ago. It gives you a chance to make amends, so that was my favorite one. I was like, oh, when watching this movie, I was like, why is everybody wearing it's like why are so many people wearing a blazer with a hoodie on? And it's like Ben Affleck and Matt Daven and Alan Rickman do it. And apparently so they can fly. Well, it was so the rigging. The hoods worn around their neck of the three angels in the film, Metatron, Bartleby, and Loki represent their halos. And I was like, Ah, that's cool. Oh, because it was so weird. I'm like, why are they dressed similarly?

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Jersey halos.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

Yeah. God, it's just so funny. That's in Jersey. And I love the like the sting, the styon triplets, I think is how they call it.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

The murder triplets.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

At first I was like, are they supposed to be like three horsemen of the apocalypse? But they're just, and is Azreel supposed to be one? But I think they're just the own made up.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

They look I would just yeah. Push them over, I guess, since they're on rollerblades.

SPEAKER_04 21:54

It's like I kind of I would love to do kind of a similar movie like this, but instead of it being like C. In like New Jersey, like feel to it, be like, let's do it. Tennessee one, it'd just be a bunch of like hillbilly angels.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Fuck yeah, dude. That'd be hilarious. I wouldn't even know how to start it. Imagine Michael coming in town. He's got like a chew in his mouth. Yeah. The voice of God.

SPEAKER_04 22:20

It's like, yeah, I'm the voice of God. Well, you know what? We know Metatrama will be Sling Blade.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

You never know.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

It's like, I don't know. I guess uh who has heard the voice of God? It's like what who who would be my brother? I guess like Bartle Bartleby would be, I don't know, Charlie Daniels. I don't know.

Rights Drama And Why It Vanished

SPEAKER_04 22:44

Um, so due to religious backlash, Disney ha was having doubts about releasing the film, at which point Miramax's Harvey Weinstein personally bought the district distribution rights, and the film was released by Lionsgate. Instead, since Weinstein owned the film, it became out of print after its release on Blu-ray in 2008, was thus unavailable to stream or purchase digitally for many years. Kevin Smith finally regained the rights in 2024 and re-released it both theatrically and digitally to celebrate its 25th anniversary. And I guess like Harvey held on to it for so long and not releasing it. Or I guess just be like, if someone wants to buy the rights, you have to buy it for five million dollars. Yep. And he was trying to sell it to his, I guess, like brother that was also at work with him, who completely like disowned him once all the stuff came out. And he was like, buy the rights for five million. He's like, no, it's like, how about 3.5 million? He's like, no, it's not worth that much. It was like apparently the value of it was only like $50,000. Nice. And he was trying to outsell them while in jail. It's like, man, what a shitty guy. He's like the ultimate bad guy.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Don't have a bargaining chip here. I know. It's like, you see.

SPEAKER_04 23:54

What are you gonna do to love it? Yeah. And um, so apparently um Alanis Morset was originally meant to play Bethany, uh, but was unable because of her uh 1998 and 99 world tour. By the time she was able to work on the film, the role had been cast, so she was offered the chance to play God as compensation. Um and originally Kevin Smith wanted Holly Hunter to play God, couldn't do it. And then um Alan Rickman was like, hey, get Emma Thompson. Um, and then she ended up not being able to do it, and then we became Alonis Morset, which was nice. That was pretty cool. It's such a random and awesome. I'm curious how she would have been as Bethany, since I don't know if she's a good actress or not. No, probably not. And I just love that God just wants to go and just like play skee ball and do a handstand in front of a tree and then fall down.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Like and scream people's heads off. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

And that's like one of my questions, it's like, why why wouldn't God just make it to where he could just talk to us? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

You think he's like he's just quiet, he's just one of his angels, just like shh.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

It's like he he he's just like he I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

I don't know, I don't even know. It's like he literally doesn't want to hear from us so much that it's like if I talk to you, you die. Just to let you know. If you see me, you die.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

If you talk to me, you die.

SPEAKER_04 25:17

But I love you. Jason, you have any thoughts about it? Uh all right.

Plot Setup With Angels And Indulgences

SPEAKER_04 25:24

Should we let's get into the plot of dogma? But before that, I want to ask everyone at home, what is the point of dogma? We will say it after the plot. Um, but you can email us or click the link in the top of the description that says send us some fan mail, and then you can text us right from your phone. And if that is not an available option on the platform you're on, you can go to the very bottom and see our uh Gmail. We recommend mailbag at gmail.com and then you can send us stuff that way. We would love to hear from you. So, Jason, let's get into the 1999 movie Doctor. So the film opens with an elderly homeless man on a deserted New Jersey boardwalk in Ash Bar Ashbury Park being assaulted and severely beaten by three mysterious preteen kids in street hockey gear. Or the Stegen? Is it Sti how do you say it? Stygian? Stygian Sty Stygian. Stygian. I don't know. Remember that. Yeah, that's how you say it. I do remember. Because I did look up how to say it and just you know it's like the theories. Yeah. Oh yeah. Man, he really he really mixes a lot in it. Which makes sense because he's such a comic book guy. Kevin Smith is, I'm sure he's he sees all this stuff that he learned in Catholicism and stuff in the world. He really could make all this cool comic book style, like, right. Oh, I know. And it's wild that he hasn't. But I know he's done like a lot of like uh um Batman and Daredevil and stuff like that. But uh written a lot of different comics. So in the nearby town of Red Bank, um, Cardinal Glick, played by George Carlin, who apparently when he read the script, he's like, I feel like I should get a writer's uh credit on this just because Kevin Smith was such a big fan of his. The Buddy Christ. I love it. That should be the way it is now. He just smiles and gives you a thumbs up. Hell yeah. I'd have that in my house.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_04 27:49

Yeah. Yeah. Um, and uh a rededication of century old church with a uh what is Paul sanction? Papal. Papal, yeah. Anybody who enters the church on the day of the rededication ceremony would have all their sins forgiven in a plenary indulgence and given a morally clean slate. Um, and I was thinking, because it's like Catholicism, Cath Catholicism, wow. Yeah. And I was just like, man, if they did this today, it'd just be like a Funko Pop type of situation. Hell yeah. It's like Buddy Christ would just be a Funko Pop.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Pretty sure I've seen Jesus Funko Pops. They do have Jesus Funko Pops, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

It's like, and it's just wild because you know, Funko Pops is Funko, and then pop is kind of like how they had wow on there. I was like, hmm, you know, you kind of nailed it. It's the same advertiser, yeah. And it it just kind of is like a comic book even like look to it, this the print. So we cut to two fallen angels, Bart Libby, played by Ben Affleck, and Loki as Matt Damon. So I did kind of forget to say this at the beginning. So Kevin Smith and these two are they're close. They're in they're in like the earlier movies, yeah. Um like Chasing Amy, of course. Um, but they're so close that Kevin Smith is the reason that Goodwill Hunting got made. So shit. Yeah, they they sent Kevin Smith the script asking him to direct it. And he was like, This is an actual movie.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Have you guys seen it?

SPEAKER_04 29:23

I can't I can't direct this, and then that's how it got to, and then so he essentially sent it to people, and that's how Gus and Zant did it. Nice. So it's like they kind of have their careers like because of Kevin Smith a little bit. I mean, I'm sure they would have found someone else.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

He's like, Dear, dear new director, you'll really like these apples.

