The Possibility Mindset Podcast
Join Devin Henderson as he opens up about faith, family, and what it means to keep moving forward in every season of life.
After experiencing the unimaginable loss of his eight-week-old daughter Ivy, Devin stepped away from podcasting to grieve with his family. Now he’s back, going deeper into his personal faith, the hard questions, and the spiritual truths that have sustained him through life’s darkest moments.
How do you keep going when life falls apart? What do you do when you've achieved everything and still feel empty? How do you find meaning when there's no challenge left to chase?
Through solo reflections and conversations with guests who’ve faced extraordinary challenges of their own, Devin explores what it really takes to believe that something greater is always possible—no matter what.
This is a different side of Devin—one that goes beyond what audiences have seen from the stage. Expect vulnerability, honesty, hope, and real conversations about navigating life’s hardest questions while continuing to ask:
What else is possible?
New episodes every week beginning September 2026.
You can learn more about Devin at http://devinhenderson.com.
Email - info@DevinHenderson.com
The Possibility Mindset Podcast
#30 Craving Connection Over Attention with Juggler Jason D'Vaude
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This episode of The Possibility Mindset Podcast shines a spotlight not on what you can do, but how you do it.
Devin is joined by Jason "The Circus Man" D'Vaude, a one-man performance sensation balancing precarious stunts and crowd interaction to connect with audiences across the country.
Tune in as they discuss how to find calm in the face of adversity and the key to attracting more attention than stunts themselves ever could.
It's a testament to everything you can achieve when you juggle humor, determination and a dash of danger to push the limits of possibility...the most daring feat of all.
Available now, wherever you get your podcasts.
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Guest website: https://www.thecircusman.com
Xero Shoes: https://xeroshoes.com/go/devin
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Download and listen to The Possibility Mindset Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts.
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Wellness and Balance in Life
Speaker 1What's up everybody ? Welcome to the Possibility Mindset Podcast . I'm Devin Henderson , I am your host and I believe that something greater is always possible for you . All right , jason ? I looked over and I saw you doing something with your hand . I thought you were like checking your nails , like you were bored , but you were just adjusting the microphone uh , yeah , no , I was just adjusting , now I'm I thought he was like yawning and checking his nails like when is this thing gonna be over ?
Speaker 1so , um yeah , and like you said , we're we're down on our liquids today , so there might be a break . There might be a rough cut halfway through this one people , we're just letting you because I have .
Speaker 2I have two coffees I've . I don mean to brag I wanted to match you .
Speaker 1I got taller cups just to be like , hey , more for me . Yeah so we'll see who can . Maybe it'll be a contest .
Speaker 2I'm just more of a down-to-earth kind of guy .
Speaker 1You are down-to-earth . Do you want to tell us your coffee situation at all ? What's going on here ? Oh , in general .
Speaker 2Well , I mean , I'm addicted to coffee . Oh , okay , I'm not ashamed to say that . All right , I quit for a few weeks , a while back , and at the same time I quit drinking . I would just drink like wine , you know and like .
Speaker 1You're good , come on , come on , two chemicals out . No , you're fine . Come on through man yeah you get to make a cameo . What's your name All , what's your name , all right , this is our friend Don . Hey , don , you're fine man . That's the great thing about this podcast the live atmosphere we're in a restaurant .
Speaker 1We are in a restaurant . Yeah , it could be actually more people walking behind us , but it's just like one random person going between Minsky's and et cetera , because same owner event space that splits it . I don't even know what we're talking about anymore .
Speaker 2But we were talking about your coffee addiction , yeah , yeah , and you quit drinking at the same time . I quit drinking which ? That one ? I held on to , though ? That one , yeah , because I didn't drink that much , but I was like it's not doing me any favors . I like to work out , I like to do things . Okay , you , I like to work out , I like to do things . Okay , you know , I balance for a living , right , I was just like I can just cut that out , okay . And also , you know , cut out the sugar and all the stuff that comes with it .
Speaker 1So how long have you been off drinking alcohol ?
Speaker 2That's right at 10 months now .
Speaker 1Wow .
Speaker 2That's awesome . I think I'm just going to keep that one .
Speaker 1Congratulations , yeah , congratulations . Has that made a difference just in terms of how you feel overall and how much you spend ? Definitely , both .
Speaker 2And how much I spend affects how I feel .
Speaker 1Ooh , look at that money . I got Good point .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . So it's like my body just feels more at ease . It's like a homeostasis thing , right , like alcohol makes your I mean you have a good time and then it goes up and then it goes down the next day your cortisol levels spike a little bit .
Speaker 1Come on , man , come on . No , everybody's good .
Speaker 2Hey , how's it going Go ?
Speaker 1for it . What's your name ? Josh ? This is Josh , everybody , all right , you're just going to see , I think , his Good enough . That's enough of Josh , all right .
Speaker 2All right .
Speaker 1Yeah , so it has . I mean , I would say you've always looked good . I dare say , now you look great .
Speaker 2Thank you .
Speaker 1I think yeah , Thank you Could you just take off your jacket so we could see your form-fitting shirt yeah no , so that's amazing , it's not that kind of show . My listeners will appreciate I'm 199 days off coffee , so they're sick of here I'm sure , they're just like congratulations , man .
Speaker 2Thank you very much . Cheers Appreciate that , yeah , so I passed the halfway point .
Speaker 1That's an accomplishment , but I'm not as convicted necessarily about it as you are . Alcohol , because it's a journey for me , like it's not as immediate of a thing as it seems like the alcohol thing is for you , you know . Okay , that has really changed my life . It's kind of like I'm trying to get more energy , get more sleep . I I promote mud water on this podcast , you know and so I'm just trying to see if I do less caffeine will it just affect my overall health ? But I think it's just going to take some time for me to really know .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean 200 days you would think that's a fair shot but I'm still not sleeping great .
Speaker 1I still don't have great energy throughout the day , so my theory is that it just takes your body some time to reset .
Speaker 2Well , and how long were you drinking coffee ?
Speaker 1Like , well , I went straight from pop , from being a kid into early adulthood to coffee . So I was never off caffeine until like the last you know 200 days or so . So that's why I'm like , well , let's just see , let's give it a shot . I don't want to give up too early .
