133: Can Breech Twins Actually Be Delivered Naturally? (Twin Birth, Breech Twins, Natural Birth)

When you’ve only ever given birth outside of the hospital and with midwives…what would it be like to have to birth in the hospital with high risk OB’s? In the state of California, where Breanna lives, midwives are not permitted to deliver twins outside of the hospital setting, and must work alongside an OB. So when Breanna found out she was having twins, she realized she’d be having a different kind of experience than her first two babies who were delivered at a birth center and at home. She still wanted to have a natural, unmedicated, vaginal birth! But would this be possible? Especially if both of her babies were in the breech position? She would have to lean on God, and God alone as the birth of her twin girls unfolded!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

My second or third visit with him, I'm like, you know, if both babies turn breach, even if one baby turns breach, I would prefer not to like have a medicated birth. All of my births have been natural at this point. And he was like, oh, I just don't think that's gonna work. Um, he's like, I don't see how you can withstand the pain from giving birth naturally.

Kayla 0:19

You're like, I've done it twice before. Thank you very much. And so have billions upon billions of women since the beginning of time.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Exactly.

Kayla 0:29

I'm Kayla Heater, follower of Jesus, wife and mother of six children, Christian child birth educator and doula, and your host of the surrendered first stories podcast, where we share God-centered birth stories, evidence-based birth education, of surrendering first place to God. Let's get started. Hi everybody, I hope your week is starting off great, or whenever you're listening to this, if you're anywhere around central North Carolina, we have been having some beautiful weather. Absolutely gorgeous, upper 70s, low 80s, sunny, it's been amazing. With that has definitely come some pollen, and there's a lot of uh sneezing and sniffling around our house right now, myself included, but a small price to pay for the beautiful vitamin D and sunshine and joy that this weather brings. Update if you listened to last week's episode and you heard how I hurt my foot, I was able to finally start kind of walking on it on Wednesday, which was nice. And Thursday, I was pretty much normal for the most part. And now Friday, I feel like I'm recording this on Friday. It still is painful when you touch it or when I directly press on it. But for the most part, I can walk normally again. And I'm very, very grateful for that because that hurt. If you didn't listen to last week's episode, I like stepped on some sort of screw or nail that went through my shoe and kind of took my breath away. Anyways, we are on week two of my in-person childworth class. That's a five-week in-person class, and so excited to be working with these couples. But if you miss that date or you're not close by, as always, our online class is available to you every single day, 24 hours a day. Um, whatever works for your schedule. So if you go onto the episode show notes and just click for the online course, you'll be able to read all the information about it there and to get signed up. We've been getting some really great reviews, which has been warmth to my heart. So I'm so happy that it's helping so many people and that we can now help people beyond, you know, the city limits of Greensboro, North Carolina, which has been amazing. So hopefully um you guys will share that with friends and family that you know who are expecting, who are pregnant, or you know, maybe pregnant for the second or third time and wanting to have a different experience than they had the first time or second time, you know. I pray and hope that this can help as many people as possible because it's it's my heart and soul, my my bread and butter, my jam. I don't actually like jam. That's why I say bread and butter. But let's jump in to this week's episode. When you've only ever given birth outside of the hospital and with midwives, what would it be like to have to birth in the hospital with high-risk OBs? In the state of California, where Brianna lives, midwives are not permitted to deliver twins outside of the hospital setting and must work alongside an OB. So when Brianna found out that she was having twins, she realized she'd be having a different kind of experience than her first two babies who were delivered at a birth center and at home. She still wanted to have a natural, unmedicated vaginal birth. But would this be possible? Especially if both of her babies were in the breach position, she would have to lean on God and God alone as the birth of her twin girls unfolded. Um, Brianna, why don't you take just a minute and introduce yourself and tell us about your life and your family and help us get to know you?

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yeah, so my name's Brianna. Um I am living in California with my four beautiful children, which is so crazy to say. Um, I have a six-year-old boy, I have a three-year-old daughter, and then I have three month-old uh twin girls that are fraternal. And so each um birth is about three years apart, which is really cool. Um, just a little background. I am a nurse. I've been a nurse for about a decade. Um, absolutely love nursing, and then I made the switch to become a lactation consultant because I fell in love with breastfeeding all of my children who have actually been exclusively breastfed, even my twins. Um, so I just made that recent transition in my career. I'm also a certified holistic nutritionist, so I really love all things nutrition. I feel like nutrition is so important for moms because we can be like just really depleted after we give birth. And that's something that I experience with my twins too. Like, but I'll get into that later. And I also have a nonprofit. I have a nonprofit called A New Life, and we are a postpartum nonprofit based here in California, providing services for moms who just gave birth, and I just really am all about the moms and having support. I know the more kids you have, the more support you need. So that's all that keeps me busy between kids, a nonprofit, um, working in a hospital. I have a really full life. Um, but the most important thing is that I am a woman of God and I truly believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins, and I'm also a wife too. I figured. Right, yeah. My husband supports me a lot with my children, and I'm just so grateful for his support because I couldn't do half the things that I do without him. And my all my birth stories are a testimony to like God's goodness. Um, my twin birth story is my favorite birth story because it's all about faith, leaning on God for support, and it was like a true faith walk from the beginning all the way to the end with the delivery. And that's the one that I really want women to like know that you know, you can do this, you can have a natural birth with twins, and um God will guide you and lead you through it. So, yeah, that's just a little bit of my history and my background. So I'll start with my first birth. Um, my son, who's six, I had him in Northern California. And that birth was really interesting because I'm a nurse, so I passed medications all day. That's what I was doing about six years ago when I got pregnant with him. But I've always been very holistic and natural minded. So when I got pregnant with him, I didn't know anything about birth. I just knew that it was supposed to be quote unquote painful. And so I had a very uneventful pregnancy, um, gave birth around 38 weeks, knew that I wanted a midwife and not a doctor. Um, I just wanted to have more control with my birth. And so I had a midwife. She was great. I saw her like once a month, like you're supposed to. And then we went to like every couple of weeks towards the end. And I didn't make it to full term, um, which they say is 40 weeks. But I haven't made it to full term with any of my babies. So they just come a little bit early, which is kind of interesting. But with that birth, there was no bleeding, there was no pregnancy issues, like it was just very, very just normal. The only issue that I had though was towards the end, towards the end of my pregnancy, just like most moms get like really heavy and tired. I found myself getting very heavy and tired. And so I kind of I left work for the last four weeks of my pregnancy. And I don't want to go too deep into it because I have free birth stories, but with that pregnancy, um, I gave birth. It was about, I want to say 36 hours. It was a very long, long labor. I didn't expect it to be that long. I wasn't very active during my pregnancy. I did try to eat healthy when I could, but um, I had a third-degree tear, and that was pretty intense. And my midwife actually did the sewing up. Um, so that was pretty interesting, but I healed very quickly from that labor. I was in my late 20s when I had my first baby, like, well, pretty much 30. Might as well just say 30. I was 29. And I recovered very easily. I had the support of my mom and my husband for the first couple of weeks after giving birth.

