When faced with early menopause at 41, Natalie Hart was determined to become a mother. Guided by this resolute desire, she embarked on a journey through donor IVF. Our conversation with Natalie unravels her experiences, shedding light on the fears that some hold surrounding bonding and identity, and the societal pressures complicating the disclosure of donor conception. Natalie’s story, however, paints a picture of the power of early and honest communication, advocating for these discussions to begin when a child is about three to four years old.
But Natalie’s journey didn’t stop at motherhood. She took her experiences a step further, channelling them into authorship to fill a void in Australian literature concerning non-traditional pathways to parenthood. We dive into her successful trio of children's books, crafted in accessible language, which assists families in explaining concepts like donor conception and single parenthood. We discuss the reach of these resources globally, and the help and comfort they provide to many. Join us in this illuminating dialogue about the transformative power of storytelling in shaping our understanding of family and identity.
Growing Families https://www.growingfamilies.org or call +61 02 8054 0078
Growing Families was established by Sam Everingham in 2014 (initially as Families Through Surrogacy) and has assisted over 3000 singles and couples to engage in cross-border donor and surrogacy arrangements.
As an International Advisory Board creator Growing Families specialises in education, guidance and support on surrogacy and donation globally. It provides legal, financial, psychological and practical professional industry advice as an independent third party in a complex area to providers. Growing Families helps singles, heterosexual and gay couples on their family building journeys.
Contact Growing Families today to find out more about its confidential one to one consultations, holistic concierge packages and global events with guest speakers and industry experts from around the world.
When faced with early menopause at 41, Natalie Hart was determined to become a mother. Guided by this resolute desire, she embarked on a journey through donor IVF. Our conversation with Natalie unravels her experiences, shedding light on the fears that some hold surrounding bonding and identity, and the societal pressures complicating the disclosure of donor conception. Natalie’s story, however, paints a picture of the power of early and honest communication, advocating for these discussions to begin when a child is about three to four years old.
But Natalie’s journey didn’t stop at motherhood. She took her experiences a step further, channelling them into authorship to fill a void in Australian literature concerning non-traditional pathways to parenthood. We dive into her successful trio of children's books, crafted in accessible language, which assists families in explaining concepts like donor conception and single parenthood. We discuss the reach of these resources globally, and the help and comfort they provide to many. Join us in this illuminating dialogue about the transformative power of storytelling in shaping our understanding of family and identity.
Growing Families https://www.growingfamilies.org or call +61 02 8054 0078
Growing Families was established by Sam Everingham in 2014 (initially as Families Through Surrogacy) and has assisted over 3000 singles and couples to engage in cross-border donor and surrogacy arrangements.
As an International Advisory Board creator Growing Families specialises in education, guidance and support on surrogacy and donation globally. It provides legal, financial, psychological and practical professional industry advice as an independent third party in a complex area to providers. Growing Families helps singles, heterosexual and gay couples on their family building journeys.
Contact Growing Families today to find out more about its confidential one to one consultations, holistic concierge packages and global events with guest speakers and industry experts from around the world.
My Miracle Baby navigating surrogacy and donor IVF a limited podcast series recorded and produced by growing families, sam Everingham and Kerry Duncan.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody and welcome to our podcast. We're really delighted today to have Natalie Hart with us, and Natalie's going to share her story about her donor conceive, son Jensen. She went on to write this amazing book and she's going to tell us all about it shortly, so welcome and absolute pleasure to have you here today, natalie. Oh, thank you, kerry, it's Sam and Sam Everingham and Sam over to you to ask us a few questions.
Speaker 3:All right, great. So so now you know, I've known you for quite a long time now. Tell us a little bit about your own fertility journey. To start with, yeah, certainly so.
Speaker 4:I went through early menopause when I was 41. So I'd been on the pill. My partner at the time and I decided that we would like to have a family, so obviously stopped using the contraception and then literally within two months I was at home and I still remember the day very, very, you know, it's so vivid in my mind. I was in the spare bedroom just doing some life admin and literally I had this hot flush just go right open my body. I knew it wasn't a normal hot flush and I knew, because of the intensity, that something was not right and subsequently went to the doctors and had some tests done and it found out some blood work done and found out that I was perimenopausal and, yes, had literally less than one percent left of my eggs left at 41.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:Why so early Natalie? Sorry, sam, is that genetic?
Speaker 4:They think that because my dad was a Vietnam veteran, that potentially I was affected with Agent Orange, or my dad was affected with Agent Orange so, like my mum had multiple miscarriages before she had us. I'm an only daughter in my family so I don't have, you know, an older sister to or a younger sister to see why that happened, but that's the reason they gave me was potentially probably because of my dad.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wow, was it hard to come terms with using donor eggs.
Speaker 4:You know, I actually found it really easy. I just wanted to be a mum. So whatever I had to do to be a mum was what I had to do. I didn't have any negative thoughts or a lot of the thoughts that I see women on Facebook groups and Instagram, you know, I guess some of my followers from my book, where they're really worried about you, know how their baby looks and will they bond with their baby and you know, are they the biological mum and what is the donor? What's a donor mum like? I just never had any of that thought process in my mind. I was just I wanted to be a mum. What did I need to do to make it happen?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's great. I mean, obviously this episode is about disclosure and the key thing is I see a lot of intended mum to donors who are worried about telling their kids because they think, oh, maybe the kids will reject me if they know it wasn't my eggs. Is that something that you've seen?