Speaker 2I can always go back to coffee when you're still getting a little caffeine , just like a little bit Totally , it's like the third the amount of what's in coffee .
Speaker 1So we'll see , but I'm glad we're talking about this , this is not like time wasted , because I mean you are very into health and your job requires a lot of physical activity . You're basically a professional juggler , balancer .
Speaker 1So this is going to be nice . Once we do , we'll segue here in a second into the topic and everything . But yeah , listeners just get excited because we're going to be talking about I don't know , I assume wellness , balance of life and all that , or this could take a completely different direction , otherwise , watch it on YouTube . Look how in shape my friend Jason is , and just looking at him you will be inspired to get outside more .
Speaker 2I think that's the bottom line here . Every time you say that I feel like I have to correct my posture , yes , I am Well .
Speaker 1That's why I'm saying it so that you will correct that .
Speaker 2Pillar of health .
Speaker 1Disgusting posture . No man , you look great , all right . Well , before we do completely jump in , just want to say thank you to Etcetera Shawnee for sponsoring this episode . Once again , we love Etcetera . Jason was pounding eggs and toast over there because he probably did his Arnold Schwarzenegger workout this morning and was like let's get that 12-egg omelet in us . So breakfast was good .
Speaker 2Oh , it was . Yeah , the eggs were great . I just got simple scrambled eggs and they were perfect .
Speaker 1Awesome man that works . That's cool . So you know , watch us on YouTube Devin Henderson , speaker . Also , if you feel like , hey , I want to leave a comment a comment would be great on Apple Podcasts . That helps get us more traction . Leave a five-star review and , you know , share this link with a friend if you feel like , hey , this is good information , this is helpful . This , this is good information , this is helpful . This will inspire someone in my life . Just pass it on . So there it is . And I gave her a shout-out too late last time , so I'm going to say it right now .
Speaker 1Ashley Stare , thank you very much for all the work you're doing as the podcast producer . She and Zach are teaming up to make this thing so easy for me , because things are not sustainable unless you have people helping you to move it along . You know what I mean . Otherwise , you get overwhelmed with now I've got to edit , now I've got to post , now I've got to write a description , and Ashley's doing all that and Zach's doing the editing . So it's been amazing and it's made the podcast more fun . I just get to show up and really just focus on you , the listeners , and I get to ignore Zach completely . I don't have to look at him . Ignore Zach completely . Don't have to look at him , no , but we're going to get you on here one day , zach , you just wait . So there it is . That's great , and the product placement we're going to do today is something that you . It's going to be Xero shoes . I walked in and Jason said oh , you have Xero shoes . I've been thinking about getting some of those , so tell us more about that .
Speaker 2What made you think that zeros might be right for you ? Uh , well , I got . I have a one of my best friends , he's also a juggler and he's got them , and he just got a new pair and I just was like in , I just had envy immediately yeah coveting thy neighbor's shoes they do produce jealousy .
Speaker 1I will say they were good .
Speaker 2no , they look great and uh uh , like the style is good and I already like flat , more flat shoes .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , awesome .
Speaker 2Yeah , I just like . I don't like anything that brings my feet too high off the ground . I feel like you're kind of wobbling on these little foam stilts . Yes , you know . Yeah , yeah , that's a good way to put it .
Speaker 1I mean , I think you're more likely to roll your ankle , which that is a lot of the benefits for barefoot shoes is that they are closer to the ground , less likely to roll your ankle , but also you get more flexibility , you work the right muscles , the shoes themselves are flexible and then they have a wide toe box , so there's many benefits to make it feel like you're walking more barefoot . We are born barefoot and so I believe we're meant to walk barefoot , and I think padded high sole shoes with pointy toes can really mess up your feet . From what I hear , people have foot surgery , and so this can really fix a lot of problems all the way up through your legs , your knees and even your back , I mean , it can really help everything .
Speaker 1It's a kind of a holistic thing . So check it out . Go to the link Xero Shoes . That's Xero with an X , x-e-r-o . Xeroshoescom slash go , slash Devin . All right , so Xeroshoescom slash go , slash Devin . Check it out and hope you join us on the Xero's journey . Yeah , all right , jason , we're going to jump in with you . My friend , are you ready to talk more about yourself ?
Speaker 2Oh sure , I love talking about myself .
Speaker 1Okay , and that is sarcasm . No , and it's so funny because , jason , can we talk about your pseudo last name ? Oh yeah , Well , because when Ashley said Jason Smith is coming on the podcast , I was like I don't remember that , I don't remember who Jason Smith is , and she goes , it might be Devod . And I was like , oh , I know , jason Devod , so anyway .
Speaker 2People get confused . I use Devod so much publicly almost exclusively , Not because I am leading a double life or anything .
Speaker 1Well , nothing you're aware of .
Speaker 2A lot of us have multiple personalities , yeah yeah , no , but I know enough performers that use both names interchangeably Okay . And it's just confusing .
Speaker 1Yeah , and so just , for clarity .
Speaker 2I use my stage name because you know people can Google it better . It's more unique . It actually shows up at the top of the results Okay . And it's just more of a you know it's a cooler , more interesting name .
Speaker 1Yeah , and even with that , there are two spellings for Devad right .
Speaker 2Oh yeah .
Speaker 1There's the D apostrophe , v-a-u-d-e and then D-I-V-A-D . Okay , yeah .
Speaker 2That's the old one . Oh , that's Okay , so the D-I I need to update my phone . Then Let me just explain this sort of like I don't know how entertaining this is , but my middle name is David , right , okay , all right , so . David spelled backwards is divide , but the only things that actually change are the vowels the D , the V and the D .
Speaker 1Yes , yeah , I see that .
Speaker 2So um .
Speaker 1You know , like I did a news show once and they just called me david and on emails , people would just switch it , even if it was like you know how div .
Speaker 2Yeah , you know , like you'll see online you'll see like a paragraph and it's all spelled wrong , but you can read it just fine yes , because your brain corrects totally people would correct in their minds and just go straight to david dumb smart brains .
Speaker 1I know , I know , and it wasn't their , and it wasn't their fault . It wasn't their fault . Yeah , yeah , I get it .
Speaker 2Yet I was bitter about it , yeah , anyway so I had to change my name and somebody , a friend of mine , wisely recommended to just spell keep the pronunciation the same , but go with DeVaad , which is sort of the root word of Vaadville .
