085: Giving God Authority Over Your Birth (with Tasha Orson) [Postpartum Psychosis, Infant Loss, Wild Pregnancy]

When you got the natural, unmedicated, intervention-free birth you were going for, with a smooth and relatively quick labor, what could go wrong? Well, when your baby is taken from you within seconds of being born, a lot. Tasha’s first birth took a wrong turn when her baby was quite unnecessarily taken to the NICU after birth and she lost not only that golden hour, but breastfeeding initiation, skin to skin and more. All of this played a huge role into her difficult postpartum where postpartum anxiety and depression turned into postpartum psychosis due to incredible sleep deprivation. Then, after two back to back losses, she hears God speaking to her about the sovereignty of life, and the blessing of children, and decides to do a complete 180, having a wild pregnancy and free birth, prompted by the Lord who she gave full authority to throughout the process. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

During one of the contractions and I was pushing, my water just like exploded out like three or four feet and like soaked all over my phone. And so my husband like picked up my phone and like wiped it off and handed it to a nurse and was like, Hey, can you record? And she's like, Yeah, sure. So we have video from like basically the moment after my water is released. Yeah. Until the birth.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Hi, I'm Kayla Heater, follower of Jesus, wife and mother of five children, Christian childbirth educator in doula, and your host of the Surrendered Birth Stories Podcast, where we share God-centered birth stories, evidence-based birth education, and our pursuit of surrendering our birth plans to God. Let's get started. Hey everyone! Hope you are having a beautiful spring weather week. We've had lots of great spring weather here. It's North Carolina, so it's been really, really hot. And then suddenly not with a lot of rain in between. But, anyways, I hope you've been enjoying it. Surrendered Earth Services has been busy around here. We started a group class last week with eight couples that we're super excited about. And also went straight from that class to a birth, which was awesome. And shout out to my client, you know who you are, who beasted her birth in the car, relying on the Lord. And we had a sweet little car baby on the way to the birth center, which is totally not unheard of for a second baby. So way to go. So proud of her and her husband. And um love you guys. Also, um getting ready to go to another birth here soon. Have another mama in the end stages of pregnancy. So lots going on around here. My husband, he really is diligently working on the online birth course. We've had a lot more interest in that lately, which I'm super excited about and grateful for. So if you or somebody you know needs um an online on-demand birth class, he is trying to get it wrapped up by the end of this month. Um, we are gonna do a launch special, a 50% off launch special for the first 10 people who sign up for it. So excited about that. That should all be coming out in May. But if you want more details or have more questions, just reach out to me. Um, my contact is in the show notes. All right. Well, I think that's all I have on my end. So let's jump into this week's episode. When you got the natural unmedicated intervention free birth that you were going for with a smooth and relatively quick labor, what could go wrong? Well, when your baby is taken from you within seconds of being born, a lot. Natasha's first birth took a wrong turn when her baby was quite unnecessarily taken to the NICU after birth, and she lost not only that golden hour, but breastfeeding initiation, skin to skin, and more. All of this played a huge role into her difficult postpartum, where postpartum anxiety and depression turned into postpartum psychosis due to incredible sleep deprivation. And then after two back-to-back losses, she hears God speaking to her about the sovereignty of life and the blessing of children and decides to do a complete 180, having a wild pregnancy and free birth, prompted by the Lord, who she gave full authority to throughout the process. I am your host, Kayla Heater, and I have Miss Tasha with me today. And I am so excited to hear her story. Um, it's always fun to hear, like it's like you can read a birth story, and those are great too. But when I get to hear, well, and I can see you, other people can't see you, but I can see you. So when I can see and hear someone telling their story, it just it adds so many layers, like so much more context, I feel like, just from your body language and the tone of your voice and everything. So I'm excited. So, Tasha, tell us about you, who you are, um, just introduce us to yourself, let us get to know you.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah, so I'm Tasha Orson. I'm a California native. Um, I grew up in Southern California, but now I'm living in the Silicon Valley area. And I met my husband at college in Ohio and um got married right after graduation and moved out here. And I was working in the field of like design and um graphics, and then yeah, just like working, working, working. But then once I got pregnant, then I started toying with the idea of staying home and since have kind of switched careers a little bit. So I'm predominantly just like a home mom homemaker, but then I've also uh started dabbling into do-laying and birthkeeping and things of that. Uh God is kind of starting me on a journey with that, and which kind of unfolded because of my birth, says we'll kind of get into. So yeah, that's where I'm at and what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Okay, I have to ask, where did you go to school in Ohio?

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Cedarville University.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Oh, it's funny now. Have you heard of it? Yes, because I grew up in Ohio. Okay. Yeah. So it's funny because I'm like, what was it? Did she go to OSU or Cincinnati or did she go to one of the small town colleges that are there?

SPEAKER_01 6:00

One of the tiny private Christian schools. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Cool. So that's where you met your husband, and then was he from Ohio or was he?

SPEAKER_01 6:09

No, he's from Illinois. Um, so it was just a couple states away for him. Um, yeah. But he was like the first in his family to go to college. So it was kind of a big deal. And then I yeah, and then we met and then I then you whisked him away to the West Coast. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, well, sorry in laws, but we're gonna be out here. We're more out here for his job because he's a software engineer um guy. So it's like it all just kind of made sense. It just happened to be putting us back to near-ish where I grew up. Yeah. I mean, my parents are seven hours away, but oh well close. Yeah, California is so huge, it's kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

I have a stepsister who lives in California too, and a couple cousins. So I've never been to California, really, but it's on it's on the one-day list. It was kind of on the list before we had our first kid, and then we had our first kid, and then it just we kept having more kids. And so wait, how many birth stories are we hearing today?

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Well, so I've been pregnant four times and I have two birth stories. I had two early losses between the two. So we'll kind of touch on all of them.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's start with number one. Take us back to your very first pregnancy. When was it? How long after you were married? How did it go? Was it a surprise? I love hearing the this is how we got pregnant story. The buildup to it, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