Kayla 9:03

Just to clarify, real quick, the birth with your midwife, then that was where?

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Yeah, that was my first birth center birth, and that was a great experience. I really have no complaints. The midwife was very kind and just very respectful, and she really honored all of my wishes. I did have Adola, so that helped a ton. It was just a very long, hard labor, though, and very painful with that birth.

Kayla 9:29

First labors typically are but way to go, you. You had a natural birth for your first at a birth center. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Yeah, and so that was what I wanted. So that that labor and that delivery went just like textbook, like everything that I wanted, you know, God really like guided me through. Um, but it was extremely painful. Um, and then I guess I'll go on like my sec, I'll go into my second labor. So in between, though, 2019 was when I gave birth to my son, and 2022 was when I gave birth to my first daughter. So in between those two years, um, I actually had two losses. Um, they were early losses. So I want to say in 2020 of December, I got pregnant again a second time, and I lost that baby around the first of the new year of the following year, 2021. Um, and so that was really shocking because nobody ever expects to like go through a miscarriage or go through a loss.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

And I thought I was doing all the right things, you know, taking care of my body, getting enough sleep, exercising. But, you know, I believe God has plans. Um, and his plans are better and bigger than ours. So that was a very tragic loss because I led so much I couldn't stop bleeding. And my husband had to call the ambulance, and I ended up getting um taken to the hospital. And this was in the height of COVID. So there wasn't even a bed available, and I was just waiting for like 30 minutes in the ambulance for them to take me. Finally got in, and they still didn't have a bed available for like another couple of hours. And this whole time I was kind of like just bleeding and um couldn't get the bleeding to stop. Finally, it started to slow down a little bit, and they had to call an OB into the hospital. And now this was this was actually in Los Angeles because we moved to LA from Marin County when he was four months old. Um, so this was in LA where I went to the hospital. And um, they called an OB from a different hospital because they didn't even have a maternity ward there. Um, so the care that I received was not really the best. And there was a delay in care, which was really hard. But I made it through, I recovered. I would say that was like one of the hardest Christmases we have ever gone through as a family, just because it just wasn't expected. I wasn't, I wasn't expecting to even get pregnant. And then once I did get pregnant, now I had a loss. So that was just really tough. A few months later, I was like, let's try and see if we can do this again and hopefully it'll work out. In between that time, I really uh developed my relationship deeper with God, got into a lot of prayer, um, was reading my Bible more, and I was like, I hope this is gonna work this time. And I think I got pregnant again in May 2021. And I was like, okay, this feels everything feels normal. Went in for an ultrasound and a second time found out that like there was no heartbeat, um, didn't have any symptoms of bleeding. So this was my second loss at this point. And I was just like, okay, why like why is this happening? Like I'm really young and healthy, like this should just be a normal pregnancy. And I didn't have any issues the first time with my first pregnancy. So this was just another like shocker. Um and I did both of my um miscarriages natural. So I didn't have a DNC with either of them. And that could have been like the doctors are saying that's probably why I bled out so much. Um, so with this pregnancy, I did the same thing. Um, I let my body kind of just go through the process. It was about five weeks of me just walking around, still with my baby inside of me, which kind of I know everyone has different ways they deal with losses, but I just really wanted to process it. So that allowed me time to process the fact that they're no longer here. Um and my body finally released everything at like six weeks postpartum.

Kayla 13:32

I call it postpartum, but so like six weeks after you found out that the baby had passed.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Yeah, it was six weeks um with both of my losses actually before I started bleeding.

Kayla 13:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

So that was pretty tough. Um I think I was just so afraid of um the experience of a DNC, I was just afraid of it. So I chose to just go the natural route. And that second time that I lost the baby and miscarried was around August of 2021. And so I ended up in the hospital again, let out again, and that was really tough. So that was two back-to-back losses. And so I just decided that I wanted to do things differently the third time around. And so I went into a time and season of like fasting, prayer, um, spending more time with God again, and just really focusing on building my relationship with my son, who was already here, um, and just appreciating the child that I did have, but then also going through the process of mourning the children that had passed.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

And so that was just really tough. But it allowed me to get deeper in my relationship with God. So I'm grateful for that season that I had. But of course, I'm always gonna miss those babies, you know, that are in heaven. So yeah. Um, I also started getting more into natural medicine. I sought, um, I sought out a naturopathic doctor and they specialized in fertility. And so they have this whole protocol to go through. I went through all the things, you know, drinking more water, um, trying to use more natural products, cooking most of my food. I stopped using microwaves. Like I just was really intense with um making all these changes, reduced my stress levels. I got a job working from home, so that, you know, could have helped with the stress too, and just reduced my um hours working as a nurse because working in healthcare can be a little bit taxing sometimes. And then I got pregnant with my daughter, who's now three, and that was in December of 2021. And it was like a full circle moment because I had my first loss in December of 2020. And so I'm like, oh, this is really triggering for me because it's Christmas time, you know, how's this pregnancy? I go, yeah. So it was really tough. And we made it through, and she was born in August of 2022. And something that I really wanted, um, just to like kind of make this pregnancy special, which of course we have no control over it, but I had always prayed and wanted a daughter that was like born close to my birthday. So God, you know, He answers prayers. And she was born on August 22nd, and my birthday is August 20th. So she was born two days after my birthday, so it was like the best birthday gift that you can ever have.

Kayla 16:20

Oh, that's sweet.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Yeah, so that was my second birth, and that one was a home birth with a midwife.

Kayla 16:26

And what made you choose home birth after having such a good experience at the birth center?

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Yeah, so um, I had to try to find a birth center down here in LA, and they have them. Like we have birth centers out here, but something that I experienced with my losses was my losses were at home, and I felt like I started to hate my house. I started to hate where I lived because it had those bad memories of just bleeding out in the bathroom. Um, and I was like, you know what? I want this to be like a redemptive birth and a redemptive experience.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

And so I was like, this is really scary, but I want to have birth at home just to show that like this, you know, this can be done.

Kayla 17:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

And this can be a place of joy. So that's why I opted for the home birth. And um, it was definitely a powerful experience. And I had a great midwife, and so I it was just great. Like it was everything that I could have asked for. Um, was it shorter than your first? It was, it was about half the time. So the first labor was 36 hours. This labor was about 15.