Speaker 1Right , that's where I was like that's brilliant , yeah . So yeah , I thought it was backwards . I thought you went with the vaudeville , more spelling , and then people couldn't get that right , so you just went . Well , d , I , v , a , d is easier .
Speaker 2So now I see it was like the opposite Interesting For a while I had business cards that said Jason DeVod , don't call me David . It literally just said that , right there .
Speaker 1Nice , nice .
Speaker 2Yeah , it was kind of funny , but it tried to make light of it tried to make a joke , but at the end of the day it was dysfunctional to have that name ?
Speaker 1Yeah , sure , because people would be like Jason David , and it was like flashbacks to your childhood of your mom yelling at you when you were in trouble .
Speaker 1Yeah well , speaking of vaudeville , let's do your intro because it'll make more sense where it's like oh , I see where the vaudeville thing came from with me today is jason the circus man , divad or david , whichever one , all right a one-man performance sensation set in the world of variety entertainment on fire . For more than 20 years he's dazzled audiences with precarious stunts that push the limits of human ability true , I seen it and courageously juggles determination and laughs with a dash of danger . True , a lot of fire in there Never unafraid to ask what else is possible . Look at that . He got the tagline in his intro . That's so great , which , by the way , is the most daring question of all . Ladies and gentlemen . Jason Devod , all right , here we are .
Speaker 2Thank you , thank you , yes , you can applaud at home . I'll just imagine it .
Speaker 1Applaud for Devod . Thank you , yeah , with a dash of danger , I like never . It reminds me of the cruise when he's like never , not be afraid , You're never unafraid .
Embracing Mistakes in Entertaining Careers
Speaker 1It's a little different to ask what else is possible . So you have to ask what else is possible in one variation or another through the course of your life and your career .
Speaker 2Oh , absolutely , yeah , I mean the whole thing is that it's I mean on multiple levels . I mean just to become and you know this , just to become an entertainer and make a living in itself is a bit of a scary thought .
Speaker 1Yes , like can I do this ? Is this even ?
Speaker 2is this possible ? And that was my original goal . And , um , I was like I can , I'm just going to do whatever it takes , whatever it takes to do that , and it took years , um , of course , uh , and there's no school for it . At least , not when I started , there was no school . I think there's a couple of circus schools that have popped up since I started . I started back at US Toy Company .
Speaker 1I worked there when .
Speaker 2I was 16 , 17 , 18 and I know you've mentioned that you .
Speaker 1That's where I grew up . That was the magic shop that I went to , so I didn't realize that jugglers were working in there too . I just thought it was magicians and costume people .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , no , Well , I used to do these when I was a kid . Okay , so I used to do crystal sticks , is what ?
Speaker 1they're called right , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2Or they're also called flower sticks , hippie sticks , devil sticks .
Speaker 1Wow , a lot of names , which is the two sticks where you're hitting the middle , stick back and forth .
Speaker 2Right , Two control sticks and then a baton that you hit with those sticks , and so I just those were just super fun and I got those at the Renaissance Festival when I was like you know super you know , when I was a kid . And so I just liked moving stuff around . I also played with like pogo stick , you know , riding wheelies on my bike , running around climbing trees , a lot of solo activities , you know that was kind of the central theme .
Speaker 2I was kind of , I was an only child and I spent a lot of time alone . I had some friends , but I always wanted to be able to entertain myself , and so juggling was sort of a natural evolution from that . So I got , I went to this , I applied for this job at the toy store and I saw that they had a magic shop , which was fascinating enough . And then within that magic shop they've got like a case for , or I should say they did . I don't know anymore .
Speaker 1They're not even there anymore .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , they've moved . A guy bought it , a magician friend of mine , really Travesty , he's a yeah yeah , anyway , yeah , I got to go check out the new location .
Speaker 1Well , the new location was like Metcalf and Well , and then it moved again .
Speaker 2Oh , it moved again . Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1Okay , because I knew that . I heard the magic shop went out of business . I didn't know what happened to the rest of , like the teacher curriculum store that .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think he just this guy just just bought the magic portion like all the stock and everything , and he kept it going , yeah okay um , so yeah , but at the time they had , uh , actual professional grade juggling clubs . They even had torches yeah uh , juggling knives from DuPay Juggling Company and unicycles . They had a lot of stuff . I mean , you probably didn't see it because you're a magician you were coming in looking for cards or whatever .
Speaker 1the thing is Totally totally .
Speaker 2But I did also learn magic out there too . I know the cups and balls and the silk vanish and all the little fun . You know the cheap ones that you kind of start with . Oh , I loved demoing those and that's where I kind of got a joy , for performing was just performing for the customers .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , that's a cups and balls set where it was like a red one , a yellow one and a blue one , and the balls were a little fuzzy .
Speaker 2Yeah , little squishy balls , that would you know . Sort of compress , you know .
Speaker 1Yes , well , that's that's crazy that you and I have similar childhoods in the sense that , like , I always enjoyed solo activities as well . It was like piano , drums , and then you know , soccer juggling . Instead of like really wanting to be on a soccer team , it was like I just want to learn the solo sport of soccer freestyle . So it's interesting . And then we're doing very similar things now , like made a living off of it Because you can practice by yourself anytime you need to . You can get better If you wake up in the middle of the night and you're like I can't sleep because I've had too much coffee . Then you can just practice . So that's interesting , that that's true about you . So great . So then what else was possible from there then ? How did that develop into the next phase ?
Speaker 2Well , sometimes it helps to have some kind of model or example . And so , staying with the toy store there , I saw guys come in much like yourself who were on their way to a gig , I mean . I remember distinctly a guy with floppy shoes and clown makeup would come in and he's not in character .
Speaker 1His face is half painted . He's like look , what do you think I need ? He's not in character .
Speaker 2He's in a hurry .
Speaker 1He's on his way to work right , and he's just like what do you think I need ?
Speaker 2he's not in character . He's in a hurry , right . He's on his way to work , right yes and he's just like hey , I need uh balloons and uh some the silk and the thing streamers and you know I need all this stuff and I thought , man , he's going to work right now . That is so cool and you know , of course there were magicians and all kinds of different entertainers that would come through yeah and I thought well , you know , that's a thing .
