My Miracle Baby - Navigating Surrogacy & Donor IVF
A limited series Podcast to support couples and singles from around the world to navigate the often complex and sometimes overwhelming journey to parenthood via surrogacy. Topics include fertility preservation, sourcing donor eggs and sperm, surrogate experiences and support, costs and timelines , with a more in depth review of surrogacy by country. Industry experts, parents and surrogates are featured in most episodes. Not to be missed if you or a loved one is contemplating a family via surrogacy and/or donor IVF.
My Miracle Baby - Navigating Surrogacy & Donor IVF
An Intimate Look into Altruistic Surrogacy with the Amazing Mel Sharman
We're thrilled to share our conversation with Mel Sharman founder of Egg Donation Australia, a dedicated nurse, mother, and an awe-inspiring woman who has been on multiple surrogacy journeys. Mel takes us through her fascinating story that began with egg donation in 2008. You will hear the heart warming narrative of how she has helped bring 20 beautiful lives into the world through donations and surrogacy.
Mel openly shares her journey's, shedding light on Australia's approach to surrogacy and donation. She outlines from practical tips for Intending Parents and the vital role of patience understanding, communication, and support in making a surrogacy journey successful.
We discuss different surrogacy and donor compensation models across the globe, comparing the altruistic model in Australia with the compensated model prevalent in the US. Mel contemplates the potential of a payment system to motivate more women to donate their eggs. Tune in for this inspiring conversation that is bound to leave you with a better understanding, and appreciation of the nuances of surrogacy.
Growing Families https://www.growingfamilies.org or call +61 02 8054 0078
Growing Families was established by Sam Everingham in 2014 (initially as Families Through Surrogacy) and has assisted over 3000 singles and couples to engage in cross-border donor and surrogacy arrangements.
As an International Advisory Board creator Growing Families specialises in education, guidance and support on surrogacy and donation globally. It provides legal, financial, psychological and practical professional industry advice as an independent third party in a complex area to providers. Growing Families helps singles, heterosexual and gay couples on their family building journeys.
Contact Growing Families today to find out more about its confidential one to one consultations, holistic concierge packages and global events with guest speakers and industry experts from around the world.
Hello everybody, welcome on Sam Everingham. I'm here with Kerry Duncan and the Growing Families and today we are interviewing Mel Charmon, one of those wonderful women who loves to view. Mel's Gold Coast based and she's the founder of Ignition Australia, a forum with hundreds of active donors. She's a nurse and a mum of two and has completed several surrogacy journeys. So, mel, welcome. Thanks so much for joining us to talk to us about your experience. I'm about to pass up to Kerry and Kerry can start off with the questions to see how we go.
Speaker 3:Great Thanks, sam Mel. I think your story is amazing, so we're really excited to have you on today, and I'm sure the IPs are listening out there and other surrogates and potential donors will be love to hear your story as well. So could you just start by telling us a bit about your journey, your long journey with donation and surrogacy? We'd love to hear more about it.
Speaker 4:It's been going on for a very long time now. So I started back in 2008 when I found my first egg donor ad in the back, when they used to advertise in newspapers and donors were very, very rare, and I remember finding one on a lunch break at work one day and I initially thought it was a birth announcement and then realised that they were looking for an egg donor and initially I thought, oh, I'm sure hundreds of people would apply for this. Why would they want to hear from me? And I remember going online and looking up and finding that at the time it was, it was years wait for a donor. So, being 27 and having had a couple kids and not wanting any more, I thought why not? And I went ahead and donated and that that was successful and it was one of the best experiences of my life. So I suppose I thought, well, why not, let's go again.
Speaker 4:And as I sort of began the process of a donation, I realised that it was something that was not talked about and it wasn't. It was typical of people. It wasn't talked about in the media. It wasn't talked about, you know, even amongst friend groups and stuff. It was very you know IVF and the whole world of various types of conception were just not out in the open yet, and so, after a few donations, I started egg donation Australia because I thought that it was important for us to have a conversation about it all and that, particularly, you know, nationally, and just to bring more donors in and to sort of assist more families in having their donations and being able to have their children. A few years later, I actually met one of my recipients who I was going to donate for, and through a series of events I actually became her surrogate, and that was very surrogacy lady. Here I am, and so I've now made, I think, was to help create 20 babies with their donation and free via surrogacy yeah, wow, wow.