SPEAKER_04 29:40

Yeah. Hell yeah, how do you like them apples? But I just think it's fun. And then um, like in the newest Jay and Silent Bob, like Ben Affleck comes back and stuff. And it was he it was actually when Ben Affleck heard that he was making Jay and Silent Bob, he's like, Hey, I mean, why didn't we, why didn't you tell us that you're doing this? And he's like, We didn't think you'd have time or want to do it. And he's like, obviously, I want to be in it. Yeah. It's like, but he so he ends up being in it and they're kind of like making fun of Batman that he was in and stuff. It was kind of it was really sweet. It's kind of like the best scene of that whole movie, presently. So yeah, Bartley B and Loki who are hanging out in an airport tournament, Loki convinces a nun to give up religion. It's like, you know, just go buy yourself a nice little dress. Hell yeah. Originally in the script, it's like, go find a nice piece of ass. They're like, uh, maybe that's too much. I don't know. And it's like, in this movie. So he convinces her that all gods are just mythology, even though he knows there is an actual god. Right. This is Bar Lovy's like, even though you've literally talked to God. And he's the one that told you to do all this, and you know he exists. You still tell everybody he doesn't exist. He's like, Yes, it's so funny messing with the clergy. He's so petty. Yeah. And it makes you think that, like, oh, he's gonna be the biggest bad in this. Yeah. And then uh turns out maybe not. So Bartlowby likes to go to the airports because it's human humanity at its best, like you know, when they get off the plane and stuff. Um, so they are sent a newspaper cutting regarding the rededication. Loki was the former angel of death, and Bartlow be a Grigory fallen angel talked him into quitting the his position, which got them banned from heaven to serve an eternity in a place worse than hell. Wisconsin. I love it. They walk by. There's like the cheese head, like a little punch him. Yeah. Um great little opening thing. And apparently Ben Affleck invited um oh fuck, why did I bring it up? I can't remember her name, of course. Um, Gwyneth Paltrow. And uh off-screen, just a few seats away from them when they're talking, she's just sitting there just kind of watching the scene.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

And I was like, oh, that's a squeeze her in. Yeah, she's on set, you gotta get her on for they'd have to pay her. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:00

But as an extra she's too big of a star right now, we can't pay her.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Oh yeah, she was huge.

SPEAKER_04 32:05

Yeah. Because I think this was the year that Shakespeare in Love came out. So she was big at this point. So Barley B and Loki are not willing to spend another thousand years in Wisconsin. They see the rededication as a loophole to sneak back into heaven. After analyzing the situation where they have to become mortal, the plan seems foolproof. Loki also figures that he can get back in God's good side if he resumes his position as the angel of death, killing people who God would consider sinners, particularly the creators of the hit children's show movie The Golden Cat. The two set off for New Jersey. Um then they get into the um the elevator. Let's kill people. Girl spits out, oh not you. There's so many good lines like that where it's like they just say some off-the-wall shit and they're like, oh, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

You know, movie is the the fast food restaurant.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

Yeah, for clerks too. Yeah. Yeah, it's like through a lot of their a lot of his films now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

And like the golden calf is also like a a reference in the Bible, too.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Right. Yeah. The statute to Baal.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

Yeah. Kind of wild how much uh like religious stuff is in his movies. Just even without knowing it.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

It was a huge part of his life growing up during the second satanic panic.

SPEAKER_04 33:18

Yeah. How many satanic panics can we have? I feel like we're due for one. I think we're just in a constant one. Or with like the I feel like there was the uh pizza gate. There was a lot of like, I feel like people made that a very satanic thing. Just what didn't get as big.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

It's kind of like those crazy files that everyone keeps.

SPEAKER_04 33:37

Yeah. Don't worry, there's nothing in those.

Bethany’s Mission And The Big Stakes

SPEAKER_04 33:40

We then meet Bethany Sloan, a Catholic who has been having a crisis of faith since her husband left her after disease destroyed her uterus and ruined her chances of ever having children. She lives in Illinois and works at an abortion clinic, which is often picketed by Catholic pro-life demonstrators. Bethany rejects going on out on a date or socializing with her co-workers in favor of her job. Um, it's like I love it. She comes out of her car. Like, so we just see her in church, and the uh priest is talking about how there were like a catatonic man, like in New Jersey. That's the guy from the beginning. Oh, there's like little things throughout the whole movie about that person. Oh sure, yeah, I didn't notice. And then it's like her and G Janine Groffle are talking, it's like talking about faith and stuff, and it's like Janine's like, you need to get filled in more ways than one. Yeah, get laid. And there's also the greater line um Bethany's like, I think God is dead, Janine. A sign of a true Catholic. It's like so clever. There's so much cleverness in this movie, and I love it.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

I really like Janine Garofalo. I know, so Garofalo.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

It's like I could see people being like, yeah, she would have probably been a better Bethany, but I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

I think she's she's too funny. She is too funny almost. She's too snarky, yeah. Yeah. Too smart. Yeah. Probably to be a lead woman. Too intelligent.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

To be a lead woman. Um, we also meet Azreel, a demon. We learn that he is in charge of three kids from the beginning who are called the demonic say it again? The Stygian? Stygian. I think it's a good thing. Stygian twin. Triplets. Um, he enters a house and kills a homeowner, choosing the home because it has central air conditioning. Uh why is it the biggest a delightful sin?

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Why is it a sin?

SPEAKER_04 35:25

Uh maybe maybe the people in hell they consider it a sin. I don't know. Um he tells the triplets they need to kill the last scion, whoever that will be.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

I don't even know what that means.

SPEAKER_04 35:36

Yeah, I don't know what scion means. I should have looked it up.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Last hero. Oh, okay. I guess. Right. Let's see. It's gotta be a Catholic thing.

SPEAKER_04 35:47

A descendant or heir of wealthy, aristocratic, or influential family. So essentially Jesus. Jesus is like any kids. Jesus' nephew. No, niece or whatever. Oh, his his great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandniece. So that night, Bethany is getting ready for bed when she meets Metatron, an angel who acts as God's messenger. Yeah. She immediately is like in fly flames and be like, I am Metatron. Blah, blah. She gets out her fire extinguisher. It's like, use the whole tank. How could you? He shows that he has no genitals because she's like, You're not gonna rape me, are you? You mortals always think we're here to rape you.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

He's like Autobots, rape out.

SPEAKER_04 36:33

And then he shows the wings, which is great. I want wings. I don't want fucking angel wings.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

You know who else I'd wear? Fucking Optimus Prime, baby. Hell yeah. And Megatron. Yeah. Megatron's older, more handsome brother.

SPEAKER_04 36:50

I don't know about more handsome. Um, he transports her to a Mexi restaurant to have tequila so he can have the taste of tequila, not actual tequila.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Thinks Loki. Heaven sucks. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:06

Which is uh uh issue Bartleby Bartleby will have later. Um he tells her about Bartleby and Loki's plan to get back into heaven. It is here where we learn the flaw in their plan. If they sneak back into heaven, um, through the power of the plenary indulgence loophole, they will have proven that God isn't infallible, which would cause all existence to be erased. God uh wants Bethany to stop Bartleby and Loki from entering the church. Uh she doesn't want to help because God was never there for her troubles of having a family. Though the though the Metatron's he also tells her that he'll she'll have support from two other prophets. The one who speaks, and he will. Such a good line. Um, Bethany is reluctant at first, but realizes over the course of the conversation that the situation is real. Um, I love Rigman and Linda in this. I think they are fantastic in this scene. Her little like, oh, this is also silly and stupid. And then him just being like, Are you dense? Listen to what I'm asking you.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Can I please fucking continue?

SPEAKER_04 38:11

But then I'm uninterrupted. Also, like, you know, him saying something, about to say something insane and then like saying it while he's taking a drink of tequila, like, and then also you'll have to go there and potentially kill him. What was that? Nothing. Um, and then I love the line: sex is a joke in heaven. The way I understand it is a joke down here, too. Jamie, is that a shot at you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Or Jay. It's gotta be. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 38:42

It's just I don't know. It's just I just love the idea that Jay and Silent Bob are gonna be prophets.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

How are they prophets? I don't know. How? Of what? Because they're Jersey boys, baby. They're from Jay-Z. Diamonds in the rough. Yeah. And it's like, how is Jay a prophet?