Speaker 2I mean , you can't take that for granted , to even realize that that's a thing in the first place and you know , and then I would go to the Renaissance Festival like as an adult , like at that time , and just see , like Brian the Incredible Juggler .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2And Rod Seip and John Mallory . These are the guys that have been at the Kansas City Renaissance Festival for 30-plus years .
Speaker 1Is Bob the Juggler and Rod Seip . Are they still doing it ? I ?
Speaker 2believe they're both still there , and so they were big influences on me . I just thought they were so great and still do . But they are . They're just like legends out there .
Speaker 1For sure .
Speaker 2So just seeing them and also like they would sometimes encourage me . And then , yeah , I had a friend who also played with the Crystal Sticks , who also got a job there at the same Festival later we actually got the job there performing and you know , you just start , and our attitude , though our attitude going in was who cares ? Like let's go make a fool of ourselves , and that's something that I feel like I want to hold on to now or like remember and how and like just being willing to go out and just , you know , not intentionally make a fool of yourself , right , but be willing to let yourself be the fool .
Speaker 1And I mean it's easier if you're a juggler , since that's kind of your suitable character to get into , and then if you're going to drop something , it's more like , hey , this is fun . I can play off that yeah .
Speaker 2You know . But like you're a speaker and you know , so like if if you're a speaker , you go up and if you fumble your words , you know it's not a big deal , you just kind of keep going .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Right , or you , you make a remark , you make fun of yourself for a moment , whatever it is that you just keep going yeah , if it's not a a if it's not devastating to you , then it's not devastating to the audience . But then you see a speaker sometimes who isn't maybe seasoned , and they go up and they're just like nervous and they make a mistake and you can see them wince at themselves and their attitude going up isn't ? You know , it's not helping them , Right .
Speaker 2So , this attitude , this same attitude is has been a big thing for me .
Speaker 1Well , yeah , and I want to pause , and I want to pause on that for a second because I think a lot of listeners people are afraid to start things . Recently in a speech I said the word fart . Here's how it came up .
Speaker 1I meant to say something along the lines of start to focus . I told my kids this story . They thought it was hilarious and I was like start to focus , but it just came out , if you fart , and then I was like I'll just skip over it . But then it was like you could tell there was no skipping over it because everyone just started like you know , like this thing , and I go okay , and then they started laughing because I was giving them permission to laugh and I said sometimes you have to do that too .
Speaker 1That helps , and it turned out it was like these are professionals , these are management for a well-known insurance company , and so it was kind of like this Business suits middle of the afternoon and since it was the middle of the afternoon it was almost like a welcome . This was added to the humor and everything . I thought I should try to work that into every keynote .
Speaker 2But then I thought , eh , I don't know , especially if you do a keynote for Beano or something yeah . Have that in your back pocket .
Speaker 1Yes , I love it , but you know the thing you're talking about like being a fool , I call it starting ugly and I use the soccer analogy for it . Oddly enough that it's like start ugly it doesn't mean be sloppy , careless like you're saying . You're not intentionally out to make a fool , but being okay with dropping the ball , with things not going perfectly , because I think that's why so many times people they don't write their book , they don't start their business , they don't go on a trip or whatever they want to do , because they're just like what if it's not perfect and if you're waiting for perfection , that'll hold you back .
Speaker 2I'm guilty of it . Yeah , no .
Speaker 1I am too , yeah , recovering perfectionist in many ways .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . So , like even right now , I would you know , partially via your influence I would like to start doing some more motivational yeah , Turn it . Add some inspiration to the show .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2And that is a whole other thing that I'm having Like right now . I'm sort of front loading . Yeah , I'm trying to like learn about it and read books about it . Right , trying to like learn about it and read books about it and watch other speakers and uh , but I haven't started yet . Okay , right , so , and I think that's okay , but yeah , at some point you know you got to pull the trigger and just jump up there we've been talking about it for a while .
Speaker 1We , you know , we got a coffee . It was like four or five years ago now and we've just crossed paths since then and I know I've asked you about it because you've kind of showed , you know , some like like oh , there's some interest in it , and I think I did I introduce you to Danielle , my coach , did you guys ?
Speaker 2ever talk , yeah , and we did a little lightning session .
Speaker 1Oh lightning , Okay Gotcha . So yeah , yeah , she's the one . I , when people are like how do I learn to speak ? Ask you about today too . She was great .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think I'm going to probably go back to her soon , because at the time I was so at the you know infantile stages I didn't even know where to start or you know , you could argue that I hadn't even started yet , like I had some ideas written down but I didn't have any perspective as to what could be said or what message I could have , and because , at the end of the day , I've probably got a hundred things I could talk about , but it's about narrowing it down into
Overcoming Social Anxiety Through Performance
Speaker 2the good stuff .
Speaker 2Yeah , the stuff that actually is relevant to others and true to myself and what's not just repeated , sort of parroted from some self-help book .
Speaker 1Right . Something like it has to be authentic .
Speaker 2Yes , so I've been sort of parroted from some self-help book or something like . It has to be authentic and yes , so I've been sort of that's been my thought process , trying to get through all that and uh . So , uh , she was very helpful in giving me some perspective uh , at the time , yeah , I'm just kind of like okay , how do I steer this into ?
Speaker 1something like understanding the how to get it down into a simpler package yeah sort of like straightforward message yeah , yeah and well , and one thing I've heard too is good for in this might for be for anybody out there who wants to start speaking more especially if you're an entertainer . You're trying to cross over is just like if you do a show whether you're doing a corporate show or a show at a festival or anything in between just adding just like a minute or two of a story at the end that has some kind of point to get you used to talking more , and then just slowly start to build on that . You know that's the way comedians work . You know you don't come out and have an hour . It's like you have a solid five minutes and you just rock that five minutes and then you just keep expanding that time until you go from you know host to feature to headliner and so yeah that's .
Speaker 1But you know it's so interesting with all this because I think about there's so many things that can hold us back , because while I talk about starting ugly and you talk about make a fool of yourself and maybe that's your message that , like both of us are also recovering perfectionists and that , like we want to be perfect to a degree . So it's this weird balancing . It's this weird balancing act speaking to juggling , so there's other things that could hold you back . I am curious because I noticed that you had significant social anxiety as a kid .