Kayla 17:35

Nice, and that's typically how it goes too. It's I was gonna say, yeah, that's still long, but not like you know, 36 hours long. Like, that's that's long. Right. Well, good. That's awesome. I love, I love to hear that.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Yeah, so that was um another great birth experience. And so at this point, I have only given birth with midwives out of the hospital. So this is the daughter that's now three years old at this point, currently. And so, yeah, after a few years, I kind of did some changes with my career, went back to school to become a lactation consultant, completed all my hours. And I was like, wow, you know, I've always wanted twins since I was like 15 years old. I thought it would be really cool. But you know how sometimes you're like, oh, you just have these ideas in the back of your mind, but that's never gonna happen. Because like, what are the chances? But I always go into prayer when it comes to pregnancy and childbirth and just preparing my mind, body, and spirit for what's to come because pregnancy is a lot on a woman's body. And so I just said, you know, if God really does this for me, let me start getting into prayer now and preparing my body. So um, ever since I had my losses, I just prepare my body before each pregnancy. I go into a few weeks of like detoxing, eating healthy, exercising. So I did that for several months before. And um, I conceived the twins. It's been a year. Yeah, I conceived them in December of 2024. And I went into um prayer with God. I was like, you know, I've always had this desire in my heart to have twins. I don't know if it'll happen, but like, if it's in your will, please let this come to pass. Um, so I just really tried to get in the best shape of my life because I had heard so many stories about twin pregnancies and how it's like double as like doubly harder on your body. Yeah. And so I just wanted to make sure that like I was as best prepared as I could be. Um, something that I didn't really think about too much was the fact that there was a possibility that if I did have twins, that I might not be able to see a midwife in the state of California.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

So when I got pregnant in December, I was like, oh, it's probably just gonna be one baby. So I'll just kind of guide you through the beginning all the way to the end because this birth, this pregnancy is completely different than all of my other births. So with this birth, I got pregnant and I was like, oh, it's probably just one, and I was just so sick. And this was during the holidays. So like I was kind of trying to get my house ready for Christmas, go doing Christmas shopping, all the things, spending time with family. My husband was working a lot more, and at this time I was homeschooling my kids because that was the plan. I was like, I'm just gonna homeschool because I just feel like that was just the best choice for our family. And um, come December, I was like, gosh, I'm just so sick. I don't know what's going on. Um, let me just go and get an ultrasound. So at this point, I was about six weeks. And then also I had some spotting, but it wasn't any major bleeding. Um, but it was still like making me think, oh, is everything okay? Because then I've already had these miscarriages in the past. So between feeling super sick and having just a tiny bit of spotting, I'm like, let me just go and get an ultrasound done. So I went to one of those like 3D ultrasound places with my husband, and I think I came with both of my children at the time. And this was like right before Christmas. And I go in and they're doing the ultrasound, and um, she's like, Oh, okay, yeah, I see you, you know, I could see the heartbeat, everything looks good. And then she's like, But there's a second sack. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like I can't, I can't believe this. But then the weird thing was like it was not really a moment of like excitement like I wanted to experience because she said there's the second thing she said was there's no um, there's no heartbeat though in this in the second sack. Yeah. And I'm looking, and the first baby that she measured, they had a heartbeat of like 150 something, and they were a little bit smaller. And the second baby that she measured without a heartbeat, they're measuring eight weeks, and the first baby was measuring six weeks. And I'm like, that's so strange. There's no heartbeat in the baby that's measuring ahead. And so it's like when someone's telling you something, but then in the back of your mind, like, is this really true? Yeah. And I'm like, how is this possible? So I as she was saying that, she's like, there's no heartbeat, but it's twins. I didn't even get excited when she said it was twins because she said She said there's no heartbeat.

Kayla 22:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Yeah. So I'm like, well, that's it. I'm like, and that explains the bleeding that I'm having.

Kayla 22:16

And so do you think you were losing one of the twins?

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yes. Yeah.

Kayla 22:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

And so I went into a state of sadness. Yeah. And I just wasn't excited anymore. And she was like, go, you know, go pee. They do the whole thing where they say, go pee, and then come back and let's try again. She tried again and there was still no heartbeat. And I just kept staring at the screen and I was like, I don't know if I believe this, but I'm bleeding. So maybe I am having a loss. And so I just said, okay, I guess it just is what it is. So I went home and I just started praying. And I'm like, God, you know, I really wanted twins. I didn't think I was gonna have another loss. I don't know what's going on. You know, I just accept whatever you have for me, but I just really hope that this isn't the end for us. And so we went on vacation. We went to San Diego for New Year's, and my mom watched both of the kids, my six uh six-year-old and three-year-old. It was the best vacation ever, but it was also the worst. It was the best because I finally had time to spend with my husband and just kind of like set our New Year's intentions. And we went on some like cruises and went to museums and did some fun things, but I kept bleeding and the bleeding was getting heavier and heavier. And I just was telling him, I'm like, I think this is it because I'm just bleeding more and more and more, but now I'm concerned about the first baby.

Kayla 23:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

I'm like, I don't know what to do. So I called um my doctor's office while I was on vacation, and they were able to give me a same day appointment over the phone. And I think this was like the day after New Year's, and I told her my symptoms, and I spoke to a midwife, and she was like, Oh, yeah, you know, you're probably having a loss, and you know, there's a chance that the first baby will still make it, so just try not to worry. But when you're, you know, back from your vacation, you can come in and we'll do another ultrasound. So she ordered the ultrasound. I went to the hospital probably around the second week of January.

Kayla 24:11

So, how many weeks would you have been at that point?

SPEAKER_02 24:14

I was about 10 weeks.

Kayla 24:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

I was about 10 weeks and I went alone because my husband had to work, he had his work schedule had picked up. At this point, I was still super sick. Um, so I had put my son into school. We found a Christian school for him, and so I was like, I can't handle this sickness. Um, so I put him into school. I was 10 weeks pregnant. My daughter was um still at home with me, so I was, you know, just trying to manage her through all of the nausea I was having. And so I went to the ultrasound alone. My mom actually dropped me off, and I was like, okay, well, you know, we're just gonna see this one baby. And so I went in and the ultrasound um tech was scanning, and she was like, Yeah, see, I see the first baby, you know, the heartbeat is normal. And then she's like, Yeah, and then there's baby B, and then they also have a heartbeat too. And I was just like, What? I was so shocked. I was like, Are you sure that you're seeing both babies with a heartbeat? She's like, Yeah, there's a second baby with a heartbeat. And I was like, But I was told with my first ultrasound at six weeks that there's only one baby she she showed me on the screen. Um, and then she showed me something called, um, they we call it an SCH in medical terms, and that stands for subchorionic hemorrhage. And so the bleeding that I was having was a subchorionic hemorrhage, and it's when the placenta kind of lifts up a little bit and there's fluid and like that collects. Um, and so that's where the bleeding was coming from. Baby B had a placenta, their placenta wasn't fully, I don't want to use the wrong term, but it wasn't attached like the way it needed to be. Um, and so I was just still in a state of shock, and then um she finished the the ultrasound and I went to the bathroom and I just like started crying and thanking God for really just all that he's done because I really thought that I wasn't gonna have a chance to carry twins. So that was just that's a story that just like makes me emotional all over again because I just think about how good God is with you know bringing me through to the other side.