Speaker 2:That's amazing.
Speaker 4:It's very common for for egg donors to to move on become surrogates it seems to be, and this really when I was the first to donor, I thought I don't know if I could do that. I was. I put people who could do surrogacy up on a pedestal, but I think it comes from the same place and that's, for particularly donors, a connection to you know their intended parents so much that they can't say no to the mean parents they just really want it for them so much if they're willing to step up and become a surrogate.
Speaker 4:It's not every donor that wants to do it, but it definitely does seem to be a pattern. A lot of surrogates that I've met previously been donors and they just want to be able to help someone have a family.
Speaker 3:And now, what started you off as a donor? What was that? You were looking for an ad, or you found the ad. What? What side of that journey?
Speaker 4:yeah, I found an ad in a newspaper and it was egg donor wanted and I was very curious and sort of thought at that stage why not?
Speaker 4:Didn't they need my eggs anymore? And it seems, when I look forward through a bunch of ads online, I heard the stories and I was really drawn into some of these stories and I really felt for them and I realized you know how much it must mean and it was a very for what I felt was a very small gift. It was a couple weeks of my life, of you know, very part-time with my life, and I could give somebody you know to give hope of having a family. So it was just sort of something that I fell into accidentally and partially also was from a workmate who had been suffering in fertility and I found her crying in a room one day and I just remember really feeling for her and was she, there was something I could do to fix it and although she never went down the path of egg donation, it definitely planted a seed that I just wanted to be able to help people who were feeling the way that she felt and were struggling.
Speaker 3:So yeah, beautiful. And what about that first egg donation? Did you get to meet the baby and are you in touch with that family?
Speaker 4:yeah, the first egg donation that I did. It was. I found her out a few times. She'd been waiting for two years for a donor at that stage and the thing that I was drawn to was her positivity and optimism, even though she'd been wet down several times before. And as a donor, I think you have an idea how you might feel when you see a child that's born through your eggs. But you're not sure.
Speaker 4:And I remember she invited me to the hospital after the baby was born and I was the most teenager going on a first day when I walked into the hospital door and I was, you know, just very much over thinking everything and I walked in and I saw her and she was sitting on the side of the bed and her eyes were sparkling, that she was exhausted and that's the way your parents are. And I went through the process and I sort of. She introduced me to her son and I looked at him and I remember very, being very aware of scant his features and I, as he looked like me, just like my children. No, he did not Just remember.
Speaker 4:You know that his child is half of your genetics. Do you care? No, not really. After that, after that was over and done, my focus was very much on her and how she looked at him and how dad you know sort of cuddled into the cotton, it was just I remember feeling after I left the hospital, you know, on a really great high of going. This lady who had been trying to conceive for 13 years was finally a mother and I sort of got to witness that beautiful moment in time. So, you know, absolutely loved it. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what about the other sort of recipients you've donated for since? Do you do much the way of assessing their, assessing them, before you offer, or are you very sort of just giving to anybody who asks?
Speaker 4:I think it's um, particularly as you're going to be making a donation. I think that in some ways it's complex, in some ways it's simple. We always suggest that donors find somebody who Chairs the same value as I suppose, and sometimes donors will, you know, they may prefer, you know, couples. They may prefer singles, they may prefer gay couples, they may prefer people who have children, who don't have children, they may have Requirements where they have children at home, so therefore they need to donate to Somebody in their state, or they may be happy to travel because they have family interstate, or May just be looking for a connection rather than a location. So there's various different reasons.
Speaker 4:I think that for mine, initially, from a very conservative sort of Christian family, initially I had it in my head that I would choose Maybe just you know, a straight couple, because that's always seemed to be what I should choose. You know my second donation in I almost donated straight to a single mom and later donated to her and, and you know, I carried for a gay couple as well. So I think all of that went out the window and it was very much into a Connection and as long as I felt that they were good people. You know, the rest of it takes care of itself. It's their baby and they can raise their child as they wish to. It's really rest of it sort of doesn't really concern me, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, the rules here in Australia are that the child has a right to Extend contact with the donor when they're old. Was that's why I think it's lit?