Speaker 2Oh yeah .
Speaker 1And so that that you know . I know we're kind of rewinding a little bit , but can you tell me how has that played into this ? How'd you overcome that ? Is that still a part of your struggle today ?
Speaker 2Oh yeah , oh yeah , I would say it is still part of the struggle , but you know , it's one thing to have it and another thing to be aware of it and sort of almost embrace it .
Speaker 2Yeah , because nowadays I can sort of channel it into a charming awkwardness , you know , because it is that . So , um , uh , but you know , if you , if you're not self-aware of it , that's when it's bad , and of course as a kid you are just , it's just anxiety , right , and so it was for a long time , um , and so , yeah , like I was alone , you know , in the cafeteria I often had like one or two friends . I was , I wasn't the most , uh , social person , I was pretty locked up socially and I don't know where that came from . But you know , it's just a I was very shy , very shy kid and so , yeah , that was the source of a lot of like , um , I I actually dropped out of high school in large part of that Cause , it was just such a difficult thing you know Really , yeah , I got my GED , did some college as well to sort of make up for it .
Speaker 2But uh , and also I , I , my school wasn't the absolute best school .
Speaker 1Ah , okay , you don't want to name any names . I shouldn't , I shouldn't .
Speaker 2Uh yeah , but it's . It was , um , it was really tough for a long time and that's part of the reason performing made sense , because I was basically so like introverted and I was sort of hiding a large part of myself , and the performing was a way to express myself in a safe way and I think people understand that like that , a lot of performers , actors , any public figures , are often pretty introverted actually .
Speaker 1Yeah , I've heard that it's true for me , and I've I've heard that . It's pretty across the board .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's like what is up with that yeah , yeah you know .
Speaker 2So that's , I'm a prime example of that and the performing I say has been , I kind of visualize myself as like I don't know a snail or something with a shell , and the shell is kind of slowly like the like , the enamel like is just sort of slowly being like taken away over the years . For through performing and I'm realizing it's it's kind of going from like seeking attention is what it started as , and now it's sort of seeking connection , which is a bit of a big shift there and what I really .
Speaker 2I mean it's always been seeking connection , but now I've just kind of realized that that's what it truly has always been interesting um , and so that's actually beautiful because now I can , like I can , connect to my audience more , because I understand that that's always been the goal . So just through maturity , you realize that that's what it's really about , and it's been in a weird way like my therapy , my performing career has been like a therapy for me to get through .
Speaker 2And so now it's like yeah , I'm in a pretty good place . Like yeah , I'm in a pretty good place . And , um , in regards to the social , social anxiety , I just kind of say like I'm a performer now , so so there you know what I mean .
Speaker 2Like I get up and I talk to people and I say things and I make mistakes and I do tricks and I inspire people and I , you know , all the kids want to give me a high five , and even the adults , and so , yeah , it's been
The Art of Meaningful Connections
Speaker 2. I don't know where I would be if I didn't start performing . You know , I could have been that guy in the office who just kind of keeps to himself and you know , I don't know . I'm thinking of that guy from Office Space who mutters about his stapler .
Speaker 1Oh , yeah , yeah , yeah . What's his name ? Zach ? The guy Office Space who has the stapler and he gets put down by the in the boiler room . No that's like before zach . Have you heard of the movie office space ?
Speaker 2it is , before it is yeah I forget .
Speaker 1We have like a baby back there behind the gas . That's crazy . All right , how ? Old are you zach 17 , yeah , no way , you know , office , just not office space the office .
Speaker 2it's worth checking out Zach Versus Office Space . It mostly still holds up mostly .
Speaker 1Yeah , I haven't watched in a while , but yeah , it's a great movie my dad even liked that movie and he did not like the kind of movies we liked . It was like the exception . Oh , it's so relatable . Yeah , but that's so . I mean , dude , those were some .
Speaker 1I was soaking in your deep metaphors and your deep thoughts . I love the enamel thing and the connection rather than seeking attention . I can relate to that big time . I still fight it , even as a keynote speaker , someone who's supposed to be connecting . Sometimes that attention factor sneaks in . I'm like this is about me , this is about come on , clap some more , laugh some more . And I thought that I was making sort of that seeking attention to seeking connection transition because I became a speaker , because it's like well , now I'm trying to deliver value , so now it's about connection . But interesting that , though you haven't really made a leap to speaking , you've still accomplished that transition and matured in that way and realized that as a performer , simply so . I've never heard a straight entertainer sorry point that out exactly . So when do you think that ? Like , how did that happen ? Over time , that it became less about you and more about them and the connection .
Speaker 2I would say it happened . It's happened mostly in the last couple years , two or three years maybe . I mean it's happened the whole whole time because there's always a little connection . I mean if you don't have a little , then you you don't have anything , sure ?
Speaker 1um , I've just been prioritizing it more recently and I would say so it's been gradual okay and um , but it's only kind of recently been in a conscious uh , uh effort to prioritize , Like the awareness factor like you were talking about , like with the anxiety , it's almost like yeah , just awareness about a different element .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , I even . I mean I even have a line in my show . I use sometimes that it's you know , I .
Speaker 1I'll sometimes say that , hey , I'm an , I'm an introvert , you know and I'm a little awkward sometimes blah , blah , blah , you know , and I'll say , hey , we got any introverts out there , make some noise , I like it , and then there's usually pretty quiet , you know and it's like , yeah , that sounds about right .
Speaker 2That sounds about right .
Speaker 1Well , it's , I think , okay . So I think about the parallel between what you're talking about and people who might be listening to the podcast real estate people , insurance people , financial advisors , teachers or whatever it is because while they may not be seeking attention , maybe they're seeking more like the money , the paycheck , where it's like okay .
Speaker 1So if you're , a success , yeah , status or money . But it's like how can I ? I think at some point in your career it's important to mature and make that shift to . This isn't about my status , my money . This is about am I truly serving the customer ? Am I helping someone like protect you know , like find their dream , protect their dream , build their dream ? Or is it just about the short-term transactional type of interaction where it's like eh , got my paycheck , goodbye , thanks . So just in that way , with their quote-unquote audience , it's important that they build those deep , meaningful relationships and connections , otherwise the business is empty and then you're just kind of like the guy starting out juggling who's just seeking attention , right ? So it's funny how there really is a crossover into any industry about people are the important thing , right ?