SPEAKER_04 38:59

I can say Silent Bob. He's got like a weird monk type type of character. I don't know. It's wild. I love it though. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

I love how they come in like superheroes to rescue. Yeah, they like jump into frame almost.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

Snoogate!

SPEAKER_04 39:19

Um speaking of, Bethany leaving work that night is attacked by the Stygian triplets.

Jay And Silent Bob Join Up

SPEAKER_04 39:25

Just as they are about to kill her, they are beaten up and flee. The heroes turn out to be Jay and Silent, Bob Baby.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

It's great.

SPEAKER_04 39:36

I know, and we just had the conversation a couple episodes ago about like, oh, oh yeah, on Ready or Not, the last episode, actually. So funny. Um Snoop's in the motherfucking dude. So stupid and funny, baby. Um, they immediately want a reward.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

I know he's like, how could you what are you doing? Like it's like you have to have sex with me now. Well, I think he was trying to get money. He's just saving people for money. He wanted money and sex.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

Those are the and like he talks about uh they're pro-choice, really, and the whole reason they hang around the clinic is to meet loose women. I know um and then uh Jay calls himself a prophet and she realizes oh my god, it's these two numbskulls. You also have like the clap, like you know, they the fact that Silent Bob smokes so much, there's a lot of like him lighting up a cigarette, and it's just like it's almost like his putting on his cow for Silent Bob. Oh, it's so good. Um, so locally and Barbie are getting some weapons to kill. Uh they wish they had something bigger, better than just guns, but he's like, this will do.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Yeah, he hands on the gun, he's like, what does he call it? The camera. It'll make your the the enemy shit their pants.

SPEAKER_04 40:56

Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Because that was also one of the clerks got behind the counter. Um uh so then while having a late night meal with Jay and Silent Bob at a local dinner who thinks they are gonna get laid, Bethany learns it's like, so what are we gonna fuck after this or not?

SPEAKER_00 41:13

So you're saying there's a chance.

SPEAKER_04 41:16

Uh Bethany learns that Jay and Silent Bob are uh two New Jersey-based drug dealers slash stoners who came to Illinois in hopes of finding John Hughes' fictional town of Shermer, Illinois, from his various feature films, but they were disappointed that there is no Sherman. We got here, you know what? There is no Sherman illumination.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Actual book instead of a fixer.

SPEAKER_04 41:38

Like they just thought there then they could meet women John Hughes movies. It's like, what? Um this movie.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Isn't it because they said all the guys there are pussies?

SPEAKER_04 41:49

Yeah. And it's funny, this movie either I can't tell if it absolutely loves John Hughes movies or hates them because uh Home Alone is directed by John Hughes, and they kind of like diss it a little bit. Um so she asked them to take her with them to New Jersey. Jay thinking Bethany wants to have sex with them, agrees to take her with them. Of course he does. Um, and there's like one part where she's like, hold on, wait. And he's like, I'll scream rape.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Oh yeah, because I found out she was Christian.

SPEAKER_04 42:18

Yeah, they're like getting ready to leave. She's like, no, wait, I'll scream rape. Um she says she agrees to have sex with them if they only have five minutes to live and they're all about to die.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

God don't make promises.

SPEAKER_04 42:30

Hey, it's a good thing that Jay is this uh aggressively horny because it helps save the world.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Yeah, she can manipulate him so easily. So easily.

SPEAKER_04 42:41

It's like, man, Jay, just chill out. Maybe we'll lose your virginity because I can only assume he's a virgin. There's no way anybody has to do that. Secretly gay. Yeah, that is also true. Obviously. By. At least by. At least. So Jay manages to break down her. Um, so yeah, they're gonna go, and Jay's like, I'm driving, and he manages to break down her stick shift car by driving too fast in the wrong gear.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

It's like the car is like, it's like I'm driving.

SPEAKER_04 43:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

It's like 90 in first gear.

SPEAKER_04 43:11

They got their radio all the way up, and then you just see both of them doing their little like head slate thing, and it's like it's not my fault.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

I've never driven before.

SPEAKER_04 43:19

I've never driven a stick shift before. It's like then why did you drive? Um, and then also at the same time on a bus, Bartlby and Loki are heading to movie headquarters. Bart Bartleby thinks it's silly that they are eradicating sinners. Uh, to prove he knows when someone has committed a mortal sin. Uh, Loki asks a man if he is cheating on his wife. Um, he is, and so he kills them.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

I know, but then you gotta walk the rest of the way.

SPEAKER_04 43:46

I know, and that's kind of like a thing they bring up later. It's like you just had to shoot the people on the bus.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

I mean, couldn't they just drive the bus? I guess.

SPEAKER_04 43:53

Yeah. Whose house runs? House, yeah. Whose house? Runs. I don't know. I don't know. And then he's like yelling, my and I'm like, what is that from? And if you know, leave us some fan mail or a comment in the YouTube. Um I was like, is it the Martin show? Was it the show that uh Martin Lawrence had? Maybe. But I thought that was maybe after this. Yeah. So by morning and stranded in the middle of nowhere, Bethany is pissed and just about to head home when a mysterious uh man falls from the sky and lands on the road completely naked. Uh uh, the man turns out to be Rufus, played by Chris Rock, baby.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Chris Rock, fantastic in this movie. One of the funniest entrances. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_04 44:42

And he's like, it's like, oh, that hurt.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Bloodass.

SPEAKER_04 44:47

Yeah, it's like uh it's like they used to call me long Rufus, but it's cold out. Um and he's the 13th apostle who was left out of the Bible because he was black. In exchange for helping the trio start Bartleby and Loki, he wants to ensure that he is referenced in the Bible and that Jesus' true color, black, is revealed. A black man can steal your stereo, but he can't be your savior. He also claims that Jesus still owes him 12 bucks. Shekels. N word owes me 12. Jay and Silent Bob then go to a strip, uh, which was uh um, it was a that line was actually a Chris Rock ad lib. Oh nice. He owes me 12 bucks. Uh Jalen Silent Bob then go to a strip club to prove that Jay isn't gay, and the group meet a beautiful muse turn stripper named Serendipity.

Rufus Arrives And The Muse Speaks

SPEAKER_04 45:37

Um uh yeah, love the whole like them at movie kind of talking about all the religious, like how he was you know, just how they put more of the people in c of color outside of the Bible because you know they wanted him to be a white Jesus and stuff like that. Which even then he wouldn't like wouldn't be completely white, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:59

I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

It's no way. Are they white?

SPEAKER_04 46:03

I mean, I like because in the Middle East they're not white, right? They're I guess brown. I don't know. I don't know. If you know, let us know. Because I feel like I probably sound like a dummy. Um but and then I love when they like I don't know, I just love all that discussion. It's it's a lot of the discussion about like, hey, what's outside the Bible that was happening there that was influencing all this that they just didn't put in? Oh yeah. Um because it was written uh what '70 or yeah, and there's just some like probably like staunchy people like, I don't want this in there. Yeah, they just throw it out. I mean, just happen like the people who put it together. If this one of them's racist, they're just not gonna put any of it in there. If one of them's a misogynist, they're not they're just not gonna put any of this in there.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

One of them was a misogynist, yeah, for real. Right.

SPEAKER_04 46:50

Um but I love when they go in the strip club because it's like, you know, it's got that like the ABC song, which is so fun. Um and then like you got her dancing, she's got a little pigtail. She like, she kind of like walks around, does like from one group to the next group, and then you got them doing their little fun little dancing and the little money bit where the bidding war. Yeah, the bidding war. And it's just like just pulls it out. And I don't know, there's just something so joyful about it that it's like it almost makes me not even think that it's just a perverted scene.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

Yeah, Kevin Smith makes that scene really awesome. The other guys are really good too, like the guy that's like looking over his arms.