So we got married in like mid-2019. And so then six months later or nine months later, then everything was shutting down. And so then, like, timelines get a little hazy, but I think I was like working from home for like a year. So we got married, we moved to this area, we like switched apartments. I was like on the fence about motherhood in general. I was kind of at a spot in my life where I'm like, I don't know if I want kids at all. I was like dealing with a lot of like mental stuff that was making me think that it would be a terrible idea to bring children into the world. And I was not really trusting God. I was, yeah, not surrendered to God kind of at all at that point in my life, but I did have this idea that, like, well, maybe kids wouldn't be so bad and we'll like be open to it. And the one thing on my mind was like, oh, well, it'd be nice if we had a house. Like, I don't want to like be open to kids until we have a house. That was just like one thing on my mind. I was not expecting to be able to get a house for like several years. And then the Lord just worked in his mysterious ways, and we were able to move into this house in the end of 2020. Um, and then within a few weeks, I was realizing I'm like, well, that that was my only like qualifier for starting to have kids. So I guess I'll So I guess we can do it now.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Yeah, yeah. That's funny. That's my sister's only qualifier too. And she just bought a house. So I'm like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Yay, we're ready. Yeah, I had an IUD um and I got that taken out because it was like make like my periods were getting weird. And so I was like, is that because of that? And also I was just like ready to get hormones out of my body, just starting to like, yeah, realize things. And um, so I like got that removed. Um and then I like had one cycle and then got pregnant. And so it was very I I think I wasn't expecting it to happen that fast because I just like hear a lot of stories of struggling to get pregnant or like waiting. Yeah. And so I was very thankful that it happened so fast, but it also felt like a rush into things because I'm like, oh, okay, I thought that might take a little longer, but cool, I'm pregnant. Then I just started thinking about like, oh, this means like I have to go to the doctor and like, wait, how many, why do we have to like go to all these different doctor's appointments? How many doctors' appointments do I have to go to in pregnancy? Like I just started having all these things. So then like, I've only like ever been to the like to the doctor just like for like annual well visits. Like, I'm not, I don't really get sick enough to justify going to the doctor. Like, yeah, one time I went to the hospital because I had an allergic reaction to a bee sting, and that was like the only time I've been in a hospital, and so I don't have a lot of experience with hospitals, and but just like with how I was raised, it was just normal to plan a hospital birth and have all the traditional OB care. And if you're like not doing that, then you're a negligent parent, is what I was kind of thinking. And so I was very much in a in a people-pleasing kind of stage of life and not in a God-fearing stage of life more. And so I'm like, okay, I have to do all the right things so that no one will tell me I'm a bad mom if I didn't do something or whatever. So I just kind of like jumped into I started looking at my options. I was like, okay, who can oversee a pregnancy? And I saw obstetricians, midwives, and um, then I read on just on Google that, like, oh, some family doctors will um supervise pregnancy. And I'm like, oh, that sounds kind of nice. Like it's still good to like have a doctor, but maybe um they'll just be a little more still about it. And so I like called my provider and was like, hey, like, can I just do prenatal care with you? And she's like, no, you have to see an OB. I'm like, okay. So she like sent me to her OB. And it was just kind of like typically going on the care provider route, but I really just at the time of pregnancy, like my first thoughts were like, Why do I have to do all these things? Like, I just remember being like so just like a little confused when I found myself pregnant and I was like realizing how much was kind of expected of me at that point. It was just immediate anxiety, basically. As soon as I like started thinking about like tests and observations and things, I was just like a little put off by it, but I still just continued in that realm and like set up an appointment with. I also was like expecting them to be a little congratulatory or something, but it was very much just like deadpan. I'm just like, hey, I took a pregnancy test and it's positive. Like, when can I come in for an appointment? She was like, We have availability. It well, if she asked like for my LMP, and then was like, We have availability in two weeks, you can come in, blah, blah, blah. Just like very not like, congratulations, nothing of that. So it was kind of almost felt defeating from like the first just like interaction with the like prenatal care. And but I just continued anyway because it was what I was what I thought I was supposed to do, and it seemed all yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I and I just like heard stories of like fear and pain and just like just all the things that can go wrong in a pregnancy. I'd like heard stories of, and so I was uh just doing all the things I thought I was supposed to do to avoid all those, yeah, not really knowing any better. I'm like, okay, I know nothing here, and I'm gonna go to these experts, not really thinking about like values alignment or like anything of that nature.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Yeah. So did you continue seeing them throughout your whole pregnancy then?

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Yeah. Um, so I continued with the OB office, and it was like a group. So I was seeing a basically a different person every appointment that I had, which also felt a little weird. And um, but I continued with them till like 30, I forget if it was 30 or 32 weeks, I decided to switch um because I had started preparing more for birth. And so I took a hypno-birthing class, and the teacher of that class um recommended there's a group of midwives at the hospital or at a slightly different hospital. And so I ended up switching to their care um for the last couple months of pregnancy. And I'm glad I did. Like it's never too late to switch care providers. Um, and so that was definitely a step in the right direction for me. I at one point I had wanted, I had toyed with the idea of home birth because I had like kind of heard about it and it sound sounded more like in my natural inclination of things of like, why do we have to go to the police doctor's appointments? Why can't I just do it at home like everyone else? But then I also didn't know enough about that. And I had like floated it to at one of my OB appointments, I like floated the idea and kind of just got like fear-mongered, basically saying that my baby would die if I tried to birth at home. Um, and so I was like, oh, okay, well, at least so that kind of like really solidified me into like having a hospital birth because of that fear. Um but then I was like, well, I can at least switch to the midwives and have more of that approach that I'm finding myself aligned with.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah. So did you did it go better with the midwives then?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yeah, yeah. I felt really supported um at the time. I think I wish I had switched earlier and had a little more because I ended up only having like one or two appointments with each midwife before I gave birth. So it would have been nice to know them a little more. Um, but I think it still ended up going, yeah. I I liked my um little bit of pregnancy care with them.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Um it's good. I'm glad you made the decision to switch providers. And you're right, it's never too late, never too late to switch providers. So much so. I had a client, gosh, last month, and we switched at 42 weeks. Yeah. On the dot. So yeah, never too late.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

So, how okay, well, how was your pregnancy? Did it go okay? Like, were there any like complications or anything?

SPEAKER_01 15:54

It was pretty straightforward. Um, and yeah, I mean, like, I just had the typical morning sickness. So, like the day that I took a test, I threw up like two hours later or something. So I'm like, okay, starting off strong. Yeah. Um, and just kind of had the typical like morning sickness and whatever. Yeah, everything seemed everything was normal. Um, at my like 20-week anatomy scan, they um scheduled me to come back for two more ultrasounds because they were like, oh, we think you might have like your cervix is a little short. So then I was like for a couple weeks very anxious about that. Like, oh, am I going to because I had a friend who um had a short cervix and premature birth and stuff. And so I was like, Oh, is that gonna be my story now too? What's going on? Yeah. And eventually they were like, Nah, you're probably fine. Um, and I'm like, oh, okay, that was just a lot of stress and then unnecessary stress, yeah. Um, and so I just, yeah, the pregnancy was just yeah, unremarkable, I would say. I think there was a lot of just like I I wasn't letting myself enjoy the pregnancy though, because again, I was dealing with like I just had these fears of um complications and loss, and just I was almost like assuming that I was going to have a bad story, that I was just like not letting myself enjoy the pregnancy. It was a really not good time for me, like mentally. I think I could have like let myself enjoy it, but I think I've come, I've switched a lot in just my faith walk now, too, of just like enjoying everything as a mo like in the moment that it's in and not just like assuming that everything's gonna be terrible. Um yeah, motherhood and matrescence just really helped me a lot mentally, kind of surrendering things over to the Lord. But um, yeah, uh yeah. So I wasn't really enjoying the pregnancy, but other than that, it was very fine and normal and everything was good.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

So that was good. Yeah. So how did labor start and when did it start? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

I it kind of I had some a little bit of prodromal, like a couple, like a few times where I'd like to have some contractions and like not, but um wasn't really sure. And then I had like a bloody show on a Friday, and I like called the midwife's office. I was like, oh, I had a bloody show, and they're just like, cool, probably gonna be a few days still, so just hang tight. I'm like, okay. And so I did, just like got through the weekend, and then I had a um an appointment scheduled for Monday. Um, and all of Monday I was just like taking it really easy, but I kind of also forgot to eat and drink. I was kind of just like laying in bed and kind of just like waiting for the appointment, which was like at 3 45 p.m. So I really should have been doing more in that day, maybe to uh prepare. But I was just resting, which was also good. Um, but by the time we got to the appointment, I was having contractions like pretty regularly. Um, and it was like over the course of the appointment where I'm like, yeah, I'm I'm I think I'm in labor, but I also wasn't ready to like accept that until someone told me I was. So like having regular contractions, like going through a non-stress test. And I remember I had my airpods in and um the guy doing the ultrasound, I could I heard the ultrasound in my airpods when it was like angled towards them. It was really weird. It's just like this like super high pitched, like like wow. Yeah, that was a weird moment. I'm like, oh, I'm hearing the ultrasound waves and no one else is right now. Um, she was like moving around, not having a great time, but it's fine. Yeah, so I like heard that and but basically, yeah, over the course of that appointment, um, by the end of it, my midwife was like, Do you want me to check you? And I'm like, Yeah, probably. Because we were like all otherwise.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

I think why were you having an ultrasound?

SPEAKER_01 20:05

They were just because I was 40 weeks and five days, and um, so it was just a typical nonstress test thing by a physical profile, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

So yeah, yeah, gotcha. But I assume I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah, everything seemed fine.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

She was I I think they guessed that she'd be like seven pounds something, and she ended up over eight pounds. So I'm like, well, not exactly accurate, but it's fine. Yeah, those never are. Yeah.

unknown 20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

So we did that, and yeah, so by the time we were like getting ready to leave for the appointment, my midwife offered to check me. I'm like, eh, yeah, sure. And so she did. And she was she like looked over at my husband and like winked at him, but he didn't pick up what was what she was putting down. But she was like, You're five centimeters, you're having a baby tonight. Like, go head over to the hospital next door. I'm like, Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Oh, instead of just going home?