Speaker 2yeah , I mean , it adds meaning if uh you know , you can argue about where , where , like , the meaning of life comes from , like the biggest question ever , right , but I mean , at the end of the day , I think it's subjective , uh , not any less meaningful , but but we create meaning , we're as humans , and so if we can connect each other , like I mean , that's where it is , that's where the sauce is , I think you know , otherwise you're just kind of like a robot you know , you're just getting up there doing your job and walking away and there can be a certain gratification there , but I think it hits a wall .
Speaker 2you know yeah so , yeah , I I definitely think that that's what might separate some of the good from the great . There , you know , and I don't know , I'm in my mind for some reason .
Speaker 2I'm thinking of a plumber , like that's , or an electrician that comes to your house , like , like we've all had service people that come to our house or whatever , and sometimes they're just , you know , they show up , they do their job , they're they're a bit dry , right , they're a , they're a dry sandwich yeah no sauce , yeah , right , and then maybe you get a guy who comes in or a lady , whatever , and you know she's just amazing . Talk , yeah , asking you about your day , and right there , right there , you have black and white two different experiences .
Speaker 2And yeah , you know , the job itself is just like I don't know . It's sort of secondary . It feels secondary there , even though that's the primary function of that person's job .
Speaker 1Yeah , and really softens it if things don't go perfectly yeah , it's like well , at least they were really nice . So if I have to call in and call them back , hey , but your person was like super awesome , you know yeah uh , that , yeah , that's yeah , they say in uh , you know a good , a good , a good line or a good example .
Speaker 2Here is like they say you know , you've heard this in magic it's not what you do , it's how you do it . And that's exactly what that means . But that's one of those sayings it's not what you do , it's how you do it . That at the beginning I heard and I was like in my infinite teenage wisdom . I was like got it , yeah , I get it , all right . But then I realized , over the years that I didn't .
Speaker 1I didn't know really .
Speaker 2So there was a depth there that you can return to that saying and be like am I really doing that , am I really just showing off ? Or you know . I can return to that saying and be like okay , it's like sort of a check for myself .
Speaker 1It takes years of wisdom and experience to truly absorb deeper meaning of things . Right , and in the next phase of your life you might revisit that phrase again and be like I thought I had it . You know what I mean . It's not what you do , but how you do it . You'll be like I thought I had it when I was however old you are now 22 .
Speaker 2Yeah , you look 19 .
Speaker 1I'm going to 22 .
Speaker 2Yeah , you look 20 , you look 19 I'm gonna be honest with I don't know how old you are , but I'm not gonna ask you but you look super young , but I'm 37 okay , all right , he looks great , uh .
Speaker 1But you know , maybe when you turn 60 you'll be like it .
Speaker 2There will be a whole new level of that .
Speaker 1You know , I mean that's , that's what's great to keep learning , keep growing , because , um , I know little songs I learned as a kid in church have so much deeper and richer meaning . Back then they , they were just fun , they had the motions , and now it's like you go through something in life . You're like , oh , there was some serious wisdom in that .
Speaker 2And so that's why it's good to keep exploring , but it's bizarre that you can agree with it at the time .
Speaker 1Yeah , I see the wisdom there .
Speaker 2But then it's a matter of depth , yeah it does .
Speaker 1It applies on a certain level there , but and deeper , so it's so funny . I think it's just meant to be . We've had a lot of guests lately who have talked about connection and significance and relational wealth and everything , and so my question for you , like one thing I thought of , was there's people who deal with anxiety or have kids that deal with anxiety . What helped you the most as a kid , as you grew up , you know , when people spoke into you or things you did yourself to help take you up out of that , whether in the moment or even as a longer fix .
Speaker 2Yeah Well , there is the other side of the juggling and everything that it itself was a calming sort of something I could focus on . I'm sure you experienced some of this , like flow or kind of being in a zone
Action as Antithesis to Anxiety
Speaker 2. This is like basically the antithesis to anxiety . I mean , they literally say that action is the antithesis to anxiety . Huh , right , so it could be , whether it's juggling or not , having something to focus on , like just starting something , right .
Speaker 1I think right now our listeners are going he's not a motivational speaker already , because he sounds like one .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , he's got a lot of these good . This is why I'm wanting to become one , because I've had this stuff .
Speaker 1Action is antithesis . Am I saying that right ?
Speaker 2Perfect , it's the antithesis to anxiety .
Speaker 1Man , that is like they always say . You know , idle hands are the devil's workshop , I think , like an idle body . Idle hands are like anxieties workshop too , where it's like get busy , do something , get involved . So if you have a kid with anxiety , get them a hobby right , like help , point them to like something that they can like busy themselves with in a healthy way .
Speaker 2Yeah , and this is the big thing I think with you know , if you have a kid and you're trying to help them by getting them a hobby , make sure that they can enjoy it and make sure that they feel to some extent that it's their choice a little bit . You know my dad actually was pretty good about this . You know , I took gymnastics , I took karate , I did BMX racing and whenever I was ready to quit any of those , he said are you sure or do you want to think about it for a week ?
Speaker 1Man , that's so great that he wasn't like no , you can't . Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2And if I really wanted to quit , he would say all right , cool .
Speaker 1That's all right , wow .
Speaker 2And that was really important actually not to have the pressure to succeed in those things .
Speaker 1But the opportunity to continue if you wanted to , yeah , just a gentle to succeed in those things . But the opportunity to continue if you wanted to , yeah , just a gentle , nudge for what else is possible .
Speaker 2Because there's always the next activity . You don't have to love everything you do , yeah .
Speaker 1Right yeah .
Speaker 2And so finding that thing that you can get lost in that means something to you like that's going to be more important than what the thing is . Again , it's not what you do Right .
Speaker 1It's how you do it . Yeah , bringing that back around , I love it . That was beautiful , yeah , so , um , yeah , I think about that with um . I'm gonna throw my headphones off here and catch them to to impress you , so that maybe you'll bring me on your jugular mac for a little bit . Did you think that was neat ?
Speaker 2I did . You can't even do that . I only caught the tail end . But I'll watch this later . I'll watch this later , probably watch that a few times .