SPEAKER_04 47:29

Apparently, they're uh they're friends of Kevin Smith, and that's why they're in the movie. Um yeah, so meanwhile, Azreel isn't happy about this Stygian's failure to keep kill Bethany, so he decides to send something far more powerful. In Pittsburgh. That's what it's gonna be. Bartleby and Loki enter the boardroom of Moby uh movie The Golden Cast Production Executives after pointing out the fatal sins of everyone in the room, and that the golden movie cow they used as the company's mascot is the same as the golden calf of biblical times, and that they are so powerful that they have nothing to fear anymore. Loki shoots and kills everyone in the film. Um, some of the uh things one guy cheated on his wife, uh got girlfriend drunk, paid someone to sleep with her, and then broke up with her because she cheated and then she killed herself. Holy fuck.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Yeah, that was rough.

SPEAKER_04 48:22

Yeah. Uh uh guy who disowned his gay son.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

Um guy with the tile in that sleep with an 11-year-old boy. Yeah, it's like the way he said it. I fucking love this scene.

SPEAKER_04 48:34

Uh mother and put her a mother in a third-rate nursing nursing home to buy a rubber.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Sold the nursing room.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

Oh fuck. Uh yeah, then sucks. Um, and then the main guy did something to his own son. Um, but yeah, so they shoot and kill everyone in it, sparing only a woman who claim who he claims to be actually an innocent soul.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

She's all covered in blood.

SPEAKER_04 48:56

Uh she ends up splashed with blood and scared to death, but unharmed, though she is nearly shot by Loki because she says she didn't say God bless you when he sneezed. But then Bartleby's like, come on, let's go. I keep saying Bartleby and then Bartleby.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Bartleby.

SPEAKER_04 49:10

Bartleby. It's just the way I see it makes me want to say it. I know. Bartleby. It's actually it'd be a hell of a middle name.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Um, it's raining out. I just think that um, first of all, it's like, hell yeah, these types of people dying in a movie.

SPEAKER_04 49:28

It's great. I feel like there's a lot of people uh like this that we know, and it's like, I wish something bad would happen to you guys. Um, so it's nice to see it in a movie from 1999.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

Um what is what was Loki making? I mean, well, he was making the little man. Yeah, he was. What was he making it out of?

SPEAKER_04 49:45

Onions.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Just an onion. Yeah, he's making it out of onion. I guess that's why I'm not sure. He said I could smell onions.

SPEAKER_04 49:50

Yeah, and that's because he's literally doing the most obnoxious thing possible, carving a voodoo doll out of an onion.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

That's so gross.

SPEAKER_04 49:58

And then like he he kind of explains the stinkiest one. He's like explains about the voodoo doll that it's like it's a magic power that like has no god behind it. It's just out of pure faith and stuff like that. And it's just like talk a little bit about what the movie's about, you know? I don't know. It's just Ben Affleck and Matt Damon are so fun and good in this, and you're like, yeah, have these two little shitheads destroy these other worst shitheads. Worse shitheads. Yeah. Matt. I say worse shitheads as they've just been killing people. Yeah, that is true. Yeah. Um, but back at the Illinois Strip Club, um, following a long theological discussion with Serendipity, who claims that God is a woman and the Bible says it's a man man because of all the people who wrote the Bible are men. Um, and that she has amused and inspired so many people, but never gets credit. She wanted to come back to the real world to make things herself, but she keeps getting writer's block. Um, a little a line from her. Serendipity, when when are you gonna learn? It's not about who's right and or wrong. No denominations nailed it yet. Because they're all too self-righteous to realize that it doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have faith. Your hearts are in the right place, but your brain's gotta wake up.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Yeah, I don't think I like the idea of just you just need to have faith for no reason at all. Like that's you just gotta have it.

SPEAKER_04 51:22

Yeah. Well, it's just like, you know, because people get I think it's obviously Kevin Smith's like dealing with uh being a Catholic, you know, just like how strict and how hard the rules are. It's like all and like how all these denominations have their own little rules and their own little things. And it's just like, does any of that matter if you have the faith? Right, that's uh all that should matter. And it's like as long as you're doing what the Bible says, that's what you should be doing. Not I can't play music in this church. This music this church allows you to do it. This church wants you to stand up and uh kneel 500 times in a row.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

Hell yeah, get them glutes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:02

Um, I don't know. It's just a fun thing. And then she also says, like, yeah, I'm the reason that like uh what is it like Oh yeah, 12 out of 13 of the top grocery movies have been made? And then she's like, I didn't do the home alone one. Yeah, I don't know who made that shit.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Except for the one with the kids at home, it's the fight off the burglars.

SPEAKER_04 52:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 52:20

Yeah, does Kevin Smith like not like Home Alone? It's like maybe he has like the same opinion as me, where it's like, it's a good movie. It's just like I just don't, I just didn't have that love for it like everybody else did growing up.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Didn't have that violent streak in you to want to hurt grown men.

SPEAKER_04 52:36

It's just uh it's like one of those movies, you know, like a lot of people I know love for scump, and I'm just like, I think it's I I like it. It's just like I'm just not upset, you know. Obsessed with it. I mean, I love to quote it because Tom Hanks's performance is great. It's ridiculous. Yeah. And even with like Macaulay Culkin, there's so many parts in it where I'm like, he's so good in this movie in Home Alone that I'm like, yeah, it's obviously good. It's just like I don't have that feeling that I need to watch it every year.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

That nostalgic feeling.

SPEAKER_04 53:03

But I do watch it every year and still enjoy it. So what this conversation is pointless. Um, and then the group is attacked by a demon called uh Golathan, a demon made entirely of uh shit.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

Yeah, it's a golem.

SPEAKER_04 53:19

Yeah, it's the so-called shit demon created from the voided waste of the crucified dead on Golgha. Golgotha. Yeah, hell yeah. Man, can I just tell you? I can't remember how to say things. I I've got to figure out how to fix that. I mean, I guess I'm like halfway through my life. What's the point, right?

SPEAKER_00 53:38

Yeah, there's no point in learning anymore.

SPEAKER_04 53:40

I mean, I just have to do a there's no point in learning anywhere. Fuck, that got me. So the demon lays waste to half the people in the uh club, including a uh a um a gang uh that was befriended by Jay and Silent Bob, who even put them in the gang. Um but the uh shit demon is defeated by Bob with the help of an odor eliminating spray. It's like so good. It's like why do you have that? It's like, why do you think a big guy like that has that on him at all times? Um and then it's probably actually for Jay when he farts all the time. So uh the group continues on the road while Serendipity stays behind to question the shit demon.

Shit Demon Chaos And Road Momentum

SPEAKER_00 54:24

It's like hopefully she can't smell. It's like Bono from South Park is the largest shit I've ever taken.

SPEAKER_04 54:34

I remember that. I love that. As someone who doesn't like you two that much. Um, so somewhere in Pennsylvania, Bartleby and Loki attempt to get on a bus but aren't able to get tickets. And this is where Bartleby's like, you just had to kill the people on the bus. Otherwise, we'd already be there by now. So they are then confronted by um Azreel, who warns them all about the people trying to stop them from entering the New Jersey church and that they intend to kill them and that they should keep a low profile. Uh just want to say, I didn't say it earlier, but Jason Lee, I think he's a national treasure. I think he's always been funny, he's always been good. I think if you haven't watched um uh Jesus, am I really gonna My Name is Earl? You should watch My Name is Earl. He's awesome in that because it's just uh it's it's just kind of a forgotten sitcom because it's on TBS, I guess, and just it was one of the funniest sitcoms out of that time, and I watched so much of it.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

I binge watch the whole I wonder if it's on anything. It just should be.