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Yeah, yeah, because I was like at five centimeters already. Um, she was just like, Well, you might as well like go over, and which was probably good because it I would have been uncomfortable getting in the car and driving the 25 minutes home.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Um, and then the 25 minutes back and then back, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Yeah, yeah. It would have been, wouldn't that have been very fun? Um, so she was like, Yeah, go check in.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

How far apart were your contractions at that point?

SPEAKER_01 21:26

I was kind of timing them. I don't know if I was timing them at that point, but like I think three to five minutes. Okay. Um yeah, we were at the appointment for like an hour, and it was like they were definitely getting closer and closer to together like over the course of that hour.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

So you were going into active labor as you're there. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Definitely. And so we headed over to the hospital and um got checked in, but of course I like had to wear a mask, and I could and my husband had to wear a mask, and then we had yeah, and I had like I wanted to use the labor tub. The hospital offered a labor tub, but not burning tub specifically. And I'm like, well, but I want to use the water, but because of things, they were like, Oh, well, you have to pass a rapid test. Um, you have to have a negative rapid test before we'll let you go in the tub. I'm like, okay. Rapid tests for wet for COVID. And so they came and like did the test and like took it back. And we thought it'd be, you know, a rapid test, but it was like two, two and a half hours later. And my husband was like, had kept asking him, like, hey, can she like go in the tub now? And they're like, Oh, we're still waiting for the test results. And like, I guess they never actually got the test results back, but eventually my husband was just irritating enough that they're like, Okay, yeah, she can go in the tub. Um somehow that was nice to finally get in there and it was just so relaxing. I love being in the tub. Um, and like, yeah, laboring was nice. I was just like with my husband. I did a lot of like kind of slow dancing, bouncing on the ball, and just had like chill music playing. And yeah, so by the time we got to the tub, um, then I started transitioning in the tub. Um, so I'm very thankful that I got there for that time because I think that was very, very helpful. Um, and I wanted to just like stay in there, but then I started feeling a little bit pushy and I mentioned it to my midwife. Um, and she was like, Okay, then we have to get up and get out of here. Get on and out, get down to the room. I'm like, oh, okay. So, and at that point, I'm just like in labor land. Like, of course, I'm like about ready to push. So my mind is you just kind of go along with whatever they're having you do at that point. Yeah. So they like wheeled me down the hall and like weighed me back on the bank.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

You're not in the same room that you're going to have your baby in.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Yeah, the birth tub is just its own little like coat closet kind of thing in the hallway of the hospital.

unknown 23:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

So there's like a shower in each room, but the the tub, there's only one tub and it's um, yeah, like just down the hall. So I like I've never heard of that ever.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Yeah. I mean, maybe in like 1980, but even then they didn't have tubs. So wow. So you did not deliver in the room that you were laboring in.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

No, I I ended up uh so I had labored in the room and then we went down to the hall to the tub.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Oh, and then you went back to that to the room, yeah, for the delivery.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah, once I got started getting pushy. And yeah. Um, and so I just kind of yeah, they wheeled me back, laid me on the bed. I had like thought, like, oh, it'd be fun to, I don't know, maybe birth not on my back, like, because I'd prepared and I was like, oh yeah, we can like do different positions. But at that point, and like I had mentioned, I'd not been eating and drinking, and so I was like a little dehydrated. I was able, they were um pretty accommodating with my birth plans as far as like not um even I didn't have a heplock like IV port or anything, so I was had complete freedom of movement, except for the nurse who was being borrowed from a high-risk hospital who had never seen an unmodicated birth before and didn't have anything else to do, and so was just constantly adjusting the little telemetry unit.

unknown 25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

And I'm just like, can you just get your hands off me? I I appreciate that you want to do your job. I just don't want it done right now. Um, but yeah, so uh yeah, and started pushing and yeah, I was kind of like laying on my back, but then also did like sideline. My midwife was kind of like coaching me through some stuff and and she like coached me how to push, and my waters were still intact, and so I had to like push to burst my own waters, basically, which was very interesting. So since I was like laying sideline, whatever I was on the bed and my phone was like at the end of the bed, but when like during one of the contractions and I was pushing, my waters just like exploded out like three or four feet and like soaked all over my phone. And so my husband like picked up my phone and like wiped it off and handed it to a nurse and was like, Hey, can you record? And she's like, Yeah, sure. So we have video from like basically the moment after my water is released, yeah, until the birth.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

And so they let you record the birth in the hospital? Yeah, well, that's cool. They don't let you do that around here, they're very like very like you will not record the birth because of viability reasons, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Yeah, it was just like an in-the-moment thing. They seemed fine with it though. So, I mean, the nurse was the one holding the phones.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Well, then that's great. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

So they I uh so the the video is uh like seven minutes long, so it was like seven minutes from um bursting the waters to her emerging. Um, and I remember it just being like the most intense moment of my life. I think I I didn't have the confidence in my like own body at all to be like, oh yeah, it'll just do its thing. And I grew up playing sports, and so I'm like very used to coaching, and so I was kind of drawn to the idea of coach pushing by my midwife and was just like listening to her, but it was kind of intense just having four-letter words yelled at you. Um and yeah, so it baby came out and she was like fine and moving, but everything happened really fast. Um, and this is where like the details get a little bit fuzzy because she came out. I like felt her head as she was emerging, her like head emerged, and then um on the next contraction, my midwife had to like free a nuclear, yeah. She had like a nuclear arm hand situation. Um, but she like yeah, baby came out, was placed on my chest, and I was like super excited, and then like within a few, it felt like within seconds, like I I was still very much just like landing. Um and like I know my husband got to kind of like help catch her and put her on me. So I'm not exactly sure of the timeline, but basically she got taken, like he cut the cord, they clamped and cut the cord. Trying to do like a delayed, yeah. It was supposed to be a delayed, and I think it was delayed like maybe a minute. Um but it seemed like everything like just happened, so yeah, because they clamped and cut, and then as soon as the cord was cut, then she started going floppy. Um and so I think she wasn't ready to have the cord cut. And so then that just kind of led to her being taken off of me over to the warmer so that they could do their things like looking back, everything that they did absolutely could have been done on my chest. Um, but it was at that point, kind of once the baby's out, then it's all the other staff is also responsible. It's not just like the midwife who's caring for me at that point. And so it almost becomes out of her control because other people just like step in to care for the baby. So I don't yeah, I like looking back, I understand it's just like this is what happens if you birth in a hospital is that other people have the authority to come in and do things, even if it's not what you would do, and it's also just can happen very fast. And yeah, so it's just all happened very fast, where it's just suddenly like my baby's being taken away, and I'm like, why is this happening? I don't know. Um, and so my husband goes over to the warmer with the baby, and like within a few minutes, I think they like rolled her down to NICU, so then she went or he went with her. Um, and so I'm just there with my midwife, and I think because of I also like had the shakes, which I had not been warned about. So I was just like uncontrollably shaking. I think yeah, yeah. I don't I know it's like normal, but then I think in my case it was a maybe a lot related to the fact that my baby wasn't on me anymore.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Um, and then I had also wanted to do just like a normal placenta um delivery, but then my midwife was concerned with bleeding and so gave me Pitocin for third stage management. And it just all seemed like it was happening really fast. Um and yeah, just kind of like slipped. I'm like, oh, okay, so husband went with baby to NICU, and then I'm bleeding more than like yeah, so I'm by myself with this midwife that I've met three times. Um, and so she like gives me Pitocin um to deliver the placenta, and I had a bit of a tear, and so she stitched that up and stuff, but it was just a really weird moment of like trying to ground myself after like just delivering a baby, and then also being like, where is my baby? And also just like, why am I here? Like, what is going on? There was a lot of confusion and stuff in the moment that I think it ended up manifesting kind of as like a trauma story, and I'm like still working on figuring it out a little bit. I think I've processed it a lot, um, but I'm still just kind of like, why did that need to happen? It it just all felt very, very dramatic for what was otherwise a very normal birth. And because I had been like dehydrated and stuff during labor, I like I threw up a few times in labor too. When I like realized I'm like, oh, I am in labor, I should like eat and drink some things. I like did that, but then everything was just coming back up because of how far along I was. So I was quite dehydrated, and so then they were like, oh, well, now we really need to give you an IB like baby's out, like everything's good. I'm like, okay, so then eventually like tried a few different um ways, but my veins were like pretty deflated, and um, so it was hard for them to get it stuck, but eventually they did, and um yeah, so it was just it just became very medical very suddenly. And I had prepared a lot for the birth and felt like pretty confident in that. And I kind of assumed all the postpartum stuff would just like come naturally, but then it also just kind of got thrown on its head with how the birth went because I felt so so powerful like through the birth of like starting to trust of like, oh yeah, God designed my body to do this, this is what women are made to do, and all is good. And then it just yeah, everything just got weird suddenly.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Um so why did she go to the NICU?