Speaker 4:Well, the child has the right Depends on how donations done. The child has the right to be identifying details of of a donor. Back in the 80s it was very much promoted that people who were having children via neg donor, spam donor, were not no forthright. I don't know their children about their origins and what is essentially resulted is a whole generation of no secrets and children who are quite damaged from. You know how that went about. My councilor once said to me children aren't angry that they don't are conceived, they're angry that they're lied to. And that was very true. And Since my donations I've joined a lot of donor best practice groups and that seems to be the sentiment. So in Australia, like I've always been, I've chosen known donation. There is anonymous identity release, I suppose, where they get the donation information when the child turns 18. But you know, I think that these days I have shifted to not what's best for a donor or an intended parent, but rather what's best for any resulting child, which I fully support.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'd love to hear more about the first time you became a surrogate quite different from donation, mel. You've done that three times. Tell us a bit about that experience and how you felt the first time and maybe the second and third even.
Speaker 4:I think that the first time I was initially going to donate for a lady and she lived in, she was actually Aussie, but her husband was working for an Aussie business in Hong Kong actually, and she I felt very isolated, particularly with some of the language barriers, and just, I suppose, lonely in her infertility. So she got on the computer and jumped into EDA and her and I sort of became fast friends and just sort of connected and I offered to be her donor and we sort of went ahead with that and before she got the chance sort of for us to go ahead and for me to donate for her, she became pregnant with twins Wow, by six weeks, like all the other babies that she had lost. She had lost them too, and we would sit there, you know, computer screen to computer screen. They'd met each other and I remember her crying and saying what if I can't do this? And I heard myself say if you can't do it, don't worry, I will.
Speaker 4:And I think at the time she probably wasn't, if not ready to hear that she was going through a lot and it was a bit of a lifeline. And a few weeks later, when the babies were found not to be viable, she came back to have her TNC and we met for the first time and we went to a few fertility specialists and to a hematologist and a few specialists to see what was going on with her and they said you definitely need a surrogate because of her blood clotting disorder she had. And so if I stepped up and we just didn't look back, and she was.
Speaker 2:Was she Australian living overseas? Yeah?
Speaker 4:well, she was Australian, but her husband was working for ANZ so they were over in Hong Kong.
Speaker 2:So it was very unusual circumstances as far as, but you put the click in Australia loud. You guys were together, although she wasn't living in Australia.
Speaker 4:That wasn't possible by the time she was moving back to Melbourne and then to Sydney. So even if they had, they would have allowed her, but when we were going into the surrogacy agreements she was an Australian resident again.
Speaker 2:So yes, A lot of people want to do surrogacy in Australia if they can, but don't think so much about what the surrogate needs. Having done three of these journeys now, have you got some advice for what people need to come to the table with in terms of what they can offer the whole team?
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. I think that initially I thought it all seemed to be well and good. It requires a lot of patience on both sides. It requires a really really good level of communication and some understanding with each other. It's obviously an intended parent.
Speaker 4:A lot of the time I've found that they've felt so a little bit out of control. It's really hard when somebody else is carrying a baby and you can't do it for them if you're just going to sit back and watch and support. And for a surrogate as well, they're going through all of the physical stuff that pregnancy entails. You know the sickness and discomfort and the pain sometimes and you know it's a lot from both sides. So I've had sort of one really amazing journey, one fairly middle of the road journey and one really horrible journey, and I think that probably there was a few mistakes in there, not listening to gut feelings and not maybe just not following through with what I knew I should have done and things like that. But you know you've got to manage things the best you can and I think essentially you're going to keep your eyes on the goal of what you're doing. I think I'm intended parents doing lots of research and finding out about your surrogate, finding out the ways that you can support and sometimes, just you know, offering that support. And this is what I'm going to do, rather than do you want this, because sometimes it's really hard for surrogates to tell you what they need. Just you know nature of things.
