Really? One More Thing?

Why is it that we just expect secondary students to know how to lead? Is it because they’ve been in school longer? Do we see them as mini-adults? Would we think this way about algebra or writing a persuasive essay? Join Molly, Dr. Eve, and guest Joey Norman, High School Principal, as they explore how the concept of “repetition across time” applies to all learning, including leadership learning.

Transcript

11.21.23 Sec Really? One More Thing?

Molly: [00:00:00] From Leader in Me Studios. I'm Molly Garcia. This is The Empowering Teacher for secondary. I'm excited because in this episode, we're connecting with Joey Norman, a high-school principal in Warren County, Kentucky. Together. Joey and I are going to explore practical ways to teach leadership in a way that flows right into what we're already doing.

Molly: Before I jump into this interview with Joey, Dr. Eve Miller, FranklinCovey Education's Director of Research, is here with me to dig a little deeper into this topic. 

Molly: Eve, I've been doing some thinking lately around why is it that we just expect secondary students to know how to lead?

Molly: Like, is it because they've been in school longer or maybe we just see them as mini-adults?

Eve: Interesting. That's probably not our thinking around Algebra and writing a persuasive essay.

Molly: Yeah. And I, I just keep thinking why would leadership be any different? We know that skill acquisition, it takes that repetition and that practice and that intentional learning through lessons and the modeling component.

Molly: [00:01:00] It's not a one time lesson. And the more often we can bring those leadership principles into their view, integrating them, we know the better the results.

Molly: What does the research actually tell us about the results that we get when we integrate leadership learning throughout the entire day?

Eve: What comes up in my mind is really this, these decades of neuroscientific research that have produced principles on effective skill acquisition or, you know, the tried and true approaches for developing skills. And as you think about the development of leadership skills and students, these principles can help guide the opportunities you provide and how you provide them.

Eve: When you stick to the neuroscientific principles of how the brain works, you know, you're on the right path, right?

Molly: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Eve: So let's look at a principle we'll call “repetition across time.” It's just simply, the more a skill is practiced, [00:02:00] the more it builds pathways in the brain that grow our ability to do the skill. And repetition is particularly important when we are just starting to learn a new skill.

Molly: We all have examples of this from our own life, right? Whether we're developing a new instructional approach or learning a new sport or a new hobby, the more times we do it, the better we're going to get.

Eve: And the key is to keep practicing the skill over a longer period of time. You can imagine if you want to go learn the piano and you sit down for 2 days and you practice 13, 15, 20 hours over those 2 days, that's not going to be the same as taking those 20 hours and practicing it over a month or 2 or 3, right?

Eve: Like it's spacing it out so that the brain has time to do a thing we call consolidating, bringing those memories together and making them deeper in us. So it's just really [00:03:00] important to do it over time, too.

Molly: And this is where we can offer students those opportunities to practice the new leadership skills frequently, right? So, I'm hearing you say not just one and done, not just all concentrated at one block of time, but it's across the quarter or across the semester, which ultimately leads us to learning opportunities across the whole entire year.

Eve: Exactly. 

Molly: And to extend our learning, today we are connecting with Joey Norman, High School Principal, to talk about practical ways to teach leadership in a way that flows right into what we're already doing.

Molly: Joey, welcome to The Empowering Teacher for secondary. 

Joey: Well, thank you, Molly. I'm excited to be here. Honored that you asked me to be a part of it.

Molly: It is awesome to have you with us today. In your experience, what are some misconceptions that educators might have when it comes to teaching leadership to secondary students?

Joey: I think a lot of times people established the perception that once the students [00:04:00] reach a certain age, leadership can't be taught. They've either learned it along the way, and by the time they get to high school, they either have it or they don't. Obviously that's a huge misconception because anybody's moldable.

Joey: Here I am 20 years into education, and obviously I'm still learning leadership skills as I'm going along. So, I would say that that's probably the largest misconception is that students, they either have it or they don't, or they're too disinterested to be involved in any kind of leadership growth, which both of those are totally not true.