SPEAKER_01 32:59

She went to NICU just low apgar score, basically.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

Um couldn't like observe that in the room?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yeah, so they put her on oxygen. Um, so she yeah, I guess low apgar combined with like mucus C. So they were suctioning um a lot out of her. She had oh yeah, they did say like a number at some point. I think they said like 40 milliliters of fluid or something. That may not be accurate, but that's like the number I remember. Um, and they made it sound like it was an unusual amount. Yeah, I I think I've since like kind of radicalized a lot in birth. And so I have like a lot of critiques kind of of my first birth story and just like how things went down that I'm like now I wouldn't agree with it at the time. It's what was happening and made sense. Um so yeah, so they were just like suctioning a lot of fluid and got her on oxygen because her um O2 sats were a little lower than they would like. But again, I think it's something that I like had I known, like I probably could have suctioned her myself with my mouth and it'd been a little less invasive than like the blue bulb thing. And if she like really needed help breathing, I could have helped her with that a little bit. Um, yeah. And so I and like once I took her to the NICU, um, they also did a variety of other tests, including like a couple x-rays, just to make sure that there wasn't a bowel obstruction. And it it almost felt like they were looking for a reason to like kind of justify the NICU. Yeah. And there wasn't anything. And of course, like due due diligence, but it because there ultimately was no reason, it felt like really just confusing and rough of like actually just how she was was pretty normal, and she just needed a little bit of help. She didn't need to be completely separated from me for all of that to happen.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

So when did you get to see her again?

SPEAKER_01 35:02

It was a couple hours until I saw her. Um, and then but I didn't actually try breath. So like I visited her in the NICU, but because she had like tubes and oxygen masks and stuff, I couldn't breastfeed her immediately. So I had to initiate breastfeeding with pumping. So I like pumped some colostrum and we like syringe fed it to her. Um and I finally got to try latching, I think when she was like 14 hours old. Um, yeah, we had absolutely no golden hour and yeah, it took a while to like because she was like born in the middle of the night or like 10 45 p.m. And then the lactation consultants don't come on until day shift. And so it was kind of the whole night of like the um the postpartum nurses were like helping me with the pumping initiation. Um but then I didn't have the confidence to like ask, and yeah, I don't know. They were just like waiting for people to say that things that I could breastfeed my baby. I don't know. It was it was weird.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

So when did she leave? Did she stay in the NICU then and you had to keep visiting her? Or like when was she able to join you again?

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah, so she was in the NICU all night, and then yeah, the next day in like the afternoon is when I got to try breastfeeding. Um, and it was short. I think I only nursed her like once or twice in the NICU, and then she was dismissed. So it was like later that afternoon that they were like, okay, yeah, there's nothing wrong. Um, and they had like a neonatologist come by and check the x-rays and make sure everything was fine. Um, and I think she she was like stable and fine, and like the NICU nurses had told us that she was fine, I think the first or second time I visited. So by like the early morning hours, she totally could have. I mean, she could she could have been with us kind of the whole time, is my understanding, but especially just like given the numbers. Um, she could have been with us even um earlier in the morning, but because they had to wait for the neonatologist to come by and like approve um her dismissal or whatever discharge from the NICU. So it was more just like waiting on the paperwork and official signatures and things rather than having us together.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

I'm really sorry. Yeah, gosh. What a hospital thing to do, though. Yeah. I mean, I was just listening to an episode of uh Down to Birth. I don't know if you ever listened to that. I've heard of it, yeah. Um, and they were telling a story of um of it was all about n unnecessary Nick use days and about how you know this person stayed for this many days, but insurance only approved this many days. And so then they had to pay out of pocket for the extra days that they didn't even need, you know what I mean? Like because they the insurance company deemed that it was unnecessary for the baby to be in there, but yet the doctors wouldn't release the baby out of there. Like, you know, just like craziness, like um and then people staying in the NICU from the hospital standpoint so they could charge you for it. Like it was just like in in insanity. Insanity. Like I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

And they got away with it because it they're they're doing their best, which I like agree with, but it also just kind of depends. It is a subjective thing too, of like the best for who and like like whose interests are you serving. Um and unfortunately, because of uh yeah, just the way things are structured, it can uh sometimes not actually be the mother and baby's best interests that are being put first, and that's where it gets really hard.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Yeah. So it sounds like up until she was born, everything actually went pretty smoothly. And it sounds like it went pretty quickly, too. Because if you were at your appointment that day and she was born at 10:45 that night, that's not a super long labor, especially for your first baby, and you did it all naturally and unmedicated and all the things like you're a first-time mom, and that like that's incredible. It sounds like everything went wrong after she came out. So, how did that affect your postpartum? How was your postpartum once you got to take her home?

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Postpartum was interesting. Um I pretty rough. So I was like the first few days, I was just like, once we got her out of the NICU, then I like was pretty chill and Just kind of like processing my own story, like super stoked that I had done that because I forgot to mention, like when I was like still kind of hesitant about motherhood before ever getting pregnant, I was like also just afraid of the pain of birth because of some like gynecology things that I'd had. And I was like, oh, am I just gonna like pass out, like not be able to handle this? Like maybe I should just like go for an epidural, but then I learned that an epidural is a thing in your spine. I'm like, hmm, does not sound like my cup of tea. And like also just like typical medications don't really seem to work with my body like they do most people. So I'm like, I probably would be one of those like 10% of people that it just like doesn't work right for. So I'm just like gonna that's why I went like full into the natural birth, just like, okay, how do I cope with this and not uh have to have a needle in my spine? Um lots of rubber catheter things stuff anyway. Um but yeah, so the first few days postpartum, I was just like processing just like this moment of like super cool, awesome. I did it like feeling so like strong and powerful, but then also weighing that with the but what went wrong, like why does it not feel complete? Like what it felt like something was like robbed or like missing at it. So it was a weird thing to process because I'm like, I met my goals, I like achieved them, my baby's healthy. Why do I still feel weird? Um, so I like kind of had like yeah, so I was like rolling off of kind of the high of like having this super powerful birth, and but then processing the kind of trauma of the separation um too. And so I think I remember like day four postpartum being home and like taking a shower, and I just like cried in the shower just for like 20, 30 minutes, just integrating everything and being like, I'm home. And now there's a tiny human who depends on me, and I don't know what I'm doing with that. Like, I had so little experience with kids too that I have to have the NICU nurses teach me how to change a diaper just to make sure because I'm like, I've never I've never done this before. I felt so inexperienced. Um and I was also in a place of kind of shifting from like career mindset to more like stay-at-home mom mindset. I had quit my job like at the beginning of my third trimester, and so I'd been home for a couple months, but I was kind of just like chilling. Um but as I like stepped into the role of like actually like mothering on the outside, I was starting to feel very overwhelmed and inadequate. And so I and dealt with like I mean, breastfeeding was hard for the first like it took like three weeks for me to feel like I figured it out and for it to stop hurting.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Yeah. Um, that's pretty normal.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Yeah. And there was like stress about that, there was like stress about sleep. There were all these things that just started kind of spiraling me into like postpartum anxiety and then kind of postpartum depression. And then I was struggling so much with sleep and like not getting enough sleep because I was so much wanting to still be myself and have my own like unique identity that I'm like, okay, now that the baby's asleep, I'm gonna stay up and have time, like me time. And this is like the first week postpartum, even that I'm just like trying to do this. I'm like looking back, I'm like, girl, no, just go sleep with your baby and chill. And it's okay, you're a mother now, you're not a completely independent human being, and that's okay. Um, but it was a process of accepting that I was in a new season of life, that I was not gonna have all the free time to myself that I once did, and I got in a very like kind of self-defeating, victimizing mindset around that. And then as I was like so desperate to have the time to myself that I then continued to get less and less sleep. Um, then I got more and more mentally unhealthy to the point where I was hallucinating my baby crying and various other, just like really yeah, scary hallucinations from sleep deprivation. So I I didn't get officially evaluated, but I would consider it postpartum psychosis, just a lot of the things that I was kind of experiencing and going through and just feeling so so desperate and not mentally okay. Um and that lasted for like four to five months. Um yeah. And it was kind of like a slow descent into madness, and then when I kind of accepted that I needed help and started reaching out, then I my husband and other people were able to kind of like slowly bring me back up.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Um and then kind of once I did your husband recognize that was going on in you, like was he seeing that happen? Like yeah, did he say anything?