Kayla 26:18

So and it sounds like a miracle that like the baby went from not having a heartbeat to having a heartbeat and was the bigger baby. Now, was baby B still measuring bigger than baby A? If this podcast has been with you through pregnancy, labor, or those quiet postpartum moments, and it's helped you feel more confident, grounded, or less alone, I want to share something new. You can now support the show with a small monthly donation or a one-time gift. Your support helps keep these conversations going. It makes this resource available to parents who really need it. If this show has supported you in this season of life, I'd be so grateful if you'd consider supporting it back. Visit the show notes to find the link to donate. I truly thank you for being a part of the surrendered earth community.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

So at this point, they were measuring pretty much the same size. I think they were measuring a week ahead. Maybe A was measuring 10 weeks, and baby B was measuring like 11 weeks in like three or four days.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Yeah. So I just was like on my knees in the bathroom in the hospital, thanking God for like bringing this baby back to life. I'm like, did she miss the did she miss the heartbeat? Or, you know, but I'm like, God performs miracles. So I just choose to believe that he gave this baby a second chance. And this is such a prominent moment for me because I've heard so many moms that lose their twins. I've actually spoken, spoke with moms in my church that have said, like, oh, you know, we lost our twins, both of them, or we lost one of them. And I've heard that from at least three or four people. So it was just such a blessing that I was able to carry these babies, but I also mourn for the moms who lost theirs because that's incredibly hard too. And that could have been my story, you know. And so I just go back to like, there's nothing special that I did. This is all God and him choosing to give them life and choosing to give them a second chance. After that ultrasound, I ran and told my husband I called him, he was at work, and I was like, but they both have heartbeats. And he was like, Wow, like he was so excited. And then he was like, Wow, so then that means there's gonna be two.

Kayla 28:45

So we're having twins, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Right, yeah. I'm like, we're having twins, and this is gonna be amazing. And so at that point, I was like, that also means I can't see a midwife.

Kayla 28:57

So is it that you can't see a midwife at all, or is it that you can't deliver outside of a hospital?

SPEAKER_02 29:06

So I can't see a midwife who's gonna solely deliver my baby. So basically, I'll clarify a little bit. So I can see a midwife, but she has to have an OB with her.

Kayla 29:16

Okay, because twins is considered high risk, and therefore you would need the OB in California.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

Yeah, in the state of California, midwives can't deliver twins alone, so they can deliver alongside an OB. And so an OB will deliver twins at home, but it's about $20,000.

Kayla 29:38

I'm like, really?

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Yeah, there's a doctor named Dr. Stuart Fishbein.

Kayla 29:44

Yeah, yeah, Dr. Stew. Yeah, he'll do it, he'll do it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

It'll do it. Um, and so they have another doctor as well, Dr. Victoria Flores, I believe is her name. And she lives in California as well. Dr. Stew doesn't deliver in California anymore. I'm not sure what his practice is looking like now. But Dr. Victoria Flores, who studied with him, she's an OB and she'll deliver home births in California, but she charges about the same, like 20,000 in home. Yeah. So I already reached out to her and I was like, wow, that's a lot of money for a home birth, and anything could happen, and we could get transferred.

Kayla 30:20

And so yeah, it's like 5,000 here in North Carolina, and that's still lots of people are like, yeah, no, we can't swing that. Uh-uh. 20,000. Holy moly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

The crazy thing is that moms are still doing it. Like, there's a lot of moms that um I've spoken to on Instagram who pay the 20k.

Kayla 30:40

Yeah, they've paid it.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

They've paid it because they were so set on like not delivering it in a hospital.

Kayla 30:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Because also in California, for some reason, we don't have that many OBs that are um kind of like have the skill set to deliver twins um vaginally if they're not in the right positioning.

Kayla 30:57

Right, if they're not both head down, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Right, yeah.

Kayla 31:01

So you can blame the medical schools for that. That's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Right, yeah. Cause that should be a skill, I think, that yeah, that they should be trained in. Right. A lot of moms end up with unnecessary C-sections, unfortunately, here in California. So yeah. So I found out I was pregnant with twins, and I was like, okay, let me start looking for an OB. So I happened to fall upon an OB at the medical center that I was already or the clinic that I was already going to. And so he happens to be a really good OB. Um, and he's a high risk doctor. So he's something called an MFM, which is a maternal fetal medicine um doctor. So he'll deliver twins, but he'll see like all types of cases with women who have high risk pregnancies. Um, so I saw him, he told me he's like, regardless of whatever position your baby is in, as long as they're not transverse, I can deliver them. Um, for whatever reason, though, he referred me, I don't know why, but he referred me to um a hospital called Long Beach Memorial. And this hospital is like a high-risk hospital. If you do have multiples and they're born early, they have all the skills and the equipment to like be able to take care of your baby in the NICU.

Kayla 32:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

So he referred me to another doctor who I think has more experience than him, probably about 30 years experience, and he specializes in twins. And he's one of the very few doctors that will deliver both babies breach if they're twins. Because most OBs they want at least baby A to be head down. Right. And if baby B is um breach, they'll deliver baby B breach, but baby A does need to be head down for them to deliver.

Kayla 32:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

And he was like, you know, we don't know what position these babies are gonna be in. So I just highly recommend that you know, you see him because he can handle it and he's retiring right after your due date. And I was due in August.

Kayla 32:57

Get it, get it in for it.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Yeah. And I was like, oh my gosh, okay, well, thanks for the referral. But the interesting thing was I did continue to see this doctor at the main clinic, and so I would see him every few weeks because I had that subcorionic hematoma. Right. And I was still bleeding. And so I literally bled for half of my pregnancy for like the first 20 weeks. I was bleeding like off and on. Um, sometimes it would get heavier, lighter. And so that was really hard for me mentally, just because of the experience of like the miscarriages. And yeah, I was hoping and praying everything was gonna be okay, but I couldn't exercise, I couldn't go on like my regular walks. I wasn't on full bed rest, but I had to like do a lot of sitting. And I have a six-year-old and a three-year-old, so that was really right.

Kayla 33:46

That's nearly impossible to sit that much when you have two small children like that.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Right, yeah. So it was just really, really tough um that those first five months. Um, because I'm used to like doing at least a little bit of exercise.