Speaker 4:I have seen it a lot. I have seen a lot of posts with women that say they're not going to disclose to their children and ask in Facebook groups and obviously a lot of these posts are anonymous because there are DCP people in that group and they and typically they are late learners that they have found out that they are donor conceived and all the you know. I guess mental issues and emotional issues that go along with that. But I never had a problem with disclosing or wanting to tell Jensen. But I do see that a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:And it is typically they're not Australian women. They're not Australian women that are raising these questions, and maybe a lot of the Australian women that I know from my book and my Instagram page Majority of all them, obviously they've purchased my book, so I know that they're going to be having those conversations with their children, but they've never. I don't think I've met one Australian woman that has ever said to me I'm not telling my child that they don't have conceived. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, I do see this amongst women of other ethnic backgrounds. A lot of Australian women who might be from other cultures Indian cultures or Muslim cultures that they do right, feel much more worried about this issue. I think, yeah.
Speaker 4:Correct, correct, and I think a lot of it is potentially family orientated. I have a friend who is a Muslim or comes from a Muslim background and she needs donor eggs to have her family. And you know, it's not typically known in her culture for women to need donor eggs. So she's going through not only that process of grieving her own genetics but then a cultural issue as well. So, yeah, it can be very challenging.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I think we know now from the research that's been done on donor conceived children that it is important to tell kids early about where they came from. What age do you think it is A good age to be explained as to kids?
Speaker 4:The earlier the better. So I feel obviously when you have a baby and you're reading books to them, you know cognitively they're not understanding right, you're just reading them the story, but you're getting used to your story and expressing your story to your child. So I would say with Jensen, so we obviously he's known from birth. He's now five and a half, six in January and I would say from that three to four is when he really started to understand that he was donor conceived and when I started reading him my book and him really like I said, that cognitive ability to understand that mummy went overseas and an egg fairy helped mummy have him and going through the picture, through the book and you know explaining the pictures. So that three to four age group I feel is a great age because they're still very young, they're not going to have those deep emotional thoughts about it like someone at 20 or 25 or older will, and now it's just a part of our conversations whenever we talk about it.
Speaker 3:So I would say three to four would be normalizing that from a young age, aren't you Just for your part of history?
Speaker 4:Correct, that's right yeah.
Speaker 3:No, that's great. What inspired you to write the book then? Was there something particular that motivated you?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I wrote the book during our first lockdown here in Melbourne, our first big lockdown in 2020. And I had bought some books from Amazon. The majority of the authors I found were obviously US, so the grammar was different and a lot of them were from not women who had been through egg donation or been through a, you know, an infertility excuse me journey. And so the more books that I were buying, the more I was just disappointed, like they weren't enjoyable for me to read and I thought if it's not enjoyable for the parent to read, you know how was the child going to be excited? So I just was like, oh, I will just make up a poem and see where I kind of go from there. It can't be too difficult.
Speaker 4:And, to be honest, the first stanza in my book was probably the hardest to write and once I wrote that, then I then I then the rest of the book kind of easily followed. But it was just more. Also, when I started researching for books, there were no Australian authors in this space and I kind of really was dumbfounded about that. I thought, having had my son and been in that egg donation community for a few years, I could not believe that there was no book written by an Australian author. Considering how many families are using donor exalt donor sperm to have their family, so that kind of inspired me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's great. Remember what the book is called.
Speaker 4:The Journey to you and Egg Donation Story, so that's for heterosexual couple using egg donation. And then I have written two books for single mum, so single mum by choice story, so a woman who uses her own eggs with donor sperm, and a double donor story for women who use both donor eggs and donor sperm.
Speaker 3:Yeah, great, great and, as you know, we're seeing a lot more of those sorts of families coming up in the society now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. And the Journey to you, a single mum story, a single mum by choice story. That's my best seller book. I've actually just had another thousand books arrive last week for my printers, because I only initially did a 500 print run and I sold them within 12 months, so I've just ordered another thousand sitting in my garage.
Speaker 3:And how do you advertise these books, how do you promote them?
Speaker 4:So the promotion is just done by my website. I've literally had an American, I think from Hawaii, this morning in order to come in another mum from New South Wales. So yeah, just from my Instagram page, you know, at the Journey to you children's book and my website as well.
Speaker 3:That's great. That's great.
Speaker 2:Well done, natalie. So, natalie, you are selling them worldwide. Great, fantastic, that's great. And if there are comments there, there are different stories. The three books are written. What would you say? It's probably hard, but what would you say to a three-year-old or a four-year-old? How does that message change as they get older and what's the key message?
Speaker 4:Yeah. So the message is, I feel the same for the younger books, because it's funny, because I have had a couple of people say to me are you going to write any books for older children? I do want to finish writing all the ones for the younger children first. So you know, I want to do a book for families that have used donor sperm or donor egg and donor sperm, and then I am going to do books for colored families because they actually don't have any books. So again, the same books are just that the pictures all change from the illustrator.