SPEAKER_04 55:42

It was just great because it's just about like some southern idiots, and I'm like, hey, I know plenty of those, and it's making fun of those people. Love it. That's the best role he's been in. It's great. I think I feel like his his costume is a little cheesy, but whatever. And his oh, yeah, it's the classic, like, you know the devil, the devil looking. He dresses nicely. Kind of reminds me of like Constantine when he comes out in the white suit. It's like the i irony of the devil being in all white. Yeah, pure. Even though he's not the devil, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

He's a demon. He's a demon. Um, so on a train Yeah, so on a train, Bethany talk talks about God.

SPEAKER_04 56:22

Um uh and like Rufus like says, God hates all things that are carried out in his name. Uh so one of the things Rufus says he he still digs humanity, but it bothers him to see the shit that gets carried out in his name. Wars, bigotry, televangelism, but especially the factioning of all of the religions. He said humanity took a good idea, like always, and but uh like always built a belief structure on it, Bethany. Having beliefs isn't good, Rufus. I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier and more deadlier, essentially.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:56

Just like I don't know, there's this um, I know that he actually Kevin Smith wrote this movie actually before he wrote Clerks, ironically.

SPEAKER_02 57:06

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

So it's like obviously the movie that's been on his mind. And I feel like with and this quote goes on a little bit longer, I just don't have all of it. Um but it's just like you can just tell he's been thinking about just writing some of this stuff all the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

It still doesn't make sense to me. What? I like the idea between a belief and yeah, well just that having faith, just having it isn't special in some way. Yeah. Well, I mean I've all obviously got some.

SPEAKER_04 57:30

Yeah, I mean, for someone who has it, it I mean I don't know, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

That's why I don't I don't tell people a lot of times what I believe because um they'll say things like I just think everyone should believe in something.

SPEAKER_04 57:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

It's like how about you just have the idea about it instead? Like, okay, this is not okay for me.

SPEAKER_04 57:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

Not believing.

SPEAKER_04 57:54

Which I mean, that's essentially what like Rufus is saying. It's just like people with beliefs, they're like so much more staunch about it and hardheaded about it, versus like if you just have the idea about something, it's like, oh, I have this idea, they have their ideas. And it's just kind of easier for people to just have a dialogue if you just have ideas instead of beliefs.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

But but in the scene, I thought he was saying that having faith was better because you can't be changed. He's like so they're more reliable.

SPEAKER_04 58:23

He was saying the belief is something that you can't change a belief. But that's why it's better because it's it's it can't be changed. It's like the I if you have the idea of faith, it's better than the belief of faith. I don't know. Something like that. You just like stop talking about it. Um, so while on the train, Jay and Silent Bob meet up with Bartleby and Loki. Uh I love it, Beth, and he walks up. He's like, Loki, so Jay tells me you're gonna sleep with him.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

So of course that's what he's been telling everybody he runs into.

SPEAKER_04 58:59

It's just the way that Matt Damon says it with a little smirk on his face, it's just so funny.

SPEAKER_00 59:04

That's a little douche. Angel douche.

SPEAKER_04 59:08

Yeah, and I just love that. It's like, of course, like two shithead angels are gonna get along with two shithead boys on the train. Yeah, it's just I love it because whenever Bartleby goes and talks to uh Bethany alone, and then it's just Loki with the two boys, and you know, Jay takes a big like hit of a uh of weed and then he like smacks a table and then he gives it to Loki, and Loki they're not allowed, they can't, they're not allowed to ingest it or drink alcohol. So he like pretends to do it, and then he like hits the table too. And the funny thing is, like Silent Bob, you can kind of tell that he's like, You're not that was weird. And I was like, Oh, the second time I watched it, you kind of could see that.

SPEAKER_00 59:48

He's the one that sees through it, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:51

Um, so Bethany and Bartle B become friends over many drinks and discussion on why they lost their faith and how everybody goes to church, but just to do it, you know, not actually get anything out of it. Um, this is where I got the line from earlier: God's in heaven and he's always got his eyes on you. God, I'd do anything to feel that way. Saying, like as a kid, that's how it feels.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:10

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:11

Um, which for some people that makes them feel better. Other people, it's like even when I'm in the shower.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

Yep. He listens to every single thought that you have, and you are judged for them.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:24

Yeah. So the drunk Bethany, not knowing who Bartleby is, tells him about their plan to stop him and Loki. Bardable suddenly goes crazy and tries to kill Bethany right there on the train. Uh, Rufus, Jay, and Silent Bob then step in and they throw the two angels off the train. Oh, yeah. And I love it. Comes in after throwing them off the train. There's a guy just staring at him in the classic Silent Bob says something randomly, and it's like, oh, he can't talk. And it's like, no ticket.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

No ticket. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:54

First rewatch of it, I laughed so loud. That was probably the biggest laugh I had at all time. Um, which but before that, there is also another part that made me laugh a lot. When like Bethany or Rufus is like telling us, like, there's consequences, Loki, consequences monsequences. It's just the idea that an angel is saying something so dumb like that. I was like, that's stuff I say.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:19

You're an angel, you're not supposed to be saying that. Yeah. I don't know. Which just kind of, you know, leads to why I think this movie's so fun. And you just have all these it just like, hey, because it was written, it feels like it was written by a child. Well, and then it's like, you know, when you read the Bible and stuff, you just think you always think they're like, oh, these great people and stuff like that. But then you're just like, what I feel like this movie's really trying to get at is they were just people. They all just have the same like type of emotions and feelings and stuff, but they're higher powers.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

And then yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:54

And it's just like their bad ideas and the thing, the bad things they do or the good things they do change the courses of history, but they had the same emotions and type of ideas that we had, but we just put like, you know, put a halo on their head and we're like, they'll never do anything wrong.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

Yeah, I think they're infallible.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:10

Yeah, yeah. Um, so while howling out in the underground parking garage for the night, Loki, looking back on what Rufus said about there being serious consequences to the plan or smonsequences, uh, questioned whether or not he should go through with it.

Train Confrontation And Bartleby Breaks

SPEAKER_04 1:02:25

Bartleby is infuriated even more and claims that after what Bethany told him on the train, that he has just had an epiphany about how God showed the humans more patience than he ever showed the angels. They don't have anal. And how it's unfair that they should be banished to earth for not agreeing with God's plans while humans should have a choice. He insists that they continue and kill Bethany and the others, even if it means that all of existence will cease to exist. Loki suggests that Bartleby is acting much the way that Lucifer did in this conflict with God.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

He's having a piss party or what do you call it? A pity party.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:08

Completely different thing, Jackson. I can invite you to one if you want to. It's like usually after I have a piss party, have a pity party afterwards. Yes. Um, but you know, just like this the idea that, you know, like angels have the same, you know, like emotions and feelings as us. It's like, yeah, it's like, well, they get all these benefits and we get shit. It's like we can't have one doubt in our lives and then you send us to Wisconsin. I feel like they're cold there.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

Um I don't even have a dick, although classically they they they dick mate with humans to make monsters. Yes, some of well I don't know. I don't think that's in every denomination though. Yeah, the Nephilim, it's in all the Genesis.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:53

Oh. They mate, I'll have to look that up later. I don't know. So, at the same time, having left the train to throw Bartle Bar Bartleby and Loki off their trail, and while camping out in the woods, Bethany questions the increasing seriousness of their situation. She demands to know why she was invested uh with the task of stopping the angels. Rufus then reveals the truth about Bethany. She is the last Zion, the last living blood relative of Jesus. And she can't have no babies. She can't have no babies. Bethany finds this information overwhelming and decides that she can't go through with the mission, cursing God's name. Uh the Metatron then very I love her little dramatic run. I love a good silly run in the movie. There's because it was something that um uh wet hot American Summer about that too.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