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Didn't know what to do about it. He he was concerned, um, and just felt pretty powerless. I think I had dealt with mental health things for like many years before that, so it was kind of typical, it was like normal for me, but then it started becoming not normal. And he was basically doing his best to like keep our baby alive and keep me like sane enough to keep her alive too. Um, and yeah, it was just really this process of like, okay, God, like what am I doing here? Like, why why me? Why now? Like, what's going on? And just also, so another kind of from the time that she was born, she was born in January, and my husband and I had committed to a um Bible reading in a year plan. And each day we were doing it together and discussing um the like chapters and questions we had, and we were really like deep diving into the scriptures, which was one of like the key kind of transformational things for me over this period. So by the time we were like a few months into digging through the Bible, I was really confronted with like, oh, I don't know, confronted with the fact that I was making things worse for myself and needed to like take some responsibility and that the Lord's design is good and that he does work things together, and that it yeah. So my husband like saw me struggling, didn't really know what to do about it at that point, but was just doing what he could. Um, and eventually did kind of help me out from it. Um, but then kind of by the time I got stable and was good, like you were mentioning of like, oh, everyone in the house was sick, and like your husband was not sick, and then and then he got sick once everyone else was better, kind of thing. It my husband then got postpartum depression himself, kind of once I was more stable, I think almost as a like kind of like a balancing reaction. I think he had been pouring into me and like keeping me okay for so many months that he had kind of like drained his stores.

SPEAKER_03 47:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

So then I had to then help him. It there was just like a lot of kind of hard discussions and stuff in our marriage. Um, and I had to help him work through his new role as like a father and protector of me and of this baby. And praise God, we worked through it all eventually. Um, and I think really reading scripture was helping us a lot with that, but it was really, really overwhelming for many months.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

Yeah, I mean it sounds like it. I've yeah, I've heard like anecdotal cases of dads getting postpartum depression. It's not very common, but it sounds like it makes sense though, with him emptying himself for so long. And then once he felt in his heart that you were kind of in the clear, then he let go.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

And wow.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

So I'm really glad you guys were able to go to scripture though, and even if you didn't know you were relying on God's word to get out of it, but that God was using his word, that's super inspiring, honestly. And that that much more of a reason to read our Bibles.

SPEAKER_01 48:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

So what happens next?

SPEAKER_01 48:56

So because of the gnarliness of like the post-foreign depression and just kind of like the rough transition I felt like I had going from zero to one, I was just like, I don't know how I'm ever gonna handle more than one child, like and so I was very hesitant. I I think I I wanted more children down the line, but I was very, very not open to it in the moment. And so I was uh trying to like track my cycles and like I didn't want to use any hormonal birth control, and other methods just don't really work for us, and so I was kind of loosely like tracking my days and like trying to not fall pregnant. Um, but then when she was 11 months old, yeah, just before 11 months old, um, on Christmas Eve, I took a pregnancy test and was positive. And I was at my grandparents' house for Christmas, actually. And so I told them the next day. And like at first I was like, I'm not ready for this. Like, well, what am I gonna do? Like this baby still wakes up several times a night and is like nursing through the night, and like what I just so many questions, and just like, I'm not ready was really just my first response. Um, but like within a day, I was even within a few minutes, hours even, I was just like, okay, yeah, we can we can do this. It'll like we have nine months to figure it out and it'll be okay. Um, but still feeling hesitant. And I like told since we were at my grandparents, I like told everyone the next morning. Um, because I was just like, oh yeah, we've like had one pregnancy. This one we had waited to announce the first one um until like second trimester, kind of typically. Um, but this we were like, oh, we'll just tell everyone. Um, and then two days later I started bleeding. And I'm like, mm, this doesn't seem normal. And I would like from that moment, I was like, okay, I think I'm miscarrying because it was just like a lot of red blood. And so I had kind of gone through this emotional roller coaster of like, I'm not ready, but like, okay, yeah, let's have a baby. To then, oh, we're losing this. There's not a baby. Okay. Um, and since we were on vacation, I and it just like kind of all resolved itself. I didn't bother going in anywhere. I didn't like make any appointments. It just all passed on its own. And I went through the emotional grieving process and was still wrestling with like, okay, I am sad to have had this loss, but I still don't feel ready for another one. So I continued on um again, loosely tracking cycles, kind of trying to avoid pregnancy. But then two or three months later, I missed my period and took a test and was like, oh, yep, I'm pregnant. And again, I was like, I'm not ready, I'm not ready. How are we gonna do this? I don't know. I went through the whole thing again. Um, but then was just excited. I'm like, okay, cool. And then in the first, and then like a week into it, I started spotting. I'm just like, all right, this isn't bleeding, spotting can be normal, and like just doing all the Googling of spotting pregnancy, uh, and so I just wasn't sure. I was like, okay, we will wait and see. Um, I realized there was nothing really to be done about it either way. So I was starting to just trust the Lord more with the process and be like, okay. Um, but I did call and schedule an appointment with the midwives from before. Um, and they're like, well, you can come in for an ultrasound at eight weeks. And I'd started spotting at six weeks. Um, so then it was kind of this like anxious two-week wait where it would the spotting would like kind of go away, but then it would like come back for a couple of days, and then it started becoming more like bleeding, bleeding. And by the time I went to the appointment, I was like, I'm quite sure I have miscarried this baby, but just wanted to make sure. So went in and yeah, the midwife did a scan and didn't see a heartbeat and was like, I'm so sorry. Um, but she said, also, I can't like confirm it. You have to come back for another ultrasound with the ultrasound tech um to have it confirmed. So it's like, okay. We and my husband and daughter were with me. Um, and we had to come back just like a couple hours, like, yeah, a couple hours later. They went and my daughter fell asleep in the car. And so then my husband was driving her around um so she could stay asleep while I went into the appointment by my the second appointment that day with myself with the ultrasound tech who is an older man, and he's very nice, but yeah, it was I don't think I've ever had an ultrasound tech who is a man, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:55

Ever. I mean, I've had OBs use an ultrasound, but I've never had an ultrasound tech who was a man.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