Speaker 1Actually , that part you guys should just zach's gonna loop it like in slow motion and yeah , but um , I think about with my kids when they're when they're trying something new and they're like I don't like this activity , I want to quit . I know , and parents might disagree on this , but I'm not the parent who's like no , we paid money . It's an eight-week course . You will finish it , regardless of how much you hate it . It's like I , I don't think that's the way to go . I think it's like they gave it a shot , they tried it . They are hating this thing . Let's move on to the next thing . Why ? You know what I mean .
Speaker 1Um , yeah so that's , that's more my philosophy , because I don't think kids are out there just to spend your money . They really wanted to try this thing and they found out this isn't . And there's a gentle nudge of hey , you want to Sure Like if they're an orchestra , you want to get some private lessons to maybe help you with the bigger thing and providing more opportunity , but never pushing it to where it's like . You absolutely must have to do this or else .
Speaker 2A little bit of that Socratic method too , and ask them questions Like what is it about it that's making you Like ? You might find out , it's just another kid in that class , oh right .
Speaker 1It could be anything .
Speaker 2It doesn't even have to be the thing itself . That's a good point .
Speaker 2It's a really good point , like BMX racing , I did for a and and , uh , he was , he wasn't that great at it , right , and I was , I was doing pretty well . And , um , I did it in large part because he did it and we did it together , Right , it was , it was an activity that we did together and , uh , he wanted to quit one day , you know , and I was like man , you know what , it wouldn't be so fun without him and I just decided to quit too . Yeah , you know , because that was a part of the reason , and whether that's right or wrong you can argue , but that was . It doesn't have to be the thing itself , right ? Sure , yeah , yeah , so ask questions . Yeah , you know , what is it about the thing ?
Speaker 1Yeah , so ask questions . Yeah , you know what is it about the thing , yeah . So so what about adults now who maybe deal with anxiety ? They've found their passion , that , like you have , they love their thing , but maybe anxiety still sneaks in . So hobby isn't the answer , cause that , you know , now anxiety has kind of gone a deeper level now . Right , yeah , and so then what ? What's ? Are there practices you do you've learned over the years that help you , uh , going into , like maybe , a high pressure situation ?
Speaker 2um , yeah , so , um , I think a large part of it is accepting the anxiety , because that is the only thing that really can stop it . And I mean , if otherwise you end up having anxiety about anxiety , about anxiety , right , it can , and that's kind of what it is . In the first place , it's like a loop it's a , it's a loop , a thought loop , uh .
Speaker 1So yeah , if I say oh , oh , no , I have anxiety , oh no ah , that's same way with sleep I don't know how to get it .
Speaker 2I'm losing sleep over the fact that I can't sleep .
Speaker 1That's anxiety . Yeah , yeah .
Techniques for Embracing Anxiety
Speaker 2And so two things would be understanding that basic fact that focusing on the anxiety just compounds it , sure , sure . And so accept it . Say , okay , I'm a person with anxiety , that's actually a technique to welcome it . Say , okay , I'm a person with anxiety , that's actually a technique to welcome it . Okay , let it just take a moment , say , please , all the anxiety come huh and like , let it . You can even visualize it coming through your body . Yeah , like , all right , all right , it's filling me up . All right , cool , and that kind of allows you , gives you a sense of control yeah , you can kind of let it go , or channel it ?
Speaker 2I mean before a show . You know , nervousness and excitement are just right next to each other . They're a millimeter apart .
Speaker 2They're the same part of the brain lights up . It's the same emotion , it's just framed differently . So , understanding that it's a lot about framing , it's not about getting rid of it , it's about , like , feeling it , it and maybe directing it . And then the other thing is just to focus , choose to focus on something different , which the best thing is to focus on your body . What do you feel ? What are your sensations ? A little bit of mindfulness Focus on somebody else , ask how they're doing . Just focus on somebody else , ask how they're doing . Um , just focus on something else and just use , use that , as you know , your breath , focus on your breath and use that as like a ? Um , sort of an anchor of awareness so you can just like realize that everything is actually like if you , if you are present and you are aware that , like , even right now , I could be nervous because I'm on a podcast , but it's just okay , there's some chairs , all right .
Speaker 1You know , yeah , take all the chairs out of the room . Let's see what happens .
Speaker 2Oh , my God . No , I need my chairs . I was focusing on the chairs . Wow , yeah but that's , but those help me a lot , okay , or ?
Speaker 1focusing on . Some . People even have a mantra they come back to right Sure . And same kind of thing . Wow , that's . Yeah . Thank you for sharing that , because no doubt there's people going . That's helpful just to accept that , Because I think a lot of times we hear like don't let your mind say that you are this or you'll become that , but it's like you already are that , so just embrace it , accept it and move on .
Speaker 2It's the definition of a stigma . You're stigmatizing it . What is a stigma ? But anxiety , a form of anxiety or fear Interesting ?
Speaker 1So , okay , I know we've got to wrap here in a minute , but you can do 10 handstand push-ups . Yes , is that okay ? Crazy question . Yes , is that okay ? Crazy question . Is that without a wall , or is that wow ? So , 10 freestanding . I'm , I'm working on it . I can do a handstand . I'm not as proficient as handstands as you . If I get it and hold it for , like you know , 20 , 30 seconds , I'm like I'm rocking it . This is awesome and oh , that's great I can go down as I start to go up .
Speaker 2I just I lose balance yeah , you know what I mean .
Speaker 1So that to me is like I can do them against the wall . So I think right now it's just a matter of getting that going back up part , and I think I think I'm starting to freak out , that I'm going to flip over , so I kind of just automatically start to come back this way . So so any tips on that ? Exact , yeah uh negatives okay , you know this word .
Speaker 2Yes , yes , the uh , the eccentric part of the exercise . So with push-ups you know you've got the up and the down . Yep , the down is the negative or eccentric , the , uh , the upward is the concentric . Okay , the upward is the harder part , yeah , but if you go down slowly , as slowly as you can okay and let yourself fall . It's okay like , yeah , you just go as slow as you can , as low as you can , yeah , and that you fall out of that , and then you get back up into the handstand and do it again .
Speaker 1Go down Okay .
Speaker 2Yeah , cause that's going to build your muscles in each phase of the movement .
Speaker 1Okay , I do that and that's actually very that's actually very taxing on the nervous system .