Don't forget my pussy cream or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:47

Yeah, like the little stupid run. It's so good. Um the Metatron then comes down from heaven once again, walks on water, and tells her that Jesus took the news about who he was the same way, but ultimately found the courage to go through with it. Bethany is inspired to continue the mission. Um, Bethany, I don't want this, it's too big, Metatron. That's what Jesus said. It's like, oh, that's what she said, joke. But it's also that's what Jesus said, joke. It's so good, Jason. Laugh! No, laugh Bethany, Jesus didn't have any brothers or series. Sisters, Mary was a virgin, Rufus. Mary gave birth to Christ without having known a man's touch, that's true, but she did have a husband. And do you really think they've stayed married to her all those years if he wasn't getting laid? The nature of God and that virgin birth, but those are leaps of faith. But to believe a married couple never got down, well, that's just plain gullibility.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

Yeah. If your wife keeps coming back to you with the whole um That only works once. I God got me pregnant thing. Yeah. I feel like it only works the one time.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:51

But yeah, but it's just like, well, yeah, they didn't have condos back then.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:55

Of course, this marriage well, maybe the East like the fo the Asian. People did. I mean, it like they had like versions. Zero.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:04

Like Zero BC.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

Well, yeah, I mean, that's probably a true intestinal lining. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:10

But you know, they're I'd say probably 90% of the couples were not using that back then. Married couples. Um, and then also Rufus, you're the great, great, great, great, great great niece of Jesus. So that makes Bethany part black. Yeah. So good. So the Metatron then meets up with the others at a local restaurant in New Jersey and tells them that God has gone missing on one of his periodic vacations, in which he takes on a human form and goes to New Jersey coast to play skee ball. Because he loves it, apparently. The group has no idea how this happened and are out of ideas on how to start Bardleby and Loki. Jay then suggests that they go ask Cardinal Glick to cancel a rededication ceremony, therefore rendering the loophole useless. The group, um, and like I love it because Metatron's like, finally, something the prophet has actually said something useful, essentially. So uh the group meets up with Cardinal Glick, but he doesn't buy their story and insists that the ceremony will take place as scheduled. He rudely sends them off. Jay retaliates by stealing one of the Cardinals' golf clubs. Golf clubs. Yeah. And one of my favorite lines in the whole movie, Rufus, I'm telling you, man, the ceremony is a big mistake. Cardinal Glick, the Catholic Church does not make mistakes. Rufus, please, what about church's silent consent to the slave trade, Bethany, and its platform of nonviolent uh non-involvement during the Holocaust? Cardinal Glick, all right, mistakes were made. It's like uh there's one that you're probably missing that I could think of, but you know, I don't know how much that was.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:49

That was really wasn't yeah, that was that was 2000s. That was before all that shit hit the fan. Yeah. Before the internet's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:56

And like, but and like most people kind of knew it at the same time. Yeah, yeah. But um Yeah, I guess if you're not if you weren't around it, you don't know it. Um so as Bartleby and Loki approach New Jersey, Bethany and the others sit in a bar trying to decide what they should do now. Suddenly, Azreel shows up along with the Stygian triplets. He kills the bart. It's like, have you heard the joke about the holy bartender? So he kills the bartender and takes the group hostage while they wait for Bartleby and Loki to enter the church. It's great, because after he does like uh uh bartender with holes in it or holy bartender or whatever, it's like 30 or 40 seconds later, Jay. Oh, that is funny. Uh so and I love the little the horns that Azrael has. I love that they're tiny. It just makes it, I don't know, funny. You shouldn't wear a cool hat if they're big. Yeah, I know that's true. Um, I wouldn't call that hat cool though.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

Meanwhile.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:58

Meanwhile, Bartable and Loki show up at their rededication ceremony. Bartable announces loudly that they have all been condemned by God and that they must now pay for their sins in blood, forcing the now unwilling Loki to join in. He brandishes his wing and begins slaughtering everyone at the ceremony, rapid firing machine guns. Hell yeah. Funny that they have little oozies. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:21

I like their armor though.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:22

Yeah. Oh yeah, I know. And you can kind of see it under their shirt, and this is the first time you can kind of see it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:28

Oh, I didn't know they were always wearing it. I thought that were. Well, they definitely were.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:31

But for this scene, I was like, what's wrong with this shirt? Did they not iron it?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

And then he I was like, oh, oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:37

It's great props. Yeah. And as this is going on at the bar, Azrael tells everyone about his

Last Scion Reveal And Azrael’s Trap

SPEAKER_04 1:09:44

plan. He was once amused himself, but refused to fight in the war between heaven and hell and was condemned to hell as a traitor. He spent a few million years trying to find a way to escape from hell, but realizes that it's impossible. He then discovered the Catholic's plan to make the church in Redbank a passage of forgiveness on that one day. So hell is just Wisconsin. Yeah. Unable to become human and go through the loophole himself, he decided to lure Bart Bartleby and Loki into the church and cause them to destroy existence. He says that he'd rather not exist than go back to hell and is more than willing to take everyone down with him if it means never going back. Um and then so while doing this, the muse uses her power on Silent Bob, who then picks up a golf club that Jay stole from the Cardinal and threatens Azure with it. Well, not really threaten him with it, but like he sees that the muse is like making eyes at him and then he's like, all right, no, go ahead, try to hit me, hit me. Does like a little uses his power to open up his shirt under his buttons. Yeah, it's like Azurel believing the challenge to be a stupid decision allows Silent Bob to hit him with it. Strangely enough, the golf club caves in at Azreel's chest, killing him.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:51

Bob is like, hey, I don't know how it's gonna.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:54

I didn't I didn't I thought this wasn't gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:57

Yeah, it's like sorry, dude.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:00

Yeah. Um demons can only be defeated using an instrument of God, and Bethany assumes the cardinal blessed his clubs for better golf games. And that would definitely happen. Yeah, yeah. Um, using this knowledge, Bethany blesses the sink behind the bar and the team drowned the three Stygians in the holy water. The group then leaves for the church. I love it. Because the muse, like, bless the water. She like slides on like a John Woo film.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

Such a good bit. Such a freaking good bit. It would have been funnier, I think, if they could have somehow given them all swirlies. Uh yeah. Yeah, like holy swirlies.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:36

Go to the toilet, bless the toilet. One at a time. I guess since they already didn't. You know, like a just the three stalls, yeah. I just have a feeling that bar does not have three stalls. No, that's not true. Surprised it has one bathroom.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:49

Right. It's a family breath. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:54

So um they go to the church. They find the scene of Bartleby and Loki's bloody massacre, but since they still exist, they conclude that they haven't yet entered the church. Loki then shows up, drunk and with his wings cut off. He is now human. He and Serendipity greet each other like old friends. When angrily confronted by Bethany about the mass slaughter, Loki says that it was all Bartleby's idea and that he didn't want to go through with the killing, and only wanted to walk through the church archway quietly, then die and have it be done that at that. When the two had killed everyone present and had run out of ammunition, Bartley again seizing strangers from nearby and dropping them from the death sponsor.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:30

That's really good. It was exploding.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:33

Did you notice how weirdly s the CGI was better than I would thought it would look? Which part was Well, I even like the shit demon at first when he's like wallowing in the shit. And then like the the wings don't look terrible. I'm like, Marvel movies. Yeah, well, the ones where he's like flying in the air for sure. Right, yeah. But I was like, this looks better than Marvel movies now. This is weird. It's like I'm sure maybe they done some touch-ups once they got the rights back, potentially. But I was like, for a 1999 movie, this is not too bad. Not bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:05

I'd have to see if that's like probably the most expensive shot in the whole movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:09