Speaker 4:Probably one of the other things that I found was that one of the biggest things that surrogates are often frustrated about is that recipients, when they're trying to intend their parents who are trying to find a surrogate, particularly in Australia, will over promise and they say yes to everything. This is the way that they can secure a surrogate. When they find their surrogate and secure their surrogate, then it's sort of you know, those things sort of take a backseat. So I always suggest you know, don't over promise and under deliver if anything go the other way around and further to that.
Speaker 3:what's some practical things that can be done or were done for you to help support you on the journey that IPs could do to make your life better, a future surrogate better?
Speaker 4:I think that you know the emotional support is probably big thing Sometimes. Just you need to still listen. Sometimes Things like just practicalities of meals, especially during the second and third trimesters, there was days where I'd be working and then coming home to sort of clean and cook and just be exhausted and tired and just having the option to be able to go and get you know a basic takeaway meal or to to have that option to be able to get some groceries and just not have to worry about cooking that one night, or having intended parents bring over a meal or something for you, was actually quite helpful. It was just from 30 weeks when I got quite big and uncomfortable and you know scrubbing the bottom of the shower is difficult. Having you know cleaner every couple weeks coming in and just do the floors and the and the showers was actually really helpful for me to stop me having to do that.
Speaker 4:I remember someone once asked me well, why would you want to do that for a surrogate as in, why would they need that? And they could normally do it for themselves and they normally would do it for themselves. However, when you're carrying a big, heavy baby and a big, heavy belly, it makes things a lot harder and because you've got that baby on board, it makes it a lot harder to do things that you normally do. So just that little bit of assistance really makes a lot of difference.
Speaker 3:And how much input can an IP have? I imagine they all want to have an input about diet and come to medical appointments. What do you think is reasonable, or is it different for each case?
Speaker 4:I think it is a little bit different for each case. I think that most of the time, surrogates have had children of their own before They've managed pregnancy. They've managed it well, they've had healthy children. They know what they're doing. I think that you know. If you're going to tell a surrogate what they're eating, you know and you want them to particularly eat certain things and you need to provide what you want them to eat, rather than you know asking them to be able to do that themselves provide healthy meals if that's what you really want to do.
Speaker 4:I think it's a it's a very tough thing for Intended parents to sort of to cope with. I remember Theresa, my first intended mother. She said that she'd read an article that if you laid on on your left side or your right side when you slept, that it was a quiet chance of miscarriage or something like that and it's all the organs. But sit on set, not very, is it? And she said I had to just really monitor my, my want to message you and say what, what are you doing? And realize that it was my own anxiety rather than any. Yeah, you were doing so I can imagine.
Speaker 4:I remember I with my second recipient. She Was. She was interstate and I can imagine that it would have been very difficult for her and she. I Remember I had to stop telling her about any things that were happening because you know I would have, you know, lose a little bit of the plug at 30 something weeks and she was absolutely adamant that I must be in labor now and, would you know, insist that I go and see a you know the obstetrician. When I, you know, had four babies previously, on you a label felt like and this was me, but I think that it's. You know there is a bit of anxiety, like you want to be able to have some control over some aspects, but I think that's Part of surrogate see sometimes you just got to trust the surrogate knows what she's doing.
Speaker 3:I think that's great advice. That was my experience. I had a little boy through a surrogate and you have to give up all that control, really the practical supports, feeling poor. What can you do to make someone's life easier? Who's giving you the biggest gift ever that you can never repay? It's like you know how do you just yeah, that's support about maybe cleaning and food and and even having an agreement up front. I imagine all of it, all that worked out, would make it a bit easier to mill it definitely does.
Speaker 4:The communication definitely helps and I think that I even possibly having some of it you're written down and just so you can refer to it later.
Speaker 2:In Australia we don't have some contracts around no we don't. But I mean, did you put in place written agreements, at least about what would hope to happen?