Kayla 34:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

And so that was a relief. Um, but I was going in for ultrasounds like every two weeks, um, which with twins, you go in for ultrasounds at least once a month, anyways, with the OB. Um, but I was coming in every two weeks because I was just terrified of the bleeding that was happening. Um, and so each time I would go in, um, this main provider that I was seeing at my original clinic, he would do the ultrasounds and just, you know, reconfirm that everything was okay, even though I would tell him I'm worried, he's like everything's gonna be fine. He put me on progesterone, which did help with the bleeding significantly. So it did go away at five months, and then after that, it just was gone. So the hematoma completely healed. Okay. Um, so that was great. Yeah. This whole time I was still like praying and just deepened my prayer and walk with God throughout my whole pregnancy because I was so scared to lose one of them. So I just kind of secluded myself actually, even like I stopped working. I took the rest of my pregnancy off from my job, um, the last six months of my pregnancy. And I feel like that really helped with my stress levels and carrying me further along. Um, with twins, there's like a whole different protocol. So, like from what you eat to the type of exercises that you do, depending on if you've been doing it before your pregnancy or what have you. So um, since I wasn't doing any type of exercise, I was like, let me just focus on my diet. Um, it was really hard to find someone who specialized in twin pregnancies. Um, the difference between doctors and midwives is just like I feel like midwives are really holistic based, but my doctor didn't know anything about what I should be eating during my pregnancy. Just he's he just said, just eat a healthy diet, you know, lots of fruit, vegetables.

Kayla 35:45

Healthy, quote unquote.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Yes, healthy.

unknown 35:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

And I'm like, okay, that's really that's super helpful.

Kayla 35:52

Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Yeah, yeah. So he referred me to a dietitian um at our clinic, and um, she was good, but she didn't know like specifically what you should eat for twins, and you have to eat way more calories, like it's so many calories that you have to eat. I was trying to eat close to 3,000 calories a day, and so I sought out on my own personal time um a dietitian who specialized in twins, and she actually had given birth to twins herself. So she supported me throughout my pregnancy.

unknown 36:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

And I I did a lot of research. Like, I did research, I bought all the twin pregnancy books. Um, and something that I found was like it's really important that you you eat a specific way if you can, um, just to help give, you know, your babies all the nutrients that they need, of course, and support you because it's a high demand on the mom's body as well. And there were some studies that had shown like eating specifically, like specifically a high protein diet helps you carry your twins longer. Um, there was a clinic in New York that specializes in twin pregnancies, and they were just saying this is like some of the protocol that we've done. And I'm just like, okay, you know, well, only God can get me there. So I'm gonna eat as healthy as I can. I'm gonna try to follow this protocol of eating a certain amount of protein per day. I was having to eat like over 100 grams of protein a day. So I was drinking these protein drinks, trying to get in enough calcium. Um, I was taking a special prenatal um that had a higher amount of like nutrients and just trying to take like double the omegas. Like it was just a lot. And so I'm just glad that I didn't work during that time because it allowed me to focus solely on growing these babies. Um that's that's exactly what I did. I tried to get as much sleep as I could and just really focused on like cooking a lot of my meals and just to go a little bit ahead, I made it to 37 and four days. So I made it 37 weeks and four days. And for twin pregnancies, once you hit 36 and a half, I believe they consider it full term, or is it 37? I'm not sure which one it is, but I was considered full term for twins, and so that was my goal. I was hoping to make it to like 39 or 40, but I was so massive towards the end that it like my body was like, I don't think we can handle this anymore. We're maxed out. Yeah, we're maxed out, like everything was hurting, it was hard to move, and it was such a crazy mind game because I was like, you know, God, please help me get to the end. But at the same time, I'm like, I don't know how much longer my back can handle this because my joints are hurting so badly. Yeah, and I can't even be active with like my three-year-old at this point towards the end. But yeah, so with the original OB, I was seeing my original OB, and I was also going to Long Beach and seeing this special doctor that specialized in breech babies. So I was seeing two doctors. I was seeing an MFM and I was seeing an OB as well.

Kayla 38:51

But you were gonna deliver with an MFM in Long Beach.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Yeah, so they were both, they were both actually MFMs. So I was gonna deliver with the, yes, you're right, the MFM in Long Beach. Yeah.

Kayla 39:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Yeah, and so my original doctor um at the clinic that I was seeing, like closer to where I live, um, he was like pressuring me to take aspirin. And I was like, yeah, I don't think I want to do that because I've never done that with any of my prior pregnancies. And so I really don't want to, I don't want to take aspirin because I don't have any history of high blood pressure. Like it doesn't really make sense for me to just start taking it. Um and he was like, Yeah, you know, with twin pregnancies, you have a higher risk of pre-eclampsia, and that can put you into early labor. And we don't want that to happen. So, like, I highly suggest you, you know, just um take aspirin. So I refuse to take the aspirin. I just did some other like naturopathic um herbal stuff. And I didn't develop preeclampsia during my entire pregnancy, which was great. Of course, I did all the other tests, like the diabetes test. I didn't have diet, I really didn't have any health conditions during my pregnancy, and everybody told me otherwise. Um, so that was just another thing I was just grateful to God for to not have any complications besides that bleeding that was happening.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Um, but once I got past those 20 weeks, I didn't have any health issues throughout my whole pregnancy. The funny thing was, um, before he like he referred me to this specialized doctor in Long Beach. Um, but I had a friend who was pregnant with twins and had a vaginal birth, and she referred me to her doctor. So he referred me to his like colleague in Long Beach, but I saw this second OB. Um, and she was also in Long Beach. She was a female provider. And I was like, let me just see how it's gonna go with her because I really wanted a lady to deliver my babies. I didn't want to, I don't know. I just had a preference because I had only given birth with women. Women, yeah. So I was just like, they know the body better. Let me just go with a female who's actually has children herself. Um, and so she was not open to the fact that I didn't want an ultrasound. And since twin pregnancies are already considered high risk, um, she's like, oh no, you have to do the anatomy ultrasound or you'll you're not gonna be able to deliver here with me. And I was like, okay, well, you know, let me just do this ultrasound and get it done. Um and so everything was normal with the ultrasound, but then I still kind of felt like the vibe was off after at that point. Um, I felt like she just wanted a little bit more control, and I wasn't used to that because I had only given birth with midwives up until this point. Um, so I switched doctors again with her, and I went ahead and went to this other doctor in Long Beach.