Speaker 4:I feel the message is the same. It's just about you know, mummy and Daddy really wanted you and we needed help. We needed help to have you, but you're very loved, not only by us but by our family or the family as such, and that's the message within the book is just, we needed help, you're loved, we love you and everyone else loves you and kind of that. There's nothing to be ashamed about. So that's from these really young children and they rhyme. So I feel with a lot of children's books, even when I read like I love reading rhyming books because I think they're engaging, for kids to understand and learn as well.
Speaker 2:That's great. Have you heard your son? Have you heard Jensen explaining the story to other people?
Speaker 4:I don't know if I've heard him explain the story to other people, but he can definitely explain it to me. So when we've had situations where that conversation has come up, he understands. Like, when I say to him, you know, where are you from, and he says you know, I'm from Australia and I'm from South Africa, because he knows that. You know, I went to South Africa to have him. So, and when he looks at pictures on my computer that roll around and I say to him, oh, that's when we went to South Africa and he might be. Oh, you know, I'm sad because I'm not there and I said no, but that's where mommy and daddy went to go and have you. So he definitely can recite it. He can recite it back. And also I have some cousins oh sorry, I have some nieces that are also double donor, conceived from my sister-in-law. She went to South Africa and has got a genital twins. So Jensen and his cousins are all donor conceived, which is which is beautiful.
Speaker 3:Wow, that is wonderful and I think from my Q and older now they're 12, you know they certainly I have to talk about their friends in a confident way.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, I feel that as time progresses and he might, you know, it's not like, oh, we must talk about it every week. We talk about it when the situation arises. So if all of my work colleagues are just celebrated like my second year of business with my book, I did a LinkedIn post and the feedback that I get is like wow, that's amazing that you're sharing your story, that you're not embarrassed about it and you really are helping other women be open about it, because there is nothing to be ashamed about, like whether you know, if you put Jensen in his classroom, he doesn't look any different to any other person at that school, right? Except he's donor conceived. And there's some other kids also donor conceived at the school as well, which is really nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you mentioned at the start about the barriers some other cultures have with this issue, like Asian and Indian and Muslim cultures. Do you think a book written by someone in that culture would help with that group?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think maybe not necessarily in that culture, like I know a lot of people have. You know, maybe that's where I've had the success of my book is that I'm a mum who has been through the journey. I'm not a psychologist, which some of the other books are written by fertility specialists. You know I've lived and breathed what they're going through and I actually just had someone message me the other day and they got the single mum book and whilst I'm not a single mum, you know part of the book is still part of that. You know wanting to be a mum and needing help. And she said this book you have written it like this was my story, like this was my journey. Every word that you've used is essentially what I went through and she was just really thankful for me writing the book and now that you know she can help her little one understand. So I feel definitely having that connection of being in this space is definitely helping with the success of the book.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, that's quite wonderful, yeah, because fertility doesn't, or infertility, I should say, you know, it doesn't have any boundaries, of where you live, of who you are, what ratio, what culture you are, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, right? And it's lovely where my books have been, like they've been to Germany, they've been to France, they've been to Norway, I think Hawaii this morning, you know, obviously here in Australia and New Zealand, barbados.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's quite wow.
Speaker 2:Natalie, another quick question for you. In your case, in your sister-in-law's case, is the egg donor anonymous or can you find out details?
Speaker 4:Yes, no, the egg donor is anonymous.
Speaker 2:So how are you interested in it? I know you might write some more books later on. When your son gets older and wants to know potentially wants to know more about the egg donor, how will you feel that gap potentially Does that concern?
Speaker 4:you. No, it doesn't concern me, because I think if you really want to find someone, I think you can find them. Yeah, I think if you really want to find your egg donor and even though it's anonymous in South Africa you know she did tick a box to say like she would be open to contact Obviously the laws ever change in South Africa and we wanted to connect with her then the agency would facilitate that. But with ancestrycom 23.com you can find. If there is inquisitive, as potentially a recipient parent is, then I feel there'll be a way to connect.
Speaker 4:Yeah yeah, but you know I have photos that I can show Jensen of my donor. I have her profile that I've downloaded that he can read when he's older and you know he looks a lot like her, so he'll be able to see those similarities. You know, even when not that she will be, not that I will hide her from him, because he has a right to know, but when he's ready to have some conversations, when he's a bit older, then absolutely yeah, I'm not gonna let him know, not know the information that he's entitled to know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fantastic. So, in summary, it sounds like tell your children early three to four you think's a good age and all about we love you and we needed help and there's lots of people that love you. I mean that's beautiful and I'm going to buy your book. Actually, I was researching it and just thought as a single mom double donation. It's not always an easy story to tell, so I love that you've written a book, thank you, oh, thank you, that's great.
Speaker 3:It's really wonderful to have you on. It's just such a resource for so many people around the world to have this.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, natalie. That's great, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4:Have a nice day everyone. Bye Thanks, sam, bye Kerry.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoyed this episode. For further information, please head to the Growing Families website, wwwgrowingfamiliesorg.