Man, yeah, yeah. He's just like the ultrasound tech for um that group of midwives, and so he did it, but so it was just me and him in the room, and he like does a scan, no baby, and was like, I'm sorry. And I had kind of already I was in my grieving process at that point, and I was just like, Yeah, I no surprise, this is what I was told just a few hours ago. It felt kind of stupid to have to go back um and confirm. And then like he gave me a hug, like a consolatory hug, which I appreciated and like accepted for a couple seconds. Then I tried to pull away and he didn't pull away, and then it was just really awkward. I don't know. It was one of those moments that just made me not really want to go back, um, even though it was like done out of care. It just felt it felt weird. Let go of the hug when the hug is over. Um and and yeah, the midwife said they would like call and follow up in a week. They never called and followed up, but I didn't really care because that was kind of my like moment of just being like, okay, yeah, it was it was really my moment of like switching and just giving everything to the Lord. Um, because I think statistically I had expected to um have a miscarriage in my life because it it seems like many women that I know have it. It just like statistically seemed likely and expected and normal. So I kind of wasn't even really that throne when the first one happened. And so I think God was kind of like, hello, wake up call. Like it, you're not just a statistic, you're your own unique human being. And these babies that I want to give you are their own unique human beings. And are you willing to accept the blessing of them or not? And accept like his design and authority and sovereignty over everything. And so it became this moment of like, yes, I am willing. And so is like a humbling moment of just going through two losses back to back and being like, okay, none of this is in my control. Obviously, it's not in my control. If I get pregnant, it's not in my control. If I stay pregnant, it's not going to be in my control if I carry a baby to term or not. Like ultimately that's all going to be up to God. And like, yes, I should steward my body well and be willing to receive the blessings that he's willing to offer. Yeah. So from that moment, I went home. And since I since I had been kind of bleeding on and off, I was like, well, maybe my body needs a little help to move things along. So I started just deep diving into kind of methods of like out-of-hospital miscarriage management, um, looking up different like herbs and homeopathics and all these different things. And I went to sprouts and got just like a whole mess of things in my car. I'm just like, I'm gonna manage this miscarriage myself at home and was very determined, and it just really yeah, kicked me down a path into sovereign birth and um being more open to life. So once the and it took a few more days for um the baby to actually pass out. So I ended up having a kind of mini labor. It was like two days after the ultrasound. Um, that evening, I'd like been having contractions and um was supposed to jump on a Zoom call for my Bible study. It was like 8 p.m. And I just like went to the bathroom beforehand just to make sure. And then I heard a weird plop and I was like, what was that? And so I ended up not joining the Bible study call because I fished my the remains of my tiny little baby out of the toilet and held it in my hand and cried and called my husband in. And we yeah, just prayed and um I had him dig a hole under the orange tree in our backyard, and I got a piece of cloth from one of his old t-shirts and a piece of cloth from one of my old um things and wrapped up like just the little it was probably about like that big in my hand, just like a little bit. Um, but I saw like the tiniest little details of hands, and um yeah, it was it was a lot. And so we wrapped up the little baby and buried them under the tree and prayed and just kind of had a moment. Um and yeah, and it was just really on from then on, I was just like, Okay, Lord, I am open to life and I'm trusting you with everything. And um here we go. And so it was just it then the next like couple months was we were mourning, but then at that point I realized I'm like, okay, I'm open to whatever. And yeah, uh there's just a huge shift at that point, and then I was open to life, and then I I was learning more and more about tracking my cycles, and so I'd started taking my temperature. Um, so as we um approached now my fourth pregnancy, I like I I didn't end up testing um at all because I had been tracking my signs and I was like pretty sure that I'd ovulated and just things were lining up. I was like, Yeah, I'm pregnant. I don't, I don't need to take a test. And I decided to uh just really look to like the Lord's signs and like what he has um yeah, just be patient and waiting, waiting on the Lord for um his natural like confirmation signs. And yeah, like my period never came. And then I started feeling a bit sick, and just like all the little things were happening. It's like, yeah, okay, I'm pregnant. And um, yeah, and like in those couple months between the second loss and getting pregnant, I had um found like a few different podcasts. Um and like I'd found Free Birth Society specifically. Specifically, I like started listening to a lot of those and really got felt resonated with because of my like initial first first thoughts with pregnancy of being like, why do we have to go to all these doctors' appointments? And the answer is you don't have to unless you really want to and feel like there's something helpful out of it. Um, but when I realized I'm like, it doesn't it it added more stress than anything to my first pregnancy. And yeah, so I decided to have a completely wild pregnancy for my second daughter. Um, and it was just a really, really beautiful process to kind of unfold. Um, and just a lot of patience and waiting on the Lord and just really, really surrendering it over to Him. Um and as we kind of passed the little marks of like where my first two losses had occurred, there was definitely like a peace, but also just continually giving it to God, like and just like appreciating every moment that I got to hold this tiny life inside of me. I'm like, Lord, even if you if I lose this one tomorrow, like you are still good. Just like reminding myself of that and just really, really leaning into his sovereignty over all of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:14

That's beautiful. How did your husband feel about having a wild pregnancy?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

He was he was into the idea. He had kind of come along with me through our uh steps into radicalization, I guess. Um and so yeah, um, he was very supportive of it and thought it was cool. Oh, I forgot to mention after when my first well oh, so between the two losses, was it? Yes, yeah. So it was between the two losses, I um did a doula training. Um it was actually like the day that I got the first, like on Christmas Eve or Christmas, it was like before the like in the days of pregnancy before the first miscarriage is when I signed up for the doula course. And then I took it, and then like a month after it finished, um, I had the second loss. And so that was also like kind of instrumental on my um journey. And so I like explained things to my husband just the whole way. And he was just very supportive of me, like leaning into this kind of falling towards birth work and learning as much as I can about it, like for my own purposes, but then also to be serving women. And so he was he thought it was awesome that I wanted to do all that and was also just very, yeah, trusting of God's sovereignty in the process.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

That's really cool. I love that you did dual training and become a dual. You said that in the beginning, and I was like, yay, just because I know that life so well. So I'm assuming with a wild pregnancy, then you were planning a free birth then. So were you like tracking any sort of due date? I say that with quotation marks, but were you tracking like knowing about what time you thought maybe your baby should be ready to come?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:08

Yeah, since I was like pretty confident of like the day of conception, I was then like pretty confident of like when the 40-week mark would be. And so I was um yeah, doing some kind of like journaling weekly. I was doing a um Christian childbirth education course called Embrace Birth Journey, and that was um teaching me some things about yeah, that was like having me journal through, and like I I decided to like log some, um do some of my own like kind of prenatal appointments where I would just like sit in this room by myself very peacefully and have like my phetoscope and um blood pressure cuff and um measuring tape. And so I'd like check my bundle height and um check my blood pressure, uh, listen to baby's heartbeat and just kind of the traditional midwifery type skills I started practicing. Um, and so it was just very fun and so so peaceful to just be relying on intuition and like the leading of the Holy Spirit and just like looking into like myself and the Lord for authority and not like seeking it from another external validation type of source.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:18

Yeah. How do you feet a scope yourself? Do you just like lean really far over?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

Yeah, so I I couldn't use the um the forehead part, but I was able to press down just with my so I had the ear tips in my ears, and then I could just like press down hard enough um with and it still like transferred up to my ears. So I think I first cool. Yeah, I think I first was able to get her heartbeat at like 17, 18 weeks, maybe with the pedoscope. Um, yeah. And then I was also able to figure out where my placenta was located um because of I couldn't hear the difference in like the kind of swooshy sounds of the placenta versus her actual heartbeat. So I was like, oh, okay, I can I so I felt confident too of like my anterior placenta. It's not like anywhere near the cervix. We're good. So I like, yeah, kind of had those um little confirmations of yep, every everything's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

Cool. Okay. So take us to labor. When did it start? How did it start?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