Molly: Yeah, and I love that there's such a connection right now, what's floating in my head, Joey, is that we wouldn't think that when it comes to teaching Algebra.

Joey: Correct.

Molly: Right or,

Joey: Right.

Molly: a certain content area. Yeah. Um, and what are some practical ways teachers can integrate leadership lessons into what they're already doing?

Joey: Yeah, I think it's just looking at every opportunity and letting the students know, one thing that I talked to my staff a lot about, is having the humbleness to be able to reflect and refine on [00:05:00] everything that they do. And I think showing that human component in front of students is essential. I think for students to see that you are willing to improve your craft and to get better as an adult when you're supposed to be a professional in the classroom and you should quote have everything figured out, right?

Joey: I think that modeling what you want to see out of the kids in your own actions day in and day out with your lesson planning and being honest. If it doesn't go well, tell the kids like, “Guess what? That blew up in my face. Let's try something else tomorrow.” I think just the honesty and the transparency and communicating those skills with the students and obviously modeling that you're willing to modify your craft.

Joey: I think that's a huge deal.

Molly: Yeah, it's that vulnerability piece,

Joey: Absolutely.

Molly: Where do teachers find the time to actually teach leadership to students, Joey?

Joey: Well, I think that they can integrate that into their day-to-day operations, whether it's given an exam where you're not doing a lot of [00:06:00] direct instruction, but also keeping those instructional practices engaging.

Joey: I think that students, when they have the opportunity to talk to one another, learn from one another, model for one another. I think those are the bedrock, um, foundational things that will allow students to grow in their own leadership. But it also makes the teacher better, because it's going to challenge the teacher to create more engaging instructional activities.

Joey: And I think that that's just a snowball that will lead to leadership all the way around.

Molly: Joey, what do you think holds teachers back from jumping into teaching leadership in an integrated way? 

Joey: I think that coming out of the pandemic and this past school year was really our first normal year, since 2018. I think that teachers feel like that it's something else that's added to their plate. Their plate has gotten so much bigger when you have to sprinkle in the aspect of teaching the whole [00:07:00] child.

Joey: I think that a lot of times teachers are afraid that it's another portion of that plate or an extension of that full plate. And my goal as a leader is to try to show them that it's something that doesn't have to be that way. It's not doing more, it's just doing something different. And I think that that's a big, big component of it.

Joey: And really it starts with me as the leader of the building. I think it's just modeling what you want to see and just building confidence in your staff. Standing in front of them, letting them know that you believe in them and providing them with opportunities.

Joey: I tell my staff all the time that anytime they want me to come to their room or anytime they want to come by my office, we can talk, we can learn, we can coach each other, because I have a lot to learn. It's been 10 years since I was in a classroom and a whole lot has changed. So, to be an effective instructional leader, I want to learn from them as much as I want them to learn from me.

Joey: S,o I think just having that cooperation and that culture of learning and growing, I think is a huge, [00:08:00] huge benefit for any school. It's worked great with our school.

Molly: Wow, the golden nuggets I'm pulling out from there, Joey, is, number one, modeling is contagious. What you described, you modeling through vulnerability and shifting from more to different in our mindset and our paradigm. That translates into what effective teachers are doing for their students.They're modeling as well, that vulnerability, they're being honest or being transparent. And that's a highly effective strategy that really yields great results.

Joey: Absolutely. I agree.

Molly: So what results can teachers expect, when they implement these strategies that you mentioned?

Joey: Well, I think if you have confident students that look forward to coming to your class, I think that just makes life easier for everybody. You know, it makes your day better as a teacher because you're feeling accomplished, which I think all educators go into the field to feel that way. They want to feel like that they've made a difference in a child.

Joey: And that's ultimately all of our goals. And when you're able to see that and you're able to [00:09:00] see students cascade that knowledge and that leadership ability to even other students and you're seeing students step up and help others in the class with unsolicited requests. 

Molly: Oh, and that's a great space to be in. Joey, thank you for bringing to light what happens when we choose to model and integrate leadership. And of course, a big thank you to our listeners. Remember you matter, you make a difference and you've got this.