Kayla 41:41

So you only saw that female one like once or twice, and then you were set on the other guy. Yeah. The double breach twin MFM who was about to retire. Okay. Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Yeah, about to retire. Yes. So at this point, I was in my third trimester switching providers because I really thought it was gonna work with her. Um, so I was in my third trimester and I was like, man, I am like seven weeks, eight weeks out from delivery, and I'm changing doctors again. And during this time, I was still looking for, I was trying to see if there was a midwife that was like that would partner with the doctor that wouldn't charge too much. Like I was just looking all over the place. It was just a lot. And I started looking at in other states too. And then at some point, I was like, this is just not gonna work out. Let me just go with a doctor here in California and just see this person in Long Beach, this male OB. And so I saw him. Um, he was really nice, seemed like a really kind and sweet guy. The thing was that the obstetric model of care is still so different than the midwifery model. And so I couldn't wrap my mind around how much shorter the visits were. Like all my visits were about 10 minutes, and I'm used to having hour-long visits with my midwives, and I'm used to them asking, How are you sleeping? How are you eating? How's your stress levels? Um, and my doctors never asked any of that. Like during my whole nine months of pregnancy, they never asked, like, how's your diet? Are you sleeping well? How's your stress levels? So I had to kind of become almost like my own provider, which was really strange.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

And just do a lot of reading. And it just, it really mentally was just it was a lot for me because I just wasn't used to it. And that was really hard. And it was kind of isolating because I just didn't know that many other twin moms besides this one person that had given birth with twin uh with twins. And so um, I kind of just went into a state of just like focusing on myself, my pregnancy, not really going out too much unless I had to, um, just because it was starting to get so hard to walk around towards the end.

Kayla 43:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Um, and this doctor in Long Beach, um, he he wanted me to do like a TDAP vaccine while I was pregnant. And I just Don't do I'm like, I don't do very many ultrasounds, I don't do any vaccines while I'm pregnant, I don't take medications unless I have to. Um, I just try to do everything like really holistic. Um, and I feel like less is more. Um, so when I told him I didn't want to do the TDAP vaccine during my third trimester, he kind of was like, uh, this is, you know, she's giving me pushback. And I ask a lot of questions. Like, because I'm a nurse, I ask so many questions during my appointments. Um, just because I want to build that relationship with my provider and like they're gonna be delivering my baby. Like, I want to be able to trust them. Um, and I had mentioned during my my second or third visit with him. I'm like, you know, if both babies turn breach, even if one baby turns breach, I would prefer not to like have a medicated birth. All of my births have been natural at this point. And he was like, Oh, I just don't think that's gonna work. Um, he's like, I don't see how you can withstand the pain from giving birth naturally.

Kayla 44:55

You're like, I've done it twice before. Thank you very much. And so have billions upon billions of women since the beginning of time.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

Exactly. Yeah, and like birth is not an emergency unless it's an emergency, unless something really happens. Like, but I can do this. Like, I know my body, I've never been pregnant with twins before, but like I trust in my body and I trust that God's gonna like carry me through. So I basically didn't have a deep relationship with any of my well, no, my first OB, I had a good relationship with him. To this day, I still see him even postpartum. But um, all the ones that followed afterwards, I just was never able to connect with them really like I wanted to. And so it started to become really scary for me the closer I came to giving birth to my twins. Because I was like, I really don't trust any of my providers. Um and I don't know if they feel comfortable with me because I want to have a natural birth um that's unmedicated. And he's like, I don't think you can withstand um, you know, the pain that's gonna come with a breach extraction. Because if the second baby is breached, I'm gonna have to reach up inside and grab them feet first. And like that's gonna be really, really painful if I have to do that. I don't think you're gonna be able to handle it. And I was like, gosh, that does sound painful. I was so torn though.

Kayla 46:16

But also, I'm like, why can't we just let the baby come when the baby's ready instead of going up and pulling them out?

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Like what right? Why can't we just yeah, why can't we just let them come out on their own? And so that was a question that I was asking too. I was like, you know, I started asking my friend because she was like, Oh, you know, after you give birth to your first baby, like I've seen women who go 10 hours before they deliver the second baby, you know, or five hours in between. You just don't know how long it's gonna take for that second baby to come. And like, unless something's really truly wrong, there's no reason to rush to get them out, yeah. Right, yeah. And so I was kind of of the mindset where, like, yeah, I really do want to um try to push them out instead of have them extracted out, or have you use like vacuum or forceps or anything like that, because that's gonna, you know, make the experience more painful potentially. And so I was like, Well, you know, I was doing all the things I was seeing a chiropractor at this point during the third trimester. The both babies were um baby A was head down and baby B was transverse. And so I was like, Well, there's still time for baby B to like move, like once her sister comes out, she can she can either have more space, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm like, she'll have more space to move. So let's just like wait and see. And so this doctor told me ahead of time in my third trimester. He's like, I'm not gonna be here like a few weeks before your birth, a couple of weeks before. Um, but I'll be back. And I'm like, okay, you know, I hope that he's back in time. And he's like, just so you know, I'm the only one, I'm the only provider that can deliver both of your babies um breach. Like no one else in this practice can deliver the babies if they're both breach. If one is breach, then it's fine. Like if baby A is head down, but baby B is breach, it's okay. But if baby A is breached, transverse, what have you, and I'm not here, they don't feel comfortable enough. Um, you might have a C section. And I'm like, oh gosh, now I have to worry about that. And so um I went into labor, I went into labor early, and he was on vacation. So I went into labor on August, no, July 28th. And something that I had really prayed throughout my whole pregnancy was like, you know, God, I want a natural birth, I don't want to have a medicated birth, and I don't want a c-section, and I want to have a fast labor. Those are the three things. I want a fast labor, I don't want a c-section, and I don't want any medication during my birth. And so I had a dola, like I could not find a dola for the life of me that was reliable for whatever reason during my pregnancy. And like during my whole pregnancy, I was just really trying to like I felt such a sense of a loss of control, um, just because I was delivering with the doctor instead of a midwife. And I just felt like, you know, this is I don't know how this is gonna go. And so I'm just gonna like basically give it all to God. So that's pretty much what I did. I was like, God, you know, I hope that everything works out. I'm just gonna let this go and just let you take control. And that's pretty much what happened. Like everything that could, I don't want to say it could have gone wrong, but like the doctor wasn't there the day I went into labor and my doula missed my birth. She was on the way, but like, like she just couldn't make it in the end.

Kayla 49:40

Man, what's up with the doula's out there in LA? That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

Right. Yeah. Um, so my labor was about seven hours, and that's exactly the number that I prayed for. I was like, I want to have a seven-hour labor. I want to go into labor when I'm not super tired, um, so that it's not so hard to push. So basically, I went into labor on July 28th, 5 a.m. And by 12 o'clock, I had already delivered both babies. So it was a it was fast, yeah. Yeah, it was really fast. And it was also the most pain-free birth out of all my births, which was amazing. Like once I had the contractions, it was super painful. But when it came to pushing, like it was just easy for some reason. It was easy, it was quick. I pushed the first baby out in a couple of minutes. So I'll just kind of go through the birth story. So I went into labor around 5 a.m., went to the hospital. My husband drove me there.

Kayla 50:33

And what was that like having to drive to the hospital after having had a home birth?

SPEAKER_02 50:38

It really was weird. It just felt like I should be at home. I felt like, what am I doing?

Kayla 50:44

Where am I going? Why am I leaving my house?