Speaker 2in a good way . It works you , it's a good workout and your body , like it , figures it out .
Speaker 1Yeah , my kids can't do a straight pull up yet . But I haven't do negatives . I'm like get up there and then just do the negative and one day it'll just , you'll get it .
Speaker 2It will , it will . That's awesome man . It absolutely will .
Speaker 1So , man , I hate this because this is so good . I feel like everything you're saying is so rich and I'm getting to know you on a whole deeper level . But before we start to wrap , you know what else is possible at this point for you as you look ahead , what's ? I know we've talked about speaking , but what else is possible ?
Speaker 2Yeah yeah , speaking is my big thing , you know . I , like you said , adding a couple minutes in the show right now . That's kind of . I'm lucky enough to have a platform already that I can you know , a career built around performing that I can just enter in a few things , um . So that is kind of my goal right now and I don't know , I tend to focus on like one thing so you know , that's how I got where I am now .
Speaker 2I , you know , I just focused on the one thing and try to be as good as I can at it , and that's what I plan on doing with this next thing . I feel like I'm between mountain peaks right now . Okay , you know , like I reached the first one yes , performer for a living , awesome . And now I'm like , okay , what's next ? And that's for me , just again , it's about connection and adding meaning to what I do , and so far , even just by being more authentic in my show , people tend to receive that much better and it feels more meaningful for the audience . So I'm just continuing on that same path , basically , and trying to find the seamless transition as seamless as possible into the motivational half of it .
Speaker 1Awesome man , that sounds great . And , by the way , I mean I didn't really get pump you up enough at the beginning of this , but you are just an incredible juggler . I mean you could do a handstand on one of those .
Speaker 2The board that's on the one wheel , what's that thing called yeah , that's called a rola bola .
Speaker 1He can do a handstand on a rola bola . It's a balance board .
Speaker 2It's a cylinder with a board on top of it , there you go . Uh , it's like a seesaw , it's like a seesaw , but the center moves , yes , and so you're standing on that A handstand .
Speaker 1Most people won't even dare to stand on it , let alone do a handstand on it .
Speaker 2I mean it's impressive to watch . Yeah , thanks , man .
Speaker 1And then you're just I mean , you're just expert at that .
Speaker 2To get comfortable enough . I'm up on a platform doing it , and now I clap my feet together while I'm doing it , which is next level .
Speaker 1You just keep adding so many awesome things , man .
Speaker 2Thanks , man , I appreciate that .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's really incredible . So I'm trying to figure out . I want to try to have your episode come out so that if they're in the Kansas City area they can come watch you . What festival are you going to be at ?
Speaker 2Well , I don't know if this is going to come out in time . I'm at the lawrence busker festival coming up . That's this weekend , that's actually starting tonight .
Speaker 1Okay , if you can go back in time .
Speaker 2Yeah , lawrence busker festival , it was awesome um , I'll be at the arts in the park at the , um , uh , north kansas city . Okay , um , mackin park , um , otherwise , you know I'm doing a lot of stuff out of town , so it's gonna be , it's gonna be hard to well , watch for them .
Speaker 1All right , just go to the kansas city events and throughout the year you know , uh , even if it's next summer check out jason devod awesome stuff . If , if nothing else , just go and bring your kids . My kids love him and I've watched him for years at old shiny days here in kansas and also at the RenFest here in Kansas City . It's just been awesome . So all right , man . Well , I'd love to do a part two sometime , because I feel like we're just scratching the surface with you , I would love to man it's like let's go deep and let's get this .
Speaker 2I'm excited just to get to come talk to you and hang out and have coffee . Yeah , I know , I know the cameras are a bonus .
Speaker 1It is , and that's one reason I wanted to start the podcast . I would have coffees with people I hadn't seen in a long time , and the conversations were so rich . I was like let's just share this with people .
Speaker 2You know what I mean . It's great for performers because we're like watch us talk . Yeah , watch me , look at me . Look how good we are at conversations .
Speaker 1That's exactly right man . Yeah , we are all about the performance aspect of it .
Speaker 2Seeking the attention . That's what it's all about . It's never not about that . Let's be honest .
Speaker 1That's true . There's always the attention element of it ?
Speaker 2Yeah , good one , so it's so cool to connect with you .
Speaker 1Man , yeah , man yeah yeah , great to see you again . So , man , thanks for coming . Thank you , etc , our sponsor , for being here . Look down at the link . How can they ? What's the best link for them to find you ? What's your website ?
Speaker 2Thecircusmancom . I know that sounds a little pretentious , thecircusmancom .
Speaker 1There's only one .
Speaker 2That's right . Well , I saw the Strongman . I saw a guy I was like that's perfect , I'm just going to use that . So thecircusmancom the Circusman on Instagram , tiktok and Facebook .
Speaker 1Awesome man , that's great . Okay , and we'll link to your website , for sure in the show notes . And don't forget to check out xeroshoescom . I was like which products do we do Xeroshoescom ? Slash go , slash Devin , check that out . Great stuff . Go to YouTube , watch the full thing , give us comments , share it . We want to share this message with a lot of people out there . If you know someone with anxiety , for sure pass this episode on to them , or if they have kids with anxiety , because those tips were great man , that was gold . So thanks for sharing that . Hope it helps somebody
Advice on Inner Peace and Independence
Speaker 1. Before we sign off , just one piece of advice for my daughters . What would you if my seven daughters were sitting right here ? What would you say ?
Speaker 2Hey kids , you need to know this and daughters were sitting right here , what would you say ? Hey kids , you need to know this , oh man . So I mean I would just say that man , kids have so much like a certain kind of like inner joy and peace . I would just say , like , value that and keep that and understand that it always comes from you and not to rely on anyone or anything else to bring that to you . But yeah , cherish that and visit that inner peace often . Find it and visit it often . That's sustainable over time . And I guess also , don't try to find anybody who's going to fill a void for you and don't try to fill any . Don't don't try to fill anyone's , anyone else's void .
Speaker 1Support each other but keep , keep your inner peace we're going to sign off with the with what else is possible . I'll say what else you say is possible and we'll let them get back to their busy days drives , whatnot . So , all right , thank you so much for joining . Remember to never stop asking the question what else is possible ? We will see you next time .