Speaker 4:Well, you know what we really didn't? We had the very basic template of, you know, a surrogate agreement which is Essentially this country, not worth the paper it's written on if you don't have trust and you don't have, you know, that relationship what the law covers really is very minute and what somebody would consider is a reasonable expense, you know, suddenly becomes under the spotlight once Somebody's pregnant as well. And I remember I've read lists of what other surrogates they have done pregnancy yoga and things like that and I wouldn't have personally have done that or there's things that I probably wouldn't have ever used. But I Think that, also understanding the intended parents, that sometimes you can't think of everything that you need prior to getting pregnant. Sometimes you just got to Go with it, have conversations and work it out as you go and just keep an open mind and Be ready to compromise, and that's first for all parties really.
Speaker 3:You just any changes you'd like to see, the industry that would make it better in Australia, and even anything you know about overseas that you've come across.
Speaker 4:I think that it's always been the big discussion. You know, in Australia what is the best model? Currently we have an altruistic system with both donors and and surrogates and to some extent that has has barriers, as in there's not a lot of women who are lining up around the block to carry somebody's baby for free. People sort of ask what you do. That that sounds terrible, but I get sort of over tracks, sort of maybe set women who would feel that way. However, you know there is a problem with the amount of intended parents looking for surrogates and that can be difficult.
Speaker 4:I'm personally a big favour of is.
Speaker 4:It is three different models, as the altruistic model which is what we have in Australia is a compensated model which is sort of more Canada and UK, where it's sort of not deemed as payment but just there's a few costs and stuff.
Speaker 4:That means that a surrogate doesn't have to Megan, plead for some time off if they're exhausted or tired or they're feeling well, doesn't have everything, doesn't have to be justified and asked for, but it's. It's not a whole lot, but it's just a little bit just to make sure that they're not out of pocket. And then there's the US system which is obviously very much from a paid system. Personally, I don't think I would like to work under that system. I sort of appreciate having, you know, the autonomy and being able to make choices for myself. However, I'm a big fan of the sort of the compensated model, so just somewhere in between, where you don't have to ask and beg and you can sort of, you know, be able to make some choices for yourself without having to ask Commission for it. Hmm, and it would, I think it would also help to draw additional women in who would feel a little bit secure in having that little bit of additional compensation.
Speaker 2:I suppose, yeah, I think the US and Canadian, even the grease models. They just sort of say look, you know you're gonna be getting us at least 20,000 Dollars or euros in expenses and what is paid out every month, type things. They know the money's there without having to Keep receipts for every little thing.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. I think I remember looking at this back in With egg donation and going how do we get more donors? And we found some success with, you know, education young women and having conversations and Appealing to that. Donation and Syracuse are two very, very separate things. You know, egg donation is a few weeks, syracuse is nine months plus years of commitment. So it's a different model.
Speaker 4:I remember looking at the UK system and they changed it probably about ten years ago, where they made instead of a hundred percent altruistic, they put a token payment of about Twelve hundred Australian dollars, I believe the donors yet the donors yet, and for that amount like that would probably A couple days off work, which is what you would expect to be a collection and appointments and things anyway, and perhaps a little bit of travel money back and forth to the clinic, and it's not a huge amount of money. It's not someone who would go. I'm going to give my eggs for twelve hundred dollars, felly tokenistic in the scheme of things, but the number of women stepping forward To help with a donation Went up by like four or five times the amount previously. Sorry, I think that this definitely something worth exploring there and how it goes with making those decisions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it's a great idea.
Speaker 3:Well, any advice for women thinking about becoming a donor and or a surrogate. What would you say to them?
Speaker 4:I would always, we always encourage those who are coming in and contemplating a donation or surrogacy to really educate themselves, to understand what the emotional, physical, mental investment is into it.
Speaker 4:To understand how it works to not rush just to grab a recipient but rather to ask yourself the questions of what you're needing out of it, because it's really hard for somebody to be able to assist you and support you if you don't even know what you need yourself. To also make sure that's what is needed, is what what you're able and willing to give. We sort of started making that decision and encouraging girls to really think about what they were giving and making sure that they were ready for it, so that there wasn't this made and then donors or surrogates pulling out After a tug of the heart strings. So I think it's because I mean, it's a very long term, very solid. You know, choice you may, whether it be bringing a child into the world by a surrogacy or, you know, donating your eggs and essentially creating A future human, when there's a whole future consequences that grow without. And you've got to make sure that you're going into it With what you're doing, you thought out and you understand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've got a final question. You got to teenage girls. Their reaction to you sort of being so generous with your eggs and your and your work.