SPEAKER_02 50:46

Right. And Long Beach was like 45 minutes away from where I'm at. And so it was a long drive. Um, I got there, they admitted me. The first thing that happened is they were like, Oh, your doctor's not here. And I said, Oh my gosh, my doctor's not here, my Dola can't be here. And this is a time where I really need someone to advocate for me more than anything. Yeah. So, of course, my husband was there. Um, but there was like a whole team of people rushing in. They have more people that come to your room when you're delivering twins than with one baby. Um, so they had respiratory, they had just, it was just so many people. I don't even know who they were because I was already in pain. Um, but they put me in the delivery room. This doctor comes in, this female doctor that I've never met, and she's like, Oh, your doctor's out. I'm gonna be delivering your baby. And she's like, You have to go to the OR because like twins, all twins are delivered in the operating room, no matter what, just in case something happens. They want to be able to quickly do a C-section. But from what I've heard and what I know, the OR, the beds are super small in the operating room and really tight and uncomfortable, and you can't really move. And I was like, I don't want an O IV, I don't want an IV, I don't want any fluids. And they're like, Well, can we at least just put in like a hip block on your hand? So they did that. And I was like, but don't give me any extra fluids. And she was like, Okay, well, it's time to roll you to the OR now. Like, that's where you're gonna be delivering. And I said, No, I'm not, and she was so shocked because she was no one's probably ever told her no, so yeah, right. And I was like, No, I'm delivering in this room, in this bed, and she was like, Okay, let's do an ultrasound. So she they did an ultrasound this whole time baby A was down, head down. I don't know what happened. Baby was transverse. She flipped breach, and so did the other baby, and she was like, Well, both baby are both babies are feet feet first now, and she's like, I, you know, honestly, she's like, We just have to do a C-section, and I was like, A C section? I was like, What? And she's like, Yeah, because your provider isn't here, and like I've never delivered twins, you know, uh, with both of them being breached. And I was like, but aren't you like, haven't you like shadowed him or like right?

Kayla 53:06

Like, haven't you like been around a little bit? Like, right, there's a first time for everything, you should say.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

Exactly. Yeah, I'm like, there's a first time for everything. I was like, and she's like, you know, I just recommend a C section. I was already in pain. I was considering getting the epidural, but then I was like transitioning to, so I just said, Oh my gosh, I'm like, there's so many things going on. I'm in pain. You're telling me I need to get a C section, my dual is not here. And I was like, She left the room, so she left and went to so she went somewhere for like a few a couple of minutes. So when she turned her back, I had that sensation where I'm like, I can't not push anymore. Like, I can't like I'm there, yeah. I'm here, like this is happening. And so I just started pushing, and the nurse was there, and like basically the nurse delivered the baby because she was there. So I pushed twice, and then she just baby A flew out.

Kayla 53:59

Like, so did she come out feet first or butt first? Feet first, feet first. Look at her go. And so, what did the doctor say?

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Like, the doctor came, she came back in, she came rushing, and I guess someone went to tell her. She came rushing, she's like, Oh my gosh, she's like, I gotta do her, I gotta like extract the other baby. She's like, I gotta come and pull them out before your cervix closes. And I'm like, What? Before my cervix closes, and so here's the thing that happened with the first baby. She was breathing, but she was a little discolored and she needed like a little bit of help. And so um, they took her over to the warmer and the respiratory team came in and they started giving her oxygen. Um, and then she was fine after a couple of minutes. They brought her back to my chest because I was like, I really want to hold her. Like, I don't want her to be, you know, on the side. I want to hold her while I deliver my second one. And in my mind, I was like, okay, the first baby came out and she needed oxygen. I don't know what's gonna happen the second time around if I wait like two, three, four hours and try to push out the second one who's also breach. And so I just kind of made an executive decision to like, let's just go ahead with this breach extraction, even though that's not really what the plan was. But the plan also wasn't for them to be both breach.

Kayla 55:13

So did you feel the urge to push it all with the second baby, or was there no urge there?

SPEAKER_02 55:19

There was no urge, yeah. Like I didn't feel any sensation that I needed to bear down.

Kayla 55:25

So, did she grab with her hands? Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

So after that first baby was delivered, she like didn't even give me a couple of minutes. She was like, Oh, I gotta come and like you know, deliver the second baby. And I was just thinking, gosh, I don't know if I want to do this or if I want to give them time to move. Um, but in my mind, I was like, this first one needed oxygen, and I don't know what's gonna happen the second time around. I probably could have waited and just been like, let's just see, like, is it gonna, is it gonna be okay with the second baby? But um, I chose to go ahead with the breach extraction. So she's like, I need to go ahead and reach up before your service closes. Not true. And so she would, I just said, I gave her consent. I said, okay. And so she reached up and I said before she did it, I was bracing myself because I'm like, this is gonna hurt so bad, and there's no time for paying medication. So, like, let's just get through this. But like, she literally reached up and I didn't feel anything, I didn't feel her hand moving around, I didn't feel her pulling them out, like it was just like a supernatural experience, and I think God was really protecting me because I told him I wanted a natural birth and I didn't want medication, and I was like, this is gonna hurt, but it did not hurt. Honestly, I didn't feel anything but pressure. I felt a ton of pressure. It's a weird way to explain it because it was pressure, but it wasn't pain.

Kayla 56:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

Um, so it's just a lot of pressure of her pulling the baby out. That took like five minutes, and then the second baby was delivered, and that was it. And we were done by like 12 o'clock. And yeah, she was like, Wow, you did amazing! Like, that was so good. I've never seen that, you know. Congratulating me. And I was just like, Yeah, only God can do it, because you know, this was really tough.

Kayla 57:10

Tell her to add it to her resume.

SPEAKER_02 57:12

That's what I did.

Kayla 57:13

Double breach birth, you've done it badging in the delivery room, not even in the OR.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Right, yeah. And I told her, I was like, so you can do it too, like both of us, you know, and she was like, Yeah. So everything worked out. Um, after that, I just I got Willed to postpartum and um tried to latch both babies. That was kind of tough. We were out of the hospital within a couple days, and that was another thing I prayed for was that my babies would be full term. Um, I didn't want to do any NICU stays, and that that was like kind of like a concern of mine because you hear so many stories of twins being born early and being in the NICU for several weeks. So they were full, they were completely full term. I think their weight was five, five pounds 14 ounces for the first baby, and the second baby was six pounds six point two. So they were decent sizes for twins. Yeah, yeah, we were out within a couple days, and I was actually able to exclusively breastfeed them from the start. I thought I was gonna have to do formula, but we've been able to like exclusively breastfeed, and I've had a really good milk supply for both of them, so that's been like another blessing. Um, I would say though, my postpartum was incredibly hard.

Kayla 58:32

I'm like sitting here waiting to hear about postpartum because I'm like, well, you went from having one baby at a time to having two babies at a time. So how was that transition?