For real. Yeah. Um, so Bartleby then comes down from the sky and tells the group that he was waiting for them to arrive before they enter the church so he can kill him. Love when he like uh comes down from the it's like a really nice shot of him just like floating down. It looks silly, but also cool at the same time. I don't know. Um Serendipity tries to tell him that Azrael was just using him, but Bartleby is already aware and tells them that he doesn't care anymore. Bartleby reveals that his mission is no longer to return to heaven, finding God's treatment of angels compared to humans unfair. His goal is now to destroy existence, which he feels is a failed experiment. Um and then Loki tries to talk to Bartleby out of it, and Bartleby is disappointed in him. Bartleby stabs him and kills his old friend. Poor Matt Damon. Matt Damon. The group then attacks and tries to stop Bartleby. Jay tries to help by shooting off his wings with a machine gun, only to learn that he just made him human and thus enable him to re-enter help. Wait, I said that I completely did not add the fact that. And he pulls out his pad. Jay thinks, like, oh, we only got five minutes, let's go. It's like you said this was gonna happen. And at this point, this is where they kind of bring up that that homeless man that was in that is on life support is nearby here, and she's like, Oh, that's God. No, we have to get there. And so then they go there, and then he's like, Hey, cause a distraction, and uh, and you know, Chase takes it off with his pants down. Yeah, and so he goes and it shoots off the wings, and uh, serendipity and Rufus are like, you idiot. Steampete. Um, and her and silent Bob go um to the hospital, and uh Bethany before the end of the world, uh it's gonna save the man. And if she takes him off life support, God would be able to come down and stop Bartleby. She goes with Silent Bob to the hospital, unplugs a man's life support, which releases God from the body. However, the force of God's spirit exiting the body is so powerful it kills Bethany, causing a large wound to open her lower right abdomen, much like the wound Jesus gets on the cross.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:25

Oh, really? Yeah, I didn't think about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:27

Like rather, or rather, wait. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:32

Um, so existence is say, oh no. So Bartably opens the doors to the church only to find all honest more set. Yes, as in God. And the Metatron standing at the door upon seeing God and realizing they has failed, Bartable sobbingly apologizes. Now it's a good scene.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:51

It was really good, actually. Um sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:56

I'm so sorry. God silently forgives him. The Metatron tell then tells everyone who isn't dead from another or from another plane of existence to cover their ears. And I love it because once uh she comes out, like um Rufus and serendipity like bow immediately. And then Jay's like, what are y'all doing? Why are you on the ground? They pull him down. There's like, yeah. And then um whenever there's like, all right, everybody close their ears, like, what is going on? They cover his ears. And then um they do it. Bardley thanks God for forgiveness, and God opens her mouth and screams, causing Bartable's head and chest to explode. Existence is saved, and everyone is happy except for Jay. Jay is confused as to what is going on. He's like, Who is this? Why y'all clutching my ears? Who's this bitch? Metatron's like, mouth on this one, huh? Um, and God responds to Jay profanity outbursts by kissing him on the cheek, causing him to faint with a dopey smile on his face. Apparently, um, during this scene, they couldn't get like Jay's reaction right to what the scene would be like. So you're like, and Kevin Smith's like, act like Daffy Duck. And so he just like so he decided to like cartoon character and fell down and fainted. Yeah, probably. So God walks around the immediate area for a few moments, surveying the death and destruction caused by Bartably and Loki with a pain look on her face. She suddenly smiles and all the corpses and blood disappear. Fun fact about this. So the reason this was corpses. Well, so this wasn't gonna be a scene in the movie, like they weren't gonna clean it up, like God wasn't gonna clean it up. But the church that they filmed out in front of, they're like, You guys have been out here long enough. Y'all have to clean up the street. And he's like, Okay, so he came up with the idea to add her being the one that cleans it up as well. I'm like, fuck, I love when things like that happen. Um, so Silent Bob then arrives with Bethany's dead body, which God instantly repairs and revives.

Church Massacre And God Returns

SPEAKER_04 1:18:00

Um, Kevin Smith's really good in this scene with his crying. Yeah. And it's funny because he cries all the time in real life.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:09

Yeah, like he's a very emotional guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:11

Listening to his podcast, yeah, very emotional. I remember him like his reactions to like the flash and stuff like that, him always like videoing himself crying while watching it. And like the amount of podcasts I've listened to and where he just started breaking out crying, I'm like, he was actually one of the reasons I was like, Joe Rogan might be a pretty good guy. Because him and you know, this was like early in Joe Rogan's podcast. They used to hang out. Uh well, yeah, they're all comedians and stuff. I didn't know they were like friends. But this was like, this was within like the first thousand episodes, you know, and he's at like 5,000 at this point, Joe Rogan is. Um, but they're just kind of talking about their dogs and how they their childhood dogs and their dogs that have passed away, and they're just like two grown-ass men crying, and I'm like, oh, what a bunch of sweethearts.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:53

And then, you know, the course of history happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:58

Watch Hoppers, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:00

So good.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:01

So Bethany wakes up and is happy that everything is okay. Bethany thanks God for everything and her faith is restored. The Metatron then reveals that Bethany is pregnant. God's repair was characterized. He's um yeah, essentially is like, hey, now you can continue the Scion's bloodline.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:19

He put his hand all the way on that plum, didn't he? That's how you put a baby in somebody.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:26

Um, also at this point, you have uh you have God just doing like a handstand around some a tree, and it's very funny. Um before talking, taking Rufus and Serendipity with him and God back to heaven. As the film ends, Bethany tells us shocked Jay and Silent Bob that she's to be a mother and that they can't have sex. Jay replies that it would be safe up to the third trimester. Yeah, and that's how the movie ended.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:52

I wouldn't say anything.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:53

Yeah, I wouldn't as in he's like, I'm not gonna have sex with you in the third trimester, is all he's saying there. And that's how dogma ends. Sex joke. It's very appropriate.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:06

So, Jason, what's the point of dogma?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:10

I don't know. You know, I think um it's I think kind of what Kevin Smith might have been thinking about, especially as far as Catholicism goes. There's the the plenary indulgences or just things that they used to make up. The Catholic Church so that people would get their sins forgiven as long as they donated some money or some kind of grip. Yeah. And uh I was just like that's spot on. Like it's just it's man-made religion, and what if the angels were real? And they're just like Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:40

I wish he had like what the angels really look like.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:43

Oh, just like giant balls. Balls of eyeballs and wheels and thousands of fire and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:49

So sick.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:50

So metal.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:51

I loved like it's like Cthulhu. Yeah. It's like I used to love like looking up like people's like they'd animate how like angels would look and stuff like that. And it's always like, what the fuck? That's crazy. I put that uh the point that personal faith is more important and more pure than organized religion, and that you can poke and prod almost any religion and it falls apart, but that the existence of God is something that should bring you peace and happiness, not hate, and that maybe you have to find something that gives you that faith, which could be more than just going to church that serves you uh uh or serves you the golden glass.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:31

Hold on.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:32

Um not hate and that maybe you have to find something that gives you that faith, which could be more than just going to church. Um uh something that serves you more. You get nothing from a book that was dedicated uh dictated by men who had their own political agenda, religion is not a necessity, and believing in God.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:50

I want the Bible version that's written by the stripper. That sounds awesome. The muse.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:55

Which you know, she well, that was like one of the lines she said. It's like, yeah, like I was the ones that helped help them pin the Bible, but because I have no say in how they do it, they all wrote all the women out of it. Right, yeah, I'm sure it's completely different. Also butchered saying the point. I feel really bad. I felt like I had some good ideas there and I'd messed it up by not using commas and periods for some reason.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:16

Oh man, that Oxford comma gets you every time.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:18

Who gives a fuck about an Oxford comma? Um now we're gonna hit our category the good, the bad, the ugly, the fine.