Um yeah, so and I guess in the pregnancy, we had been like guessing because my first was at 40 weeks and five days spontaneous labor. So I'm like, okay, is it gonna be sooner or later? Um, I think I was expecting sooner, um, because I just I think I've heard that generally second babies come sooner.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

Um it would be nice if that was always the case. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

Yeah. It was not, and I just stayed very pregnant. Um, my husband was born at 42 weeks, and so I had this kind of like thought in my head of like, well, maybe this baby will be like more towards the 42 week side. And she indeed was. Um, there was a few times of kind of like start and stop labor um where I'd had like an hour of like pretty regular contractions, and then I would just like change what I was doing and they go away. So I'm like, oh, okay, not labor, cool. Um, but it one of those happened like while like on my two days past my due date at my friend's house, and so we were having like Easter dinner, and um people were just kind of like looking at me, like, is she going into labor right now? And I was like, No, that's fine. It's like or even if I am, it doesn't matter. It'll be a few hours. Um, so we had like those starts and stops, and I was just like patiently waiting. Um, but the Lord worked in the timing really well uh because I was like 41 weeks and still hadn't gone, but we had like two small cars and we'd been thinking about getting a minivan. Um, and we're like, well, might as well do it while she's still inside. That'll be a little easier. So I was like 41 weeks, we like went to CarMAX and like got um a minivan. And so I was like maybe laboring a little bit, but then it it fizzled out again. Um, but yeah, we were just able to get the last few things done that we really needed to. Um, and then at 41 weeks, well, at 41 weeks and four days, I was like talking to one of my birth mentors. I was like, you know, like I we have the pool, we have like everything ready to go, but like when do you think we should like fill up the pool? Because I don't want to do it like too soon. And she was just like, You're past 41 weeks. You should probably just have the pool filled up and like filled up with air. Um, and I was like, Yeah, okay. So that night we um filled it up and stuck it in this room so the cats wouldn't damage it. And then the next morning I um woke up. Well, it was like through that night, every time I would shift position, I would have a contraction that I would have to like really breathe through, but then I would just fall right back asleep. So it wasn't didn't seem like real labor. But when I woke up in the morning, I texted my husband, I'm like, I kind of hope baby comes today because I could not really handle another night of sleep like that. Um, and he was like, Yeah, cool. Um, and I and I was like, having irregular contractions. He's like, Do you want me to come home? I'm like, Yeah, that's probably a good idea. I'd I would just like having his hands on deck. And so he like got some asylables and headed home. And I was definitely starting towards more active labor. I like walked into my backyard a little bit, just like kind of coping with trans contractions, and like picked some peppermint and was just like smelling it because that seemed really nice. And I just like stood in the sun for a while. I was doing a lot of very kind of like natural things. I'm just like, I want to be in nature and my favorite silence for just a few minutes in the backyard while my husband uh got the pool out and started filling it with water. Um, and then I was like, hmm, I'm kind of hungry. And like last time I didn't eat enough. So I should like, if I am going into labor today, I definitely want to have eaten breakfast. So I went to the kitchen, tried to cook some eggs, could not cook the eggs. Husband said, the water's full. I'm like, all right, I'm getting in. And so I went, got in the pool. It was super, super hot. It was, I don't, it was very, very hot. Probably too hot, but it was fine. Um, I was like, this feels better than yeah, I was like, feels better than not being in it. So he went and finished cooking the eggs while I just started like coping with uh contractions in the pool, and that was around like 10 45 a.m. Um, and then yeah, it was just like our toddler was just watching some TV down the hall because I was like, I don't want her around right now, I just need to think and have space, and so it was good. He was like ferrying her snacks, coming back to like offer me a sip of water and a bite to eat. And I like put on my worship labor playlist that I had made. Um, and yeah, it was just like worshiping through labor and it was beautiful and it got very intense um because it was just kind of all happening so fast. Uh and then I like felt my water break um under the water. There was just kind of like a pop. It's like, okay. Um, and I like told my husband, so then he set up the camera to start recording since that was kind of my indication of last time of like, yeah, things are getting pretty close. Um, and yeah, so then I was on hands and knees in the in the tub, and it was really a course of like four contractions. I like I I had like three or four kind of bearing down feeling contractions, and then she just flew out in one um in one fell swoop. Yeah. Um, it was I think it was really fetal ejection reflex, and I'd kind of been expecting since my first daughter was born, like head one contraction, and then the body. That's kind of what I was expecting this time. So I was a little caught off guard when she just like flew out, but I was like on hands and knees. So she kind of flew out behind me, and I'd not my husband wasn't aware of like how close she was, so he wasn't like ready to ready to start. Yeah. So I went and like turned around to catch her and just like, yeah, it was like all so fast that I just like pulled her up and he said, watch the cord, like as I was like picking her up, and I did accidentally snap her cord like behind the back of my thigh. Yeah. Um, and so we I didn't get to do the whole cord burning ceremony that I had at like 38 weeks, I had like gotten on this whole tangent of like we need locally sourced beeswax candles to like my cord burning with. And I was like crying because I couldn't find any, and then my husband found some, and I was like so thankful. And then yeah, we didn't end up needing them.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:03

And then you snapped your cord.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:05

Yeah, exactly. It's like okay, well, um, but he like saw that and um I had like a little cart of just labor supplies, like some tincture, just like anything that I might possibly need was all in this little cart, including some clamps. And so he just went and grabbed the clamps and um we put them on, and yeah, it was just like in this. So we have the video, it's really just like it's so funny to just like watch the cord snap it because then there's like blood flowing out everywhere, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:38

From both ends. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:40

Yeah, just like suddenly a lot, but um it was good. So we clammed her and like while he was getting the clamps, I like looked and I said, like, it's a girl. And then he was like, it's a girl. And then he was like, Wait, we need to get the clamps on. Um, and did that, but yeah, everything. And I like immediately was trying to latch her. I don't know why. I think because I didn't get that with my first, probably. I just like immediately was like, Oh, I I want like my baby's here, I'm holding her and I'm gonna nurse her. So it looks a little awkward in the video of me just like immediately trying to breastfeed, but it's like was what felt normal. And I was also like, oh well, if the cord is it was just this whole moment. It was it was a great birth though. Um, and I think I had to like unpack it a little bit myself. I'm like, did I like pause the cord to snap? Am I like and but eventually I realized I'm like, no, it's just it's fine. And my husband helped me realize, like, hey, it's kind of good to know that you could just snap the cord if you really needed to, like in a desperate situation. Um yeah, and and also because I got kind of loud roaring the baby out. My my toddler kind of came down the hall like right as the emergence contraction was happening because she like heard me yelling and was like, what's going on? So then she was kind of coming down the hall crying. It was just a lot in this one little moment, but it was also just like so beautiful. Um, I was just so thankful for it. Um, yeah, it it was just a beautiful moment to have together as a family. And just like we did it. We had like we listened to just like all the intuition and like promptings to like have things and be prepared because you don't know what birth is gonna look like, um, but you can still prepare for a lot of it and manage it at home in so many cases, and we were able to do that. And yeah, it was just kind of bliss. Um, like the placenta came out. Like, I I thought the placenta came out on its own. Um, so it was like 15, 20 minutes after the birth. Um, and I was like, oh, did it because I had felt something plop out into the pool. And so I like stood up and I'm like, oh nope, there's just some cord hanging between my legs. Placenta's obviously still inside me. And so I think I had been a clot that I had felt pass. Um, but then I just while I was still in the pool, I handed the baby to my husband and like squatted over a bowl, let the placenta go, and then I just kind of floated the bull, the the bowl floated in the pool with the placenta for a while while I just got out and took my baby and went and laid down. And we figured out breastfeeding and then took a nap for the next few hours, and it was just so so blissful. And I was just like, okay. And I had um I had hired some postpartum support to come by and um help clean up the pool um and stuff. So I knew that I didn't have to like worry about any of that. I was like, yeah, it's it's gonna get taken care of, and I can just enjoy my baby. It was just so so lovely, it was so great.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:53