SPEAKER_02 58:41

Yeah, you know, I thought, like, because it wasn't gonna be a C-section that this is gonna be easy, like all my other recoveries, but my body felt like it had been run over by a truck, which was really strange. I never had that feeling with any of my other pregnancies. And so literally, I just was like, I was having trouble walking, my back, my hips, everything was hurting really, really bad. And I was like, this is this is really hard. My husband was there to help support me. He took like several weeks, months off of work. The babies are actually about to be four months in the next couple of weeks, so this is all still very new, fresh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He really helped me a ton. My mom came over like pretty much three to four days a week and helped.

Kayla 59:30

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

But this was in the summer, so my school, my son was out of school, and so I had four kids and two nor two newborns at home at the same time, and that made it incredibly hard. Um, the recovery was just really hard. I wasn't able to be like present with my six-year-old and three-year-old as much, but I try to include them with like everything we would do with the babies. I would tell them, oh, this is what we're doing, you know. Let's read them a story and like let's watch a movie together. And so I tried to do little things here and there with them. Um, but my body took such a long time to recover, and I was in so much pain. Did you but you didn't tear, right? I had like a barely, like a one-degree barely.

Kayla 1:00:13

Okay. Did she give you any stitches for that? No. Okay. She's like, oh, it'll heal on its own. Well, that was probably from the extraction, too. Like, yeah. Well, because I wonder if the postpartum was harder. One, because you had like 12 pounds of baby in there. Right. Compared to your other ones. And two, if the extraction and like not being able to go through like, you know, like the natural delivery process, but having her pulled out, if that had anything to do with like the the downstairs recovery portion.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:51

Yeah, probably so. Probably so. My doctor didn't talk about any of that. I never saw my doula after she missed the birth. She never came to visit you postpartum. No, she was just like kind of not interested. I think because she missed the birth.

Kayla 1:01:07

I don't I hope you didn't pay her. No. Okay. I'm like, that does not sound like a good doula at all. No, it was. Oh my goodness. I'm really sorry about that. As a doula myself, I'm like, I would be mortified. Well, I wouldn't let that happen.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:25

So I don't and she didn't send a backup. Like, usually there's like a backup. Right.

Kayla 1:01:31

I was gonna say, like, at least if she was in an emergency situation, the least she could do is send a backup doula. But man.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:39

Yeah, I think postpartum, I had spoken to like her manager um with the organization she was with, and the manager was like, Oh, she's like open to coming postpartum. But I'm like, I think the vibe that I'm feeling is that like this is not gonna work anymore.

Kayla 1:01:57

Did you meet with her prenatally?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:59

Yeah, we met a couple times, but it was just over like Zoom.

Kayla 1:02:04

Oh, it wasn't in person. No, yeah, weird, weird, yeah, very weird, very weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

Yeah, and I found her late. Like I found her during my third trimester because I had been looking for dulas just like I had been looking for doctors my entire pregnancy. Yeah, and it was just another way of God telling me like his theme throughout my pregnancy was like, don't rely on anyone but me. But I kept trying to force and push and get the right provider and get the right dula and get have everything lined up and perfect, like in my first and second pregnancies. But it was, he was just like, You just need me. Like, even during the birth, it was like both babies were breached, and he's like it's like just reminder that I just need God. Even the doctor didn't feel like she had the skill set to deliver them.

Kayla 1:02:46

But God knew she did. Well, God knew that you did it, really. I mean, wow. So now that you're three and a half months postpartum, has life settled any, or is it still kind of foggy and chaotic?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

It's it's very chaotic with four. Um, because going from two to four is such a big jump. Yeah, you doubled it. Yeah, and so I was like, wow, I actually have four kids. Like, this is crazy. Like my 15-year-old self would have never imagined it.

Kayla 1:03:23

Well, I'm thinking about it. I'm like, you went from one to two, you doubled it. Then you went from two to four, you doubled it. So you've careful getting pregnant, you might get quads. That would be craziness.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

That would be so crazy. And after you have twins, like because it's like one in like two hundred and something chance. And so after you have your first set, it's like goes from one in it goes from one to ten now.

Kayla 1:03:48

And so like a one in ten chance.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:51

Yeah. Wow. And I actually know someone, I actually know someone who has two sets of twins.

Kayla 1:03:56

Yeah, my chiropractor has two sets of twins as well. Oh my gosh. Wow, I don't know how she does it. I don't know how she does it either. They're older now. I mean, they're like, you know, like elementary school age, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

So right now we we are still in the thick of it because I'm still exclusively breastfeeding them. Um and um, yeah, but I'm just grateful to have them here. So I'm just because it it could have been such a different story. And so it's been a blessing to have them here, and um, I made it to the other side, and so I just wanted to encourage other twin moms who have experienced maybe something different and been told that like they only have one option of birth, which is to have a C-section, depending on your circumstances. You know, you have other options. So for me, I was able to um deliver both of mine vaginally unmedicated. They were born full term, there was no Nikki's day, and we've been exclusively on breast milk without formula because that's a whole nother story of like having to give formula to to twins just because there's two, and there's definitely a chance, a good possibility that you can produce milk for both babies.

Kayla 1:05:14

Well, thank you for sharing, thank you for encouraging, thank you for your story. I really appreciate it, and it is it is really good for other moms to hear out there that you can do a natural, unmedicated, vaginal twin birth, even if they're both breach. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

Yeah, um, my provider was telling me that what you did is so unheard of. Like two breach babies. And I said, I want it to become the norm.

Kayla 1:05:45

Yeah, like let this be a normal thing. Yeah, let the C section be the exception.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

Yeah, and so I couldn't have gotten through without without God, for sure. And I promised him that I would tell my story once I got to the other side. So yeah.

Kayla 1:06:01

Well, you came through on that promise, and that's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:08

Yeah, thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Kayla 1:06:12

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. You can reach me at Surrendered Birth Services on Instagram or email me at contact at Surrendered Birth Services.com. Be sure not to miss an episode by hitting the follow button. Also, we'd love for you to leave a written review of the show so that more people's births and lives can be changed by the love of Jesus and the empowerment of accurate birth education. If you really enjoyed this episode in particular, please take a screenshot of it and post it to your Instagram story tagging Surrendered Birth Services. If you would like to be a guest on the Surrendered Birth Stories podcast, please click the link in the episode show notes to fill out your interest form. Also, if you're interested in taking my childbirth classes, birth consultations, or having me as your birth doula, please click on the link in the show notes to take you to my website for online and in-person options. Just as a reminder, this show is not giving medical advice. So please continue to see your personal care provider as needs arise. We hope you have a great week. And remember, learn all that you can, make the best plans, and then leave it in God's hands. Anyways, we uh Nope, totally lost my train of thought just now. Sorry about that, Chris. Because you're gonna have to edit this part out. My bad. Let me get my thoughts together.