The Point Of Dogma And What It Means

SPEAKER_04 1:22:25

It's where we discuss the good of the film, something we like, the bad, something we didn't like, the ugly, something that didn't age well, the fine, something that did age well. The good? I thought the performances and Kevin Smith's uh wit and dialogue.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:36

That's the good uh for the good. I think they that Kevin Smith does a really great job of it's kind of weird but like making movies with his friends. Yeah, because you can kinda it kind of feels like he does it for his friends and then it works because they're friends.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:59

Yeah. It's um it's just like all his friends like, hey, you know that shit we talk about all the time? Let's make a movie out of it. Like I love comic books so much, let's just have let's just talk about it in an hour and 30 minute movie. Or this one a two-hour movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:14

But this was obviously a more passion project where I do like what the uh some of the scenes like the murdering and you know, I like some of the scenes, the murdering.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:23

Yeah. Oh, the murder is pretty cool. Yeah, I mean it's just like a it's just a fun little romp. Um the bad, uh, kind of long.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:31

Yeah, I feel like if they were there wasn't so much fucking exposition and two chats. That's the stuff I like the most though. That's what sucks. I know, but sometimes we went on too long. Or like there was stuff that's like, do we really need this? I feel like every time they went back to a different character, they're like had to restate why they went back to that character.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:50

There's a lot of um I can say they they kind of say what the purpose of uh Bartleby and Loki, like what they're doing a lot. So if you just said it a couple times and be fine, then you could cut some of the dialogue down. Um I actually thought you could almost gotten rid of the the triplets in Azreel. Almost didn't even need them. You could have just been like Bartleby and Loki are just heading there and don't really need like a I mean I get it, it's just like hey, we're constantly the idea that we're being uh manipulated by angels and demons all at the same time is like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:29

I do like how the demons can like travel through grips in reality. Yeah, it's so silly.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:33

Yeah, it's great. Um for the ugly, I put uh Jay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:39

Yeah, he's a rough go.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:41

I mean, it's like but then at the same time, I also find it very funny. But I it's I don't know how to put it. It's it's fucked up, but it's also harmless. Yeah. Because you know anybody could beat the shit out of him. I don't know. It's such a strange character that I I like, even though I shouldn't like. Yeah. Um but I can't say it's not ugly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:05

Um a lot of the shit he talks about, like, it's not cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:09

But he's just he just like he just wants to have sex. I know. That's why I'm like, there's no way he's not a virgin through all those films, how much he talks about sex.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:18

Um especially like in the movie he was in uh with the making the porno. Oh, Zach and Mary make a porno. That's a good movie. He's pretty funny on that one.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:28

I always forget about that movie. Fuck. It's one of my favorite Kevin Smith movies. Justin Long is so funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:35

Yeah. Or whatever it was called.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:38

Oh, God, what a silly little movie. I love it. Um, for the fine, I put uh Kevin Smith films. They are sweet, dirty at the same time, but there's like a there's a kindness. It's just there's weirdly a kindness sometimes in his movies. I don't know. There's a lot of humanity in his movies that you don't see in other movies. Yeah. Just for sure. Because you don't really see like in clerks, you don't really see a movie about two people just work at a gas station.

unknown 1:26:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:04

They have ideas. They have ideas and thoughts that every human has.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:09

Crazy show that happens in Jersey all the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:12

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:14

Um, what do you got for the find? I like these mishmashes of of theology that they did. Uh and I think that's always pretty fun. And like if you think about it, like the New Testament was written by the Greeks in Greek. And so they have things like the Stygian. Uh you have like angels with wings. Angels didn't have wings before the Greeks started writing.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:36

Yeah, they flew around like supermen.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:39

Yeah, they put their arms around. I don't know what they put one eyeball in front and five eyeballs behind them.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:48

That's so weird. Just spinning in circles like a ball. Yeah, I want to see that.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:53

Yeah. I it's like I do love like people dissecting like Christianity and just any religion, really. It's like I do love like hearing watching movies and like hearing people talk about it on podcasts and stuff. Like I do find it. It's very and just like you know, learning more about the history of it, which is it's just fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:15

Yeah, I find it super fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:16

It's like something that it was so long ago that people still like will believe now. And then it's just like, but if someone's like, hey, this vaccine will help you, and they're like, nah, nah, I need evidence.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:26

I need proof. There's lots of proof and evidence that vaccines work.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:32

Yeah. All right. Somehow we got on vaccines. That was my fault. So we're gonna hit up our last category. It is double feature. It's where we recommend a movie to go alongside

Good Bad Ugly Fine And Double Feature

SPEAKER_04 1:27:43

this movie. What do you got, Jason? So I don't know. I put the movie This is the end. The Seth Rogan, uh James Franco, Jonah Hill um movie, where it's just essentially some guys have a party and an apocalypse happens and they're stuck in James. Franco's weird mansion. And it's so funny. And they're it ends with the backstreet voice in your head. It's fucking wild. I love it. I love it. It's so funny. Their little like jerk-off battle they have. I'll jerk off all over everything in this room. I'll jerk off even harder. They're all just like making the motion, throwing it everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:21

Like when Emma Watch shows up and she's like, ah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:24

It's like we should really talk about, you know, like uh the elephant in the room. It's like what? It's like, well, like we don't want to make her feel like we're gonna rape her. What are you talking about, Jay? Why would you say that? Then she's like, I'm getting out of here. Yeah. It's such a good movie. We're definitely gonna do that on the pod soon. It's uh I don't know. I remember seeing that in theaters and it was just amazing. So Jason, come up with anything? You don't have to.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:53

That's a really good one. Uh all I was thinking of was like Marvel movies and stuff, but uh because of the wings. I don't know. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:01

Thor. Got some Loki. Thor Ragnarog. That's so good. I couldn't really think of anything. It's all about the destruction of a different planet. Alright.

Next Movie Picks And Listener Mail

SPEAKER_04 1:29:11

Well, that is the conclusion of our discussion on dogma. Join us next week as we discuss one of my favorite Marvel movies. Guardians of the freaking galaxy. Oh, a movie that makes me laugh, that makes me chuckle, and then I cry a lot at the end.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:28

I mean, seriously. Three types of laughing and one crying.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:31

The last 30 minutes like I, you know, when honestly, when Groot's like, he lets those fireflies out, that's when I'm like, after I was not the first time, but the second time I see it, I'm like, fuck, Groot is so such a beautiful character. So I start getting a little emotional. And then you know, he makes that ball around him, and then I'm like, I like sink into my chair, and I'm like, it's gonna be really hard, dude. It's like there's water all over my keyboards. But yeah, join us next week for one of some of my favorite movies, um, Guardians of the Galaxy. And thank you for listening, baby. We love that you listen so much that we want to hear from you. Oh, we want to hear that voice that you have that won't explode my head or chest open. Get it? Because like a blessed golf club? Yeah, yeah. And if you're a demon out there, don't leave a comment unless you're like sarcastically leaving a comment, but you like we can't tell it's sarcastic, so it sounds good, then you can leave a comment, you demons. Um, ooh, should that is that should be should that be our little our like uh fans' names, our little demons? Yeah, that'd be great. Wouldn't really make any sense for our podcast, but uh I think it sounds fun. All right, little demons out there. Nope, hate it immediately that I said it. Uh yeah, just leave us some fan mail, just talk to us, recommend movies for us, and we'll do them on the podcast. Um we'll do them. Yeah, so do that. Um, leave reviews, say nice things about us. Like, I don't know. You're handsome. Like, uh I bet you you boys sound like y'all should be called long rufus or something. Um, just stuff like that, you know, real real fun stuff. Um so yeah, um thank you, Joey Prosser, for our intro and outro music. You can follow them on X at Mr. Joey Proser. This has been the We Recommend Podcast. I've been Jesse. I've been Jason. Snoogans, bye!