That's really cool too. I didn't think about that part hiring, you know, a postpartum person to come do all the cleanup for you. That's cool. Yeah.

unknown 1:16:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:02

Yeah, and then she also did like placenta art for me and um stuff. So it was really cool. She ended up making she did a placenta print, and then um, oh, my husband had also gotten rose petals um from our bushes outside and sprinkled them in the pool. Um, and so she put some rose petals on the placenta art um to kind of like represent that. And it was just very beautiful and very fun. I loved it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:28

That's so cool. So then how did that postpartum go?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:33

It was worlds different, just so so glorious. I got to really like rest. Um like my first one, I was my first postpartum. I was literally back at the horse barn, like brushing my horse within a week because I was just like again, desperate for that, like my own self things. But this time I'm like, no, this is about me and baby getting to know each other and me recovering properly so that I can steward my body well and have more babies. Um, so I because I had heard I'd learned a lot more about how just like proper postpartum recovery is really important for kind of long-term health and like pelvic floor health and just like all these different things. I'm like, okay, this is important to me to rest. And so I had, I was also since we didn't spend money on a home birth midwife, I then was like, well, can I use that money to like get really good postpartum support stuff? My husband was like, Yeah, sure. So I hired a postpartum chef um who delivered like Ayurvatic inspired, like just super nourishing meals um like twice a week in little jars. So like my husband just had to reheat those and give them to me. And that was amazing and great. And so I was able to like really be in like I stayed in bed for the first week. I kind of tried to do the five, five, five um, like in the bed, on the bed around, and yeah, just took that a lot more seriously. And so I think it really helped my recovery a lot. Um, and I also just like because I knew what I was because I had the experience of them being a second-time mom too, I just like didn't have all like the stresses of like, what does this baby cry mean? And what am I doing? Like, I just knew all the things and uh like with my first, we had I didn't plan to bed chair at first, but then we ended up doing that to help me get enough sleep to recover from the PPD. And but with this one, I'm just like, well, it just makes sense. I'm just gonna bedchair from the get-go. And so I was able to get really good sleep from the beginning, which was just so, so helpful. Um, and she was good at sleeping from the beginning. Like the first week, she was already doing like six-hour stretches. I was just like, I just felt so sane and good. And like that was kind of the one thing that I'd like prayed for was just a better sleep situation than with my first, so that I wouldn't really go down the hole. And yeah, and the Lord answered that prayer and was just like, yep, you can have some sweet sleep with your baby, and it was great. So yeah, I just felt really I felt nourished and restored and kind of it was just like a very redemptive postpartum, I think, um, compared to the first. And um also it at the same time, like right after um the birth, I had signed up to do radical birthkeeper school. And so it was like while I was kind of in my postpartum bed recovering, I was then continuing to learn more and more about how to support women who want to also do sovereign births. Um, and so I was just it it felt great to just like have my own story and just like the bliss of that, and then also just roll that into. Okay, how can I then support more women to have this type of experience too?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:06

Um, so it was just really yeah, it was lovely. I didn't even know there was a school for that. That's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:14

Yeah, yeah, it's a like an eight-week program. Um yeah, and now I'm doing a different one. So there's a few different kind of birthkeeper trainings. I found one that's actually faith-based, um, called Hearth Mother Journey that I'm now doing, and it's more of a year long. So it started in October. So I'm now on that, and it's just yeah, it's becoming a process of figuring out like, all right, what season am I in? Because I'm in like definitely my season of like pregnancy and birthing my own babies, but then I also want to support other women in that process, and so it's a balance of my own mothering and figuring out where God wants to use me in the birth world, but I'm just in that equipping phase.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:00

That's so cool. That's a fun phase to be in. So through all of your experiences, what do you feel like God taught you?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:11

He is sovereign and he is, yeah. I mean, I've said it many times, but just to I learned to trust in his sovereignty and that he works all things um for his glory. Because like even looking back now, I just see how my how my stories have kind of like formed this path that I'm on, and now I'm in this very kind of unique niche of um yeah, just wanting to serve God as the authority in birth um and have mother and baby centered um rather than looking to other authorities. And so I think, yeah, just really learned that he is faithful and trustworthy, and that he's also given us um the spirit, he's given us intuition to lean into and that we can trust that. And I think that's something that I especially learned from my first experience because I I know I had those kind of thoughts in pregnancy, and I think that was kind of the spirit prompting me towards like, oh, there's a different way to do this. And so I started leaning into that more. Had I had I trusted it more in my first pregnancy, I think a lot of things could have been different. But now I see that because of how I went through the things that I did. I now have this story that makes sense and may encourage other people to just consider all the options that they actually have and not be looking to please people to actually be pleasing God in the choices they're making. Um yeah, just his sovereignty is really good and just like his design for things, just learning more and more about physiological birth and mothering. Um it's like I'm so thankful for his good design, and then I'm also it putting into proper perspective the grace that is the hospital because I absolutely recognize that it's the hospital is life-saving in some situations, and it is absolutely necessary in some situations. So even though I've been like tempted to be like, no, we don't need no, we definitely do still need the hospital for some birth situations, and it's um so I see that he has provided the kind of medical technology as a grace, but then he's also given us heaps of grace in the natural birth process too. Um, and just in all things, he is working together, and um yeah, there's the Lord is good. That's what I'm learning.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:56

Yes, he is. The Lord is good. Well, this has been a beautiful listen. I really appreciate you sharing all of your stories, and I'm inspired. I I mean, I just love birth stories, obviously, but I also love like walking away inspired. It's beautiful. I love hearing different women's experiences and perspectives and hearts, and I love it. I love it all. Me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:22

That's part of why I'm going into birth work too, because it's just God is just always working, and it's so cool to hear personal testimonies of his faithfulness and how we can frame things to glorify him.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:39

Well, is there anything else you want to say before we officially end?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:44

Yeah, listen to the spirit's intuition. Like if you feel like promptings, lean into that, be curious, explore like what the Lord might have for you and something, and like a bit a bit of advice for new parents too is just everyone's gonna figure out what works for them. And it's okay if someone does something differently than you. I because again, like in my early like kind of people pleasing days, I was like, Oh, well, they're not doing what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:13

Does that mean that one of us is wrong?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:16

Yeah, exactly. And uh yeah, part of my journey was realizing like now like every family is just a little bit different, everyone has different personalities and how they're all gonna yeah, everyone just has a different situation and there's different solutions for different situations, and it just like all becomes its own unique thing. And if something's working for you, just keep doing it. That's fine. You don't have to do something else just because someone else's.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:44

Yeah. Cool. Well, Tasha, thank you. Thanks for coming on here. Thanks for sharing everything. Thank you, Kayla. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. You can reach me at Surrendered Birth Services on Instagram or email me at contact at Surrendered Birth Services.com. Be sure not to miss an episode by hitting the follow button. Also, we'd love for you to leave a written review of the show so that more people's births and lives can be changed by the love of Jesus and the empowerment of accurate birth education. If you really enjoyed this episode in particular, please take a screenshot of it and post it to your Instagram story tagging Surrendered Birth Services. If you would like to be a guest on the Surrendered Birth Stories podcast, please click the link in the episode show notes to fill out your interest form. Also, if you're interested in taking my childbirth classes, birth consultations, or having me as your birth doula, please click on the link in the show notes to take you to my website for online and in-person options. Just as a reminder, this show is not giving medical advice. So please continue to see your personal care provider as needs arise. We hope you have a great week. And remember, learn all that you can, make the best plans, and then leave it in God's hands. Okay, you boys, I know, you boys can't come in here. I am in the middle, I'm in the middle of a recording. You cannot be in here.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:34

True.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:35

I hey, boys, boys, boys. If you guys need to use a bathroom, you need to use a different bathroom. Is Dada up in the office?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:46

Okay, you can just I'll just lock the door. You got it? Okay. Thank you.