Speaker 4:They're very it's very normal for them. I think that my daughter, katie she was literally 10 months, 11 months, 12 months when I first Donating. Maybe even younger Emily was five when I started donating and you know they're now 15 and 19 and they recently spoke at the growing families conference and I need to see this part of their life. It's a bit of a laughing point. They they're not particularly phase. They have access to all the information they know of all the children. The children know each other.
Speaker 4:It's something that doesn't really impacts them, but they're not Really concerned about it. They're proud of their feel they've got a connection with the families and their lovely people and they're very happy that they've been able to give their part Of support. I guess it takes not just a donor or a surrogate to provide a baby, but the whole family. It's a gift from the rest of the family because it is you know, there's Aspects of, you know, of a dinosaur surrogates, actions that go ahead to do that, that require important support from the whole family to be able to find, and I haven't what you're part of this, but I mean your, your husband, must be a big thing for him to be sort of.
Speaker 2:I suppose this was surrogacy he's got to kick in the head about at home, I see.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, yeah, I always laugh. It's watching his favorite pump and down. I'm not going to voluntarily want to deal with a pregnant and green or my own. You know he's a volunteer, but you know. And then you get the comments and straight up Congratulations, mate, it's not mine, it's funny. You know, it's a conversation that he's doing, his work, conferences and that sort of comes up about the lives and they just think his wife is crazy. Now, yeah, so it's hard. It's been hard at times watching him, watching me, and you try and sort of shield them from it a little bit, but they do know what's happening and, like I said, it's a gift from the whole family. It's not just a surrogate or a donut.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you've all got to be on board.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't just do it with one person, because it's the rest of the family's chipping in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3:Totally so. Do you find advice for IPs?
Speaker 4:I'd say probably be your own advocate. You only get out of these things what you put in. Particularly if you're looking for a surrogate or a donut, the amount of effort you put into it and the amount of investment emotionally that you put into it is what you get back out again. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there. I think that real people are attracted to real people and, as a donor, genuine faces of people, genuine words of people is what have come to you. You have drawn me into wanting to help somebody get where they want to be. This will be yourself, because that'll help you find your right match. Be patient, communicate. Some days are going to be hard, but it'll all be worth it.
Speaker 2:No, square advice, I love it.
Speaker 4:Oh, and one other thing, sorry, I have always had to say this have good support of your own. As a donor and a surrogate, I have learned the hard lesson along the way that it's really important that we back our recipients, our intended parents, rather than carry them. So have support, have a counselling service, have a partner you can talk to, have a friend, somebody who understands what you're going through, because it's really important to dump out rather than to dump in your surrogate. Have that support so you're backing your surrogate and then not having to carry you through it. That really adds a bit of extra load. So it's not just a donor or a surrogate that needs to be ready to go through such a journey. I mean to have parents. They need to be ready and strong and good to go to, because I can't imagine that it's easy on the other side of the fence.
Speaker 4:Yeah it's not easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's great advice. I really like it. Thank you so much for talking to us. It's been great.
Speaker 3:You are a wonderful woman. I'm just in awe of you. I cannot believe what you've achieved and what your kindness and generosity is. It's just amazing. So congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 4:I think that it's been one of the best things that I've ever done, and I think that a lot of donors and surrogates feel that way as well, in a way that you're giving to the, to intensive parents. But I feel like there's that beautiful relationship back and forth where you're all on a team and it feels really good to get where you want to be. Yeah, it's very rewarding. I mean, you wouldn't do?
Speaker 3:it if it wasn't Amazing. Yeah, you've changed so many lives. It's just phenomenal. Well done.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoyed this episode. For further information, please head to the Growing Families website. Grandma with little, biggest thank you goes to stuffingfaceckeitcom.
